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FBI arrests effective activists
On September 12th Josh Connole, a known environmentalist and peace activist, was arrested by the FBI. The FBI is accusing Josh of being involved with the arson and vandalism of SUV dealerships in West Covina CA, resulting in over a million dollars of damages. The FBI is charging the WRONG man! Although they have no evidence connecting Josh to this incident, the FBI, along with the ATF, had been following him for several weeks. After his arrest, the FBI turned their attention to his home, the Regenerative Cooperative, also home to 14 other co-op members, and surrounded the house for hours while waiting for state and federal warrants to search the co-op. After a grueling and dehumanizing wait, Regen V was searched by the FBI and ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) while residents stood out on the streets watching their home being torn apart throughout the night. Among items seized were over half a dozen computers; most of Regen’s residents are students from the Claremont colleges, CalPoly Pomona, and Cal State Fullerton. Regen V is a Cooperative that promotes environmental sustainability and community.
Just like the false arrest and imprisonment of Sherman Austin, the FBI are at it again. Their continued frustration and ineffectiveness at finding the truth has them grabbing at straws and arresting the wrong people. Anyone who critisizes the corporate power structure and is effective at getting this message across like Sherman and Josh are suspect of violence. Sherman and Josh were outspoken and logical in their arguments against the destructive corporate power structure. Perhaps this is why the FBI sees them as a threat..
"FREE JOSH CONNOLE!
RE: FEDS RAID SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE STUDENTS
The word Fascism harkens from an extreme worship of the " fasces", a bundle of sticks, carried by special officers as the symbol of Roman state power.
Abuse of state power occurs often, in small measure; when it is institutionalized and overweening, Liberty weeps, and Freedom withers. It is not only the values and hopes of those afflicted by the excesses, it is the vast influence of example, which smothers and destroys in all of us the joys of personal expression and freedom of speech, that which makes life worth living.
On Sept. 12 and 13, the awful face of the future was revealed. The broad exercise of unjustified power brought tears to Liberty, and to the gentle people who live in two houses in Pomona, students mostly, who devote their lives to leaving a light footprint on the environment. People who eschew hypocracy, people who try to live in accordance with their beliefs--the Regen Coop, http://www.Regen.org
These "Regens" are the folks who volunteer for community service, who will help you if your car is stalled, who will listen to your troubles and who pick up after themselves.
Folks who, in four years, have never lost a dollar through theft -- until the FBI descended upon them under false pretenses. In a modest-income area, the first raiders and destroyers of the peace in this caring environment were State forces of what is misleadingly called "law and order".
In this case, the FBI was the only disturber of the peace.
Liberty, and the gentle Regens, were left weeping."
"FREE JOSH CONNOLE!
RE: FEDS RAID SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE STUDENTS
The word Fascism harkens from an extreme worship of the " fasces", a bundle of sticks, carried by special officers as the symbol of Roman state power.
Abuse of state power occurs often, in small measure; when it is institutionalized and overweening, Liberty weeps, and Freedom withers. It is not only the values and hopes of those afflicted by the excesses, it is the vast influence of example, which smothers and destroys in all of us the joys of personal expression and freedom of speech, that which makes life worth living.
On Sept. 12 and 13, the awful face of the future was revealed. The broad exercise of unjustified power brought tears to Liberty, and to the gentle people who live in two houses in Pomona, students mostly, who devote their lives to leaving a light footprint on the environment. People who eschew hypocracy, people who try to live in accordance with their beliefs--the Regen Coop, http://www.Regen.org
These "Regens" are the folks who volunteer for community service, who will help you if your car is stalled, who will listen to your troubles and who pick up after themselves.
Folks who, in four years, have never lost a dollar through theft -- until the FBI descended upon them under false pretenses. In a modest-income area, the first raiders and destroyers of the peace in this caring environment were State forces of what is misleadingly called "law and order".
In this case, the FBI was the only disturber of the peace.
Liberty, and the gentle Regens, were left weeping."
For more information:
http://regen.org/
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Man claims role in SUV vandalism
Los Angeles Times Thursday, September 18, 2003
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A man claiming membership in the Earth Liberation Front has told the Los Angeles Times that he helped firebomb a San Gabriel Valley car dealership and vandalize three others last month and said that the Pomona man arrested by the FBI last week had nothing to do with the crimes.
Communicating via three e-mails and in two telephone interviews during the past three days, the man provided details of the attack that authorities said were known only by investigators and those involved in the incidents.
The caller said he and others had vandalized and set fire to Hummers and other SUVs on Aug. 22 to draw attention to pollution caused by the vehicles. The ELF is a loose association of militant environmentalists that has taken responsibility for vandalism across the United States.
The caller said he had contacted the Times on Monday by e-mail to make sure that Josh Connole was "not unfairly convicted." Connole, 25, was released later Monday after authorities said they did not have enough evidence to charge him with last month's vandalism and arson fires.
Connole remains a suspect, according to police.
Los Angeles Times Thursday, September 18, 2003
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A man claiming membership in the Earth Liberation Front has told the Los Angeles Times that he helped firebomb a San Gabriel Valley car dealership and vandalize three others last month and said that the Pomona man arrested by the FBI last week had nothing to do with the crimes.
Communicating via three e-mails and in two telephone interviews during the past three days, the man provided details of the attack that authorities said were known only by investigators and those involved in the incidents.
The caller said he and others had vandalized and set fire to Hummers and other SUVs on Aug. 22 to draw attention to pollution caused by the vehicles. The ELF is a loose association of militant environmentalists that has taken responsibility for vandalism across the United States.
The caller said he had contacted the Times on Monday by e-mail to make sure that Josh Connole was "not unfairly convicted." Connole, 25, was released later Monday after authorities said they did not have enough evidence to charge him with last month's vandalism and arson fires.
Connole remains a suspect, according to police.
"I’m curious, if not terrorism, what do you call it?"
---
During the past decade we have witnessed dramatic changes in the nature of the terrorist threat. In the 1990s, right-wing extremism overtook left-wing terrorism as the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country. During the past several years special interest extremism, as characterized by the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), has emerged as a serious terrorist threat. Generally, extremist groups engage in much activity that is protected by constitutional guarantees of free speech and assembly. Law enforcement becomes involved when the volatile talk of these groups transgresses into unlawful action. The FBI estimates that the ALF/ELF have committed more than 600 criminal acts in the United States since 1996, resulting in damages in excess of 43 million dollars.
...
Disaffected environmentalists, in 1980, formed a radical group called "Earth First!" and engaged in a series of protests and civil disobedience events. In 1984, however, members introduced "tree spiking" (insertion of metal or ceramic spikes in trees in an effort to damage saws) as a tactic to thwart logging. In 1992, the ELF was founded in Brighton, England, by Earth First! members who refused to abandon criminal acts as a tactic when others wished to mainstream Earth First!. In 1993, the ELF was listed for the first time along with the ALF in a communique declaring solidarity in actions between the two groups. This unity continues today with a crossover of leadership and membership. It is not uncommon for the ALF and the ELF to post joint declarations of responsibility for criminal actions on their web-sites. In 1994, founders of the San Francisco branch of Earth First! published in The Earth First! Journal a recommendation that Earth First! mainstream itself in the United States, leaving criminal acts other than unlawful protests to the ELF.
http://www.amprogress.org/ResearchOpposition/ResearchOpposition.cfm?ID=127&c=20&Type=s
---
Dont like what the government has to say? Here is what SF Indymedia's spokesperson Nessie has to say about ALF:
"If I caught the bombers, I certainly would not need help from the FBI to give them what they deserve. And yeah, I’m looking. And I’m not the only one, either. I’ve done it before. I was part of a small team of people that did our level best to find the Unabomber before the feds got to him. The others were looking for an interview. I had different plans. ... Unfortunately, I failed. I didn’t even get close. It’s one of the few thing I regret in life. "
by really nessie Friday September 05, 2003 at 11:32 AM
">Your calling animals rights groups terrorists seems to sink even lower in this age of Homelsand Security etc...
It is what it is. Names matter naught. “A rose by any other name . . . “ (etc.)
But I’m curious, if not terrorism, what do you call it?"
by nessie Sunday August 31, 2003 at 06:09 PM
"The use of force to ram animal rights down the world's throat, was a Nazi invention and that the terrorists who bombed HLS are behaving in the Nazi tradition. I'm not calling people names. I'm pointing out that what they are doing is part of a syndrome that started with Nazis, and that Nazis still do today. So do their imitators. You don't have to be a Nazi to act like one, or to act in Nazi interests. "
by nessie Thursday September 11, 2003 at 07:56 AM
"(1.) They are not “fellow” activists, except in the sense that David Duke is an activist, too. Just because you are an activist, doesn’t make you my "fellow." It depends what you are an activist for. "
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/08/1638570_comment.php#1646510
Since ELF and ALF carry out solidarity actions will Nessie record your IPs and either try to go after you himself or call the FBI when he sees Elfies and Alfies posting on here? I dare you to find out.
---
During the past decade we have witnessed dramatic changes in the nature of the terrorist threat. In the 1990s, right-wing extremism overtook left-wing terrorism as the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country. During the past several years special interest extremism, as characterized by the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), has emerged as a serious terrorist threat. Generally, extremist groups engage in much activity that is protected by constitutional guarantees of free speech and assembly. Law enforcement becomes involved when the volatile talk of these groups transgresses into unlawful action. The FBI estimates that the ALF/ELF have committed more than 600 criminal acts in the United States since 1996, resulting in damages in excess of 43 million dollars.
...
Disaffected environmentalists, in 1980, formed a radical group called "Earth First!" and engaged in a series of protests and civil disobedience events. In 1984, however, members introduced "tree spiking" (insertion of metal or ceramic spikes in trees in an effort to damage saws) as a tactic to thwart logging. In 1992, the ELF was founded in Brighton, England, by Earth First! members who refused to abandon criminal acts as a tactic when others wished to mainstream Earth First!. In 1993, the ELF was listed for the first time along with the ALF in a communique declaring solidarity in actions between the two groups. This unity continues today with a crossover of leadership and membership. It is not uncommon for the ALF and the ELF to post joint declarations of responsibility for criminal actions on their web-sites. In 1994, founders of the San Francisco branch of Earth First! published in The Earth First! Journal a recommendation that Earth First! mainstream itself in the United States, leaving criminal acts other than unlawful protests to the ELF.
http://www.amprogress.org/ResearchOpposition/ResearchOpposition.cfm?ID=127&c=20&Type=s
---
Dont like what the government has to say? Here is what SF Indymedia's spokesperson Nessie has to say about ALF:
"If I caught the bombers, I certainly would not need help from the FBI to give them what they deserve. And yeah, I’m looking. And I’m not the only one, either. I’ve done it before. I was part of a small team of people that did our level best to find the Unabomber before the feds got to him. The others were looking for an interview. I had different plans. ... Unfortunately, I failed. I didn’t even get close. It’s one of the few thing I regret in life. "
by really nessie Friday September 05, 2003 at 11:32 AM
">Your calling animals rights groups terrorists seems to sink even lower in this age of Homelsand Security etc...
It is what it is. Names matter naught. “A rose by any other name . . . “ (etc.)
But I’m curious, if not terrorism, what do you call it?"
by nessie Sunday August 31, 2003 at 06:09 PM
"The use of force to ram animal rights down the world's throat, was a Nazi invention and that the terrorists who bombed HLS are behaving in the Nazi tradition. I'm not calling people names. I'm pointing out that what they are doing is part of a syndrome that started with Nazis, and that Nazis still do today. So do their imitators. You don't have to be a Nazi to act like one, or to act in Nazi interests. "
by nessie Thursday September 11, 2003 at 07:56 AM
"(1.) They are not “fellow” activists, except in the sense that David Duke is an activist, too. Just because you are an activist, doesn’t make you my "fellow." It depends what you are an activist for. "
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/08/1638570_comment.php#1646510
Since ELF and ALF carry out solidarity actions will Nessie record your IPs and either try to go after you himself or call the FBI when he sees Elfies and Alfies posting on here? I dare you to find out.
um, earth first and ELF/ALF are really in different categories. Earth first has a journal that you can subscribe to, and a relatively open process for joining i.e. they have meetings, an office (three blocks from my place in Berkeley, for California). Most of what they do as a group isn't illegal - there are just a few individuals who do civil disobedience that they are individually responsible for.
ELF/ALF take different objectives and tactics, and only their spokesman will publicly name himself, - the rest stay anonymous
------
from seattle weekly: After a year of relative quiet on the Seattle animal-rights front, the group Stop Huntington Animal Cruelty (SHAC) last week began a weeklong series of actions against the local offices and employees of biotech giant Chiron. SHAC has been trying to shut down Huntington Life Sciences, a British-based testing firm, since evidence surfaced in the 1990s that HLS employees had, along with other perceived atrocities, punched beagle puppies. SHAC is most active in the United Kingdom and on the East Coast, where HLS has its American headquarters, and has had some success in bleeding HLS of cash flow by agitating against clients and financial partners. SHAC claims that Chiron, an Emeryville, Calif.-based pharmaceutical company, has been an HLS customer, though a Chiron spokesperson says the company does not currently contract for HLS services. Still, a small group of SHAC activists gathered at Chiron's Elliott Avenue West offices on Sept. 11 and shouted at Chiron employees through a megaphone, promising to hound them for their connections to animal research—at their homes, grocery stores, and neighborhood parks. "We won't go away," said Josh Harper, one of the activists. "You've never seen anything like us: We are a pissed-off bunch of activists." PHILIP DAWDY
ELF/ALF take different objectives and tactics, and only their spokesman will publicly name himself, - the rest stay anonymous
------
from seattle weekly: After a year of relative quiet on the Seattle animal-rights front, the group Stop Huntington Animal Cruelty (SHAC) last week began a weeklong series of actions against the local offices and employees of biotech giant Chiron. SHAC has been trying to shut down Huntington Life Sciences, a British-based testing firm, since evidence surfaced in the 1990s that HLS employees had, along with other perceived atrocities, punched beagle puppies. SHAC is most active in the United Kingdom and on the East Coast, where HLS has its American headquarters, and has had some success in bleeding HLS of cash flow by agitating against clients and financial partners. SHAC claims that Chiron, an Emeryville, Calif.-based pharmaceutical company, has been an HLS customer, though a Chiron spokesperson says the company does not currently contract for HLS services. Still, a small group of SHAC activists gathered at Chiron's Elliott Avenue West offices on Sept. 11 and shouted at Chiron employees through a megaphone, promising to hound them for their connections to animal research—at their homes, grocery stores, and neighborhood parks. "We won't go away," said Josh Harper, one of the activists. "You've never seen anything like us: We are a pissed-off bunch of activists." PHILIP DAWDY
Your still missing the point. When you oppress an animal by placing it in confinement, you are depriving it of its freedom. Nobody suggests causing a person to have liver failure. The person with liver failure is dealing with either genetics of consequences of lifestyle (unprotected sex and/or alcoholism). For example, a friend of mine had liver failure from a lifetime of alcoholism. Alcoholism is a societal problem not caused by the animal whose liver you wish to take..
Taking the liver of an innocent animal because of human caused problems is still morally wrong. We all make bad decisions and at some point will suffer the consequences. Even is we live 100 percent as healthy as possible, we all eventually die. If humans didn't get old and die, the world would not have room for new people. Sometimes people are born with a genetic problem like a nonfunctional liver. This is an unfortunate aspect of evolution in a toxic environment. Exposure of either parent to toxins in the environment can cause mutations that are passed on to their descendents..
So again, "Nessie", if u really care about people, try working on limiting exposure to toxins in the environment, dealing with the root cause of the problem. Refined sugar in soda and carcinogens (NOx) from auto emissions are a good place to start. Yes, it requires Americans give up/alter some of their lifestyle, but eventually this will happen anyway. Alcoholism is another example of American excess instead of responsible somewhat healthy drinking in France..
Depending on pharma and organ transplant from HLS is a road to nowhere. We cannot keep taking from nature with the expectation than humans are the best species on Earth and comparing the value of a human life to a pig. Both lives are equally very important and we can show respect for human life by removing the toxins from the environment..
Save a human life from diabetes, boycott Coca-Cola and Pepsi..
Save a child from asthma, boycott petroleum industry..
Taking the liver of an innocent animal because of human caused problems is still morally wrong. We all make bad decisions and at some point will suffer the consequences. Even is we live 100 percent as healthy as possible, we all eventually die. If humans didn't get old and die, the world would not have room for new people. Sometimes people are born with a genetic problem like a nonfunctional liver. This is an unfortunate aspect of evolution in a toxic environment. Exposure of either parent to toxins in the environment can cause mutations that are passed on to their descendents..
So again, "Nessie", if u really care about people, try working on limiting exposure to toxins in the environment, dealing with the root cause of the problem. Refined sugar in soda and carcinogens (NOx) from auto emissions are a good place to start. Yes, it requires Americans give up/alter some of their lifestyle, but eventually this will happen anyway. Alcoholism is another example of American excess instead of responsible somewhat healthy drinking in France..
Depending on pharma and organ transplant from HLS is a road to nowhere. We cannot keep taking from nature with the expectation than humans are the best species on Earth and comparing the value of a human life to a pig. Both lives are equally very important and we can show respect for human life by removing the toxins from the environment..
Save a human life from diabetes, boycott Coca-Cola and Pepsi..
Save a child from asthma, boycott petroleum industry..
Refuting excuses...
by on Sep 08, 2003 - 12:40 AM
Reasons why people hate ELF/ALF, and why these reasons are logically and/or ethically wrong:
1) Freedom
1-a) "You think activists have the right to vandalize others' property just because they don't agree with them?"
No, I think activists, and even ordinary people, have--not the right--the duty to destroy/boycott/change businesses which harm our planet or it's inhabitants (including humans) unnecessarily or greedily.
This common complaint to direct action and its supporters states falsely that activists give themselves rights in the spirit of dissagreement, when in actuality most activists don't use the word "rights" like others do, and some consider the concept of rights to be a falsity alltogether. Additionally, this question fails to realize that most direct action is implimented because activists think an animal's "rights" to life, freedom, and decency and forests' importance to the "rights" of its inhabitants override others' "rights" to a nice-looking coat or unnecessarily-meat-packed diet.
1-b) "So you must be against freedom," and "So you're like a communist."
Although we support direct action against certain industries, a supporter of ELF/ALF such as myself is no more against freedom than an anti-activist who cheers the vigilante destruction of slave-run industries two hundred years ago or agrees with society's expansion, which causes the takeover of indiginous peoples' lands which they freely lived on for centuries, and even mellenia. Likewise, most of us don't want communism, but LESS government control of industry.
This makes no sense whatsoever. It fails to realize PRIORITIZATION. For example: freedom, decency, life, and knowledge are important. But, if one species' abuse of its freedom is causing the freedom, decency, and lives of the entire rest of the world to suffer greatly for no good reason, the freedom of the abusive species must be limited by some amount. Surely nobody should be given the freedom to own slaves who are kept in poor conditions, you would agree. Slavery and unnecessary killing are bad!
Due to being braught up in a world where animals and forests are seen as "resources" rather than living things, and being kept in big cities where we are not given the opportunity to question such a notion, most people are unaware that that is just what we are doing to animals, forests, and even native peoples TO THIS DAY! Looking at things in this way, Activists are willing to take away the freedom to keep animals in shabby conditions and needlessly butcher them, just as their anti-slavery and anti-communist forefathers had to take away certain freedoms. Economically, ecologically, health-wise, and ethically, overdevelopment and meat eating are wrong, and the freedom to allow them to continue should be faught.
2) Ethics
2-a) "You are a hypocrit, because you do this or that."
1. Activists don't want to completely abolish all suffering in the entire world and make death never happen again: this is impossible and quite idealistic. Instead, what we want to do is DECREASE suffering and death as much as possible. Thus, by eating vegan food and living vegan lives whenever we can, we are indeed fulfilling our objective of decreasing suffering and death, and therefore aren't hypocrits.
2. This can be roughly changed into a statement such as "You ain't perfect, so stop trying to be good at all, and stop trying to get others to be good," which is both ignorant and naive. Did you know that there is still actual SLAVERY in the world, and that some of the things you use and do promote it? By this logic, you should just give up and buy a few slaves!
2-a-I) "Farming causes bugs/small animals to die and pollution to be emitted, so you are worse than a meat eater."
This one wouldn't be worth the time to type a response if I didn't see it so much! Pound for pound, calorie for calorie, and nutrient for nutrient, MUCH more farming goes into getting the feed for the animals you eat than growing food directly for human consumption, so vegan diets still cause less suffering and death.
2-a-II) "You use sidewalks/live in buildings made of ___/drive cars."
1. Look at 2-a.
2. Many of us can't live without them, and would gladly give them up if we could. Because society forces us to use them to live, we see them as more of oppressive necessities that should be faught against, rather than luxuries. Basically, "because you're making us." By this logic I could accuse you of hypocricy if you HAD to buy from farms with slaves like many Southerners once had to, or HAD to eat GMO's you may be opposed to because there are no laws which require them to be labelled (another problem which legal action won't fix soon, and which the average person dislikes).
2-b) "Vigilante acts are wrong."
1. Says who? The government said vigilanteism was wrong for obtaining slaves' freedom, womens' sufferage, and non-white-christian-whitecollar-males' rights, but it was mostly vigilant acts which got these. The government said that vigilanteism was wrong to stop the Mexican war, and a century later the vietnam and Korean wars. England said vigilanteism was wrong for lowering taxes and gaining independance. So obviously, the government is going to say that vigilanteism is wrong to get ANYTHING done, so it don't matter what the government says about vigilante acts unless you're afraid of jail, which ELF/ALF members are willing to risk.
2. Why is it wrong? Usually, this question doesn't recieve a decent answer, or the absolutely false answer that vigilanteism never accomplished anything good.
2-b-I) "Violence creates violence."
1. First of all, "violence" is just a word. I never heard the word "violence" used to describe people's homes getting bombed in the middle-east, or destroying forests and needlessly butchering animals for fur or unhealthy food. I never heard the word violence used to describe illegal whaling, or gas-guzzling cars which destroy many innocent creatures. I never heard violence used to describe bulldozing large areas of forest or slums to creat low density luxury housing, and I never heard it used to describe the expanding of empires into places where they aren't welcom (e.g. Rome, England, United States).
The word "violence" can be used to demote one idea while it can be avoided or replaced to promote another. I could say that the average American violently competes with others to get to the top of the status pyramid, promotes the violent destruction of forests and their innocent inhabitants for development, carelessly pollutes our beautiful world to further his/her selfish goals, supports America in its violent wars, agrees that police are allowed to use PHISICAL VIOLENCE to protect the public and political interests, and needlessly butchers innocent animals to fulfill their selfish tastes, while being agressively opposed to ELF and ALF--who only want to decrease undue suffering. Thus, you can use language bias to say ANYBODY is promoting violence: in this case, I used it to show how much worse America promotes violence.
2. Violence creates violence ain't necessarily true. Our law enforcement system proves it. Law enforcement decreases the violence in our country. "But the police don't often use physical violence!" you may say. There are two things wrong here: One, they sometimes even use violence against peaceful people, so this is false and/or innacurate. Two, if it were true, you'd have to admit that the violence of criminals doesn't cause police violence, contradicting yourself.
2-b-II) "You'll become violent."
Utter nonsense. Many of our peace-advocating politicians--presidents, even--faught in wars.
3) Tactics
3-a) "The act you support released more pollution than the car would have through being driven by burning it."
First of all, can you really know how much pollution would be released in either case? But, lets assume this is true. The action will increase insurance premiums for all businesses involved, it will force people to think before buying more gas-guzzlers, and it will stop business for at least a few days, causing major money loss. So, in the long run, and even occasionally in the short run, it causes gas-guzzler production to be much less profitable, and direct action has even shut down a few businesses.
3-b) "Someone could get hurt/killed."
I think the fact that nobody has been hurt or killed by ELF/ALF shows how carefully these things are planned to be safe. Decades of safe action proves it.
3-c) "The group you support alienates other activists."
Actually, other activists criticise and alienate ELF/ALF members more often.
Conclusion: Unless you profit from or support killing our planet, there's no real reason to oppose direct action.
http://greennature.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-Comments&file=index&sid=859&tid=699&mode=&order=&thold=
by on Sep 08, 2003 - 12:40 AM
Reasons why people hate ELF/ALF, and why these reasons are logically and/or ethically wrong:
1) Freedom
1-a) "You think activists have the right to vandalize others' property just because they don't agree with them?"
No, I think activists, and even ordinary people, have--not the right--the duty to destroy/boycott/change businesses which harm our planet or it's inhabitants (including humans) unnecessarily or greedily.
This common complaint to direct action and its supporters states falsely that activists give themselves rights in the spirit of dissagreement, when in actuality most activists don't use the word "rights" like others do, and some consider the concept of rights to be a falsity alltogether. Additionally, this question fails to realize that most direct action is implimented because activists think an animal's "rights" to life, freedom, and decency and forests' importance to the "rights" of its inhabitants override others' "rights" to a nice-looking coat or unnecessarily-meat-packed diet.
1-b) "So you must be against freedom," and "So you're like a communist."
Although we support direct action against certain industries, a supporter of ELF/ALF such as myself is no more against freedom than an anti-activist who cheers the vigilante destruction of slave-run industries two hundred years ago or agrees with society's expansion, which causes the takeover of indiginous peoples' lands which they freely lived on for centuries, and even mellenia. Likewise, most of us don't want communism, but LESS government control of industry.
This makes no sense whatsoever. It fails to realize PRIORITIZATION. For example: freedom, decency, life, and knowledge are important. But, if one species' abuse of its freedom is causing the freedom, decency, and lives of the entire rest of the world to suffer greatly for no good reason, the freedom of the abusive species must be limited by some amount. Surely nobody should be given the freedom to own slaves who are kept in poor conditions, you would agree. Slavery and unnecessary killing are bad!
Due to being braught up in a world where animals and forests are seen as "resources" rather than living things, and being kept in big cities where we are not given the opportunity to question such a notion, most people are unaware that that is just what we are doing to animals, forests, and even native peoples TO THIS DAY! Looking at things in this way, Activists are willing to take away the freedom to keep animals in shabby conditions and needlessly butcher them, just as their anti-slavery and anti-communist forefathers had to take away certain freedoms. Economically, ecologically, health-wise, and ethically, overdevelopment and meat eating are wrong, and the freedom to allow them to continue should be faught.
2) Ethics
2-a) "You are a hypocrit, because you do this or that."
1. Activists don't want to completely abolish all suffering in the entire world and make death never happen again: this is impossible and quite idealistic. Instead, what we want to do is DECREASE suffering and death as much as possible. Thus, by eating vegan food and living vegan lives whenever we can, we are indeed fulfilling our objective of decreasing suffering and death, and therefore aren't hypocrits.
2. This can be roughly changed into a statement such as "You ain't perfect, so stop trying to be good at all, and stop trying to get others to be good," which is both ignorant and naive. Did you know that there is still actual SLAVERY in the world, and that some of the things you use and do promote it? By this logic, you should just give up and buy a few slaves!
2-a-I) "Farming causes bugs/small animals to die and pollution to be emitted, so you are worse than a meat eater."
This one wouldn't be worth the time to type a response if I didn't see it so much! Pound for pound, calorie for calorie, and nutrient for nutrient, MUCH more farming goes into getting the feed for the animals you eat than growing food directly for human consumption, so vegan diets still cause less suffering and death.
2-a-II) "You use sidewalks/live in buildings made of ___/drive cars."
1. Look at 2-a.
2. Many of us can't live without them, and would gladly give them up if we could. Because society forces us to use them to live, we see them as more of oppressive necessities that should be faught against, rather than luxuries. Basically, "because you're making us." By this logic I could accuse you of hypocricy if you HAD to buy from farms with slaves like many Southerners once had to, or HAD to eat GMO's you may be opposed to because there are no laws which require them to be labelled (another problem which legal action won't fix soon, and which the average person dislikes).
2-b) "Vigilante acts are wrong."
1. Says who? The government said vigilanteism was wrong for obtaining slaves' freedom, womens' sufferage, and non-white-christian-whitecollar-males' rights, but it was mostly vigilant acts which got these. The government said that vigilanteism was wrong to stop the Mexican war, and a century later the vietnam and Korean wars. England said vigilanteism was wrong for lowering taxes and gaining independance. So obviously, the government is going to say that vigilanteism is wrong to get ANYTHING done, so it don't matter what the government says about vigilante acts unless you're afraid of jail, which ELF/ALF members are willing to risk.
2. Why is it wrong? Usually, this question doesn't recieve a decent answer, or the absolutely false answer that vigilanteism never accomplished anything good.
2-b-I) "Violence creates violence."
1. First of all, "violence" is just a word. I never heard the word "violence" used to describe people's homes getting bombed in the middle-east, or destroying forests and needlessly butchering animals for fur or unhealthy food. I never heard the word violence used to describe illegal whaling, or gas-guzzling cars which destroy many innocent creatures. I never heard violence used to describe bulldozing large areas of forest or slums to creat low density luxury housing, and I never heard it used to describe the expanding of empires into places where they aren't welcom (e.g. Rome, England, United States).
The word "violence" can be used to demote one idea while it can be avoided or replaced to promote another. I could say that the average American violently competes with others to get to the top of the status pyramid, promotes the violent destruction of forests and their innocent inhabitants for development, carelessly pollutes our beautiful world to further his/her selfish goals, supports America in its violent wars, agrees that police are allowed to use PHISICAL VIOLENCE to protect the public and political interests, and needlessly butchers innocent animals to fulfill their selfish tastes, while being agressively opposed to ELF and ALF--who only want to decrease undue suffering. Thus, you can use language bias to say ANYBODY is promoting violence: in this case, I used it to show how much worse America promotes violence.
2. Violence creates violence ain't necessarily true. Our law enforcement system proves it. Law enforcement decreases the violence in our country. "But the police don't often use physical violence!" you may say. There are two things wrong here: One, they sometimes even use violence against peaceful people, so this is false and/or innacurate. Two, if it were true, you'd have to admit that the violence of criminals doesn't cause police violence, contradicting yourself.
2-b-II) "You'll become violent."
Utter nonsense. Many of our peace-advocating politicians--presidents, even--faught in wars.
3) Tactics
3-a) "The act you support released more pollution than the car would have through being driven by burning it."
First of all, can you really know how much pollution would be released in either case? But, lets assume this is true. The action will increase insurance premiums for all businesses involved, it will force people to think before buying more gas-guzzlers, and it will stop business for at least a few days, causing major money loss. So, in the long run, and even occasionally in the short run, it causes gas-guzzler production to be much less profitable, and direct action has even shut down a few businesses.
3-b) "Someone could get hurt/killed."
I think the fact that nobody has been hurt or killed by ELF/ALF shows how carefully these things are planned to be safe. Decades of safe action proves it.
3-c) "The group you support alienates other activists."
Actually, other activists criticise and alienate ELF/ALF members more often.
Conclusion: Unless you profit from or support killing our planet, there's no real reason to oppose direct action.
http://greennature.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-Comments&file=index&sid=859&tid=699&mode=&order=&thold=
Start setting fire to ELF meeting locations and the cars their activists drive.
See how they like it and then proceed to ignore them as before.
See how they like it and then proceed to ignore them as before.
Nessie, this thread is not about your friends, it about activists getting rounded up by the FBI for actions that may or may not have comitted. Lets say the FBI thought the activist was involved with the bombing at the SUV dealership(they probably werent since the FBI always arrests the wrong people), would you still be so crazed about hunting down the bombers?
And what exactly would you do if you caught them? You said you tried to hunt down the unibomber, what would you have done if you caught him? Tied him to a tree and beat the shit our of him? turned him in to the FBI? Danced around to Bob Dylan music as you slowly cut him with a razor (a la Reservoir Dogs) I'm having weird images in my mind of Dale Gribble... http://www.fox.com/kingofthehill/bios/dale.htm
Speaking of which did you know there is already an Nessie action figure http://moviepostersetc.safeshopper.com/148/4416.htm?482
NAME: Nessie
OCCUPATION: Unemployed Blogger
HOBBIES: Paranoia, browsing the web, cursing about Zionists, ALF and the stale pizza lying on the floor next to the keyboard.
QUOTE: "Guns don't kill people. The Government does." "Your changing the topic" "We don't delete them. We merely move them to a different part of the site. " "An ad hominem is not a
FAVORITE CONSPIRACY: Zionists and Animal Rights activists were behind the Nazis.
And what exactly would you do if you caught them? You said you tried to hunt down the unibomber, what would you have done if you caught him? Tied him to a tree and beat the shit our of him? turned him in to the FBI? Danced around to Bob Dylan music as you slowly cut him with a razor (a la Reservoir Dogs) I'm having weird images in my mind of Dale Gribble... http://www.fox.com/kingofthehill/bios/dale.htm
Speaking of which did you know there is already an Nessie action figure http://moviepostersetc.safeshopper.com/148/4416.htm?482
NAME: Nessie
OCCUPATION: Unemployed Blogger
HOBBIES: Paranoia, browsing the web, cursing about Zionists, ALF and the stale pizza lying on the floor next to the keyboard.
QUOTE: "Guns don't kill people. The Government does." "Your changing the topic" "We don't delete them. We merely move them to a different part of the site. " "An ad hominem is not a
FAVORITE CONSPIRACY: Zionists and Animal Rights activists were behind the Nazis.
"*sshole the Unabomber did. And no, I wont shut up about it. Anywhere you bring it up, I’m going react"
What would you have done if you caught him or if you caught the ALF bombers? You didnt answer?
What would you have done if you caught him or if you caught the ALF bombers? You didnt answer?
"Despite this indication that many ethanol producers are breaking the law and
putting human health and the environment at risk, Congress is now developing
an energy bill that would provide $5 billion in subsidies for the ethanol
industry. Lawmakers would also exempt ethanol producers from any liability
when people become sick from drinking polluted water.
"When ethanol producers violate the Clean Air Act and endanger human health,
Congress should treat them like the corporate polluters they are, not give
them yet more tax breaks," Bookbinder said. "Until these plants clean up
their acts, they deserve fines, not hand outs."
"
http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/pfvs/2002III/msg00924.html
Corporate agribusiness loves ethanol, the US would be able to dominate the worlds energy supply if it were cost effective. Ethanol is already added to gasoline but it isnt exactly a clean fuel source.
Increasing fuel effeciency and looking for longer term solutions (fuel cells etc..) is probably the best longer term solution. SUV's make alternative fuels less likely since low fuel efficiency decreases the prospects for fuels that will start with a higher cost than gasoline..
As for ELF bringing down heat and not acomplishing anything isnt that the same thing Global Exchange keeps saying about the Black Bloc? I havnt heard a good response that wouldnt apply to both cases. Attacking an SUV dealership probably doesnt hurt the workers much (since they tend to be salaried) wheras attacks on Mc Donalds and the GAP can mean that hourly workers dont get pay for the period when the destroyed store is being rebuilt.
putting human health and the environment at risk, Congress is now developing
an energy bill that would provide $5 billion in subsidies for the ethanol
industry. Lawmakers would also exempt ethanol producers from any liability
when people become sick from drinking polluted water.
"When ethanol producers violate the Clean Air Act and endanger human health,
Congress should treat them like the corporate polluters they are, not give
them yet more tax breaks," Bookbinder said. "Until these plants clean up
their acts, they deserve fines, not hand outs."
"
http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/pfvs/2002III/msg00924.html
Corporate agribusiness loves ethanol, the US would be able to dominate the worlds energy supply if it were cost effective. Ethanol is already added to gasoline but it isnt exactly a clean fuel source.
Increasing fuel effeciency and looking for longer term solutions (fuel cells etc..) is probably the best longer term solution. SUV's make alternative fuels less likely since low fuel efficiency decreases the prospects for fuels that will start with a higher cost than gasoline..
As for ELF bringing down heat and not acomplishing anything isnt that the same thing Global Exchange keeps saying about the Black Bloc? I havnt heard a good response that wouldnt apply to both cases. Attacking an SUV dealership probably doesnt hurt the workers much (since they tend to be salaried) wheras attacks on Mc Donalds and the GAP can mean that hourly workers dont get pay for the period when the destroyed store is being rebuilt.
Your article about hanging out with your buds drinking beer and walking through the woods talking about weapons and ammo and looking for the unibomber doesnt seem to answer what you would do if you had caught him.
If you hadnt been the one to link to that I would have thought it a rather strange parody of conspiracy nuts....
If you hadnt been the one to link to that I would have thought it a rather strange parody of conspiracy nuts....
Hepatitis can be passed through drinking contaminated water. Drinking contaminated water usually happens when you are poor and can't afford filtration or if you go to a place that is poor and can't afford filtration.
The person who blamed liver damage on the sufferer just blamed poor people as well. That's not very nice.
The person who blamed liver damage on the sufferer just blamed poor people as well. That's not very nice.
And after you beat him up just left him in the woods? Would you have killed him or just given him a black eye?
Your posted link doesnt seem to relate much to anything.
Near the end you mention something about helping the feds. Im guessing your real intention was to find him and turn him in to the FBI. Would you do the same for ALF activists? ELF Activists?
Of course it hardly matters since your story doesnt make you sound like someone who could catch anyone. But, you are the editor of this website so there is always the danger of you tracking IPs (dont claim its not possible nobody is that stupid). The end result would be you turning in some 16 year old kid claiming to be part of ALF to look cool, but it still should be of concern to fellow activists.
"Two guys got drunk with a tape recorder one day...
...
Nessie: Wait. Back up a minute. You're back at Ft. Benning; you're being trained in demolitions. What demolitions? What'd they teach you?
...
Fred: Use of high- and low-order explosives, grenades, RPGs, lots of stuff like that. A lot of that was covered in AIT, also. But mostly use of explosives with an aim towards destroying ammunition dumps, critical equipment. It wasn't like anti-personnel stuff. It was mostly because of recon. Sometimes a recon mission would be not to just find something. If we found something that was real spooky we would be activated to like blow it up and go bug out. You know, try to cripple the enemy, try to cripple Charlie, give him a black eye if nothing else
...
Nessie: What drugs were you taking?
Fred: Marijuana, LSD, opiates . . . uh, that's where I really started losing it.
Nessie: That's what the war was about, really. Ain't nothing else over there WORTH fighting over. Fighting's expensive. I mean, what they got besides dope there? Rice? Hey man, like America exports rice. We sell the shit to China. Rice!?! Sheeeeit. We got rice like snow got white.
...
Fred: He was showing off what he knew, and he knew his shit. He knew what C-3 is. A lot of people don't know there is such a thing as C-3. There's not just C-4. There's C-5! There's C-7! And there's Simatek, and there's other things and this guy knew all this stuff. And he knew it all well. He knew what det-cord was. He knew what various types of blasting caps were, what magnesium delay fuses were, he knew his shit.
...
Fred: Totally legit. So any rate the boss had this bug up his ass about this emergency lighting system. He wanted this thing . . . it woulda cost him thirty dollars to get a new one . . . but he wanted me to go back there with another member of the crew and take the ones that were there. So fine. I go back there, do what he says. I'm a team player. I climb up on the ladder. I'm the only one on the crew that knew anything about electricity. These were running on 230 volt, three phase.
...
Nessie: How tall a ladder?
....
.... (pages later)
...
Fred: Near here. And I called 1-800-UNABOMB, their tip line. I described the incident. First of all I got some lady. The lady asked me the basics of it. I ran it down as quickly as I could. She put me onto some other guy. I ran it down to him. Finally some guy who seems to know what he's talking about comes on the line.
...
...
...
Nessie: Hold on a minute. Cut. Brief interruption.
(I took a break to take a piss. I come back. There's a letter under his door. I give him the letter. He read it. He had been going to get a job at the Exploratorium, and doing cool, creative stuff, with his skills. The letter nixed that. Yet another job has slipped through Fred's fingers. He's obviously upset, but tries to hide it.)
Fred: Yeah. Well they just postponed the addition of another staff member. That's all it is. At this time. They're restructuring.
Nessie: Think you've been blacklisted?
...
...somehow the topic finally comes back to the unibomber again
...
Fred: We were talking about this FBI thing, and the Unabomber and stuff, and . . .
Nessie: Who we? Sam and Bruno . . .
Fred: Sam and a couple people. I don't even know who they were. We were talking about it. And shortly after I got there a guy in a cheap suit, tie loose, top button undone, sits down at the other end of the bar. I didn't even really pay him no never mind.
...
Nessie: (to tape recorder)For the benefit of the people reading this later, I should mention that this guy is white.
(to Fred) OK, so they're giving you what's called the "nigger shuffle," you should pardon the expression. It's what any Black person in America knows he's getting when he's not getting that job or not getting that apartment that he knows is there, but they're smiling at him and being polite anyway but they lie through their teeth. Happens alla time. Bosses do it. Landlords . . . just not all that often to white folks. Most white folks, that is. I guess you're different.
...
Fred: Industrial robot flipped out on me.
Nessie: Same company?
Fred: No.
Nessie: Did you have any problem with Workman's Comp. or anything over this one?
Fred: Well yeah. They're paying candy on this one, too.
(At this point, the tape ran out. I let it. We drank on. We may even have said something else interesting. But you get the idea by now. Helping the Feds doesn't pay.)
"
http://www.transbay.net/~nessie/Pages/fred.html
Your posted link doesnt seem to relate much to anything.
Near the end you mention something about helping the feds. Im guessing your real intention was to find him and turn him in to the FBI. Would you do the same for ALF activists? ELF Activists?
Of course it hardly matters since your story doesnt make you sound like someone who could catch anyone. But, you are the editor of this website so there is always the danger of you tracking IPs (dont claim its not possible nobody is that stupid). The end result would be you turning in some 16 year old kid claiming to be part of ALF to look cool, but it still should be of concern to fellow activists.
"Two guys got drunk with a tape recorder one day...
...
Nessie: Wait. Back up a minute. You're back at Ft. Benning; you're being trained in demolitions. What demolitions? What'd they teach you?
...
Fred: Use of high- and low-order explosives, grenades, RPGs, lots of stuff like that. A lot of that was covered in AIT, also. But mostly use of explosives with an aim towards destroying ammunition dumps, critical equipment. It wasn't like anti-personnel stuff. It was mostly because of recon. Sometimes a recon mission would be not to just find something. If we found something that was real spooky we would be activated to like blow it up and go bug out. You know, try to cripple the enemy, try to cripple Charlie, give him a black eye if nothing else
...
Nessie: What drugs were you taking?
Fred: Marijuana, LSD, opiates . . . uh, that's where I really started losing it.
Nessie: That's what the war was about, really. Ain't nothing else over there WORTH fighting over. Fighting's expensive. I mean, what they got besides dope there? Rice? Hey man, like America exports rice. We sell the shit to China. Rice!?! Sheeeeit. We got rice like snow got white.
...
Fred: He was showing off what he knew, and he knew his shit. He knew what C-3 is. A lot of people don't know there is such a thing as C-3. There's not just C-4. There's C-5! There's C-7! And there's Simatek, and there's other things and this guy knew all this stuff. And he knew it all well. He knew what det-cord was. He knew what various types of blasting caps were, what magnesium delay fuses were, he knew his shit.
...
Fred: Totally legit. So any rate the boss had this bug up his ass about this emergency lighting system. He wanted this thing . . . it woulda cost him thirty dollars to get a new one . . . but he wanted me to go back there with another member of the crew and take the ones that were there. So fine. I go back there, do what he says. I'm a team player. I climb up on the ladder. I'm the only one on the crew that knew anything about electricity. These were running on 230 volt, three phase.
...
Nessie: How tall a ladder?
....
.... (pages later)
...
Fred: Near here. And I called 1-800-UNABOMB, their tip line. I described the incident. First of all I got some lady. The lady asked me the basics of it. I ran it down as quickly as I could. She put me onto some other guy. I ran it down to him. Finally some guy who seems to know what he's talking about comes on the line.
...
...
...
Nessie: Hold on a minute. Cut. Brief interruption.
(I took a break to take a piss. I come back. There's a letter under his door. I give him the letter. He read it. He had been going to get a job at the Exploratorium, and doing cool, creative stuff, with his skills. The letter nixed that. Yet another job has slipped through Fred's fingers. He's obviously upset, but tries to hide it.)
Fred: Yeah. Well they just postponed the addition of another staff member. That's all it is. At this time. They're restructuring.
Nessie: Think you've been blacklisted?
...
...somehow the topic finally comes back to the unibomber again
...
Fred: We were talking about this FBI thing, and the Unabomber and stuff, and . . .
Nessie: Who we? Sam and Bruno . . .
Fred: Sam and a couple people. I don't even know who they were. We were talking about it. And shortly after I got there a guy in a cheap suit, tie loose, top button undone, sits down at the other end of the bar. I didn't even really pay him no never mind.
...
Nessie: (to tape recorder)For the benefit of the people reading this later, I should mention that this guy is white.
(to Fred) OK, so they're giving you what's called the "nigger shuffle," you should pardon the expression. It's what any Black person in America knows he's getting when he's not getting that job or not getting that apartment that he knows is there, but they're smiling at him and being polite anyway but they lie through their teeth. Happens alla time. Bosses do it. Landlords . . . just not all that often to white folks. Most white folks, that is. I guess you're different.
...
Fred: Industrial robot flipped out on me.
Nessie: Same company?
Fred: No.
Nessie: Did you have any problem with Workman's Comp. or anything over this one?
Fred: Well yeah. They're paying candy on this one, too.
(At this point, the tape ran out. I let it. We drank on. We may even have said something else interesting. But you get the idea by now. Helping the Feds doesn't pay.)
"
http://www.transbay.net/~nessie/Pages/fred.html
"Their continued frustration and ineffectiveness at finding the truth"
So, are they "frustrated and inneffective" or are they knowingly oppressive.
Make up your mind you jackass.
So, are they "frustrated and inneffective" or are they knowingly oppressive.
Make up your mind you jackass.
"I wouldn’t have killed him. I would have put him traction"
Imagine if Nessie just thought he found the unibomber and just found some environmentalist who seemed suspicious? Is that what hes threating to due to members of ALF if he identifies them?
COINTELPRO isnt needed when people like Nessie can threaten, yell at and alienate activists on their own. Calling 75+ percent of anarchists Nazis,rapists, murderers and terrorists for their views on animal rights isnt exactly uniting anything or helping build trust.
Imagine if Nessie just thought he found the unibomber and just found some environmentalist who seemed suspicious? Is that what hes threating to due to members of ALF if he identifies them?
COINTELPRO isnt needed when people like Nessie can threaten, yell at and alienate activists on their own. Calling 75+ percent of anarchists Nazis,rapists, murderers and terrorists for their views on animal rights isnt exactly uniting anything or helping build trust.
so if the FBI is arresting effective activists, that would indicate that what is here on the list is of no consequence and not worth bothering with..right!
or this is only the rantings of a sick mind.
or this is only the rantings of a sick mind.
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