"NoKill" animal shelter gurus fail the nation's animals

yes, I think there is still more people could do via simple daily acts, donations, and word-of-mouth. I also think there have been a few misguided acts by local advocates which might have prevented greater effectiveness in preventing killings.
Last year there was a bill which would require spaying for all dogs over a few months of age, and only purebreds would be allowed to apply for a license for breeding. I and many other people didn't support this because the government shouldn't recognize AKC breeds (which can be sickly), and because they were going too young, and requiring high priced permits. If they had gone with just a spaying bill at 10 months of age, most people might have supported it.
Secondly, I've heard that San Francisco shelters and some other shelters do home inspections, and require that dogs aren't left home by themselves all day. I suspect this cuts a lot of potential dog adopters out. Yes, some of those potential adopters would be poor, some might bring the dog back, but many actually would provide an adequate home.

You're right about people like Winograd and Boks. They can write and talk but can't get real things done. They lie about their "success" until the ugly truth is uncovered. Then they blame everyone else for the failure. Winograd failed in Rancho Cucamonga and Philadelphia. Boks failed in Arizona, New York and now Los Angeles. Read this article.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/01/23/18474388.php

We don't need any more gurus who give recommendations in a perfect world. "Build a new shelter, recruit 1,000 volunteers, find 300 free vets, hire 200 new employees, pay for 250,000 more surgeries..." Nice recommendations but how do you do it? Where's the money? Who will do this work? How do you motivate the employees to do their jobs? How do you fire them if they don't?

It's difficult to get past the first sentence of the above poorly researched and poorly written piece. Here's what the HSUS actually says:
"Every year, between six and eight million dogs and cats enter U.S. shelters; some three to four million of these animals are euthanized because there are not enough homes for them." http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/pet_overpopulation_and_ownership_statistics/the_crisis_of_pet_overpopulation.html

HSUS doesn't say 8 to 10 million dogs and cats are killed each year for lack of homes, they say it's 3 to 4 million. And the numbers are dropping every year. In the 1970's there were over 20 million killed each year.

Ed Boks is not a practitioner of No Kill. What Ed Boks practices is whatever will advance Ed Boks' career. He flip-flops more often than Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton combined. Boks flipped into being an animal rights extremist when he took the AC director job in Los Angeles. A smart career move, given that the city there is dominated by animal rights extremists and terrorists. Boks now advocates for the draconian and counterproductive mandates on pet owners that some animal rights extremists favor, while attempting to use the now popular language from the No Kill movement for window dressing. The thing is, Boks is a liar, what he is doing is not No Kill. http://nathanwinograd.blogspot.com/2007/12/false-hope-in-los-angeles.html

Furthermore, real progress cannot happen when draconian mandates are imposed on pet owners. It's impossible. http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/pdf/mandatorylaws.pdf

Get the facts. Richard Avanzino and Nathan Winograd (not Ed Boks) are the nation's leading advocates for the No Kill movement.

Richard Avanzino's programs worked in San Francisco, and he's taking it to communities throughout the nation via Maddie's Fund.

Nathan Winograd's programs through the No Kill Advocacy Center have worked in Tompkins County NY, Washoe Nevada, and Charlottesville, VA.

There has been a campaign of smear and lies to discredit the No Kill movement ever since it proved itself in the 1990s in San Francisco. The shelter status quo, and their advocates like HSUS and PETA that depend on high rates of shelter killing to prop up their $fundraising$ efforts, are the groups behind this smear campaign. Winograd's book "Redemption" documents it. The book is highly recommended for anyone who wishes to understand the programs that really lead to improvements in shelter statistics, and the entrenched forces that are working hard to hold back progress.

Nathan,

Who cares if eight to ten million or three to four million animals are being killed. It's still too many.

The only thing I agree with you about is Ed Boks' failures in Arizona, New York and now Los Angeles. He is a charlatan, a snake oil salesman. He still sells the same "nokill" that you sell. You've both done the lecture circuit, have written articles, had articles written about you, speak to animal activists, go to City meetings, sue cities over poorly run shelters. The only difference is that Boks actually gets in the trenches and tries to do nokill in the real world. Yes, he fails then lies about it but so would you. In fact, so have you. Philadelphia was a total failure. Your plans only work in a perfect world where all employees do what they are told, the public spays all their pets and there is an infinite amount of money for all the programs.

San Francisco is a small shelter serving a small area with lots of money. No comparison to Los Angeles or Philadelphia. You are selling people a dream that cannot exist in the real world. Find some way to make your plans work. Just telling someone to eat less and exercise more to lose weight won't make everyone in the world thin. It's not that easy.

I forgot. You claim LA's problems are animal rights activists and terrorists. Who encourages and instructs these terrorists to attack the Mayor's sister, the deputy mayor, chief of staff, Ed Boks' home...? You!!! You just want a consulting contract in Los Angeles. You're willing to use terrorists to force the City to hire you. After you attacked Philadelphia and LA County, why would any city in their right mind hire you? Your plan will fail and you'll attack the City. Who wants that? You need to find another career. Everyone knows you're a phoney just like Ed Boks.

I have a proposition for you Nathan. How about you write a nokill plan for LA City for free. You give them the plan and if LA becomes nokill overnight as you promise, they will give you your fee. Whadya say? Up for a challenge? Or do you prefer to sit at your desk and just tsk tsk everyone?

I'm honored that you think I'm Nathan Winograd, but I'm not and I've actually never met the man ;-)

San Francisco is hardly "small". It is a city of over 3/4 million people. No Kill succeeded there despite the fact that its shelters faced the same challenges that many other urban shelters face, including huge impound numbers, chronic under funding, large feral cat populations, and dog fighting rings. The public in San Francisco started donating to help support animal sheltering AFTER they saw firsthand that their public shelter was well run and was having unprecedented success saving lives. Success brings community involvement, which brings more success.

That's an interesting twist on the anti- No-Kill smear campaign, trying to link Winograd with terrorism. Why don't you name yourself if you are going to engage in slander & libel? Obviously you won't, because you know that Winograd, an attorney and former criminal prosecutor, would sue you and win. The truth is the perfect defense against a defamation, slander, or libel lawsuit, but you haven't got the truth on your side so you cannot afford to reveal your name. Nice try though.

The animal rights terrorists in Los Angeles are not egged on by anyone who is part of the No Kill movement. If you would educate yourself, you would know that No Kill is a non-violent and non-coercive movement. AR terrorists are egged on and defended by PETA and other extremists within the AR movement. If you want to know what Winograd thinks about PETA, read this http://nathanwinograd.blogspot.com/2008/01/petas-grizzliest-year-ever.html

Nathan, you blog and comment about yourself all over the internet. So does your wife. Who else would be promoting you and linking to your site? Who else threatens to sue people who don't support you? You, Nathan.

There is no denying that you speak with Pam Ferdin who runs ADL's stopthekilling campaign. That campaign's main purpose is to get you a consulting contract with LA. It's in every one of their alerts "hire Nathan Winograd, fire Ed Boks." You bragged about controlling Pam and her "little activists" to people. Her husband is Jerry Vlasak who supports murder. He is a press officer for ALF. You are using the terrorists to make money on the backs of dead animals. How do you sleep at night?

You can write another book, give more seminars, attack HSUS but it will never change the truth. You don't know how to make shelters nokill in the real world. Just telling them to "stop the killing" just causes animals to be overcrowded and sick. Look at Philly for proof of this animal cruelty you created. You need to sit down and try to figure out how to actually make shelters nokill. Words alone will never save animals lives. Actions matter.

This morning I was at the vet's office and met a woman who was bringing in a sweet female cattledog rescue to have her spayed and vaccinated on her own dime because our area's only no kill shelter facility and multiple no-kill rescues that operate out of foster homes in the area had refused to take her. The dog has an excellent temperament... I didn't run a temperament test, but I'd bet she'd ace it easily.

The no-kill option is to simply to not let dogs through the door if there is not an open space, or if there is a health or behavior issue. What this means is that these dogs must go to animal control or another shelter that does euthanize and that shelter. As a result the other shelter takes the heat for euthanizing the dog while the no kill sheter gets to continue to tell the public it doesn't euthanize healthy dogs.

In fact, no-kill shelters do euthanize healthy dogs, they just don't do it by their own hands. By saying, "There's no room at our Inn" they are saying, "Take him to the animal control facility or the shelter." And there, she will be placed for adoption or euthanized depending on the reality and fate that goes along with those decisions.

Yes, there are many things that can be done to reduce euthanasia. But so far in this country a No Kill shelter is just a shelter who lets other shelters do the dirty work. I know of some wonderful no-kill shelters and I am not saying they don't have a place. But the truth is that as long as healthy, friendly dogs are killed at animal control, no organization should rest on their no-kill laurels.

I cannot speak for Winograd, he speaks for himself.

You are welcome to disagree with anyone. It makes for good healthy debates. Defamation, slander, and libel are counterproductive to healthy debate and are not protected speech. That's what your accusations linking Winograd to terrorism amount to. You are a coward to make charges like that while hiding your true identity.

No Kill has been proven in the real world in San Francisco, Washoe County NV, Tompkins County NY, and Charlottesville VA. 86% of dogs are being saved in San Francisco and over 90% of dogs are being saved in the other three communities. You can read about the success in Washoe County NV here (scroll down) http://www.nevadahumanesociety.org/

No Kill communities don't say "there's no room at the inn". Some individual private shelters do that and call themselves "no kill", but No Kill communities do not turn away admissions. No Kill communities have open admission public shelters yet still save nearly all dogs and cats that are impounded. Hopelessly ill dogs and cats as well as truly vicious dogs are humanely euthanized. No Kill communities do not kill for population control.

You can deny the truth all you want in order to keep the conflict $fundraising$ machine running full tilt, but No Kill has been repeatedly proven to work in the real world, in real American communities.

I did not say all nokill plans fail. I just said Winograd's plan failed Rancho Cucamonga and Philadelphia. Boks has never written a plan for LA. He just plain failed LA and the other shelters.

Only Winograd threatens to sue honest people for slander, libel, defamation all the time. He's threatened to sue people in Rancho because they didn't support him. He failed Rancho.

Winograd bragged in writing that he could get ADL's activists to force the Mayor of LA to hire him. There have been conversations even very recently between Nathan and ADL. He works directly with these people using them to make money for himself. Shame on Nathan Winograd.

As a previous shelter manager of a shelter Nathan Winograd "saved" and a board member of an SPCA in a neighboring community, I absolutely believe that the "No Kill" movement has failed us in Tompkins Co.- once touted as the "safest place in the US for animals"
I was the manager at the Ithaca SPCA two years before Nathan was hired. Under my management, the euthanasia rate for all animals (not just those deemed adoptable) decreased by about 50%. We were developing programs to achieve "no-kill" before he came along. In fact, the board resolved to stop euthanizing BEFORE Nathan was even working at the shelter.
What he did do was raise money and he built a new shelter (which we had already been planning and had already bought the property for). However, this shelter is not sustainable for the shelter. They cannot afford the operate it- its too big. Now, Nathan has gone away, the donors have dwindled and they are in a danger of losing their animal control contracts as they have had to ask for large increases in money from the towns and city.
At my shelter in a neighboring county, we have been lured into "trying to keep up with the Jones'" attitude. We tried to change our euthanasia policy to be similar, but we didn't have the programs to keep the animals moving, and we ended up with a warehouse situation and we couldn't care for the number of cats in our care. We now have more stringent euthanasia guidelines- including euthanizing for issues such as dental disease and poor socialability.
"No-Kill" is a euphemism for "limited admission". Animals aren't truly safe if they are being dumped on animal control or left in the street. I personally want to be part of an organization that accepts all homeless animals in the community and tried to help them- even if that means some will be euthanized. There are worse things in this world than euthanasia- I have seen them. I choose to euthanize over leaving an animal to suffer in a cage, starve on the street, or suffer from a treatable- yet un-affordable to care for disease.
You can limit the number of animals being euthanised in your shelter by creating programs to increase adoptions and reduce the number of animals coming in. It is not, IMO, a front-loaded proclamation- it the the result of sustainable programs within the shelter and in the community. Once the population is stable and the community sees your results- the money will come to help you help more animals be adoptable. We are far from this in Chemung Co. It is far easier to get a cat from your neighbor than the shelter and far easier to just leave your cat to breed recklessly than get her spayed. This is where we need to work- not making sweeping proclamations about not killing animals.

So Nathan Winograd failed in Ithica? He tells everyone that he made that place "nokill." It was the first "nokill" shelter in the nation. He said it's still his pride and joy. I had a feeling that probably wasn't true, like everything else he boasts.

I know he failed in Rancho. The euth rate went up, there is overcrowding, diseased animals. They no longer want to let the public into the shelter unless they can prove they are looking for their dog.

We know he failed in Philadelphia. I saw the video, read the articles. I heard some news from Nevada that things aren't as peachy as he states. He knows how to tell people what to do but not how to do it. And this guy is selling a book on nokill sheltering? That's as bad as Boks "Dirty little secrets" article coming out when he was actually failing in Arizona and New York.

Nathan Winograd and Ed Boks have given nokill a bad name. They have abused the term just to make money for themselves. They have no problem lying and cheating their way to fame. Now they will only be remembered in infamy.

I am a Guru just like Nathan. I'm a weight loss Guru. Everyone, eat less, exercise more. If you don't lose weight, it's your own darn fault for not doing as I say, fattie. The world should be skinny overnight. Where do I get my check? Can being a Guru really be this easy?

How about this. I am the Guru of world peace. Okay, everyone, just get along with each other, okay? Now where's my Nobel peace prize? and check? If anyone says I'm not a Guru, I will sue you because I was an attorney even though my license isn't active any more.

Nathan basically takes credit for things that were already in place and done before he came along. According to him, our shelter was slaughtering animals before he came in and saved the day. The truth was, the shelter manager in charge at the time of his hire had not euthanised an adoptable animal for 9 months before Nathan ever set foot in the shelter. This was due to programs well in place before she was manager. It was aggressive spay/neuter- all animals were S/N before adoption- long before Nathan came and this great shelter he takes credit for building was already planned and the land purchased before he was hired.
It burns me to no end that he takes full credit for rescuing our organization from the backwards locals who were massacring animals.
His no-kill shelter is falling apart now due to bad planning and lack of funding- but he doesn't care because he's gone on to bigger things. I don't see him coming in to fix things.

Shelters that succeed in becoming NoKill or LoKill can do so by only admitting puppies/kittens and young dogs/cats. They close the door on older animals and those with medical concerns. They are driven by adoption fees to succeed. If this were the case with all shelters, they would all be NoKill because most people want to adopt younger, healthy animals. But what about the others? People are to blame for this problem and NoKill shelters adds to the problems.

Nathan Winograd told me to my face that Ithaca was killing most animals before he went there and fixed things. He does take all credit for Ithaca. I had no idea that wasn't true. Of course I also believed Ed Boks when he told me he made Maricopa the first nokill shelter in the nation. He was killing 72% of all animals at the time. That's not nokill. Why do these people play on our heart strings and lie so much?

It burns me. I put ALOT of work into saving those animals and so did the manager after me. She was the one that stopped killing animals in Ithaca- not Nathan. Then, he fired her- he got rid of her position! What shelter gets rid of a shelter manager position!?!
Whenever I read anything by him or hear him speak- it makes me sick. I know he's still taking credit for our work and countless others out there who are doing a damn good job trying to fix the problem. But, he brings in money and press... and people believe him.
This shelter in Ithaca is in serious trouble. Attached is a posting from a local cat rescue blog- the newspaper article is no longer viable.

It didn't work in SF. They turned many animals away and then they went to SF Animal Care and Control (open admission) where they had to do the dirty work. So they just passed the buck.

I have seen first hand DOGS getting turned away at the Nevada Humane Society in Reno. I have also seen sick animals die in thier cages of panleuk (parvo for cats). I have seen Pit Bulls get turned away because one of the mgrs has said the "board will not let us take them." I asume she meant the Humane Society board but it could have just been some board on the floor because according to the " Real Board" they have never said such a thing. I have seen a sign put up in front of the Humane Society stating " if you surrender an animal it will cause an animal to be killed at animal control" This was put up by an employee.
So when you preach " no kill" I get upset because I am the one watching these animals suffer every day! They were never meant to stay in a cage for months on end and some even a year or longer. This is called jail!
I am not saying we should just kill everything after a week but sometimes I think and I know hundreds probably thousands of people in our community think the same way, there is a time when you have to let one of them go and make room for another animal to have a chance. If a dog does not get adoptd in the first month, chances are it won't and if it does it probably has so many problems at this point it will keep on getting returned.
I have spoke with people that work at the Humane Society and at Animal control and neither of them like to kills animals. But is it better to watch them go kennel crazy or die slow and painful. Is that what you call no kill? I call that the worst death.
In Washoe County we have one of the lowest EUTHANASIA rates in the country and we should be proud of that. I don't thank Nathan Winograd for that I thank the TAX PAYERS for granting this great new and much larger building so that we have more room for our animals. This shelter is twice the size as the ols AC or NHS put together so if you think about it you can come to the obviouse conclusion.
So I say Nathan go home and take your Bonney with you. THANK YOU tax payers for makeing our shelter what it is and can be.

Keep doing what you are doing, be honest; there are no quick fixes, the person from Nevada gave you the straight dope about our situation. It is not good here, one lady was harrased beyond belief for speaking up for the animals. The dogs are recycled and the cats just stay. All the volunteers are afraid to speak out now. Most of the people who used to come often and bring their kids have stopped coming, and the load per volunteer gets heavier, and the dogs are harder to manage because of stress. It would be nice for anyone, to never have the death of a living creature on their hands, but not with this "plan " NHS is turning away animals, and it is doing really pushy campaigns to get the dogs out the door. You are now linked to rgj.com mostlydogs and the last honest person who was linked there had to quit accepting posts due to hate mail. I hope you stay up and running and check on San Antonio and King County.

Fact is that Winogard was the cause of the firing of all the management staff of NHS. He didn't care how much experience or education in sheltering that staff had, his desire was to reduce the budget. Some employees had been at the shelter for 5, 10, 15, 20 years and were dedicated to their jobs, the animals and furthering the efforts of the organization.

Most, if not all, of the programs that were in place in the organization to save animals and/or make them adoptable were already in place before Winogard came. The person Winogard recommended to he hired at the shelter as the new executive director takes credit for what few programs she hasn't completely dropped. The organization has fewer programs and services to help the animals and the community since Winogard than before.

He personally recommended his friend, Bonnie Brown, for the vacant Executive Director position. Along with Diane Blankenburg, Brown's friend for Alley Cats (or something like that), the 2 women have made a joke out of a 75 year old organization in the community. The shelter is dirty and over-crowded--its little more than an animal warehouse now. Many sick animals that are not getting adequate medical treatment because there is not enough time in the day for staff to medicate multiple times a day.

This shelter went from being a successful open admission shelter with a low euthanasia rate nationally to a financially failing warehouse. Very sad.

I don't really know anything about Nathan, but I do know that the new shelter in Reno is a palace compared to the last dump. I also know that they are actually trying now to get the word out about how many animals are up for adoption and there are always "specials" being done, although I’m guessing this is what “Frances” is referring to when she mentions “pushy campaigns”. Also, when Frances indicated that the last person from the "Mostly Dogs" blog on RGJ got a bunch of hate mail, I'm guessing you are referring to the woman who went and adopted a dog from the Humane Society then had it put down the next day. Things like that tend to piss people off, so are you really surprised she got hate mail? I'm hoping that all of you who are complaining are helping animals everyday in your own way. I'm not saying the Reno Humane Society is perfect, but I have never seen some of the things you are claiming. I have never seen animals turned away and I've never seen cats with pan leuk or any other (obvious) illnesses. I guess I just am not seeing what some of you claim. Maybe I’m blind; maybe you’re too cynical.

You would be more credible if you even know it was the Nevada Humane Society, and you really do not have a clue about conditions there. Perhaps if your standards are low enough it would look good. As for the lady with the dog, we have all heard that, sick dog , quality of life, none of my business. Why would anyone take a dog back to where it was not taken care of, some people take them back to pet stores, it doesn't make sense to me.

The old NV Humane Soc. building was over 30 years old. Of course it was too small and worn out and animal control was in even worse shape. That's why the organization championed the building of a new shelter for both animal control and themselves. Yes, there are more kennels and spaces for cats. The reason is because the community has grown in the past 30 years and there was a need for more. However, stock-piling animals in overcrowded conditions breeds disease and behavioral issues. The animals are not better taken care of now than they were before the consolidation with animal control and building of the new shelter. The new shelter is a tremendous waste of space. It may look pretty and is supposed to be "state of the art" but it is a nightmare to clean and maintain.

Can there be a happy medium? Very difficult topic because no one is the winner.

Susan offers such a wealth of knowledge from the professionsl prospective. I guess that like me, she has some years behind her in the field. Oh, to the person who keeps putting quotes on my name.... what is that. Have you never met a Frances before ?
The answer is quite simple really, triage the animals, the most adoptable on down. If you NO Kill gurus can't get over the fact that nobody wants a sick mean dog, you are letting the healthy one's get lost in the shuffle. Very unfair and stupid. This is about funding and money and numbers, they don't care about dogs or cats, they care about the bottom line. My vet gets several sickly animals from NHS every month, he said the average is about $350,00, not all the conditions are treatable in a way that would offer a good life for the animal. He sends them back, but is now saying he got the same dog three times, differ adopters, so he contacted the shelter so they put it out to foster.

Debate is never healthy for this group, they leave a trail of destruction and broken county budgets. I agree with another poster that they do love to sue, and flex , but here is something they can chew on, Malicious prosecution, filing a false police reprt, defamation of character, harrassment, malicious slander, loss of business, and extrodinary vet bills . Not everybody backs down, and some people are regrouping for a class action.

Boks came to LA and told the shelters to just stop killing. The first month euthanasia was down and he was only here a few weeks. He told City Council he had already reduced euthanasia 30% in his first three weeks. He just didn't kill those animals in January. He kept them in cramped cages until July then killed them. He didn't reduce the annual euthanasia rate at all. He just held them for the first six months and announced "success!" Then he killed them in July and didn't talk about it. How is that improvement?

He would put three or four pitbulls in a cage and only one would be alive in a day. At least he didn't have to euthanize those other pitbulls. Yes, he intentionally allowed animals to die from illness and injury so he wouldn't have to count them as "euthanized." The number dying went from 1,000 to 3,000 per year. That is inhumane. Cats died of pneumonia, dogs died from cage fights and pneumonia. If you added the ones who died to those euthanized, there was no improvement.

His second year here he started refusing the animals most likely to be euthanized. Feral cats, neonate kittens, big old pitbulls. Each one refused is one "saved." Get it, another numbers trick. Next year we'll have even more unwanted pets with all these unneutered animals let loose on the streets.

That is not nokill. It's animal abuse, animal cruelty. He deserves to be shoved into a cage full of pitbulls.

The January numbers just came out for LA Animal Services. We have gone backwards! Ed Boks the nokill guru has taken us back to 2003! Things are now worse than not only before he got here but two years before that. We had been showing progress for years. The man who was supposed to make the City nokill overnight has done the opposite.

Euthanasia is up over 2003 levels. Intake is up over 2003 levels. Refusing unneutered feral cats and kittens caused the population to explode this season. The warehousing has finally caught up on us. The shelters were totally full in January, the slowest month because Boks was warehousing them to improve numbers. He must now kill animals that have been there for months and months to make room for new intake. I guess Boks thought he'd be gone by now onto another city to con.

That is exactly how things are going at our no kill pubilic intake facility, the one guy took off and now they say his evals were wrong these dogs & cats stored for a year are finally being allowed to have some dignity. The population was getting out of control, fours dogs to a run, cats stacked everywhere, then the dog manager wrote a piece blaming the public and moved, now the new guy is stuck with the killing. Yes they are killing at the NHS no kill facility, read it on the blogs.

I hate that you have destroyed a beautiful facility, that you have torn apart our communnity, all for your chubby greeedy little pockets; and your giant healthy ego. The poor animals caught in your self gratifying "mission" have paid the most. don't tell the world we are your success story, we are going out and telling them the truth. There is a great website being built , and we hope to provide a virtual tour of this great place, if we can find room to hold the camera

Sad fact is that NHS is recycling a lot of dogs. I read somewhere the return rate is about 30%--a third of dogs come back!! This is an outrageous number. It is not uncommon for dogs to be returned to the shelter for behavioral or health issues then re-adopted to another unwary person who in turn returns it. This is primarily due to 2 things--1) the no-kill philosophy and 2) a lack trained staff to properly evaluate the animals. A few blessed souls actually decide to keep the animal (probably sometimes out of guilt and sometimes out of compassion/bonding) and have it treated at their expense or attempt training. Likely many dogs with behavioral problems are given away to friends/family of the adopter and don't return to the shelter. Adoption for most people is the same thing as impulse buying in the supermarket except it is based on pity for the animals. Shelters depend on this emotional rollercoaster to get animals out. Only a small percentage of adopters actually register their pet's microchip so it is hard for shelters to know how many time the animal has changed hands or where it has been.

As someone who has spent 20 years in management at a shelter, I can tell you it is in fact a numbers game for funding as pointed out. There would be a great number of people out of a job if the so-called pet overpopulation issue was solved. These organizations may solve 1 problem but then must find another issue to address to keep funding coming in in order to justify their existence.

Am I the only person in the country who does not believe that 8-10 million animals are killed annually in shelters? Surely there are others who realize this is the same number that was used in the 70s before the spay/neuter campaigns of the late 70s and early 80s. Fact is there are no national annual statistics, never has been, and likely will never be for the reasons expressed above. It is ridiculous to keep using these figures 30-40 years later and shows just how well the public snow-job is working.

As for the original question--"NoKill" was never a seriously viable alternative to open admission shelters in the first place. It has inherent flaws that prevent it from being sustainable long term. It sounds good on paper and makes for good press though. There is only 1 place in the nation where it has been reportedly successful on a large scale--San Francisco.

The ones I have been following take from the public only after they take all from municipal impound facilities. I am not aware of any open admin, no restriction no kill shelters. As you say so very well , just can't work.
Up here they have the dogs from Gabb's , a very sad story, but they are up for adoption. I talked to girl yesterday who took one, it ran away the first day she had it home. she said she wasn't looking; it was feral. Thirty feet down the hall in inpound; another dog, a nice pit bull brought it from Pyramid highway was destroyed because it wasn't transferred. I think the poster who said you can't claim no kill while you pawn them off to other shelter to die is really no kill here.

The Gabbs dogs are an interesting story of how good intentions to "rescue" animals can go haywire. I was told the following story about 5-7 years ago after the dogs showed up in Gabbs by either locals or the Sheriff's Office:

Those dogs belonged to Dama Wirres who started off rescuing dogs who were on "death row" at the local shelters around Richland, WA where she lived and worked at the Hanford nuclear site. She was supposedly operating as a RESCUE organization and taking in donations. Animal control there eventually went after her for too many dogs and questioned their care thus began her journey to find a place to put the dogs where the dogs' lives wouldn't be threatened. Supposedly, she first moved the dogs to either Oregon or Idaho and was again chased off by an animal control agency. Somehow she hooked up with someone that owned the property in Gabbs who offered to let her install a compound and put the dogs there. The chain link fence was put up and about 90 dogs were dumped at the site originally. Wirres hired a local to care for the dogs and left the area. Over time Wirres stopped providing enough money to care for the dogs and when the 1st caretaker ran out money, he abandoned them. Wirres did not provide shade protection or shelter. Food was merely poured over the fence onto the ground. There was no running water or well on the property forcing the caretakers to haul water to the compound in barrels. Eventually, others started taking care of the dogs and word has it that Wirres sporadically made appearances and provided more money while hiring different caretakers. Inbetween times, locals tried to care for the dogs as best they could. The compound was not secure and many dogs escaped. Locals were angry due to the dogs being loose and bothering livestock, etc, and began shooting the dogs. Other locals began dumping unwanted dogs, some that were not neutered, at the compound causing the population to increase. The Sheriff's Office was at a loss as to what to do about the situation so it went on for years. The dogs had little human interaction and most were there because they already had behavioral issues which caused them to be slated for euthanasia at the shelters originally.

The story regarding this situation is now being told a little differently and appears to be trying to paint Wirres as a heroine for saving these dogs and claiming she was operating a rescue/adoption organizatioin. As I said, this was the story I was told years ago. I have never visited the dogs in Gabbs nor spoken to Wirres. However, I have spoken to both the Sheriff's Office and locals who gave me the above info years ago.

Oddly, most real rescues try find homes for the dogs they take in, but I've never heard of anyone that Wirres adopted a dog to. In my humble opinion, Wirres was merely another animal hoarder, not a rescuer.

Many felt sorry for the dogs, but knew they were there because they couldn't function in society. Now NHS is adopting them out as fast as they come back in. It is somehing to with glory hunting; it can't be about dogs or they would take better care of the dogs they take in, and they would take in dogs that at least have a chance to be adopted. I hope all people who are turned away at the Humane Society would contact the Washoe County Board of Commissioners to complain. These construction workers are losing jobs and going to other states, not all can take the dog. Two of the guys on the job sites by us have been building here for three years, they were told surrender privileges were for locals, yet we have feral dogs sitting caged and frightened. Thank you for the true story Susan, could you somehow post that in Reno where the locals could be warned or helped? Readers in other cities should be careful too, this can happen to you, and will if this group takes over.

Nathan obviously read this article and responded on his blog. He is again blaming the shelter and shelter staff for his own failure.

http://nathanwinograd.blogspot.com/

What matters here is that Nathan gets paid a lot of money, $20,000 - $35,000 per shelter to do his report. He says he can make the shelter nokill. The shelter never becomes nokill. Sometimes things end up much worse. This has happened at every shelter where he consulted. His consultations obviously do not work. They're a total waste of money. Your only guarantee is that Nathan will attack the shelter after he gets his money. Who would want that?

If you go to his websites, he basically just attacks everyone who doesn't kiss his ass. He attacks the Humane Society of the US for not signing a piece of paper supporting him. He says they are against nokill because they wouldn't sign his piece of paper. They're not against nokill. He attacks PETA, ASPCA for the same thing. He attacks other shelter Directors like Ed Boks, the Mayor of Los Angeles because he didn't hire him. He attacks pro AB1634 people. AB1634 is mandatory spay neuter. Who wouldn't support that? Look at the people he supports. The center for consumer freedom. They are lobbyists for the milk, meat, fur and animal research industry. He also supports puppy mill breeders like PawPac who are against AB1634. He supports them because they tell people to buy his stupid book. He only cares about money, folks, that's it.

His book is worthless. It talks about the problems in 99.9% of the book. Only a few pages deal with possible solutions. We already know about the problem. We want a solution.

You don't mean PawPac. You mean the anti-ab1634 groups like SaveOurDogs.

Florida pondered choosing Nathan Winograd but said no. I'm sure they realize he's a total farse. Instead they considered HSUS and National Association of Animal Control who also do nokill consulting. In fact there are more who do consulting. They cost less, are more effective and don't instantly slam the City after their contract is over.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/broward/story/434893.html

In other news today I read an interview with Nathan. In the interview he slams SFSPCA where he once worked as the number two guy.

JM: Why did you leave the shelters you worked with? Are they still successfully using the model you introduced?

NW: I left San Francisco because new shelter leadership abandoned the nuts and bolts programs which made the city the most successful in the nation.

He didn't leave. He was fired from SFSPCA. So he attacked them. He also wanted to be the Director but they refused to promote him.

HSUS would be my choice, but Florida is headed in the right direction . Away from Winograd is the right direction. I have a copy of our ( Washoe ) contract with him and for the life of me I can't see where he has the right or authority to do half the stuff he is trying to do. The current move from NHS is to take more kennel space from the county, leaving absolutely no buffer for natural disaster or disease. Just fill every inch and worry about tomorrow later, very foolhardy and irresponsible. I would be interested to learn the number of animals being destroyed at the time,& I am not suggesting it is unnecessary, it would just be nice to get some honesty from that Ex. Dir. She put a spin piece out on the local blog and it is the same ol' same ol'. The blog is a pimp for Winograd and not a very good source of accurate information, but she never offers that anyway.

I know we got some here in Sacramento, but I haven't seen them. Maybe they are not marked on the kennel card. I would consider one, my wife is worried about the kids, have they been tested ? I don't think they should be kept in cages after running free all their life. Somebody should have stepped in a long time ago and not let this go so long.

Just to set the record straight...the National Animal Control Association (NACA) does not endorse "no kill" nor do evaluations directly for "no kill." What they do is conduct evaluations for municipal agencies upon request and for a fee to determine if the agency is following procedures, meeting safety requirements, and adequately training staff, etc, etc. They provide a report with recommendations on how to improve public relations, etc.

Our local newspaper's animal blogger is a radical (and rabid) animal rights supporter. He is a city boy who has moved to the outskirts of town and fancies himself Mr. Greenjeans. What he doesn't know about animals and animal welfare would fill volumes.

He shills for Winogard and the NV Humane Soc's Exe. Dir. Bonnie Brown. He has begun to read and has to approve of the content of the responses before publication. He started doing this when the community got ticked off over the misinformed crap he was posting. He goes out of his way to hide the criticism of shelter management from the public claiming it is all unsubtaniated, anonymous allegations.

He and his wife are trying to build their own nonprofit Farm Sanctuary so he guards NHS and Winogard, et al, from negative comments.

Winograd likes to cozy up with crazy violent radical animal activists. Here is LA he is buddy buddy with Pam Ferdin of ADL and SHAC, and her husband Jerry Vlasak of ALF. He's the guy who told 60 minutes it's okay to kill people for animal rights. Winograd works with these people. He gets them to force cities to hire him. Here in LA Ferdin, Vlasak, ADL and ALF are trying to force the Mayor to hire Winograd. They protest at the Mayor's house, his exwife's house, sister's house, the deputy mayor's house, parents, exwife's house, Ed Boks the managers house, chief of staff's house. They frighten children, threaten to kill people, call people murderers, yell through bull horns, spray paint their homes. Winograd is fine and dandy with these despicable tactics. If he had a real product to sell, he wouldn't have to use thugs to force cities to buy his services. He is the lowest of the low. Here is the activists' sites to try to force LA to hire winograd http://www.stopthekilling.net

Nathan Winograd is a plagiarist. A lot of his reports are reports which he stole from other people. He uses their articles word for word then puts his name on them. He even uses the same title. When called to the floor on his plagiarism he'll say "I changed it markedly" when he changed maybe one word out of 2,000. Or else he'll say "I put your name on a flyer which was in the newsletter." Totally untrue. I got a copy of the printed newsletter and saw my article in it. I was like, cool, he used it to help educate people. Then I got to the end and there was his name on it. Why did he feel that he had to put his name on it? Who cares if someone else wrote it? Nathan cares. I then asked for a copy of the newsletter from Nathan so he'd know I knew. He said he had no more copies. It's a pdf. How can you run out of pdf documents?

He again used my article in his Philadelphia report and he looks like a fool. He doesn't realize that what's in my article is totally illegal in the state of Philadelphia. It only applies to California. He's telling the shelter to commit felonies in Philadelphia. They should get their money back. You'd think he'd at least check philadelphia laws on the topic in my article. Nope. Talk about dumb.

Winograd doesn't check law in any state except California, he is always trying to do some California thing here in Nevada. He is a bully and not very bright. I agree with the comments about our local blogger, he is a menace with his lack of information, and selective publishing. What are the Euth rates for NHS ? Daily intake numbers, how many transfers from other agencies, with the blended numbers it is hard to believe anything on the blog. I know we have gone downhill since the new director took over, a spiral, we are not at the bottom either. There are a few good blogs out there that put up both sides of the situation. I stumbled on a new one last week, it is not confrontational, it gives people a place to comment if they want. It doesn't approve of NHS but is not vicious so I felt safe to post there. It is on blogger and called Advice from Oreo. It came up one day as one of the blogs of note.

When Winograd was still a practicing attorney, he was an attorney for Animal Defense League which has ties to Animal Liberation Front and SHAC. He is the darling of ALF and SHAC. If he were to turn the other direction, they'd go after him with a vengence.

The no-kill movement has been around for 20 years. Long before Winograd tried to become a national specialist on the subject. Don't you think that if it really worked, the entire USA would be no-kill by now? It is ignorant and stupid for anyone to suggest that shelter workers only want to kill animals, and if they'd only embrace Winograd's ideas, that all the animals would find homes and be free of exploitation, pain, and suffering. You'd have to be a 8-year-old girl to believe the crap he espouses.

could you post the internet address for Advice from Oreo? I couldn't find it doing a Google search.

Thanks

Susan, here it is, there are several similar lisitngs on the web. I think it may be a niche site for people to get started blogging without being flamed. I have volunteered in this area over 25 years, I know the real animal lovers are sickened by what is going on. there are no anonymous posts on that site and approval required so it seems small but civilized.
http://ricknbaby0076.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the web address. Looks like the beginning of a nice blog site. I hope Happy Camper writes more in the future.

Sheldon--The Gabbs dogs went to NV Humane Soc, Marin, and Truckee as well as Sacto. Best Friends in Utah out did themselves and took 5 puppys to their 31,000 acre facility. Wow! Wasn't that magnanimous of them? I don't remember hearing where United Animal Nation dispersed all the dogs. I worry about the what will happen with these dogs being adopted. As noted (was it here?), a gal adopted one from NHS, and it was feral, ran away the first day, and the adopter did not want to find or reclaim the dog because it was wild.

Everybody who saw the dogs said they were terrified of people. I don't think there will be a happy ending for them, and this could have been the time for BF to really be a sanctuary. The Yerington Shelter took 13 dogs, way more than BF. It was all publicity for NHS and BF, yes there was one dog that ran away on the first day and the lady let it go. To be fair, I don't know what you could do with a wild dog running loose in the foothills. I know the dogs are out of the building in Reno, at least we are being told they are, but who knows where they went.
Sheldon read Advice from Oreo, you don't want to put a frightened dog in with children.There is one dog posted on Petharbor . com 89502 zip, a black dog named Gabbs, he is the one that was being attacked by the other dogs, David Pyle took him home for a few weeks and then when he left NHS he dumped the dog back on them, so he could go "rescue" dogs in Louisiana, go figure.
I went to that little blog mentioned earlier, some good entry level advice there, but it needs some posts. I will go put my two cents worth in.

I went back to reference an article by Ardena Perry in the RGJ it is gone, but there is a postings link. I know part of the article was on Mostlydogs. badly edited of course, how would one find a " gone" article ? http://talk.rgj.com/viewtopic.php?start=30&t=42564 Some of those old postings are right on.

ardena1985 [at] hotmail.com and see if she will send you a copy of what she wrote.

You are correct that the orginal article is no longer available from RGJ.

I emailed to that address, I hope she has a copy she can send. I thought the RGJ kept those columns.
BTW to LT on the "Keeping up with the Joneses" remark, very astute. It becomes incumbent on all the surrounding shelters to keep up with the false promises. When failure comes ( inevitably ) the No Kill attack begins, and the mudslinging is awful. Up here several people quit donations after they found out how things were being handled The whole R/O deal that they did to Ardena really hurt them and the image they had polished so carefully. They looked like the thugs they were. I was still volunteering when she used to come out, the dogs all loved her. I didn't know her personally, but I would see how the dogs reacted when she came in the pod. One day when we gave up this dog for euth, a biter, & she came in while I was bawling, she sat there on the floor with me for about an hour. Everything went to hell and I left when they ditched her. We became a closed campus, lots of us left and didn't say anything to Bonney or Debbie.
The benches are gone and so are the volunteers that set on them.

Are you talking about Deb Kelly that took over the HR job who is the ex-felon who served time at Dept. of Corrections women's facility at Silver Springs? Tall, thin, blondish, older woman who lives in Sun Valley? If so, she started off as a kennel attendant, then became an adoption counselor. She started doing some data processing for the shelter, and they taught her to do time cards and payroll. She got moved into the position as an human resource manager with no prior education or experience after Dr. Williams quit and the last Asst. Dir., Chris Fletcher, moved back to So. Cal. They wanted the bookkeeper to take over HR but refused to give her an increase in pay for it. When she said she wouldn't take on more work and responsibility without more pay, Brown told her either she did as she told without a pay increase or she could resign. The bookkeeper quit.

What Brown and the NV Humane Soc did to Ardena was horrific. Brown, with the assistance of the Dog Blog guy, ganged up on her and made her out to be a 1st class nut job--the dog guy even made fun of her and did post her photo on the internet for sale through the RGJ website. I don't know Ardena personally, but do admire her trying to do the right thing for that dog and for pointing out problems with the care and evaluations of the animals.

And I think the description is wonderful, almost as good as Mr. Greenjeans. My understanding is Ardena is sitting back letting them shoot themselves in the foot. We have the same dentist and the office girls are into foster, but hate NHS. According to them she is as nice as she seemed at the shelter. She took pictures of overcrowding and they trumped up charges to get her out of there. I saw her leaving one day as I was coming in and she looked like I remembered her. The other fosters are afraid they will get banned from fostering and the cats will have no help. I was on the dog side. I guess they stopped her from contacting the shelter, but some fosters still call her for help in training. We were all chicken shit for not coming forward, but if you weren't there, don't judge. I know my dentist stopped his auto donate and the people I talk to really distrust NHS now. She said they would self destruct, on the blog, and that seems to be happening. They tried to destroy her and pretty much said that would happen to any of us who got in the way, butt out !

Not in Sacramento I hope. There is a lot of money to be made in animals, but I didn't think they attracted this type of people. Are they connected with that bunch in Utah ? I did one of their angel dogs once and found out the dog was long gone when I went through there on a business trip and stopped in to see " my angel" . What a crock.

Sheldon--- What we are talking about is occurring in Reno, NV.

The exe dir of the humane society came from Best Friends in Kanab, UT. Before that I believe she was working for Alley Cats. So yes, she is actively connected to Best Friends, Alley Cats, and the NoKill Advocacy Center.

I've noted that there are continuous ads out for employment. Seems they have advertised 2-3 times in the past year for a clinic manager and clinic receptionist. I don't know if the shelter has ever been fully staffed since they fired and/or forced out all those supervisors and managers.

If more people know the truth about No Kill it would never get it's lying foot in the door. Ardena is a local activist up here, she volunteers in several areas, government and private. I worked hospice with her for medically indigent persons who were passing in motel rooms up here. She is a tough bird,We tried to get her to take the R/O to district court , and drag them back the same muddy trail, they drug her. She said the longer you stood in **** the worse you smell and the more got on you. They are floundering over there, even though the dog numbers are dropping fast. The new dog man must be a real " clean slate " guy. Google: Marc Peralta on myspace; real winner . He isn't getting any mention on the local blog. The turn over there is so fast that I am always seeing ads on Nathans or BF, God we don't hire anyone who knows what they are doing they might critque the programs .

I went to the stop the killing link posted somewhere up the line, absolutely mind boggling. Those people are insane, banging on doors,protesting homes of family members, I would have the cops there so quick. I did see on the Winograd site he discourages collaboration with Animal Control, he thinks it is a waste of time, and the civil servants are trying to be polite and professional, while the crazies yell. we really have to support and inform our local governments, they don't know and the idiots have the shrillest voice ( because theyare hysterical ) I saw a funny line on Advice from Oreo, under the Frisbee dog picture. It was something about NHS and a red phone. Happy Camper makes a good point about misconceptions. We both post on Cory Farley. Please , please God, make the mean man go away !

I don't know why that surprised me. Susan, had you seen that, they argue to have No Kill Solutions hired or they will continue you to terrorize the citizens; and there sits Bonney.

Nathan Winograd intentionally riles up the activists against cities. He uses them to force cities to hire him. He gives free "nokill seminars" to activists to rile them up. Then he tells them to "demand that the shelters stopthekilling." He tells them to go after the cities, so he can get a contract and money. Then the shelter fails and he blames the employees. These activists believe all of his bull.

These activists went to the home of the exGM of LA Animal Services at night wearing masks. They scared the GM's wife so badly that she had a heart attack. You can thank Winograd for that. Obviously his services must suck for him to resort to these tactics to get money. He needs to go back to law.

Bullying and intimidation suck as substitutes for thinking. If there was a better mouse trap the city would buy it, and it looks like they are not buying it ! They seem to only attack women, maybe a small child would make them feel really big, they went after the wife and the sister, not the people they accuseof being the perp's. Did he do this in SF or is this new behavior if he doesn't get his way. It says right there in bold print hire Winograd or else, like a guy with a ugly sister trying to get her a date.

I made the call and talked directly with an intake counselor, I asked about no kill and the status of no kill in the Philadephia area. The lady was kind, but said if I brought my dog to their shelter it would be killed at once. there is not room there for one more animal. I asked if there were another shelter I could call, she assured me there is not a no kill shelter in the area. It is time to drop that lie from the No Kill Solutions list. How is Reno a No Kill shelter when they just killed a batch of dogs? Time to open the overflow valve.

Thank you, I did get the article, she had a lot of support on the genral public blog, and everything she said makes sense. Bonney never gave a direct answer on the local blog about how many animals were killed recently and their conditions prior to being killed. Did they just get vicious overnight ?
Also for Sheldon there are 4 Gabbs dogs on a Wylie Animal Rescue Foundation site, but if you have kids that would be something to think over.

Does anyone think it is a misnomer to call an animal organization a "humane society" or "society for the prevention of cruelty to animals" when they do not address the actual physical abuse and neglect animals sustain daily by the general citizenry? It just seems to me that these shelters really need to find a new name that better reflects what it is they actually do. When did euthanasia become a cruelty?

Just wondering what others think.

Shelter animals have no time to be "down" no respect from the visiting public or staff. They wake the dogs up over and over on a whim. The water is always knocked over, there is always poo, now they are putting more dogs in a pen, none of this is humane. I think they use sleep deprivation as a torture don't they ? It is no wonder the dogs go a little bats. Bonney is marching forward with stacking the animals as closely as she can. Someone mentioned on the Reno blog that there were health rules and the people didn't know what he was talking about. They don't have to be healthy, they're HUMANE; right. I was at a meeting tonight discussing the Flood Plain on the Truckee and there were concerns raised about giving the County Commission final say on a regional agreement again. I don't think the cities are in agreement with some of the contracts on Animal Services.

Neither of our local Humane - SPCA shelters do anything for the animal abuse issue, it is all up to County. I can't think of anyplace that is not government that enforces cruel behavior. In Lyon county the pound requested area shelters not to release animals to one rescue because of citations for crowding and conditions. NHS was the only one that would release to them, and then finally Carson City Animal services let them take a couple of Pits. The rescue moved to Churchhill county which is what they seem to do when they get busted. She is all buddy buddy with the dog blogger so he pushes her dogs for her, the latest is from California too. The Geraldo of the rescue world.

As I stated above, NHS did have humane officers until Winograd and Brown arrived on the scene. The humane officers enforced the state statutues while animal control enforced the local ordinances. The 2 agencies did not do the same thing. Humane officers could investigate outside Washoe County and prepare cruelty cases for presentation to the local DA's office. Animal control officers cannot except inside Washoe County.

Neither NHS or the SPCA of No. NV have cruelty investigators thus I think they are not societies for the prevention of cruelty to animals as their names imply. They have become strictly animal adoption outlets.

You are correct, there are no Humane officers at all under those terms other than in county government.. Anybody else following the situation in Indiana ? Humane Society of Indianapolis; Move to act is rearing it's ugly head there, but those folk seem very much determined no to go stupid. The HSI is not a contracted agency, but is wanting to turn aways strays. very different from Nevada and other places where the takeovers occur. Advice from Oreo brought up a good point on Euth and no kill communities. I will see if I can do a copy paste, I am not very good at that. It was something to do with it isn't the animals taken from a shelter but the animals not offered to a shelter that set the mood for no kill. Go read it if I can't get it up.

Yeah, I get a bit PO'd about that rescue wanting local dollars to further their efforts at bringing in dogs from out of state that have major health issues and wanting locals to pay for fixing them. Don't I remember that they recently said that they were going to stop taking all but local dogs?? Afterall, there are many, many dogs a the local shelters and animal control without importing more. I guess they do it as a means to get "pity" donations.

I've also noted that it is not uncommon for "rescues" to move out to Churchill County to avoid animal control intervention. I'd be curious whether this rescue has a well and electricity out at Lahotan. Most places out there don't and most don't have a generator either. There are a lot of squaters out there and less than stellar citizens.

There are numerous rescues in the area but the dog blogger doesn't give them attention apparently since they don't post on his blog.

"The will of the community for a no kill situation would be, not the numbers taken from a shelter; but the numbers kept in the home. That is how you judge a no kill climate. When you have a small number of people trying to regulate the behavior of large numbers of people, failure is inevitable. It has to be the will of the people to create a pet safe envirionment. For most areas there is not a true public appetite."
The above is a copy paste from the Advice from Oreo blog. The goal has to be for the lowest kill rate possible across the board. When you put that much focus on one or two dogs for the drama it is unfair to the general population of strays .
My thoughts are, the availability of conscience free dumping is worsening the problem, and now they are just shipping them out the back door to rescues which are not supervised. The problem remains the NHS is the public intake facility, they are not so private as they try to act.

Nathan has changed all his links and is moving to San Francisco, does anyone know if this is connected with the crazy behavior of the ADL ? Alos my Sister lives in Indianapolis and he is going there in May and she says the attacks are starting already. I just wondered if he going ofr ananother swing at a bay area shelter. Like they need that.

Maybe Winograd will be taking his place. I don't know. He is moving back to SF. Maybe he'll go back to being a lawyer.

ADL likes Winograd. Winograd uses ADL, as in Animal Defense League, to badger, pester cities into hiring him. They're outside the Mayor's house chanting "hire nokill solutions now!" every weekend. They spray paint cars, strip paint off cars, graffiti, frighten, threaten people in City Hall.

Thanks for that info, is it the SFSPCA man who is retiring, or another agency ?
Efforts locally ( Reno) are aimed at destroying WCRAS, there is no plan from NHS for how the animals will be cared for after they do .
As usual demands are made and are against every known health rule. We are heading for a real disease outbreak if someone doesn't stop them.Their standards are so low for animal health it is scary. Please keep us posted.

Shaking in NV--NHS heavily encourages fostering as a means to reduce the number of animals in the shelter. The goal of fostering is to get volunteers to take animals that they feel a bond to or sympathy for. It is basically a means for free adoption for volunteer. NHS hopes that foster volunteers will want to keep the animal after fostering them. While NHS offers to pay for food, bedding materials, and vet treatment, the fact is that most foster parents find it easier to pay for supplies themselves and consider it a form of donation to the shelter. NHS depends on volunteers to feel this way. It saves the shelter a substantial amount of money to have as many foster homes as possible. It reduces man-hour costs, food costs, and vet treatment costs inside the shelter. Its a real good deal for the shelter and often times for the animal, too.

You are very correct that the animals sent to fosters and rescues are not monitored by NHS. I have had occasion to visit many, many "rescue" organizations in Washoe, Churchill, Carson, Douglas, and Lyon counties (among others). I can tell you from personal experience that most rescues start with good intentions, but it is not uncommon for them to turn into little more than glorified animal hoarding and collecting.

Fran--Winograd's book is a bust that didn't live up the expected sales. Its selling now for $10 in some markets. The publishing house that produced his book is a small publisher and might even be a self-publishing business. Winograd might have invested his personal money into the publishing of his book. He is currently giving it away for a $50 donation to his organization the NoKill Advocacy Center. I have no idea why he is moving from San Clemente to San Francisco. His links work but his website is obviously undergoing changes.

No City--I don't fully understand your comments regarding WCRAS and NHS. However, the county, City of Reno, and City of Sparks are not going to let WCRAS be destroyed by NHS and rescue groups. The county is not going to give up control of that new shelter.

Who is making the demands on whom that are against known health rules? Which side of the building has low standards and is going to be the cause for a disease outbreak? Ya kind of lost me there....

I hope you are right about the county and cities hanging on to the investment, it sure seems like the nuts are winning at times.
The concerns for disease come from the increased number of animals per square foot. As far as we know Bonney has not backed off on sticking cats in every corner, a new post by her indicates the new " Colony room" has a counter. Obviously not designed for animal storage, and she is putting two dogs to a pen unless that fight...How does one determine that at high intesity times ? Ps Lots of the inside links Nathan stuck all over the net are just gone, so if there is something you need, better download it. He is getting some stuff off the air. One post he has about letting FIV cats be released back into the community.......

The reason descripions get so confusing is that NHS actually has animals on the WCRAS side of the building. The county animals all still look good, kennels clean, water, but airborne disease is always a problem and with the lack of knowledge about animal care for long periods, having NHS animals in with county is dangerous to the strays.

I thought I would jump in here, the overflow from NHS is sometimes stored on the stray side, I don't know why the commission doesn't stop it. It might save money but soon both sides will be overcrowed if NHS standards are allowed to spread. County standards remain the same, but NHS is crowding in.
Fosters are good , but here they have to much power and are taking advantage of free medical to support the whole pack. Stray fosters pay their own medical. My understanding is there are even dog fosters living in apartments. A friends son lives in an apartment and the people above him foster two pits. If they did a home check they would know it is an apartment. The dog blogger is being quiet during Winograd's move.

I have read Nathan Winograd's book and as an avid animal welfare supporter and regular volunteer at two separate organizations, this book caught my interest. I do believe no kill is possible and it has to start at the shelter level. Does anyone have proof of all of the negative things I am hearing about Mr. Winograd? I am seeing quite a bit of comments that contradict things I have read in his book. I want to know the truth and I have no "loyalty" to him, I just want to know if he did what he said he did. I want to see sources--not personal opinion.

I did go to your site, and I know you are sincere in your hopes. The blog is not a place where one could condense weeks and even years of study. The information to support what is being said here is available to the public in most cases. No Kill can work in a limited admissions shelter, but if you are limited admissions what do you think happens to the animals turned away. Do the homework and you will see the numbers game, a very cruel numbers game. Those of us blogging here have seen the problems first hand, we have lived with it. As a matter of fact, the ones having the facts are the ones who have experienced a serious impact on our local shelters as a result of people like you reading a book, and not doing the investigative work to find the truth.
Winograd trotted in here gave his little dog and pony show, sold a couple of books got the cntract and we have gone to hell in a handcart. It is much easier to give your shelter away than it is to get it back, learn from others. If it seems to good to be true it is.

Nathan Winograd may be involved with radical flakes in LA, but within the past year he has gotten involved with a different kind of radical- the Breeding Lobby. And the animal abuse lobby.

A lobbyist for the livestock etc lobby was promoting Nathan and doing press releases for his book last summer. This person (Rick Berman and CCF Center for Consumer Freedom) http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=8984 and http://www.consumerdeception.com

That lobbyist is also cited as a source of information and leadership by breeders, AKC breeders, puppy mill breeders, dog fighter breeders. They all post his links on their various crazy lobbying websites and forums.

The bottom line for breeders is that they don't want to be regulated in any way. They oppose any and all rules, laws, licensing. because many of them are running illegal businesses,. breaking zoning laws, breaking dog limit laws, committing cruel acts, and above all HIDING THEIR INCOME and not paying their taxes.

They use lack of licensing or laws to hide this activity. Plus, the AKC survives on money from puppy mill registrations. That's what pays their bills, so the AKC and breeders lobby FOR THE PUPPY MILLS and their aversion to laws and licensing.

Because groups like HSUS or ASPCA or Peta or many of the other humane groups SUPPORT laws and licensing, and oppose things like puppy mills, these breeders hate them with a passion!

And when Nathan hooked up with Rick Berman and Consumer Freedom junk, Rick Berman and CCF sent out word on the breeder line that they were to support Nathan Winograd because Nathan will SMEAR THE HUMANE GROUPS THEY HATE (like Peta and ASPCA and HSUS) and above all, will oppose LAWS AND LICENSING AND RULES FOR BREEDERS.

So that is why you see the sneaky breeders pushing Nathan Winograd and claiming he has all the answers.

Deep down, they don't really trust him or like him, but if he will support the opposition to licensing and breeder rules, they will promote him with authorities where they are afraid that things like mandatory spay neuter will pass. (Mandatory spay neuter means that breeders have to get licensed and it gets exposed that they have way more dogs and are selling more and making more money than they claimed.)

You will also see some of these AKC breeders pretending to be journalists (lke Denise Flaim, an AKC breeder who uses Newsday to promote AKC business and political interests) pushing Nathan Winograd and being deceptive about his success (as they are deceptive about most things.)

A lot of the Nathan Winograd pushing comes from Naia, a group headed by an AKC breeder who also is on the AKC Puppy Mill Commercial Breeder committee that hooked up AKC with the puppy mill business.

These people support every kind of animal cruelty under the sun. And there's Nathan right in the middle of them.

His activities with the breeders has to be one of the more disgusting things going on. When you see dog fighters pushing Nathan on their boards and web pages, he has just hit rock bottom.

Does anyone know why he would be so desparate as to get involved with these businesses? He has some nerve going on about "$$" of humane groups when he got involved with the most $$ hungry, tax cheating, abuse supporting bunch of business people, the Breeders.

Is he receiving lobbying money from breeder lobbying groups?

I am not shocked anymore. We went over the hill for St. Pat's day.and took a side trip to the animal shelters . The Spca is old but well run, the other big building in the industrial area was a different deal. We went first to the "stray side" we didn't know the set-up, they showed us where to go for adoptions and explained their hold process. My wife wanted to look everywhere so we checked out the strays too. There were not as many pitbulls as I had expected from the blog, but the dogs we saw were mixes and some could have been pitbull. It was cleaner than we had expected for a dog pound, and the cats were behind glass walls. I guess that protects them and the dogs, since the dogs were viewed through a window too.
Down the hall to the adoption center was a big change. Cats were in the hall there was a small room with other animals and down another hall with dogs at the end and small rooms with dogs that were stored there. We found the kennels with little difficulty, followed the barking, but they went on extensively. Little cubby holes everywhere had a few dogs and the further back we went the more the overwhelmed we felt. A volunteer told us many animals were off site. We didn't think it was the worst place we had ever seen, but for a new looking building it felt crowded and damp. It was chaotic.

I would like to see that if I can. I believe you, it is like him to be all over the map for any funding and back up. Keep checking King County Washington, No Kill is on the attack there all the stuff they tried in Washoe. Maybe the old dog manager from here can go to work for Nathan in SF, that is a scary thought, pile the animals up for a year and then hire poor Marc Peralta to do something about it. I can't believe how quiet NHS kept that although some on the dog blog called it a purge which I think is fair.

Regarding the 3/2 comment by "susan" about Debbie Kelly ...... whether you belive in the "no kill" idea or not, to publicly post comments about someone's past is totally off topic. If you want to comment on "no kill" that's fine, but keep any personal comments about people you know absolutely nothing about to yourself. By the way, I have a lot of adimation for anyone that can pull themselves up from where they have been and make something of themself in such a short amount of time. Debbie Kelly should be commended for her hard work and value to a cause she truly believes in.
Susan, maybe it's you who have something to be ashamed of.

To plagerize a quote:

"Me thinks she doth protest too much"

Susan's on target, righteous indignation is a clue. I don't know you GG or Susan, but if you sling enough mud, some will land on you. The sites I have linked to are filled with hate remarks from people representing NHS and no kill . " Vicious" is the word to describe the people posting on the rgj. blog and if someone else can put some light on the kind of people in charge of the hatred mongering at least we can understand why they write the stuff do. I read the dog trainer article and after seeing it mentioned here, and the atttack was a B** The same insulting style you just wrote in. NHS-no kill, has torn innocent people to shreds, & destroyed reputations. As a retired military dog handler I wouldn't blame that guy if he sued you into the next century. We all have a past, it seems to be your present that is causing you trouble.

Everything Susan has posted checks out. Gabbs was confirmed from years ago, the facts match. The rescues are trying to keep the spin going, but Lorayn posted on a blog about needing a lawyer for repeated violations in Lyon county. As more people quit and get fired the truth will just keep getting out. No kill can be a part of the area, but people are sick of being bullied and lied to. Play nice or go home. The volunteers are telling the truth now, see all the above posts.

Robin K who had been the best you could hope for as a true animal advocate has been fired, maybe her compassion annoyed them. Maybe she spoke the truth one to many times.

Shakin--I knew Robin had been fired. I know her personally, too, and know she is a huge animal lover. I have to say that I was surprised she wasn't let go a long time ago. Not wanting to risk riling the ire of Golden Girl, "that's all I have to say about that." <<

...here's the rest of the above post....

Golden Girl said: "If you want to comment on "no kill" that's fine, but keep any personal comments about people you know absolutely nothing about to yourself."

I do know Debbie Kelly. In fact, I've known her for quite a number of years and know a great deal about her. Secondly, just who do you think you are to tell me what I can or cannot discuss especially when it's a matter of public record?

The so-called management staff of NHS was being discussed. The point being made was that NHS has people of questionable character in positions of authority making decisions. This then has direct relation to the care animals. It is a direct reflection of Brown's lack of leadership ability in surrounding herself with qualified staff. Deb Kelly was not chosen from a group of qualified applicants as the one having the most experience or knowledge. She got the position in HR because Brown/Winograd/Board of Directors fired all other qualified employees then didn't want to spend the money to hire someone who was qualified. They basically kept the "flunkies" that they could control who would do what they were told without argument or disagreement. She got the position by default, not qualifications. She didn't do squat to earn the position nor did she pull herself up by her bootstraps. I question whether she is a suitable person to be in human resources due to the nature of her felony conviction. She has to handle private, sensitive material. I have nothing personal against her whatsoever.

My no-kill beliefs are moot in the discussion about Debbie and have nothing to do with the dynamics inside the shelter. However, Deb no more "believes in the no kill cause" than the man-in-the-moon. She's merely playing a part to keep the best job she's ever had in her life.
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Fran hit on a something that most people in the Reno area fail to recognize. No-kill is not new to this area. The SPCA of Northern Nevada (formerly known as the Reno SPCA) which has been no-kill since its inception has been here for 10 plus years. Hmmm....seems that they weren't able to create a no-kill community in that length of time so the question becomes why Brown/Winograd think they can do something different to accomplish what the SPCA couldn't. The SPCA was following the no-kill playbook as defined by Winograd/Brown.

There is no such thing as no-kill; it's all smoke and mirrors. I wish it was possible. I feel sorry for the volunteers, employees, and donors who buy into it then become disillusioned by the empty promises. It makes it all the harder for open admission shelters to get the help they need. The only ones that make out well are the likes of Brown and Winograd who make a tidy living off espousing the no-kill merits. The animals don't end up better off because their problems are simply transferred out of the shelter for others to deal with as best they can without the funds or knowledge in husbandry to take care these animals. The way no-kill works to to saturate the community in animals. Make every person feel like crap until they adopt more animals than they can take care of emotionally and financially then embarrass/belittle them into never taking an animal to the shelter. Once you hit maximum saturation, no-kill is no longer sustainable because the number of available homes dwindles. This is the point where the likes of Brown and Winograd try to bow out gracefully. Once you hit critical mass, what is the alternative? You end up cleaning up the mess left by no-kill and return to euthanizing homeless pets.

This is exactly what happened at the huge organization known as Animal Foundation in Las Vegas 2 or so years ago. They were pioneers in no-kill and ended up massively overcrowded and had to euthanize a couple thousand animals. It was a horrible situation, but they are not the only place in the country where this has happened--they were just a really big one. All the national no-kill organizations did nothing about the situation even though they knew what was going on there. Their "network" failed. I have absolutely no fondness for HSUS, but it was them that came in and organized the cleaned up. The no-kill community was hoping that problem went away so it wouldn't reflect poorly on them. They didn't step in until there was media attention.
......................
NHS boasts that it has several 1000 volunteers yet the volunteers are questioning where all these other volunteers are. I believe these volunteers are not real volunteers but simply people who showed some interest and filled out a questionaire or card. For all we know, the number could be completely made up. Brown counts everyone as a volunteer including foster homes--that's not working out too well for her either, as I understand. I truly believe that Brown will eventually regret that she left Best Friends, if she doesn't already. She was insulated there, not so here.
..................

Regarding the particular rescue organization. I have some serious concerns and misgivings about them. They've had legal issues and the out-of-the-way location chosen by them now is not really conducive to visitors looking to adopt. There are already numerous rescue organizations (hoarders) in the same area and a boat load of breeders who ship out of state. I don't doubt however that they will have some limited success. Some of these 501c3's fail due to problems with their bookkeeping. They have to be audited by the government every few years. If the organization isn't following the rules, are cooking the books, or partaking in misuse of funds, they will be stepping in a big pile of dog do. NHS before Brown had the books audited annually and of course a financial statement had to be made public by law. It is for this reason that some organizations never apply for 501c3. They actually use a large amount of the donations as supplementation to their personal income. In fact, there is nothing that says you have to be a 501c3. The reason most do it is so donations are tax deductable for the giver. If the organization does not have nonprofit status, the donation is not legally deductable.

Does anyone know why Best Friends Animal Sancutary in Utah is hosting the first annual Nevada Animal Week events in Reno and Las Vegas?? I assume that they will be present, but my question is whether they are bringing animals with them to showcase locally. That's bad enough because it means fewer animals in the local shelters and rescues have a chance to be adopted. But on top of that, if they are present wouldn't they likely be seeking donations for Best Friends? Wouldn't that limit the amount of funds collected locally that could be used locally, too??

Have you gone to kcascreatures.blogspot ?, it is great, it's based in King County and right on for our situation. I'm glad you caught my post about the SPCA , the only reason they " work " is animals can be dumped at the pound. No pound, big troubles. Somebody has to do the dirty work, and not all euth's are dirty work, some are an act of grace. the "Golden Girl" makes me think of the old movie, The Man With The Golden Arm. Google that if it doesn't come to mind. And your imput makes it clear why they thought Marc was such a catch. The local blogger posted " let anyone who hasn't had a drug bust, cast the first stone " I believe the abnormal has become normal to them.
Like you I have grave concerns for the animals in Churchill County, she is accepting (soliciting ?) donations on the rgj blog. Maybe somebody will drop a dime on her, that's a rzdggy term.
I am sorry about Robin, and all the ones before her, who is left with half a brain ?, I can't think of anyone. Sabatoni is being targeted according to a cat rescuer, big time they are going after her like they did what's her name, and then Bonney will have the building. It is time to call the commisioners, this is a county building taking county animals for God's sake. No Sheldon, wherever you are you don't want this in Sac. If your wife is short with long blond hair, I am the woman you talked to about the Gabbs dog.

All the rescues are coming to the event, and Best Friends is after PUBLICITY!!
Yes this does take away from local adoptions, but this is a " global" movement, remember ? The hell with Washoe county just get the animals moving. I have concerns about bringing in diseases we don't currently have here. There is no way to verify innoculations or really even spay / nueter procedures. Please drop by the maddies fund.org site and review the pdf publicity 101, incredible.

Bonney states that Dog Town very generously took a Gabbs dog to " socialize it"
.Question of the day. Lorayn works in the gov's office, brags about an hour commute so she can live on a ranch with the dogs; has 20 dogs of her own, plus the rescues. In her spare time she drives to Colorado for Golith, the child nipping lab, soon off to L.A for a three legged pit, next Merced for a blind bald mix, somewhere else for mangy pups. In her spare time she is juggleing fosters and driving from Churchill to Reno for a fresh load of dogs. all the while directing the helpers to build a pen. What is the care for any of these dogs really like ? Can you socialize a dog in the middle of a desert when you are never home? Why didn't she want to identify the shelter where she got the " starving pits" ? Maybe it is because she is not supposed to be adopting per Lyon County and I am sure Churchill will learn soon what they have inherited. There just aren't enough hours in the day to pull off the miracles she claims.

I have the Philly consultation and it is a direct layover of the King County consult. I would like to see how Washoe County compares. It is quiet up here, my understanding is that many dogs had to be destroyed, I don't see any euth numbers posted, this is so sad . All the jobs lost, all the animals stored and now gone.

Winograd's consult was for the Nevada Humane Society. The NHS is a private non-profit organization that does not hold an animal control contract. The county and NHS built a new shelter together and occupy it with a contract stating that NHS will do all adoptions and owner surrenders while animal control will do reclaims only. To the best of my knowledge, his consultation was never made public. It doesn't mean someone somewhere doesn't have a copy, but I don't know who or how to get it.

One commisioner said they had found the contract between WC ( the government, not AC ) and Winograd. I would think the contract being with NHS may be private, however the The WC portion should be public record. I know he did the consult and he took charge of hiring with the Boards blessings. They were not on a winning streak and still are not. Many of us are ticked at the locals getting the boot, and when the place is staffed with "temps' there can be no continuing of any program. Just as a point of reference I will put the links up for the 2 doc's I am talking about.
http://www.nathanwinograd.com/linked/paccaassessment.pdf Philly
http://www.kingcounty.gov/~/media/Council/documents/Issues/animal/Animal_Services_Consultant_Report.ashx King County Wa.
Dogtown "saved 3 dogs, ( from Carlin ) but one escaped in Battle Mountain, they have another dog running 20 acres in south Reno they are asking for hel getting back to Dogtown, I think the new owner may be discouraged. The one running wild in south Reno was "rescued from living wild in the desert" I think that is 3 Gabbs dogs running free among the hills will be fine, but the losing of dogs is disturbing.
God bless us all for trying, and I hope RK finds another job working with animals, she is very caring.

How does Nathan support himself? Where does the money come from?

In the financials I've seen for his Foundation, there is very little money coming in and he does not appear to pull a salary?

There is an article around where Nathan quotes his father-in-law as complaining about him not making money as would be case if he was lawyering.

Where does the consult money go to?

I believe it was posted he got $15,000 from King County, his others are mostly gone, so it has to be donations he takes in under different titles, He seems to use different names, The No Kill Advocay Center, No kill Solutions, lends his name to ADL, Move to Act, all say " send money" I suspect it is income that may be hard to detect through conventional means, Hope he has a good tax man...

So Best Friends took the Vick pit bulls and is begging for money, even though they got hundreds of thousands of Vick's money (I think half a million?)

But they refused to take pit bulls from their own state

http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=4351316

That got dumped in Las Vegas

and someone said that animals that get left at Best Friends get turned over to Animalcontrol to deal with?

Hey all - I'm the "owner" of kcascreatures.blogspot.com. It's nuts up here in King County WA. I want Winograd out of here - he is poison to the community - especially those who don't know who or what he is or capable of doing. His fanaticism frightens me. I am in disbelief that our Council continues to, in my opinion, ignore the information that other volunteers, foster parents, shelter staff, citizen advisory committee members are bringing forward (omitted from Winograd's report, and then some.) If you have concrete, documented, citable facts and figures in the form of links or actual documents showcasing what happens when he starts running a place, or anything else, please, email me the info! And yes, he was paid $15K of taxpayer money for his "report" which was mostly false or manufactured. Thanks! catmom_wa

We have been tracking your journey and it is like Washoe County to a letter. The commission doesn't listen, the employees are frightened, the animals are suffering...... I am thinking about contacting the A G's office, they regulate non-profits. They do have to post a financial report, and I think it will take a lawyer to get the records. If it takes getting an AC manager to request an outside investigation by HSUS we are ready to do that here. Somebody somewhere better get the oysters to ask for help.
This "plan" is like a computer virus, by the time you realize you have it; the damage is done. They crash the system, they can't use it either, but that doesn't seem to bother them. It is a scorched earth policy. Many of us on this site have been looking for the doc's
Our commission is trying to resolve concerns, but they lack the technical savvy to know about the animals. Winograd had his pals in place here starting last year, if he hasn't infiltrated your shelter yet maybe a union could help, a sit out or a protest ? Try to not let him get any deeper into your budget and monitor every move. Start with morning and night Petharbor numbers, look for notes on animals, or lack of; write everything down. He loves to drag people to court; so numbers are your friend if you need to counter supeona. What he does is no diffferent than a hostile takeover of any corporation. Keep meeting us here for updates and links. God Bless and together we can.

There is to be some type of presentation on the 15 th of this month at Commission Chambers. I thought it was a presentation by Animal control, but now NHS is going to get to speak as well, what is that ? This is a county meeting about a county funded facility, why do we have a corporation taking up our time. I am furious. I am not sure if I can speak in public comment because it will be on the agenda, so I need to brush up on my county meetings.

To Lori at Tompkins, have you any more news from your area, and anything you can post to help us get more formal in our organization ? I can't speak for others on the blog, but I think this is a great place to share, we stay polite and we learn from each other, I sure don't want to take it over just for our Washoe County issues, but as we are seeing by sharing others who come upon it will know they are not alone. do we have any California readers who could provide news ?

It is my understanding that Winograd tried to infiltrate Florida, and Florida wised up to his failures and told him to take a hike. No Winograd.

Florida selected NACA to be the guide for them, a great choice. I tried to go to the link you posted I can't get it to work, is there another way to access the story ? I think it was the vick story, I am sure it is very different formt eh BF spin. My uncle was a seabee, thanks friend

Hello. The link worked for me, but here is a quote from the news article

Pit Bulls Dumped in Las Vegas
July 2007

"Dozens of dogs rescued from dire conditions, trucked across state lines and left to become someone else's problem. That's what a local rescue group says happened with more than 40 pit bulls.

There's only one pit bull rescue in Las Vegas, and the two-person operation has gone through thousands of dollars trying to save the lives of Utah dogs they say were dumped here in Las Vegas.

Charlene Baroni has worked hard and spent a great deal of time to keep these pit bulls alive after they were seized by a Utah sheriff from a hoarder.

"They were scheduled to be euthanized if they stayed in Washington County, Utah. So, Las Vegas opened their arms to these dogs when nobody else would take them," explains Baroni.

Not even Best Friends, the world's largest animal sanctuary, which is based on a 33,000 acre ranch in a neighboring Southern Utah County, would take them.

"The rescue of pit bulls is seldom just a one-state type of issue. It certainly wasn't Best Friends that did any dumping," says Best Friends spokesperson Russ Meade. "We received a call from Washington County, which happens to be in Utah, and then the animals were transferred to the largest populated area, which is Las Vegas. It would be very difficult to find homes for 40 pit bulls in southern Utah."

It's not easy here, either.

"Of course with the pit bulls, you do have that extra challenge because people abuse them, they hurt them, they think of them as dollar signs or as fighting animals," explains the NSPCA's Doug Duke.

Does it feel like these dogs got dumped on you?

"Yes, I'm gonna be honest. I do feel they were dumped here. I feel that more could be done for them," said Baroni. "



So Best Friends refuses to take pit bulls from Utah their own state, but takes the Vick dogs that come with big cash and is using the Vick dogs to fundraise nonstop.

This is just such an outrage. Best Friends calls itself No Kill, and says it is a No Kill leader, and has a relationship with Winograd and promotes Winograd. But Best Friends turns away animals from their state. These animals ARE GETTING KILLED just by someone else, but Best Friends then starts calling other people and groups that are forced to euthanize, killers. THIS MAKES NO SENSE

I do not understand commissions that would get involved with this kind of fakey stuff. It stinks.

What was the situation with the Gabbs dogs? Was the Gabbs situation a hoarding situation?

Did Nevada Humane Society leave their dogs with a hoarder?

Thank you Seabee
The story on the abandoned pitbulls was very interesting, and I had heard stories about BF turning down pits and then taking the Vick dogs, and it is about the " economy"
There is a fairy tale spin on Best Friends about the Gabbs dogs, and back a few posts , Susan did a marvelous job of getting the details out. The local blogger had several postings and at first everybody was pushing the Gabbs dogs, gradually some locals got to volunteer at the old building where the last 55 were stored, it was not good. The dogs were wild and terrified of people, the last I heard they had been spread out over Northern California in different shelters. it was a hoarding situation and Susan's post is the best description . I know of three dogs in the valley here that were adopted out, and now run feral in new communities. I don't feel the dogs were helped by the shuffle. It was awful and that is why hoarders go to those rural counties. We have a rescue right now that is grabbing every dog it can find to get a donation, it took some of the Gabbs dogs, and the local blogger acts as a sort of fund raising site for them. I would be interested if anybody has heard of one sucessful adoption, that can be confirm.

Thank you shakin.

I know that Best Friends turns away many animals. Somewhere, a BF person gave a figure on how many they refuse a month or a week.

But I heard that when animals are abandoned at the Best Friends Sanctuary, which is often because people thing they are No Kill, the ones that don't run away, BF calls local animal control or a local humane society to pick them up.?

This issue of No Kills that are hoarders, or No Kill shelters that reduce their numbers by giving animals to hoarders, is just so bad.

Here is just one of many recent busts http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/story/344089.html

Foust was running a No Kill shelter, she was taking dogs from the local pound, but also from other No Kill rescuers and people.

They just shipped these animals to her, no questions asked. She told them the lies they wanted to hear I guess. How many animals got shipped to her by No Kill shelters that told people in their areas that the animals were all finding homes?

This desperate numbers game that just focuses on reducing counted animals at the shelter or animals euthanized by sending them to get tortured at a hoarders is something that I never thought I would see happening. But it is happening, and it is getting worse.

Heres a No Kill cat hoarder in PA http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20080314_Death_camp_for_cats_found_near_Pittsburgh.html and there are No Kill extremists that are making excuses for her. (also a nut who writes a column for a PA paper and is a breeder and is connected to puppy mill lobbies, and is opposed to cruelty arrests) It appears No Kill extremists will rationalize any kind of torture. It is some kind of illness that is indescribable- disconnected from reality.

Because of the remote nature of the Gabbs Dogs we will never know for sure what went on. I am certain many carcasses were eaten by wild life and wild dogs. I feel like people who promoite no kill are hoarders by proxy, and 145 dogs had to have some pretty terrifying moments. The local blogger here defends all hoards ( indentfies with ? ) He thinks Wirres did a good job why alive >> hello, could not be done

I found this comment by a Best Friends person about the Gabbs No Kill shelter situations

"Once upon a time, the remote desert community of Gabbs, Nevada—about 150 miles Southeast of Reno—probably seemed like an ideal place to house rescued dogs.There would be no neighbors to be annoyed by the dogs' barking, no zoning/pet limit laws to worry about, and plenty of space for the dogs to roam.

But there would also be no one to care for the dogs or adopt them if the worst happened—and for these dogs, the worst did happen. In May, their rescuer/caregiver died suddenly, leaving them to an uncertain fate."

What jumped out at me is what someone recently sent me to- Nathan Winograd opposes pet limit laws and includes snaky words about them not being allowed in his reports.

Well, that is like saying Hello Hoarder, and Puppy Mill and Dog Fighter! And Best Friends even seems to acknowledge that indirectly. Of course, the breeders don't want Nathan Winograd to support pet limits, because it means that breeders would have to get licensed, so he seems to do a favor for the breeders and the hoarders.

That's bad. Well, clearly Best Friends does not acknowledge that this Gabbs No Kill facility was hell on earth for dogs long before the owner died. They have photos of dogs in pens baking out in the desert. No shelter. Best Friends thought this was ok? Insane!

Thankfully, the person died because it looks like Best Friends never would have done a thing about these dogs getting tortured in the desert in the name of No Kill.

This reminds me of a situation with a No Kill shelter sanctuary in New York called Pets Alive. I followed that on Best Friends. The person who ran it Sara Whalen was taking in tons of animals (especially if she could get in the media) and taking donations, and the animals were just suffering. No other word to call it. Stuffed in crates for their lives & No vet treatment and sick and infected and injured and freezing in the snow or unheated rooms.

Whalen was a classic hoarder, and Best Friends even seemed to acknowledge that. But then any discussion of THAT disappeared. So Best Friends stayed a little while, pulled out in Jan, someone sent me to Pets Alive site. Now run by two volunteers who seem to be floundering. Way over their heads.

They repeat the same Best Friends cheesy attacks on Peta and other groups, calling them killers, and how great No Kill is, and how freaking great Sara Whalen was. Total denial of the torture chamber this place was with Whalen, (and still would be if she hadn't died!) who also apparently used to call other humane groups killers because they didn't agree with hoarding.

Whalen was following the same MO, set up in an area with no laws, and hoard.

the bizarre thing is, these Pets alive people attack Peta about pit bulls because Peta says to stop the breeding, (again more Best Friends Winograd type stuff) but Pets Alive ARE NOT TAKING ANY PIT BULLS and no dogs from NY pounds. These No Kill people are letting pit bulls die! then saying it is Peta's fault. Totally crazy.

it is just over the top. The hypocrisy of all of this is just unbelievable.

This No Kill thing seems to rationalize hoarding and abuse, and the animals only get relief if they are lucky enough to have the No Kill hoarder die!

It seems to me that Gabbs and Pets Alive would be continuing to run No Kill torture chambers if the people running them hadn't died, and Best Friends and Winograd would not lift a finger. Situation gets public, they rush in to clean up and say everything is ok. Well, Best Friends not Winograd. He just ignores the whole issue and says no pet limits for the puppy mill breeders and hoarders.

I found this written about the Gabbs situation. It seems to really approach honesty about this mess, with the exception that it appears that even though HSUS bailed this situation in a big way, Best Friends didn't cope but took credit anyway! And then Best Friends always tries to stab HSUS in the back even though Best Friends did practically nothing, and HSUS came through.

I guess that even though Best Friends doesn't do anything, they want to make it sound like they do it.

"Last May, Dama Louise Wirries passed away unexpectedly, left no will, and her family had to sort out the details of her estate more or less unaided. The scenario is nothing new, with the exception that her estate happened to include 144 dogs on a ranch in Gabbs, Nevada; one was pregnant, later bringing the total to 149. Further complicating the matter was the fact that the property was a rental. Wirries' last wishes, while not put into writing, were that her dogs all be euthanized, because certainly no one could give them the level of care she had provided.

That level of care included flimsy pens constructed with light gauge welded wire, houses made of hay rolls where more dominant dogs kept the others from coming inside, and for most of the animals, no human contact whatsoever. Many of the dogs were running free, or going from pen to pen at will. While the first 70 or so dogs on the ranch were spayed or neutered, as more dogs arrived, Wirries lost control of the situation and uncontrolled breeding began to take place, resulting in inbred puppies and an ever-growing, impending disaster. Only two things separated the nightmare in Gabbs from most other animal hoarding cases, that the dogs were not starving, and that Wirries' landlord and her family, most notably her niece, Linda Bailey, stepped in to ensure that an end came to the situation and the dogs found new homes. Euthanasia for 149 dogs was out of the question.

Bailey called the Best Friends Animal Society in Kanab, Utah, current home to the pit bulls confiscated from Michael Vick. They were unable to take all the dogs, but through their contacts with other animal welfare organizations, including the Humane Society of the United States and California-based United Animal Nations, two organizations specializing in emergency sheltering, they were able to ensure that all of them got another chance."

I'm sorry, by "bailed" I meant that HSUS came in and helped the Gabbs situation in a big way while Best Friends barely lifted a finger.

Do you have a no kill in your area ? We do and we have the " remote rescues" I think your information sheds light on the relationsip between the two. Let me know if you want some Seattle links ..... we have people from all over the west coast and a couple from back east so it is interesting to follow who has been hit, and who has got it coming their way. There are a couple of good links on this blog
http://ricknbaby0076.blogspot.com/

there is a new post on kcascreatures.blogspot.com with all the council member addresses and requesting that if we would share our experiences with them,it might help.
I doubt it would; but if it may help the animals it is worth the try. My experience has been they don't like the spotlight on them and the fact that the above blog is getting attention from far away is a great thing... They really like to keep things hidden.

I went there in search of comments on the upcoming council meeting on the 14th of this month and I looked for new information . I don't know if it is a time situation or due to pressure from Winograds group. They sure stifled any healthy debate in all the other places that they take over.

I am finally getting over here and it seems like you have closed up shop. Some people from here have been getting together at
http:ricknbaby0076.blogspot.com/
If you have an interest in the subject or information that could be helpful please drop by.

Both King County and Wahoe County were supportative of the Animal Services Departments. There is a clear understanding that compassion and reality can share the same world. Susan we miss you, you disappeared so quickly, I hope they didn't do the Ardena thing to you. Deatial on both counties are posted on kcascreatures.blogspot.com from there you can link to advice from oreo

Actually, I've been really busy with out-of-town business and not checking in regularly. I was just checking to see what was going on when I saw the above message. I've read Oreo and KCAS's blogs today, too. I just finished reading the King County Animal Control response to Winograd. I'm glad the commission up there seems skeptical of him. I hope Washoe County will be just as skeptical of Bonney and Winograd.

I have followed both sites, the latest kcas looks like the media is trying to undo the work the council did. Oreo's site is matching what I saw there, I was in the back so it was hard to hear everything. Bonney came in and sat with Mitch, Diane Sally. Debbie Kelly came in later. Sabatoni was with Karen Stark and someone I didn't recognize. Nobody even noticed me so I am a forgotten volunteer. So much for brand loyalty. The board did seem on top of things I hope they stay the course.

the king county post is very impressive, and there does seem to be an issue, I wait to hear what their legal dept saays. I will mail it to ours here. Did I fill you in on who was at the commission meeting ? Might have been put on Oreo's

Per Oreo Winograd does not have a business license in Reno. Oreo sniffed it out.

Going back over Winograds posts to Ardena's article he signed himself as the nokilladvocacy.That may be just enough of a spin to have a computer check miss him. that name was not mentioned on the kcas site. Oreo can you fetch ?

I had more than one email mentioning they ( Reno Business License ) had checked the the data base for anything saying No Kill, apparently they had a few calls. Oreo is pretty sure there is no request pending, but that is not confirmed. Has anyone else noted the change to come in June on Chapter 82 for non profits ? Check your friendly NRS

So what's the deal do you think?

Winograd seems to vaguely imply to all that this is a nonprofit thing. But if the checks are in his SS# then this is getting deposited as his direct income? Could that be?

What are the rules on all that for nonprofits?

If someone claims they are nonprofit but are instead cashing the checks as personal income?

Would this be referring to the comment on the kcas blog about an SS# in place of a id number ?? Now that you bring it up it is so obvious, but I sure missed it. Thanks we will head that direction.

Ed is pushing BB now, calling Reno a Success !! Incredible. The numbers are down but that is because the commission hasbeen doing reviews, I think the guy is to bent to ever straighten ou but susan could try.Winograd is really after LA

An associate sent a pdf of the 990 ez form for 501 c that was filed as a personal for Nate and wife Jennifer. Go look it up, great stuff on there..

Where is that pdf?

It has been tricky to get a link for it but I will try .gimmie 10

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2006/201/648/2006-201648359-02cfbf03-Z.pdf

Nearly $13,000 for office supplies and misc?

That doesn't even include printing, postage, publication, shipping?

"Program fees and contracts including government fees and contracts"

Zero.

So where does the consulting money go? Like the $15,000 plus expenses for King County contract?

And that contract had Nathan's Social Security number, NOT the tax id number of this organization?

And what about his book sales income? The book that the breeders are pushing people to buy, that get pushed at the "talks" Winograd gives?

The figures were as outrageous as his other claims, I am trying to find out if he needs a business license, perhaps 501c groups are somehow exempt. I am left to assume the PSA agreement between Washoe County and NHS is the " contract". He doesn't have an office address so how many supplies does he need.... I am guessing he is counting his solication pamphlets as " office Expense" He is a one man show, , I worry about King County, they are not using the verbiage, so that is a good sign, but they have some really terrific support to stop the stupidity, if they listen. Are you following kcascreatures [at] blogspot.com' and Advice From Oreo, just google her.There are new links on those sites, Tucsan and Indianpolis are the next targets.. Nobody wants to run this guy out of business, but if he were honest he could make a living and stop endangering all animals in custody.

When you go to the Advice From Oreo site and click on the link to the Tuscon Winograd story it asks for donations and has a place to download his fliers etc. Is he panhandling for a living or what and how do people know what they donate for " local" spay nueter goes there ?? This is not a charitable man. I cannot remember the URL but go to google and type in the name, it is under the enron post.

It is crazy that an editor is allowing shilling for fake "contributions" that go to NO charitable effort

Aren't they supposed to watch for cons like this, not promote them?

Our local rgj blogger really shills for him, gives lots of exposure, and the paper does nothing.. He did get moved online and I don't think he is usually in the real paper these days. Another published " forever" home for yet another poor Gabbs dog. I know money is tight, but you can't turn Animal services over to volunteers.. They lack knowledge and skill, and committment with out those attributes , doesn't help much.

according to the newpaper blog 488 dogs were killed at WCRAS in 2007, NHS killed 174 Ms. Brown admits there is some discrepancy in there but she doesn't know where the other dogs went. So the no kill shelter killed almost half as many as the "pound" This started when Mark posted that 670 dogs were killed in washoe county in 2007, his implication was they were wcras stats, so Sheldon, I think I have seen him on here, called the county for stats and then asked MD to explain. finally an answer with numbers in it

I only hope this makes things better ! Their image has suffered terrible witha ll the negative campaigns and firings. Where did susan go, and I keep looking for seabee. the email I got said Nathan lost his home and his wife has a different address so maybe that is why he is moving to SF

Seabee here.

Nathan lost his home and wife?

This No Kill zealotry destroys people's minds and lives. Someone as hostile and hateful as Nathan just had to have other issues.

He is constantly attacking everyone to promote himself. No surprise it extended to personal affairs.

A real estate person ( apparently ) had the information and shared with someone who used to be a Wingrad supporter, cuurently posting on Advice From Oreo.
That type of fanaticism is distructive to anything near. He now lists his address at La Salle street in Oakland Ca. I should run the California bar and see if he has gone active. That could be tricky after being absent longer that he worked in his degree. His rhetoric would tame for a little while and then explode outward again. So much anger, so little common sense. Think how many animals could have been helped if he had only tried to think !

Must be setting the stage for allowing dog aggressive dogs to be adopted into the unsuspecting public.

There are few dogs that are euthanized for aggression at NHS even when they show obvious and overt signs of aggression.

Dogs brought back for aggression are adopted out to another unsuspecting adopter. Some dogs are adopted out 3 and 4 times before the dog disappears.

This sort of adoption policy comes back to bite the shelter because many adopters don't come back for another dog. They sour on the shelter and look elsewhere for pets including puppies at pet stores. Imagine that!

I think the aforementioned No Kill shelter is losing more than it admits. One former ( recent) employee said he complained that he would not walk an animal to its death after caring for it for 6 months. He was told to do it or leave. He left.
I told him that at some point an animal is no longer adoptable. He didn't want to hear that, so maybe he can hook up with David P. somewhere and join the gurus. you can personally love or care very much for a dog aggressive dog, but adopting it out is unconsionible (sp ). One friend of mine is still having a trainer come to her house for a dog that bites humans and attacks other dogs, guess where she got it. I don't like to trash a shelter, but this one does some very irresponsible stuff. She has had the dog for 6 months now and is going to get a lawsuit yet. I do wish that would bite NHS on the butt. Also on Advice from Oreo there is one commentor who adopted a pair she has has a trainer for. Two male pit "brothers" that fight like hell. Oreo's blog is not controversial, but she does stick to her point. Dog aggressive dogs should not be put on the unsuspecting public, and proof shold be required for all adoptions that the new owner has been warned. I don't know why anyone would adopt knowingly, an aggressive dog, when so many are destroyed that have a lot going for them. Dog fighting ?

I saw a post in Washinton state about how they would handle that. Once the shelter releases the bite dog with full signed off knowledge to the foster, who will guarantee the new family will be told? I have seen bite dogs on petharbor from our No Kill shelter ( the owner surrender side ) and I am wondering if it is enough to tell someone " this dogs hates kids" and then put it up for adoption. I think the same temrperment testing for the public should appy to rescues. After all the goal of the foster is to put it in a home, and we all know that fosters often are over booked and can't train. we are interested in changing the direction our facility on Longley Lane in Reno is takng right now. If you feel you can be of service please go to ricknbaby0076.blogspot.com/ and share your thoughts with us. Sometimes Advice Form Oreo will come up on a search engine, but not always the entire site.

Bite dogs should not be fostered out whether there is full disclosure or not. It's my understanding that legally a disclosure would be considered an acknowledgement that the animal is dangerous and set a shelter or rescue up for a lawsuit should the dog ever bite again. I've been told by insurance agents that the same thing applies to "Beware of Dog" signs on people's fences and houses. Again, it is an admission of a dangerous animal. Because of liability issues for shelters, temperament testing in shelters was created. It was not originally created to prevent euthanasia of misunderstood dogs, as some believe. It was a proactive protective measure to prevent the shelter from getting sued due in our actively litigious society. Disclosure by a rescue is not going prevent a lawsuit no matter how well intentioned they are.

I won't have a sign for the reasons you mentioned Why would anyone advertise they were stupid enough to keep a dangerous dog. Working protection dogs are not a danger to anyone if they are fully trained. It is the amatuers who are making things hairy. For a while it seemed every other dog on NHS petharbor carried some bite warning. Often carefully couched but there. ( doesn't want food touched, protective of his toys, bed, owner, nips at strangers ) The black Scotty comes to mind as the most blatant.

I'm a little late here but I saw Shakin' asking for California reporting and here I am. I have a blog that has good info on Whine-ograd's consultation on the Rancho cucamonga Shelter, a publically owned open door shelter that pre-Whine-ograd was the shining star of the Inland Empire, if not all of Southern California. It failed within 3 months of implementing his program. My blog contains info showing Rancho's "public" surrenders went thru the roof after "no kill" was implemented. In fact, it is so bad that twice articles in the newspapers have stated the director swears they are NOT "no kill" in an effort to stop everyone and their brother from bringing their pets as strays. http://www.workingtohelpanimalstodaytomorrow.blogspot.com

I heartily recomend the blog to Susan and Seabee, Shakin or any of the other brave souls who have stepped up here.

Winograd did a consult in Philadelphia. His PACCA was running animal control as a Winograd No Kill program with someone related to Best Friends running it for Winograd.

Bad bad things, animals dying, animals handed to animal abusers, disease, death, animals killing each other in cages, going untreated

Thisa is what No Kill does to animals in open admission shelters

What was going on at Winograd PACCA http://www.packalies.org

Philadelphia kicked the Winograd people out but this is what Winograd wants to force on other cities

Time to get the info out to the Philly folks. nice to see ya seabee times 4 you have been missed. do yoou post on Oreo ?

7 Things You Didn’t Know About HSUS
(the Humane Society of the United States)

1. The Humane Society of the United States(HSUS) is a “humane society” in name only, since it doesn’t operate a single pet shelter or pet adoption facility anywhere in the United States. During 2006, HSUS contributed only 4.2 percent of its budget to organizations that operate hands-on dog and cat shelters. In reality, HSUS is a wealthy animal-rights lobbying organization (the largest and richest on earth) that agitates for the same goals as PETA and other radical groups.

2. Beginning on the day of NFL quarterback Michael Vick’s2007 dog fighting indictment, HSUS raised money online with the false promise that it would “care for the dogs seized in the Michael Vick case.” The New York Times later reported that HSUS wasn’t caring for Vick’s dogs at all. And HSUS president Wayne Pacelle told the Times that his group recommended that government officials “put down” (that is, kill) the dogs rather than adopt them out to suitable homes. HSUS later quietly altered its Internet fundraising pitch.

3. HSUS’s senior management includes a former spokesman for the Animal Liberation Front(ALF), a criminal group designated as “terrorists” by the FBI. HSUS president Wayne Pacelle hired John “J.P.” Goodwin in 1997, the same year Goodwin described himself as “spokesperson for the ALF” while he fielded media calls in the wake of an ALF arson attack at a California veal processing plant. In 1997, when asked by reporters for a reaction to an ALF arson fire at a farmer’s feed co-op in Utah (which nearly killed a family sleeping on the premises), Goodwin replied, “We’re ecstatic.” That same year, Goodwin was arrested at a UC Davis protest celebrating the 10-year anniversary of an ALF arson at the university that caused $5 million in damage. And in 1998, Goodwin described himself publicly as a “former member of ALF.”

4.HSUS raised a reported $34 million in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, supposedly to help reunite lost pets with their owners. But comparatively little of that money was spent for its intended purpose. Louisiana’s Attorney General shuttered his 18-month-long investigation into where most of these millions went, shortly after HSUS announced its plan to contribute $600,000 toward the construction of an animal shelter on the grounds of a state prison. Public disclosures of the disposition of the $34 million in Katrina-related donations add up to less than $7 million.

5. After gathering undercover video footage of improper animal handling at a Chino, CA slaughterhouse during November of 2007, HSUS sat on its video evidence for three months, even refusing to share it with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. HSUS’s Dr. Michael Greger testified before Congress that the San Bernardino County (CA) District Attorney’s office asked the group “to hold on to the information while they completed their investigation.” But the District Attorney’s office quickly denied that account, even declaring that HSUS refused to make its undercover spy available to investigators if the USDA were present at those meetings. Ultimately, HSUS chose to release its video footage at a more politically opportune time, as it prepared to launch a livestock-related ballot campaign in California. Meanwhile, meat from the slaughterhouse continued to flow into the U.S. food supply for months.

6. According to a 2008 Los Angeles Times investigation, less than 12 percent of money raised for HSUS by California telemarketers actually ends up in HSUS’s bank account. The rest is kept by professional fundraisers. And if you exclude two campaigns run for HSUS by the “Build-a-Bear Workshop” retail chain, which consisted of the sale of surplus stuffed animals (not really “fundraising”), HSUS’s yield number shrinks to just 3 percent. Sadly, this appears typical. In 2004, HSUS ran a telemarketing campaign in Connecticut with fundraisers who promised to return a minimum of zero percent of the proceeds. The campaign raised over $1.4 million. Not only did absolutely none of that money go to HSUS, but the group paid $175,000 for the telemarketing work.

7. Research shows that HSUS’s heavily promoted U.S. “boycott” of Canadian seafood—announced in 2005 as a protest against Canada’s annual seal hunt—is a phony exercise in media manipulation. A 2006 investigation found that 78 percent of the restaurants and seafood distributors described by HSUS as “boycotters” weren’t participating at all. Nearly two-thirds of them told surveyors they were completely unaware HSUS was using their names in connection with an international boycott campaign. Canada’s federal government is on record about this deception, saying: “Some animal rights groups have been misleading the public for years … it’s no surprise at all that the richest of them would mislead the public with a phony seafood boycott.”

Want evidence? Visit http://www.AnimalScam.com • http://www.ActivistCash.com • http://www.consumerfreedom.com
Revised October 2008. Complete sources and documentation available upon request.

We all know what the source is, why was it posted / Did I miss something ?

Elizabeth comes from NAIA, the pro-animal abuse AKC breeder fanatical group.

They bash humane societies and groups that want things like puppy mill laws, because the breeders are running puppy mills or the AKC gets their reg money.

Thought this thread needed updating to bring it current with the year - and the fraudulent dog breeders' "no kill" agenda.

People are now starting, slowly but nevertheless, to wake up to who and what are truly behind this agenda that has been, and is being, pushed so feverishly by the dog breeders and numerous other animal USE industries.

They operate under the guise of being concerned about the animals. That is a crock of dog poop.

They care about Akc and dog breeders.

Shelter dogs and cats be damned.

http://nokillexposed.wordpress.com/googlesays/

..... stay the %$# out of our animal shelters - he, and his dog breeder
agenda, need to get out of the "welfare" business.

Akc has apparently bought and paid for him and his covert agenda.......
so let him head on back up to NY, pick up his paycheck and join the
breeders circle.