Critique of 9/11 "Loose Change" Video

I've lost many a pal to this dumbass conspiracy. I'm glad to find somebody to agree with me, although most probably already do.

you guys are as ignorant as the rest of the public that has been brainwashed by the media. im not saying either side is wrong or either side is right, all i am saying is to look at the facts and to not beleive everything you see. Just realize that our government isn't full of the most honest people in the world.

You've got to be kidding! The cynics are as idiotic as the conspiracy buffs - both sides
believing they can sum things up with their brilliant minds and fully informed lives.
You morons need to keep your day jobs and give up on trying to convince the world
of your genius, because if you had one molocule of a clue about 9/11, or anything else,
you would be smart enough to do something effective about it.

what i think is rediculous about loose change part 2, is how they say that flight 93 actually landed somewhere else. if this is true, which it is not, i would like someone to explain to me where the people that were on it are... where are the people that were on flight 93, if it didnt crash?? and dont tell me the government changed their identitys or that they covered it up becuase, people know people who know people who know people. it would take thousands upon thousands of people put under oath to keep this thing covered up, and youd think after 5 years that if it was a cover up, at least 1 person that would have been told to keep it a secret would just break from the pressure or just confess on their deathbed. honestly this video is complete bullshit and i cant believe how gullable the people are who believe this trash.

none of you can prove anything diffrent .to think that the government could not put this together is to be IGNORANT..what makes you people so smart..everything you people said was bullshit..do you work for the controling parties?????

I reviewd the footage and it does not conclusevly show anything other then a narrow object flying into the Pentagon. I question how the news report I read from Google news can say that it puts anything to rest. No real debris and small hole after the breach. I see a reason to look at this closer. There was a lot of Money made that day with people selling short a lot of stock, not to mention the gold that "evaporated". If anyone thinks that someone wouldn't kill a few thousand people for billions of dollars then you do not know your fellow human beings to well. More have been killed for less. If you are absolutly for or against either "theory" then you need to take a step back and examine both sides again. Even if 5 percent of what has been implied by these inside job theorists are true then we would be cowards to not step up and look closer at the matter.

"THEY WERE HIT BY PASSENGER JETS FILLED WITH INCREDIBLY HOT JET FUEL! This video acts like that is nothing. The fire inside caused materials in the building to build up and strain the structure which then collapsed in a wholly untidy manner (not at all like a controlled demolition). The buildings did not fall straight down, as seems to be the claim, but more towards the sides which were initially damaged."

The duration of combusting jet fuel and internal materials was not long enough to reach the incredibly high temps needed to melt the steel infrastructure many stories below. The collapse was not untidy (other than toxic dust), the wtc buildings fell vertically down, this is evidenced by buildings on the sides being undamaged. If the tall wtc buildings would not have fallen vertically, than the surrounding buildings would have sustained damage. They did not. Strain from "built up" materials on the top would have resulted in a tilted collapse instead of vertical..

We all know the political links between Bush and the House of Saud. The inside scoop on who knew what isn't what is being discussed. It seems that the issue at hand is that the Al-Queda pilots may have recieved some assisstance in the form of demolition experts on the US side prior to the 9/11 attacks. Since nepotism seems to run in the Bush imperialist regime, it should also be mentioned in the strange coincidences of 9/11..

'Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served. [Utne]"

more info on "Marvelous Marv" @;
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911security.html

Anyone trying to discover the truth and challenges the offiCIAl version of 9/11 events offered by the Bush regime deserves some credit. "Loose Change" is not the first and definitely won't be the last in a series of documentaries that presents relevent questions to the offiCIAl version of 9/11 events..

To all the seekers of truth, keep up the good work! Congrats on a great film project!!

"The duration of combusting jet fuel and internal materials was not long enough to reach the incredibly high temps needed to melt the steel"

It's not necessary to MELT the steel. You CD fanatics keep saying this, and it's a clear giveaway that you have no clue about this subject. Highly engineered structures are not wildly fabulously strong. They're only 125% as strong as they need to be sustain normal loads. That extra 25% is called "safety factor." In other words, the steel's strength only has to fall to 80% of its design value for failure to begin. This happens WAAAAY below melting temp. This is why building codes always stipulate some sort of fire-cladding (usually concrete) for high-rise steel frames. steel frames are not enveloped in concrete for strength. The concrete is there to provide a massive heat-sink in the event of fire to dampen heating of the frame and forestall exactly this sort of failure. I understand the designers of the WTC lightened the construction by using drywall as a fireblock, and that this stuff became so much flying debris when the planes slammed into them, leaving the steel directly exposed. Is this incorrect?

Fire-induced failure of steel building frames HAS happened, mostly with industrial buildings built before this threat was understood. When I took Structural Engineering 101 at a renowned Ivy League engineering school, the class was shown old footage of a factory already gutted, still a mass of flames, just oozing to the ground as the steel failed plastically from the heat. It was not heated to melting temperature. It doesn't have to be. I've also seen pictures of steel structures in Japan that failed in the same manner following US incendiary bombings of industrial districts. They looked like Dr. Suess hallucinations. The people barking out that no building has EVER failed in this manner are either ignorant strutting gasbags or liars, and the same goes for their followers.

The "towers were blown up" is a hodge-podge of fatally ignorant assumptions like this one.

Could one of you "experts" elucidate for me a controlled demolition scenario that explains this video

this video

http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/south_tower_collapse.mpeg

I am afraid, afraid that one day in the mists of all things someone will come out and apologize to the world for what they knew and why did nothing to stop it. I am afraid that when that day comes it will be a day of reckoning, and the price will be more than we can bare. God help us all.

And the day of reckoning needs to be NOW

It would be helpful if all parties to this debate would stop jumping to conclusions and simply ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!

There is nothing to be gained by sneering at "conspiracy theorists" every time somebody poses an unanswered question. And watch for this: one way for the establishment to discredit skeptics is to make some absurd claims that can be easily rebutted.

So keep your mind open and your mouth shut.

Even if you beleive the film to be "propaganda" aimed at exploiting Americans, how do you explain that god damned plane not making a bigger hole in the pentagon? Common sense tells us a big ass commercial air liner would rip a big fucking hole and not some 16 ft b.b. hole... Why didn't the first reporters on the scene see evidence of a plane. Our goverment has commited this grevious crime against us. Stop-Listen-THINK!!!!! Open your eyes people, don't be fooled by these liars who would blindfold you to the truth to which you can see with your own eyes-no plane in the video from the footage at the other buildings near the Pentagon. Think for yourselves and weigh out the information in the film and decide with your own mind what you believe is possible in our reality as American citizens.

I find the small hole and the undamaged windows puzzling. Also what about the exit hole after 9 feet? Any rational explanations for either of those?

Conspiracy theories will always be around. They went on for years about the Kennedy assassination and the moon landing; both had really convincing arguments but nothing ever was proven. The one thing I’ve always believe about 9/11 though, is that no plane hit the pentagon. There’s just no way a jet liner made that kind of an impact in that building and left that little debri. I remember watching the news cast the day that it happened and looking at that hole in the building, it was pretty clear to me then and now that something isn’t right there. The conspiracy theorists know this too, I’m sure that’s why they chose to make the pentagon the first part feature in their video. It’s their best argument. Could the federal government have planned something as elaborate as
9/11 and then cover it up? I don't think so, but we will probably never really know. I can say this: the use of 9/11 to justify all that has happened since (Afghanistan; Iraq; etc.) is truly disgusting, and that is what should really make us all mad. If you want to attack the government's policies, fight them on their own terms and beat them in the court of public opinion.

Loose Change, being an entirely derivitive work by passionate but critical-thought-challenged producers who don't seem to grasp the concept of disinformation, provides a cross-section of attacks on the official 9/11 Myth found on the web. The film's signal-to-noise ratio is about 0.7. For some help wading through the film, see: Sifting Through Loose Change

The biggest flaw in Loose Change is that it falls for the no-jetliner hoaxes -- hook, line, and sinker. All you have to do is look at comparable crashes. To believe the no-Pentagon-plane theory, you have to believe:

1. That the scores of eyewitness reports of a jetliner were faked, coerced, or coincidentally mistaken.
2. That the damage to the Pentagon, including an approximately 100-foot-wide expanse of punctured facade walls on the first floor, were somehow produced by a means other than a plane.
3. That fires that smelled like burning jet fuel, running about 200 feet across the facade of the Pentagon, were produced by some other means, or the photographs were faked.
4. That the aircraft debris, some of it clearly identifiable as from an American Airliners 757, was planted.
5. That the swath of downed lamp-poles the width of a 757's wing span were sliced and knocked over by some other means, and that smashed objects lying in the paths of the engines were damaged by some other means.
6. That the identification of human remains of Flight77's crew and passengers was fraudulent.
7. That Flight 77 was destroyed and all on board were disposed of at some unknown location.

How obvious does the hoax have to be before people see that it's a disinformation ploy?
Pentagon Attack Errors

Let me say this...I think it might be possible that we've all been fooled...
Let me explain...
When you walk down the street and you see all of the strangers...think to yourself...'what do they know that I don't?' Be realistic, you and I don't know everything. In fact there's a good chance now that we will never know the full truth involving mankind's history and the origins of religion. There are so many cover-ups, false-hoods, and swindlers of power that information and liberty is being held hostage by the 'real' terrorists. As I was saying, we don't know everything. that is why this discussion is going on; but isn't that the thing that is weird? The fact that we have to discuss this like there is a conspiracy?? Do you know how many people practice black magic in your community? Probably not as neither do most people, but you should be aware that they are out there.
How much power and money do you have?? Not much?? Why is that? Things seem out of reach? Think about the people and families, CEOs and Politicians, and others that have literally billions of dollars in funds or assets and think of all of us as ants or insignificant. Through our history, people have envied others and put people on a pedistool because of their wealth or wisdom but this idea itself is ludicrous. I could quote some scripture as to prove why we are all equal but if you don't believe it then guess what...YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!! Never fear, just admit that you are not perfect...you are great but not perfect and I ask that you open your mind to several possibilities. First of all, anyone who has seen the Loose Change video as well as any other of Alex Jones' brilliant films can testify that it is NO JOKE!! If you have the courage to dig deeper...your life will change.
Ever heard of the NEW WORLD ORDER? Maybe you should look it up like right now! Ever heard of the Rothchilds? Merovingians? How about Maurice Strong? Probably not. Listen...OPEN YOUR MIND. I will give you several links to follow here in a sec...
I look at the filtered news on tv and I see why our country AMERICA is letting itself slip away. This great country has been under attack for years by an enemy foreign and domestic. We have been conditioned and conformed to believe lies and go along willingly with atrocities committed by those we 'elect.' How is it that Al Gore won the popular vote but Bush still got in through the Supreme Court? Not that I'm going to bat for Al Gore (they both creep me out), but I think he obviously won it fair and square no matter how you look at it. Then Kerry vs. Bush? Cousins, classmates, and friends? Bush's father was just president. Reagan and Clinton were 'run' by Bush Sr. (this is proven). Who knows who was truly running the show??? I think that people who stand up and say 'oh yea, go to Iran or Iraq, bomb those fuckers!'...this proves you are fucking ignorant and you need to be castrated! If you call yourself Christian and you are for 'killing terrorists' to protect America then YOU are killing America! There are no fucking terrorists! We are never going to catch Bin Laden! NEVER! There's a reason why!
No I'm not done!
Have you ever heard of Cathy O'Brian or the prophecy club? These two videos I've seen will blow your mind right open! I'm done ranting for now. There is so much to say but I can provide sources who can say it better, more organized, and with clear-cut evidence to back it up!!!!
The heat is on...
First...search all of these through google.com:
'Battle of L.A. 1942' (find the website by name of 'rense')
'freemason D.C.' (find the website by name of freemasonrywatch.org or sum'thn)
'Free Press International' (if you can find the web site which you simply mUst!....try searching like...'free press international conspiracy' ...click the link and if you are taken to a 'free press international' site you'll know it by the subject matter on the right side of the web page.....then look for or search for a video in the site under 'conspiracy' subject...it is a video by like an old professor for a 'prophecy club' audience. It is brilliant! Then there is a video under 'mind control' subject heading. Again, on the free press site, it is either under 'conspiracy or mind control' and there is a video and interviews for CATHY O'BRIAN and another guy. Watch her video/ the one with her standing in front of crowd at podium -there's like four videos to choose-) These are good ones especially the Cathy O'Brian stuff holy crap!
Then go through google videos and watch:
go to google.com and search:
google videos Loose Change 2nd Edition
google videos 9/11 Road to Tyranny
google videos Martial Law 3 Rise of the Police State
go to infowars.com , prisonplanet.com (here you can listen to Alex Jones' radio show which is cool. It's through WinAmp which is pimp and it's free!)
Try searching some other things for fun:
Bush is Antichrist
Alex Houston
Federal Reserve info
Tri-Lateral Commission info
Council on Foreign Relations info
UN sex scandal info
Halliburton, Dyncorps, and World Cup human trafficking
La Raza (La Razza)
So many things...so little time....trust me this should be enough....
Don't let em get u down! Stand up for your rights!

sorry more info...thanks for the posting PLZ keep this discussion going! see where it will go!

search these:
freemasonry
illuminati
new world order
Rosecruscians (something like that, you know...knights templar type stuff)
masons and lucifer
search new legislation like...
the new draft bills
the truth behind the IRS and our money
the truth behind the Patriot Act I and II
the American Service Act (i think that is the draft bill... correct me if u can)
the dissolving of American sovreignty by granting amnesty to 20 mil immigrants
the violations of our amendments (gun control, freedom of protest)
search 'Ben Livingston and Katrina (the hurricane)'
search Brice Taylor
search Alice Bailey or Anton Lavey or Giger, or other occultists
search for anything.....just open ur mind
search for the 'disclosure project'

Didn't Nero himself start a fire in Rome in 66 A.D., blame the Christians, kill them, and then receive the applause of the Romans who had once hated him? You fail to understand human nature if you're unwilling to consider that Americans would do this to other Americans in order to make some cash.

First of all, before you just skip over my post, read this at the very least:

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

I cannot believe how easily swayed some of you people are. Many of you just ate this "documentary" up like a good Michael Moore fan would. I registered just so you could pull your blinders off.

Loose Change is so hilariously full of s***, that, I don't know where to start. The more I read up on the subject, the more Dylan and his dipshit buddies piss me off for continuing to spew out their complete and utter BS.

Here's a challenge for you Dylan - show me just one other controlled demolition where the building falls from the top downward rather than imploding in on itself from the bottom. Just find one, that shouldn't be too hard, huh? Oh wait, that's right, that would take actual research, something you've obviously never done by the looks of your "documentary"

My favorite part: Flight 93 landed in Cleveland? I fell out of my chair laughing when LC said that! Seriously! Wow! The airline doesn't claim this, so that means that the airline is a part of this conspiracy as well. Or wait, maybe David Copperfield is part of it and he just made all these jets (that apparantly weren't used in the attacks) just disappear as well as all the people onboard!

How many people are "in on it" I wonder, since LC apparantly has all the answers? How many people does it take to pull off a hoax in at least 3 seperate locations (4 if you count Cleveland) with millions upon millions of witnesses? 100? 500? 1000?

How many guys does it take to wire up the world trade centers with enough explosives to take it down as LC claims they did? All 220 floors worth (not to mention the 50 floors of 7 WTC)?. According to LC, they did it in a matter of weeks completely undetected, even by the bomb sniffing dogs LC itself says were there leading up to 9/11.

Here's some ideas for LC ed. 3: How about using full quotes rather than misleading people by taking little quips of statements completely out of context. How about showing a few pictures in their entirety instead of hiding the truth, not to mention all the pics which clearly show your lying? How about not using chat rooms and biased papers like AFP as sources? How about being man enough to admit that your work is fiction, and you're just enjoying the publicity from the myth it has spawned on the web?

The more I've looked into it the past day or two, the more upset it makes me. The makers of this film are nothing but attention whores. Every one of these theories in LC have been debunked six ways from sunday countless times already. Their video is deliberately misleading, and the uninformed are just taking it all in as gospel. It's pathetic really, that you folks just eat this garbage up and don't bother to look for the counterpoint.

For all of you "well informed" people out there, try watching "Screw Loose Change" for the counterpoint. Just google it or look for the torrent. It's out there too.

Read this at the very least:

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

Or just put your tinfoil hats back on. At least do so after hearing both sides. Don't be ignorant of what LC truly is.

I mean seriously, to buy into LC, you actually have to believe our inept US govt has the ability to successfully pull this off under ours and the media's noses and that it took a film student dropout to uncover the truth? Sure, I see where you're coming from now, that's quite plausible. [rollseyes]

Can conspiracy nut explain why the fuck the government would use planes to do the work? Why not just fucking use bombs since it would be much easier? There would be no need to hijack planes, kill innocent americans on those planes and have to deal with there families and such. All they would have to do is plant the bombs and be done with it and find some arab to blame it on. This is essentially what they did but why the hell would they add the planes to make it more complex? Why go through the trouble of setting up a remote controll system for the planes too? Cause you know no one will fly the planes directly into it. Anyways, you conspriacy nuts need to be shot. It amazes me that our country is filled with such crap. Its our own fault though.

Another thing to the conspiracy nuts, explain why controlled-demolition experts (see Popular Mechanics study and Loose Change Guide) say it takes many, many months of preparation and set-up to bring down a 30-story building (and that's with full access to an empty building and not having to sneak around!!), yet Loose Change would have us believe that two 110-story skyscrapers were wired in a few days with no one knowing? How many explosive experts did the Illuminati hire to pull this off? And how did they find so many demolition experts that also just happened to be extreme-right-wing murderers, with not one whistle-blower to date? And why is it that there's not one eyewitness on record that saw a missle hit the Pentagon, yet there are hundreds that saw a plane???

I love reading fiery invectives from morons who cannot spell or put together coherent sentences. What ever happened on 9/11 was beyond the comprehension of people in this country, and around the world. It has been used as a springboard to carry out unconstitutional bullshit policies at home and abroad. However you feel about the theories surrounding it, there are certain undeniable truths that make arguing about it irrelevent. First, people in this country knew it was coming. This fact is not arguable. Investors made millions or possibly billions of dollars by situating their investments to benefit from ensuing dive in the market following the attacks. That much is available public information. The government knew it was coming as well, whether you believe they planned it or not. To say their reaction to it was inadequate is the understatement of the century. People my age wouldn't be getting shot at and blown up daily in Iraq if 9/11 hadn't happened because the public never would have supported the war. Lastly, 9/11 was an opportunity to unite with the free world, but the cowboy in the white house thought it would be better to ride solo, guns-blazing into a country that had nothing to do with any of it. This decision has outraged the rest of the world and backfired in grand fashion, not to mention left 3,000 american soldiers and some 50,000 civilians dead. I was recently in England, and the hatred of America, George Bush, Tony Blair and all the bullshit they have perpetrated on the rest of the world was palpable in the air. I love America, but the people calling the shots are on a path to ruining it forever. If you can't understand why Muslims hate the west consider that we have been dropping bombs on them for the better part of two decades. We have killed enough people in that region of the world that our prescence has surely negatively affected a vast majority of the people there. So what is my solution? Bring the entire military home. Start the biggest campaign of peace that the world has ever known. Dedicate 800 billion dollars to it, and give it the news coverage that we have given to the hellish situation in Iraq, play the propaganda games that the terrorists are playing because they are winning, use lazer guided bomb technology to shoot food at hungry people, and THEN if they still hate us and try to attack us we can always go back to blowing the shit out them. What do we have to lose?

That's a cool idea.

What "theman" is saying is that it would be hard to say that people were in the plane? That makes no sense. What the movie claims is that the planes were controlled by remote and their were no passengers in the plane at the time. Which isn't to hard of a concept to fathom, in 1984 (as the movie states) Boeing conducted research on remote flight, during this testing process a 737 took off and landed 16 times until finally conducting the crash land that was awaited for various NASA tests. That plane flew for over 34 hours un-piloted. So for you to say that you would need thousands of people to make this change is uncandid. YOU WOULD NEED ZERO, and that's the point. On to other matters concerning this film, there are definately some major flaws in conspiracies placed on the chests of our government. BUT you must admit there are also some that make perfect sense, without an eye for details. CIA reports confirm many of these as well, and you're defending our government just go ahead and read in THEIR words, they fucked up and they know it. As the vice seceratary of defense stated in an interview with the mayors aid; "You're government has failed you, I have failed you." If you ask me that pretty much sums it up right there. To say all of the conspiracies in the movie are true, is a horrendous, terribly false statement. BUT on the other hand, to shove everything off as a product of the media is ignorant, and un-intelligent. All the film is saying is to watch everything that is happening around you, it's not trying to focus on one event. For example take the aspirin factory expose.

First of all, just reading the comments on this article should be enough to convince most people to believe that the conspiracy is just a conjured piece of bullshit, not because of the content, but because most of the spelling errors are from the people supporting the conspiracy. I for one don't intend to believe any conspiracy threaded together by people who won't take the time or the effort to ensure that their medium of communication is at least correct, which for all I know, may say enough about the conspiracy that they're supporting.

Secondly, what makes one convinced that the conpiracy is total crap is the fact that more than once you "supporters" have told people to "open their eyes, and think for themselves". If I have to point out the ironic hypocrisy, then that's just another reason not to support your wild theories. Yes, both sides are trying to prove their point, but what makes the "con" side of the conspiracy more believable is the fact that they have more accurate facts. I could list dozens of these points, such as the steel in the towers "melting" at certain temperatures, or rather not, or the fact that the Government imposed some code requiring all planes to land, something they haven't imposed since 1904 (the year the Wright brothers first flew). But when these facts are confronted, you theorists have just accused us of being blinded by the media, and tell people to stop being "sheeple", and to think for themselves (so long as they think for themselves that there is a conspiracy). Funny.

Which brings me to the title of this post: The Question. All of you theorists are spouting your "facts", that you are so convinced are right, but I wonder how many of you can actually answer the question: Were you there? How many of you theorists were actually there, not only at the WTC, but also at Shanksville and the Pentagon? And if you were there, do you remember everything as clearly as if it was yesterday, and not in a panic state of mind? You are just going on what other people say, just ignoring the facts. The 9/11 conspiracy is just the latest bandwagon, and too many people have been jumping on it without stopping and thinking "hey, this part of the conspiracy doesn't add up, maybe it's possible that there are other flaws in the theory". Now who's the sheeple.

Now, I like to think myself a fairly reasonable and open-minded person, who has been known to change his mind regarding certain issues. None of you who read this will personally know me, so you have only my word for this. But yes, with the right set of information, I can be willing to "see the light" about the 9/11 conspiracy. To make it easy, I will tell all you theorists out there what it will take to convince me. I am going to need to see: someone who was at not only all three places (the Pentagon, WTC 1,2,7 and Shanksville), but was also clear-headed enough after having watched planes crash and explode into buildings (*) that he or she would be able to identify that yes, there were explosions in the base of the towers and that they fell straight down; yes, it was a cruise missile and not a plane that struck the Pentagon, and the government came in with plane parts; yes, there was no wreckage of an airplane at Shanksville, other than a crater. Find me this person, find me this one magical person that can prove my already strong doubts about the theory wrong, and I will be forced to change my mind about the issue. Until then, I still hold firm in my thoughts that 9/11 was masterminded by Middle-eastern fundamentalists and not the United States government, and that there are such things as coincidences in this big world of ours.

* Because most people would generally tend to panic after seeing that. And I know that that is a generalization of the common citizen, but think about it, how often did the topic of plane crashes come up before 9/11?