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World Bank / IMF Protests Scenario Outline
We are not mobilizing for this year’s World Bank / IMF meetings? What?! You will not find a rally and a march from one part to another filled with speeches and empty platitudes. BUT, YOU WILL FIND LOTS OF ACTION! Don’t come to Washington, DC, April 21 – 23 if all you intend to do is march. However, if you want to take effective action, you can march and do a whole lot more!
Updates, housing information, ride boards, other logistics information available at http://worldbank.activeresistance.org or by signing up to the listserve at http://lists.activeresistance.org/mailman/listinfo/dc.
World Bank/IMF Spring Meetings, April 21-23, 2006
Schedule of Resistance:
Friday, April 21st- Evening Spokes Council - Gather with other individuals and affinity groups to strategize and plan actions for the weekend. Time to be announced. Place: The convergence center at St. Stephens Church, 16th and Newton Streets NW (S2 and S4 bus; Columbia Heights Metro).
Saturday, April 22nd- We are organizing a day of trainings (at the convergence center) to be followed by an evening of action. While the goons of capitalist exploitation plot their schemes behind closed doors, we will prepare ourselves for effective and safe resistance. From legal trainings to guerrilla street theater, affinity group training to an orientation on DC community struggles, we will gather our tools and CONFRONT THE DELEGATES AND THEIR CORPORATE FRIENDS ON SATURDAY FOLLOWING THE TRAININGS. If they want to eat, drink, and be merry on the backs of billions worldwide, they will do so in the face of our resistance.
Sunday, April 23rd- Day of autonomous direct action. Keep the pressure on the individuals who power the machine of global exploitation. Let them know they cannot stage their war on the poor without hearing our cries in the streets!
****
Brought to you by the Farragut Squares. farragutsquares@gmail.com.
For more information:
http://worldbank.activeresistance.org
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"Evening Spokes Council"
1) How does one come to be chosen for this?
2) How is one, once chosen, recalled from this?
3) How is its agenda determined?
4) What, if any, budget does it control, from where does it come, and how does one verify that it is administered without corruption?
1) How does one come to be chosen for this?
2) How is one, once chosen, recalled from this?
3) How is its agenda determined?
4) What, if any, budget does it control, from where does it come, and how does one verify that it is administered without corruption?
This person is obviously ignorant in community organizing and activism....
We are the leaderless-we work together, and take individual initiative as a part of the whole....
What are you a cop or idiot soldier that follows orders or something...?
We are the leaderless-we work together, and take individual initiative as a part of the whole....
What are you a cop or idiot soldier that follows orders or something...?
> This person is obviously ignorant in community organizing and activism....
or all too familiar with it.
> We are the leaderless-we work together, and take individual initiative
> as a part of the whole....
that is the theory. does it really go down that way?
> What are you a cop or idiot soldier that follows orders or something...?
it must be something, for daring to question the anarchists... eh?
dont hear of that much, do ya?
or all too familiar with it.
> We are the leaderless-we work together, and take individual initiative
> as a part of the whole....
that is the theory. does it really go down that way?
> What are you a cop or idiot soldier that follows orders or something...?
it must be something, for daring to question the anarchists... eh?
dont hear of that much, do ya?
Try this.
You said:
"take individual initiative as a part of the whole.... "
So what happens when your "individual initiative" fucks up my "whole"?
Where do I turn for redress?
Consider your answer carefully-- your vision of the future might depend on it.
You said:
"take individual initiative as a part of the whole.... "
So what happens when your "individual initiative" fucks up my "whole"?
Where do I turn for redress?
Consider your answer carefully-- your vision of the future might depend on it.
Turn to your own individual initiative.
For some reason, the following didnt survive the censors....
Where will "individual initiative" versus "individual initiative" lead?
How is that different than, for example, lynchings?
This is one of the brokenest parts of anarchist theory, and lots of people wonder exactly this thing-- how is this different than the so-called "law of the jungle," in which it's everyone for themselves (either individually or in small groups).
Censoring the question out of a thread does not make it go away. To the contrary, it makes it look that much more important.
Stop running from it, and confront it. You just might end up contributiong to anarchist theory in a way that's meaningful to average people.
Where will "individual initiative" versus "individual initiative" lead?
How is that different than, for example, lynchings?
This is one of the brokenest parts of anarchist theory, and lots of people wonder exactly this thing-- how is this different than the so-called "law of the jungle," in which it's everyone for themselves (either individually or in small groups).
Censoring the question out of a thread does not make it go away. To the contrary, it makes it look that much more important.
Stop running from it, and confront it. You just might end up contributiong to anarchist theory in a way that's meaningful to average people.
Anarchists don't lynch. We talk. Any violence at all between anarchists is extremely rare. It's the rest of you who slaughter each other at the drop of a hat. Don't judge us by your standards, We're not like you.
It is rare because there are not many anarchists.
Violence between Green Party members is rare too. Same with Pace&Freedom people and Libertarian Party folks.
Actually, you don't hear about too many fist fights between Democrats nor between Republicans.
But one like-minded group on another, that's a whole nother ball game.
Violence between Green Party members is rare too. Same with Pace&Freedom people and Libertarian Party folks.
Actually, you don't hear about too many fist fights between Democrats nor between Republicans.
But one like-minded group on another, that's a whole nother ball game.
I personally suspect that anarchists are a lot like any other humans.
Then what, pray tell, is an attentat?
And that means that there needs to be constraints on the power of their leaders, if there is to be any individual freedom in such a society.
Even, perhaps especially, if "everyone" is a leader.
Because how do you check the power of "individual initiative"?????
Even, perhaps especially, if "everyone" is a leader.
Because how do you check the power of "individual initiative"?????
(1.) It only takes two individuals for violence to occur.
(2.) It is rare for the same reason alcoholism is rare among Mormons. It is not our way to deal with each other.
>you don't hear about too many fist fights between Democrats nor between Republicans
You don't *hear* about too many fist fights, period. They are too common to make the news. Most never go beyond gossip. Whether, personally, you see them or not depends on where you hang out and with whom. In some bars, it's hard not to see them, but they're far more common out back. As the Wise Old Bartender explained to once, on my way out the door, "Animals fight in the bar. Gentlemen fight in the parking lot."
The trouble with fist fights, though is that they are against the law. Never break the law.
>Because how do you check the power of "individual initiative"?????
Don't abuse it.
>I personally suspect that anarchists are a lot like any other humans.
Actually, most human beings are a lot like anarchists. Every single one of them put at least one basic anarchist principle into practice every single day of their lives. Most put a number of basic anarchist principles into practice in everyday life as a matter of course, without even knowing they are doing it. The basic principles of anarchism make such fundamental common sense that only villains and fools reject them. The primary difference between anarchists and the rest of the world is we *know* we are doing it.
(2.) It is rare for the same reason alcoholism is rare among Mormons. It is not our way to deal with each other.
>you don't hear about too many fist fights between Democrats nor between Republicans
You don't *hear* about too many fist fights, period. They are too common to make the news. Most never go beyond gossip. Whether, personally, you see them or not depends on where you hang out and with whom. In some bars, it's hard not to see them, but they're far more common out back. As the Wise Old Bartender explained to once, on my way out the door, "Animals fight in the bar. Gentlemen fight in the parking lot."
The trouble with fist fights, though is that they are against the law. Never break the law.
>Because how do you check the power of "individual initiative"?????
Don't abuse it.
>I personally suspect that anarchists are a lot like any other humans.
Actually, most human beings are a lot like anarchists. Every single one of them put at least one basic anarchist principle into practice every single day of their lives. Most put a number of basic anarchist principles into practice in everyday life as a matter of course, without even knowing they are doing it. The basic principles of anarchism make such fundamental common sense that only villains and fools reject them. The primary difference between anarchists and the rest of the world is we *know* we are doing it.
What is Anarchism?
From: http://naac.8m.com/whatisanarchism.html
(snip)
Anarchism revolves around five basic principles: 1) equality; 2) democracy; 3) free association; 4) mutual aid; 5) diversity. Equality can have many different meanings. In regards to our anarchist political philosophy, we speak of equality in reference to power. This doesn't mean we want a new society based on a totalitarian vision of everyone looking and acting the same, in fact we see strength in diversity. Instead we mean that everyone should have equal access to power, to determine how he or she wants to live his or her lives. The best way for equal power to be institutionalized is through different forms of democracy.
Democracy is a vague notion, but in general it seeks to empower everyone to have an equal say in decisions that affect their lives. This is only useful if it extends to all areas of social life.
(snip)
Free Association is the idea that individuals should not be forced into social arrangements against their will.
(snip)
From: http://naac.8m.com/whatisanarchism.html
(snip)
Anarchism revolves around five basic principles: 1) equality; 2) democracy; 3) free association; 4) mutual aid; 5) diversity. Equality can have many different meanings. In regards to our anarchist political philosophy, we speak of equality in reference to power. This doesn't mean we want a new society based on a totalitarian vision of everyone looking and acting the same, in fact we see strength in diversity. Instead we mean that everyone should have equal access to power, to determine how he or she wants to live his or her lives. The best way for equal power to be institutionalized is through different forms of democracy.
Democracy is a vague notion, but in general it seeks to empower everyone to have an equal say in decisions that affect their lives. This is only useful if it extends to all areas of social life.
(snip)
Free Association is the idea that individuals should not be forced into social arrangements against their will.
(snip)
From Outside Magazine, February 2002:
Chuck Demarest and his colleagues won’t take orders, don’t wear uniforms, and each year handle more missions than any other volunteer SAR squad in America.
by Peter Heller
When Chuck Demarest’s pager goes off on an Indian Summer Sunday after noon in Boulder, Colorado, he happens to be at a barbecue with 40 other members of the Rocky Mountain Rescue Group. All around Demarest, beepers start beeping, like a scourge of electronic locusts. Plates of potato salad and bratwurst are set down, and men and women dressed in running shoes and T-shirts smile at one another as they trot down the flagstone steps and hop into their vehicles.
The call is no surprise -- RMR, which completes roughly 80 missions a year in and around Boulder County, is one of the busiest volunteer mountain-rescue squads in the nation. But the scene is still a little bizarre. For one thing, none of the rescuers looks like the character played by Sylvester Stallone in Cliffhanger, the 1993 movie about a mountain-rescue team not-so-coincidentaIly named Rocky Mountain Rescue. More than half the people at the party are engineers; most others are researchers and computer programmers. No matter their age -- most of the 63 members hover somewhere between 25 and 30 -- they all look, well, wonkish. Sixty-four-year~old Bill May, for instance, the barbecue host, is rail-thin, sports big metal-framed glasses, and is a retired engineer who wrote the essential book on wilderness rescue, Mountain Search and Rescue Techniques. Dave Hibl, a 49-year- old orthodontist who's helped develop much of the group's gear, including its litters and winches, displays the conservative haircut and mild-mannered earnestness of Clark Kent. And Jenny Paddock, 39, a serious, compact woman with cropped graying hair, happens to be a Boulder police officer and one of the most highly respected search-and-rescue dog handlers in the state. Proverbial Italian stallions they're not.
Even more unnerving is the fact that no one is wearing a uniform, or even a patch, and no one seems to he in charge. There's none of that militarized protocol so common in the crack emergency teams Hollywood loves to confect. “We’re all-volunteer," says Demarest, clearing up the uniform matter. "We don't like to take orders, and we don't need direction. We're like well-ordered ants."
I follow Demarest to his car. At 58, he's strongly built, with steady blue eyes and a sandy mustache going gray. But even as RMR's longest-term active field member, he doesn't seem to fit the preconception of a rescue jock. A Princeton alum who did graduate work at the University of Colorado in nuclear physics and has trained in classical piano all his life. Demarest is a director of venture-capital firm that’s investing in a treatment for Parkinson's disease. As we pile into his car, a sedate Subaru sedan with a cracked windshield he hits the VHF is public-safety radio, which is already crackling with information about an incident in the foothills above town. A hiker has been mauled by a bear but talking to authorities on his cell phone.
Like everything else about Demarest, the Subaru runs counter to what one might expect, but it serves its purpose well. “I’ve got everything I need for a couple of days in the mountains,” he says as we pull out. This includes boots, headlamps, ice axes, a bivy bag, sets of maps, granola bars, radio, and GPS. "I’ve even got the directions for the GPS, in case I get stupid," he says. Fat chance. Rescue attempts in any season are completely second nature to Demarest. He’s been on more than a thousand missions, and he’s seen almost every imaginable scenario. He’s found downed aircraft in the middle of the night during the dead of winter, and he’s down-climbed at dusk onto a ledge above timberline to spend the night with three half-starved and terrified hikers. He stands ready to get pulled away from job or family, day or night, on a moment’s notice. “Our motto is “Join RMR and see Colorado by headlamp,’” he says. “It’s true, but it’s a tremendous service and a great way to give back.” Demarest hits Broadway, one of Boulder’s main thoroughfares, and turns north, jock eying through the weekend traffic. He listens to the radio as the hiker's description of his surroundings is updated. The hiker is walking out under his own power but can't say exactly which trail he's on. Rescuers have deployed to the head of the Bear Canyon Trail, but Demarest decides to drive farther south to Lower Skunk Canyon. “I’ve got a hunch," he says.
Pressed about the unsettling lack of a command structure, Demarest just grins: “The truth is, we're so darned experienced we don't need it." History backs him up. The weekend before, for instance, a climber fell off a rocky outcrop near Elephant Buttress up in Boulder Canyon. The victim called in the accident on his cell phone, the 911 dispatch paged RMR, and five minutes later the first rescuer was at the base of the climb. Within a half-hour, 2O more volunteers and the group's four- by-four van -- a Swiss Army knife of a vehicle -- arrived with enough rescue, first- aid, and computer mapping equipment to outfit an expedition. Two rescuers scram bled up to the ledge with a first-aid pack, and one stabilized the victim, who had a had injury, while the other scouted an evac route and radioed for a litter and oxygen. Above and below, RMR members fixed ropes, a litter team swiftly assembled, and the injured climber was strapped in, lowered 300 feet, and carried through Boulder Creek a quarter-mile to an ambulance. All told, the victim was evacuated in less than 90 minutes.
While they specialize in high-angle evacs, over the years RMR has found hundreds of lost hikers and led the country in locating wrecked planes. In 54 years of technical operations it has incurred only one serious injury among its rescuers -- a broken leg. “Our most common worker’s comp claim,” Demarest jokes, “is poison ivy.”
Demarest turns on a winding paved road up into the broad tawny meadows at the base of Boulder's Flatirons, beautiful jagged slabs of upthrust sandstone. He jogs up a dirt trail behind some high-end redwood-sided mountain homes. Sure enough, here comes the hiker, looking dazed, his shirt in shreds. But Demarest is too late -- the hiker is already being helped by two RMR rescuers who have somehow beaten Demarest up the trail. The man is shaken up, they say, but unbloodied. He was lucky: A black bear sow had shoved him onto the ground after he'd gotten too close to her cub, looked him in the eyes, and hustled away. "You see," Demarest beams. "They know. Nobody needs to order anybody anywhere.”
Chuck Demarest and his colleagues won’t take orders, don’t wear uniforms, and each year handle more missions than any other volunteer SAR squad in America.
by Peter Heller
When Chuck Demarest’s pager goes off on an Indian Summer Sunday after noon in Boulder, Colorado, he happens to be at a barbecue with 40 other members of the Rocky Mountain Rescue Group. All around Demarest, beepers start beeping, like a scourge of electronic locusts. Plates of potato salad and bratwurst are set down, and men and women dressed in running shoes and T-shirts smile at one another as they trot down the flagstone steps and hop into their vehicles.
The call is no surprise -- RMR, which completes roughly 80 missions a year in and around Boulder County, is one of the busiest volunteer mountain-rescue squads in the nation. But the scene is still a little bizarre. For one thing, none of the rescuers looks like the character played by Sylvester Stallone in Cliffhanger, the 1993 movie about a mountain-rescue team not-so-coincidentaIly named Rocky Mountain Rescue. More than half the people at the party are engineers; most others are researchers and computer programmers. No matter their age -- most of the 63 members hover somewhere between 25 and 30 -- they all look, well, wonkish. Sixty-four-year~old Bill May, for instance, the barbecue host, is rail-thin, sports big metal-framed glasses, and is a retired engineer who wrote the essential book on wilderness rescue, Mountain Search and Rescue Techniques. Dave Hibl, a 49-year- old orthodontist who's helped develop much of the group's gear, including its litters and winches, displays the conservative haircut and mild-mannered earnestness of Clark Kent. And Jenny Paddock, 39, a serious, compact woman with cropped graying hair, happens to be a Boulder police officer and one of the most highly respected search-and-rescue dog handlers in the state. Proverbial Italian stallions they're not.
Even more unnerving is the fact that no one is wearing a uniform, or even a patch, and no one seems to he in charge. There's none of that militarized protocol so common in the crack emergency teams Hollywood loves to confect. “We’re all-volunteer," says Demarest, clearing up the uniform matter. "We don't like to take orders, and we don't need direction. We're like well-ordered ants."
I follow Demarest to his car. At 58, he's strongly built, with steady blue eyes and a sandy mustache going gray. But even as RMR's longest-term active field member, he doesn't seem to fit the preconception of a rescue jock. A Princeton alum who did graduate work at the University of Colorado in nuclear physics and has trained in classical piano all his life. Demarest is a director of venture-capital firm that’s investing in a treatment for Parkinson's disease. As we pile into his car, a sedate Subaru sedan with a cracked windshield he hits the VHF is public-safety radio, which is already crackling with information about an incident in the foothills above town. A hiker has been mauled by a bear but talking to authorities on his cell phone.
Like everything else about Demarest, the Subaru runs counter to what one might expect, but it serves its purpose well. “I’ve got everything I need for a couple of days in the mountains,” he says as we pull out. This includes boots, headlamps, ice axes, a bivy bag, sets of maps, granola bars, radio, and GPS. "I’ve even got the directions for the GPS, in case I get stupid," he says. Fat chance. Rescue attempts in any season are completely second nature to Demarest. He’s been on more than a thousand missions, and he’s seen almost every imaginable scenario. He’s found downed aircraft in the middle of the night during the dead of winter, and he’s down-climbed at dusk onto a ledge above timberline to spend the night with three half-starved and terrified hikers. He stands ready to get pulled away from job or family, day or night, on a moment’s notice. “Our motto is “Join RMR and see Colorado by headlamp,’” he says. “It’s true, but it’s a tremendous service and a great way to give back.” Demarest hits Broadway, one of Boulder’s main thoroughfares, and turns north, jock eying through the weekend traffic. He listens to the radio as the hiker's description of his surroundings is updated. The hiker is walking out under his own power but can't say exactly which trail he's on. Rescuers have deployed to the head of the Bear Canyon Trail, but Demarest decides to drive farther south to Lower Skunk Canyon. “I’ve got a hunch," he says.
Pressed about the unsettling lack of a command structure, Demarest just grins: “The truth is, we're so darned experienced we don't need it." History backs him up. The weekend before, for instance, a climber fell off a rocky outcrop near Elephant Buttress up in Boulder Canyon. The victim called in the accident on his cell phone, the 911 dispatch paged RMR, and five minutes later the first rescuer was at the base of the climb. Within a half-hour, 2O more volunteers and the group's four- by-four van -- a Swiss Army knife of a vehicle -- arrived with enough rescue, first- aid, and computer mapping equipment to outfit an expedition. Two rescuers scram bled up to the ledge with a first-aid pack, and one stabilized the victim, who had a had injury, while the other scouted an evac route and radioed for a litter and oxygen. Above and below, RMR members fixed ropes, a litter team swiftly assembled, and the injured climber was strapped in, lowered 300 feet, and carried through Boulder Creek a quarter-mile to an ambulance. All told, the victim was evacuated in less than 90 minutes.
While they specialize in high-angle evacs, over the years RMR has found hundreds of lost hikers and led the country in locating wrecked planes. In 54 years of technical operations it has incurred only one serious injury among its rescuers -- a broken leg. “Our most common worker’s comp claim,” Demarest jokes, “is poison ivy.”
Demarest turns on a winding paved road up into the broad tawny meadows at the base of Boulder's Flatirons, beautiful jagged slabs of upthrust sandstone. He jogs up a dirt trail behind some high-end redwood-sided mountain homes. Sure enough, here comes the hiker, looking dazed, his shirt in shreds. But Demarest is too late -- the hiker is already being helped by two RMR rescuers who have somehow beaten Demarest up the trail. The man is shaken up, they say, but unbloodied. He was lucky: A black bear sow had shoved him onto the ground after he'd gotten too close to her cub, looked him in the eyes, and hustled away. "You see," Demarest beams. "They know. Nobody needs to order anybody anywhere.”
What happens when your "individual initiative" interferes with mine?
Show me the mediation device, in an "anarchist" society.
Not a bunch of feel-good hokum.
Show me the mediation device, in an "anarchist" society.
Not a bunch of feel-good hokum.
guess no one is reading his many blogs on that other site
if you want to know about anarchism, run away from nessie as fast as you can and find other sources. he's really an authoritarian and conservative libertarian, not an anarchist
for anarchist connections that have nothing to do with this unemployed blowhard, there are plenty out there, so don't rely on nessie whatevery you do
if you want to know about anarchism, run away from nessie as fast as you can and find other sources. he's really an authoritarian and conservative libertarian, not an anarchist
for anarchist connections that have nothing to do with this unemployed blowhard, there are plenty out there, so don't rely on nessie whatevery you do
The discussion was about an "Evening Spokes Council" (whatever that is) related to an upcoming anti-IMF &c event.
My questions were, and are:
"Evening Spokes Council"
1) How does one come to be chosen for this?
2) How is one, once chosen, recalled from this?
3) How is its agenda determined?
4) What, if any, budget does it control, from where does it come, and how does one verify that it is administered without corruption?
**************
I've yet to be convinced that any of these are not valid questions of an ostensibly participatory-democratic organization, whatever its ideological fine print.
The rest of this, so far, is little more than a kettle of red herring across the trail of this very particular issue: how does your group stay in control of its project?
Nessie's as fine an illustration as any of what can go wrong in this kind of low- or no-structure setup. But maybe I'm wrong. Show me the anti-leader-wannabe apparatus, and I'll be happy enough.
Anyone who calls such concerns foolish, uneducated &c, hasn't been at this very long.
My questions were, and are:
"Evening Spokes Council"
1) How does one come to be chosen for this?
2) How is one, once chosen, recalled from this?
3) How is its agenda determined?
4) What, if any, budget does it control, from where does it come, and how does one verify that it is administered without corruption?
**************
I've yet to be convinced that any of these are not valid questions of an ostensibly participatory-democratic organization, whatever its ideological fine print.
The rest of this, so far, is little more than a kettle of red herring across the trail of this very particular issue: how does your group stay in control of its project?
Nessie's as fine an illustration as any of what can go wrong in this kind of low- or no-structure setup. But maybe I'm wrong. Show me the anti-leader-wannabe apparatus, and I'll be happy enough.
Anyone who calls such concerns foolish, uneducated &c, hasn't been at this very long.
>Show me the mediation device, in an "anarchist" society.
It happens very, very rarely, but if you were an anarchist, and you happened to be in the neighborhood, you could see it for yourself. Since you're not an anarchist, or even a friend, it's none of you business.
>he's . . . not an anarchist
An ad hominem is not a rebuttal. It's a way to change the subject, i.e., and intentional attempt to disrupt discourse among anarchists and their friends.
I am not the topic of the thread. If you want to talk about me, please don't be disruptive, do it in the proper thread.
>I've yet to be convinced that any of these are not valid questions of an ostensibly participatory-democratic organization, whatever its ideological fine print.
A participatory-democratic organization is, by definition, participatory. If you're not participating, it doesn't concern you.
These are valid questions for anarchists and their friends to ask each other, off line and face to face. You are neither. You are merely attempting to gather intelligence. We cannot help but wonder for whom. Perhaps you would care to enlighten us.
>how me the anti-leader-wannabe apparatus, and I'll be happy enough.
No doubt you would be happy to be shown as much as possible. Oh, well.
>how does your group stay in control of its project?
This begs the question. We're not *a* group. We are many groups. Some overlap. Some don't. Each group approaches its unique situation in the manner it deems most appropriate. As with non anarchist groups, some stay in control of their projects better than others. It also varies from project to project. If you really, really want to know how it works, infiltrate a group. Be aware, though, that some groups are easier to infiltrate than are others. But you know that. Infiltration is time consuming, too. It's also expensive. That's why you're fishing online, instead.
>Nessie's as fine an illustration as any of what can go wrong in this kind of low- or no-structure setup.
At any given time, I am involved in a number of projects, some ad hoc, some long term. I don't "lead" any of them. I stuff envelopes, I sweep floors, I cook, I drive, I take out the trash, I sort mail, I sell books, I count money, I make phone calls, I mop, I dust, I fold chairs, I shoot video tape, I convey messages, and every once in a very long while, I chase some *sshole out into the street with a baseball bat. That's all I ever do. Leading does not factor in. The very idea is repugnant. Besides, those perceived to be leaders are singled out for persecution. As i learned the hard way, back in the day, they always go after the guy with the bullhorn. The guy with the broom, they don't even notice.
Of all the long term projects in which I am actively involved, the longest is over thirty, another is pushing twelve, and a third is pushing seven. In how many long term projects are you actively involved? How old are they? Just wondering.
No let's get back to the topic.
It happens very, very rarely, but if you were an anarchist, and you happened to be in the neighborhood, you could see it for yourself. Since you're not an anarchist, or even a friend, it's none of you business.
>he's . . . not an anarchist
An ad hominem is not a rebuttal. It's a way to change the subject, i.e., and intentional attempt to disrupt discourse among anarchists and their friends.
I am not the topic of the thread. If you want to talk about me, please don't be disruptive, do it in the proper thread.
>I've yet to be convinced that any of these are not valid questions of an ostensibly participatory-democratic organization, whatever its ideological fine print.
A participatory-democratic organization is, by definition, participatory. If you're not participating, it doesn't concern you.
These are valid questions for anarchists and their friends to ask each other, off line and face to face. You are neither. You are merely attempting to gather intelligence. We cannot help but wonder for whom. Perhaps you would care to enlighten us.
>how me the anti-leader-wannabe apparatus, and I'll be happy enough.
No doubt you would be happy to be shown as much as possible. Oh, well.
>how does your group stay in control of its project?
This begs the question. We're not *a* group. We are many groups. Some overlap. Some don't. Each group approaches its unique situation in the manner it deems most appropriate. As with non anarchist groups, some stay in control of their projects better than others. It also varies from project to project. If you really, really want to know how it works, infiltrate a group. Be aware, though, that some groups are easier to infiltrate than are others. But you know that. Infiltration is time consuming, too. It's also expensive. That's why you're fishing online, instead.
>Nessie's as fine an illustration as any of what can go wrong in this kind of low- or no-structure setup.
At any given time, I am involved in a number of projects, some ad hoc, some long term. I don't "lead" any of them. I stuff envelopes, I sweep floors, I cook, I drive, I take out the trash, I sort mail, I sell books, I count money, I make phone calls, I mop, I dust, I fold chairs, I shoot video tape, I convey messages, and every once in a very long while, I chase some *sshole out into the street with a baseball bat. That's all I ever do. Leading does not factor in. The very idea is repugnant. Besides, those perceived to be leaders are singled out for persecution. As i learned the hard way, back in the day, they always go after the guy with the bullhorn. The guy with the broom, they don't even notice.
Of all the long term projects in which I am actively involved, the longest is over thirty, another is pushing twelve, and a third is pushing seven. In how many long term projects are you actively involved? How old are they? Just wondering.
No let's get back to the topic.
Do you mean to say that this is a secret organization?
Then why are they calling for participants on an online message board?
Oh, and sorry Nessie, you don't get to decide who's on what side.
Then why are they calling for participants on an online message board?
Oh, and sorry Nessie, you don't get to decide who's on what side.
In fact, anarchism does not have effective answers to actual problems related to leadership, or to power delegation/accountability, in human groups.
If it did, we'd have heard them by now.
Instead, it's just the usual blowhard, blowing hard.
If it did, we'd have heard them by now.
Instead, it's just the usual blowhard, blowing hard.
The anarchist movement is not a single organization, but many. Some are secret, some are not. If you have questions specific to the Farragut Squares Collective about this particular set of actions, you'll have to ask them. I can't answer them for you because I'm not a member of the Farragut Squares Collective. Since I'm not, and nothing the actual members are doing negatively impacts me or my comrades, how they conduct this action is none of my business, yours either. I wish them luck and health. Beyond that, they're on their own.
One more time: For whom are you attempting to gather intelligence? Or isn't that any of our business?
One more time: For whom are you attempting to gather intelligence? Or isn't that any of our business?
"The anarchist movement is not a single organization, but many."
My questions are about the event advertized in the first post of this thread. You are the one dragging it off topic.
As for the question about my agency.... my questions are primarily from my own curiosity. I ask them in the open for the benefit of myself and others who may care to read and respond to others' thoughts in a public, anonymous, radical forum. It's called freedom of speech, and conscience, and the freedom to debate ideas openly.
Is there something in that that's not anarchist enough for you?
We know that's not how you run your farm. If you don't like it here, why don't you go back there?
Go enforce yourself there.
My questions are about the event advertized in the first post of this thread. You are the one dragging it off topic.
As for the question about my agency.... my questions are primarily from my own curiosity. I ask them in the open for the benefit of myself and others who may care to read and respond to others' thoughts in a public, anonymous, radical forum. It's called freedom of speech, and conscience, and the freedom to debate ideas openly.
Is there something in that that's not anarchist enough for you?
We know that's not how you run your farm. If you don't like it here, why don't you go back there?
Go enforce yourself there.
How does anyone know who they are?
And how on Earth would one know enough to judge whether to expend effort and resources to work with them, without asking some questions to the effect?
Let alone, let them run around representing "the movement" or whatever, when in fact we don't know who they are, what they stand for, or what they think their rhetoric means (let alone anyone else)?
And how on Earth would one know enough to judge whether to expend effort and resources to work with them, without asking some questions to the effect?
Let alone, let them run around representing "the movement" or whatever, when in fact we don't know who they are, what they stand for, or what they think their rhetoric means (let alone anyone else)?
Of *course* it's only to satisfy your own curiousity. We believe you. No one ever told us that before who didn't mean it. We trust everyone we meet on on the internet. They all have our best interests at heart, even the JTTF.
"I stuff envelopes, I sweep floors, I cook, I drive, I take out the trash, I sort mail, I sell books, I count money, I make phone calls, I mop, I dust, I fold chairs, I shoot video tape, I convey messages, and every once in a very long while, I chase some *sshole out into the street with a baseball bat."
I guess you never heard the story about the agent no one suspected because he (or better yet she) made themself indispensable.
Cops aren't the only ones who don't pay much attention to the janitor. [Which, by the way, strictly speaking, you're wrong about. A cursory glance at history makes that clear.]
If what you're doing is so damn secret, then the internet is no place for an invitation to its organization. And if it's not so very precious-secret, why so uptight about organizational details?
Oh, right, agents.
The personal power of the trusted few in the inner circle has nothing to do with it.
BTW, it's not a very effective security arrangement, either. If you do things that way, only you and the real agents know what you're doing.
I guess you never heard the story about the agent no one suspected because he (or better yet she) made themself indispensable.
Cops aren't the only ones who don't pay much attention to the janitor. [Which, by the way, strictly speaking, you're wrong about. A cursory glance at history makes that clear.]
If what you're doing is so damn secret, then the internet is no place for an invitation to its organization. And if it's not so very precious-secret, why so uptight about organizational details?
Oh, right, agents.
The personal power of the trusted few in the inner circle has nothing to do with it.
BTW, it's not a very effective security arrangement, either. If you do things that way, only you and the real agents know what you're doing.
You said:
"it's only to satisfy your own curiousity."
What about when I said:
"for the benefit of myself and others who may care to read and respond to others' thoughts in a public, anonymous, radical forum. It's called freedom of speech, and conscience, and the freedom to debate ideas openly."
But then, a glance at your site shows that none of that stuff really matters much to you.
To others of us, though, it does. That's why we're here and not there.
If you don't like it here, go back there.
"it's only to satisfy your own curiousity."
What about when I said:
"for the benefit of myself and others who may care to read and respond to others' thoughts in a public, anonymous, radical forum. It's called freedom of speech, and conscience, and the freedom to debate ideas openly."
But then, a glance at your site shows that none of that stuff really matters much to you.
To others of us, though, it does. That's why we're here and not there.
If you don't like it here, go back there.
It's not about me. Remember? It's not about any single individual. That's why our movement is immortal. It's immune to decapitating strikes. The powers that be have been trying to stamp us out for over a century. They always run up against the same problem. They're trying to pin quicksilver to the floor with a fork. Joke's on them. Hahahahahahahahaha.
The questions stand, however you dance around them.
Indeed they do. Take a hint.
When the fish aren't biting, try another fishing hole.
When the fish aren't biting, try another fishing hole.
you said:
"quicksilver to the floor with a fork."
Are you equating your movement to a poisonous substance with no ability to withstand anything?
How provocative.
Tell ya what. Just keep ignoring your leadership issues, and you can keep having a movement you're used to.
It's a fluid phenomenon, that can't be nailed down because it flows around opposition.
In the Great Game of paper/scissors/rock, all three lose out to water.
In the Great Game of paper/scissors/rock, all three lose out to water.
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