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Indybay Feature
Police/Merchant Crack-Down Downtown: Resistance Meetings Saturday and Sunday
Heavily increased police presence and harassment on Pacific Avenue, the electoral victory of Mayor Ryan Coonerty, front-page hate propaganda by the Santa Cruz Sentinel, and closed-door meetings of the Downtown Association apparently pressing for more selective enforcement and possibly worse laws have all contributed to a crisis for poor, homeless, and street people downtown.
A meeting today (Saturday the 14th) and a protest tomorrow (Sunday the 15th) are planned.
A meeting today (Saturday the 14th) and a protest tomorrow (Sunday the 15th) are planned.
Middle-class supporters of gay rights (i.e. human rights) who are gathering this morning in front of the courthouse need to remember that others outside not only are being denied their right to marry if they are gay, but are having their very survival rights threatened.
The SCPD in its drive to "cleanse" the downtown of "undeisrable"-looking elements has reportedly:
*** ticketed and driven away religious food providers for homeless people in front of Borders on Thursday afternoon. Coral, a foodserver with SAFE (Society for Artistic Freedom and Expression), was surrounded, harassed, and threatened for feeding people later that night in front of New Leaf Market. Both such feedings have happened regularly on a weekly basis in the past.
*** three-times tasered a man Wednesday night in front of Borders in an incident that shocked three employees of a neighboring store.
*** have repeatedly ticketed and driven away homeless sleepers in front of the Greek Orthodox Church across the street from the main library in spite of the fact that sleepers report they were given permission to sleep there. In Santa Cruz it is a $97 offense to sleep on any public property or in your vehicle--even though there is no shelter for 90% of the homeless community.
*** have massively increased ticketed for "sitting near a panhandler", "being within 50' of a change-making machine while seated", "performing music while sitting on the lip of a planter",
"spitting on the sidewalk" in the rain, biking "the wrong way" on Pacific Ave., and going through Stop signs on a bike when no traffic was coming in either direction--among other harassment stops being made by police, sometimes sweeping the sidewalk four abreast.
*** been backed up by reported hate speech by merchants--such as that reported in the Wednesday Santa Cruz Sentinel (http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_10962547 )
*** supported a false arrest at the Metro Bus Station on Security Guard complaint on an activist, talking with homeless people there, who drew the station's attention to religious radio propaganda (KSCO) being broadcast live over the loudspeakers there.
*** are reportedly harassing poor people of color downtown repeatedly in response to Mayor Ryan Coonerty's new call to "clean up" Santa Cruz
*** have stepped up the war on marijuana downtown--again against the poor--in spite of community consensus that this is a corrupting costly and abusive activity.
*** retains on active duty Sgt. Christian Le Moss, who assaulted and broke the arm of Donna Deiss on May 9th. Deiss is an elderly disabled woman who lives in her van. LeMoss and Officer Winston, also accused of violent behavior towards the poor, recently false arrested and roughed up one of Deiss's support persons on Pacific Ave. Deiss is still charged with the catchall "resisting arrest' charge and facing trial in January.
*** has backed off of its assault on the Wednesday Drum Circle next to the Farmer's Market, where on September 17th it created a near-riot with its attempt to "discourage" those assembling there. Under Mayor Coonerty's "no public assembly or loitering" in public parking lots, all traditional Santa Cruz activities other than parking and walking through have been categorically outlawed. Food Not Bombs worker Jack Russ and Free Skool activist Wes Modes face misdemeanor charges for protesting police harassment there. Meanwhile the city continues to put up green mesh fencing around the trees to criminalize public assembly--and the community continues to take down the fencing and assemble.
*** is apparently backing up Chief Ranger John Wallace's mandated shredding of tents and survival gear of homeless campers in the Pogonip--who have no legal place to sleep as winter approaches. Tonight there will be space for less than 80 of the City's 1500-2000 homeless.
*** refuses to release public records that might document the extent (or absence) of problems at the Drum Circle. An activist's two attempts to pick up records at the SCPD station after being told they were available were refused when he pointed out he was in fact tape recording the interaction. Police officials doing public business, he pointed out, have no expectation of privacy. Police department "rules" supposedly prohibit the public's recording their transactions, though police regularly make such video records.
The HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION[HRO] meets today (as it does each week) at 2 PM at the Tacqueria Vallarta at Cathcart and Pacific to discuss criminalization of the homeless and its recent appeals to the ACLU.
HRO and HUFF (Homeless United for Friendship & Freedom) will be meeting, tabling, and protesting the Coonerty Crackdown in front of his Bookshop Santa Cruz Sunday November 15th at 2 PM. Under discussion: Know Your Rights on the Street forums, Copwatch Trainings, and an extended replay of last year's Homies for the Homeless Sleep-In at City Hall.
More info: call 831-423-4833. Or tune in to Free Radio Saturday 2-4 PM, Sunday 9:30 AM - 1 PM (call in to the shows at 427-3772).
The SCPD in its drive to "cleanse" the downtown of "undeisrable"-looking elements has reportedly:
*** ticketed and driven away religious food providers for homeless people in front of Borders on Thursday afternoon. Coral, a foodserver with SAFE (Society for Artistic Freedom and Expression), was surrounded, harassed, and threatened for feeding people later that night in front of New Leaf Market. Both such feedings have happened regularly on a weekly basis in the past.
*** three-times tasered a man Wednesday night in front of Borders in an incident that shocked three employees of a neighboring store.
*** have repeatedly ticketed and driven away homeless sleepers in front of the Greek Orthodox Church across the street from the main library in spite of the fact that sleepers report they were given permission to sleep there. In Santa Cruz it is a $97 offense to sleep on any public property or in your vehicle--even though there is no shelter for 90% of the homeless community.
*** have massively increased ticketed for "sitting near a panhandler", "being within 50' of a change-making machine while seated", "performing music while sitting on the lip of a planter",
"spitting on the sidewalk" in the rain, biking "the wrong way" on Pacific Ave., and going through Stop signs on a bike when no traffic was coming in either direction--among other harassment stops being made by police, sometimes sweeping the sidewalk four abreast.
*** been backed up by reported hate speech by merchants--such as that reported in the Wednesday Santa Cruz Sentinel (http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_10962547 )
*** supported a false arrest at the Metro Bus Station on Security Guard complaint on an activist, talking with homeless people there, who drew the station's attention to religious radio propaganda (KSCO) being broadcast live over the loudspeakers there.
*** are reportedly harassing poor people of color downtown repeatedly in response to Mayor Ryan Coonerty's new call to "clean up" Santa Cruz
*** have stepped up the war on marijuana downtown--again against the poor--in spite of community consensus that this is a corrupting costly and abusive activity.
*** retains on active duty Sgt. Christian Le Moss, who assaulted and broke the arm of Donna Deiss on May 9th. Deiss is an elderly disabled woman who lives in her van. LeMoss and Officer Winston, also accused of violent behavior towards the poor, recently false arrested and roughed up one of Deiss's support persons on Pacific Ave. Deiss is still charged with the catchall "resisting arrest' charge and facing trial in January.
*** has backed off of its assault on the Wednesday Drum Circle next to the Farmer's Market, where on September 17th it created a near-riot with its attempt to "discourage" those assembling there. Under Mayor Coonerty's "no public assembly or loitering" in public parking lots, all traditional Santa Cruz activities other than parking and walking through have been categorically outlawed. Food Not Bombs worker Jack Russ and Free Skool activist Wes Modes face misdemeanor charges for protesting police harassment there. Meanwhile the city continues to put up green mesh fencing around the trees to criminalize public assembly--and the community continues to take down the fencing and assemble.
*** is apparently backing up Chief Ranger John Wallace's mandated shredding of tents and survival gear of homeless campers in the Pogonip--who have no legal place to sleep as winter approaches. Tonight there will be space for less than 80 of the City's 1500-2000 homeless.
*** refuses to release public records that might document the extent (or absence) of problems at the Drum Circle. An activist's two attempts to pick up records at the SCPD station after being told they were available were refused when he pointed out he was in fact tape recording the interaction. Police officials doing public business, he pointed out, have no expectation of privacy. Police department "rules" supposedly prohibit the public's recording their transactions, though police regularly make such video records.
The HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION[HRO] meets today (as it does each week) at 2 PM at the Tacqueria Vallarta at Cathcart and Pacific to discuss criminalization of the homeless and its recent appeals to the ACLU.
HRO and HUFF (Homeless United for Friendship & Freedom) will be meeting, tabling, and protesting the Coonerty Crackdown in front of his Bookshop Santa Cruz Sunday November 15th at 2 PM. Under discussion: Know Your Rights on the Street forums, Copwatch Trainings, and an extended replay of last year's Homies for the Homeless Sleep-In at City Hall.
More info: call 831-423-4833. Or tune in to Free Radio Saturday 2-4 PM, Sunday 9:30 AM - 1 PM (call in to the shows at 427-3772).
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Why is it "harassment" to stop cyclists from blowing through stop signs and cruising the wrong way down one way streets?? These guys are a real danger to those of us who like to walk downtown. They show no care at all for people, even children, in crosswalks and they piss off drivers who then take out their anger on law-abiding cyclists. We need to increase, not decrease, enforcement of the traffic laws for everyone's safety.
I caught your last radio show and thought it was one of your better shows in the last few months. It disturbs me that every holiday season, the "cleansing" of downtown seems to get worse and worse. Stopping food programs, interrupting peoples survival during the beginning of the winter with the ultimate goal to make tourists feel more comfortable only confirms what we already know. The city cares only about those that shop and the rest can take a walk, far from the mall. Through the use of harassment, selective enforcement and the plethora of unconstitutional laws we have, the yearly cleansing has begun.
However, you cannot sweep poverty away. Poverty needs to be seen, not moved along to pamper those who buy more than another. Whatever happened to the holiday season being about helping the poor, about giving not buying. When I was a child, my parents taught us to give up some of our presents, without knowing what they were, and give them to children in need. The holliday season was truly about giving not spending to us.
More each year it's about how much people spend and whomever is perceived as getting in the way be damned. Rights exist, in theory, for EVERYONE. Public space exists for everyone. Many peoples perceptions and fears come from the type of media the Senile dished out in the article you referenced.
If the type of violence we saw during the Troll Busting era returns, we can place some of the blame on our local mainstream media.
However, you cannot sweep poverty away. Poverty needs to be seen, not moved along to pamper those who buy more than another. Whatever happened to the holiday season being about helping the poor, about giving not buying. When I was a child, my parents taught us to give up some of our presents, without knowing what they were, and give them to children in need. The holliday season was truly about giving not spending to us.
More each year it's about how much people spend and whomever is perceived as getting in the way be damned. Rights exist, in theory, for EVERYONE. Public space exists for everyone. Many peoples perceptions and fears come from the type of media the Senile dished out in the article you referenced.
If the type of violence we saw during the Troll Busting era returns, we can place some of the blame on our local mainstream media.
I didn't have my glasses and couldn't see what I was doing or how to operate the phone, and it was too dark to get much video, but I did get a few seconds audio.: http://www.palmspringsbum.org/bin/Video000.3gp
http://www.palmspringsbum.org/bin/Video001.3gp
The Downtown Hosts and their community volunteers aren't the only ones that can patrol the Avenue with cell-phones, and as soon as I post this I intend to train myself to use mine with or without my glasses.
http://www.palmspringsbum.org/bin/Video001.3gp
The Downtown Hosts and their community volunteers aren't the only ones that can patrol the Avenue with cell-phones, and as soon as I post this I intend to train myself to use mine with or without my glasses.
For more information:
http://www.palmspringsbum.org
I agree. Would be nice to walk along the sidewalk without getting clipped by some biker.
who are they tasering. I still don't understand what happened by el Palomar.
By the way, they should put a counter-current bike lane downtown like on Beach street. Bikes shouldn't be on the sidewalk, but because they have the funny one way street design, it is difficult to get around. People double park and jaywalk and let people out all the time and nobody gets angry unless they are violating the spirit of the law by jaywalking in front of a car, so I think that people selectively see bicycles doing technical violations rather than actually endangering people. It is clear that there isn't enough parking space for everyone to drive down Pacific, and it's sort of silly to put up all these parking garages. They should do infrastructure improvements to encourage bicycling like in any european or Japanese city.
By the way, they should put a counter-current bike lane downtown like on Beach street. Bikes shouldn't be on the sidewalk, but because they have the funny one way street design, it is difficult to get around. People double park and jaywalk and let people out all the time and nobody gets angry unless they are violating the spirit of the law by jaywalking in front of a car, so I think that people selectively see bicycles doing technical violations rather than actually endangering people. It is clear that there isn't enough parking space for everyone to drive down Pacific, and it's sort of silly to put up all these parking garages. They should do infrastructure improvements to encourage bicycling like in any european or Japanese city.
I for one am tired of Robert Norse and HUFF. The homeless need HELP and HUFF does nothing to help. There are so many more good people who actually help with homeless without making a fuss. Just this week, a woman felt the need to help the homeless. She started collecting sleeping bags to pass out. What a great idea. All HUFF does is...well....HUFF.
Until Robert Norse and HUFF do something positive FOR THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE (not just themselves), I will continue to be annoyed by him and them. For example, if you want better "community relations" for the homeless, why don't you organize them to clean up the trash that is left on the levee that gets flushed into the Marine Sanctuary when the rain comes? Why don't you go around and pick up the human feces I find in the most unexpected places downtown?
If homeless people acted like better citizens, maybe they would be better tolerated.
If homeless people acted like better citizens, maybe they would be better tolerated.
I think you're denying the reality of the mood of the avg. citizen of Santa Cruz when you try to portray this issue as instigated by merchants to appease tourists.
I'll propose that it's instead the majority of citizens/locals who've had enough of the continuing deterioration on the mall, and we're the ones pressuring the city to clean it up and turn it around.
I'll propose that it's instead the majority of citizens/locals who've had enough of the continuing deterioration on the mall, and we're the ones pressuring the city to clean it up and turn it around.
I do not blame everything on the merchants. I never even used the word merchant. My question to you is how do you intend to clean up the mall? I would rather see independent outreach workers with no police connection to HELP people rather than act as snitches for people sitting to close to a change machine nobody uses. Never give up rights for security. Yes I thank Robert for doing his street interviews and for a good show. I care that food programs are being shut down when they have gone on for a VERY long time with no harassment, except during the shopping season. I care about poverty. The more we disrespect peoples basic rights with feeding and sleeping bans etc. the more they will act accordingly. To clean up the mall with more enforcement is a waste of money and shows a general lack of humanity as well as a general " we can't help the poor" mentality. Some people believe all the homeless and impoverished are beyond help, that they are all the same, or do not deserve things like housing and healthcare. I for one do not believe that. If someone is truly breaking the law, acting violently they can be arrested. I have walked the mall for 30 years without incident. But I don't fear people because they look different or act different.
I will not trade the rights of the poor so others who fear can feel more secure. Rights apply to everyone.
I do not agree with anyone 100% of the time, but as far as the censorship, Robert has spoken out against it till he was blue in the face regarding indybay. The thread is still there. He did not delete the comment. Some editor made that decision. A volunteer. I don't agree with the way its done, but they have a hard job and they do it for free. With the proper funds they could easily add a hidden comment. But that debate has been had made many times.
So again, THANKS for a great show!
I will not trade the rights of the poor so others who fear can feel more secure. Rights apply to everyone.
I do not agree with anyone 100% of the time, but as far as the censorship, Robert has spoken out against it till he was blue in the face regarding indybay. The thread is still there. He did not delete the comment. Some editor made that decision. A volunteer. I don't agree with the way its done, but they have a hard job and they do it for free. With the proper funds they could easily add a hidden comment. But that debate has been had made many times.
So again, THANKS for a great show!
If they make it into the studio early Sunday morning (8:30 AM), I hope to have two homeless women organizing for the protest in front of Bookshop Santa Cruz tomorrow.
Today around 5 PM, I interviewed two Hare Krishna tablers, taking down there table near the vacant storefront that used to be Gelatomania. They were told they couldn't give away free religious books without a business permit by Officer Forbus in another false bit of information from the SCPD.
Forbus or another cop also reportedly told the two women organizing that they too would be at the Bookshop Santa Cruz sidewalk tomorrow to give their point of view.
Tune in and come on down!
Today around 5 PM, I interviewed two Hare Krishna tablers, taking down there table near the vacant storefront that used to be Gelatomania. They were told they couldn't give away free religious books without a business permit by Officer Forbus in another false bit of information from the SCPD.
Forbus or another cop also reportedly told the two women organizing that they too would be at the Bookshop Santa Cruz sidewalk tomorrow to give their point of view.
Tune in and come on down!
I'm another Santa Cruz Local - 5th generation. I am so sick of going downtown and seeing Robert protesting in front of the bookshop. Give it a rest buddy. We get it, HUFF doesn't like the Coonerty. Move on.
HUFF doesn't do anything? Are you blind? The above article included these FIVE specific reports---
a. SCPD ticketed and shut down Christian food servers in front of Borders on Nov 13,2008
b. SCPD tasered a man 3x in front of Borders on Nov 12, 2008
c. SCPD repeatedly ticket homeless sleepers in front of the Greek Orthodox Church despite having permission
d. SCPD have increased tickets generally for marijuana, sitting on a planter lip, asking for spare change from a group of 2 people, begging less than 50' from a change machine, etc.
e. was himself cited at the Metro Center when he refused to leave the premises during the middle of an interview with a homeless man there
These five reports (as well as updates on past reports on LeMoss, Winston, and the continued war against the Drum Circle) are incidents which just happened that you would never know about if HUFF or Robert Norse didn't report them. And, despite learning all these new things, LIFE TIME LOCAL and SYBIL are STILL blindly droning that "HUFF and Robert Norse haven't accomplished anything in years!"
I guess that means that neither has the SENTINEL, METRO SANTA CRUZ or KSCO because they ONLY report news!!
a. SCPD ticketed and shut down Christian food servers in front of Borders on Nov 13,2008
b. SCPD tasered a man 3x in front of Borders on Nov 12, 2008
c. SCPD repeatedly ticket homeless sleepers in front of the Greek Orthodox Church despite having permission
d. SCPD have increased tickets generally for marijuana, sitting on a planter lip, asking for spare change from a group of 2 people, begging less than 50' from a change machine, etc.
e. was himself cited at the Metro Center when he refused to leave the premises during the middle of an interview with a homeless man there
These five reports (as well as updates on past reports on LeMoss, Winston, and the continued war against the Drum Circle) are incidents which just happened that you would never know about if HUFF or Robert Norse didn't report them. And, despite learning all these new things, LIFE TIME LOCAL and SYBIL are STILL blindly droning that "HUFF and Robert Norse haven't accomplished anything in years!"
I guess that means that neither has the SENTINEL, METRO SANTA CRUZ or KSCO because they ONLY report news!!
For more information:
http://www.huffsantacruz.org
Peace be with you
Robert knows what he does is important. In Arcata when someone says that "the homeless must be oppressed because they lived there for five generations," what they really mean is "we killed Wiyots and ran off Asians too." When you get these soulless distractors spending their time coming up with shallow criticizing you also get many more who stop, watch and think "you know Robert is right."
Unfortunately I don't know how to get them to do anything about it. I guess it is like the saying "When they came for the homeless I didn't do anything, because I was not homeless. . ."
love eternal
tad
Robert knows what he does is important. In Arcata when someone says that "the homeless must be oppressed because they lived there for five generations," what they really mean is "we killed Wiyots and ran off Asians too." When you get these soulless distractors spending their time coming up with shallow criticizing you also get many more who stop, watch and think "you know Robert is right."
Unfortunately I don't know how to get them to do anything about it. I guess it is like the saying "When they came for the homeless I didn't do anything, because I was not homeless. . ."
love eternal
tad
Becky is down the rabbit hole, when she's complaining because the police DO do something about panhandling and drug use on the mall.
Wake up lady. You and Huff seem to still be missing the point that the rest of us have had enough of this junk. The experiment failed. The votes are in. We want Change.
So go ahead and set up your table today, and have your voice heard. That's the beauty of our system; everyone gets to express their opinion. But in the end, the majority holds sway...and you're in a distinct minority at this point.
(And listing Roberts bust is bogus. He actively solicits these altercations.)
Wake up lady. You and Huff seem to still be missing the point that the rest of us have had enough of this junk. The experiment failed. The votes are in. We want Change.
So go ahead and set up your table today, and have your voice heard. That's the beauty of our system; everyone gets to express their opinion. But in the end, the majority holds sway...and you're in a distinct minority at this point.
(And listing Roberts bust is bogus. He actively solicits these altercations.)
Becky says "HUFF doesn't do anything? Are you blind? The above article included these FIVE specific reports--- "
And then goes on to just TALK about incidents. Why not talk about the things you HAVE ACHIEVED? That list might not be as long as the 5 points you bring up.
I love Santa Cruz. I think that there are social problems in town that need to be addressed in a compassionate way. But HUFF, Becky and Robert really don't seem to get anything done other then talk talk talk. And when that nice woman came up with an action plan and tried to get something done what happened? Norse and Johnson kidnapped the thread in the Sentinel, where people were praising the woman, and made it all about them.
Give it a rest. Let other people get things accomplished.
And then goes on to just TALK about incidents. Why not talk about the things you HAVE ACHIEVED? That list might not be as long as the 5 points you bring up.
I love Santa Cruz. I think that there are social problems in town that need to be addressed in a compassionate way. But HUFF, Becky and Robert really don't seem to get anything done other then talk talk talk. And when that nice woman came up with an action plan and tried to get something done what happened? Norse and Johnson kidnapped the thread in the Sentinel, where people were praising the woman, and made it all about them.
Give it a rest. Let other people get things accomplished.
You make a valid point Narcisso. HUFF only complains - does no real good.
Um, Becky? What does telling me that someone got tasered have to do with cleaning up human feces? Or organizing the homeless to clean the levee?
As I said, HUFF doesn't DO anything. Reporting isn't ACTION. So, by your own admission, Becky, HUFF does squat. And does squat about what your "people" leave behind when they squat.
Oh, and before you label me as an "elitist" because I can actually string together logical ideas that happen to contradict yours, I would like to disclose that I have a major mental illness and am on SSI because of it. Like many of the homeless people I have talked to downtown.
As I said, HUFF doesn't DO anything. Reporting isn't ACTION. So, by your own admission, Becky, HUFF does squat. And does squat about what your "people" leave behind when they squat.
Oh, and before you label me as an "elitist" because I can actually string together logical ideas that happen to contradict yours, I would like to disclose that I have a major mental illness and am on SSI because of it. Like many of the homeless people I have talked to downtown.
I too was downtown today. Saw the same tired "protest" in front of Santa Cruz Bookshop. As a side note, Robert only recorded those who's opinions matched his. Nice 'objective' work there Robert. The general feel was that people are tired of these "protests". Even funnier side note, the homeless avoided the area -- wonder why.
Report from Coonertyland: Thanks to those who signed the HRO (Human Rights Organization) petition seeking the restoration of public spaces. Rev. Dennis Adams' Potters Hand meal went on unmolested at the Town Clock at 2 PM. I'm hoping to organize a future Know Your Rights training for folks, perhaps at the Drum Circle, perhaps at a future protest.
One idea for the Next protest at his new "youth" organization The Next—the special interest group cooked up in time for his reelection campaign whose headquarters are just down the block. Or perhaps the Downtown Association, which is holding closed meetings, apparently backing an increased police crackdown, and essentially signing up again on the Human Rights Be Damned agenda as they scapegoat the poor for the tanking economy.
I called the Mayor “Lyin' Goonerty” on the air today because of the mixture of mendacity and thuggery involved in his “downtown improvement program”. As winter approaches, Goonerty continues to target the survival of the Santa Cruz homeless with shrinking public spaces, increased police harassment, and refusal to follow the L.A. and San Diego suspension of their Sleeping Bans at night (to avoid the Constitutional violation of “cruel and ununsual punishment” which Sleeping Bans obviously are).
Those interested in checking out more reports of harassment from the street can go to http://www.radiolibre.org/brb/brb081116.mp3 . More accounts of bike tickets, sleeping tickets, some conflicting accounts of a tasering on Pacific Avenue...and more.
Coming up on Thursday's show: harassment of food servers last Thursday in front of Borders and New Leaf, driving away the Hare Krishna's near O'Neill's Sports Shop, and a report from Venice California of the fight to protect RV dwellers from gentrification removal. And mass ticketing of sleepers near the Greek Orthodox Church across from the Public Library.
HUFF, I hope, will continue to act as a local Project Censored—to expose police, politician, and merchant abuses that other local media won't. And to encourage people not to patronize businesses that engage in anti-homeless practices or are the HQ for anti-homeless politicians masquerading as progressives. We will continue to support the restoration of public space for all—particularly homeless people to whom it is doubly important: including UCSC, the Metro Transit Center, Public Parking Lots, businesses that claim to be open to the public, and the public sidewalks—that merchants are moving to gentrify.
None of the Coonerty's Sleeping Ban Supporters on this website had the courage or clarity to speak up on the Sunday radio show or identify themselves downtown at the protest. Sounds like paranoia and guilt to me. I remember other groups that would gather in secret behind white masks. To support denying poor people the right to sleep legally somewhere (not anywhere and everywhere, but somewhere) is to deny basic human rights.
To review the ugly face of hate, check out the continuing Sentinel forum thread at http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-cruz-sentinel/T888LN4BCSLAROARG/p19# (in response to the “Kill to cleanse the homeless of 'undesirables' “ front-page smearjob by G. Bookwalter 11/12).
There you can find literally hundreds of hate comments and personal attacks, with no coherent defense of Coonerty's Sleeping Ban and the Coonerty clampdown downtown. Why bother? They have their friends the SCPD to act as a private merchant vigilante squad.
.
Until people begin to resist more strongly, that is...
The upside to wading through the muck is finding more people on a typically reactionary site defending the obvious basic human rights of those on the streets against the Klansters that want to run them off.
One idea for the Next protest at his new "youth" organization The Next—the special interest group cooked up in time for his reelection campaign whose headquarters are just down the block. Or perhaps the Downtown Association, which is holding closed meetings, apparently backing an increased police crackdown, and essentially signing up again on the Human Rights Be Damned agenda as they scapegoat the poor for the tanking economy.
I called the Mayor “Lyin' Goonerty” on the air today because of the mixture of mendacity and thuggery involved in his “downtown improvement program”. As winter approaches, Goonerty continues to target the survival of the Santa Cruz homeless with shrinking public spaces, increased police harassment, and refusal to follow the L.A. and San Diego suspension of their Sleeping Bans at night (to avoid the Constitutional violation of “cruel and ununsual punishment” which Sleeping Bans obviously are).
Those interested in checking out more reports of harassment from the street can go to http://www.radiolibre.org/brb/brb081116.mp3 . More accounts of bike tickets, sleeping tickets, some conflicting accounts of a tasering on Pacific Avenue...and more.
Coming up on Thursday's show: harassment of food servers last Thursday in front of Borders and New Leaf, driving away the Hare Krishna's near O'Neill's Sports Shop, and a report from Venice California of the fight to protect RV dwellers from gentrification removal. And mass ticketing of sleepers near the Greek Orthodox Church across from the Public Library.
HUFF, I hope, will continue to act as a local Project Censored—to expose police, politician, and merchant abuses that other local media won't. And to encourage people not to patronize businesses that engage in anti-homeless practices or are the HQ for anti-homeless politicians masquerading as progressives. We will continue to support the restoration of public space for all—particularly homeless people to whom it is doubly important: including UCSC, the Metro Transit Center, Public Parking Lots, businesses that claim to be open to the public, and the public sidewalks—that merchants are moving to gentrify.
None of the Coonerty's Sleeping Ban Supporters on this website had the courage or clarity to speak up on the Sunday radio show or identify themselves downtown at the protest. Sounds like paranoia and guilt to me. I remember other groups that would gather in secret behind white masks. To support denying poor people the right to sleep legally somewhere (not anywhere and everywhere, but somewhere) is to deny basic human rights.
To review the ugly face of hate, check out the continuing Sentinel forum thread at http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-cruz-sentinel/T888LN4BCSLAROARG/p19# (in response to the “Kill to cleanse the homeless of 'undesirables' “ front-page smearjob by G. Bookwalter 11/12).
There you can find literally hundreds of hate comments and personal attacks, with no coherent defense of Coonerty's Sleeping Ban and the Coonerty clampdown downtown. Why bother? They have their friends the SCPD to act as a private merchant vigilante squad.
.
Until people begin to resist more strongly, that is...
The upside to wading through the muck is finding more people on a typically reactionary site defending the obvious basic human rights of those on the streets against the Klansters that want to run them off.
Robert Robert Robert please find a better way of handling people who disagree with you. Play Nice!
"None of the Coonerty's Sleeping Ban Supporters on this website had the courage or clarity to speak up on the Sunday radio show or identify themselves downtown at the protest. Sounds like paranoia and guilt to me. I remember other groups that would gather in secret behind white masks. To support denying poor people the right to sleep legally somewhere (not anywhere and everywhere, but somewhere) is to deny basic human rights."
I don't like the sleeping ban as a matter of principle, but to compare people who support it as equivalent to the KKK is a profoundly insulting and historically baseless claim. When Mayor Coonerty starts lynching the homeless, then feel free to make the parallel. Until then, you're doing a better job of demonstrating your irrelevance than the Downtown Business Association or whatever other windmill you're fighting.
I don't like the sleeping ban as a matter of principle, but to compare people who support it as equivalent to the KKK is a profoundly insulting and historically baseless claim. When Mayor Coonerty starts lynching the homeless, then feel free to make the parallel. Until then, you're doing a better job of demonstrating your irrelevance than the Downtown Business Association or whatever other windmill you're fighting.
Looks like the trolls (i.e. those who want to engage in personal attacks to sideline activist opposition to human rights violations and meaningful discussion of the issues involved) have followed my trail of breadcrumbs from the Sentinel forums.
And, of course, there's still no discussion around the sleeping ban itself and/or any comparative police stats even faintly discussing a need for the abusive Coonerty crackdown going on downtown.
Coonerty isn't a Klanster, of course, just a business-biased psuedo-progressive politician (on homeless and civil liberties issues locally).
To the anonymous "tired" and "ex-resident", If you oppose the sleeping ban in principle but regard opposition to it as "irrelevant", your principles on the subject aren't too strong, are they?
Calling for vigilante action downtown against "bums" (i.e. those who hang out and look homeless) betrays a belief that some people have rights in public spaces (those with property, money, and businesses who generally live elsewhere) and some do not.
Others might be interested in the upcoming 60th Anniversary of the UN Declaration of Human Rights Fair at the Louden Nelson Center on December 6th starting at noon. HUFF, the HRO, and other organizations will be speaking and organizing there.
There's also a WILPF General Meeting Tuesday, November 18, 7:00pm at the Friends’ Meeting House, 225 Rooney St., at the top of Morrissey in Santa Cruz. There Bill Monning and David Sweet will speak on “Reclaiming America: Restoring our Democracy," and will help us digest and assess the results of the November elections. Free and open to everyone. Human rights organizers might find some open ears there.
Winter may move homeless people to form self-protective encampments and city hall protests. They'll need support if they do.
And, of course, there's still no discussion around the sleeping ban itself and/or any comparative police stats even faintly discussing a need for the abusive Coonerty crackdown going on downtown.
Coonerty isn't a Klanster, of course, just a business-biased psuedo-progressive politician (on homeless and civil liberties issues locally).
To the anonymous "tired" and "ex-resident", If you oppose the sleeping ban in principle but regard opposition to it as "irrelevant", your principles on the subject aren't too strong, are they?
Calling for vigilante action downtown against "bums" (i.e. those who hang out and look homeless) betrays a belief that some people have rights in public spaces (those with property, money, and businesses who generally live elsewhere) and some do not.
Others might be interested in the upcoming 60th Anniversary of the UN Declaration of Human Rights Fair at the Louden Nelson Center on December 6th starting at noon. HUFF, the HRO, and other organizations will be speaking and organizing there.
There's also a WILPF General Meeting Tuesday, November 18, 7:00pm at the Friends’ Meeting House, 225 Rooney St., at the top of Morrissey in Santa Cruz. There Bill Monning and David Sweet will speak on “Reclaiming America: Restoring our Democracy," and will help us digest and assess the results of the November elections. Free and open to everyone. Human rights organizers might find some open ears there.
Winter may move homeless people to form self-protective encampments and city hall protests. They'll need support if they do.
Concerning coming over from the Sentinel, I rarely read the Sentinel. I DO read IndyBay and find your posts to be one-sided babbling. You talk talk and talk and then protest protest and protest somemore. Over the years, it's the same ole thing with HUFF - all talk and little action. So you don't like the sleeping ban, it's not going away. Instead of protesting it, work AROUND it. So the police are making more of a presence downtown, okay - downtown has gotten bad lately. So you don't like Coonerty, me either - but I don't try to ruin the family business by continually protesting outside.
I DID read the article about the woman who collected sleep bags for the homeless. Now THAT is someone DOING something good for the homeless.
I DID read the article about the woman who collected sleep bags for the homeless. Now THAT is someone DOING something good for the homeless.
Robert, I'm not in opposition to those who advocate on behalf of the homeless. What I have an issue with is how you and your group have identified themselves as THE homeless advocacy group in Santa Cruz, and everyone who may differ tactically is somehow complicit with anti-homeless laws and behavior.
You continue to miss out on the entire consensus-building aspect of organizing around an issue through your divisiveness. People in Santa Cruz are genuinely progressive and compassionate, yet you don't find many of them lining up to support HUFF. Have you considered that perhaps it's not what you're advocating for, but the way in which you do so?
You continue to miss out on the entire consensus-building aspect of organizing around an issue through your divisiveness. People in Santa Cruz are genuinely progressive and compassionate, yet you don't find many of them lining up to support HUFF. Have you considered that perhaps it's not what you're advocating for, but the way in which you do so?
Critics of HUFF would have more credibility with me if they actually did something themselves instead of attacking me and HUFF. Sure we're clumsy, makeshift, few, and dismissed by those in power. But we're out there, raising the issues. And those who we've supported ranging from the De Anza Motor Home folks to Clearview Court to Dolphin-Lee folks to Camp Paradise survivors, to River Street Refugees know who we are and respect us.
If the trolls, who style themselves critics, have alternative methods and are actually doing them, more power to them. Let us know. We can be supportive. That hasn't happened, however, and isn't likely to happen.
As for charity sleeping bag donations--that's great. But with police and rangers seizing and shredding camping gear, it may also be appropriate to attack that practice.
So how's about all you supportive folks advising Mayor Coonerty and soon-to-be-Mayor Mathews phone them at their City Council 420-5020 to make some provision this year to ensure that we catch up with Fresno, L.A., San Diego, Richmond, and Palo Alto and dump the sleeping and camping ban in some areas of the City.
Or--hey, direct action!--provide not only sleeping bags, but some moral and physical support as at a camping spot--so when homeless people sleep together for safety and community and then get hassled by Goonerty's Gumshoes, there are some good locals standing up for them.
You could even call yourself the anti-HUFFsters, if you wish!
This is not about HUFF, of course, but about human rights repression by the city. It's not about charity but allowing homeless people to be self-sufficient and enjoy minimal human dignity.
HUFF, however, for want of another organization, meets Wednesdays 9:30 AM to 11:30 AM at its new location at the Sub Rosa Cafe on Pacific Ave. across the street from the Saturn Cafe. Or volunteer at 423-4833.
If the trolls, who style themselves critics, have alternative methods and are actually doing them, more power to them. Let us know. We can be supportive. That hasn't happened, however, and isn't likely to happen.
As for charity sleeping bag donations--that's great. But with police and rangers seizing and shredding camping gear, it may also be appropriate to attack that practice.
So how's about all you supportive folks advising Mayor Coonerty and soon-to-be-Mayor Mathews phone them at their City Council 420-5020 to make some provision this year to ensure that we catch up with Fresno, L.A., San Diego, Richmond, and Palo Alto and dump the sleeping and camping ban in some areas of the City.
Or--hey, direct action!--provide not only sleeping bags, but some moral and physical support as at a camping spot--so when homeless people sleep together for safety and community and then get hassled by Goonerty's Gumshoes, there are some good locals standing up for them.
You could even call yourself the anti-HUFFsters, if you wish!
This is not about HUFF, of course, but about human rights repression by the city. It's not about charity but allowing homeless people to be self-sufficient and enjoy minimal human dignity.
HUFF, however, for want of another organization, meets Wednesdays 9:30 AM to 11:30 AM at its new location at the Sub Rosa Cafe on Pacific Ave. across the street from the Saturn Cafe. Or volunteer at 423-4833.
Robert, you just made ex-residents point! You believe that HUFF is the only game in town and the rest of us are just sitting on our enlarged butts doing nothing.
Some of us prefer to work in the background helping the homeless. I can't count the number of people I have either directed or personally drove to established shelters where they could get the help they needed. I keep in contact with many of them. There are so many homeless out there that just need to be pointed in the right direction and want to help themselves get back on their feet. They just need help finding that help.
Those are the homeless that actually WANT help. There is a great number of homeless in Santa Cruz that call themselves the 'homeless by choice' group. They live in the parks, woods anywhere they can pitch their tent. Problem is, once they mess up the area, they leave the mess and move on. There is tons of trash in the Pogonip. Tons. We go in every year and clean up old discarded camps. These are camps, not people cleaning out their garages and carrying the junk to the Pogpnip. Tons of garbage.
Then there are the homeless who are on drugs and don't want to get clean. Sorry, not much we can do if they don't want to get help for their addiction.
You aren't the only game in town Robert.
Some of us prefer to work in the background helping the homeless. I can't count the number of people I have either directed or personally drove to established shelters where they could get the help they needed. I keep in contact with many of them. There are so many homeless out there that just need to be pointed in the right direction and want to help themselves get back on their feet. They just need help finding that help.
Those are the homeless that actually WANT help. There is a great number of homeless in Santa Cruz that call themselves the 'homeless by choice' group. They live in the parks, woods anywhere they can pitch their tent. Problem is, once they mess up the area, they leave the mess and move on. There is tons of trash in the Pogonip. Tons. We go in every year and clean up old discarded camps. These are camps, not people cleaning out their garages and carrying the junk to the Pogpnip. Tons of garbage.
Then there are the homeless who are on drugs and don't want to get clean. Sorry, not much we can do if they don't want to get help for their addiction.
You aren't the only game in town Robert.
To listen to Robert, it seems you're either for Huff or you're a troll.
Personally, I don't consider myself to be either.
I'm not calling for any vigilante action against the people who are making the mall a less than clean and less than safe environment. I'm calling for just the opposite: enactment of existing laws.
I don't want the cops busting someone just for being on the mall with a backpack and a sign. But I do want them to cite people if they're drinking or drunk on the mall, aggressively panhandling, littering, etc. And I support enforcement of those rules for everyone; whether they're a transient or a business owner or a shopper or whoever.
Ironically, where Robert and I agree AND disagree is typified by his statement that he wants homeless people to be allowed to be self-sufficient. I want that too.
But unlike Robert, I don't consider someone to be self-sufficient when they're living off of soup kitchens, begging, and relying on assorted community support programs. That isn't self-sufficient in my view; that's relying on the community to take care of you.
I fully support self-sufficiency, but I've grown tired of paying the bills for a steady stream of ever-changing street characters who consider this town an easy mark for a few days/weeks/months of self-sufficient living on my dime. Particularly when these same folks are playing a lead role in lowering the general quality of life along Pacific Ave by engaging in public drinking, littering, panhandling, etc.
Self-sufficient is a total package; it's not picking and choosing when you want to be taken care of and when you want to do it on your own. I can't take seriously someone whose filling their stomach with charity food, cleans up in a charity shower, begs money for their booze or cigarettes..then turns around to complain that they're freedoms are being imposed upon by my communities no-sleeping ban. Take it or leave it; it's a package deal.
Personally, I don't consider myself to be either.
I'm not calling for any vigilante action against the people who are making the mall a less than clean and less than safe environment. I'm calling for just the opposite: enactment of existing laws.
I don't want the cops busting someone just for being on the mall with a backpack and a sign. But I do want them to cite people if they're drinking or drunk on the mall, aggressively panhandling, littering, etc. And I support enforcement of those rules for everyone; whether they're a transient or a business owner or a shopper or whoever.
Ironically, where Robert and I agree AND disagree is typified by his statement that he wants homeless people to be allowed to be self-sufficient. I want that too.
But unlike Robert, I don't consider someone to be self-sufficient when they're living off of soup kitchens, begging, and relying on assorted community support programs. That isn't self-sufficient in my view; that's relying on the community to take care of you.
I fully support self-sufficiency, but I've grown tired of paying the bills for a steady stream of ever-changing street characters who consider this town an easy mark for a few days/weeks/months of self-sufficient living on my dime. Particularly when these same folks are playing a lead role in lowering the general quality of life along Pacific Ave by engaging in public drinking, littering, panhandling, etc.
Self-sufficient is a total package; it's not picking and choosing when you want to be taken care of and when you want to do it on your own. I can't take seriously someone whose filling their stomach with charity food, cleans up in a charity shower, begs money for their booze or cigarettes..then turns around to complain that they're freedoms are being imposed upon by my communities no-sleeping ban. Take it or leave it; it's a package deal.
It seems to me that Santa Cruz is about ten years behind in working on the Homeless Issue.
Santa Barbara's Casa Esperanza invites the homeless into it's doors with the promise of jobs, supportive housing if one cannot work or just to relax if someone does not wish to do either. Supportive housing works fabulously. We take someone straight off the streets who want housing. If they drink it is all right. If they smoke their prescription Pot it is all right. They must do it behind their apartment door. So far we have 61 units for people. You would be surprised how happy these people are.
In December there are 30 new units for the mentally ill ready. We also have two more complexes being built for the chronically homeless as some people affectionately call them in the pipeline. We are hoping to have 700 units by 2012. This housing is beautiful and brand new.
Shelters are not really the answer, folks. It would be nice if the City Fathers of Santa Cruz quit the criminalization of the Homeless and start using street outreach and housing as the solution for your community. It saves money, police harrassment of the homeless etc. We found out that our county was spending 36 million dollars per year on the homeless issue using statis quo figures. Why not find out how much you are spending?
Santa Barbara has come together as a community and is working on the homeless issue as a whole. We have business people, restorative policing, City council members and the general public working and meeting each month to come up with ideas.
Get your heads out of your asses and find out why you think that you are so special and take care, really take care of your community as a whole. And, that means your houseless residents too. Thanks
PS. Your City Fathers are invited to come to Santa Barbara to take a look at our supportive housing complex. Robert---You are invited to come down here also. Why don't you?
Santa Barbara's Casa Esperanza invites the homeless into it's doors with the promise of jobs, supportive housing if one cannot work or just to relax if someone does not wish to do either. Supportive housing works fabulously. We take someone straight off the streets who want housing. If they drink it is all right. If they smoke their prescription Pot it is all right. They must do it behind their apartment door. So far we have 61 units for people. You would be surprised how happy these people are.
In December there are 30 new units for the mentally ill ready. We also have two more complexes being built for the chronically homeless as some people affectionately call them in the pipeline. We are hoping to have 700 units by 2012. This housing is beautiful and brand new.
Shelters are not really the answer, folks. It would be nice if the City Fathers of Santa Cruz quit the criminalization of the Homeless and start using street outreach and housing as the solution for your community. It saves money, police harrassment of the homeless etc. We found out that our county was spending 36 million dollars per year on the homeless issue using statis quo figures. Why not find out how much you are spending?
Santa Barbara has come together as a community and is working on the homeless issue as a whole. We have business people, restorative policing, City council members and the general public working and meeting each month to come up with ideas.
Get your heads out of your asses and find out why you think that you are so special and take care, really take care of your community as a whole. And, that means your houseless residents too. Thanks
PS. Your City Fathers are invited to come to Santa Barbara to take a look at our supportive housing complex. Robert---You are invited to come down here also. Why don't you?
Sounds like what you are doing in Santa Barbara is making a great difference in people's lives.
Can you supply a little more info? How many people are estimated to be homeless in Santa Barbara? It would be a good comparison to look at the total homeless versus the amount of units available. Are they county numbers?
In Santa Cruz we have a very large number of homeless people. I believe Becky Johnson has quoted those numbers as being around 1500-2000 for the county, with the majority of them being in the city of Santa Cruz.
Can you supply a little more info? How many people are estimated to be homeless in Santa Barbara? It would be a good comparison to look at the total homeless versus the amount of units available. Are they county numbers?
In Santa Cruz we have a very large number of homeless people. I believe Becky Johnson has quoted those numbers as being around 1500-2000 for the county, with the majority of them being in the city of Santa Cruz.
You know, I find it a little offensive that people say Huff doesn't do anything. In truth, besides the obvious points Huff members have made here, they have supported food programs. For instance, when my health was much better I began a food program downtown that fed a full meal at its peak to 100 people every Monday night without incident. All by donations as far as Aptos. I also gave out cloths, sleeping bags and anything of use that was donated. Although it was not a " Huff Program", I got allot of support from Huff members and Robert himself, many Huff members still do feed. They do it humbly without the need to say "Look at me! I am feeding someone!' For 8-9 months I did this each week with the very humble help of HUFF, Katie who cooked, and many other people, including merchants county wide. It was a very sad day for me when I had to stop. Huff has never been so much about promoting it's work in feeding etc., because their focus is on rights, exposing police abuse, unconstitutional laws, the use of public space etc. But the fact is, many members do help directly on the streets as individuals. Robert does far more than he ever says, because he does not have to prove anything to anyone. Judging people is easy. i support anyone who dedicates their entire life to what they believe in, the same rights for everyone. The end to oppressive, immoral and unconstitutional laws. Giving a voice to those who have little opportunity to speak their peace.
Without the help I got directly from Robert, my program would have failed. Near its height, three homeless human beings were helping out each week, one who had lost his leg got off the streets with a little help and compassion, others brought more food, workers from stores brought food, we cleaned up and had good relationship with the surrounding merchants whom I checked in with each week to make sure everything was OK and that I could continue.
Yes, even I disagree at times, but that does not negate the good that Huff does. Love em or hate em, they have a purpose, they serve a purpose. Why people feel the need to spend so much energy writing negative comments rather than doing something that you feel will promote change yourself baffles me. All advertising is good advertising. Its pointless and energy ill spent.
No one is right all of the time, but everyone is right some of the time.
Tim Rumford
Without the help I got directly from Robert, my program would have failed. Near its height, three homeless human beings were helping out each week, one who had lost his leg got off the streets with a little help and compassion, others brought more food, workers from stores brought food, we cleaned up and had good relationship with the surrounding merchants whom I checked in with each week to make sure everything was OK and that I could continue.
Yes, even I disagree at times, but that does not negate the good that Huff does. Love em or hate em, they have a purpose, they serve a purpose. Why people feel the need to spend so much energy writing negative comments rather than doing something that you feel will promote change yourself baffles me. All advertising is good advertising. Its pointless and energy ill spent.
No one is right all of the time, but everyone is right some of the time.
Tim Rumford
In response to your comment of "Why people feel the need to spend so much energy writing negative comments rather than doing something that you feel will promote change yourself baffles me." I'll answer with my personal stance:
-I spend far, far less time or energy writing negative things about Huff than I do volunteering and trying to do good. Like you, I don't promote those actions on IndyBay, so you're not aware of them.
-I take the time to criticize Huff because I disagree with them, and specifically because Huff takes the time to criticize me. There is a lockstep mentality evidenced in their postings that implies that if you don't agree with them 100% then you are a part of the problem and not the solution. It's arrogant and I find it offensive. Particularly in recent months, when Robert has taken to calling anyone who disagrees with his viewpoint trolls, and suggests that if we won't give our real names then we are of the same ilk as the kkk. The reason I prefer to remain anonymous, in both my donations and my criticisms, is largely due to privacy concerns and personal druthers. I've seen the personal vendettas launched by Huff against those who voice disagreement with Huff. Emily and Neal being the most recent examples...
-I think that Huff "does no good" in the sense that I look at them in the full context of their actions and effects on our community. When I balance the negatives that they bring (polariztaion of the communities, villification of any who don't fully support their viewpoint, and being so cantankerous to the opposition that I believe Huffs actions have served to stiffen said opposition) against the positives, I would say that I view them as a wash. Similar to a man climbing a sand dune: if he moves forward 2 steps but slides back 2, I'd say he didn't go anywhere.
I think that other groups do as much or more good than Huff without the negative baggage, personal attacks, and ego gratification attached.
-I spend far, far less time or energy writing negative things about Huff than I do volunteering and trying to do good. Like you, I don't promote those actions on IndyBay, so you're not aware of them.
-I take the time to criticize Huff because I disagree with them, and specifically because Huff takes the time to criticize me. There is a lockstep mentality evidenced in their postings that implies that if you don't agree with them 100% then you are a part of the problem and not the solution. It's arrogant and I find it offensive. Particularly in recent months, when Robert has taken to calling anyone who disagrees with his viewpoint trolls, and suggests that if we won't give our real names then we are of the same ilk as the kkk. The reason I prefer to remain anonymous, in both my donations and my criticisms, is largely due to privacy concerns and personal druthers. I've seen the personal vendettas launched by Huff against those who voice disagreement with Huff. Emily and Neal being the most recent examples...
-I think that Huff "does no good" in the sense that I look at them in the full context of their actions and effects on our community. When I balance the negatives that they bring (polariztaion of the communities, villification of any who don't fully support their viewpoint, and being so cantankerous to the opposition that I believe Huffs actions have served to stiffen said opposition) against the positives, I would say that I view them as a wash. Similar to a man climbing a sand dune: if he moves forward 2 steps but slides back 2, I'd say he didn't go anywhere.
I think that other groups do as much or more good than Huff without the negative baggage, personal attacks, and ego gratification attached.
"Keep it real" sounds sincere. He is, however, misinformed, disingenuous, or simply wrong. Lest s/he complain I am making a "personal attack"--it's simply a response to his attacks on HUFF.
My attacks on Emily (Reilly) and Neal (Coonerty) are political criticisms not personal attacks. They have nothing to do with my ego or anyone else's, but their legislative activities at City Council. Politicians are responsible for their political decisions.
Both are former mayors instrumental in passing nasty anti-homeless laws. Reilly was behind making it illegal for poor people whose only shelter is their vehicle to park their vehicles at night---first in Harvey West, then on the West Side, then downtown.
Coonerty is infamous for the original Downtown Ordinances--which do not punish abusive behavior, but simply give the police massive selective enforcement powers. Holding up a sign after dark asking for anything of value is a crime.
Both are defenders of the City's Sleeping Ban, who masqueraded as "progressives" when they ran for office (seeking and securing SCAN's endorsement). These are simply facts.
Neither of them have ever posted on indybay, so they are not guilty of the anonymous sniping that "Keep it Real" is. They at least are publicly accountable (in theory) for what they've said and done. "KiR" is not.
However sincere "KiR" is, s/he's still wrong and still unwilling to back up anonymous views with a real name. This reflects on his credibility.
Trolls are not those who disagree partially but are still in agreement with fundamental civil rights assumptions (that we are entitled to sleep legally somewhere at night, that we all should have the right to use public spaces without selective harassment, that homeless people need and deserve the right to public restrooms). Trolls don't agree and want to malign those of us who raise the issues in a way that ruffles the feathers of the politicians. They don't want to discuss or compare strategies, or present alternatives. They seek to discredit activists--usually with appeals to prejudice, false claims, or straight abuse.
I'm not aware that anyone who's ever posted here under a true name has been punished for doing so by anyone in HUFF. So this claim is complete bullshit.
By all means, contribute to the community in your own way. But are you helping to end laws that criminalize the poor? Or obstruct that effort?
Come to the HUFF meeting tomorrow to chat, if you'd like-- 9:30 AM at the Sub Rosa Cafe on Pacific Ave. Good library there too.
My attacks on Emily (Reilly) and Neal (Coonerty) are political criticisms not personal attacks. They have nothing to do with my ego or anyone else's, but their legislative activities at City Council. Politicians are responsible for their political decisions.
Both are former mayors instrumental in passing nasty anti-homeless laws. Reilly was behind making it illegal for poor people whose only shelter is their vehicle to park their vehicles at night---first in Harvey West, then on the West Side, then downtown.
Coonerty is infamous for the original Downtown Ordinances--which do not punish abusive behavior, but simply give the police massive selective enforcement powers. Holding up a sign after dark asking for anything of value is a crime.
Both are defenders of the City's Sleeping Ban, who masqueraded as "progressives" when they ran for office (seeking and securing SCAN's endorsement). These are simply facts.
Neither of them have ever posted on indybay, so they are not guilty of the anonymous sniping that "Keep it Real" is. They at least are publicly accountable (in theory) for what they've said and done. "KiR" is not.
However sincere "KiR" is, s/he's still wrong and still unwilling to back up anonymous views with a real name. This reflects on his credibility.
Trolls are not those who disagree partially but are still in agreement with fundamental civil rights assumptions (that we are entitled to sleep legally somewhere at night, that we all should have the right to use public spaces without selective harassment, that homeless people need and deserve the right to public restrooms). Trolls don't agree and want to malign those of us who raise the issues in a way that ruffles the feathers of the politicians. They don't want to discuss or compare strategies, or present alternatives. They seek to discredit activists--usually with appeals to prejudice, false claims, or straight abuse.
I'm not aware that anyone who's ever posted here under a true name has been punished for doing so by anyone in HUFF. So this claim is complete bullshit.
By all means, contribute to the community in your own way. But are you helping to end laws that criminalize the poor? Or obstruct that effort?
Come to the HUFF meeting tomorrow to chat, if you'd like-- 9:30 AM at the Sub Rosa Cafe on Pacific Ave. Good library there too.
Robert, we have different interpretations of "political criticisms" vs. "personal attacks".
In my world, it's a personal attack when you protest repeatedly at a persons place of business rather than their political office or appearances. Huff has harassed both Riley and Coonerty ad nauseum at their personal businesses.
In my world, using mocking names to deride your opposition is a personal attack. "Lyin Goonerty" is a personal attack. I could go back through your and Becky's posts and find dozens more such examples.
In my world, calling someone a "klanster" because they don't support your agenda of removing the sleeping ban is a personal attack.
I prefer my world to yours, and I do believe that, here in Santa Cruz, more people live in my world than yours.
(And in regards to anominity? You have no credibility in your mewling about people not offering up their true identity until you stop happily accepting anonymous praise/agreement with your viewpoint and only complain about the anonymous dissent. Taking the sugar but complaining about the vinegar makes you a hypocrite.)
In my world, it's a personal attack when you protest repeatedly at a persons place of business rather than their political office or appearances. Huff has harassed both Riley and Coonerty ad nauseum at their personal businesses.
In my world, using mocking names to deride your opposition is a personal attack. "Lyin Goonerty" is a personal attack. I could go back through your and Becky's posts and find dozens more such examples.
In my world, calling someone a "klanster" because they don't support your agenda of removing the sleeping ban is a personal attack.
I prefer my world to yours, and I do believe that, here in Santa Cruz, more people live in my world than yours.
(And in regards to anominity? You have no credibility in your mewling about people not offering up their true identity until you stop happily accepting anonymous praise/agreement with your viewpoint and only complain about the anonymous dissent. Taking the sugar but complaining about the vinegar makes you a hypocrite.)
Robert, I choose to post anonymously. It is my right. Call me a troll if that makes you feel better.
Your attacks are not "political criticisms", they are mean spirited and show your true colors. You are no better than a school yard bully taunting someone by calling them names. When you are not center stage, you act like a 3 year old and throw a hissy fit (prime example being your Nazi salute at a City Council meeting). These actions are why HUFF has lost its respect within Santa Cruz and personally, you lost mine at that meeting.
I will continue to help those in need without making a mockery out of those I disagree with.
Your attacks are not "political criticisms", they are mean spirited and show your true colors. You are no better than a school yard bully taunting someone by calling them names. When you are not center stage, you act like a 3 year old and throw a hissy fit (prime example being your Nazi salute at a City Council meeting). These actions are why HUFF has lost its respect within Santa Cruz and personally, you lost mine at that meeting.
I will continue to help those in need without making a mockery out of those I disagree with.
Robert doesn't use his real name, so who is he to talk?
My real last name is Norse--as all these trolls know. My family name (for certain limited legal purposes) is "Kahn".
I point this out for the benefit of those who may be new to this discussion, nor for the trolls who only use the argument to avoid the real issues. They don't want t address these, of course. Who wants to be in the position of defending human rights abuses? That's why Coonerty avoids public statements on these issues, doesn't present stats, etc.
Lampooning the names of politicians who cater to bigotry and fear is not a "personal attack", but a traditional part of political dialogue. It's far less abusive than harassing people at midnight for sleeping, when they have no legal place to go, or running them off Pacific Avenue because merchants are uneasy.
Picketing politicians at their businesses--where that's an easier place to find them than at their offices, where it's the source of their campaign revenue, and where it a phony progressive "icon" (at least in the case of Coonerty) is quite appropriate.
The trollsters will generally continue to snipe anonymously and off-topic and in defense of their political allies. Nothing new here. The key to identifying them as trolls is that they don't further the struggle to restore human rights locally, but simply attack those trying to do so.
Please somebody stop me before I react again to their endless (anonymous) hissing and spitting.
I point this out for the benefit of those who may be new to this discussion, nor for the trolls who only use the argument to avoid the real issues. They don't want t address these, of course. Who wants to be in the position of defending human rights abuses? That's why Coonerty avoids public statements on these issues, doesn't present stats, etc.
Lampooning the names of politicians who cater to bigotry and fear is not a "personal attack", but a traditional part of political dialogue. It's far less abusive than harassing people at midnight for sleeping, when they have no legal place to go, or running them off Pacific Avenue because merchants are uneasy.
Picketing politicians at their businesses--where that's an easier place to find them than at their offices, where it's the source of their campaign revenue, and where it a phony progressive "icon" (at least in the case of Coonerty) is quite appropriate.
The trollsters will generally continue to snipe anonymously and off-topic and in defense of their political allies. Nothing new here. The key to identifying them as trolls is that they don't further the struggle to restore human rights locally, but simply attack those trying to do so.
Please somebody stop me before I react again to their endless (anonymous) hissing and spitting.
Thanks for clarifying your rules of engagement and endorsement of name calling, villification, and harassment at ones place of office.
..yet you still wonder why people stay anonymous and don't believe you when you promise you won't do it to them while at the same time you're doing it to others? Hmmm........
..yet you still wonder why people stay anonymous and don't believe you when you promise you won't do it to them while at the same time you're doing it to others? Hmmm........
Again, my point was what HUff does. Mocking polticians is a historical passtime. Single cartoons have changed our political landscape.
In my world its fine to protest the bookshop that is owned by the two most powerful people in the shaping of downtown. My mother was a merchant before the earthquake for 20 years and even then I remember her cringing at his name. She still does. Would I still be there on Sundays protesting, no, but only because I think its energy ill spent right now. BUt thats where the small free speech zone sits.
Using names against politicians is fine, this is America. You have your rights and so does Robert. Nothing you have said takes away from the points I made. If you listen to Roberts show, he constantly says that Connerty and others he disagrees with are genuinely nice people whom he strongly disagrees with.
I don't have the physical energy to fully debate with you. Nor is there much of a point in it. But I could name 50 things Huff and Robert have done that he never mentions nor does HUFF feel the need to, even under such harsh criticism. Yes, those that criticize the powers that be will always be a target to be also criticized and people have that right. You have a right to do so. But I hope you realize there is more to the picture than you see. In my view the points you make do not negate the good things HUFF does. Again, everyone's is right some of the time. Everyone is wrong some of the time. But do you have the humility to say when HUFF does something right?
Ryan and his ilk have lied, at least to me, and created a myriad of laws that do smack of fascism. I understand that there is a difference between Nazi Fascism and other forms of Fascism. However, Free speech zones ( right in front of the bookshop) 15 minute bans on using public space ( parking lots), Nightime sleeping bans, nighttime blanket bans, stepped up harrasment of people who feed and the poor and selective enforcement of these laws -- all these things remind me of fascism.
These laws have done absolutely nothing in solving problems. Money could and can be better spent. INDEPENDANT trained Out reach workers instead of snitches would be a start.
The argument about Robert not using his name is ridicules, everyone knows who he is. He has used that name for decades.
If people tried, just a little to focus on the good things HUFF points out and does, maybe more of it would happen.
I have made my point to nuseuam. I do not have the time , health nor the energy to reply again soon.
Tim Rumford
In my world its fine to protest the bookshop that is owned by the two most powerful people in the shaping of downtown. My mother was a merchant before the earthquake for 20 years and even then I remember her cringing at his name. She still does. Would I still be there on Sundays protesting, no, but only because I think its energy ill spent right now. BUt thats where the small free speech zone sits.
Using names against politicians is fine, this is America. You have your rights and so does Robert. Nothing you have said takes away from the points I made. If you listen to Roberts show, he constantly says that Connerty and others he disagrees with are genuinely nice people whom he strongly disagrees with.
I don't have the physical energy to fully debate with you. Nor is there much of a point in it. But I could name 50 things Huff and Robert have done that he never mentions nor does HUFF feel the need to, even under such harsh criticism. Yes, those that criticize the powers that be will always be a target to be also criticized and people have that right. You have a right to do so. But I hope you realize there is more to the picture than you see. In my view the points you make do not negate the good things HUFF does. Again, everyone's is right some of the time. Everyone is wrong some of the time. But do you have the humility to say when HUFF does something right?
Ryan and his ilk have lied, at least to me, and created a myriad of laws that do smack of fascism. I understand that there is a difference between Nazi Fascism and other forms of Fascism. However, Free speech zones ( right in front of the bookshop) 15 minute bans on using public space ( parking lots), Nightime sleeping bans, nighttime blanket bans, stepped up harrasment of people who feed and the poor and selective enforcement of these laws -- all these things remind me of fascism.
These laws have done absolutely nothing in solving problems. Money could and can be better spent. INDEPENDANT trained Out reach workers instead of snitches would be a start.
The argument about Robert not using his name is ridicules, everyone knows who he is. He has used that name for decades.
If people tried, just a little to focus on the good things HUFF points out and does, maybe more of it would happen.
I have made my point to nuseuam. I do not have the time , health nor the energy to reply again soon.
Tim Rumford
- "The argument about Robert not using his name is ridicules, everyone knows who he is. He has used that name for decades. " -- quoted from Tim
Until it was noted above, I had no idea Robert Norse was not his real name. Talk about calling the kettle black!
Until it was noted above, I had no idea Robert Norse was not his real name. Talk about calling the kettle black!
If your a lifetime resident and have not read the name argument before, you must be new to this subject. Just look at nearly any post about HUFF going back 15 years, its there. Where have you been? What does it matter? He has publicly explained it before. It's a distraction from real issues. The discussion was about laws and rights. But as always everyone distracts with ignorant arguments that have no real purpose, only distracting from any meaningful dialog that could occur about the real issues.
I have mixed feelings, but these are weak attacks that serve no purpose, from both sides.
Regardless if you post with your name or not means little to me. Making a valid argument is far more important.
The pace of comments and useless arguments prove that HUFF has far more power than they may even realize. Those that seem to oppose them are simply empowering them. Those veering off subject that support them hand the power back.
Get it together folks.
I have mixed feelings, but these are weak attacks that serve no purpose, from both sides.
Regardless if you post with your name or not means little to me. Making a valid argument is far more important.
The pace of comments and useless arguments prove that HUFF has far more power than they may even realize. Those that seem to oppose them are simply empowering them. Those veering off subject that support them hand the power back.
Get it together folks.
Because I usually only quickly skim posts related to HUFF and/or Robert. Most of us "life long residents" know Robert and Becky of HUFF and pretty much ignore them (as do most people). I didn't even know his last name (or care) until his little Nazi stunt a few years back.
I peek back here only to see what other garbage Robert will call us .
I peek back here only to see what other garbage Robert will call us .
"Mocking polticians is a historical passtime."
Tim
And some people get off on watching surveillance videos of people peeing. Some people have even looked at them on the internet.
So what?
Tim
And some people get off on watching surveillance videos of people peeing. Some people have even looked at them on the internet.
So what?
In Santa Cruz, it is a crime to sit too close to a trash can.
Photos taken on November 15, 2008.
Photos taken on November 15, 2008.
According to word on the street, the solar trash compacter in front of the Del Mar Theatre serves to prevent people from eating popcorn out of a trash can. Sitting too close to the trash compacter is against the law.
Then get off your lazy butt and MOVE. I doubt you got the tickets for sitting next to the can. I would tend to guess there is much more to this story. I find that if you are polite to the officers, they will be polite back. Be an asshole and see what it gets you.
For those who want to hear the actual words of those who've been selectively ticketed, check out Bagthrobespierre's Broadsides on Free Radio Santa Cruz tomorrow morning (Sunday 11-23) at 101.1 FM, http://www.freakradio.org.
Manthri Srinath, the owner of Lulu Carpenter's, is reportedly at it again--filing a false police report of trespass against a female homeless customer--shortly after she bought a cup of coffee and a bagel there. This was after the police confiscated the shopping cart she was using to transport her bags, leaving her standing in front of the Cinema 9 Theater surrounded by her stuff.
A little-used "unattended property" ordinance was used against Dreamcatcher, an artist in front of Borders, today or yesterday when he asked Mia to watch his art supplies and survival gear while he went to use the restroom.
For those interested in reclaiming public space at the Metro Transit Center, some of us intend to do just that on Wednesday at 11:30 AM after the HUFF meeting at the Sub Rose cafe. (For background on prior harassment see the main story above and check out recent radio shows archived at http://www.huffsantacruz.org )
Also planned: after the Saturday December 6th Human Rights Fair at Louden Nelson, a sleep-out either at City Hall, or downtown to remind us all that the Sleeping Ban--not a fit law for L.A. San Diego, Fresno, Richmond, or Palo Alto--is hardly a bit law for Santa Cruz. The right to sleep legally somewhere is a human right.
Manthri Srinath, the owner of Lulu Carpenter's, is reportedly at it again--filing a false police report of trespass against a female homeless customer--shortly after she bought a cup of coffee and a bagel there. This was after the police confiscated the shopping cart she was using to transport her bags, leaving her standing in front of the Cinema 9 Theater surrounded by her stuff.
A little-used "unattended property" ordinance was used against Dreamcatcher, an artist in front of Borders, today or yesterday when he asked Mia to watch his art supplies and survival gear while he went to use the restroom.
For those interested in reclaiming public space at the Metro Transit Center, some of us intend to do just that on Wednesday at 11:30 AM after the HUFF meeting at the Sub Rose cafe. (For background on prior harassment see the main story above and check out recent radio shows archived at http://www.huffsantacruz.org )
Also planned: after the Saturday December 6th Human Rights Fair at Louden Nelson, a sleep-out either at City Hall, or downtown to remind us all that the Sleeping Ban--not a fit law for L.A. San Diego, Fresno, Richmond, or Palo Alto--is hardly a bit law for Santa Cruz. The right to sleep legally somewhere is a human right.
I've seen that homeless woman. She is a mess and was distrubing customers. And just for the record, she was using a STOLEN shopping cart dude. That woman needs help and I hope she can get it. I tried to get her to go to the shelter, but she said she didn't like it there.
To the anonymous "someone who cares":
Did you offer to store her three large suitcases? Which shelter did you try to get her to go to? Are you aware there's shelter tonight for less than 10% of those who are sleeping outside? Do you have some trouble posting your name on this thread?
Feel free to call in tomorrow with the answers on the radio--if you're actually speaking accurately.
Others are invited to check out the Coonerty watch in front of the Mayor's Bookstore on Pacific Avenue. 2 PM tomorrow. As the weather and economy get nastier, so do the merchants and the police.
Did you offer to store her three large suitcases? Which shelter did you try to get her to go to? Are you aware there's shelter tonight for less than 10% of those who are sleeping outside? Do you have some trouble posting your name on this thread?
Feel free to call in tomorrow with the answers on the radio--if you're actually speaking accurately.
Others are invited to check out the Coonerty watch in front of the Mayor's Bookstore on Pacific Avenue. 2 PM tomorrow. As the weather and economy get nastier, so do the merchants and the police.
Why would I call in? So you can make a mockery out of me as you do everyone else who disagrees with you. Forget it. You go on and 'protest', that seems to all you're good at. I heard you have money. If that's true, why don't you sponsor to build another shelter?
Because that would involve some level of personal sacrifice. And we can't have that, can we?
Robert, Just for YOU, I posted my real name. I've read this thread and find you to be an elitist. In your mind, anyone who dares to post that they help the homeless must be lying. You challenge people who choose to post anonymously to call in to your little radio show. I've never listened, but just reading your posts, I've never call in. If you are this condensing in print, I can only imagine what you are like on the radio.
Bravo to those who help the less fortunate and do so anonymously!
Bravo to those who help the less fortunate and do so anonymously!
Hey Rachel:
Kudos for your honesty.
I have no problem with people who help the homeless.
In fact, most people who do (but don't active engage in protest against the Sleeping Ban) will acknowledge that it's an abusive law that criminalize poor people for what they must do each night.
As for my being condescending to you if you called in, well--I suggest you try and see. You might be surprised.
But however you regard me and the organizations I work with, by all means go out, form your own groups, deal with the crappy treatment that poor people receive from merchants, residents, and police. Your help is definitely needed.
Kudos for your honesty.
I have no problem with people who help the homeless.
In fact, most people who do (but don't active engage in protest against the Sleeping Ban) will acknowledge that it's an abusive law that criminalize poor people for what they must do each night.
As for my being condescending to you if you called in, well--I suggest you try and see. You might be surprised.
But however you regard me and the organizations I work with, by all means go out, form your own groups, deal with the crappy treatment that poor people receive from merchants, residents, and police. Your help is definitely needed.
"These "officer profiles" are an effort to keep a log of abuses of power of individual officers. If there is an officer that should be listed here, if a correction to the information we have needs to be made or if you would like to report abuses of power of a particular officer contact us or submit a report of police abuse with the online form."
http://redwoodcurtaincopwatch.net/officerprofiles
http://redwoodcurtaincopwatch.net/officerprofiles
I'd love to see someone working on a website that posts specific complaints (and commendations) of local cops. Anyone interested.
The Sentinel attack on the homeless on Pacific Avenue mentioned in the lead article (“...reported hate speech by merchants--such as that reported in the Wednesday Santa Cruz Sentinel”) as of late November was no longer available either as an article in the archives nor as a subject of discussion in the comments. The original address (http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_10962547 ) no longer leads to the discussion.
Tireless sleuths have uncovered the hidden commentary (now 690 comments long!) now to be found at http://www.topix.com/city/santa-cruz-ca/2008/11/cleaning-up-downtown-santa-cruz . The original article is still missing from the archives. I called writer Genevieve Bookwalter and left her a message asking her why the censorship, but got no answer.
Two more recent Sentinel “articles” with lots of attacks on homeless people and advocates can be found at: http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-cruz-sentinel/TTT7KP02I571A6U3L (“Santa Cruz police will be more present downtown during holiday shopping season”) & http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-cruz-sentinel/TT20VFJPEAMUGM3U9/p14 (“Local Woman Driven to Keep Homeless Warm”).
The Sentinel attack on the homeless on Pacific Avenue mentioned in the lead article (“...reported hate speech by merchants--such as that reported in the Wednesday Santa Cruz Sentinel”) as of late November was no longer available either as an article in the archives nor as a subject of discussion in the comments. The original address (http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_10962547 ) no longer leads to the discussion.
Tireless sleuths have uncovered the hidden commentary (now 690 comments long!) now to be found at http://www.topix.com/city/santa-cruz-ca/2008/11/cleaning-up-downtown-santa-cruz . The original article is still missing from the archives. I called writer Genevieve Bookwalter and left her a message asking her why the censorship, but got no answer.
Two more recent Sentinel “articles” with lots of attacks on homeless people and advocates can be found at: http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-cruz-sentinel/TTT7KP02I571A6U3L (“Santa Cruz police will be more present downtown during holiday shopping season”) & http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-cruz-sentinel/TT20VFJPEAMUGM3U9/p14 (“Local Woman Driven to Keep Homeless Warm”).
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