IVAW - Operation First Casualty (photos)

Uniforms were HORRIFICALLY inaccurate. Are you sure these people were in the military? 8 points on a patrol? I think i saw one guy wearing some kind of black dress shoes and white socks. Are you serious? IVAW is full of "vets" who's story are sketch to say the least. Many have never even been to Iraq. And I know of only ONE member of IVAW that has seen legitimate combat. As in, only ONE person there actually knows what it means to go out on a patrol and detain suspected enemy combatants. Some of these people are Air Force....you must be joking! Air Force is going to act like they know what a combat patrol looks like? Please, there's a reason this wasn't covered on the news. Why won't the "winter soldiers" testify under oath? Testify at the risk of being charged with perjury if found to be lying? IVAW seems like a bunch of of vets who have an ax to grind with a staff sergeant who put them on working parties 24/7.

Leigh, you have been telling us for at least one year now that you are joining the Marine Corps. Melanie Morgan even did the big "Leigh Wolf" going to war piece last spring and yet all you are active in is the San Francisco State Republican Club.

Oh yeah and the Minutemen.

This Young Republican who's been chomping at the bit to join the marines (just not yet ! ) has quite a few things wrong . First re the Air force . Yes they don't go on patrols except on the permineters of their bases . But they have both participated in this obscene imperialist war and have sometimes suffered for it . (i could be wrong but i think approx. 100 Air Force personnel have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan )
And as for seeing combat , MOST don't . For example in Vietnam , a , so far, more intense conflict ,of the approx. two million who were there from 1964 to 1975 only about 25% were in combat patrols etc. Now sometimes the war came to them as in the famous Tet offensive , where even quartermaster clerks had to use their M16's .
Anyhow what about Navy Pilots ? They killed a whole lot of Vietnamese from above but very few of them died . And Leigh, wasn't your Prez candidate McCain a ''great American hero '' ? (Not in my view . He was just unlucky enough to be shot down ! )
Your final comment about most IVAW members just had a beef with their staff sgt.'s is both beneath comment and stupid .
Vets wouldn't take such a public stand against this war just to settle a petty personal score .
As re your remark about testifying under oath , i'm sure many of them would love to . At a war crimes trial in the Hague of their commanders !

Their willingness to act out real scenarios that they have participated in or directly know about lend this movement added credibility.

We must also appreciate that for some it may be traumatic to relive incidents that were something they are not proud of.

I appreciate their willingness to do this for all our good.

Hey, Whitey Privilege. You try to talk like you've been on a patrol yourself. We've spoke and you told me you just got out of boot camp. You have never even been on a deployment outside of your parents' house. After you've spent about 20 months in Iraq and Afghanistan combined then you can talk shit. You only enlisted out of Arrogance and to add a bullet point to your political resume. Also, if you would take the time to actually talk with some of us instead of talking about us, you would know hundreds of us are combat vets. Yes, I was in the Air Force. I may not have patrolled but I've transported detainees while dodging rockets, FOOL! I got quite a few medals for combat shit so don't came at me like that. You don't defend the Iraq war because you support the troops. You defend it because you support colonialism and corporate interest. You told me yourself that as Americans we enjoy commodities like oil so this war shit is necessary. Who enjoys it? Elitists and yuppies. Not working class and poor folks. Like soldiers. At what costs? At the cost of over 4,000 service men and women, countless Iraqis and Afghanis, communities and families torn apart on both sides, our country going broke... And you support that? I hope after a tour or two of Iraq or Afghanistan you'll start catching on. Peace.

“IVAW is full of "vets" who's story are sketch to say the least. Many have never even been to Iraq. And I know of only ONE member of IVAW that has seen legitimate combat. As in, only ONE person there actually knows what it means to go out on a patrol and detain suspected enemy combatants. Some of these people are Air Force....you must be joking! “

Ok boot, you’re really going to start questioning peoples service? Should IVAW members submit to you their dd-214's? (do you even know what that is yet?)
Actual combat vet (me): “Seen much combat?”
Boot PFC, who’s never deployed (Wolf): “ I’ve seen a little on T.V.”

“Why won't the "winter soldiers" testify under oath?" Well, smarty pants that's because some things we do in the field (which you still don't understand because of your bootness) aren’t exactly legal but “necessary at the time.” Here's a simple exercise for you, ask around infantry and armor units what “drop weapons” are (you may have to travel a short distance from your IPAC desk get to those units). Listen more closely to some stories from Iraq and Afghanistan, and other places.

“Testify at the risk of being charged with perjury if found to be lying?” Yes, perhaps. But also the fear of implicating others and getting the brothers who trust you and who you trust in serious trouble for doing things, that again, were rationalized as being necessary at the time. You might know this had you ever seen anything other than beautiful San Diego.

No need to troll blogs btw, we’re always up for an actual debate.

Semper Fi tough guy,
Ernie
1st Tanks USMC
Operation Iraqi Freedom 2003

B-Z! Good work! America needs to see what their taxes pay for.

Yesterday was a very moving demonstration. Watching the footage and personally witnessing people's reactions during the action, it was obvious that when people paused that they were both moved and shaken up because what all of us were viewing was disturbing and exposed a truth that most people want to conveniently ignore.

To Mr. Wolf: I read your post trying to point out inaccuracies and questioning those in IVAW. Even though I'm not a member and I have no idea if anything you say bears any truth, your attacks don't change the fact that that this group got out there to spread their message and make a presence to the community. After the action, I was with an IVAW member in Civic Center as he went up to the homeless in the vicinity and the majority of them were Vietnam vets and he opened up a conversation of their experience and how they deserved the benefits that had been promised to them. To me, this isn't a group who is just trying to "settle a vendetta" but really change the unfortunate truth of how veterans are treated after their service and help them with the other problems they face. Whenever you have a chance Mr. Wolf, I think it would be to your benefit to visit and talk with veterans so you can deepen your understanding of the effects of war. Maybe you’ll understand why the organizers of IVAW made yesterday’s event and push forward to help out veterans. Regardless of the degree to what a person has served, people have the ability to see the negative effects of participating in the military.

Thank you all the organizers, especially IVAW for making such a great action. I hope you guys realize how much a difference you make.

I applaud this action . I agree that this Campus Republican Wolf is full of shit . I also think that sadly IVAW probably doesn't represent the majority sentiment of Iraqi and Afghan Vets .
i have spoke to many over the last couple of years . It's true that most of the IRAQI vets want withdrawl . But mainly because they feel that tactically it doesn't make sense to continue and that frankly '' No more american blood for Arabs '' . I haven't yet encountered anything resembling '' Anti_imperialist ''sentiments yet. As for Afghanistan fergitaboutit ! Gung Ho '' Let's get the job done '' blah blah . remarks are the norm .
I think the fact that all are enlistees and not really that many enlisted due to the ''poverty draft ' ie economic desperation , are factors in this conservatism .
This isn't unusual . Historically most Veterans movements have been right wing not ''antiwar''and progressive. Yes i know about the Bonus Marchers in the 1920's, Smedley Butler's famous '' I was a gangster for Wall street '' statement during the same period , and of course the emergence of VVAW and other radical GI and Vets resistance in the late 1960's and early 1970's . But there was no Korean vets against the war, no French equilaivant of VVAW of vets of the Indochina and Algeria wars , only a handful of Brits that ''served'' in Northern Ireland later denounced that ''low intensity ''war etc.
Here in the US there are Vets groups that sincerely fight for rights, health care, decent jobs etc. for returning vets . But most aren't opposed to US Military interventions . To put it bluntly they just want preferential treatment for Vets (over other working class people ) because they '''served their country ''.
Think about it . Do Vets deserve preferential hiring for say Postal Jobs ? I don't think so and I'm a Vet !
Enough for now . Please please don't misunderstand . I think that the '' Winter Soldier '' hearings and the Thanksgiving Guerrila theatre were a great step forward . But i just doubt we will ever have a mass GI resistance like during the Vietnam war. But believe me i want to proven wrong .

Points well made Mario. I largely agree with you. Personally I think IVAW needs a better long term strategy if they don’t want to go the way of VVAW.

See Leigh, this is how adults make their arguments.

-Ernie

Ernie I want to contact you outside of this silly forum. This argument goes much deeper than our personal barbs. I have a great deal of respect for Adam Kokesh and a grunt who served in Phantom fury (who i'm really good friends with and don't want to bring him into this) , two IVAW guys i've talked to on a fairly regular basis. I do, however, have some criticism i'd like to run by you outside of the impersonal gotcha game of a web forum. I'd like to either correspond via e-mail or maybe even meet up on campus sometime. What's your e-mail?

First off, as a civilian turned boot you need to respect ALL veterans. I don’t shit on a “pro-war” vets’ service so why the fck do you insist on shitting on other peoples service? Give respect. Get respect.

Anyways I’m hardly ever near campus anymore so email me: eestrada.ca.votevets [at] gmail.com

*** All Is Not Well In The Land Of Hope-N-Change ***

I know it's late in the game to make a post about it but I just wanted to point out to Leigh, that in order to join IVAW you must submit your DD-214. That would be the papers proving that you were in the service.

Abershawe

Operation Iraqi Freedom
'03 - '04
'05 - '06