Don't think Israel and its supporters have a genocidal program? just look at their signs

This is a crime that harkens back to medieval torture and piracy of the 17th century, not the 21st century! Crimes are crimes no matter who commits them. Trying to use the crimes of the capitalist-criminal regime in China(which is supported by the rulers of the U.S.) to block out the very real horror of what just took place in international waters only serves to try to cover modern day pirates and criminals. The people who try to justify the slow genocide against the Palestinian people have no right to use the crimes of the Holocaust committed by the German imperialists as a defense.

It is also important to note a very important statement in reference to what the state of Israel represents. "After the Holocaust, the worst thing that happened to the Jewish people is the state of Israel" - Bob Avakian, Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA. (http://www.revcom.us) So check out this amazing revolutionary leader and communist and engage with what he has to say. Things don't have to be this way- revolution is possible and necessary.

END ALL AID TO ISRAELI NOW!!!!!! They have had decades to create a peaceful, functional society and it is obvious they cannot. STOP THROWING GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD!!!!!!!!

I support Israel, NOT the destruction of Gaza. Israel was within its rights to stop those ships in international waters. They had all provacatively announced their intent to was to "break the blockade of Gaza" which is an act of war. Hamas and Israel are currently in a state of war. Hamas has announced repeatedly that their intent is to "redeem Palestine" and to drive out the infidels (Jews). Israel has suffered 10,000 rocket attacks since its pullout in 2005 (so much for the peace dividend that those self-same "peace" activists claimed would happen!

Every other "Free Gaza" ship had been stopped and diverted. They all expected this to happen. But the TURKISH ship, loaded with IHH members, lay in wait for the soldiers, armed with metal rods, clubs, broken glass, percussion grenades, etc. and immediately attacked the soldiers when they landed on the deck with murderous intensity.

The IDF erred in not expecting violent resistance from a bunch of "peace" activists. Next time they will be much more heavily armed. You can be sure.

The soldiers only began to fire their pistols when they justifiably feared for their lives. Two IDF soldiers are in critical condition. A total of seven were injured. The claim that Israel viciously attacked a peaceful group of humanitarians is just bunk propaganda. THe IHH is a Turkish terrorist organization which supports global jihad.

I blame Paul Larudee, Kathy Sheetz, and Greta Berlin entirely for these nine deaths. THEY have blood on their hands!

STFU B Johnson: Israel attacked first in international waters. And the blockade of Gaza is illegal.

To "Becky" there is nothing wrong with ethnic cleansing and the denial of a person's human and politcal rights on ethnic, religious and racial grounds.

The Zionist state is the antithesis of the ethical and moral values of Judaism.

As a proud anti-racist non zionist Jew, I am working for a single secular all inclusive democratic state for all the families of Palestine-Israel (irregardless of race, religion, ethnicity, sex, etc).

The blood of all those injured or killed fall squarely on the heads of racists such as Becky and those of her ilk.

I know how indybay folks can't stand to hear a contrary word, but you are incorrect when you say Israel's blockade of Gaza is illegal. Gaza and Israel are in a state of war. Hamas in Gaza has stated its intent is to "redeem Palestine" and to drive out the "infidels" (Jews). 10,000 rockets have been fired at Israeli civilians since 2005. Israeli soldiers have been kidnapped and attempts have been made to kidnap other soldiers. Hamas has launched many suicide bombing attacks as well. Hamas receives funding and logistic support from Iran, another hostile entity according to the US state department.

Why our local "peace" activists would support HAMAS over Israel is beyond me! Hamas is against womens rights, against homosexuality, and against any other religion besides Islam. they are filled with Jew-hatred as well. Not a nice bunch to be stumping for.

It was also legal to intercept the ships in international waters as they had reason to believe the ships intended to breach Israel's blockade. Therefore their actions were pre-emptive and legal. Had the ships just been in international waters on their way to their various ports for ordinary commerce, the Israel's interception would have been illegal.

Context is everything.

ZIONISM IS NOT JUDAISM WRITES: "As a proud anti-racist non zionist Jew, I am working for a single secular all inclusive democratic state for all the families of Palestine-Israel (irregardless of race, religion, ethnicity, sex, etc). "

BECKY: Kind of like Israel is today!! 20% Arab/Muslim, with Christians, Druze, Bedoins, and people of all colors from all countries of the world---each with the same human and civil rights. How UNLIKE Jordan or Saudia Arabia where, by law, a Jew may not own land. THAT is ethnic cleansing that you so-called "peace" activists choose to ignore.

Hey Becky:

1) Israeli storm troopers attacked the ship in international waters (which is a crime under international law).

2) Amnesty International’s current Annual Human Rights Report states that Israeli’s siege on Gaza has “deepened the ongoing humanitarian crisis. Mass unemployment, extreme poverty, food insecurity and food price rises caused by shortages left four out of five Gazans dependent on humanitarian aid. The scope of the blockade and statements made by Israeli officials about its purpose showed that it was being imposed as a form of collective punishment of Gazans, a flagrant violation of international law.” (Amnesty International Report 2010—Israel and the Occupied Territories)

3) Look at the sign(s) carried by your fellow supporters of Israel. You can find similar sentiments expressed by high level political leaders in Israel. Even if you support Israel -- which was created by the forced dispossession of Palestinian people, the annexation and building of settlements (again in violation of international law), and which plays the role as a base of US military/political strategy in the middle east (which has nothing to do with promoting democracy and everything to do with its imperialist interests) -- you need to oppose the blatant war crimes being carried out by Israel or be complicit in these crimes.

Israel was just protecting themselves. At least most of mainstream media recognize this!

Becky Zionazi is full of it. View the current state of affairs in Palestine-Israel as a mixture of the old Jim Crow South and Apartheid South Africa, with element of its own distinct pseudo theocratic new age world view thrown in.

In 1947/1948 approximately 700,000-800,000 indigenous people of Palestine-Israel were ethnically cleansed from their homes. That event is known as the Nakba. Since that time they have been prevented from returning to their homes. Besides being racist and wrong, it is a violation of international law.

The existing zionist state claims to be a democracy. It is not. What sort of democracy disenfranchizes a large percentage of its citizens and inhabitants merely because they are of different religion or ethnic background? What sort of democracy gives prefential treatement to one group of people over another because of religious and ethic litmus tests?

Becky, to repeat, YOU ARE FULL OF IT.

As racist Jim Crow ended and racist Aparteid ended, so will racist Zionismend.

It was jolly nice of those Zionists who support Israel's most recent act of piracy to come out and present themselves for everyone to yell at

FELIX WRITES: "1) Israeli storm troopers attacked the ship in international waters (which is a crime under international law).

BECKY: No it wasn't. It was a pre-emptive act against a provocation and an attempt to violates Israel's protective blockade and serve HAMAS interests (not food, but PR). Hamas is a hostile party to Israel. The IDF was protecting Israel from Hamas and its supporters. the law involved, BTW is the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994

PART III - BASIC RULES AND TARGET DISCRIMINATION
SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT
Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

FELIX WRITES: "2) Amnesty International’s current Annual Human Rights Report states that Israeli’s siege on Gaza has “deepened the ongoing humanitarian crisis. Mass unemployment, extreme poverty, food insecurity and food price rises caused by shortages left four out of five Gazans dependent on humanitarian aid. The scope of the blockade and statements made by Israeli officials about its purpose showed that it was being imposed as a form of collective punishment of Gazans, a flagrant violation of international law.” (Amnesty International Report 2010—Israel and the Occupied Territories)"

BECKY: There is no starvation in Gaza. What unemployment exists falls on the decisions made by leaders in the Palestinian Authority and in Gaza under Hamas which have utterly failed to build industry and agriculture to provide those kinds of jobs. why not? Because they chose to invest in war, terrorism, suicide bombing attacks, rockets, kidnappings and ransoms, sniper attacks, and a constant stream of Jew hatred and belligerism towards Israel. Blame Palestinians for their poverty. Palestinians never had it so good as when they TRULY lived under Israeli control (1967 - 1994). Things have slipped considerably since self-rule and the Oslo Accords. Try reading some data tables sometime on things like income per capita.

As for claims of "extreme poverty". You've been had. If you want to find starvation, head to the Sudan. Look at this Palestinian magazine from last August. It's in Arabic so you can't read it unless you can read Arabic. But just LOOK at the photos!!

http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-55720.html

Remember. This isn't some "Zionist" publication. It's their own press.

FELIX WRITES: "3) Look at the sign(s) carried by your fellow supporters of Israel. You can find similar sentiments expressed by high level political leaders in Israel. Even if you support Israel -- which was created by the forced dispossession of Palestinian people, the annexation and building of settlements (again in violation of international law), and which plays the role as a base of US military/political strategy in the middle east (which has nothing to do with promoting democracy and everything to do with its imperialist interests) -- you need to oppose the blatant war crimes being carried out by Israel or be complicit in these crimes."

BECKY: I don't agree with the ONE, LONE SIGN that your reporters seized on a published here. It doesn't typify the group of Israel supporters who know that the SHIP OF FOOLS was just sent to be a propaganda ploy, with the express purpose of opening up those sea lanes so the real terrorists can get their weapons in. Remember the Karine A?

see: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/paship.html

Until Hamas agrees to live in peace with Israel, and when hostilities cease, both the naval blockade and land blockade can be ended. And not a day sooner.

BTW -- Israel was NOT created by "forced dispossession of the Palestinian people." That is completely false. Israel in its declaration of independence, invited all Arabs (thats what they were called in those days) to join in building a new nation. 10% of the Arab population stayed, were not harmed, and now have full Israeli citizenship, own property, and have every right of every other Israeli, be they Muslim , Kurdish, Christian, Druze, Bedoin, Jewish, or secular.

see: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Dec_of_Indep.html

"WE APPEAL — in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months — to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions." Text passed May 14, 1948

If it is a war, there are UN rules regarding treatment of civilian populations during a war, and occupation of a state one is at war with. Since Gaza also isn't a state, despite the fact they're at war with it (civil war with one ethnically defined county within the state?), there are even more UN rules regarding treatment of the people who they are essentially in custody of, and must provide protection for. Since it is all one big country, they essentially should be using a police force rather than an army.
What a joke the UN is.

ZIONAZISM IS NOT JUDAISM WRITES: "In 1947/1948 approximately 700,000-800,000 indigenous people of Palestine-Israel were ethnically cleansed from their homes. That event is known as the Nakba. Since that time they have been prevented from returning to their homes. Besides being racist and wrong, it is a violation of international law."

BECKY: Jews are indigenous to Israel, The West Bank (called Judea and Samaria for millenium), and Gaza----all lands given to the Jewish people by God, as written in the Jewish Bible, the Christian Bible, and in the Koran. According to UNRWA, a "Palestinian" was any Arab who had resided in pre-Israel Palestine for at least TWO YEARS. Two years hardly makes a population "indigenous."

A whole agency was set up inside Israel to deal with property left behind and with people who left and wanted to come back. That agency repatriated about 170,000 Palestinians over the years until it was disbanded in 1993 by the Oslo Accords.

Oh, and the land they fled belonged to ...wait for it....BRITAIN!!

ZIONAZISM IS NOT JUDAISM WRITES: "The existing zionist state claims to be a democracy. It is not. What sort of democracy disenfranchizes a large percentage of its citizens and inhabitants merely because they are of different religion or ethnic background?"


BECKY: They don't. One citizen. One vote. Whether Jewish, or Muslim, or Palestinian in ethnicity. If they are an Israeli citizen, they all have equal rights according to Israeli law and practices. The Palestinians on the W. Bank and in Gaza are under the PA control: a civil authority that governs all civil and criminal matters except borders, airspace, and water ways.
Israel does that===according to the terms of the Oslo Accords signed by President Yassir Arafat. Who is not getting full rights?

ZIONAZISM IS NOT JUDAISM WRITES: " What sort of democracy gives prefential treatement to one group of people over another because of religious and ethic litmus tests?

BECKY: I think you're a bit mixed up. Israel is only a "Jewish" state in the sense that they have declared themselves to be the national homeland for any Jew living anywhere in the world. This doesn't BAR non-Jewish people from living in Israel or even becoming citizens.

Its really an affirmative action program for Jews. It exists because of international anti-semitism.

BECKY: There is no starvation in Gaza... [read the rest above].

WRONG!!! Why not believe a report by Amnesty International (quoted in my first comment) who is certainly not a supporter of Hamas? Why do you feel that you have to rely on a web page in Arabic that you can't even read?? The mere picture of some consumer goods and food stuffs doesn't really tell you anything. What was the price and can people afford it? Are these available over a long period or was it just for a brief period. In Iraq where it is well documented that 500,000 children tied because of US sanctions I heard that there was food available but few could afford it.

BECKY: No it wasn't [a war crime]. It was a pre-emptive act against a provocation and an attempt to violates Israel's protective blockade and serve HAMAS interests (not food, but PR).

WRONG again. The criteria listed in your post for when an occupation of a ship is justified are all aimed at explicitly military reasons: "carrying contraband," "engage in belligerent acts" "act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces," "assist the enemy s intelligence system" "sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft" or "otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy's military action."

You say the purpose of the international flotilla was not to supply humanitarian aid, despite the fact that this was clearly the case. Instead you say it was PR for Hamas. But even under your description of the purpose of the convoy (public relations for Hamas) it is clear from the international law that YOU cited that this was not justified.

BECKY: Israel was NOT created by "forced dispossession of the Palestinian people."

WRONG!

Quotes from leaders of the Settlement movement on the West Bank. These are from the book Lords of the Land: the War Over Israel’s Settlements in the Occupied Territories, 1967-2007 (New York, Nation Books, 2007) authored by Professor Idith Zertal and Akiva Eldar, the chief political columnist and editorial writer for the Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz. As supporters of the state of Israel, their exposure cannot be dismissed as being motivated by anti-Israel bias:

Rabbi Yitzhak Shilat of the large settlement of Maaleh Adumin declared that “anything we do as a result of distress and anger, even killing, is good, is acceptable and will help. Killing is just a matter for the Kingdom.” (1987)

A settler in 1988 invoked a comparison to the conquest of Indian land by U.S. settlers: “Everyone can do whatever he wants. It’s a different planet. You are the law...they used to say ‘the Wild West’ as a joke. Today, this is no longer a joke. We go out at night, cover the license plates, go into the nearby Arab village and the fun begins.” (pp. 105-106)

for a review of Lord of the Land see: http://revcom.us/a/111/book-review-en.html

David Ben Gurion (1937): "We have to face this new reality with all its severity and distinctness. Such a demographic balance questions our ability to maintain Jewish sovereignty." "They can either be mass arrested or expelled; it is better to expel them."

Or check out the book "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Israeli historian and senior lecturer at Haifa University Ilan Pappe (One World Publisher, Oxford, 2006):

Here is a quote from Pappe's book on Israel's military plans at the time of Israel's founding:

Then Plan Dalet (or Plan D) was drawn up, the blueprint for the systematic and total expulsion of Palestinians from their homeland. Plan D described operations in the following way: "destroying villages (by setting fire to them, by blowing them up, and by planting mines in their debris) and especially those population centres which are difficult to control in a constant manner; or by mounting combined control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the villages; conducting a search inside them. In case of resistance, the armed forces must be wiped out and the population expelled outside the borders of the state."

Here's another quote from Pappe's book describing the massacre at Deir Yassin:

"Fahim Zaydan, who was twelve years old at the time, recalled how he saw his family murdered in front of his eyes: ‘They took us out one after the other; shot an old man and when one of his daughters cried, she was shot too. Then they called my brother Muhammad, and shot him in front of us, and when my mother yelled, bending over him—carrying my little sister Hudra in her hands, still breastfeeding her—they shot her too.’

"Zaydan himself was shot, too, while standing in a row of children the Jewish soldiers had lined up against a wall, which they had then sprayed with bullets ‘just for the fun of it’, before they left. He was lucky to survive his wounds."

Becky, you may not like the sentiment expressed in the sign (which was the largest one at the demonstration was held up the whole time and which, as you can see from the photo the speakers chose to stand next to when speaking). I hope you have enough honesty and intellectual integrity to look at the facts and question some of what you have been told. The reality is that Israeli policy is a genocidal policy, as I think the above quotes (from non-Palestinian sources) reveal.

No it was a concerted policy of ethnic cleansing on the part of the racist zionazis. There is more than enough documentation to show that. The fact that to this day the zionazis still prevent the families ethnically cleansed to return to their homes shows Becky's dishonesty and hypocrisy.

Becky is not only an unmitigated racist and biogt, she is an unprincipled liar and hypocrite.

Becky, honesty shows character. If there is any hope for you it is recognizing that.

"They don't. One citizen. One vote. Whether Jewish, or Muslim, or Palestinian in ethnicity."
------------
This isn't true Becky. Only people in the 1967 border can vote (and there are some ethnic based rules inside Israel that you're not acknowledging). In the West Bank, only jewish people in settlements are able to vote in Israeli elections, and christian and muslim palestinians are not. Yet, those noncitizens aren't given their own state so they are disenfranchised. If Gaza was a state, they'd be able to issue visas and allow students and others to travel to europe to attend school on scholarship or visit relatives, but Israel blocks them, so it's not a state. Clearly, it is the intention of the Israeli government to eventually create one large state in area promised to them in the old Testament text (to the Jordan river, or at least most of that disputed space), and right not it essentially is one big state, with different rules for different counties..

Somehow I lucked out and google toolbar or something was in my web browser and I was able to translate the page Becky was referring to. Sure there are some pictures of very nice looking, well stocked shops preparing for Ramadan. But as one other poster suggested, just because the food is there doesn't mean the price is affordable. That stuff could have been smuggled through the tunnels before the Egyptian border had that metal fence burried 50 ft down. Show us some of the same pictures from August of this year and see if they still look the same. Of course now that Egypt has temporarily opened its border maybe this won't be as big a concern, at least for awhile.

Also it is interesting that Becky expects Hamas to run a command economy like the Soviet Union and feed all of its people from govt funds. I'm suprised that you have such a Stalinist sentiment Becky. Then again, some Israeli's are going to the govt trough for their handouts, so why not let the Palestinians get their fair share? Whatever.

On the left side of the page there are links to pictures of protesters and to bloodied victims of the Gaza massacre. There is only one child screaming at the Israelis (the caption implies more) but that's hardly a big deal.

A bigger deal is that the few interviews that I was able to see on web tv of the people who were on the boat where people got shot seemed to imply that the Israelis started shooting before they landed on the boat (the person interviewed was saying that bullets had penetrated the ceiling of the cabin). Shove that statement into your sawmill Becky. I can easily imagine the reaction of stick weilding activists if they were fired upon first. Of course all it takes to make it look bad is to cut the sound and then start the film at the point where the activists are pushing back. Let's wait until all the activists can be interviewed before jumping to the conclusions supported by the Israeli press.

I want to donate half my next paycheck to the next round of nonviolent flotillas headed to break the blockade. Where should i send it? thanks.

The Arab people of Palestine have been at the receiving end of Zionist aggression for 100 years. Following Israel-style logic, but with a lot more justification, they have the right to defend themselves by any means they choose, including by attacking any ships or planes that might be bringing military material to the Zionist entity, as well as any persons and organizations in other countries that organize and finance the shipment of such material.

Of course, when the victims of colonialism adopt the methods of the colonizers, they are labelled "terrorists".

It is truly shameful that those zioracist collaborators of Adolf Hitler attempt to defile Judaism by using it as a pretext and cover for their crimes. How sleazy can one get? They are the lowest of the low.

From a Press TV interview http://www.livestation.com/channels/52-press_tv_english

with one of the activists on board the flotilla it now appears that the following is the basic sequence of events:

The Israelis fired stun grenades and tear gas onto the ships and then attempted to board the ships from speed boats. They were repelled by water cannons, so they took to landing on the ships from helecopters.

The Isrealis did have their guns taken away from them by activists who separated the guns and the ammo to show the evidence later that the Israelis were carrying live ammo, not just rubber bullets.

About this time the attack by the Israelis proved to be too intense and the activists raised the white flag in surrender.

Some time later the first activist was killed by Israeli live fire. Several more died later. Why this happened is still not clear.

That is all that I know for now.