Chauncey Bailey & the War on the African Community

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like which ones?

Yusuf Bey IV is a piece of shit thug. attacking him and the organization he "led" doesn't equal attacking "black militant organizations."

the Uhuru House plays the same kind of thuggish race-baiting crap as the "Black Muslims" under the Beys, so it's no wonder they're not interested in an analysis of fraudulant radical groupings--the real conversation that Bailey's murder warrants.

Uhuru know something about thuggery. They have been known to engage in it themselves, physically attacking ACT-UP demonstrators and blaming them for AIDS in the African-American community. I am merely one more of many who have seen it. When confronted with the facts, Uhuru a) will not affirm in words what they practice, but instead b) attack eyewitnesses as bigots &c.

It is high time Uhuru renounce such tactics, and join the rest of the left in condemning homophobia, rather than joining with the system in perpetuating it.

It's a bit shocking that Indymedia continue to let Uhuru post events, when the evidence is that LGBT-perceived people are not particularly safe at events where there might be substantial Uhuru presence.

I'm no fan of Uhuru but these types of attacks are annoying since you attack them generically for attacking ACT-UP without mentioning the actual incident that took place. Uhuru seems a bit cultlike but no more than other groups like the RCP or Sparts (and the RCP used to be openly anti-gay but did change that stance). From the one time someone actually explained to me about the incident with Uhuru and ACT-UP it related to a former member of Uhuru (who I think now mainly does Phillipine related solidarity work) pushing someone from ACT-UP at the Ashby flea market (10 years ago?). If that were the case I would be more likely to hold that against the groups the guy involved helps lead now than Uhuru but from what Ive heard of the incident I dont have enough information to know exactly what happened or why (was it over views on homosexuality, an argument over something else political, a non political argument over flea market related issues...)

Perhaps Uhuru has a current anti-gay stance and that would be worth knowing but since the focus of comments about them always seems to be mainly driven by a conflict between two people a long time ago it would be good to get more details on both what Uhuru's stance is on homosexuality now and also what happened in the incident with ACT-UP (since they really don't sound related)

The fact of the matter is Chauncey Bailey was murdered(mafia style) by a man attached to an organization with a long established background in criminal activity. Now, let's give the accused his day in court, but let's not make any stupid statements about a police "war against the African-American community".

The issue is gangs like the Muslim bakery folks are much more of a harmful presence in the black community than the police. Gangs poison the community with drugs, shoot indiscriminately into houses caring not a whit about who gets hurt, and generally terrorize the overwhelming majority of people in the community who are law-abiding, hard-working citizens. Frankly your worst cop could only dream about wreaking the kind of havoc that these gangs like the Muslim bakery clowns, crips and bloods, perpetrate.

No, the "eyewitness" account above did not refer to an incident at the Ashby flea market. It did involve a group of Uhuru-identified individuals, at a public protest, and they did attack an ACT-UP table, and they did verbalize their homophobia.

It sounds, from your additional comment, that there is something of a pattern of behavior here. An articulation by Uhuru of their ideology as it relates to homosexuality would be most useful to forming a better idea of where they stand (unlike knowing more about who I am &c). Meanwhile, doubt of their good intentions on the point is well-founded, and extreme caution is duly advised.

Additionally, unlike Uhuru, the RCP had the decency to articulate their POV in writing, and to change it when confronted with the evidence that their line was in fact not correct. Would that more on the left could say the same thing.

"It did involve a group of Uhuru-identified individuals, at a public protest, and they did attack an ACT-UP table, and they did verbalize their homophobia. "

Sounds like the incident I heard of and I probably misheard it but that was largely because it was described to me initially the way you are describing it. I have now misdescribed it and now someone else will go around saying they heard that Uhuru attacked someone at the Ashby flea market but will be as vague as you are and not descibe details because they likely wont know them. This type of vague accusations not placed in a time or location remind me of how the FBI used to leak stuff to discredit groups they hated. Uhuru is hardly a threat to the government so I'm sure you are being vague for other reasons but it still makes me uncomfortable. Saying "Defend yourself against this vague change that I will make you describe" is creepy even if the group you are asking that of is creepy itself.

I am now left to assume that somewhere (in the Bay Area? In St Petersburg?) a group identifying itself as Uhuru (were they really members? are they still members? did their actions reflect on the group or just it not caring who it let in?) attacked (pushed, yelled at, hit?) an ACT-UP table (did they attack the table or a person?) with motives that are also not given (was it over a disagreement with Act-Up's belief that HIV doesnt cause AIDS? Was it personal? Did the person from Act-Up confront the Uhuru people first? Anonymous attacks on a group are one thing but one cant really conclude anything from an unsubstantiated anonymous attacks that leaves things so vague; if it was just a yelling match because Uhuru didnt like ACT-UP's stance on HIV causing AIDS I might side one way, if it was due to Uhuru being antiGay I would side the other... (but even then not knowing who did what when it might not reflect on Uhuru if it was a long time ago with people barely involved with their group)

if i remember correctly the incident vaguely alluded to above occured in Oakland in the aftermath of the Rodney King verdict. Uhuru people attacked ACTUP if not physically at least with threats of physical violence and intimidation. homophobic slurs were hurled at the ACTUP activists. Uhuru wanted to dominate the event seeing the moment as ripe for their tired vanguardism. history has proven that in '92 the Uhuru House had already had its heyday; it has become even less relevant in the intervening years.

does anyone remember Freddie Lee Roberts?

"if i remember correctly"
So you are attacking Uhuru and asking them to defend themselves against something you are not sure about?

"occured in Oakland in the aftermath of the Rodney King verdict."
There was a lot of violence in a lot of places in the aftermath of the Rodney King verdict a lot of it semirandom. Uhuru wasn't to blame for most of it.

"Uhuru people attacked ACTUP if not physically at least with threats of physical violence and intimidation."
Again you are not quite sure and seem to be reporting 3rd hand.

"homophobic slurs were hurled at the ACTUP activists. Uhuru wanted to dominate the event seeing the moment as ripe for their tired vanguardism. history has proven that in '92 the Uhuru House had already had its heyday; it has become even less relevant in the intervening years."
If you are reporting 3rd hand hoe much is true, how much is assumption, how much is exageration... hard to know.

If you were mainly just saying Uhuru is creepy due to some recent things or pointing to something and asking if anyone knew more that would be one thing. What seems bad about what you are doing is demand a response from current Uhuru members assuming that with some vague and possible incorrect set of details they will be able to defend or explain an event that occured before any of them likely joined the group. If they sound defensive or don't respond its not really that surprising as to why.

i'm not the person who raised this incident; i was only chiming in with my recollection of the event.

that said, i don't think your criticisms are wrong-headed. vague accusations are indeed a problem.

my gripe with the Uhuru House is that it's a dogmatic groupscule that brings into its fold people who might otherwise be doing positive and relevant stuff. the fact that it has failed to grow or participate in any promising activity in Oakland is due to the fact that it is caught in a time-warp, trading on a politics, aesthetics and language that were dated thirty years ago.

Obviously, the facts in question can't be specified to prosecutable levels (so to speak) without a personal ID from the complaintant(s), and I'm not gonna go there. Even then, who can prove they're not government agents, out to "smear" some person or group? Nope, can't prove a negative.

On the other hand, based on sustained allegations from different individuals of different incidents over time, it seems fair at some point to ask Uhuru to step up and clarify their thinking on homosexuality, homophobia, and their ideological relation to same.

After all, no one likes the Sparts, and yet people don't go around alleging they're queer-bashers.

There's logic, and then there's common fucking sense.

"Obviously, the facts in question can't be specified to prosecutable levels (so to speak)"

Sure but what you started out doing with Uhuru was asking them to explain something without giving any detail. It would be like someone coming up to you and saying "explain to me the racist incident one of your friends was involved in" without actually saying which friend, when the incident took place etc... You now have clarified it was 15 years ago, but don't know if it involved physicial violence, don't know who was involved and don't even give a location. With clarification what you are saying is roughly equivalent to someone coming up to you and saying "I hear you have a history of Asian bashing. Why don't you respond or always sound defensive when I ask you about a self-identified friend of your who may have yelled or attacked a Korean grocery store owner during the LA riots?" If you know a lot of people in LA who belong to the same political group as you, it is hard to respond if you don't know if the incident is a lie, exagerated, taken out of context, or true.

"sustained allegations from different individuals of different incidents over time"

Are there other alleged incidents? I thought I heard the same incident you mentioned but since it is more a rumor than fact I had some of the details different. Vague allegations risk snowballing since the lack of details makes it hard to distinguish one incident from another.

The issue with Uhuru is a history of rumors about homophobia not a history of attacks on gay activists. It would be interesting to hear Uhuru's views on homosexuality. I wouldn't be that surprised if they are horrible. I wouldn't be that surprised if as a group they have no official views which is why they don't respond online when asked (in which case the question to an Uhuru member should be about their personal views and the views of others they know in the group).