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Drop the Charges Against Robert Norse and Robert Farcer!
Drop the Charges Against Robert Norse and Robert Farcer!
No Illusions in The Capitalist Courts!
Statement of the League for a Revolutionary Workers' Party (LRWP)
No Illusions in The Capitalist Courts!
Statement of the League for a Revolutionary Workers' Party (LRWP)
Drop the Charges Against Robert Norse and Robert Farcer!
No Illusions in The Capitalist Courts!
Statement of the League for a Revolutionary Workers' Party (LRWP)
Today Robert Norse and Robert Farcer go on trial for singing songs downtown Santa Cruz that informed of the high number of homeless deaths in Santa Cruz and the presence of police laws that ban sleep and covering-up with blankets, laws that have caused deaths.
The fact that they are going on trial for this is yet another violation of First Amendment rights to free speech by the Santa Cruz City Council. This same city government lost a lawsuit in Federal Court for arresting, beating, and jailing for three days activist Steven Argue, with Federal Judge Ware ruling that what had been done by the police was not only a violation of First Amendment rights, but the way the city was trying to defend itself showed that it is city policy to violate those rights.
Under this system, on extremely rare occasions, we can win victories from one or more of these representatives of the capitalist class and we can celebrate those rare victories that are usually due to public pressure and publicity. Steven Argue's case in Federal court was one of those victories. But we see that as a victory won by these activists who fought back by making it a civil case and by bringing publicity to the case. In addition, the fact that cops are very rarely prosecuted for their crimes in these cases, nor are they even fired, and more often promoted, we should understand that although a civil case was won, the root causes of that crime remained. And while the tax payers were made to pay for police crimes, similar crimes continued.
Despite past victories against the Santa Cruz City Council for free speech rights, this current case shows a continuation of the same attitudes and methods in the city council's attempts to silence criticism. This case should have never gone to trial and, instead, all responsible for this act, from the police to the government that gave the orders, should themselves go to trial for this basic violation of rights.
The LRWP also does not hail the fact that Norse and Farcer are getting their day in court. This should have been thrown out of court from the very first day. And while we support the legal efforts of Robert Norse and Robert Farcer in defending themselves, we have no illusions in the possibility of a fair trial in America's capitalist courts. It is public pressure on the courts that usually brings justice on those rare occasions that working class and poor people get it in America.
Prosecutors are government attorneys who represent the case of the capitalist state against the defendant in a criminal prosecution. It is they who actively sweep the misconduct of the police under the rug and don't prosecute cops for their crimes while at the same time prosecuting victims of police repression, violence, racism, or other police misconduct.
Judges are also representatives of the same capitalist government who carry out the same sorts of crimes as prosecutors, but they do it while hiding behind a facade of fake impartiality.
Cops are violent and cynical representatives of the capitalist system who, in a chain of command, follow the orders of the mayor or city council. The mayor or city council, in turn, are elected with the money of the capitalist and petty bourgeois classes. They are also elected on the basis of what kind of coverage they get in the capitalist owned press. These politicians have cops that are violent and repressive against the left, the poor, people of color, and the working class in general because that is the kind of cop that represents the interests of the classes that put them in office.
Defend Free Speech Rights! Drop the Charges Against Robert Norse and Robert Farcer! End the Anti-Homeless Laws of Santa Cruz!
Liberation News
https://lists.riseup.net/www/info/liberation_news
No Illusions in The Capitalist Courts!
Statement of the League for a Revolutionary Workers' Party (LRWP)
Today Robert Norse and Robert Farcer go on trial for singing songs downtown Santa Cruz that informed of the high number of homeless deaths in Santa Cruz and the presence of police laws that ban sleep and covering-up with blankets, laws that have caused deaths.
The fact that they are going on trial for this is yet another violation of First Amendment rights to free speech by the Santa Cruz City Council. This same city government lost a lawsuit in Federal Court for arresting, beating, and jailing for three days activist Steven Argue, with Federal Judge Ware ruling that what had been done by the police was not only a violation of First Amendment rights, but the way the city was trying to defend itself showed that it is city policy to violate those rights.
Under this system, on extremely rare occasions, we can win victories from one or more of these representatives of the capitalist class and we can celebrate those rare victories that are usually due to public pressure and publicity. Steven Argue's case in Federal court was one of those victories. But we see that as a victory won by these activists who fought back by making it a civil case and by bringing publicity to the case. In addition, the fact that cops are very rarely prosecuted for their crimes in these cases, nor are they even fired, and more often promoted, we should understand that although a civil case was won, the root causes of that crime remained. And while the tax payers were made to pay for police crimes, similar crimes continued.
Despite past victories against the Santa Cruz City Council for free speech rights, this current case shows a continuation of the same attitudes and methods in the city council's attempts to silence criticism. This case should have never gone to trial and, instead, all responsible for this act, from the police to the government that gave the orders, should themselves go to trial for this basic violation of rights.
The LRWP also does not hail the fact that Norse and Farcer are getting their day in court. This should have been thrown out of court from the very first day. And while we support the legal efforts of Robert Norse and Robert Farcer in defending themselves, we have no illusions in the possibility of a fair trial in America's capitalist courts. It is public pressure on the courts that usually brings justice on those rare occasions that working class and poor people get it in America.
Prosecutors are government attorneys who represent the case of the capitalist state against the defendant in a criminal prosecution. It is they who actively sweep the misconduct of the police under the rug and don't prosecute cops for their crimes while at the same time prosecuting victims of police repression, violence, racism, or other police misconduct.
Judges are also representatives of the same capitalist government who carry out the same sorts of crimes as prosecutors, but they do it while hiding behind a facade of fake impartiality.
Cops are violent and cynical representatives of the capitalist system who, in a chain of command, follow the orders of the mayor or city council. The mayor or city council, in turn, are elected with the money of the capitalist and petty bourgeois classes. They are also elected on the basis of what kind of coverage they get in the capitalist owned press. These politicians have cops that are violent and repressive against the left, the poor, people of color, and the working class in general because that is the kind of cop that represents the interests of the classes that put them in office.
Defend Free Speech Rights! Drop the Charges Against Robert Norse and Robert Farcer! End the Anti-Homeless Laws of Santa Cruz!
Liberation News
https://lists.riseup.net/www/info/liberation_news
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Mao is history, and so too should Robert be. Tired tactics, using those he pretends to champion to no benefit other than plumping his own ego.
He's like the general who sends the troops into battle for a just cause as the troops get slaughtered while the general stays in his tent and drinks champagne.
He's like the general who sends the troops into battle for a just cause as the troops get slaughtered while the general stays in his tent and drinks champagne.
Meh. Robert and Farcer (that's really his name?) should be tried for this crime. If they are found guilty, they should be led away and shot before sunset. This is fair.
wait, who are the League for a Revolutionary worker's Party?
I have heard of the RCP, the RCYB, Answer is connected to Worker's World Party. Britain has a Worker's Revolutionary party.
Here is something called League for the revolutionary party - devoted to authenticity in marxism.
http://lrp-cofi.org/
I have heard of the RCP, the RCYB, Answer is connected to Worker's World Party. Britain has a Worker's Revolutionary party.
Here is something called League for the revolutionary party - devoted to authenticity in marxism.
http://lrp-cofi.org/
Cleese: The only thing we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front.
Idle: And the People's Front of Judea. Splitters!
Cleese: We're the People's Front of Judea!
Idle: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
Cleese: People's Front!
Idle: Whatever happened to the Popular Front?
Cleese: (Points at Robert Norse), He's over there.
Splitter!
Idle: And the People's Front of Judea. Splitters!
Cleese: We're the People's Front of Judea!
Idle: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
Cleese: People's Front!
Idle: Whatever happened to the Popular Front?
Cleese: (Points at Robert Norse), He's over there.
Splitter!
Perhaps instead of trying to change the world we should all agree that Wal-Mart and oil spills are bad, join hands, and sing kumbaya. No need for disagreement! No need for a party or program! Clearly, in the struggle against capitalism we should only take-up the pet causes obvious enough in the mainstream media to even be taken-up by the most liberal wing of the Democrat Party. And in the end we are left with a party whose slogan is: "Expand the war in Afghanistan, Yes We Can!"
Joke:
How did the ruling class get American liberals to vote for Mussolini?
They ran him against Hitler and said he was the lesser of two evils.
As for cops:
How many Santa Cruz cops does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Five. Four to beat-up the janitor and one to screw in the bulb.
Joke:
How did the ruling class get American liberals to vote for Mussolini?
They ran him against Hitler and said he was the lesser of two evils.
As for cops:
How many Santa Cruz cops does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Five. Four to beat-up the janitor and one to screw in the bulb.
A ramble, I expose...It's regrettable the court can't be moved (meaning judge, and type of setting for justice) and it's like an auction now..... who hangs on for the best price- the complaintants or the defendants? In the traffic court setting? By a commissioner judge with no allowance of the defendants to call witnesses as in a court you read about in law books.
When there was nothing wrong Facer did in the first place just like Michelle- then he, dragged into the constitutionality of Free Speech without uttering a word! Because of prejiduce by Reilly and the City Attorney- who uses all the sources to waste $ as possible just to get his, and yet because I -keyboardist -left before a ticket was given to me that day- because I was polite to the police officer OR did what she required? then that was construed as a two way conversation not an affront to authority.
Don't see the winner of the auction of the prized right of public expression by time, place and manner, as gaining a dime of logic. Number of minutes this expression took place is the debated object- 45 minutes? or 4 hours as said the complaintant. Which real noise, or which phantom noise is being explored for content? the four hour repeated noise that supposedly happened, or the 45 minute political singing and playing and yelling by all sides that actually occured? Any justice or knowledge of how it works in THIS county, guess for yourself.
When there was nothing wrong Facer did in the first place just like Michelle- then he, dragged into the constitutionality of Free Speech without uttering a word! Because of prejiduce by Reilly and the City Attorney- who uses all the sources to waste $ as possible just to get his, and yet because I -keyboardist -left before a ticket was given to me that day- because I was polite to the police officer OR did what she required? then that was construed as a two way conversation not an affront to authority.
Don't see the winner of the auction of the prized right of public expression by time, place and manner, as gaining a dime of logic. Number of minutes this expression took place is the debated object- 45 minutes? or 4 hours as said the complaintant. Which real noise, or which phantom noise is being explored for content? the four hour repeated noise that supposedly happened, or the 45 minute political singing and playing and yelling by all sides that actually occured? Any justice or knowledge of how it works in THIS county, guess for yourself.
For more information:
http://coralrockmusic.com
No mention of the capitalist running dogs?
There is nothing wrong with our “rhetoric”, what you have is a political difference. Please express those without personal attacks on Robert Norse who is presently the victim of a government attack on his First Amendment right to free speech. Any principled member of the working class struggle will put any political differences they may have with Robert Norse second in order to back his free speech rights against government repression.
Neither Robert Norse nor the LRWP are Maoist. The LRWP says that the 1949 Chinese Revolution was a very big step forward from the U.S. backed capitalist dictatorship of Chiang Kai Sheck. It was a revolution that made giant strides forward for the workers and peasants of China with things like advances in women’s rights, the abolition of Chattel slavery and feudal slavery, and a DOUBLING of life expectancy during the time of Mao’s rule due to the socialist planned economy.
But the Chinese Revolution was ruled from the beginning by a Stalinist bureaucracy that copied Stalin’s system and methods. This included stifling workers’ democracy in China through repression, including the jailing of Trotskyists, the building of a privileged “communist” bureaucracy better off than the working class that depends on repression to maintain their privileges, and adherence to the Stalinist theory of “socialism in one country”, where the Stalinist bureaucracy sabotages the international workers’ movement in order to gain trade from other capitalist countries. This is opposed to the Trotskyist program of breaking out of isolation by building the international revolutionary movement.
An example of the Chinese Communist Party’s sabotage of the international workers’ movement was their position that the Indonesian Communist Party should support the bourgeois nationalist government of Indonesia rather than fight for proletarian power. This political and military disarmament of the Indonesian communist movement led to the U.S. backed slaughter of a million Indonesian communists and their supporters in 1965 by Indonesia’s capitalist government.
As opposed to the conservative and repressive Stalinist program of Mao, the LRWP adheres to legitimate Marxism (i.e. the revolutionary program of Trotskyism).
Neither Robert Norse nor the LRWP are Maoist. The LRWP says that the 1949 Chinese Revolution was a very big step forward from the U.S. backed capitalist dictatorship of Chiang Kai Sheck. It was a revolution that made giant strides forward for the workers and peasants of China with things like advances in women’s rights, the abolition of Chattel slavery and feudal slavery, and a DOUBLING of life expectancy during the time of Mao’s rule due to the socialist planned economy.
But the Chinese Revolution was ruled from the beginning by a Stalinist bureaucracy that copied Stalin’s system and methods. This included stifling workers’ democracy in China through repression, including the jailing of Trotskyists, the building of a privileged “communist” bureaucracy better off than the working class that depends on repression to maintain their privileges, and adherence to the Stalinist theory of “socialism in one country”, where the Stalinist bureaucracy sabotages the international workers’ movement in order to gain trade from other capitalist countries. This is opposed to the Trotskyist program of breaking out of isolation by building the international revolutionary movement.
An example of the Chinese Communist Party’s sabotage of the international workers’ movement was their position that the Indonesian Communist Party should support the bourgeois nationalist government of Indonesia rather than fight for proletarian power. This political and military disarmament of the Indonesian communist movement led to the U.S. backed slaughter of a million Indonesian communists and their supporters in 1965 by Indonesia’s capitalist government.
As opposed to the conservative and repressive Stalinist program of Mao, the LRWP adheres to legitimate Marxism (i.e. the revolutionary program of Trotskyism).
The LRWP is currently a small group in Santa Cruz.
Even if a crime was committed, which it was not, don't you think death by firing squad is a bit too harsh?
If the government gets away with this prosecution it sets a precedent where the government can get away with shutting down any protest they please, without warning, based purely on arbitrary and subjective sound criteria and based on whether they can find, or plant, a day sleeper anywhere in the vicinity.
As an observer in last Thursday's prosecution/persecution of Robert Norse and Robert Farcer at the County Court Building, I have to ask myself "just what was I in attendance of...A court of law”???
For the police to accept a citizen’s complaint of unreasonable or disturbing noise, and for the City of Santa Cruz to seriously entertain and proceed with the prosecution of those cited with no evidence or witnesses put forth by the complaining party does not speak well for this community.
For a Santa Cruz police office to pass by musicians/singers and find no reason to cite, but 5 minutes later cite them based on a citizen’s noise ordinance complaint…a citizen’s “say-so”, indicates a lack of descretion, integrity, and fair play on the part of the officer and reflects on those setting policy. This also does not speak well for this community.
Aside from being frivolous and a total waste of time, money, and resources, one thing in particular struck me as being odd on the part of the plaintiff Sean Reilly: When the music outside his window became intolerable/disturbing (to him), and after he turned on his air conditioner to act as a white-noise (sleep) generator in an attempt to minimize the outside music, he said he turned on his TV to a louder volume than that of the street music...in order to cover it up. Didn't that increase the noise factor in his room thus making it even more difficult to fall asleep??? Especially when most everything coming from TV these days is anything but tranquil or serene...Maybe not, but probably so.
In any event the whole trial reeks of a non-impartial court, and a police department and city council gone wild on a power trip. The present actions of those in charge - the police, courts, and City Council – in proceeding with this prosecution of Robert Norse and Robert Farcer reveal to me signs of very serious personality disorders bordering on, and in many ways including intolerance, arrogance, and child-like behavior…and not of mature, problem-solving, compassionate adults.
For the police to accept a citizen’s complaint of unreasonable or disturbing noise, and for the City of Santa Cruz to seriously entertain and proceed with the prosecution of those cited with no evidence or witnesses put forth by the complaining party does not speak well for this community.
For a Santa Cruz police office to pass by musicians/singers and find no reason to cite, but 5 minutes later cite them based on a citizen’s noise ordinance complaint…a citizen’s “say-so”, indicates a lack of descretion, integrity, and fair play on the part of the officer and reflects on those setting policy. This also does not speak well for this community.
Aside from being frivolous and a total waste of time, money, and resources, one thing in particular struck me as being odd on the part of the plaintiff Sean Reilly: When the music outside his window became intolerable/disturbing (to him), and after he turned on his air conditioner to act as a white-noise (sleep) generator in an attempt to minimize the outside music, he said he turned on his TV to a louder volume than that of the street music...in order to cover it up. Didn't that increase the noise factor in his room thus making it even more difficult to fall asleep??? Especially when most everything coming from TV these days is anything but tranquil or serene...Maybe not, but probably so.
In any event the whole trial reeks of a non-impartial court, and a police department and city council gone wild on a power trip. The present actions of those in charge - the police, courts, and City Council – in proceeding with this prosecution of Robert Norse and Robert Farcer reveal to me signs of very serious personality disorders bordering on, and in many ways including intolerance, arrogance, and child-like behavior…and not of mature, problem-solving, compassionate adults.
Lame laws, biased cops, clueless judges, and a malicious whiner. Costing the taxpayers money just so Seanee can get beauty sleep in the middle of the day. This only strengthens Norse's message about Santa Cruz.
Connecticut, what is "frivolous and a total waste of time, money, and resources" is Robert Norse. Sean Riley at least has a job. All Robert does is parade up and down Pacific Avenue in his underwear playing shock and awe with peoples' aesthetic sensibilities, just because he can.
And Steve Argue, as we've discussed before, I think capital punishment is an appropriate sentence for Robert Norse, anytime he commits a crime. I don't know Robert Farter, but he must share the same fate. This is just.
Allah-u-Akbar!!
And Steve Argue, as we've discussed before, I think capital punishment is an appropriate sentence for Robert Norse, anytime he commits a crime. I don't know Robert Farter, but he must share the same fate. This is just.
Allah-u-Akbar!!
Robert does not walk around in his underwear. He does, however, sometimes wear a robe to bring attention to the fact that it is illegal for the homeless to sleep at night in Santa Cruz.
And this may look a little like your meeting with the prosecuting city attorneys as you request Robert be shot for his "crimes":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw
And this may look a little like your meeting with the prosecuting city attorneys as you request Robert be shot for his "crimes":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw
LOL. Nice clip there, Argue. I'm glad you find Robert Norse funny also. I still feel that rather than fool around with aquatic animals, hoping that one can be finally tricked into tangling with him, thereby inviting a lifetime of lawsuits and "activism" aimed at the poor creature, Robert would be best submitted to the tender mercies of a crack firing squad. I'm sure that with due consideration, you'll concur. Best wishes.
"he said he turned on his TV to a louder volume than that of the street music...in order to cover it up. Didn't that increase the noise factor in his room thus making it even more difficult to fall asleep???"
Good point by Connecticut. Also the other remarks are well observed in which I agree and the better statement than mine in my earlier entry.
And this has dragged on too long-since it happened in January- and is why I was disinclined to attend to latest venture, among other reasons. Will there be more than a romper room court, AKA kangaroo, Captain Kangaroo maybe- court?
Also Robert's last name is spelled FACER.
Good point by Connecticut. Also the other remarks are well observed in which I agree and the better statement than mine in my earlier entry.
And this has dragged on too long-since it happened in January- and is why I was disinclined to attend to latest venture, among other reasons. Will there be more than a romper room court, AKA kangaroo, Captain Kangaroo maybe- court?
Also Robert's last name is spelled FACER.
Steve Argue says "If the government gets away with this prosecution it sets a precedent where the government can get away with shutting down any protest they please, without warning, based purely on arbitrary and subjective sound criteria and based on whether they can find, or plant, a day sleeper anywhere in the vicinity.".
To which I reply: Exaggerated drama.
For starters, none of the accounts I've read of this incident would indicate that the cops had to find, or "plant" a complaintant in the vicinity. All accounts seem consistent; the singers were bothering a resident who was trying to sleep. You're post is paranoid or a huge leap of supposition.
For closers, "If they get away with this"? Get away with prosecuting a complaint? "It sets a precedent where they can shut down any protest they want"? Really? It's that extreme? We're about to enter a police state because of this?
By your logic, shouldn't we also then be living in fear of constant anarchy because there have been several ongoing protests in the past year or so that haven't been instantly shut down. (NY eve parade, drum circle, sleep protest, to name buta few.).
Obviously, by your logic, if they didn't smack those down instantly, then a precedent has been set for uncontrollable protest on any and all fronts.
Tongue firmly in cheek; keep it real.
To which I reply: Exaggerated drama.
For starters, none of the accounts I've read of this incident would indicate that the cops had to find, or "plant" a complaintant in the vicinity. All accounts seem consistent; the singers were bothering a resident who was trying to sleep. You're post is paranoid or a huge leap of supposition.
For closers, "If they get away with this"? Get away with prosecuting a complaint? "It sets a precedent where they can shut down any protest they want"? Really? It's that extreme? We're about to enter a police state because of this?
By your logic, shouldn't we also then be living in fear of constant anarchy because there have been several ongoing protests in the past year or so that haven't been instantly shut down. (NY eve parade, drum circle, sleep protest, to name buta few.).
Obviously, by your logic, if they didn't smack those down instantly, then a precedent has been set for uncontrollable protest on any and all fronts.
Tongue firmly in cheek; keep it real.
"that haven't been instantly shut down. (NY eve parade, drum circle, sleep protest, to name buta few.). "
get a clue. all those you mention have received tickets from an out
of control local government.
hats off to the brave and true patriots that join these protests and
stand up for our rights.
get a clue. all those you mention have received tickets from an out
of control local government.
hats off to the brave and true patriots that join these protests and
stand up for our rights.
Thanks for reinforcing my point: a ticket is hardly the same as shutting down all protests.....and a guy banging a garbage can at the Farmers market is hardly a brave patriot.
Seriously, let's keep it in perspective. By lionizing these trivial matters, you make them somewhat comical.
Seriously, let's keep it in perspective. By lionizing these trivial matters, you make them somewhat comical.
that there is no way that we should have a constitutional convention. If the constitution we have now were put to a popular vote, it would lose in a landslide.
Steve Argue, I've also never understood why Robert thinks a bathrobe is symbolic of sleep deprivation. I mean, if the point is that people can't sleep, it seems like he'd use props like an alarm clock or bright lights, a loud stereo or a recording of Becky Johnson singing "Downtown", by Petula Clark. If on the other hand, he wants to emphasize how nice it is to sleep, then a Sealy Posturepedic or a giant down pillow worn as headgear might make more sense.
A bathrobe just seems to imply that more people in Santa Cruz should take bathing more seriously. He may be right, but I wish he'd stop mixing up his symbolic gestures. It's giving me a headache.
Ya know?
A bathrobe just seems to imply that more people in Santa Cruz should take bathing more seriously. He may be right, but I wish he'd stop mixing up his symbolic gestures. It's giving me a headache.
Ya know?
I walked past PeaceCamp 2010 this afternoon and all that was left of it was one lonely lady at the library. She had a pink sign attached to her suitcase that said "No Sleep, No Peace".
She was fast asleep :-)
She was fast asleep :-)
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