BART Police Officer Mike Zendejas asking for "Donations" for Johannes Mehserle BAIL

Can't you come up with something a little more original than "Fuck this pig"?

I mean, really, do you think name-calling is going to help the situation at all?

If you're angry, try to channel that anger into something creative, positive, or at least interesting.

Enough with the "fuck the police" chants already... if you're trying to build a movement that involves a wide range of communities, this is not the message that is going to convince them to listen to your perspective.

Whose trying to "build a movement"? The fact is that innocent people are dying and being repressed by an out of control police agenda that operates above the law and rarely faces retribution for their actions. That's what is "building the movement". To protect and serve my ass. I feel more in danger with the police around. Say it proud, "Fuck the Police!"

Just the other day the Salinas police shot several rounds into an SUV. The couple inside were found to be unarmed. That's the shit that is building a movement, not some postings on indymedia. Get over your PC self. This is war. Fuck the Police comin straight from the underground!

Oh Please forgive us. We are young and stupid. We need guidance from you as to how to reach all the diverse communities that might be put off by our anger at having many of our friends (or if not directly friends, people who look just like us) shot and killed. We know anger is so (how do say it) unhealthy and inappropriate, and we await your further management and supervision of our outreach style. As a beginning to our learning, we would like to know if it would be correct if we said "Fuck the Peace Officers, Please!"?

Ok, well, if you don't give a shit about building a movement to stand up to the cops, go ahead and scream "fuck the pigs" all you want. Why don't you go ahead and smash some ATMs and break some windows to really "stick it to the man" and see how effective that is.

Are you trying to change conditions or just have a temper tantrum about them?

This isn't about being "PC" or not holding the cops accountable... it's about figuring out ways to do it that will actually make a difference.

If you just want to scream "fuck the pigs" b/c you're angry, that's fine... but don't pretend that your changing anything or acting revolutionary. But that's ok, you seem fine with calling people names instead of coming up with intelligent tactics for fighting police repression, so go ahead and scream at me some more if if makes you feel more anarchist.

I don't care how sarcastic you want to get, but for those of us who actually take life seriously and want this incident to bring attention to the problem of police misconduct, any kind of uncontrolled anger is unacceptable and only adds fuel to the arguments of those who would excuse the cop involved. Please know that your "FTP" comments are not only *not* cute, but they're producing a lot of legitimate anger on the part of people trying to do something about the root problem here. This is as opposed to childish temperament outbursts.

how the fuck do you come off saying it adds fuel to peoples defense?

sounds like rhetorical bullshit to me.


mehserle is now officially out on bail.

if people want to be realistic about this, this fool is going to get off with man slaughter charges.

and all you fucking liberal peacenik activists will just move on to the next person to be killed by police.

quit trying to direct anger away from cops, its fucking disgusting.

i cant think of what way fighting the police to push them away from your neighborhood.


if you're gonna be a realist then be fucking realistic.

quit protecting the machinery that enables this bullshit to continue.

this is a fucking joke. how the fuck are you gonna defend police?

what kind of fucking movement do you want to build? there are daily attacks on our lives.

i dont know what lapse in fucking logic all these liberal democrats are experiencing but seriously get a fucking grip.

how are you going to condemn the smashing of an atm?

or the breaking of windows out of police cars.

sure bigger things can be done but i have a feeling that if mother fuckers decided to torch the car and burn down the bank youd be just as ready to decry the action as you would any other.

lets just be fucking honest, if you think direct action and property destruction is a bad idea then just say it.

at least you can stop pretending to support militant action when you clearly would rather sign a petition and rest easy.

Any number of church and social justice leaders are trying to build a movement around this incident. And they're being thwarted. Their efforts are being destroyed by snotty little fools with nothing better to do than try to come up with the most insulting remarks they can toward individual police personnel. Wake up, people! This is serious! This isn't just an opportunity to hurl insults at people your parents admired! It's a *REAL* social issue!

1. Gandhi insisted that his followers be courteous and peaceful towards their oppressors. He did this even when the British were beating people and jailing them.

2. Gandhi won.

Any questions?

really dead.

"There are many people who feel that it is useless and futile for us to continue talking peace and non-violence - against a government whose only reply is savage attacks on an unarmed and defenceless people. And I think the time has come for us to consider, in the light of our experiences at this day at home, whether the methods which we have applied so far are adequate."
...Nelson Mandela.

You accuse people in this thread of trying to "defend the police."

Nobody here is trying to defend the cops, ok? If you actually read the criticisms of your childish rhetoric, you would get that. We're talking about finding REAL EFFECTIVE ways of holding them accountable and fighting for REAL SOLUTIONS TO STOP POLICE OPPRESSION IN OAKLAND.

Most people I've talked to are not part of your little "fuck the pigs" crowd, even though they have real, visceral hatred towards cops... but they know that screaming at cops doesn't change anything. So they're using their brains to figure out better ways to fight the system.

Clearly, you don't give a fuck what other people think though (as you've demonstrated here)... so why don't you just admit that you're not an anarchist - YOU'RE AN ELITIST.

some here have criticized the slogan on the picture above. fine. like abortion, if you don't want one, don't have one. if you don't feel that way, then don't say it yourself

BUT...

it's BS for you to throw stones without putting up your own ideas here. where are your great ideas? unless I missed something you yourself haven't exactly stopped police violence against citizens. it happens all the time. it's been happening for far too long. you haven't stopped it and yet you dare to tell people that their frustration and anger is "childish"?? you should talk to some of the families who have lost loved ones before you call anger inappropriate

this was a legitimate post. the union leader pleading for bail money through official channels is something that needs to be called out, even if you find the language unsuitable for Gandhi or your precious ears

and it's double-BS when someone here wrote, "Their efforts are being destroyed." Really? How? Give a specific concrete example or two. there are plenty of anti-police abuse NGOs that have been out there, and some new ones have sprung up recently, and they seem to be doing just fine (donations are up, etc), except they haven't stopped police abuse and murder. and you want to tell people they should not be angry or ever express any rage or disgust with people like the union cop called out here?

you want to know what will stop people from being mad? stop police violence. get out there and do it. YOU go out there and do it. if you're a cop, it's high time to rat on the crooks around you. if you're a lefty dem, get active now, be vocal and don't let up until it stops. the first step, of course, regardless of the tact taken, is to hold the most disgusting amongst the police accountable, and that's what this post is doing. but to just sit back and do nothing and have the nerve to tell others to shut up is worse than passive silence, it's active consent with police abuse and murder

Right or Wrong we are all entitled to feel the way we want. But it is NOT alright to walk around screaming, damaging other peoples property, and acting uncivilized. This is not the cave days when we don't know any better. Please I understand there is a lot of grieving and hurt but the hurt is everywhere. Do not attack people and their nature of wanting to help. If people give into this our City will continue to go downhill and I for one am looking forward to change. Good change. Lets do our best to remember WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

I would rather live in an uncivilized cave than in your UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (sweet land of liberty-bullshit!)

allows people to SCREAAAAM!

For the last thirty years the system has done all it can to destroy the liberties of the people. The police seem so willing to have the constitutional rights of people thwarted. They now video tape protests in an effort to subvert our first amendment rights. The police unions and their servants, the politicians, have had their day and look what they've done. The police keep testing to see how far they can go - The Riders, The Port of Oakland Riot, The deaths of Gary King, Jr. , Oscar Grant III and others. There are constant stories of corruption, brutality, cronyism and yet...nothing happens. The system is not working for the people.

The sad fact is a lot of people don't care....unless they learn when something happens to them directly. They just want to watch their tv, their sports games, movies, video games or attend concerts. The death of Oscar Grant is just a blip on the screen which interrupts their pleasure, their entertainment. I saw a lot of letters to the editor who blamed Oscar Grant and said the videos don't show things in context. We got some scary public....they are asleep at the wheel. What will wake them up, shake them up?????

Look, say what ever the f*ck you want. F*ck the Police aint done shit to stop police from whoopin' fools ass'($20 says it piss them off) so its hot breath being wasted. What is f*cked up is that all these fools who took advantage of rallies and marches and decided to f*ck sh*t up and knew it would spark angry youth of color to do the same.we know who police are gonna grab first. And ya'll bastards are well aware. Then ya'll mofo's in an effort to say "we were all colors of the rainbow that night"(that's why ya'll ass'hid behind your bandanas) decide you want to send the pictures and videos to youtube of youth jumpin on cars. So much for standing up for police brutality and standing up for the f*cked up treatment of youth- you couldn't bring ya'll selves to be ethical and think twice about how those pictures were going to be used.so now folks are being approached on there way to school by police officers w/portfolios full of pictures ya'll published of kids on cars and sh*t. So where did all this shit get kids in Oakland like Oscar? A fuckin curfew, you dumbass'. So much for your "f*ck the police" chant as well as your rioting. If ya'll were really hard, you would have f*cked up city hall not jamba juice or radio shack or mom n pop stores. But ya'll are just dumbass' who like f*ckin up shit,no issue/cause necessary. "Fuck the dumbass'"

"fools who took advantage of rallies and marches and decided to f*ck sh*t up and knew it would spark angry youth of color to do the same"

wow, where to start?

first of all, if you haven't seen that big Chronicle photo of the kids jumping on the police car, the first "illegal" reaction to Oscar Grant's murder on Jan 7th, they were kids of color. it was on the front page of the paper and all over the interwebs. that action was spontaneous and they were not lead into it by anyone

secondly, you are buying into the media myth if you think white kids are/were leading non-white youths to do anything. read reports from people that were actually there, like JR from the POCC (http://www.sfbayview.com/2009/oakland-rebellion-eyewitness-report-by-pocc-minister-of-information-jr/). white people have been involved but are not leading anyone. that's insulting to youth of color to regurgitate nonsense about them being directed by white kids

third, and I can't comment on youtube or commercial sites because I don't use them (maybe you should be commenting your relevant complaints there), it's the corporate media that posts clearly identifiable pictures of people on cars (see Chron photo mentioned above). additionally, on the 14th when people ran through the city center shopping area breaking windows, it was people of color. didn't you see the gobs of TV news video that documented this, again with identifiable images?? I dare you to find incriminating images on this website. show me, because I haven't seen them

basically, you start from misinformation and every deduction you make from there is faulty, if not racist and demeaning to people of color who have full rights to be pissed about police violence. then you like to throw in a bunch of ad hominems for good measure

again, what are you doing that has been so effective at stopping police violence? you don't seem to be doing anything but throwing stones from your glass house

This is truely sad you guys

This is the problem with America the violence and the inability to live diversely

tho I'd admit everywhere u go there is racism and discrimination but some places much more under control

look north Canada doesn't have this problem (or minimal)

We claim this is the a free country but i beg to differ

I'm not picking sides in this dispute cuz it's tidious

Comon USA

Amazing how if cops shoot unarmed civilians, they practically get away with little to no repercussions. Now flip the script, when civilians shoot and kill cops, they want to mandate a 25 year minimum of prison time. Where's the justification in that? Once a cop is arrested and charged with murder, them he/she is no longer an officer of the law....in fact they are civilians.