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Mohammad Colin - Q&A - Riots in France: Causes and Consequences
Live Dialogue
Name
Dhirulahi - Nigeria
Profession computer operator/Teaching
Question
What actually are the causes of this Unrest and why are they associating it with Islam or Muslims?
Answer
The causes are the death of two young people by an electro chock. They thought they were pursued by policemen. The majority of the inhabitants of these quarters are Muslims. That is why the unrest is associated with Islam.
Name
Kamal - Nigeria
Profession
Question
What do you thing the French government should do to face the riots incidents?
Answer
The government must be aware of what is happening within these poor quarters. We cannot resolve it within hours.
The French elite and all the other parts of the society must be aware that France is, now, multicultural and must accept all French people of Maghrebi origins or Turkish and African ones.
Name
Osama - Saudi Arabia
Profession
Question
Do you agree with me that the fatwa issued in France prohibiting participation in France will link Islam to the riots incident?
Answer
For me, there is a dangerous confusion in the sense that the Union of Islamic organizations of France is overcoming its role and tries to confuse its role with the State one.
There are a lot of critics expressed by Muslims after the issuing of this fatwa as it memories the collaboration of Muslim preachers with France during the occupation of Algeria.
Name
M. Muhsin - Hungary
Profession
Question
Does religion have something to do with riots in France?
Answer
No, there is no direct link with the riots. It is rather the sign of misunderstanding in France, a social misunderstanding.
Name
Bartholemew - United Kingdom
Profession
Question
It seems that an aspect of the riots relates to the poverty many of the immigrant community find themselves in, with little opportunity to change their circumstances. In trying to find an 'identity' do you believe the immigrant community will go from one extreme (where they are today having lost track of their cultural heritage) to another extreme (where they try to rediscover their cultural heritage) - swinging back and forth and not finding the balance that would be required to sustain a productive life in a multi-cultural environment (irrespective of how the immigrant community may be perceived by the non immigrant community). And how do we ensure that instead of these horrible swings back and forth all parties concerned find a way to being harmony such that everyone wins?
Answer
It is obvious today that we are insisting on the come-back of young generations to their identity and mostly are re-discovering their Muslim identity. This is a first significant fact.
But, it is also true that young Muslims in France are the first ones to be the victim of the economic recession. Some of them isolate themselves with communitarian entities and others are trying to be more open towards the society in order to have better chances to succeed in their lives.
A great number of Muslim associations are working with different parts of the society.
In France, it is obvious that Muslims has not to isolate themselves and must at the contrary participate in the building of a multicultural society, respecting the difference and the specificities of others.
Name
Muhamme - United Arab Emirates
Profession
Question Assalamu alaickum
Could you tell us the real cause of the riots ?
Answer
The real causes are social and economic. Also, non-Muslim French people are involved in this crisis. But, the real victims are Muslims, of course especially those who live in poor quarters.
Name
Fahd Hussain - Canada
Profession Investment Banker
Question
I don't think that rioting is always wrong. In certain situations it is a catalyst that brings about change. It is very similar to the situation in the US in the turbulent 60's. This not about religion it is more to do about the poor class rising up to demand there rights. These teenagers have forced the government to address there grievances. I think that the Muslim community in France should take this opportunity and form a grass roots movement to demand equal treatment. The riots should be the first step in a longer term process.
Answer
Yes it is true that there a lot of discrimination in France. But, despite all, there is an institutional racism towards Muslim French people such as Maghrebis, Turkish people and Africans.
The challenge is to know that France is ready to accept non-European community, because France is an immigration territory. It integrated people from Belgium, Poland, Italy, Spain and Portugal and it seems difficult for this country to integrate Muslim community.
We can explain it by the fact that France has not ceased the Algerian issue. That is why they have to re-think their immigration model.
Name
Hassan - Sweden
Profession
Question
Salamoun Aalaikoum,
What we see happening in France was due to happen ages ago. We same problem in other European countries and this should be a good example for the rest of the country. Should not this problem be a concern of EU and not only of France? What are we really expecting as a result? How do you see the results for Minister of interior in his participation for elections for presidency 2007? Thank you.
Answer
This crisis is a French one because it is directly linked with the French model of integration.
The Prime minister gave his opinion and took some measures. One of these measures is an emergency state which is new in France since the Algerian War and thus, it does not give a good sense. We lack a political space vis-à-vis of these young people.
Nicolas Sarkozy is playing on two levels. First, he wants to seduce the different communities just like in the US and, second, he wants to seduce the extreme right Front National party. Where will he go? I have no answer.
Name
Richard - United States
Profession
Question
Not that I condone violence, but it would have been nice to see this kind out outrage over 9/11 in association with Muslims. Nothing! Just "Islam is Peaceful" on any media outlet they could talk to. However, two youth die in a Muslim area and all hell breaks loose. The hypocrisy speaks for itself.
Answer
Media and politicians have a great responsibility. Some of them participate in stigmatizing Muslim community. They just link facts which have no link one with each other.
We can not link the tragic 9/11 with young people living in poor quarters and are struggling to have a job.
Name
Marco - Canada
Profession
Question
I am very confused over this violence in France. I have read the Qur'an and find no permission to act this way. I have attended many mosques around the world and have met many a Muslim. Overall, I find Islam to be peaceful. However, considering the last few years it seems Muslims are the ones who are not peaceful. The religion is peace, its followers not. Yes, it is proper to blame all Muslims because you are considered one family. You as a people have failed time and time again to handle this violence. So, it is absolutely correct to say Islam is peaceful, but its followers at this time are not. I remember Judaism use to be peaceful as well and the Torah was beautiful. However, the Jews themselves were ignorant of God and he gave himself to another people more deserving. It's sad; you talk nicely and have pleasant words. However, you actions show failure to be united and get a handle on your people. It's your responsibility as a united family. I imagine God again will give his gift to a new people.
Answer
The young people in France are certainly Muslims but do not refer to Islam. This model of speech will not influence all the young people. That is why it is very important to know how they live and support them and is the responsibility of all the citizens.
Name
Murad -
Profession Student
Question
Salamalaikoum,
What will it take to end the riots (besides using force)? Does this have anything to do with the banning of the hijab? Thank you.
Answer
It has no direct link. But, this law provoked a deep sadness within Muslim community. The causes of the violence are social rather than religious.
Name
HOPE -
Profession
Question
Please give us a detailed description of the suburbanites' life socially and economically and how they can face their problems, please give us details and examples.
Answer In poor quarters, there are lot problems at different levels. The State does not give the same opportunities when we are in poor quarters as it gives to the other areas.
There is also a lot of discrimination when we are looking for a job or even for a home. For instance, we can find a great number of young people who have diplomas and they have no job because of their origins and the place of residence.
It is the same thing when you are looking for a house.
So, young people find themselves in a blocked situation and do not find any solution.
In France, there are reflections and proposals for change. They speak about positive discrimination for example, to have a better representation within media. But, the implementation of these ideas is facing problems.
Name
Amatullah -
Profession student
Question
Salaam,
What we seen in media before and after this problem French government seem to be acting selfish (shut their eye to suffering immigrants) they wish the immigrants disappear instantly. That would work they should have solutions. No schooling, no jobs. How do they want these young people to function?
Answer
The last governments faced this problem. Nobody knows how it will be resolved. There are young generations deprived of many things.
What's the solution? The Socialist government of under Mitterrand issued a city politics/strategy to resolve social and urban problems. This was provoked by 1981 riots incidents.
Sociologists and architects took part to this operation, by putting processes. But this experience had failed, as poor quarters revealed the State crisis. In fact, the City is the first victim of globalization.
Name
Frank - United States
Profession
Question
Why don't Muslims migrate back to there homeland, where liked mind Muslims live. How can you complain about the conditions, when you know from historical purpose that knows one gives power away voluntary? You have to develop your own institutions and economic means.
Answer
For these young people, their homeland is France.
Name
Begum Shofiq - Bangladesh
Profession freelance writer
Question
Salaam;
Do you think, Muslims will suffer more after the riot & ordinary people who are mostly non-Muslims will think negatively against Muslims & Islam?
Answer
Despite all, we are in a State of Law. These incidents even violent are means of expression.
As for the representation, the change will depend of Muslims themselves. We can not expect how they will think about us.
Name
Adel - Belgium
Profession
Question
I am sorry to say that your answers are repeated and have nothing new till now but I can understand that situation is not clear for many so please tell us as a third generation French citizen not as an expert or thinker how do you read the events in France on its cultural , economic and political level ? The second question do you think what is happening now can be considered a reaction against the idea of the EU after the French voting against the EU constitution? The third and the final issue: do think that the attitude of those angry youth in France will move and spread to other countries in Europe?
Answer
These events are like an alarm towards the local authorities. Regarding to the death of 2 young people, the official version escaped policemen. However, policemen must protect them not kill them.
This reflects the crisis between the State representatives and the young people. So, they have to create atmosphere of confidence by introducing proximity police in order to create a link between policemen and people.
Romano Prodi expressed preoccupation because such social problems exist in Italy. We hope that the riots will end here in France and that politicians will resolve such problems.
More
http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=jInld0
Dhirulahi - Nigeria
Profession computer operator/Teaching
Question
What actually are the causes of this Unrest and why are they associating it with Islam or Muslims?
Answer
The causes are the death of two young people by an electro chock. They thought they were pursued by policemen. The majority of the inhabitants of these quarters are Muslims. That is why the unrest is associated with Islam.
Name
Kamal - Nigeria
Profession
Question
What do you thing the French government should do to face the riots incidents?
Answer
The government must be aware of what is happening within these poor quarters. We cannot resolve it within hours.
The French elite and all the other parts of the society must be aware that France is, now, multicultural and must accept all French people of Maghrebi origins or Turkish and African ones.
Name
Osama - Saudi Arabia
Profession
Question
Do you agree with me that the fatwa issued in France prohibiting participation in France will link Islam to the riots incident?
Answer
For me, there is a dangerous confusion in the sense that the Union of Islamic organizations of France is overcoming its role and tries to confuse its role with the State one.
There are a lot of critics expressed by Muslims after the issuing of this fatwa as it memories the collaboration of Muslim preachers with France during the occupation of Algeria.
Name
M. Muhsin - Hungary
Profession
Question
Does religion have something to do with riots in France?
Answer
No, there is no direct link with the riots. It is rather the sign of misunderstanding in France, a social misunderstanding.
Name
Bartholemew - United Kingdom
Profession
Question
It seems that an aspect of the riots relates to the poverty many of the immigrant community find themselves in, with little opportunity to change their circumstances. In trying to find an 'identity' do you believe the immigrant community will go from one extreme (where they are today having lost track of their cultural heritage) to another extreme (where they try to rediscover their cultural heritage) - swinging back and forth and not finding the balance that would be required to sustain a productive life in a multi-cultural environment (irrespective of how the immigrant community may be perceived by the non immigrant community). And how do we ensure that instead of these horrible swings back and forth all parties concerned find a way to being harmony such that everyone wins?
Answer
It is obvious today that we are insisting on the come-back of young generations to their identity and mostly are re-discovering their Muslim identity. This is a first significant fact.
But, it is also true that young Muslims in France are the first ones to be the victim of the economic recession. Some of them isolate themselves with communitarian entities and others are trying to be more open towards the society in order to have better chances to succeed in their lives.
A great number of Muslim associations are working with different parts of the society.
In France, it is obvious that Muslims has not to isolate themselves and must at the contrary participate in the building of a multicultural society, respecting the difference and the specificities of others.
Name
Muhamme - United Arab Emirates
Profession
Question Assalamu alaickum
Could you tell us the real cause of the riots ?
Answer
The real causes are social and economic. Also, non-Muslim French people are involved in this crisis. But, the real victims are Muslims, of course especially those who live in poor quarters.
Name
Fahd Hussain - Canada
Profession Investment Banker
Question
I don't think that rioting is always wrong. In certain situations it is a catalyst that brings about change. It is very similar to the situation in the US in the turbulent 60's. This not about religion it is more to do about the poor class rising up to demand there rights. These teenagers have forced the government to address there grievances. I think that the Muslim community in France should take this opportunity and form a grass roots movement to demand equal treatment. The riots should be the first step in a longer term process.
Answer
Yes it is true that there a lot of discrimination in France. But, despite all, there is an institutional racism towards Muslim French people such as Maghrebis, Turkish people and Africans.
The challenge is to know that France is ready to accept non-European community, because France is an immigration territory. It integrated people from Belgium, Poland, Italy, Spain and Portugal and it seems difficult for this country to integrate Muslim community.
We can explain it by the fact that France has not ceased the Algerian issue. That is why they have to re-think their immigration model.
Name
Hassan - Sweden
Profession
Question
Salamoun Aalaikoum,
What we see happening in France was due to happen ages ago. We same problem in other European countries and this should be a good example for the rest of the country. Should not this problem be a concern of EU and not only of France? What are we really expecting as a result? How do you see the results for Minister of interior in his participation for elections for presidency 2007? Thank you.
Answer
This crisis is a French one because it is directly linked with the French model of integration.
The Prime minister gave his opinion and took some measures. One of these measures is an emergency state which is new in France since the Algerian War and thus, it does not give a good sense. We lack a political space vis-à-vis of these young people.
Nicolas Sarkozy is playing on two levels. First, he wants to seduce the different communities just like in the US and, second, he wants to seduce the extreme right Front National party. Where will he go? I have no answer.
Name
Richard - United States
Profession
Question
Not that I condone violence, but it would have been nice to see this kind out outrage over 9/11 in association with Muslims. Nothing! Just "Islam is Peaceful" on any media outlet they could talk to. However, two youth die in a Muslim area and all hell breaks loose. The hypocrisy speaks for itself.
Answer
Media and politicians have a great responsibility. Some of them participate in stigmatizing Muslim community. They just link facts which have no link one with each other.
We can not link the tragic 9/11 with young people living in poor quarters and are struggling to have a job.
Name
Marco - Canada
Profession
Question
I am very confused over this violence in France. I have read the Qur'an and find no permission to act this way. I have attended many mosques around the world and have met many a Muslim. Overall, I find Islam to be peaceful. However, considering the last few years it seems Muslims are the ones who are not peaceful. The religion is peace, its followers not. Yes, it is proper to blame all Muslims because you are considered one family. You as a people have failed time and time again to handle this violence. So, it is absolutely correct to say Islam is peaceful, but its followers at this time are not. I remember Judaism use to be peaceful as well and the Torah was beautiful. However, the Jews themselves were ignorant of God and he gave himself to another people more deserving. It's sad; you talk nicely and have pleasant words. However, you actions show failure to be united and get a handle on your people. It's your responsibility as a united family. I imagine God again will give his gift to a new people.
Answer
The young people in France are certainly Muslims but do not refer to Islam. This model of speech will not influence all the young people. That is why it is very important to know how they live and support them and is the responsibility of all the citizens.
Name
Murad -
Profession Student
Question
Salamalaikoum,
What will it take to end the riots (besides using force)? Does this have anything to do with the banning of the hijab? Thank you.
Answer
It has no direct link. But, this law provoked a deep sadness within Muslim community. The causes of the violence are social rather than religious.
Name
HOPE -
Profession
Question
Please give us a detailed description of the suburbanites' life socially and economically and how they can face their problems, please give us details and examples.
Answer In poor quarters, there are lot problems at different levels. The State does not give the same opportunities when we are in poor quarters as it gives to the other areas.
There is also a lot of discrimination when we are looking for a job or even for a home. For instance, we can find a great number of young people who have diplomas and they have no job because of their origins and the place of residence.
It is the same thing when you are looking for a house.
So, young people find themselves in a blocked situation and do not find any solution.
In France, there are reflections and proposals for change. They speak about positive discrimination for example, to have a better representation within media. But, the implementation of these ideas is facing problems.
Name
Amatullah -
Profession student
Question
Salaam,
What we seen in media before and after this problem French government seem to be acting selfish (shut their eye to suffering immigrants) they wish the immigrants disappear instantly. That would work they should have solutions. No schooling, no jobs. How do they want these young people to function?
Answer
The last governments faced this problem. Nobody knows how it will be resolved. There are young generations deprived of many things.
What's the solution? The Socialist government of under Mitterrand issued a city politics/strategy to resolve social and urban problems. This was provoked by 1981 riots incidents.
Sociologists and architects took part to this operation, by putting processes. But this experience had failed, as poor quarters revealed the State crisis. In fact, the City is the first victim of globalization.
Name
Frank - United States
Profession
Question
Why don't Muslims migrate back to there homeland, where liked mind Muslims live. How can you complain about the conditions, when you know from historical purpose that knows one gives power away voluntary? You have to develop your own institutions and economic means.
Answer
For these young people, their homeland is France.
Name
Begum Shofiq - Bangladesh
Profession freelance writer
Question
Salaam;
Do you think, Muslims will suffer more after the riot & ordinary people who are mostly non-Muslims will think negatively against Muslims & Islam?
Answer
Despite all, we are in a State of Law. These incidents even violent are means of expression.
As for the representation, the change will depend of Muslims themselves. We can not expect how they will think about us.
Name
Adel - Belgium
Profession
Question
I am sorry to say that your answers are repeated and have nothing new till now but I can understand that situation is not clear for many so please tell us as a third generation French citizen not as an expert or thinker how do you read the events in France on its cultural , economic and political level ? The second question do you think what is happening now can be considered a reaction against the idea of the EU after the French voting against the EU constitution? The third and the final issue: do think that the attitude of those angry youth in France will move and spread to other countries in Europe?
Answer
These events are like an alarm towards the local authorities. Regarding to the death of 2 young people, the official version escaped policemen. However, policemen must protect them not kill them.
This reflects the crisis between the State representatives and the young people. So, they have to create atmosphere of confidence by introducing proximity police in order to create a link between policemen and people.
Romano Prodi expressed preoccupation because such social problems exist in Italy. We hope that the riots will end here in France and that politicians will resolve such problems.
More
http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=jInld0
For more information:
http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/en...
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treats everybody the same," Taïb Ben Thabet, a social
worker in north of Paris, says "But what credibility do I
have when everything I say is contradicted by experience?
The kids say it's all lies."
The Christian Science Monitor
As too many news sorties are covering Paris riots, the
violence is still growing .In a wake-up call, a wave of
unrest by immigrant-descended young men has spread in
Paris' suburbs and major towns.
Living under very bad socio-economic circumstances, it was
expected that the suburbanites may cause such unrests. For
some people it's a moment of crystallization; the different
problems and debates of marginalizing the ethnic groups in
France have been resurfaced.
It's high time to ask about the real reasons and
addressing the roots of the problems. What has caused this
violence? Can we describe the French model of integration
as a one-way model; asking for the duties without affording
the rights? Knowing that the majority of Paris suburbanites
are Muslims, to which extent religion has affected the
whole scene? Can we consider the cultural and ethnic
differences as catalysts of this violence? The list can go
on with many other questions.
Let us think together of what we can do to face the
expected violence of the forgotten people, show them that
they do not have to protest violently in order to be heard
not only in France but everywhere.
More
What do you mean by Muslim integration in Europe and what should Muslims in Europe do to be integrated?
We need to face reality; Muslims who live in Europe, especially those who are born or brought up in Europe should consider Europe as their home; should accept European people as their own people and should share in the happiness and sadness of European community. This must be done regardless of faith and background. Integration here means Muslims living in Europe must accept that they are equal citizens in Europe and must work hard to contribute towards Europe's well being. There is a difference between integration and assimilation; while former means you retain your values and principles the latter means you loose them. I am calling on Muslims in Europe to keep Islam as their primary identity and ensure their practices is manifested contextually.
Assalam Alaykom Ajmal and thanks for being with us on islamonline I am going to ask you about the concept of citizenship in Europe which is not that strong and I have met many Europeans who do not know nationalism not only on their national level but on the European one. it seems that you are asking Muslims to be European more than the Europeans themselves ?
I am not calling for nationalism; in fact I oppose it. I am calling Muslims living Europe to accept their present reality. There are 15 million Muslims in Europe today and with Turkey it will exceed 100 million. If Muslims behave as they are still in the middle east or Asia or Africa while living in Europe they would misrepresent Islam. What I am calling for is an attitude change where we feel equal as citizens in Europe. I am calling for a change in understanding so that we exemplify Islam in the European context. The concept of citizenship in Islam is beautifully explained in the Qur'an where Allah sets out our roles and responsibilities as custodians of this earth. He says your most important duty is to concerned with the welfare of your immediate people, family, neighbors and localities. This is the concept of citizenship, people are united by their core concerns of wanting live in harmony and peace, economic prosperity and equal opportunity. I am calling on Muslims to demonstrate their willingness to be part of the European experience and shape its future. I don't have to ask this to the native Europeans since they are already one.
Why do you ask Muslims all the time to be European although you have never asked Europe to Understand our culture which is not European... We are not asking Europe to be Muslim ??
You are right, Europe should understand its diverse cultures including Islam; but the responsibility of explaining and articulating Islam lies with Muslims living in Europe. Many Muslims are the worst examples of Islam, no wonder very few non-Muslims understand Islam. When you talk about Muslim culture, you don't refer to a monolithic culture, each and every Muslim community from a wide range of countries and background bring with them a rich array of cultures; since Islam does not reject any culture unless it contradicts with a clear Islamic ethical and moral principle, why not create a new culture in Europe that is inclusive of Islam.
Do you think that the young Generation in Europe is able to integrate into the European Societies and what is making it different ?
Yes Muslims are able to integrate in Europe but the difficulties can be over come if we understand the nature of these difficulties and put forward a clear and cohesive strategy to do that.
There are many barriers:
1. Muslims - Muslims inability to adapt to new environment is a key factor. Muslims explain Islam using language and experience that are foreign. Muslims insist on being Arabs, Asian or African while living in Europe and would like everyone else to become Arabs, Asians or Africans when they come to Islam. This is not Islam. This is cultural imperialism. We need Muslims in Europe to understand they no longer live in their respective countries of origin and as long as they insist on that connection, they will be a big barrier.
2. Lack of understanding of Islam amongst Europeans - Majority of European people do not understand Islam and they have not had an opportunity to hear Islam in a way that they can understand.
3. Institutions - There are institutional barriers that also stop such integration one recent example of Turkey and Europe highlight the depth of the problem.
4. Discrimination and Islamophobia - Muslims face numerous disadvantage because of both their ethnic and religious identity. This is also another key barrier.
There is a lot of work that needs doing, we all need to get on with it.
Hello Ajmal . a friend of mine told me about you and your lectures in Romania ( the EuroIslam project ) How did you see the conference and how do you answer its main question Islam and Europe mixed or separated ? for me I think that Islam and Europe can share a common ground without being mixed or separated ?
Hi Raoof. There is a problem with your question. I did say in the conference that Islam does not need a local definition, it is universal and by nature open to everyone regardless of their background. So I see the future of Islam in Europe as a fantastic opportunity for the humanity to progress even further. So Europe's future and the world's future is unquestionably together. But the problem is with the Muslims. If we remain foreigners we should not be surprised if we are kept out in the cold and thus left separate.
Becoming an European Muslim is not an easy task but what do you think Muslim can do to spread the message of Islam and apply its practicability in a predominantly non Islamic society.
A simple answer is "Live Islam"; actions speak louder than words. If Muslims genuinely live Islam in their day to day lives, if they demonstrate Islam in their professions, in their institutions, non Islamic society would find Islam attractive.
What are the channels that should be taken by Muslims to evolve their understanding of “Islamic activism”? Is it possible for a Muslim in Europe to contribute in the different fields to live Islam rather than to talk to the people about it?
I think the second part of your question is crucial to this discussion. Islam strongly demands of us that we practice what we preach for Allah in the Quran says He hates most those who say things that don't practice. We find in the life of the Prophet (peace) a living example of Islam. Thus I agree we must live Islam and it is through living we would generate interest and discussions about Islam for others. The fields of contribution is so wide, I believe we should contribute in areas that inspires us most and our skill sets match the best.
Given the fact that 52% of the Muslims in the UK are young (under the age of 25), it is said that the coming generations may be more capable of integration as they should command the language and the social skills. What do you think?
I agree with you entirely.I think one fact that has not been talked about sufficiently is the capability of Muslims to integrate. The first generation of Muslims who came to various parts of Europe including UK do not have sufficient know-how or confidence to make such a leap into integration the next generation of your people certainly have a better understanding of the society and the language skills to help them integrate. What they need is also a better understanding of Islam.
Assalam alaykom Ajmal
Please tell me how do you see the future of Muslims in Europe ( the positive and the negative sides ) ?
The positive side is:
In 10 years time:
1. there are over 100 million Muslims in Europe
2. Muslims are members of Parliament in their respective European member countries in proportion to the size of their population
3. Muslims are members of European parliament proportionate to the number of Muslims in Europe
4. Muslims are in key influential positions informing policies and key local and international decision.
5. Muslims history and experience is part of the new European narrative
Negative:
1. Muslims are more backward and insular
2. They live in small ghettos
3. They have Imams and leaders who are incompetent
4. They face more discrimination and Islamophobia
5. They are always fire-fighting for their basic rights.
6. Many Muslims are regularly deported to countries of their ethnic origin.
Hello Ajmal
only one question.. why Muslims in Europe have to be European and if they can not integrate what are the alternatives to integration?
None! You can not live an isolated life, it is not Islamic. Islam requires of us that we interact with people and we get involved in common good. If Muslims claim to be representatives of Islam in Europe, surely they can not represent Islam adequately without integrating. There is one option, the earth is big, move to a place where you can connect and contribute to your full potential.
Is there such a thing as nationalism in Islam? I thought Muslims sole pride and loyalty was towards Allah?
There is nothing called nationalism in Islam. In fact Islam condoms nationalism. Muslims have to understand that Allah demands of us two relationships; one is called the vertical relationship, that is the relationship we have with Allah. We worship none but Him. The second relationship is called the horizontal relationship, that is our relationship with each other. We are discussing the horizontal relationship here. In this relationship local identity is vital to forming relationships and fundamental to shaping a collective future. So while loyalty is to Allah it is part Allah command that we articulate Islam and live it in the environment we are.
How do we balance the desire to retain aspects of our cultural heritage with the reality that we live in Europe. Where do we compromise in a desire to benefit from both our heritage and our current geography?
I think this is where we start. We need to generate a new discussion where we examine the European history as it is narrated now. It this narrative it is full of Euro-centric view of the world, it in complete denial of Islam's influence in the European Renaissance. We need to see a new narrative written where there is acknowledgement that Islam and its contribution to modern Europe, its history, its philosophy, its architecture , its science and technology etc. It is through this narration we would see the emergence of a new narrative where your heritage becomes part of the new heritage, I call it shared heritage.
what is islam ?
Alex, than you for asking, this is a quick note but it does need more explanation.
Islam is a choice, a lifestyle, an expression and a mindset that is based on belief in one God who is the creator and sustainer of the universe, who has created us Humans and everything else with a purpose. It is about leading a good virtuous and caring life and in this lifestyle one finds the purpose life. It is about this consciounce that enables a person to accept that there is life after death that is where one would find never ending life and pleasure or suffering and pain. One uses ones short temporal life to achieve the best one can while keeping their focus in the life hereafter. It is about being caring towards other human being, the environment and everything else in it. This is small introduction but for more explanation please read a book called Islam the natural way by Abdul Wahid Hamid.
Assalam Alaikum,
I wanted to know who are the people who are rioting? It appears they are Muslims. And if so what are the Muslim leaders' thoughts on possible solutions for this situation?
Dear Masood,
thanks a lot for your question.
Most of the people who rioting are definitely from a Muslim family descent. Two first remarks. If this is so, it does not mean that their anger is religiously based, but it is the product of the ethicist of the urban landscape. The French "cité" have sometimes more than 70% of Muslim population, they feel neglected and oppressed and their anger is a political language, a desperate and paradoxal quest of recognition. The problem is political much more than religious, that's why the role of Muslim leaders was very limited in both sense : French secularists suspected Islamist militants to push the youth to go on confrontation with the police, it was, as far as I know, not the case. But on the other side, Muslim leaders were not able to calm down the youth despite many attempts at different scales : a fatwa from the UOIF ("al-Ittihad"), many sermons on Friday, volunteers trying to speak to the youth and their families. Clearly it shows that the role of Muslim leaders in the suburbs is much less than many people thought : they are part of a much broader local governances, sharing influence with local committees social workers, families, also. Concerning solutions that Muslims could provide, I think that the problem of the riots is a broad national issue on which Muslim leaders have little influence : the fact that social inequality in France is now partly at least built on racial lines, but I am sure that we will have the occasion to discuss that later on.
Assalam u allaikum,
1) What do you suggest to Muslim families and youth living in France. How should they react? What should they do?
2) Muslims living in other countries how can they defend themselves in future from what is happening now in France?
Jzzak ALLAH!
Hi Faqeer, thanks a lot for your two relevant questions. The question is effectively what to do now. But to whom should this question be asked ? I am not sure that the "Muslim families" is the relevant actor: they are only part of global processes. The problem is how to address the issue of exclusion, from the top (the State) and from below (society). Let's leave the State at the moment and concentrate on society, and specifically the "cities", that are composed from Muslim families but also none Muslims, black sometimes but also French poor native . You have to get back to history, when they were built, after the second world war, during the sixties and seventies, they were highly politicized, controlled and organized under the leadership of syndicates, communist party, left-oriented organizations. All these political structures disappeared during the eighties, partly replaced by youth Muslim social movements such as " Union des Jeunes Musulmans " in Lyon for instance. But these movements are highly weakened now due to several reasons : no public support, heavy attacks launched against them, aging of some leaders and gentrification of others. Like in other places in the World. Muslim brothers are not really present in poor areas, leaving the space to groups such as Tabligh or Salafists, especially . But it seems to me that Salafism is much more formalizing a kind of retreat of the political arena than public involvement. So you don't have any structure today conveying political demands to the public sphere. The youth then used car burning and attacks to all public structures that they are considered responsible for their social relegation : schools, public transportation and of course the police. These riots, even if some have to be taken first off all as a political language, a desperate one, may be an in appropriated one, but a political act with a strong message addressed to the state. So I think the problem is big, does not concern families or Muslim families, but local politics : favor political contestation structures that act legally and these structures exist, some are Islamic, others are not, some are a mix of both of them.
Why did everyone link what's going on to Islam and Muslims,all of a sudden we are responsible of anything that happens in the world while everyone else is so good and peaceful, the people rioting in Paris are a mixture of different races and cultures, why is the media making it an Islamic issue?
Thanks Lana, this is a very important point.
Effectively, until the previous riots, it was interesting to notice that the issue of " poor suburbs " was since the early nineties in France linked with the question of Islam because the national media feared the appearance in the public space of social movements expressing a religious discourse, and these movements partly recruited in those deprived areas. It is a very sensitive point because it challenges the basics of the French republican model (secularist and individualistic). At the same time, I think that what is happening in France those days might show partly your anxiety. First of all, It shows that the French ghetto is a product of the French politics much more than a strategy of French Muslim populations, and as far as I know, after few articles addressing the question if some Muslim radicals are behind the riots, the medias addressed the issue of the deprived suburbs much more in social terms, giving quite a lot the possibility of the people of these areas to express their discontent.
I have read your CV and notice your interest in the suburban ,can you give us a clear idea in which way you are studying such phenomena ?
Thanks Lamis, long story ! I used to study Islam in Switzerland a long time ago for my PhD and went several times to Lyon at the time when the UJM was still on the rise, then I came back to my first love (Egypt) where I studied for four years a local suburb called Imbaba. Finally, I am back to Europe where I build some comparison (my last book) on the changes in religiosity in an Anthropological point of view. I left France two weeks before the beginning of the riots , after having a week in a suburb in Le Mans.
kindly explain vividly the genesis of the crisis in France. what measure do you think can be taken to ameliorate the said problems?
Thanks for this question. The crisis have several steps and of course has to be situated on the long term. First of all, there are two long term processes : the marginalization of these areas due to economical factors and social housing politics and the depolarization of the populations living in those areas which are also politically deprived. Afterwards you had a middle term factor : the Sarkozy politics, linked with the approach of the administration of these areas (drastic reduction of neighborhood, police, verbal provocation) that are used by police . A crucial point was Sarkozy's "result culture" approach, pushing policemen to make figures, that means to come with arrests. This had a multiplicative effect on the social resentment, especially among young men. Finally you had the death of Zyad and Bounna, followed by police declaration which was understood as a lie and on top of that the tear gas inside the Billal mosque. First of all, the riots were spontaneous, without clear meaning, at the end, it was a challenge to the coactive approach of the interior minister, a challenge that the young won. It proved that coactions was producing violence not social peace. but at the same time, the gap between anything official and these populations is widened strongly. State means oppression but at the same time the government responses (reopening special budgets for social welfare) proved that violence is giving results
As far as trust (in the institutions, in the State, in the government) is concerned, I would think that the dismissal of Sarkozy would be a useful on short term. On the long term, there is clearly a thing that has to be addressed : the fact that social inequality is organized in ethnic and religious terms. so either you accept a communitarian model that is partly de facto present in France (but ideological not recognized) and support a community building process, or you stick to a real integrative model that does not exist in fact. But the problem is that the populations in these areas are not organized on communalist lines : look at the inability of religious leaders to restore peace, at the fact that families obviously have to authority on their children, at the fact that they attack sometimes the cars of their neighbors. These youth are the sons of the Republic, but the abandoned sons. So if individualization prevails (and everybody says it in those suburbs), the State should simply act according to his own credo. But it will cost a lot and clash with a neo-liberal orientation. so I would not be very optimistic : behind the fire, there are long term and intimate wounds and pains that will take time to heal.
Do you expect the riots in France to be spread in other EU countries?
I have no prediction, only a hope : that the riots will be interpreted as a symbolical act, as a political demand, and responded as such.
Do you expect that the riots in France will be spread in other EU countries?
Already has been answered.
Assalamalaikum
Why can't this whole situation be carried out in a peaceful way.Causing public damaged can't get any quick benefits.
causing public damage is the product of the deterioration of politics as I explained before, of course peaceful means are better but the point is what are they ?
I wonder what kind of model is the French model of integration; during the Hijab crisis they insisted that the French citizens should be equally treated and represented themselves in the public domain . How can we understand the current situation if there are many kind of discrimination in France?
Definitely, the French model is ambiguous. On one side official discourse will say that it only recognize individual, but "communities" are always present in the daily urban governance : in several cities, social housing is attributed according to ethic affiliation (Moroccans, Algerians), local politicians will play with "Muslim vote" or seek to co-opt with "community leaders", recruitment in companies are working on an ethnic preference, and even if there were attempts to correct this, it has never worked : ethnic and religious affiliation are now a part of lines of inequality in France, but also the expression of a society that battle against social mixture. If you are petit bourgeois you will do a maximum to be a bourgeois, if you are at that stage you will invest big efforts and money to reach the superior stage. And in the poor quarters, everybody wants to leave the community ; the "French ghetto" (Eric Maurin) is a global social phenomenon, that is build from top-to-down, and therefore very difficult to change only with political decision. Clearly in France the republican model of equality of chances is an illusion.
Marginalization is the keyword of what we are seeing now , do you think that the right wing parties will benefit from the incidents in France?
Hi Reham, I think that marginalization is the keyword, but there is another one : dignity. The incidents are clearly orchestrated by people such as Jean-Marie Le Pen or Phillipe de Villiers, and certainly it will give some votes to everybody who thinks in security terms and not in terms of dignity. At the same time, political memory is most of the time short so there are some reasons to be optimistic.
"Why Now?" Because Muslim guilt has slowly gone away. After 9/11 many Muslims were ashamed to be lumped together with the terrorists. We felt like we had to explain things and take perhaps partial responsibility for those bums on 9/11. We are a huge family. We care about all peoples. However, when Western governments keep pushing us Muslims more and more because they can...things happen. We are not going to take it anymore. Crazy laws that followed 9/11 will fall and Muslims today have had enough. We're sorry bombings have occurred. We sincerely are. We sorry many people cannot see Muslims as productive human beings who deserve more than poverty. However, we're not going to take abuse anymore. Focus on the terrorist, not the Muslim. Focus on treating us like human beings who can work well with all peoples if given a chance.
Hi Abdallah,
There is effectively a problem of recognition, but I am not that sure that the anger in the suburbs is organized in such broad ideological terms. Motivations seems much more local to me : police harassment, daily controls plays a major role. Youth were upset to be qualified as "rabble". I think that violence is a radical way to express adherence to republican values that are ignored in a systematic way and that Islam is not a direct element in what is going on (it plays nevertheless a role in an indirect way as one of the marginalized factor in addition to race and place of living)