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The "SF-IMC sucks" thread.
The "SF Indymedia Editorial Policy" thread is getting pretty full. Everything that can be said about our editorial policy has been said already. Much of it has been repeated ad nauseum. But there's more to SF-IMC than our editorial policy.
So all of you out there who would like to address such crucial, pressing issues as our ancestry, our table manners or our sexual proclivities, now have a thread of your own. This is it. Put that stuff here. Try to be clever. Thanks in advance.
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Since the trolls aren't interesting in coming here, let's just sit around and bash them.
Don't you all love fascists who would like to burn the Koran coming here and whining about "free speech" because they can't post their photoshopped images of Arafat having anal sex etc etc? Shit, its so funny every time one of them starts whining .......
Don't want to burn the Koran, actually have respect for most established religions and especially individuals' right to practice them.
Can't stand when some pervert a perfectly fine and upstanding religion to meet their twisted needs to beat someone else over the head.
It's true, sometimes I whine, but I'm trying to give it up.
I don't have photoshop and have no desire whatsoever to see Arafat or anyone else having anal sex anywhere.
Am I a troll?
Toad
you sound kinda boring....
I guess the title could be a positive statement intended to draw people into indymedia but I doubt it (most people who suck are picky enough they wouldnt go around advertising it as a group recruitment tactic).
Don't want to burn the Koran, actually have respect for most established religions and especially individuals' right to practice them.
Can't stand when some pervert a perfectly fine and upstanding religion to meet their twisted needs to beat someone else over the head.
It's true, sometimes I whine, but I'm trying to give it up.
I don't have photoshop and have no desire whatsoever to see Arafat or anyone else having anal sex anywhere.
Am I a troll?"
Hmmm .. maybe. I don't really define trolls on the basis of whether they are conservative or not. Alot of conservatives are very intelligent and make good points. Very few of those are of the neo-conservative flavour though. Neo-conservatives are a confused bunch. One minute they claim to abhor collectivism; the next they are calling for laws curtailing individual rights to protect the majority. Pure collectivism.
I define a troll by the following symptoms:
1. CHARACTER ASSASSINATION.
Trolls often attack the character of an opponent rather than deal with the facts or issues raised. They will question motives, qualifications, past associations, alleged values, personality, looks, mental health, and so on as a diversion from the issues under consideration. Some of these matters are not entirely irrelevant , but they should not serve to avoid the real issues.
Trolls object strenuously when this is done to them, of course!
2. NAME-CALLING AND LABELING.
Trolls are quick to resort to epithets (racist, subversive, pervert, hate monger, nut, crackpot, degenerate, un-American, anti-semite, red, commie, nazi, kook, fink, liar, bigot, and so on) to label and condemn opponents in order to divert attention from their arguments and to discourage others from hearing them out. These epithets don't have to be proved to be effective; the mere fact that they have been said is often enough.
3. IRRESPONSIBLE SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS.
Trolls tend to make sweeping claims or judgments on little or no evidence, and they have a tendency to confuse similarity with sameness. That is, they assume that because two (or more) things, events, or persons are alike in some respects, they must be alike in most respects. The sloppy use of analogy is a treacherous form of logic and has a high potential for false conclusions.
4. INADEQUATE PROOF FOR ASSERTIONS.
Trolls tend to be very fuzzy about what constitutes proof, and they also tend to get caught up in logical fallacies, such as post hoc ergo propter hoc (assuming that a prior event explains a subsequent occurrence simply because of their before and after relationship). They tend to project wished-for conclusions and to exaggerate the significance of information that confirms their beliefs while derogating or ignoring information that contradicts them. They tend to be motivated by feelings more than facts, by what they want to exist rather than what actually does exist. Trolls do a lot of wishful and fearful thinking.
5. ADVOCACY OF DOUBLE STANDARDS.
Trolls generally tend to judge themselves or their interest group in terms of their intentions, which they tend to view very generously, and others by their acts, which they tend to view very critically. They would like you to accept their assertions on faith, but they demand proof for yours. They tend to engage in special pleading on behalf of themselves or their interests, usually because of some alleged special status, past circumstances, or present disadvantage.
6. TENDENCY TO VIEW THEIR OPPONENTS AND CRITICS AS ESSENTIALLY EVIL.
To the Troll, opponents hold opposing positions because they are bad people, immoral, dishonest, unscrupulous, mean-spirited, hateful, cruel, or whatever, not merely because they simply disagree, see the matter differently, have competing interests, or are perhaps even mistaken.
7. MANICHAEAN WORLDVIEW.
Trolls have a tendency to see the world in terms of absolutes of good and evil, for them or against them, with no middle ground or intermediate positions. All issues are ultimately moral issues of right and wrong, with the "right" position coinciding with their interests. Their slogan is often "those who are not with me are against me."
8. ADVOCACY OF SOME DEGREE OF CENSORSHIP OR REPRESSION OF THEIR OPPONENTS AND/OR CRITICS.
This may include a very active campaign to keep opponents from media access and a public hearing, as in the case of blacklisting, banning or "quarantining" dissident spokespersons. They may actually lobby for legislation against speaking, writing, teaching, or instructing "subversive" or forbidden information or opinions. They may even attempt to keep offending books out of stores or off of library shelves, discourage advertising with threats of reprisals, and keep spokespersons for "offensive" views off the airwaves or certain columnists out of newspapers. In each case the goal is some kind of information control. Trolls would prefer that you listen only to them. They feel threatened when someone talks back or challenges their views.
9. TEND TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES IN TERMS OF WHO THEIR ENEMIES ARE: WHOM THEY HATE AND WHO HATES THEM.
Accordingly, Trolls may become emotionally bound to their opponents, who are often competing Trolls themselves. Because they tend to view their enemies as evil and powerful, they tend, perhaps subconsciously, to emulate them, adopting the same tactics to a certain degree. For example, anti- Communist and anti-Nazi groups often behave surprisingly like their opponents. Anti-Klan rallies often take on much of the character of the stereotype of Klan rallies themselves, including the orgy of emotion, bullying, screaming epithets, and even acts of violence. To behave the opposite of someone is to actually surrender your will to them, and "opposites" are often more like mirror images that, although they have "left" and "right" reversed, look and behave amazingly alike.
10. TENDENCY TOWARD ARGUMENT BY INTIMIDATION.
Trolls tend to frame their arguments in such a way as to intimidate others into accepting their premises and conclusions. To disagree with them is to "ally oneself with the devil," or to give aid and comfort to the enemy. They use a lot of moralizing and pontificating, and tend to be very judgmental. This shrill, harsh rhetorical style allows them to keep their opponents and critics on the defensive, cuts off troublesome lines of argument, and allows them to define the perimeters of debate.
11. USE OF SLOGANS, BUZZWORDS, AND THOUGHT-STOPPING CLICHES.
For many Trolls shortcuts in thinking and in reasoning matters out seem to be necessary in order to avoid or evade awareness of troublesome facts and compelling counter-arguments. Trolls generally behave in ways that reinforce their prejudices and alter their own consciousness in a manner that bolsters their false confidence and sense of self-righteousness.
12. ASSUMPTION OF MORAL OR OTHER SUPERIORITY OVER OTHERS.
Most obvious would be claims of general racial or ethnic superiority-- a master race, for example. Less obvious are claims of ennoblement because of alleged victimhood, a special relationship with God, membership in a special "elite" or "class," and a kind of aloof "highminded" snobbishness that accrues because of the weightiness of their preoccupations, their altruism, and their willingness to sacrifice themselves (and others) to their cause. After all, who can bear to deal with common people when one is trying to save the world! Trolls can show great indignation when one is "insensitive" enough to challenge these claims.
13. DOOMSDAY THINKING.
Trolls often predict dire or catastrophic consequences from a situation or from failure to follow a specific course, and they tend to exhibit a kind of "crisis- mindedness." It can be a Communist takeover, a Nazi revival, nuclear war, earthquakes, floods, or the wrath of God. Whatever it is, it's just around the corner unless we follow their program and listen to the special insight and wisdom, to which only the truly enlightened have access. For Trolls, any setback or defeat is the "beginning of the end!"
14. BELIEF THAT IT'S OKAY TO DO BAD THINGS IN THE SERVICE OF A "GOOD" CAUSE.
Trolls may deliberately lie, distort, misquote, slander, defame, or libel their opponents and/or critics, engage in censorship or repression , or undertake violence in "special cases." This is done with little or no remorse as long as it's in the service of defeating the Communists or Fascists or whomever. Defeating an "enemy" becomes an all- encompassing goal to which other values are subordinate. With Trolls, the end justifies the means.
15. EMPHASIS ON EMOTIONAL RESPONSES AND, CORRESPONDINGLY, LESS IMPORTANCE ATTACHED TO REASONING AND LOGICAL ANALYSIS.
Trolls have an unspoken reverence for propaganda, which they may call "education" or "consciousness-raising." Symbolism plays an exaggerated role in their thinking, and they tend to think imprecisely and metamorphically. Harold D. Lasswell, in his book, *Psychopathology and Politics*, says, "The essential mark of the agitator is the high value he places on the emotional response of the public." Effective Trolls tend to be effective propagandists. Propaganda differs from education in that the former teaches one what to think, and the latter teaches one how to think.
16. HYPERSENSITIVITY AND VIGILANCE.
Trolls perceive hostile innuendo in even casual comments; imagine rejection and antagonism concealed in honest disagreement and dissent; see "latent" subversion, anti-semitism, perversion, racism, disloyalty, and so on in innocent gestures and ambiguous behaviors. Although few Trolls are clinically paranoid, many of them adopt a paranoid style with its attendant hostility and distrust.
17. USE OF SUPERNATURAL RATIONALE FOR BELIEFS AND ACTIONS.
Some Trolls, particularly those involved in "cults" or extreme religious movements, such as fundamentalist Christians, militant Zionist Trolls, and members of mystical and metaphysical organizations, claim some kind of supernatural rationale for their beliefs and actions, and that their movement or cause is ordained by God. In this case, stark extremism may become reframed in a "religious" context, which can have a legitimizing effect for some people. It's surprising how many people are reluctant to challenge religiously motivated extremism because it represents "religious belief" or because of the sacred- cow status of some religions in our culture.
18. PROBLEMS TOLERATING AMBIGUITY AND UNCERTAINTY.
Indeed, the ideologies and belief systems to which Trolls tend to attach themselves often represent grasping for certainty in an uncertain world, or an attempt to achieve absolute security in an environment that is naturally unpredictable or perhaps populated by people with interests opposed to their own. Trolls exhibit a kind of risk- aversiveness that compels them to engage in controlling and manipulative behavior, both on a personal level and in a political context, to protect themselves from the unforeseen and unknown. The more laws or "rules" there are that regulate the behavior of others-- particular their "enemies"--the more secure Trolls feel.
19. INCLINATION TOWARD "GROUPTHINK."
Trolls, their organizations , and their subcultures are prone to a kind of inward-looking group cohesiveness that leads to what Irving Janis discussed in his excellent book Victims of Groupthink. "Groupthink" involves a tendency to conform to group norms and to preserve solidarity and concurrence at the expense of distorting members' observations of facts, conflicting evidence, and disquieting observations that would call into question the shared assumptions and beliefs of the group.
Right-wingers (or left-wingers), for example, talk only with one another, read material that reflects their own views, and can be almost phobic about the "propaganda" of the "other side." The result is a deterioration of reality-testing, rationality, and moral judgment. With groupthink, shared illusions of righteousness, superior morality, persecution, and so on remain intact, and those who challenge them are viewed with skepticism and hostility.
20. TENDENCY TO PERSONALIZE HOSTILITY.
Trolls often wish for the personal bad fortune of their "enemies," and celebrate when it occurs. When a critic or an adversary dies or has a serious illness, a bad accident, or personal legal problems, Trolls often rejoice and chortle about how they "deserved" it. I recall seeing right-wing Trolls celebrate the assassination of Martin Luther King and leftists agonizing because George Wallace survived an assassination attempt. In each instance their hatred was not only directed against ideas, but also against individual human beings.
21. TROLLS OFTEN FEEL THAT THE SYSTEM IS NO GOOD UNLESS THEY WIN.
For example, if public opinion turns against them, it was because of "brainwashing." If their followers become disillusioned, it's because of "sabotage." The test of the rightness or wrongness of the system is how it impacts upon them...
you got bored talking to yourself? It sucked? It was a stupid and boring thread? We all got tired of listening about your obsession?
you got bored talking to yourself? It sucked? It was a stupid and boring thread? We all got tired of listening about your obsession?
http://www.indybay.org/news/2001/12/111351_comment.php#111562
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foolish carrion, turd, mountain of mummy, panderly rascal,
brazen-face, old, cozening queen, you baggage, you polecat, you
ronyon, poor unvirtuous fat knight, superstitious idle-headed
eld, boor, thick-skin, muscle-shell, vile worm, hodgepudding, bag
of flax, puffed man, old, cold, withered, and of intolerable
entrails, great lubberly boy, spotted and inconstant man, jaws of
darkness, waggish boy, thou lob of spirits, fat and bean-fed
horse, rash wanton, progeny of evils, you hard-hearted adamant,
spotted snake with double tongue, thorny hedgehog, lack-love,
kill-courtesy, hempen homespun, cowardly, giantlike oxbeef,
shallowest thickskin of that barren sort, thou cat, thou burr,
vile thing, you juggler, you canker blossom, you thief of love,
you counterfeit, you puppet, thou painted maypole, vixen, you
dwarf, you minimus, of hind'ring knotgrass made, you bead, you
acorn, king of shadows, you runaway, idle gaud, patched fool,
dear Lady Disdain, hard heart, rare parrot-teacher, hypocrite,
professed tyrant, flouting Jack, obstinate heretic, young start-
up, old cuckold with horns on his head, piece of valiant dust,
clod of wayward marl, Prince's jester, toothpicker, my Lady
Tongue, double heart, mother of fools, contaminated stale, ill
singer, foul blot, vane blown with all winds, block, wild heart,
little hangman, truant, hobby-horse, scab, true drunkard,
deformed thief, vile thief, One Deformed, illegitimate
construction, approved wanton, common stale, most foul, thou pure
impiety, foul-tainted flesh, strange sore, Count Comfect, thou
naughty varlet, candle-waster, thou dissembler, dotard, braggart,
milksop, scambling, outfacing, fashion-mongering boy, Calf's
head, capon, woodcock, Lord Lackbeard, cursing hypocrite, shallow
fool, wronger, offender, quondam carpetmonger, Don Worm,
slanderous tongue, double-dealer, martyr slain in Cupid's wars,
Signior Sooth, Pilch, Patch-breech, craver, rudeliest welcome to
this world, poor inch of nature, roastmeat for worms, gosling,
young foolish sapling, malkin, harpy, lown, peevish baggage, herb
woman, thou damned door-keeper, coistrel, baboon, basest groom,
fairy motion, sad fool, ancient substitute, weak slave, heartless
hind, transparent heretic, man of wax, wanton light of heart,
candle-holder, small, grey-coated gnat, round little worm,
princox, loathed enemy, dull earth, open-arse, poperin pear,
young waverer, pale hard-hearted wench, Prince of Cats,
courageous captain of compliments, fashion-monger, saucy
merchant, flirt-gill, skains-mate, you rat-catcher, Good King of
Cats, braggart, worm's meat, wretched boy, sober-suited matron,
serpent heart, beautiful tyrant, fiend angelical, dove-feather'd
raven, wolvish-ravening lamb, despised substance of divinest
show, mistress minion you, you green-sickness carrion, you
tallow-face, young baggage, disobedient wretch, mumbling fool,
wretched puling fool, whining mammet, dishclout, most wicked
fiend, caitiff wretch, thou detestable maw, thou tomb of death,
fiend of hell, rotten apple, aglet-baby, old trot, woodcock,
irksome bawling scold, wildcat, thou hilding of a devilish
spirit, rascal fiddler, twanging Jack, craven, mad-cap ruffian,
swearing Jack, greybeard, wrangling pedant, a very toad,
preposterous ass, old pantaloon, pedascule, mad-brain rudesby,
frantic fool, jolly surly groom, tired jade, mad master, you
three-inch fool, you logger-headed and unpolished groom, you
peasant swain, whoreson malt-horse drudge, heedless jolthead,
unmanner'd slave, proud disdainful haggard, thou false deluding
slave, thou thread, thou thimble, thou flea, thou nit, thou
winter-cricket thou, thou rag, thou quantity, thou remnant,
crack-hemp, mad ass, foul contending rebel, counter-caster, thou
foul thief, thou silly gentleman, finder out of occasions, night-
brawler, lewd minx, young and sweating devil, simple bawd, subtle
whore, thou weed, thou public commoner, impudent strumpet,
insinuating rogue, cogging, cozening slave, scurvy fellow, young
quat, notable strumpet, trash, perjured woman, dolt, murderous
coxcomb, puny whipster, demi-devil, Spartan dog, false trembling
coward, recreant and most degenerate traitor, overwheening
traitor, gilded loam, you painted clay, out-dared dastard,
caitiff recreant, traitor, foul and dangerous, guilty soul,
lunatic, lean-witted fool, most degenerate, a parasite, keeper-
back of Death, banished traitor, caterpillar of the commonwealth,
thou coward majesty, thou little better thing than earth, nimble
mischance, dishonorable boy, you Pilate, thou haught, insulting
man, thou ladder, unruly woman, unthrifty son, young wanton and
effeminate boy, commonest creature, treacherous son, shrill-
voiced supplicant, sour husband, frantic woman, hardhearted lord,
jealous o'erworn widow, nighty gossip, creeping venomed thing,
black magician, unmannered dog, thou dreadful minister of hell,
thou lump of foul deformity, diffused infection of a man,
devilish slave, hedgehog, rancorous enemy, silken, insinuating
Jack, thou cacodemon, wrangling pirate, foul wrinkled witch,
peevish brat, thou hateful withered hag, troubler of the world's
peace, thou elvish-marked, abortive, rooting hog, slave of nature
and the son of hell, thou slander of thy heavy mother's womb,
thou loathed issue of thy father's loins, thou rag of honour,
bottled spider, poisonous bunch-backed toad, malapert, lunatic,
simple gull, sour ferryman, foul fiend, erroneous vassal, traitor
to the name of God, incapable and shallow innocent, idle weed,
parlous boy, covert'st sheltered traitor, tongueless block, iron-
witted fool, unrespective boy, little peevish boy, hellhound,
foul defacer of God's handiwork, excellent grand tyrant of the
earth, carnal cur, Hell's black intelligencer, petty rebel,
relenting fool, shallow, changing woman, doubtful, hollow-hearted
friend, white-livered runagate, wretched, bloody, and usurping
boar, foul swine, tardy sluggard, you base foul stone falsely
set, paltry fellow, milksop, overwheening rag, famished beggar,
poor rat, heir of shame, perfect gallows, you bawling,
blasphemous, incharitable dog, insolent noise-maker, wide-chapp'd
rascal, enemy inveterate, malignant thing, damn'd witch, blue-
eyed hag, freckled whelp hag-born, dull thing, you slave, who
never yields us kind answer, thou earth, thou, thou tortoise,
poisonous slave, thou most lying slave, whom stripes may move,
not kindness, filth as thou art, abhorred slave, thing most
brutish, you hag-seed, beauty's canker, spendthrift of tongue,
strange fish, holiday fool, most delicate monster, moon-calf,
glass-fac'd flatterer, bawd between fold and want, fool in good
clothes, thou damned baseness, thou disease of a friend, sworn
rioter, most smiling, smooth, detested parasite, courteous
destroyer, affable wolf, meek bear, you fool of fortune,
trencher-friend, cap-and-knee slave, you vapour, minute-Jack,
curl'd-pate ruffian, carper, cap of all fools alive, thou issue
of a mangy dog, thou tedious rogue, thou bright defiler of
Hymen's purest bed, poor fragment, slender ort, gross patchery,
foulspoken coward, pretty brabble, saucy controller of private
steps, unmarmerly intruder, foul adultress, fell cur of bloody
kind, you stony image, cold and dumb, thou map of woe, base
bondsman, joyless, dismal, black, and sorrowful issue, hellish
dog, sanguine, shallow-hearted boy, ye white-limed wall, ye
alehouse painted sign, long-tongued babbling gossip, sly frantic
wretch, incarnate devil, walleyed slave, most insatiate and
luxurious woman, inhuman traitor, ravenous tiger, accursed devil,
unhallowed slave, execrable wretch, breeder of dire events,
sneaking fellow, porridge after meat, chaff and bran, drayman,
thou bitch-wolf's son, thou mongrel beef-witted lord, toadstool,
porpentine, thou loathsomest scab in Greece, cobloaf, whoreson
cur, thou stool for a witch, thou sodden-witted lord, scurvy-
valiant ass, thou thing of no bowels, vile owl, fusty nut with no
kernel, trash, one besotted on sweet delights, gilt counterfeit,
paltry, insolent fellow, great-siz'd monster of ingratitude,
valiant ignorance, puling cuckold, still and dumb-discoursive
devil that tempts most cunningly, theme of all our scorns, thou
core of envy, thou crusty botch of nature, idol of idiot-
worshippers, fragment, thou full dish of fool, thou damnable box
of envy, you ruinous butt, you whoreson indistinguishable cur,
thou idle immaterial skein of sleeve silk, thou green sarsenet
flap for a sore eye, thou tassel of a prodigal's purse, thou
finch egg, louse of a lazar, herring without a roe, puttock,
sweet sink, sweet sewer, incontinent varlet, dissembling
abominable varlet, crafty swearing rascal, stale old mouse-eaten
dry cheese, thou boy-queller, most putified core, thou great-
siz'd coward, broker-lackey, fellow o' th' strangest mind i' th'
world, dry fool, mouse of virtue, thou ordinary fool, that has no
more brain than a stone, pickle-herring, thou cruell'st she
alive, babbling gossip, thou common recreation, time-pleaser,
affectioned ass, rascally sheep-biter, metal of India, fellow of
servants, not worthy to touch Fortune's fingers, gross
acquaintance, gull-catcher, notable contempt, thou most excellent
devil of wit, corruptor of words, dear venom, dear manikin, foul
collier, firago, hyperbolical fiend, thou dishonest Satan,
notable pirate, thou salt-water thief, uncivil lady, marble-
breasted tyrant, you very devil incardinate, you passy mesaures
pavin, ass-head, votary to fond desire, worthless post, testy
babe, exceeding puppet, sourest-natured dog that lives, you very
pebble stone, you kind of chameleon, notable lubber, jolt-head,
illiterate loiter, thou subtle, perjured, false, disloyal man,
you whoreson peasant, foolish lout, thou counterfeit to thy true
friend, thou friend of an ill fashion, thou common friend that's
without faith or love, fellow false, cold coward, dainty dominie,
you most coarse frieze capacity, ye jean judgment, scornful
piece, scurvy hilding, Babion with long tail and eke long tool,
scorn of women, changeling, leprous witch, polled bachelor,
simp'ring sire, abandoner of revels, mute contemplative, dam of
horror, sow of lead, you wanton calf, flax-wench, gross lout,
mindless slave, thou thing, bed-swerver, mankind witch, most
intelligencing bawd, callat of boundless tongue, gross hag,
boil'd brains, snapper-up of unconsidered trifles, lowborn lass,
queen of curds and cream, stretch-mouthed rascal, thou fresh
piece of excellent witchcraft, pedlar's excrement, old sheep-
whistling rogue, needy, hollow-eyed, sharp-looking wretch, a
living dead man, one o' th' false ones, this imperceiverant
thing, a very drudge of nature's, a very drab, such a dish of
skim milk, an ingrate and cankered, one not worth gooseberry, so
vile a lout, son and heir of a mongrel bitch, a boil, a plague-
sore, a new Gorgon, a mind diseas'd, a list of an English kersey,
one that serves a bad woman, a breath thou art, an ass-head, a
very valiant trencher-man, a stuffed man, a very forward March-
chick, a very dull fool, merely a dumb-show, one relish'd of a
base descent, the very butcher of a silk button, one half-
lunatic, one full of spleen, a very monster in apparel, such a
snipe, all in all spleen and nothing of a man, one light of
brain, what a slug, the sweating lord, a dumb statue or breathing
stone, a very shallow monster, a very weak monster, a most poor
credulous monster, a puppy-headed monster, a most perfidious and
drunken monster, a most scurvy monster, a most ridiculous
monster, you are the wonder of a poor drunkard, a howling
monster, one opposite to humanity, one whose grossness little
characters sum up, a very camel, a slave whose gall coins
slanders like a mint, a botchy core, a filthy piece of work, a
very land-fish, languageless, a dog-fox not proved worth a
blackberry, a very filthy rogue, a coward and a coistrel, a very
renegado, a most devout coward, religious in it, one full of
bread and sloth, a most unbounded tyrant, a mere dull shadow, a
mere gypsy, you rabble of vile confederates, herd of boils and
plagues, souls of geese, brace of unmeriting, proud, violent,
testy magistrates (alias fools), tongues o' th' common mouth,
petty spirits of region low, foul and pestilent congregation of
vapors, some quantity of barren spectators, gentlemen of the
shade, base contagious clouds, foul and ugly mists of vapours, ye
fat-guts, such toasts-and-butter, discarded unjust servingmen,
nest of hollow bosoms, men of grosser blood, sworn brothers in
filching, men proud of destruction, barbarous people, frosty
people, slanders of the age, fat-brained followers, a sort of
naughty persons, a sort of tinkers, rascal people, simple men,
giddy people, men of malice, wanton boys that swim on bladders,
faithful friends o' th' suburbs, bastards and else, degenerate,
bloody Neroes, rude multitude, summer-flies, kernes and
gallowglasses, weird women, crew of wretched souls, strangely-
visited people, our rarer monsters, wild and wanton herd, geminy
of baboons, newts and blind-worms, crew of patches, rude
mechanicals, that work for bread, a college of wit-crackers, new
tuners of accent, strange flies, these pardon-me's, unconstant
womankind, pictures out of doors, devils being offended, rough,
rug-headed kernes which live like venom, dogs easily won to fawn
on any man, Judases, each one thrice worse than Judas, noisome
weeds, so dissolute a crew, kites and buzzards, a knot of damned
bloodsuckers, a nest of spicery, a sort of vagabonds, rascals,
and runaways, scum of Britains and base lackey peasants, the most
needless creatures living, usurer's men, you knot of mouth-
friends, time's flies, general filths, fools on both sides, crows
and daws, thieves unworthy of a thing so stol'n, dull and
factious nobles, mutable, rank-scented meiny, vagrom men, troll-
my-dames, such waterflies and dimunitives of nature, brethren and
sisters of the hold-door trade, scoundrels and subtractors,
fools' zanies, store of muttons, poor slight sores, some severals
of headpiece extraordinary, foul-mouthed and caluminous knave,
wrangling knave, poor gallant knave, shrewd knave and unhappy,
poor, decayed, ingenius, foolish, rascally knave, foul knave,
knaves that smell of sweat, Fortune's knave, fantastical knave,
naughty knave, Sir knave, sly and constant knave, arrant knave,
untaught knaves, bacon-fed knaves, gorbellied knaves, rascally
yea-forsooth knave, a young knave and begging, arrant, malmsy-
nose knave, the rascally, scauld, beggarly, lousy, pragging
knave, scurvy, lousy knave, a counterfeit cowardly knave, crafty
knaves, a subtle knave, the lying'st knave in Christendom, By
holy Mary, there's knavery! lazy knaves, thou most untoward
knave, my lord's knave, base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-
suited, hundred-pound, filthy worsted-stocking knave, beastly
knave, stubborn ancient knave, muddy knave, unthrifty knave,
jealous rascally knave, poor cuckoldy knave, jealous wittoly
knave, lousy knave, lunatic knave, shrewd and knavish sprite, a
couple of as arrant knaves as any, little better than false
knaves, scurvy knave, what a pestilent knave is this same,
whoreson beetle-headed, flap-ear'd knave, knave very voluble, a
pestilent complete knave, a slipper and subtle knave, a devilish
knave, most villainous knave, base notorious knave, most unjust
knave, scurvy, doting, foolish knave, scurvy railing knave, a
good knave, a thin-faced knave, horrible villain, villain of the
earth, soulless villain, secret and villainous contriver, trusty
villain, whoreson senseless villain, dissembling villain, hungry,
lean-faced villain, insolent villain, all-worthy villain, thou
villain base, thou double villain, geck and scorn o' th' other's
villainy, smiling, damned villain, bloody, bawdy villain,
remorseless, treacherous, lecherous, kindless villain, stoney-
hearted villain, villainous abominable misleader of youth...
Oh yeah. You stole that from SmashTheLeft.
It does on other IMCs!
You'd better delete my last post.
http://www.sydney.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=24166&group=webcast
Though perhaps if you stare hard enough, I did.
Nice try though.
Since the fascist censors deleted our other thread, thought I'd post this crap here...
Hey Ryan?
by Eric • Monday December 09, 2002 at 06:20 AM
>But more importantly, I know who owns the media companies and what their motivations are...
Can you recommend any good reading on this?
add your comments
..............
by ............ • Monday December 09, 2002 at 06:30 AM
For you, Eric, Mein Kampf would probably be to your liking.
add your comments
Read it.
by Eric • Monday December 09, 2002 at 06:48 AM
In regards to the media it made frequent reference to the establishment and extensive use of "propaganda based newswires, independent of government control."
add your comments
..........
by ......... • Monday December 09, 2002 at 06:55 AM
I doubt very much it said "newswires" since that term was not coined until the 50s .....
nice try though
add your comments
Can't get anything past you...
by Eric • Monday December 09, 2002 at 07:20 AM
Gee you're a quick liberal huh? and witty too. Boy, you're too smart for me.
Got any more "verbal nukes" you want to send over, sweety??
add your comments
BTW, whoever posted with a description of trolls: this is very complete and quite well thought out. I now have a much better understanding of what a troll is, and I accept your definition. I have witnessed quite a few here in varying degrees. Maybe SF Indymedia really does suck, LOL! I will even admit to committing one or two of these on occasion.
To whoever posted asking about Thomas Paine: I am not as familiar with him yet as I am with the others. I do have, however, Common Sense and The Rights of Man, and will read it as time allows.
My original post needs some clarification. I am conservative, but lean toward the libertarian side. Not in all things, but the aforementioned heroes clearly felt that government should be a minimalist institution. I concur.
Whoever posted on Danny the Taffeta Punk: you, sir, need to get a job, LOL!
Toad
Clarification: everyone commits mistakes such as those listed. We are all, at times, guilty. The difference between trolls and the rest of us, is that every time a troll speaks, it can be fit into one of those categories. If you have found yourself committing these errors, it is good that you notice, and a probable sign that you are not a troll. Most trolls would rigourously deny that they ever do any of those things. That, or take false pride in it.
My post regarding Danny was a selection of Shakespearian quotations. Cut and paste. Don't think I actually spent time coming up with all that - I would never waste so much time on such a useless sack of foetid entrails. It was further meant as a display to certain people that anything they have thought themselves so clever for has been done a long time ago and done far, far, far, far better.
Why should anyone have their mail censored by these fuckers?
What planet are you from, again?
thanks for removing my messy plane script as requested.
But why did you ruin my cyber-graffiti?
BASTARDS!
btw, I think there's a bug on this page.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0121/p17s02-lehl.html
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/03/1581700_comment.php#1581716
Here is the direct quote:
"As long as you confine it to the appropriate thread:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/12/1548433.php
you can complain all you want, but it?s not going to do any good. Our minds are made up. You are our guests here. We make the rules. You follow them or you?re out of here. We rule against disruptive behavior. It annoys our other guests. If you don?t like this, tough. Feel free to go somewhere else. It?s a big ?net. Find a rock you like and crawl under it. There are plenty of them out there. Choose one, be gone, and stop annoying our guests. They complain. "
If you _don't_ keep your complaints about editorial policy to this thread, you will be threatened with being banned. This is a threat that has been carried through at least once.
Moral of the story: don't be uppity! Toe the party line when it comes to editorial policy, or Il Duce will _ban_ your ass, in the name of independent media, yup yup yup, independent media.
@%<
http://www.indybay.org/print.php?id=1625506
I figured it didn't make the commentary page since this was old hat.
Imagine my surprise when less than two hours later another article was entered about Jenin. It was critical of Israel (rather than balanced) and was bumped to the commentary page -- despite being about the exact same (non-current) topic.
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/07/1625539_comment.php
Doesn't seem as if activity is what propels an Article to the latest comments page, for many articles which don't even garner a response are explicitly "bumped" by a blank response.
If an article is neutral or defends Israel, it is effectively censored by not being displayed in the comments section where it will remain visible or discussed. Yet if the article takes a point-of-view condemning Israel, well, that's the fast track to the comments page.
In this very case, shouldn't the latter Article have been entered as a comment in the just-entered Article?
That's exactly the rub. By entering a new article (less than 2 hours after the first was posted!) and making it prominent via the comments page, the first article was effectively buried. Precisely to prevent the sheeple from reading an opposing view, even if (or perhaps especially because) it's the very confessions of the terrorists themselves, published in an Arab newspaper!
If you look around on this hate site - You can found lots of antizio's whining about being "censored" by the evil "zionists".
It’s mad, since at the same time themselves censor EVERYTHING what they disagree with .
LOL
(soon u will see how my post will be deleted too)
There is no shortage of irony in the fact that the wingnut Anti-zionist right wingers (since ALL neo-nazis and other right wingers are virulent
anti-zionist racist, ALL anti-zionists are right wing bigots) on other anti-racist site are complaining of being censored.
I clicked on one of the links they provided. It goes to a post which calls for ADL and thousand other
Anti-racist sites to be fired (i.e., CENSORED) bofor allegedly having made a single comment that many
right-wing Anti-zionist bigots found offensive. .
Personally, I probably wouldn't have pulled the post by the racist and nazi Antizionists.
While issues of freedom of expression are distinctly different when the forum is one that is funded and operated by private persons (rather than pheudalic and theocratic Saudis petrol money’ run Indymedia), there are also very important issues of humor that must not be taken for granted.
As such, because the original post (calling for the
Anti-racist (anti-antizionist) comments removal) was so ludicrous, of such lunatic nature, it should have been maintained in full view so that more of us could sit around and laugh at it.
Or are racist antiZionists too small-minded to tolerate speech they don't like?
You can read that crap on some other site. We refuse to allow our time, energy, skills and talent to used by racists, sexists, warmongers, etc. to maintain a soap box from which they can proclaim their sick, evil agenda.]
or, perhaps, sf indymedia could have more confidence in readers to draw their own conclusions
and, don't forget, the right wing stuff stays down at the bottom of the page unless it gets moved to the middle or the top, so readers will know how to avoid it if they are so inclined
and, if this is too great a stretch, it seems ill advised to me, from a practical perspective, given that right wingers post stuff here all the time that stays until the editors can get around to deleting it, so how much is ultimately accomplished by reading all these posts and pulling them?
we're mostly adults on this site, and those that aren't are obviously very politically aware, so we can read and write on our own, and draw our own conclusions
indeed, some of the right wing stuff I've seen on this site, things that got through the filter before the editor arrived with the fire engine and turned on the hose, actually helped me understand how perverse some of their ideas are, nothing like hearing it from the horse's mouth every now and then
instead of going through all these posts for content, you might just go through to see that only ONE is posted (thus thwarting those Likudniks who obsessively post the same message 25 times), and have some time left over for actually going out and doing interviews and covering stories (or heaven forbid, spending time with friends and lovers, believe me, if you don't know, that can be a lot of fun.)
unless, of course, the editors have developed a fetishistic fascination with this stuff, like the stereotype of the narc that uses drugs taken from his arrestees
it reminds of me what Laurence Olivier told Dustin Hoffman during the making of "The Boys in Brazil". Hoffman, a method actor, was in terrible shape, staying out on the street all hours, preparing for the scenes where Nazis chase him around NYC. Oliver asked Hoffman why he looked so terrible, tired, blootshot eyes, disheveled, and Hoffman explained.
Olivier responded, "you should try acting, my dear boy, it's a lot easier."
Likewise here, if just let us read the stories, and post comments, you'll find that "it's a lot easier".
First off, the IMC new process lists would never approve a second IMC in the same area.
Secondly, the complaint isnt that editors are hiding right wing posts. Its that they are hiding left wing posts either by accident or for political reasons and then yelling insults when they are asked about it.
While its YOUR SITE to run (despite the impossibilty of another IMC being set up in this same area), here is a little suggestion:
1. Posts with authors that mention that one is part of the IMC should NEVER be allowed unless the posts are approved by your collective. It make the site look like a blog if one editor does this all the time and it causes confusion since the political opinions of the editor are confused with the IMC's statement of purpose. Using "one of the editors" as an author name doesnt help since the post carries the extra weight of being from the collective (and if you get in a flame war the power to censor lingers behinds the arguments making heated discussion seem bully like). A problem on this site is that everyone now knows Nessie is an editor so his posts are seen as those of an editor. While it may seem a little extreme I would suggest that Nessie change his screen name since that would make the discussion more even handed (since people would not know that the power to censor hangs behind the harsh words).
2. Some limit on number of posts per day should be created. This could be policy for collective members or could be a technical solution (even just by author name). When one or two people (left wing, right wing or otherwise) spend all day arguing on this site it pushs other people out. If this is intended to be a news site there is no reason to encourage people to spend all day commenting on posts.
3. Hiding of posts should be done more carefully. Hiding seems to have started as a way to stop spam and long tirades by right wingers but its moving over into hiding of things editors disagree with but are not clearly right wing. The editors are treating hiding as a war with acceoptable collateral damage when things are hidden by mistake when they should see hding as picking weeds in a garden. Unless someone posts 300 of the same thing, or posts something that could get th3 site in legal trouble, the offensive opinions are unlikely to hurt people if they are on the site for a few hours while editors read what they hide before they hide.
I just reposted something that was hidden that came from the Chron and called for a crackdown on environmental activists; the original post fit with the thread and was obviously from someone scared that the article was published in the Chron. Not only was the original post hidden but complaint about it being hidden wasnt listened t.o I'm guessing it was a mistake so it could have easilly just been unhidden and the compliant hidden. (note that the original comment is by someone who hates Ayn Rand yet the reason given for the comment being hidden was that it contained the word Ayn Rand)
I have seen other examples of the same weird form of hiding. There have been a few times that people posted comments and linked to right wing (but non Nazi sites like Rush etc..) to bring to peoples attention what the Right was conspiring to do on verious issues. The posts even stated their political purpose in the comments but were hidden anyways for linking to unapproved sites.
There also needs to be a policy how to deal with nonleft but nonright comments. If a Libertarian posts something against the Patriot act that shouldnt get hidden. If a Communist group posts something you disagree with against anarchism, that shouldnt get hidden.
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Who am I as an outsider to ask such things?
Indymedia was never meant to be the voice of a single ideological faction of the left. By moving SF Indymedia in the direction where the views of the editors are the views of the posts (and other views are hidden) the power of all Indymedias is threatened. The NION posts to this site are by Communists, some of the video posts is by Green Party activists, and many of the pictures from large protests are taken by nonAnarchist liberals. The more you make such people feel unwelcome the less useful this site becomes. A new Indymedia could be started that is more welcoming to ALL activists in the Bay Area but I dont think that would even be possible (wasnt something similar blocked in DC when it was attempted?).
I personally don't want to wade through their stuff, or necessarily the green party's either (they have resources, their own website, etc) in order to get to the left-wing (or "ultra-left") news, discussion, etc.
The reason Indymedia manages to cover so much is that its seen as nonsectarian by many people. If it were to become an anarchist site and openly demean nonanarchist movements (even if that meant only highlighting anarchist posts), the content would go way way downhill. It takes work to take pictures, edit video and post. One cant just assume that one can demean someone's politics and still have them post. If only anarchists posted I doubt the site would have much news.
The site does ok. But as with most activist groups there has to be a constant struggle to prevent ideologes from alienating everyone who doesnt have their exact viewpoint.
1. Posts with authors that mention that one is part of the IMC should NEVER be allowed unless the posts are approved by your collective. It make the site look like a blog if one editor does this all the time and it causes confusion since the political opinions of the editor are confused with the IMC's statement of purpose. Using "one of the editors" as an author name doesnt help since the post carries the extra weight of being from the collective (and if you get in a flame war the power to censor lingers behinds the arguments making heated discussion seem bully like). A problem on this site is that everyone now knows Nessie is an editor so his posts are seen as those of an editor. While it may seem a little extreme I would suggest that Nessie change his screen name since that would make the discussion more even handed (since people would not know that the power to censor hangs behind the harsh words).
in other words only liberal white-boys can post!
the black and the latina can fend for them selves!
same old story