Pacifica Spends KPFA Listeners' Dollars on Union-Busting, Polluter-Defending Lawfirm

"Paid officials of the CWA (i.e. not the union stewards, but the professional paid staff of CWA) have been asking to meet with Pacifica. A totally reasonable request. Pacifica management needs to have a competent professional advisor present when it meets with the professional staff of CWA. That is all that is happening here, and it really does not need to push us out of shape."

Please visit http://www.supportKPFA.org for more info on what's happening at KPFA.

Dear Friends of KPFA and Pacifica,

I'd like to know: Why are the Communications Workers of America (KPFA's staff union) and many of the mainstream "left" in the Bay Area trying to take down KPFA and Pacifica Radio?

It is blindingly obvious to anyone who reviews Pacifica's financial reports that KPFA and Pacifica will be in bankruptcy court soon if KPFA's expenses are not brought into line with its income. The union knows this. The outcome of a Pacifica bankruptcy could very likely be sale of broadcast licenses to commercial stations and/or Christian radio.

So, why are they recklessly fighting absolutely necessary layoffs?

Pacifica is the ONLY radio network in the country distributing progressive radio programs to over 100 community and college radio stations across the country. See the Pacifica Affiliate Station Map here: http://www.pacificanetwork.org/radio/component/option,com_google_maps/Itemid,102/

Do CWA and the Bay Area's mainstream left-liberals want to take that down? Air America went bankrupt, in case we forget. These are precarious times. Or do we in the Bay Area really not care whether the rest of the country can hear alternative progressive news, information and analysis programs?

KPFA is precious to our community. Do they want to kill it in order to temporarily "save" a couple of program hosts for a few months until the bankruptcy court takes over?

Yes, I miss The Morning Show. But, since the union staff has refused to continue the program without Brian and Aimee, maybe some of the unpaid staff will be willing to do it. In the meantime, I like the programs I'm hearing from KPFK in LA. They're doing a good job covering issues we all care about, too.

So what's going on here? Where are the responsible voices out there to say, "Yes, layoffs are necessary. Some program(s) will have to be cut and we'll all just have to work harder to raise money for KPFA so that the station and Pacifica can get back on their feet again."

I'm shocked, really, at the recklessness of it all -- and I'm beginning to wonder why are CWA and the mainstream "left" drinking this cool-aid?

Puzzled,

Carol Spooner
KPFA Local Board Member, April 2000-April 2005
Pacifica National Board Member, Jan 2001-Jan 2005
Founder & Lead Plaintiff, "Committee to Remove the Pacifica Board" and lead plaintiff in "the listeners lawsuit", 1999-2001

Folger Levin and Kahn split up in 2009 and the "big business" part went to another firm.

Current client list includes:

# The Fine Arts Museums
# (de Young Museum and Legion of Honor)
# Jewish Community Center of
# San Francisco
# Northern California Public Broadcasting Inc. (KQED)

Shall we call a boycott on the Legion of Honor too? How about a picket for next Saturday?

Pacifica has the right to defend itself. It is not the aggressor here. The union has filed a bunch of bogus complaints. No one is attacking the union's right to exist. The union is attacking the Foundation's right to maintain financial viability.

Some preliminary end of the fiscal year numbers:

KPFA
2010 Revenue Total $3,5 Million
2010 Expenses Total $4.55 Million
2010 Salaries and Benefits $2.2 Million

By comparison ...

KPFK (Pacifica's LA Station)
2010 Revenue Total $3.3 Million
2010 Expenses Total $3.2 Million
2010 Salaries and Benefits $1.5 Million

Head to Head:
KPFA had $200,000 more in Revenue
KPFA spent $700,000 more on Salaries and Benefit Expenses

KPFA lost nine positions totaling about $375,000, with a net savings of about $325,000 after severance pay and the notice period. All but 2 of the departures were voluntary.

Something was badly out of whack at KPFA.

Concerned Listener's-"Save KPFA's" Demagogic Playing of the "Union Card" puts their small group power before Pacifica's survival just like their Justice and Unity's allies use of the "Race Card" almost destroyed WBAI and Pacifica. See second article on "Pacifica Financial Crisis-Who is Responsible."

Pacifica is not Pac Bell or At&T but a non-profit foundation with a progressive Mission that helps educate people about the problems of our corporate dominated society. Perhaps the CWA leadership needs to remeber this. How would it benefit the labor movement to destroy Pacifica?

The Clers appear to be acting like a selfish 5 year old child that would destroy a toy before it would share it with his brothers and sisters. CL, KPFAForward, and their entrenched staff folks have controlled KPFA for the last several years and have brought us to the brink of bankruptcy by refusing to be financially responsibile. Allied with their JUC friends controlling the PNB up until 2009 they did the same at WBAI and almost took Pacifica to bankruptcy then.


Concerned Listener's-"Save KPFA's" Demagogic Playing of the "Union Card" is Fully Exposed! Their claims that their opponents had a hit list of staff to lay off evaporated into the lie that it always was. Their relentless dishonest attacks of union busting and their made out of "whole cloth" attack that their opponents want an "all volunteer" staff was exposed by a roll call vote at the November LSB meeting.

During the discussion on the new budget Shahram Aghamir moved to amend the intro language for the budget Resolution to include that it would be implemented according to the union contract. This would mean that layoffs would be done by seniority. Every CL/"Save KPFA" person in attendance voted that amendment down? Why would they be against that "pro union" sentiment being added to the budget resolution that included the need for some staff reductions?

They were trying to protect the jobs of some of their "insider" group. Some would lose their jobs if seniority is followed. So much for union solidarity!

Is this new? No, we have seen it over and over. In the late 1990s this same political strain pushed for a change from a progressive union, UE, to CWA and dumped all the unpaid staff from the union roles. There have been many attacks on union members by CL management allies and the union has consistently done nothing. Ask anyone of the FlashPoints folks how much union support they get. The latest was the pay reduction forced on Nora Barrows Friedman outside of union seniority.

Early on a careful review of Brian Edward-Tiekert's infamous 2005 e-mail meeting agenda to the insiders' strategy group made it quite clear that their group was supreme to the union. What makes this clear? They are discussing the possibility of going on strike and how to deal with union grievances. The recipients of this e-mail, the members of their secret strategy group, included management employee Lemlem Rigio who they later pushed up to GM in their continuing quest for undemocratic power. As a former member of several unions I can say that we never did plan strategy on such issues with members of management. In addition to management there were other people in that group that were not union members, who just happened to be Concerned Listeners leadership: Sherry Gendelman and Bonnie Simmons.
_______________________


The e-mail below was found at the station in September 2005. It has been acknowledged as real by the author. I have contacted in person or by e-mail everyone but one on that strategy group to ask them if they were just recipients of an e-mail that discussed “dismantling the LSB” and other interesting topics or were they active participants and none of them have denied active involvement.

This e-mail was sent shortly after the LSB voted down a staff motion to fire the GM for sexual harassment. It was voted down 15-5. Four of the five votes for it were in this e-mail group. There was NO evidence of sexual harassment found after two separate investigations. It was an attempt to fire an African-American GM who wouldn't toe their line. Their pushing for this unjust firing caused them to lose the majority on the LSB, thus their need for a strategic retreat. This e-mail gives one a view of what these folks really believe in! Sort of like a Pentagon Paper. Richard Phelps, former Chair KPFA LSB.


From:"Brian Edwards-Tiekert"
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by gmail.com. Learn more
To:"Lemlem Tekle" , "Bonnie Simmons" ,
LisaRothman [at] kpfa.org
CC:"Sasha Lilley" , "Lemlem Tekle" ,
mawu_mama37 [at] yahoo.com, "Amelia Gonzalez-Garcia" , Rain
Geesler" , "Sherry Gendelman" , "Gary
Niederhoff"
Subject:Re: budget
Date:Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:58:28 -0700

I'm up for coffee Saturday—Lisa and I can still meet Tuesday afternoon. Also, we need a general strategy session. How about Tuesday night?

Issues include:

How should we be handling the expiration of the union contract—is a strike in order, or is it a really terrible idea?

What's the best way to deal with these layoffs? (needed way back then and not done)

Coming up with, and presenting, an alternative budget.

Getting the Roy issue to the national board.

Propping up staff morale.

Strategic retreat on the LSB—how do we make our enemies own the problems that are to come? Alternatively, should we be recalling LSB members/dismantling the LSB?

Dealing with the grievances underway.

Building community support—formation of a labor-community coalition.



Brian Edwards-Tiekert
Staff Representative, Local Station Board
KPFA 94.1FM
1929 Martin Luther King Jr. Way
Berkeley CA 94704


And don't forget BET's demonstration of his Karl Rove mentality at work> "how do we make our enemies own the problems that are to come?"

That philosophy is the basis for all the lies and distortions of truth that we see continuously coming from CL and their allies. Now about the budget and layoffs.

And when they rage on about disrespect for the staff don't forget their agenda item of "Propping up staff morale." This demonstrates such a callous disregard for the staff, their pawns in their continuing drive for absolute power and control of the station.
_________


THE PACIFICA FINANCIAL CRISIS! WHO IS RESPONSIBLE? (May 2009)


Former WBAI management did not pay their rent for four months and received a Three Day Notice to pay or be subject to eviction in March of 2009. This was not promptly communicated to the financial or executive management of Pacifica. WBAI has been losing hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for several years and currently owes Pacifica over $1,100,000.00 in back central services contributions. Each station contributes 20% of its listener-generated revenue to run the Foundation. When one station isn’t making its contribution the results are that the Foundation is short on money or the other stations have to pay more. This several year problem at WBAI and the current economic downturn has caused serious financial problems for Pacifica. The current Pacifica National Board (PNB), elected in January, gives hope for the survival of Pacifica.

Why didn’t Pacifica correct this problem early on? There was collusion among some PNB members from various stations to allow WBAI to do what they wanted to do with no oversight or accountability to the Bylaws or the listener/subscribers. The major players in this collusion were from KPFA, WBAI and WPFW, with a vote or two from KPFK and KPFT and the affiliate Reps on the PNB of past years.

The Local Station Board (LSB) majorities at KPFA and WBAI generally elected three PNB members that supported this collusion and WPFW, until recently, often sent four. There are 22 members of the PNB, four from each station and two Affiliate Representatives. An LSB majority can elect three of the four PNB members for their station. With ten votes from KPFA, WBAI and WPFW it only takes three votes from the ten from the other two stations and affiliate reps to have a majority to control the PNB and continue this collusion. Until this last January the Colluders had the majority for several years.

Who are the Colluders and why did they do this? Local tyrannical majorities wanted to run their stations without regard to the Bylaws and with no oversight from the Foundation. At KPFA the “KPFAForward” (2004) and “Concerned Listener” (CL) (2006 & 2007) slates represented the same management/staff faction and generally endorsed majorities that sent three PNB members who consistently voted to protect and continue the collusion. This group included William Walker, Sarv Randhawa, Rosalinda Palacios, Mary Berg, Sherry Gendelman, Bonnie Simmons and Andrea Turner. They consistently vote/voted with the Justice & Unity majority from WBAI and the WPFW majority. They generally sit together at the PNB meetings and are regularly seen privately caucusing together at lunch and before and after meetings, sometimes with GM Lemlem Rijio when in Berkeley.

Prior to this year’s PNB, Bob Lederer was the Justice & Unity leader on the PNB. I have attended many PNB meetings and listened to most of the others on line. During those meetings if KPFA Colluder PNB members were not sure how to vote they often passed if Bob Lederer hadn’t voted or passed. When he voted they would follow. If you don’t believe me go to the archives of the meetings and listen.

Whenever there was a move to correct the problems at WBAI the KPFA Colluders always voted with the others to protect the LSB majority at WBAI. Patty Heffley, the minority PNB Rep from WBAI, made a motion to have the PNB order the WBAI LSB to do a performance review of the general manager (GM) and the program director. The Bylaws require these to be done annually. At WBAI they had never been done, despite complaints from the LSB minority. The PNB Colluder majority refused to order the WBAI LSB to follow the Bylaws. Many others complained about WBAI being out of control and losing money and the Colluder PNB majority did NOTHING as the red ink continued to flow.

At KPFA the CL slate and the Rijio/Lilley management work together to make sure they maintain a majority on the LSB to elect three PNB members from their group. One of their methods was to have no election information on the air when the ballots went out and at the same time the CL sent a slate mailer. After the first time this happened I wrote a motion on the PNB Election Committee requiring election information to be on the air during the election. It passed out of the election committee by a 10-2 vote. The Colluder majority on the PNB voted it down. When KPFA finally ran some candidate information they ran 22 candidate statements in a row, always with Sherry Gendelman first! At the April 2009 PNB meeting in Berkeley the new non-Colluder PNB majority passed a motion requiring broad election coverage on the air. Bonnie Simmons, CL endorser, made a motion to rescind the required election coverage. It didn’t pass. And we will have a more inclusive election this year, no thanks to CL and its allies.

The Colluder majority was consistently against transparency. The Bylaws and California law allow Directors the “absolute right” to inspect all documents and facilities at any reasonable time. For years the Colluders fought to stop or hinder Directors’ Inspections. When inspections were finally allowed due to potential lawsuits it was discovered that $65,000 worth of equipment had been sent to a WBAI former GM’s father’s house and was not accounted for. As recently as 2008 a Director was ordered out of WBAI in the middle of a lawful inspection without any justification. Who gave the order? Dan Siegel, interim Executive Director, hired by the Colluder majority and a recent CL candidate.

So when you hear Brian Edwards-Tiekert, Sherry Gendelman, Bonnie Simmons, Conn or Matthew Hallinan, Warren Mar or any of the CL allies complain about KPFA money going to shore up WBAI, they and their allies are responsible for this crisis for trading fiscal responsibility for their power to ignore the Bylaws, transparency and accountability.

KPFA/Pacifica is a Commons that belongs to all of us, and it must be protected and preserved above the CL/Rijio group’s desire for unrestrained and unaccountable power.

Richard Phelps, former Chair, KPFA LSB (Labor donated.)



P.S. This is the same brand of deceptive power before principle politics that we see at KPFA over the budget.


Richard Phelps, former AM & FM radio announcer
Attorney/Mediator

"found that 'ADHD, dissociation, and depression were associated with enhanced tendencies toward paranormal and cryptozoological beliefs, although participants who believed in each of the phenomena differed from one another in predictable and psychologically distinguishable ways.'"

Richard, that wouldn't be the same email you've posted on her four times now, would it? And a bit of cut and paste with a post you've used three times now? That's part of why I don't take the time to refute your arguments individually, they lack substance and veracity without a predisposition to the cause you are advocating.

And in the Woman's Magazine interview with Mary Ratcliff, she alluded to the constant use of the Mission statement as a sign of weakness.

Richard Phelps, former Chair KPFA LSB writes:

"See second article on "Pacifica Financial Crisis-Who is Responsible."

PLEASE STOP SPAMMING THIS ARTICLE OF YOURS. YOUR ENTIRE POST/COMMENT WILL BE HIDDEN NEXT TIME IF YOU REPOST THE ARTICLE AGAIN.
WE'VE SEEN THE EMAIL, TOO.

SF Bay Area Indymedia Editorial Policy
by SF Bay Area IMC Web Collective ( sfbay-web [at] lists.indymedia.org )
Sunday Aug 4th, 2002 2:22 AM

Hiding

SF Bay Area IMC is founded on the principle of open publishing. Reality dictates that the editorial collective will at times decide to hide posts and comments. This is not a decision that is taken lightly, however, and the editorial collective does its best refrain from hiding. Our vision for the function of the newswire, and the general framework in which all decisions to hide will be made, are as follows:

* The newswire is intended to be a community media resource, a space free from spam and abuse in general


RICHARD, YOU ARE SPAMMING (REPOSTING ALREADY PUBLISHED CONTENT) AND THEREFORE VIOLATING INDYBAY EDITORIAL GUIDELINES. PLEASE STOP IT.

YOU HAVE ALREADY POSTED THIS WAY TOO MANY TIMES!

Here it is on the Berkeley Daily Planet:
The Pacifica Financial Crisis: Who is Responsible?
http://www.berkeleydaily.org/issue/2009-05-14/article/32873?headline=The-Pacifica-Financial-Crisis-Who-is-Responsible

And posted to indybay over and over again. Next time drop a link instead. Welcome to the internet, jerk.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/09/17/18659062.php?show_comments=1#18659120

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/09/13/18658594.php?show_comments=1#18658636

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/09/24/18623018.php?show_comments=1#18623081

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/09/21/18622675.php?show_comments=1#18622895

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/09/29/18660209.php?show_comments=1#18660231

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/08/24/18656759.php?show_comments=1#18656817

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/02/10/18637411.php?show_comments=1#18637693

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/06/20/18602969.php#18603383

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/07/20/18609813.php?show_comments=1#18610388

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/07/21/18611895.php?show_comments=1#18612452

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/08/26/18656879.php?show_comments=1#18656882

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/08/11/18615315.php?show_comments=1#18616645

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/08/16/18656188.php?show_comments=1#18656230

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/11/04/18663093.php?show_comments=1#18663164

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/11/18/18664455.php?show_comments=1#18664522

I am not Richard . i do want to note that if Brian Edwards-Tiergert told the listeners it was a monsoon rain outside i would still be doubtful . i wanted to get that out first before i write that this hiring of these union busting assholes puts me and other Union guys who haven't drank the kool aid in a bad fucking position . Does the Management of Pacifica want to lose this dogfight ? If not fire these Financial district enemies of the working class and get some half progressive lawyers to back you . It makes it real hard for get your back when taking on David Bacon and his fan club .
Peace.

When I hand out these articles some people say they have read it already, I don't give them one. If you have read it then don't read it again. As the struggle at KPFA and Pacifica continues I would hope new people are using IndyBay. It is for the new folks that I re-publish important pieces of history so that they can understand the context of what is happening today and who is responsible for the problems. The history is extremely relevant to the current struggle.

As for Ukexica's comment, I am not concerned about what you think. You have not factually refuted anything I have posted, just attacked in various ways to detract people from the truth you and your CL allies want to hide from the people in your quest for power and control of KPFA/Pacifica.

Nadra Foster who got brutalize by the police in kpfa building on false claims that she was trepassing did not sue kpfa. Nora Barrow Friedman in spite of her seniority and great talent got half fired by the concerned listeners but did not sue kpfa. But B.E. teacup and amy allison champion of save kpfa immediately sue kpfa worsening a already precarious financial situation by unecessary legal costs. The multiples take over of the air waves during the election and after their sacking for personal gains justify their total removal of the radio station . And KPFA air wave should never be entrusted to them. I see this people as thugs, hypocrites, liars, self serving vermine and the sound of their voices make me sick ''''''''We are the people. We have the potential for power. We must not fool ourselves. We must not mislead ourselves. It takes more than good intentions. It takes commitment. It takes recognizing that at some point in our lives we are going to have to decide that we have a way of life that we follow, and we are going to have to live that way of life...That is the only solution there is for us.'''''''''''
said by john trudell in 1980

Pacifica had to hire an experienced labor attorney. No firm which represents labor will defend an employer. Therefore, they had to use this one.
To avoid these financial drains of court cases, listeners quitting, etc., there is another solution - KPFAworker crew, stop contesting these staff cuts. You can bring down the network protesting this needed financial remedy to a situation you (the CL et al) brought on by your financial irresponsibility. The other 4 Pacifica stations made the necessary cuts, and are spending less on salaries which the stations and networks can't afford. KPFK, with a much larger listening audiece, is down to 24 full time hours; why not KPFA?
If you are true progressives, why do you want to bring down a progressive network with 5 stations in large metropolitan areas plus over 100 affiliates?

If Pacifica loses its broadcast license, then what?

Correction: I should point out that what Pacifica hired was not labor attorneys, but attorneys familiar with labor law, from the corporate side, since they could not expect to find labor attorneys who would represent them, being management. Not the desirable choice, but they may not have had that choice.

All of Richard Phelps' articles are excellent and helpful to understanding the crisis at KPFA. Reptition is how we all learn and if you have learned the material, then obviously, you can skip it, as Richard says.

We must ask of the Indybay "volunteer," where is your outrage at the feature, front and center, on the Media page, of the reactionary Larry Bensky, one of the supporters of the Thug Hallinan Gang in this current KPFA crisis? Since you clearly need repeating, here are the reminders, all taken from Indybay:

1. His attacks to callers on air:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/09/25/18659813.php

2. Supporters of Pat Scott Gang and union busters American Consulting:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/09/21/18659436.php

3. More horrors of supporting Concerned Listeners gang:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/10/22/18626386.php
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/01/15/18472757.php
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/10/29/18324348.php

4. His opposition to Peace & Freedom and Green Parties:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/04/27/18495315.php

5. His use of name lists in violation of Pacifica election rules:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/11/21/18462672.php

6. His opposition to the 9/11 Truth Movement
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/11/10/18459899.php
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/09/15/18311830.php

7. His anti-labor outlook on labor programming:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/04/14/18154241.php

8. His contempt for free speech:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2004/11/13/17051361.php

9. His attack on William Blum's book exposing the CIA and a reminder that Bensky was editor of the CIA front, the Paris Review, at
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2005/06/27/17498851.php

10. His ridicule of the fact of history that Nazis influenced the anti-Communist witchhunts of the 1940s-1950s as of course they were first and foremost anti-communist:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2004/04/05/16762211.php

"We must ask of the Indybay "volunteer," where is your outrage at the feature, front and center, on the Media page, of the reactionary Larry Bensky, one of the supporters of the Thug Hallinan Gang in this current KPFA crisis? Since you clearly need repeating, here are the reminders, all taken from Indybay:"

I'll start by saying: Fuck You.

Is there something unclear about the word volunteer? What's with the quotes? Asshole.

I don't like the LB feature one fucking bit. Know what though, that's OK. There are lots of things I don't personally like, but this is not my personal blog either.

I did not make the LB feature. But, I did pull together the Marc Sapir one. How you like dem apples?

And no, reposting the same shit is not alright. It will be hidden. Drop a fucking link. Welcome to the internet, jerk.

Do I risk getting my posts censored if I say that 'volunteer', if that is indeed what the person is, comes across as an 'asshole'?

If people are going to speak with authority for the indybay collective, they should have pen names if they don't want to use their real ones. And they shouldn't post abusive comments, especially when they're anonymous.

By the way, I doubt that Richard Phelps' posts to indybay taken all together use as much server space or bandwidth as just one large audio or small video.

Hi Aaron,

I understand I come across here as an asshole. Calling someone an asshole in the comments is good reason for a comment to be hidden. So yes, posts will often be hidden when there is name calling.

I agree that I should not post abusive comments. I'm writing for myself, not the collective.

Bandwidth and server space are not the issue. Reposting duplicate content is not allowed, whether you are posting text, audio, video or photos. You can refer new and longtime readers to previously published content by using a link.

I honestly hope all contributors demonstrate more respect for one another, the editorial policy, and indybay in general, which is maintained by volunteers, supported by small donations, and exists for, with thanks to, our communities. Paz.

I understand that there used to be a progressive union at KPFA, the United Electrical Workers, who got forced out by the ACG and were then replaced by the CWA which was seen as a company union.

That's the bare bones of what I've heard. Could someone give more details, or correct me on this, or post a link to an article?

One day in the newsroom, Brian said really fast and low with a a disarmingly broad smile, "I intend to join an organization, maniputlate my way into a position of authority for which I am unqualified, and then in that position, work to slowly dismantle and destroy the organization". He said that. I heard him, and I looked him in the eye. It shocked me I was taken a back. FOr one thing, -I did not know he was aware of of that kind of mind set. He seemed young, and then to say it with a complete smile unnerved me: I did not know what to make of it-but it sent a chill through me.

I was/am not sure then or now whether he meant it or was just repeating some chillingly evil quote-it sounded like it was from "The Prince" or some other Machiavellian scribe. I recognized the mind set but not the origination of the quote and was surprised that this fresh faced kid quoted it, joking, or serious, it struck me as odd and I never forgot it...

This was years ago. Now I do not know whether he meant that or not-I do know it is prophetic. Any one recognize the quote?