Postpone Anarchist Bookfair 2007...

The nude fella talks good sense!

See:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/1806137_comment.php#1808454

So are you going to accomodate the rest of your demographic or not, Nessie?

Maybe the nude guy is too communist for your tastes?

You do not define our demographic for us. Neither do we. Demographics define themselves. Those who attend, attend. Thos that do not, don't.

If you mean, "why don't we accomodate ANSWER", it should be obvious by now. We are moving forward, more slowly than we had hoped for, but forward nonetheless. Answer is going nowhere, very, very fast.

Which way do *you* want to go, forward or nowhere? It's your choice. Make it wisely. There's more than your own fate at stake."

"You do not define our demographic for us. Neither do we."

Ahh, but you do. You've written about the "kind of people" you're looking for, and have been unambivalent about how "Bolsheviks" aren't it.

That sounds like both positive and negative description fo a demographic to me.

So, 1) does the naked guy fit your demographic or not? 2) if so, has he any hope that you'll accomodate his expressed need to be at both the anniversary-of-war protest and the anarchist book "fair," or not?

Simple enough questions. Stop playing semantic games for once and address them.

PS: Sounding like a weasley politician does not inspire confidence in um... the goodness of your intentions.

welcome to the ghetto we call anarchy

How is isolating one self moving forward? Do you honestly think people showing to “answer” march think that “answer” is the answer. Or are they looking for a way to publicly express their rage, bitterness or totally hatred toward what usa government doing around the world.

Honestly selling and buying our anarchist gear can and should be done on another day.

It has no effect. Our rulers don't give a rat's behind how we feel. Expressing ourselves has accomplished nothing. We need to do, not just more than demonstrate, we neen to do something else entirely.

See:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/1808579_comment.php#1810306

The ANSWER protest was reasonably big without Anarchists and I would gues moe peopel didnt attend the march just due to being tired of marching than because of the Fair. If peopel who wouldnt have gone to the march helped organize future actions at the Fair its hard to be critical of it.

But... I am a bit confused about Anarchist politics in general. Communist groups have an ideology I disagree with but they always march against wars, for unions, against police brutality etc...

Anarchists also do that but one has these "Anarchist Pride" sorts of marches too and I think it reflects badly on Anarchists in the same way that I would find a WWP march for Marxist-Leninism or an RCP march for Maoism a bit gauche. A march with the main message being "yay us" and "we are so much cooler than everyone else" seems a bit like a college pep rally but for a movement that has serious problems with diversity and letting social networks define who is part of the group, a message that Anarchists are fighting for Anarchists isnt exactly a positive message; it seems a bit like a step beyond vanguardism towards a group nationalism where the group itself is what is being fought for not a change that will effect everyone.

Defining Anarchism by the scene and group identy rather than politics not only produces the likes of Nessie and Mister Grumpy who have open hostility towards other activist groups fighting for the same immediate goals, but also risks bad immediate politics. If you look at the problems facing most people in the Bay Area one has issues like housing and other costs of living, violence and police brutality, lack of jobs or oppressive work enviornments, and other such things near the top of most people's lists. When looking inward and identifying only with long term utopian goals you can end up with Anarchists seeing protecting section 8, preventing the closing of medical centers that serve the poor, lack of enforcement of labor laws, etc.. as being seen as irrelevent to Anarchists since by demanding the state help poor people one is accepting the existance of the state. While nobody is quite this bad I would throw out an image of an Anarchist living on their rich friends couch preaching to poor people how section 8 isnt needed since one should just refuse to pay rent. You can quickly end up with the community taking an almost Libertarian line on issues (like Nessie's stand on dogs on Ocean's Beach) just due to personal interests being justified with the use of Anarchist theory. I dont think this is an issue with Anarchism itself (even thouh as long as its an umbrella name for several very different political trends it invites peopel to shove conservative Libertarianism in with those), but an issue with having ones activist community becomes ones community and developing loyalty and politics based off the problems people face just within this community. Its not contradictory to fight for government aid to the poor when one opposes the state if one accepts that the state is here now and as things stand section 8, Medicaid, SSI, food stamps and the like are needed since there isnt anything to replace them. I do personally wonder how a future without a state would deal with poverty and the like (mutual aid sounds a bit to much like right-wing ideas about volunteerism and faith based charities) and whether the lack of radical support for imporovement in our current social services (which seem structured in a way to keep people down) and lack of radical ways to deal with nonstate violence (such as the latest shooting wave in Oakland) could account for some of the lack diversity across the left.

>Nessie and Mister Grumpy who have open hostility towards other activist groups fighting for the same immediate goals

Their immediate goals are to increase their personal power by maniulating you.

Our immediate goals are to provide you with tools with which to empower yourselves.

Apples and oranges.

well i not give a shit about who our "ruler" feel i give shit about how the people feel, even the ones who have no idea what anarchism is.

in 11 years of the bookfair i have seen little change in who shows up.

stop fool yourself the fair is used to funraise it be great if that was just a side note but it isn't

Also, utterly unconvincing.

Once upon a time, there was a First International...

>maybe you aren't bringing enough new people with you when you come. So tell us, how many new people *did* you bring with you, anyhow? Just wondering. Be specific.


>the fair is used to funraise

It does raise hella fun. But it also educates, as well as provides a place for people to meet who otherwise wouldn't or couldn't. Oh yeah, and there's pretty good food, too.


>Once upon a time, there was a First International...

And that's where we learned our lesson about Marxiists, from Marx himself.

Never again.

....but on the other hand, the First International means common origins. Anarchists and communists are factions of the same movement. All of your faux-historical pretension only makes your denials of this seem more like lies.

Meanwhile, back to the topic of the thread: the naked guy's request. I assume you might ignore it if I just ask it again. So let me give you some iterations to choose from.

What about the naked guy's request, above?

What about that?

What about the naked guy?

What about the idea above, that both events be facilitated, as per the naked guy's request?

What about the naked guy's idea, which started this thread?

>the First International means common origins. Anarchists and communists are factions of the same movement.

Wrong. It means that anarchists were suckered by Marxist liars into believing that they were part of our movement. They tricked us by using similar terminology. Out of naivete fell for it. As soon as we figured out the truth, we left. Never again. No, the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily mu friend. We have nothing in common with these people. We want to do away with bosses. They want the boss's job. They are the enemy, too.

See:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/1808579_comment.php#1810679


>What about the naked guy's request, above?

See:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/1805505_comment.php#1810715

Can we buy one from you? BTB? ABF?

I'd hate to come all that way, jsut to get kicked out over a technicality.

Share, cooperate, contribute, educate, organize, don't act like an *sshole.

So then you must surely be out of the club, as you are one of the biggest dickheads around. You embarrass your comrades, you turn all types of people off of anarchism, and are generally counterproductive as a self-appointed spokesperson for anarchist values.

An ad hominem is not a rebuttal.

Oops. I forgot one:

Make new mistakes.

It's not a club.

"You embarrass your comrades, you turn all types of people off of anarchism, and are generally counterproductive as a self-appointed spokesperson for anarchist values."

That's because he's not really an anarchist. He may have been half a lifetime ago, but that's over. He's maturing into a paternalistic closet authoritarian, his dad's son. I feel bad for him. He's invested his life in a political philosophy to which he's now turning hostile for reasons no one can control: his genes and his emotional programming are turning on him, and what's he going to do now? Go the way of Horowitz? It's sad.

An ad hominem is not a rebutal. It's a way to change the subject.

Now back to the subject . . .

That little bit of comment regurgitation we have ALL heard before.

Maybe you need a new hobby. Maybe a paying job instead of scavenging off of the tax dollars of real workers and continuing to live on the government dole, a government which you claim to despise but still cash those checks all the same. How many more decades do you plan to live off of the work of others? Maybe you need to volunteer somewhere you'd really make a difference, like a soup kitchen or homeless shelter. You figure it out.

Dominating comment threads here with your opinions is not a great service to humanity and it's a misuse of all those tax dollars you suck down every month.

Don't you have your own website you can freely dominate? Isn't that enough for your overinflated ego? Go do your authoritarian broken record routine there. Really, how many times can you type the exact same sentences over and over here and still feel like you are saying something important? What a repetitive mental life you lead. How sad.

As for anarchists, you're not half the man (or woman) so many other hardworking local anarchists are. You certainly don't stand up to to good people, anarchists or not, running the noBAWC co-ops. You pale next to people at AK Press or even other Bound Together Bookstore volunteers. They do things, earn livings and provide services, while you just squawk incessantly.