Roe v. Wade: We Won't Go Back!

aren't they killing a person every time they have their period without getting pregnant? Sure seams to me like they are the real "baby killers". Their arguments don't even make sense because they have absolutely no understanding whatsoever about science or a woman's anatomy.

The point is that in a country where religion is not supposed to dictate law, it is wrong to try to create laws based on moral beliefs. I do not necessarily believe in the same things as my neighbors; is it my place to tell them their beliefs are wrong and that mine are right? Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, it is still important to respect other people's beliefs. I agree with the sign saying, "Don't believe in abortion? Don't get one!"

When a woman has a period, it is because her EGG did not become an embryo and implant in the uterus. Having a period does not mean embryo died, it means there was no embryo in the first place.
We really need to know what we are saying before we open our mouths!

In this country, the law is not supposed to dictate religion. Somewhere along the line it became twisted so now some uninformed people seem to think its religion that is not supposed to dictate law. In reality, religion deals with natural and moral law, and has nothing to do with politics.

OPEN YOUR MINDS!

How you think the Pope gets elected? Why does the religious right mobilize politically to deny rights to women and LGBTI people?

Elizabeth. You miss the point. My neighbour may support the war in Iraq but that does not make the invasion acceptable. It does not mean the ant war movement should respect his position ans be quiet. All views are based on belief, be they religious or otherwise. If you follow your logic, someone who believes domestic violence is okay should be allowed to do it. Imagine a sign saying. Don't believe in slavery? Don't have one. But of course don't stop others doing it. It is a ridiculous position.

The sign "Get your rosaries off my ovaries" shows the lack of truth or perhaps awareness of science in the pro choice lobby. Ovaries are not involved in abortion! Abortion involves a human life AFTER conception. same as the person comparing a period to abortion. Opposition to abortion lies in the belief that life begins at conception. The unborn has its own DNA, own blood type and when many abortions occur, its own heartbeat. Scientifically, it is not the same tissue as the mother. Please stick to the facts as your statements just appear ignorant.

Is that the same as compassionate conservative? oh yeah- I remember the compassion from when Katrina hit. Good job with all that. How ya doing with Darfur?

You know what? If it talks like a righty and walks like a righty, IT'S A RIGHTY!

I was with the Pro-Life group and thought I would publish some of my photos I took of the event.

*feel free to use them. If you would like to publish them please tell me so I can see it I think that sort of stuff is neat, I will give you the orginal photos if needed for print.


**quick disclaimer, I’m converting to catholism and pro-life. Unlike some people in the pro-life side of things I respect your views and that you came out to counter protest I'm so glad that San Francisco can hold two groups of people with such strong views on things and not have violence brake out. I am a women's studies major at Fresno City College*

Sorry I forgot to add the link to the photos here you go
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93175327@N00/

Uh huh, i suppose you also think that the eft right divide of last century is relevent. Not anymore. There are pro choice right wingers and radical left pro lifers. It might not suit your propaganda but it is true. Iam a union representative, marched against the Iraq war, oppose Bush and oppose abortion. There are lots of us.

Welcome to the right wing! We calls em as we sees em!

Uh huh ,there certainly are many who are opposed to the war and Bush and abortion. I don't see any political party truly being for life. My thoughts, as I was marching for life, to those demanding an end to the war were; We are trying to stop the war. We are at war with our own people. We are killing our own offspring and there will never be an end to the other wars in this world until we end this one here in our own land. What a joke for us to be in other countries supposedly defending their rights when the most innocent and defenseless future citizens of the U.S. have no rights or protection. There have been more babies killed by abortion than in any war.Another thought on those demanding their right to choose was, Keep on choosing to abort and you are going to choose your family line right into extinction. You have fallen for the Population Control advocates agenda and are unwittingly helping them to eliminate your race.

How many of those anti-abortion people demonstrate on a regular basis against the direct and indirect consequences of US capitalism and statism around the world? How many protest against the thousands of children who die in Africa EVERY DAY from easily preventable diseases and hunger while US corporations exploit the 3rd world and produce anti-wrinkle creams for rich westerners? What about the millions who die every year around the world from nefarious working conditions due, in great part, to US corporate exploitation? What about the millions who starve around the world while Americans consume consume consume? What about US billionaires and millionaires whose money could feed millions, Do they protest that?
How many protest against the 700,000 Iraqis killed and 7 million maimed by their tax dollars? How many protest against the countless homeless in the US living like dogs? How many protest against US nuclear bombs which can put an end to humanity? How many protest against the pollution of US industry which is destroying the world and millions of species? How many demonstrate against US support for dozens of dictators,which kills and tortures millions? How many protest against US support for states like Israel which regularly slaughter children?
How many protest the US military budget, which could be used to feed starving people around the world?
I could go on and on.
I suspect only 0.00001% of those people think these are priorities, which demonstrates without a doubt that their alleged concern for the possible future lives that would have come about without abortions is not based on morality, but on ideology.
They are hypocrites for a simple reason: Whatever their contribution to abortions (tax money) is not nearly as much as their contributions to the forms of murder and torture I mentioned.
They don't care nearly as much about those who are alive and being tortured and murdered by their apathy, tax dollars and complicity in the system.

One of the old arguments against women getting abortions is that the "white" race was going to be eliminated...I see that type of phucked up thinking hasn't gone away.
You aren't pro-life...you just see women's wombs as garrisons ...and pregnancy as another extractive industry

Jonathon, all those things you mention should be protested against. I have protested against some of them. But have you protested against killing the unborn? Do you oppose late term abortion. There is inconsistency on both sides. The anti war pro abortion lobby and the anti abortion, pro war group both are inconsistent. The reality is there is another way which opposes ALL violence. I have no time for people like Bush who oppose abortion but unleashed terror on Iraq. But I equally have no time for those claiming to be interested in peace who turn around and defend abortion. To oppose violence and injustice is to oppose those things you mention as well as abortion. A world without war where unborn babies are killed in the womb is an unjust world!

I was there..believe me, i'd know.

It's not inconsistency . My point is that there are much greater priorities, as I conclusively demonstrated.
Furthermore, at which point of conception, how long after the sperm enters the egg do you consider it "killing" a baby i.e at which point does the meiosis producing a baby differ morally from the meiosis producing sperm?
If we can't call an aggregate of cells a "baby" then is it "potential life" that you are against?
If that is the case, shouldn't you be against condoms, masturbation or sexual constraint?
And like I mentioned earlier, shouldn't you worry about things like nuclear annhilation or the countless men, women and children who are UNAMBIGUOSLY alive and die and suffer everyday due to a system you contribute to (in a much greater measure than abortion)?

Also, are you a vegetarian? What do you think about killing animals for food?

Johnathon,How can anything be a higher priority than your own child?

Are those people and children dying from the direct or indirect consequences of US capitalism and statism around the world not "your children? What about the thousands of children who die in Africa EVERY DAY from easily preventable diseases and hunger while US corporations exploit the 3rd world and produce anti-wrinkle creams for rich westerners? What about the millions who die every year around the world from nefarious working conditions due, in great part, to US corporate exploitation? What about the millions who starve around the world while Americans consume consume consume? What about US billionaires and millionaires whose money could feed millions, Do they protest that?
How many protest against the 700,000 Iraqis killed and 7 million maimed by their tax dollars? How many protest against the countless homeless in the US living like dogs? How many protest against US nuclear bombs which can put an end to humanity? How many protest against the pollution of US industry which is destroying the world and millions of species? How many demonstrate against US support for dozens of dictators,which kills and tortures millions? How many protest against US support for states like Israel which regularly slaughter children?
How many protest the US military budget, which could be used to feed starving people around the world?
I could go on and on. I could go on and on.
I suspect only 0.00001% of those people think these are priorities, which demonstrates without a doubt that their alleged concern for the possible future lives that would have come about without abortions is not based on morality, but on ideology.
They are hypocrites for a simple reason: Whatever their contribution to abortions (tax money) is not nearly as much as their contributions to the forms of murder and torture I mentioned.
They don't care nearly as much about those who are alive and being tortured and murdered by their apathy, tax dollars and complicity in the system.Furthermore, at which point of conception, how long after the sperm enters the egg do you consider it "killing" a baby i.e at which point does the meiosis producing a baby differ morally from the meiosis producing sperm?
If we can't call an aggregate of cells a "baby" then is it "potential life" that you are against?
If that is the case, shouldn't you be against condoms, masturbation or sexual constraint?
And like I mentioned earlier, shouldn't you worry about things like nuclear annhilation or the countless men, women and children who are UNAMBIGUOSLY alive and die and suffer everyday due to a system you contribute to (in a much greater measure than abortion)?

I think you have hit the nail on the head- the concern for life only extends to one's one bloodline- it represents a narrow pre-occupation with oneself, as opposed to a broader concern with the rest of the world
And the way they use the term"life" is similarly narrow...frankly, I am not pro-life, I am pro-sustainability. Life (contrary to their outraged statements and narrow definition) is not the end all be all, and it is niot meant to be serviced blindly or sacrificed to...and make no mistake, anti-choicers, when you call for a women like myself to continue a pregancy agianst her capability or her will, you are calling for a tragic, unmerited sacrifice and you are a committing a huge transgression.
The impact of thousands of children born to those who do not have the emotional stabiliity or maturity to parent is incalculable...it creates its own diaspora in a way...

Johnathon and woman who's had an abortion,
You believe terminating a pregnancy is fine and I'm commiting a huge transgression by saying that abortion is wrong????? Talk about diabolical disorientation! You believe in sustainability? So how many 1,2 3 year olds etc. are sustainable???? If you should have a stroke and become dependant on others are you going to be terminated? May God have mercy on this humanity.

Because at the point that I am older and suffering, as an adult (not a fetus; you make a huge categorical error when you consider us the same) I have had a lifetime of being able to form community(hopefully) and come to terms with how I want to be treated...it's all about cognition, Fran which makes way for the ability to self determine...
It IS about sustainability, and yes, you do commit a far bigger transgression if and when you force women to give birth, or force them to do anything- your use of force puts you in the same category as a rapist as far as i'm concerned.

Address the points I raised in prior posts (as I did) if you wish to have a rational discussion. Accusations and name calling are a waste of time and energy.

My comment is in reference to the picture of a girl holding a sign that says how many unwanted babies have you adopted. If you click go to the address http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/01/21/18349881.php which is from this site and you look at the 6th picture from the top you will see a woman holding a rosary and a baby. THis woman goes to my church. She is holding baby Sarah who she adopted!!!!!!! You may ask if I have adopted any unwanted babies, and what about the other pro-lifers that I know??? Well I know many pro-lifers who have adopted and many more who wish to and will in the future. I likewise wish very much to! When I am in a place where I can, I will probably adopt 10 or more "unwanted" children. Why? Because I want them! No child is truly unwanted! I know many, many, many people who would welcome children into their homes and families as one of their own! I cannot wait to adopt children! This is something I have wanted to do since childhood and will surely do!

However the voice that told me not to allow my pregnancy to continue to term was as loud and as clear as your voice...There is a morality in listening to that mandate. I was never meant to be, nor do I have any desire to have, children. I was not put on this planet to have children. Because I have a fully functioning reproductive system and a sex drive it has happened that I have gotten pregnant. The pregnancy was not some sort of note from your God saying "its time"...it's just impossible to explain to well-meaning people like you what it means to not be a deist, to understand that abortion,i f it isn't forced, isn't a tragedy, and that life runs on a very long, long continuum and the lack of birthed life from me will in no way alter its course or slacken its pace...there is more to life than anthropomorphistic chauvinism will let you believe.
Oh, and before you say anything about Beethoven almost being aborted, guess what? Beethoven, or any other famous person that was almost aborted (according to the annals of conservative thought/history) was made as much as, or more than he was born.
Person-hood is a social project, held firmly in the hands of those who care..and those that don't. The real work starts after someone is born.

see more at the link below Heather. Your holy work is not finished.

Aid urged for older foster kids
Abandonment at age 18 causes huge problems, group says
- Heather Knight, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 17, 2007


(01-17) 04:00 PST Sacramento -- The state of California neglects foster care children once they turn 18, turning them out onto the street with nowhere to live, no way to support themselves and nobody to turn to for support, according to a new report by the Children's Advocacy Institute.

The institute, run out of the University of San Diego School of Law, on Tuesday called upon the state Legislature and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to support new legislation providing substantial financial support for foster youth once they "age out" of the system at 18 and ensure they have an adult guardian to provide guidance.

"These are not other people's children. These are legally our children," said Robert Fellmeth, director of the institute. "How you treat them is a measure of your devotion to family values."

...One of them, Nancy O'Reilly, 26, lived a chaotic life with her sisters and mother until her mother abandoned them when Nancy was 13. When she hit the end of her senior year of high school, her friends reveled in their senior trips and graduation while she was privately "scared to death" of being out on her own.

"I was completely in survival mode," she said, noting she worked part-time and went to college, but eventually dropped out. But her story has a happy ending. She was adopted at age 24 by a former social worker and is now attending Cal State Stanislaus.

Her sisters weren't so fortunate. O'Reilly said they have resorted to working as strippers and have been arrested, homeless, on drugs, on welfare and in abusive relationships.

"Some people say it's the choices they made, but when you have no choices, you do what you have to do in order to survive," she said. "Today, I want to beg the state to stop abandoning my foster brothers and sisters."

©2007 San Francisco Chronicle

"Against abortion? Don't have one" That's like, "Don't believe in shooting babykilling abortionists, then don't shoot one."

SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I am a sinner and am headed to eternal hell because of my sins. I believe you died on the cross to take away my sins and to take me to heaven. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart and take away my sins and give me eternal life.

I didn't realize the US branch of Hezb allah (translated into English as Army of God) was this into making vague threats against abortion doctors?
Don't you find it a bit risky to be identifying your self as a leader of a group that is classified by the US government as a terrorist group and also giving your email and name out? I'm opposed to the Patriot Act and government oppression as the next guy, but you got to be careful or your going to end up in Gitmo.