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Local Print Shop Censors Zines
Alphagraphics, local print shop objects to content of zines made by prisoners and refuses to copy them
I am a local zine publisher and run several different distros, mainly so prisoners can have their voices heard and share their artwork, no matter if their views are "objectionable" or "politically incorrect." With indepent bookstores and small presses going under left and right, alternative diy print media must remain vital, (and here I am strictly speaking of print, not the web, as prisoners have no internet access and zines and letters may be their only form of communication). I also make a point to support local businesses instead of corporate stores such as Kinko's who care nothing about their customers, since usually they cannot even be bothered to come to the counter.
Since AlphaGraphics print shop opened in my neighbor a few years ago, I have always given them my business. The owner, Rob, was friendly and accomodating and gave me a good rate. I recently left some of my publications there to be copied, at least a hundred dollars worth of work. When I called to inquire about them, Rob informed me that one of the workers "objected to the content," and that they would not be able to perform the job. Two of the booklets were handwritten, text mainly, with a few pictures of landscapes. The other three were anarchist based comic books, very political. All these publications were produced by prisoners. I am the sole distributor of them. When I returned to pick up the unfinished work, I explained to Rob that I do this solely out of my own pocket and make no profit, nor do I censor the voices of prisoners. He made no attempt to retain my business or make any excuses for their actions. So much for loyalty to customers, not to mention free speech! So sadly, I must let others know if they want to print underground publications in Santa Cruz, do it elsewhere. Thank you for your time,
Christopher Robin
I Press On! Prisoner Zine Distro
Since AlphaGraphics print shop opened in my neighbor a few years ago, I have always given them my business. The owner, Rob, was friendly and accomodating and gave me a good rate. I recently left some of my publications there to be copied, at least a hundred dollars worth of work. When I called to inquire about them, Rob informed me that one of the workers "objected to the content," and that they would not be able to perform the job. Two of the booklets were handwritten, text mainly, with a few pictures of landscapes. The other three were anarchist based comic books, very political. All these publications were produced by prisoners. I am the sole distributor of them. When I returned to pick up the unfinished work, I explained to Rob that I do this solely out of my own pocket and make no profit, nor do I censor the voices of prisoners. He made no attempt to retain my business or make any excuses for their actions. So much for loyalty to customers, not to mention free speech! So sadly, I must let others know if they want to print underground publications in Santa Cruz, do it elsewhere. Thank you for your time,
Christopher Robin
I Press On! Prisoner Zine Distro
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Thanks for the heads-up. Keep letting people know, and if I may offer a suggestion? Request to the folks that you tell about what happened to call up the business and tell them that in no uncertain terms will they do business with a place that disrespects free speech in this manner. It's not as if you were in printing a neo-nazi zine; as such, the assertion that an employee objected to the content (if that is even true) isn't ethically valid. It's the bosses' responsibility to let the worker do other jobs if they object, not to trample on your free speech rights as a result.
Also, ask them if you can do the job on the self-serve machines; I'm not sure if it's a violation of your rights if they refuse (the business owner has rights as well, and business rights, well, you get the drill), but if they refuse, it at least makes it clear that it isn't about a fellow worker, but the boss.
Also, ask them if you can do the job on the self-serve machines; I'm not sure if it's a violation of your rights if they refuse (the business owner has rights as well, and business rights, well, you get the drill), but if they refuse, it at least makes it clear that it isn't about a fellow worker, but the boss.
I've always thought that one person's rights stopped where another's started, and vice versa. Seems to me you want to force these people to reproduce messages they disagree with. Where is their right to free speech?
"Where is their right to free speech?"
So suppressing free speech is a free speech right? OK, pigs can fly. Wow, who knew.
So suppressing free speech is a free speech right? OK, pigs can fly. Wow, who knew.
Declining to agree with someone, say you and I disagreeing, is not the same as one of us suppressing the others right to free speech.
On the other hand, forcing someone to do something they disagree with, pretty much is suppressing their free speech.
On the other hand, forcing someone to do something they disagree with, pretty much is suppressing their free speech.
What is wrong with neo-nazi zines? Are you suppressing my right to free speech too?
"forcing someone to do something they disagree with, pretty much is suppressing their free speech."
Who said anything about forcing them? Both parties have a right here; as was inferred in what originally posted, two possible solutions are for the employer to allow the worker (if in fact it is the worker and not the boss in this case) to work on something else, or alternately, for the employer to allow access to the public copiers. Both parties get a version of what they want, win-win, life goes on. I also think that the balance of power between the business owner and the original poster is not equal in this situation - someone who runs an Alpha Graphics is definitely not the head of AIG, but still.
Where the anarchism comes into play here is organizing at a grass-roots level to find a solution, as opposed to turning to the state for one. That is what the reply I posted was driving at -- it's completely in keeping with the history and practice of anarchism as both an ideology and a practice. Learn what anarchism actually is before you infer that I don't know what it's about.
Who said anything about forcing them? Both parties have a right here; as was inferred in what originally posted, two possible solutions are for the employer to allow the worker (if in fact it is the worker and not the boss in this case) to work on something else, or alternately, for the employer to allow access to the public copiers. Both parties get a version of what they want, win-win, life goes on. I also think that the balance of power between the business owner and the original poster is not equal in this situation - someone who runs an Alpha Graphics is definitely not the head of AIG, but still.
Where the anarchism comes into play here is organizing at a grass-roots level to find a solution, as opposed to turning to the state for one. That is what the reply I posted was driving at -- it's completely in keeping with the history and practice of anarchism as both an ideology and a practice. Learn what anarchism actually is before you infer that I don't know what it's about.
"What is wrong with neo-nazi zines? Are you suppressing my right to free speech too?"
Dude, whatever, that's why I referred to it in ethical terms - and before you go painting his zine as offensive as a neo-nazi one, chill your effing jets, 'cause you haven't even read it. Nice try, but epic fail, son - epic. fail. You seriously need to go back to troll school.
Dude, whatever, that's why I referred to it in ethical terms - and before you go painting his zine as offensive as a neo-nazi one, chill your effing jets, 'cause you haven't even read it. Nice try, but epic fail, son - epic. fail. You seriously need to go back to troll school.
I see your point about the owner having the option to re-assign the worker. But perhaps the owner agrees with the worker about objectionable content. Maybe he disagrees, but values the good will of supporting a valuable worker, even if as owner he has more "power". Either of those things may be worth more to the print shop than the OP's business. In fact, he has demonstrated what is more important. Yet the OP seems to suggest that the shop must do the work or his rights have been suppressed. I think the OP just needs to take his $100 bucks and buy a cheap printer or find another print shop.
"In fact, he has demonstrated what is more important."
True, that. IMO, the owner could at least have expressed his opinions as to why he was asking him to take his business elsewhere, but not responding is within his rights, obviously (rude though it may be).
"Yet the OP seems to suggest that the shop must do the work or his rights have been suppressed. I think the OP just needs to take his $100 bucks and buy a cheap printer or find another print shop."
What I got from the OP was that they were passing on the info for others, including describing some of the details of what happened, more than focusing on their rights. I presume they've moved onto another shop, and onto other things; but they can speak to that better than I can.
True, that. IMO, the owner could at least have expressed his opinions as to why he was asking him to take his business elsewhere, but not responding is within his rights, obviously (rude though it may be).
"Yet the OP seems to suggest that the shop must do the work or his rights have been suppressed. I think the OP just needs to take his $100 bucks and buy a cheap printer or find another print shop."
What I got from the OP was that they were passing on the info for others, including describing some of the details of what happened, more than focusing on their rights. I presume they've moved onto another shop, and onto other things; but they can speak to that better than I can.
What I am basically doing is passing on info to other local publishers about this shop. True, it may be within his right to refuse my work, but some may not want to do business there. The titles of the zines were: Anti Filth, Claustrophobic & Nausea, they are classic old school punk zines made by kids, squatters and glue sniffers, not neo-nazi, not one bit.
I've invited Christopher to call in between 7 and 8 on Free Radio Santa Cruz (101.1 FM, http://www.freakradio.org) to discuss what happened, perhaps to answer questions. To join the conversation call in at 469-3119. Between 6 and 7, attorneys will be discussing the latest attack on the homeless via Injunction in downtown Santa Cruz (see http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/03/24/18581777.php).
The owner or employee may have been a victim of violent crime or maybe a loved one was murdered......then someone walks into the shop wanting to publish convicted criminal poetry. I'd be offended, and ask that `anarchist' to take his business elsewhere.
What's up with wanting to enable prisoners.....they are being punished.
What's up with wanting to enable prisoners.....they are being punished.
Christopher, I'm curious about the content of these zines. You mentioned in your original post that the booklets contained "pictures of landscapes." Could those landscapes have been offensive enough for the employee to object so strongly?
I worked at a print shop for a few years in college. I tended not to read the content of what I was printing but pictures were particularly hard to ignore. This leads me to believe that something in the pictures may have offended someone.
So put yourself in the employee's shoes. What would be so offensive that they would bring it to the boss and refuse to do their work?
I'm not trying to argue the free speech point because it just seems to go round in circles. What I am trying to say is that before you condemn the employee, try to understand where they may be coming from.
I worked at a print shop for a few years in college. I tended not to read the content of what I was printing but pictures were particularly hard to ignore. This leads me to believe that something in the pictures may have offended someone.
So put yourself in the employee's shoes. What would be so offensive that they would bring it to the boss and refuse to do their work?
I'm not trying to argue the free speech point because it just seems to go round in circles. What I am trying to say is that before you condemn the employee, try to understand where they may be coming from.
Christopher Robin,
Please stop making arguments that this copy place took away your right of “free speech”. Free Speech protections are protecting you from the government taking away your right of free speech, not anyone taking you free speech. Just because someone says to you, "shut up" is not a violation of your right to free speech. If the government tells, you to “shut up” . . . that could be a free speech violation.
This is just a business telling you they do not want your $100 in exchange for the printing service. If you wanted to print up a zine saying, the printer is a neo-Nazi. . . He has the right to refuse printing your opinions. I bet they even have a sign saying as much. They might be refusing to print your zine because you are a jerk to them.
Would you print letters that prisoners wrote berating you? Would you feel it was non-censorable material just because the author is in prison? Would you print the letter if it gave out your home address, and asked people to hunt you down if they ever get out of prison? Are you that against censorship. . . I doubt it. Therefore, you just do not like that the printer was uncomfortable with your zine. Is not that what the zine is all about? If everyone thought, it was acceptable and nice you would likely not be a zine.
When people cry wolf too much is lessens the effect of calling "real" free speech violations to people’s attention. Fell free to gripe, complain, whine, and cry. . . Just do not call it “free speech”. Why not just argue that they are violating your free speech by changing you $100. . . It makes about as much sense as what you are writing.
Please stop making arguments that this copy place took away your right of “free speech”. Free Speech protections are protecting you from the government taking away your right of free speech, not anyone taking you free speech. Just because someone says to you, "shut up" is not a violation of your right to free speech. If the government tells, you to “shut up” . . . that could be a free speech violation.
This is just a business telling you they do not want your $100 in exchange for the printing service. If you wanted to print up a zine saying, the printer is a neo-Nazi. . . He has the right to refuse printing your opinions. I bet they even have a sign saying as much. They might be refusing to print your zine because you are a jerk to them.
Would you print letters that prisoners wrote berating you? Would you feel it was non-censorable material just because the author is in prison? Would you print the letter if it gave out your home address, and asked people to hunt you down if they ever get out of prison? Are you that against censorship. . . I doubt it. Therefore, you just do not like that the printer was uncomfortable with your zine. Is not that what the zine is all about? If everyone thought, it was acceptable and nice you would likely not be a zine.
When people cry wolf too much is lessens the effect of calling "real" free speech violations to people’s attention. Fell free to gripe, complain, whine, and cry. . . Just do not call it “free speech”. Why not just argue that they are violating your free speech by changing you $100. . . It makes about as much sense as what you are writing.
Actually, what I wanted to do was give people the option of using a business that does not support underground efforts locally. I have fought for free speech plenty, in plenty of other areas so this is not where I wave the flag, but yes I did mention the issue. And no, I have never been a jerk to this business I have frequented for over 4 years. And there are no signs posted. I was there the day they opened and they have never been anything but friendly to me. I run my own zine and print letters from prisoners "berating" me all the time, I think they are humorous, I tell them where to go, and vice versa. I don't censor their work either, except for nudity which is not allowed in prisons at all, which would make the whole point of prisoner zines moot. Also, the landscapes I mentioned were of Hawaii and other tropical islands, though the other zines in question probabloy had plenty for one to take offense: anarchism, drugs, animal lib, sexual content, whatever! I have worked for homeless people, prisoners, antiwar, gay rights, etc etc, and I have been censored a few times in my life. Whether that is the issue here or not I don't know, I just wanted to let others know.
Obviously there had to have been some very offensive content to have an employee of a local liberal print shop not feel right about doing the printing?! And obviously the local folks of Santa Cruz are going to continue to be loyal to their print shop and will continue to give their business and support their community. You are just as bad as Starbucks trying to close a mom and pop shops down...enjoy your $10 coffee. My business will continue to support local Santa Cruz and I applaud them for exercising their freedom of speech.
Think about it from the owner's perspective, since he has "never been anything but friendly" to you (your words). Now the owner has an employee that is so upset by the material that they refuse work. This means that if the owner tried to force the employee to do it, he could be facing a lawsuit. I don't think a judge would look kindly on a boss forcing offensive material on an employee.
Now he has a real problem. The disgruntled employee could essentially take him to the cleaners if he made them print it, or he risks telling you. He chose the latter, likely since you seem to have a good relationship (a first name basis). I am assuming he hoped that you would understand his predicament and kindly take you work elsewhere without any hard feelings.
But instead, you turn and get angry and post up on your local forum about how the shop is censoring you! On top of that you say it's going to happen to others that print underground publications. To me, you are blowing this way out of proportion and should really try to understand people that may have a different point of view (right or wrong) than your own .
What you should have done is kindly taken your business elsewhere to print this questionable material. At the most you could have told others that this has a been a kind print shop to you for years, but that maybe you should check with the shop and ask if they are comfortable printing the material.
I personally think you should call that print shop and apologize for acting so rash.
Now he has a real problem. The disgruntled employee could essentially take him to the cleaners if he made them print it, or he risks telling you. He chose the latter, likely since you seem to have a good relationship (a first name basis). I am assuming he hoped that you would understand his predicament and kindly take you work elsewhere without any hard feelings.
But instead, you turn and get angry and post up on your local forum about how the shop is censoring you! On top of that you say it's going to happen to others that print underground publications. To me, you are blowing this way out of proportion and should really try to understand people that may have a different point of view (right or wrong) than your own .
What you should have done is kindly taken your business elsewhere to print this questionable material. At the most you could have told others that this has a been a kind print shop to you for years, but that maybe you should check with the shop and ask if they are comfortable printing the material.
I personally think you should call that print shop and apologize for acting so rash.
You need to post the "offensive" material on line here to give the readers some idea of what we're all talking about.
The problem is that Christopher reacted way too extremely. No matter how offensive we may think the content is, the owner had no choice but to not print the material. Christopher's reaction was uncalled for whether or not the content was offensive.
Reading Christopher's story, it seems that he has no idea what in particular was offensive. He lists off a bunch of stuff that could be found offensive by some but doesn't mention any specifics. I wonder if Christopher asked what was offensive. Or did he just storm out without trying to understand the situation?
Plus, if the content was really offensive, do you think think Christopher would actually post it?
Reading Christopher's story, it seems that he has no idea what in particular was offensive. He lists off a bunch of stuff that could be found offensive by some but doesn't mention any specifics. I wonder if Christopher asked what was offensive. Or did he just storm out without trying to understand the situation?
Plus, if the content was really offensive, do you think think Christopher would actually post it?
Actually I did ask Rob what he found offensive but he would not tell me, so that is information I do not have. Robert Norse suggested I show the covers on here so here they are and I'm done.
sorry, didnt come out! I'll try again. If you really want to find out about these, you can buy them at our local streetlight records or write me and I'll mail you one for the cost of postage ( a dollar or so).
I thought you said they were insulted by purely text. So now why are you posting these images? Also, you said the images were landscapes of Hawaii and such. I'm not convinced you're posting the actual content here, but there's no way for you to prove it so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
What is really in question here is how you acted. I will ask again, did you inquire as to what was offensive? From your story (shaky as it is) I gather you're pretty quick to throw this print shop under the buss for such a small dispute. Especially since you say they have been good to you.
Something else has been bothering me. You seem to be leveraging this forum (and maybe others) to try to destroy the print shop's integrity (see the title of the thread if you disagree). If you were telling the entire story and weren't afraid of people knowing everything about the situation, wouldn't you invite the shop owner or employee to express their opinion?
It seems to me you are trying to undermine the shop using forums such as this. That seems a little shady to me. In fact, it kind of reminds me of main stream news, you know, only giving one side of the story.
What is really in question here is how you acted. I will ask again, did you inquire as to what was offensive? From your story (shaky as it is) I gather you're pretty quick to throw this print shop under the buss for such a small dispute. Especially since you say they have been good to you.
Something else has been bothering me. You seem to be leveraging this forum (and maybe others) to try to destroy the print shop's integrity (see the title of the thread if you disagree). If you were telling the entire story and weren't afraid of people knowing everything about the situation, wouldn't you invite the shop owner or employee to express their opinion?
It seems to me you are trying to undermine the shop using forums such as this. That seems a little shady to me. In fact, it kind of reminds me of main stream news, you know, only giving one side of the story.
Tater is sure a catch, how many of you IndyBay ladies are engaged to him already?
Seriously though, you'd need to scan all the zines so we could see what might be the problem. Nothing I have seen would I consider beyond the pale of decency unless someone was offended by the devil horns on that girl maybe, or by a bit of cleavage. Are you sure there isn't anything worse inside?
Seriously though, you'd need to scan all the zines so we could see what might be the problem. Nothing I have seen would I consider beyond the pale of decency unless someone was offended by the devil horns on that girl maybe, or by a bit of cleavage. Are you sure there isn't anything worse inside?
actually there is a way to prove it, all you have to do is request the issues. You are an ace at turning peoples words against them, and why you would think I was shady after posting the covers of all the zines in question?
and thank you a-feminist for actually reading my posts before commenting on them, you actually have some intelligence and not just a misplaced vendetta. Everyone posting on here seems to be standing up for the "little guy" but have any of you actually been to the store in question? Yep, that's what I thought. This is ridiculous. I have nothing to hide. Get a life, persing. Later.
and thank you a-feminist for actually reading my posts before commenting on them, you actually have some intelligence and not just a misplaced vendetta. Everyone posting on here seems to be standing up for the "little guy" but have any of you actually been to the store in question? Yep, that's what I thought. This is ridiculous. I have nothing to hide. Get a life, persing. Later.
I may have written the last comment in a bit of a haste, and I apologize for that and the way it must have come off. I don't believe I turned your words in any way so please correct me if I have. If you were reading my comments, you would know that I read through your posts thoroughly but if i have misread or misunderstood something let me know.
The pictures you posted did not offend me personally, and I can see you're point of view. You want to print these so that the prisoner's voices can be heard, and they're not that bad. But I can also understand if someone would be offended by it especially if there are children around the shop (you never know if employees bring their kids in after school) .
Next time please be patient and try to hear their opinion and get a better understanding of it. Don't take a-feminist's side and declare war on the shop. I asked you all those questions because I wanted to understand what happened in detail. I know the questions seemed harsh and directed, but I'm really trying to understand the situation. So if you can find the time, please answer them.
Yes, I have been in the shop to make a few copies on their self serve copier before heading off to work. That's why this thread caught my interest. I grew up in Santa Cruz and I know it and it's people fairly well.
You mentioned that the prisons censor the content that is given to you. What if they didn't. Where would you draw the moral line of what you should print or give print shops to print? Or are you just a vessel passing along the info?
My point is you can't berate someone else's moral limit until you know where your own is. If you have no limit then I don't think you can understand someone that has one.
BTW, my first name is Joshua, not Persing. Persing is my last name. I never called you Robin so please show equal respect.
The pictures you posted did not offend me personally, and I can see you're point of view. You want to print these so that the prisoner's voices can be heard, and they're not that bad. But I can also understand if someone would be offended by it especially if there are children around the shop (you never know if employees bring their kids in after school) .
Next time please be patient and try to hear their opinion and get a better understanding of it. Don't take a-feminist's side and declare war on the shop. I asked you all those questions because I wanted to understand what happened in detail. I know the questions seemed harsh and directed, but I'm really trying to understand the situation. So if you can find the time, please answer them.
Yes, I have been in the shop to make a few copies on their self serve copier before heading off to work. That's why this thread caught my interest. I grew up in Santa Cruz and I know it and it's people fairly well.
You mentioned that the prisons censor the content that is given to you. What if they didn't. Where would you draw the moral line of what you should print or give print shops to print? Or are you just a vessel passing along the info?
My point is you can't berate someone else's moral limit until you know where your own is. If you have no limit then I don't think you can understand someone that has one.
BTW, my first name is Joshua, not Persing. Persing is my last name. I never called you Robin so please show equal respect.
dear joshua, thank you for writing. I have not declared war on the shop, simply taken my business elsewhere. I am glad I posted now because a local anarchist printer has asked me to take my business there and I will. Thank you also for seeing my point of view. These are the actual covers. And to clarify, the prisons themselves do not censor the content of what the prisoners send me, but if I was to copy and mail the zines back to the prisons, they cannot have nudity, and I admit, I had missed a couple of bare butts before I took them to Alpha, which I later had to cover as I explained above. But since I had been going there so many years I didn't think they would have a problem with anything I gave them. In many ways I am just a messenger. But if someone writes to me and wants me to publish a neo-nazi zine then I just wont take the project, as I have plenty of other zines to produce with halfway sound ideas from kids that mean well. I'm not even an anarchist 100%, but I believe in them, so I do the work. Thank you for your well meaning and intelligent response once again.
For more information:
http://www.literaryrevolution.org
Unusually civilized and candid dialogue here. Thanks to both Joshua and Christopher.
It does seem to me appropriate for a printshop (one of the few in town) to specify what exactly it is that bothers them if they are declining to print a publication. If Christopher asked and they declined to state, it throws a kind of chill over anyone who comes in with a deadline expecting to get something printed.
I would suggest to both Joshua and Christopher that they repeat their requests to the management to specify what it was exactly that offended the management and/or workers. This would be helpful info to others deciding whether to give them business, or even deciding if their copy would be likely to be rejected.
Thanks for the dialogue and the info. If anyone wants to call in with updates on my radio show, please do---Thursday night 6-8 PM on 101.1 FM (also http://www.freakradio.org) at 427-3772.
It does seem to me appropriate for a printshop (one of the few in town) to specify what exactly it is that bothers them if they are declining to print a publication. If Christopher asked and they declined to state, it throws a kind of chill over anyone who comes in with a deadline expecting to get something printed.
I would suggest to both Joshua and Christopher that they repeat their requests to the management to specify what it was exactly that offended the management and/or workers. This would be helpful info to others deciding whether to give them business, or even deciding if their copy would be likely to be rejected.
Thanks for the dialogue and the info. If anyone wants to call in with updates on my radio show, please do---Thursday night 6-8 PM on 101.1 FM (also http://www.freakradio.org) at 427-3772.
it's not that hard to figure out.
tricky sometimes, but not impossible. just look outside of downtown.
"local business" is one thing but there is a fine line between a meal truck and a struggling a bodega and then the people who are turning downtown into a police state!
glad to hear about the prisoner solidarity and underground press stuff going on in scz. you should drop some zines off at sub rosa!
tricky sometimes, but not impossible. just look outside of downtown.
"local business" is one thing but there is a fine line between a meal truck and a struggling a bodega and then the people who are turning downtown into a police state!
glad to hear about the prisoner solidarity and underground press stuff going on in scz. you should drop some zines off at sub rosa!
For more information:
http://sticksandstonesscz.blogspot.com
robert, cuz you always got my back. Yeah maybe the title of my post was alarmist, but Rob at Alpha basically closed the dialogue so I'm not going to bother him about it. And thanks S&S for letting me know about the @ conference at subrosa, i will definetly try and be there. I did leave them some zines not long ago, still waiting to hear if they fit in there. Streetlight records carries them. If people have zines, support Streetlight! (and they won't keep carrying them if we don't buy them too). They are the only place left in town aside from Sub Rosa (as far as I know) that will actually carry zines. And I don't care if a place is corporate or local, if they suck, they just plain suck. I actually get better treatment at Office Max while robbing them blind.
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