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Israel simply has no right to exist
Peace might have a real chance without Israelis' biblical claims
It is the height of hypocrisy to accept the right of return for millions of Jews, from Moscow, Kiev, New York and Toronto, who have never been in this land, and deny this right to [3,7 million Palestinians, who were systematically uprooted from their homes and land by Zionist and Israeli forces. Refugees who, like their ancestors, have tilled this land and still legally own it and have every right to choose to return to it or accept compensation for it, in accordance with international law.
It is the height of hypocrisy to accept the right of return for millions of Jews, from Moscow, Kiev, New York and Toronto, who have never been in this land, and deny this right to [3,7 million Palestinians, who were systematically uprooted from their homes and land by Zionist and Israeli forces. Refugees who, like their ancestors, have tilled this land and still legally own it and have every right to choose to return to it or accept compensation for it, in accordance with international law.
Several years ago, I suggested in my students' union newspaper that Israel shouldn't exist. I also said the sympathy evoked by the Holocaust was a very handy cover for Israeli atrocities. Overnight I became public enemy number one. I was a Muslim fundamentalist, a Jew-hater, somebody who trivialised the memory of the most abominable act in history. My denouncers followed me, photographed me, and even put telephone calls through to my family telling them to expect a call from the grim reaper.
Thankfully, my notoriety in Jewish circles has since waned to the extent that recently I gave an inter-faith lecture sponsored by the Leo Baeck College, even though my views have remained the same. Israel has no right to exist. I know it's a hugely unfashionable thing to say and one which, given the current parlous state of the peace process, some will also find irresponsible. But it's a fact that I have always considered central to any genuine peace formula.
Certainly there is no moral case for the existence of Israel. Israel stands as the realisation of a biblical statement. Its raison d'être was famously delineated by former prime minister Golda Meir. "This country exists as the accomplishment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be absurd to call its legitimacy into account."
That biblical promise is Israel's only claim to legitimacy. But whatever God meant when he promised Abraham that "unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the Euphrates," it is doubtful that he intended it to be used as an excuse to take by force and chicanery a land lawfully inhabited and owned by others.
It does no good to anyone to brush this fact, uncomfortable as it might be, under the table. But that has been the failing with Oslo. When it signed the agreement, the PLO made the cardinal error of assuming that you could bury the hatchet by rewriting history. It accepted as a starting point that Israel had a right to exist. The trouble with this was that it also meant, by extension, an acceptance that the way Israel came into being was legitimate. As the latest troubles have shown, ordinary Palestinians are not prepared to follow their leaders in this feat of intellectual amnesia.
It wasn't enough for Jewry to rob the Pales-tinians of their native land. No, they had to evict more than one million of them, confis-cate their assets and ban these genuine holocaust victims from their own homeland. Since more than 50 years, the Israeli regime has arbitrarily flattened the houses of these subjugated people, tortured men and women and murdered them on a massive scale - including children. And this policy continous today. Please note, we are not talking about so-called "Nazi-Crimes", but about the "Holy Duties" of God's own people. What kind of God is this, who demands worship by the use of atrocities? And who are the "good people" who finance these horrible crimes against humanity? The answer is, it is the best demo-crats in the world, the modern day political elite of the West, especially the vasal state of Germany. So, genocide is considered the symbol of Jewish democracy!
Israel's other potential claim to legitimacy, international recognition, is just as dubious. The two pacts which sealed Palestine's future were both concluded by Britain. First we signed the Sykes-Picot agreement with France, pledging to divvy up Ottoman spoils in the Levant. A year later, in 1917, the Balfour Declaration promised a national home for the Jewish people. Under international law the declaration was null and void since Palestine did not belong to Britain - under the pact of the League of Nations it belonged to Turkey.
By the time the UN accepted a resolution on the partition of Palestine in 1947, Jews constituted 32% of the population and owned 5.6% of the land. By 1949, largely as a result of paramilitary organisations such as the Haganah, Irgun and Stern gang, Israel controlled 80% of Palestine and 770,000 non-Jews had been expelled from their country.
This then is the potted history of the iniquities surrounding its own birth that Israel must acknowledge in order for peace to have a chance. After years of war, peace comes from forgiving, not forgetting; people never forget but they have an extraordinary capacity to forgive. Just look at South Africa, which showed the world that a cathartic truth must precede reconciliation.
Far from being a force for liberation and safety after decades of suffering, the idea that Israel is some kind of religious birthright has only imprisoned Jews in a never-ending cycle of conflict. The "promise" breeds an arrogance which institutionalises the inferiority of other peoples and generates atrocities against them with alarming regularity. It allows soldiers to defy their consciences and blast unarmed schoolchildren. It gives rise to legislation seeking to prevent the acquisition of territory by non-Jews.
More crucially, the promise limits Israel's capacity to seek models of coexistence based on equality and the respect of human rights. A state based on so exclusivist a claim to legitimacy cannot but conceive of separation as a solution. But separation is not the same as lasting peace; it only pulls apart warring parties. It does not heal old wounds, let alone redress historical wrongs.
However, take away the biblical right and suddenly mutual coexistence, even a one-state solution, doesn't seem that far-fetched. What name that coexistence will take is less important than the fact that peoples have forgiven and that some measure of justice has been restored. Jews will continue to live in the Holy Land - as per the promise - as equals alongside its other rightful inhabitants.
If that kind of self-reproach is forthcoming, Israel can expect the Palestinians to be forgiving and magnanimous in return. The alternative is perpetual war.
Thankfully, my notoriety in Jewish circles has since waned to the extent that recently I gave an inter-faith lecture sponsored by the Leo Baeck College, even though my views have remained the same. Israel has no right to exist. I know it's a hugely unfashionable thing to say and one which, given the current parlous state of the peace process, some will also find irresponsible. But it's a fact that I have always considered central to any genuine peace formula.
Certainly there is no moral case for the existence of Israel. Israel stands as the realisation of a biblical statement. Its raison d'être was famously delineated by former prime minister Golda Meir. "This country exists as the accomplishment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be absurd to call its legitimacy into account."
That biblical promise is Israel's only claim to legitimacy. But whatever God meant when he promised Abraham that "unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the Euphrates," it is doubtful that he intended it to be used as an excuse to take by force and chicanery a land lawfully inhabited and owned by others.
It does no good to anyone to brush this fact, uncomfortable as it might be, under the table. But that has been the failing with Oslo. When it signed the agreement, the PLO made the cardinal error of assuming that you could bury the hatchet by rewriting history. It accepted as a starting point that Israel had a right to exist. The trouble with this was that it also meant, by extension, an acceptance that the way Israel came into being was legitimate. As the latest troubles have shown, ordinary Palestinians are not prepared to follow their leaders in this feat of intellectual amnesia.
It wasn't enough for Jewry to rob the Pales-tinians of their native land. No, they had to evict more than one million of them, confis-cate their assets and ban these genuine holocaust victims from their own homeland. Since more than 50 years, the Israeli regime has arbitrarily flattened the houses of these subjugated people, tortured men and women and murdered them on a massive scale - including children. And this policy continous today. Please note, we are not talking about so-called "Nazi-Crimes", but about the "Holy Duties" of God's own people. What kind of God is this, who demands worship by the use of atrocities? And who are the "good people" who finance these horrible crimes against humanity? The answer is, it is the best demo-crats in the world, the modern day political elite of the West, especially the vasal state of Germany. So, genocide is considered the symbol of Jewish democracy!
Israel's other potential claim to legitimacy, international recognition, is just as dubious. The two pacts which sealed Palestine's future were both concluded by Britain. First we signed the Sykes-Picot agreement with France, pledging to divvy up Ottoman spoils in the Levant. A year later, in 1917, the Balfour Declaration promised a national home for the Jewish people. Under international law the declaration was null and void since Palestine did not belong to Britain - under the pact of the League of Nations it belonged to Turkey.
By the time the UN accepted a resolution on the partition of Palestine in 1947, Jews constituted 32% of the population and owned 5.6% of the land. By 1949, largely as a result of paramilitary organisations such as the Haganah, Irgun and Stern gang, Israel controlled 80% of Palestine and 770,000 non-Jews had been expelled from their country.
This then is the potted history of the iniquities surrounding its own birth that Israel must acknowledge in order for peace to have a chance. After years of war, peace comes from forgiving, not forgetting; people never forget but they have an extraordinary capacity to forgive. Just look at South Africa, which showed the world that a cathartic truth must precede reconciliation.
Far from being a force for liberation and safety after decades of suffering, the idea that Israel is some kind of religious birthright has only imprisoned Jews in a never-ending cycle of conflict. The "promise" breeds an arrogance which institutionalises the inferiority of other peoples and generates atrocities against them with alarming regularity. It allows soldiers to defy their consciences and blast unarmed schoolchildren. It gives rise to legislation seeking to prevent the acquisition of territory by non-Jews.
More crucially, the promise limits Israel's capacity to seek models of coexistence based on equality and the respect of human rights. A state based on so exclusivist a claim to legitimacy cannot but conceive of separation as a solution. But separation is not the same as lasting peace; it only pulls apart warring parties. It does not heal old wounds, let alone redress historical wrongs.
However, take away the biblical right and suddenly mutual coexistence, even a one-state solution, doesn't seem that far-fetched. What name that coexistence will take is less important than the fact that peoples have forgiven and that some measure of justice has been restored. Jews will continue to live in the Holy Land - as per the promise - as equals alongside its other rightful inhabitants.
If that kind of self-reproach is forthcoming, Israel can expect the Palestinians to be forgiving and magnanimous in return. The alternative is perpetual war.
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A couple other nations on the list of settler states would be Canada and Australia but I'm sure there are others.
@%<
Okay, after I stop laughing . . .
Are we talking socialist as in North Korea or Cuba? Because we all know how peaceful those thugs are. Maybe you meant socialist as in the many Marxist uprisings in Africa that taken millions of lives, or did you mean German socialism (I think this your kind of plan) that experiemented on, tortured, and butchered 6 million Jews?
Thanks
How about the ones in western europe right now. France, Germany, etc.
!! JUDISM THE EVILEST CULT !!
JUDISM THE EVILEST OF EVIL CULTS
TALmud=TALaband
"Whatever" there you go lieing again what is it with you things and lieing?
you guys have deported a few "jews" lately and anyone else that doesnot agree with your slaughter of the Palestinians and the RITUAL blood lenting of the people whos land you stole and OCCUPY no state run by a blood thersty religous cult has a right to exist!
YES JUDISM IS EVIL CULT SHIT
YES JUDISM IS EVIL AND STINKS LIKEHORSE
TALAMUD=TALABAND
FACE IT judism is a stinking wad of CULT CRAP !!
THAT is why judism is disliked
Judaism teaches its cult followers to lie cheat and steal from the non-"jews" around them
the "anti-semitism" you lie about is justified hatred of the "EVIL JEWISH CULT" if you need a definition of them READ THE TALMUD it is the "blue print of the HOW TO'S of being a jewish evil cult member
the animal and human sacrifices that judism does practice does not help much either!!
!!!DROP THE EVIL CULT OF JUDISM !!! and you guys wont be disliked
In this case, it took about seven posts.
YES JUDISM IS EVIL CULT SHIT
YES JUDISM IS EVIL AND STINKS LIKEHORSE
TALAMUD=TALABAND
FACE IT judism is a stinking wad of CULT CRAP !!
THAT is why judism is disliked
Judaism teaches its cult followers to lie cheat and steal from the non-"jews" around them
the "anti-semitism" you lie about is justified hatred of the "EVIL JEWISH CULT" if you need a definition of them READ THE TALMUD it is the "blue print of the HOW TO'S of being a jewish evil cult member
the animal and human sacrifices that judism does practice does not help much either!!
!!!DROP THE EVIL CULT OF JUDISM !!! and you guys wont be disliked
This is how they justify Israel's existence. They were wronged, so whatever they do now is justified. I believe this is an immoral argument which is given legitimacy in the West.
YES JUDISM IS EVIL CULT SHIT
YES JUDISM IS EVIL AND STINKS LIKEHORSE SHIT
TALAMUD=TALABAND
FACE IT judism is a stinking wad of CULT CRAP !!
THAT is why judism is disliked
Judaism teaches its cult followers to lie cheat and steal AND muder the non-"jews" around them
the "anti-semitism" you lie about is justified hatred of the "EVIL JEWISH CULT" if you need a definition of them READ THE TALMUD it is the "blue print of the HOW TO'S of being a jewish evil cult member
The animal and human sacrifices that Judaism does practice does not help much either!!
!!!DROP THE EVIL CULT OF JUDISM !!! and you guys wont be disliked
""Other IMCs have noted the same pattern. An individual has been identified as the source of spamming/flooding articles to various Newswires. On some, he pretends to be a pro-Palestinian activist by flooding Newswires with stories that obsessively use the term "Zionazi". At the same time, the same person was noticed flooding the Jerusalem IMC with more than 50 copies of some rant about fascism.
We have concluded that this person has no political agenda, other than trying to start arguments and otherwise disrupt IMCs in any way possible, or as it's usually known, he is just a troll. Whether he is being paid to do this is speculation, as the disruptive effect may simply be the way he passes time in his apparently empty life.
Some may not want to hear this, but the tendency to pick sides and refuse to deal thoughtfully with the arguments of those we disagree with creates a climate where low-lifes of which we speak can fester and grow. Using terms such as "Zionazi" and other derogatory ethnic terms can be easily exploited by those who wish disruption, rather than productive dialogue.
Some of the names that this person has used include: American Vet; TruePeace; Special to the IMC; Marat; various Angle-sounding first names, including DAN, big bob, and others. He often favors using all-caps (hence his nickname at at least one IMC of "Caplock Crackpot") and also enjoys the posting of pictures of dead babies when posting reposts of wire service stories. He will often take a wire service story and use find and replace to make changes such as turning all references to Israelis in the original story to such terms as Zionists or "Zionazis". Lest you think he really does support the Palestinian cause, he has also posted false stories meant to cause distress to pro-Palestinian activists and to create the impression, through the obvious falsification of stories, that all such reporting on IMC about Palestine is equally fraudulent.
People should always use caution when reading a story on IMC which is too one-sided to be true and (while not giving wire service stories any more credit than they really deserve) mistrust stories that are uncorroborated by other news sources. Most of all, stories that treat other human beings as less than fully human, should cause doubt in the reader's mind about the veracity of the rest of the information presented. Stories that take the evil done by individuals of one ethnic group and then try to claim that ALL individuals in that ethnic group are somehow less than human are particularly suspect as being nothing more than shoddy propaganda. Sure, some Israelis are evil, but that doesn't mean that all Israelis are evil. Sure, some Palestinians are evil, but not all Palestinians are evil. A story that paints everything in black and white, "good versus evil", is just like the propaganda coming from Bush's lips and should be treated as having about the same credibility."
http://global.indymedia.org.au/front.php3?article_id=676&group=webcast
"Other IMCs have noted the same pattern. An individual has been identified as the source of spamming/flooding articles to various Newswires. On some, he pretends to be a pro-Palestinian activist by flooding Newswires with stories that obsessively use the term "Zionazi". At the same time, the same person was noticed flooding the Jerusalem IMC with more than 50 copies of some rant about fascism.
We have concluded that this person has no political agenda, other than trying to start arguments and otherwise disrupt IMCs in any way possible, or as it's usually known, he is just a troll. Whether he is being paid to do this is speculation, as the disruptive effect may simply be the way he passes time in his apparently empty life.
Some may not want to hear this, but the tendency to pick sides and refuse to deal thoughtfully with the arguments of those we disagree with creates a climate where low-lifes of which we speak can fester and grow. Using terms such as "Zionazi" and other derogatory ethnic terms can be easily exploited by those who wish disruption, rather than productive dialogue.
Some of the names that this person has used include: American Vet; TruePeace; Special to the IMC; Marat; various Angle-sounding first names, including DAN, big bob, and others. He often favors using all-caps (hence his nickname at at least one IMC of "Caplock Crackpot") and also enjoys the posting of pictures of dead babies when posting reposts of wire service stories. He will often take a wire service story and use find and replace to make changes such as turning all references to Israelis in the original story to such terms as Zionists or "Zionazis". Lest you think he really does support the Palestinian cause, he has also posted false stories meant to cause distress to pro-Palestinian activists and to create the impression, through the obvious falsification of stories, that all such reporting on IMC about Palestine is equally fraudulent.
People should always use caution when reading a story on IMC which is too one-sided to be true and (while not giving wire service stories any more credit than they really deserve) mistrust stories that are uncorroborated by other news sources. Most of all, stories that treat other human beings as less than fully human, should cause doubt in the reader's mind about the veracity of the rest of the information presented. Stories that take the evil done by individuals of one ethnic group and then try to claim that ALL individuals in that ethnic group are somehow less than human are particularly suspect as being nothing more than shoddy propaganda. Sure, some Israelis are evil, but that doesn't mean that all Israelis are evil. Sure, some Palestinians are evil, but not all Palestinians are evil. A story that paints everything in black and white, "good versus evil", is just like the propaganda coming from Bush's lips and should be treated as having about the same credibility."
http://global.indymedia.org.au/front.php3?article_id=676&group=webcast
YES JUDAISM IS EVIL CULT SHIT
YES JUDAISM IS EVIL AND STINKS LIKEHORSE SHIT
TALAMUD=TALABAND
FACE IT judism is a stinking wad of CULT CRAP !!
THAT is why judism is disliked
Judaism teaches its cult followers to lie cheat and steal AND muder the non-"jews" around them
the "anti-semitism" you lie about is justified hatred of the "EVIL JEWISH CULT" if you need a definition of them READ THE TALMUD it is the "blue print of the HOW TO'S of being a jewish evil cult member
The animal and human sacrifices that Judaism does practice does not help much either!!
!!!DROP THE EVIL CULT OF JUDISM !!! and you guys wont be disliked
YES JUDAISM IS EVIL CULT SHIT
YES JUDAISM IS EVIL AND STINKS LIKEHORSE SHIT
TALAMUD=TALABAND
FACE IT judism is a stinking wad of CULT CRAP !!
THAT is why judism is disliked
Judaism teaches its cult followers to lie cheat and steal AND muder the non-"jews" around them
the "anti-semitism" you lie about is justified hatred of the "EVIL JEWISH CULT" if you need a definition of them READ THE TALMUD it is the "blue print of the HOW TO'S of being a jewish evil cult member
The animal and human sacrifices that Judaism does practice does not help much either!!
!!!DROP THE EVIL CULT OF JUDISM !!! and you guys wont be disliked
Diana
Peace might have a real chance without Israelis' biblical claims
It is the height of hypocrisy to accept the right of return for millions of Jews, from Moscow, Kiev, New York and Toronto, who have never been in this land, and deny this right to [3,7 million Palestinians, who were systematically uprooted from their homes and land by Zionist and Israeli forces. Refugees who, like their ancestors, have tilled this land and still legally own it and have every right to choose to return to it or accept compensation for it, in accordance with international law.
Several years ago, I suggested in my students' union newspaper that Israel shouldn't exist. I also said the sympathy evoked by the Holocaust was a very handy cover for Israeli atrocities. Overnight I became public enemy number one. I was a Muslim fundamentalist, a Jew-hater, somebody who trivialised the memory of the most abominable act in history. My denouncers followed me, photographed me, and even put telephone calls through to my family telling them to expect a call from the grim reaper.
Thankfully, my notoriety in Jewish circles has since waned to the extent that recently I gave an inter-faith lecture sponsored by the Leo Baeck College, even though my views have remained the same. Israel has no right to exist. I know it's a hugely unfashionable thing to say and one which, given the current parlous state of the peace process, some will also find irresponsible. But it's a fact that I have always considered central to any genuine peace formula.
Certainly there is no moral case for the existence of Israel. Israel stands as the realisation of a biblical statement. Its raison d'être was famously delineated by former prime minister Golda Meir. "This country exists as the accomplishment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be absurd to call its legitimacy into account."
That biblical promise is Israel's only claim to legitimacy. But whatever God meant when he promised Abraham that "unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the Euphrates," it is doubtful that he intended it to be used as an excuse to take by force and chicanery a land lawfully inhabited and owned by others.
It does no good to anyone to brush this fact, uncomfortable as it might be, under the table. But that has been the failing with Oslo. When it signed the agreement, the PLO made the cardinal error of assuming that you could bury the hatchet by rewriting history. It accepted as a starting point that Israel had a right to exist. The trouble with this was that it also meant, by extension, an acceptance that the way Israel came into being was legitimate. As the latest troubles have shown, ordinary Palestinians are not prepared to follow their leaders in this feat of intellectual amnesia.
It wasn't enough for Jewry to rob the Pales-tinians of their native land. No, they had to evict more than one million of them, confis-cate their assets and ban these genuine holocaust victims from their own homeland. Since more than 50 years, the Israeli regime has arbitrarily flattened the houses of these subjugated people, tortured men and women and murdered them on a massive scale - including children. And this policy continous today. Please note, we are not talking about so-called "Nazi-Crimes", but about the "Holy Duties" of God's own people. What kind of God is this, who demands worship by the use of atrocities? And who are the "good people" who finance these horrible crimes against humanity? The answer is, it is the best demo-crats in the world, the modern day political elite of the West, especially the vasal state of Germany. So, genocide is considered the symbol of Jewish democracy!
Israel's other potential claim to legitimacy, international recognition, is just as dubious. The two pacts which sealed Palestine's future were both concluded by Britain. First we signed the Sykes-Picot agreement with France, pledging to divvy up Ottoman spoils in the Levant. A year later, in 1917, the Balfour Declaration promised a national home for the Jewish people. Under international law the declaration was null and void since Palestine did not belong to Britain - under the pact of the League of Nations it belonged to Turkey.
By the time the UN accepted a resolution on the partition of Palestine in 1947, Jews constituted 32% of the population and owned 5.6% of the land. By 1949, largely as a result of paramilitary organisations such as the Haganah, Irgun and Stern gang, Israel controlled 80% of Palestine and 770,000 non-Jews had been expelled from their country.
This then is the potted history of the iniquities surrounding its own birth that Israel must acknowledge in order for peace to have a chance. After years of war, peace comes from forgiving, not forgetting; people never forget but they have an extraordinary capacity to forgive. Just look at South Africa, which showed the world that a cathartic truth must precede reconciliation.
Far from being a force for liberation and safety after decades of suffering, the idea that Israel is some kind of religious birthright has only imprisoned Jews in a never-ending cycle of conflict. The "promise" breeds an arrogance which institutionalises the inferiority of other peoples and generates atrocities against them with alarming regularity. It allows soldiers to defy their consciences and blast unarmed schoolchildren. It gives rise to legislation seeking to prevent the acquisition of territory by non-Jews.
More crucially, the promise limits Israel's capacity to seek models of coexistence based on equality and the respect of human rights. A state based on so exclusivist a claim to legitimacy cannot but conceive of separation as a solution. But separation is not the same as lasting peace; it only pulls apart warring parties. It does not heal old wounds, let alone redress historical wrongs.
However, take away the biblical right and suddenly mutual coexistence, even a one-state solution, doesn't seem that far-fetched. What name that coexistence will take is less important than the fact that peoples have forgiven and that some measure of justice has been restored. Jews will continue to live in the Holy Land - as per the promise - as equals alongside its other rightful inhabitants.
If that kind of self-reproach is forthcoming, Israel can expect the Palestinians to be forgiving and magnanimous in return. The alternative is perpetual war.
There isn't a single Arab democratic liberal country in the world, is there a reason to assume that Palestinians in a "one state solution" will portray a more liberal state of mind, than say - the Taliban?
THE AND THE SLIMNY STINKING ASS-TURD jew-tala-muds can move THEIR stinking asses to antartica or HELL where they belong THOSE FUKING BASTARD ASS THIEVIING LOUSY JEWS BELONG
"One place where we run in to problems is when people intentionally manipulate the network communication by stoking tensions in to flame wars. Instead of addressing problems in a constructive way it is easy to push people in to misunderstanding and conflict. When a community member takes the step of 'becoming' two or more people they can stake out multiple sides of the issue and drive people in to opposing camps. This polarization is used to stop constructive dialog and refocus the work towards following and addressing the conflict."
the OCCUPING LIEING jew-BAG THIEVES need to get the hell out of PALESTINE !!
THE AND THE SLIMNY STINKING ASS-TURD jew-tala-muds can move THEIR stinking asses to antartica or HELL where they belong THOSE FUKING BASTARD ASS THIEVIING LOUSY JEWS BELONG