Twitter the Torch - Text message updates!

After all, there's even a legacy for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_boycott_of_the_1980_Summer_Olympics

The Time is now- world attention is on San Francisco- we are at a critical junction- lets give the torch the reception it deserves. We are doing this in memory of over a million murdered Tibetans.

Richard Gere and Bishop Tutu will be at UN Plaza this afternoon- please come here what they have to say.

Do it also in memory of thousand murdered in Iraq, Afghanistan, Darfur, Burma ecc. ecc. without any distinguished. Human rights are universal. All the world is waiting for U. Do U best.

Yeah but the difference is, that people in the USA have a direct responsibility for what is going on in Afghanistan.

America has no moral credibility to scold others about oppressions and occupations....

Let's have a look:

"As a specific policy with regard to China, [the Open Door Policy] was first advanced by the United States in the Open Door Notes of September-November 1899. In 1898, the United States had become an East Asian power through the acquisition of the Philippine Islands, and when the partition of China by the European powers and Japan seemed imminent, the United States felt its commercial interests in China threatened. U.S. Secretary of State John Hay sent notes to the major powers (France, Germany, the United Kingdom, Italy, Japan, and Russia), asking them to declare formally that they would uphold Chinese territorial and administrative integrity and would not interfere with the free use of the treaty ports within their spheres of influence in China."

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_door_policy

Because, see, we knew what was best for China....

"America has no moral credibility to scold others about oppressions and occupations...."

I disagree- the US governmnet granted China "most favored nation' status- to facilitate trade. American capitalism and consumerism rests squarely on the shoulders of Chinese oppression of workers. Americans would not have the lifestyle they enjoy if it weren't for exploitation of Chinese labor.

"Each year the people of the United States write a check to subsidize China, one of the most brutal, anti-American regimes in the world. Lately it has been in vogue for everyone in Washington to eagerly denounce the egregious abuses of the Chinese people at the hands of their communist dictators...

I offered an amendment before the House of Representatives last month that would have ended the $4 billion subsidy our nation quietly gives China through the US government's Export-Import Bank. The bank underwrites the purchases of goods and services by the Chinese government and others around the world. Unfortunately, only a minority of Democrats or Republicans supported my measure. Apparently, many members of Congress are happy to bash China, but dont mind lending her U.S. taxpayer money at sweetheart interest rates..."

You clearly have a solid grounding in customer service and satisfaction, but that's not the way the real world works.

In the real world, US corporate heads are more than glad to dismantle expensive, unionized industries in the rust belt, and ship 'em to China, where they can get labor for a nickle an hour (as opposed to the dollar an hour it costs in Mexico).

We're their CUSTOMERS? You CANNOT be serious...

And Ron Paul, indeed. He just wants to figure out how to build a wall on his own border...

Quote: "Each year the people of the United States write a check to subsidize China" is wrong, my freind, the truth is: "Each chinese gave to United States 3.000,00 $". China has 1.400,00 billions $ (2007) in Federal bonds. ------------------------------ Read: The Chinese are subsidizing the American way of life. Are we playing them for suckers—or are they playing us? http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/fallows-chinese-dollars

Josh, you richly deserved the credit you received for refusing to cooperate with that Fed Grand Jury and doing Prison time for that defiance .
I realize that as an anarchist you have a world view that's very different (in some respects anyway ) from Marxists like myself .
But please Investigate who you are jumping into bed with ! i have no doubt, as a poster on another Indybay thread wrote . that the Chinese Govt. is using brutal tactics in Tibet . But what do the '' Free Tibet'' groups really want ? Most say a theoracy like they had before the Dali Ilama fled to India .
A totally religious dictatorship where women were treated as slaves . Where male workers were powerless. Where there wasn't even the trappings of democracy .
Some might that too much has changed to return to that , that a '' Free Tibet '' will be a ''western style Democracy but with a strong role (ie Veto power ) for the D.L.
In other words a base against China . A situation that could eventually lead to WW 3 .
Surely you don't want to be standing shoulder to shoulder with reactionaries like that on April 9 ?
Please read , think, and reconsider .

I meant to write '' Some might say '' in my previous post.
PS - Fox news praises the '' Tibetan freedom fighters ''.

Thanks for the text msg info Josh. I hope the last minute route changes can be countered and we make it rain o the CChinese parade. Great action on the Bridge, Lets keep up the momentun of that action and the London and Paris fellows.

Keep up the good work and watch out for grabby cops. Solidarity.

If you want to imagine a post-PRC TIbet, let me suggest it'll look less like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

...and more like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan#Soviet_invasion_and_civil_war

Chinese torch guards are 'thugs' says British Olympic chief
By Laura Clout and agencies
Last Updated: 11:51am BST 08/04/2008

Sebastian Coe, the chairman of the London Olympic Committee, has described the Chinese officials guarding the Olympic torch as "thugs", piling more embarrassment onto the Games' organisers.

The Chinese guards, more than a dozen of whom surrounded Olympic flame during its chaotic journey through London on Sunday, are officially employed to ensure the safe handover of the torch between runners and to ensure it remains lit throughout the relay.

But the attendants, thought to have been recruited from the security services, have been criticised for allegedly using aggressive tactics against protestors demonstrating against China's human rights abuses and the occupation of Tibet.

Emotional Tibetan Protest Ahead of Torch Relay

SAN FRANCISCO (KCBS) -- Hundreds gathered in San Francisco for the lighting of the Tibetan Freedom Torch Tuesday, after the tranquil arrival of the Beijing Olympic Torch in the city during the predawn hours.

Fifty white doves were released as part of the ceremony led by Tibetan monks in United Nations Plaza. Supervisor Chris Daily helpted light the torch and promised San Francisco would greet the Olympic torch “in a nonviolent yet most militant way.”

I agree with Tony Soares . I too respect dedicated radicals like Josh Wolf .. But some radicals, especially Anarchists、 historically been misled by progressive sounding phases like '' Self Determination '' (taken out of any historic context )
One cannot remove the Tibet situation from the context of a esclating campaign against the Peoples Republic of China。

It's interesting that Paris protestors evaded them, despite their so-called training. That's amazing to know -- street protestors can put down the Chinese security forces. More interesting is that they've never had any real experience with protestors . . . unlike the SF cops.

Olympic torch: who let in the Chinese guardians?
The guards protecting the Olympic flame had paramilitary training
and were chosen by Beijing for their toughness and fitness
April 9, 2008

China’s blue-clad flame attendants, whose aggressive methods of safeguarding the Olympic torch have provoked international outcry, are paramilitary police from a force spun off from the country’s army.

The squad of 30 young men from the police academy that turns out the cream of the paramilitary security force has the job at home of ensuring riot control, domestic stability and the protection of diplomats.

. . . . .

The Olympic medallist and organiser of the 2012 Games was overheard saying that the officials had pushed him around as the torch made its way through the capital on Sunday. He added that other countries on the route should “get rid of those guys”.

“They tried to punch me out of the way three times. They are horrible. They did not speak English . . . I think they were thugs.”

What the Tibetans want is a say in their own future. Self determination. Even if we as privildeged Americans don't like their choice.

Hamas is theocratic and oppresses women- is that any reason to side with Israel?

Hmmmm. Maybe?

The Chinese-American Community is united in support of the Olympic games being held in China . There are major class and idelogical differences among Chinese immigrants and Chinese Americans . But not on this question. To read one supposed radical calling for 'raining on the CHINESE parade is very upsetting . If in your ignorance you want to support Tibetan feudalists , go ahead .
But the next time at some progressive coalition meeting you bemoan the lack of diversity , you are responsible for the burning of bridges with the Chinese -American community .
I would like to add if the accounts from the right wing english paper are accurate i condemm the actions of those security men . There is much wrong with the PRC leadership. But make no mistake this selective, chauvnist campaign against China reinforces the govt.'s position .

The history of virulent anti-Chinese racism in CA doesn't matter-- what matters is that Americans feel empowered, despite their continuing inability to impeach a war criminal with a 20-something percent approval rating, before he kills again.

People wonder why they chose SF of all places, for the torch run... duh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatown%2C_San_Francisco%2C_California

Despite... other certain legacies that co-reside there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatown%2C_San_Francisco%2C_California#History

Funny, now that you mention it, they were lynching ethnic Chinese folks back then, too, weren't they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Massacre_of_1871
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workingman%27s_Party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

So how do the vast majority of chinese Americans feel about china's continued ethnic cleansing and genocide of the tibetan people?

too many facts for your taste?

"The Chinese-American Community is united in support of the Olympic games"

I guess you weren't out today supporting the torch. Not too many were--the news teams couldn't find anyone on the streets to interview. There were, however, thousands of Chinese and Tibetans (doesn't the Chinese govt consider Tibetans Chinese--or is China imperialistic?) opposing PRC oppression. Local Chinese television made it a much bigger story than the networks. I guess the Chinese-American community is not united in support of the Olympic games without a protest of PRC oppression. Who's paying you to distort reality, Lee?

Hi Tony, thanks for the respect. I must say, I slightly resent your suggestion that I'm "jumping into bed" with anyone here. I have built my reputation on covering dissent, and I will continue to cover dissent whether I agree with the protesters or not. I'm not really planning to voice how I feel about this particular issue at the moment, but suffice it to say I have little to no respect for the Chinese government. I'm working to cover this event and help others learn of information regarding this event in the same way I would for any notable unrest in the city.

When the right-wing Christian zealots invade the bay and Giants stadium next time, I plan to cover this as well. This isn't about how I feel, this is about covering matters that the MSM fails to do in a sensible manner.

YOU FUCKING PIGS KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CHINA . TALKING ABOUT CHINA'S HUMAN RIGHT, YOU FUCKING PIGS DO REALLY MAKE ANY SYRVEY AMONG CHINESE PEPOLE BEFORE SENT YOUR FUCKING REPORT. WHAT YOU FUCKING AMERICA PIGS HAD BROUGHT FORTHE WORLD , IRAQ PEPOLE WILL CURSE YOU FUCKING GUYS FOREVER , YOU FUCHING PIGS DO REALLY HAVE THE RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THE HUMAN RIGHT . LUCKILY ,I LEART SOME ENGLISH THAT CAN REACT TO YOU FUCKING PIGS' REPORT .AT LAST I WANT TO GIVE SOME ADVICE TO YOU FUCKING PIGS , CHINA PEPOLE WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU ....NEVER NEVER .

We aren't involved in this to make us popular, potty mouth. We're involved with this because its the RIGHT thing to do, and its the RIGHT time to do it.

End the ethnic cleansing of Tibet! End the Chinese Occupation! Extinguish the torch of hatred

fuck you, biased medias!

"' Response'' seems to want it both ways . According to his co supporters of Tibetan Nationalism Tibet is not part of China but a occupied nation . (Funny at last night's rally there wasn't any mention of two countries that are indisputely occupied, Iraq and Palestine I wonder why ? (NOT ! ) . )
But if Lee doesn't state that Tibetans are Chinese he's (i assume he's a man ) he's ''imperialistic '' .
Then '' Response'' implies that Lee is working for the Chinese Govt. That would discredit him if true .
But he has been proven that the "' Free Tibet'' movement is at least partly funded by the good old CIA .
No problem with that eh '' Response'' ?

Thanks for your response Josh but i'm a little confused . i didn't mention it before but one of the things i admired about your stand was that you challenged the myth of ''objective '' journalism . You (i thought ) were saying that you were both openly partisan and tried to be scupulously accurate in your reporting .
I commend that. As Dennis Bernstein of KPFA says '' I'm a objective journalist . I have a objective ! "' What i disagreed with was your apparent support of these Free Tibet actions .
Now you're saying something to the effect that you just cover the news etc. But your title '' Twitter the torch -Text message updates' and the infro following it certainly sounds like you're backing the demos . Am i wrong ?

While I do try to be as accurate as possible in my reporting, and make no claims that I am a neutral conduit for the news, I also try to maintain some level of independence from any groups I am covering. I am certainly sympathetic to the Tibetans plight, and I am glad to see various groups using this opportunity to make China's human rights violations and other thorny issues more visible. On the whole I agree with the motivations of many of the protesters I encounter, but find some of the anti-communist rhetoric thats also bouncing around to be a bit myopic.

That said, my objective has always been to cover stories that I feel are important and have always focused on dissent. The msm always plays these issues from one perspective and I feel I have done a decent job delivering an alternative view, and would intend to provide that perspective in whatever situation I can.

No, if Lee were working for the Chinese government, it would not discredit him. If his argument were proved to be false—"The Chinese-American Community is united in support of the Olympic games being held in China," with the implication that protesting against China's human rights abuses at Olympic P.R. events = not supporting the Olympic games being held in China (else there is no point in the post)—then his argument would discredit him.

The United States considers Puerto Rico a semi-autonomous territory of the United States. Ethnic Puerto Ricans are therefore considered Americans.

China considers Tibet a semi-autonomous territory of China. Ethnic Tibetans are therefore considered Chinese—by those who support the Chinese occupation of Tibet, unless it is acknowledged as a racist, imperialist occupation. Many ethnic Tibetan, Chinese Americans are protesting China's human rights abuses at the Olympic P.R. events and therefore, according to Lee's post, do not support the Olympic games being held in China. Clearly, the Chinese-American community is not united in support of the Olympic games being held in China.

It strikes me as odd that Lee would discredit himself by blatantly misrepresenting facts without receiving compensation. I did not say that Lee was a PRC agent—you have jumped to this conclusion. He writes well, in the style of any P.R. flak man.

Please indicate where Lee "proved" the Tibetan freedom movement is funded by the CIA.

To state that the Chinese government is an illegal military force of occupation in Tibet doesn't absolve the U.S., Israel and other occupiers of their war crimes. Nobody in the "Free Tibet" group is making these claims. Similar to the "Save Darfur" group and their pro-Israeli bias (we then discovered that U.S./Israel funds the Darfurian rebels, while China funds the Sudanese government in Khartoum, so who is "right" in this situation?), there is some chance that CIA operatives are poised to takeover the genuine human rights activists in Free tibet and replace them with pro-capitalist lackeys. Even then, nothing the CIA does with Tibet will return China to their original communist worker/farmer owned state, as now China is hopelessly married to import/export capitalism, especially with their mafia run sweatshops that export tons of plastic crap to be sold at Wal-mart stores in the U.S. IF China were a true worker run state that practivced the ideologies of Marxist communism, there would be no sweatshop abuses. However, we know that this is not the case and China's sweatshops are among the worst in the world for human rights violations. We as people living in the U.S. who reap the bloody benefits of these Chinese sweatshops, we especially have an obligation to speak out against the U.S. importing merchandise from Chinese sweatshops..


Here's a resource for documenting the verifiable labor abuses occurring in so-called "communist" China..

http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/en/web/

Then there's the genocide in Darfur, basically rival empires (China vs. U.S./Israel) provoking and arming neighboring tribes (Janjaweed vs. Darfurians) to fight one another in hopes of gaining control over the petroleum deposits under Darfur..

Can't say that there's a whole lot of difference between China and the U.S., and both are committed trade partners keeping the sweatshop mafia and the Wal-mart imports going without interference..