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Indybay Feature
Drowning Out Hateful Christian Facists
As Luce and a few hundred youth supporters rallied on the steps of City Hall in San Francisco, behind a line of police and a row of barricades, they were drowned out by protestors chanting, “Religion Is One Thing, Theocracy Is Another! The Christian Right Is Wrong!” and “Battlecry Is Based On Lies, Think For Yourself, Open Your Eyes!”
Protesters in San Francisco gave a fitting welcome to the fundamentalist preacher Ron Luce and his Teen Mania youth ministry on March 23. As Luce and a few hundred youth supporters rallied on the steps of City Hall in San Francisco, behind a line of police and a row of barricades, they were drowned out by protestors chanting, “Religion Is One Thing, Theocracy Is Another! The Christian Right Is Wrong!” and “Battlecry Is Based On Lies, Think For Yourself, Open Your Eyes!”
The fundamentalists came to San Francisco for a two-day youth rally, “Battlecry for a Generation” at AT&T Park baseball stadium, which they expect to draw tens of thousands of youth. Their rally on the steps of City Hall was meant to deliver a message against San Francisco and especially its tolerance of gays and lesbians. "These are the very city hall steps where several months ago ***gay marriages*** were celebrated for the entire world to see," the fundamentalists said in their call for the demonstration
The counter protest was organized in just a few days by World Can’t Wait, Not In Our Name, Code Pink, and Bay Area Coalition for Our Reproductive Rights. The counter rally was a colorful mix of representatives of the gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgender community, progressive religious forces, pro-choice and anti-war political activists, atheists, politicians and others. There was a large banner from World Can’t Wait that said, “No to Woman-Hating Anti-Gay Christian Fascist Theocracy!” A demonstrator carried a sign that read, “Hitler started with Youth Rallies.” Another sign said, “I moved to San Francisco to Get Away From People Like You.”
Just before the rally by the fundamentalists, the counter protestors organized their own rally on the steps of City Hall. San Francisco Supervisor Tom Ammiano opened the rally saying, “We have to take them seriously because if we don’t stand up, if we don’t speak out and if we are not counted, they could win.” Earlier in the week the San Francisco Supervisors passed a resolution condemning the fundamentalist rally for spreading hate of gay people and others.
A speaker representing World Can’t Wait read from the organization’s call, “Your government is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule.”
Other speakers included, Bay Area Coalition for Our Reproductive Rights, Sister Bernie Galvin, Not in Our Name, Code Pink, Howard Wallace of the San Francisco Labor Council and Pride at Work, The anti-war ANSWER Coalition, American Atheists and the Pastor of the Church of Natural Grace.
California State Assemblyman Mark Leno, author of the Gay Marriage bill that was vetoed last year by California’s Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger ended the rally saying of the fundamentalists, “They’re loud, they’re obnoxious, they’re disgusting and they should get out of San Francisco.”
Ron Luce claims that the purpose of his movement is to protect youth from a culture of violence, drugs and permissive sexuality, citing MTV and video games as some of the biggest problems facing youth today. But what Luce is really aiming to do is create a political force of youth trained in a narrow and hateful brand of Christianity based on a literal interpretation of the bible.
While making a particular point of denouncing homosexuality, Luce attacks all sex outside of marriage and even masturbation. "If it's any sexual interaction outside of marriage it's not right,” Luce says. “And the Bible is also clear that marriage is between a man and a woman and so that's God's instruction book for us." Of masturbation, Luce says, “Encouraging teens to do this actually helps to insure their bondage to sexual issues!” His web site also attacks the right to abortion and the teaching of evolution.
And the aim of Luce and other Christian fascists is not just to win converts for this but to impose it on U.S. society as a whole. A few days after the San Francisco rally, Luce will be a featured speaker at a major rally for Vision America, a group headed by Rev. Rick Scarborough, a close associate of former House Speaker Tom Delay. Scarborough is the author of a booklet titled "In Defense of…Mixing Church and State." It argues that the belief that the Constitution provides for separation of church and state is "a lie introduced by Satan and fostered by the courts."
The fundamentalists came to San Francisco for a two-day youth rally, “Battlecry for a Generation” at AT&T Park baseball stadium, which they expect to draw tens of thousands of youth. Their rally on the steps of City Hall was meant to deliver a message against San Francisco and especially its tolerance of gays and lesbians. "These are the very city hall steps where several months ago ***gay marriages*** were celebrated for the entire world to see," the fundamentalists said in their call for the demonstration
The counter protest was organized in just a few days by World Can’t Wait, Not In Our Name, Code Pink, and Bay Area Coalition for Our Reproductive Rights. The counter rally was a colorful mix of representatives of the gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgender community, progressive religious forces, pro-choice and anti-war political activists, atheists, politicians and others. There was a large banner from World Can’t Wait that said, “No to Woman-Hating Anti-Gay Christian Fascist Theocracy!” A demonstrator carried a sign that read, “Hitler started with Youth Rallies.” Another sign said, “I moved to San Francisco to Get Away From People Like You.”
Just before the rally by the fundamentalists, the counter protestors organized their own rally on the steps of City Hall. San Francisco Supervisor Tom Ammiano opened the rally saying, “We have to take them seriously because if we don’t stand up, if we don’t speak out and if we are not counted, they could win.” Earlier in the week the San Francisco Supervisors passed a resolution condemning the fundamentalist rally for spreading hate of gay people and others.
A speaker representing World Can’t Wait read from the organization’s call, “Your government is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule.”
Other speakers included, Bay Area Coalition for Our Reproductive Rights, Sister Bernie Galvin, Not in Our Name, Code Pink, Howard Wallace of the San Francisco Labor Council and Pride at Work, The anti-war ANSWER Coalition, American Atheists and the Pastor of the Church of Natural Grace.
California State Assemblyman Mark Leno, author of the Gay Marriage bill that was vetoed last year by California’s Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger ended the rally saying of the fundamentalists, “They’re loud, they’re obnoxious, they’re disgusting and they should get out of San Francisco.”
Ron Luce claims that the purpose of his movement is to protect youth from a culture of violence, drugs and permissive sexuality, citing MTV and video games as some of the biggest problems facing youth today. But what Luce is really aiming to do is create a political force of youth trained in a narrow and hateful brand of Christianity based on a literal interpretation of the bible.
While making a particular point of denouncing homosexuality, Luce attacks all sex outside of marriage and even masturbation. "If it's any sexual interaction outside of marriage it's not right,” Luce says. “And the Bible is also clear that marriage is between a man and a woman and so that's God's instruction book for us." Of masturbation, Luce says, “Encouraging teens to do this actually helps to insure their bondage to sexual issues!” His web site also attacks the right to abortion and the teaching of evolution.
And the aim of Luce and other Christian fascists is not just to win converts for this but to impose it on U.S. society as a whole. A few days after the San Francisco rally, Luce will be a featured speaker at a major rally for Vision America, a group headed by Rev. Rick Scarborough, a close associate of former House Speaker Tom Delay. Scarborough is the author of a booklet titled "In Defense of…Mixing Church and State." It argues that the belief that the Constitution provides for separation of church and state is "a lie introduced by Satan and fostered by the courts."
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Screaming at young girls who are religious - who are the HATEFUL people here? Being proud of drowning out someone because you don't agree? How is that tolerant? Or diverse?
I clearly remember the counter demonstrators stopping the chant that was started before "Racist, Sexist, Anti-Gay Christian Fascists go away" and changed it to "Your Battlecry is based on lies. Think for yourself, open your eyes" and "Religion is one thing, THEOCRACY is another. the Christian Right is WRONG" knowing that a lot of the youth that were there were only there from what they were told and telling telling them they are not attacking their right to be Christians, but that people like Bush and his administration are using Christianity in the WRONG way...to justify MURDER of thousands and thousands in Iraq and looking for more mass murder in other places. Most of the battlecry youth haven't even read the bible. I was there, I asked and the only explanation for most of their beliefs was "well...God says..." yes...very smart responses, they really know how to think for themselves.
Good for the counter demonstrators! I'm behind ya! I know you are good people.
Good for the counter demonstrators! I'm behind ya! I know you are good people.
Is a symbol of rights and rights denied. Sometimes more, sometimes less.
This is the city where an elected official (and a pretty wonderful human being, who happened to be gay) was killed in cold blood by a conservative religious elected official who had his reasons.
Reasons which rightwing religious extremists wouldn't be entirely uncomfortable with, even if they would never do anything like this elected criminal.
This is the city where an elected official (and a pretty wonderful human being, who happened to be gay) was killed in cold blood by a conservative religious elected official who had his reasons.
Reasons which rightwing religious extremists wouldn't be entirely uncomfortable with, even if they would never do anything like this elected criminal.
They's jes good wise Godly people, like Margyooreet hyar
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176
"Most of the battlecry youth haven't even read the bible." This statement is not true. The battlecry campaign was for Bible-reading Christians. There was Scripture read during the rally as well.
And as for the "youth not thinking for themselves", the whole point of the campaign was to make teens aware the the media (such as MTV) tries to control their generation. I don't know if you've read the stats, but MTV makes a lot of money every year just by telling the youth of the nation what to wear and how to act.
Standing outside City Hall was not symbolic to being against gay marriage. The youth that were there were simply trying to tell the gay (or maybe even non-gay) protesters that they love them. That they bring the message of Christ which is love and peace.
There is no hate behind the BattleCry campaign. Not to gays or anyone. It is simply rallying against the very thing you think the youth should be against- not thinking for youself. Like not being influenced by the media and whatever it says.
I'm also curious as to why a lot of people are mentioning the Bush administration. There was no mention during the rally about the president and his beliefs.
I'm sorry if you think this rally was for a bunch of hypocritical fanatics. It was a rally of young followers of Christ who are standing up to say "we refuse to be influenced by the media." We profess a message of love.
I am fully aware the Christian groups in the past have been hateful and I'm sorry for that. But I thought I'd let you know our message was one of love.
And as for the "youth not thinking for themselves", the whole point of the campaign was to make teens aware the the media (such as MTV) tries to control their generation. I don't know if you've read the stats, but MTV makes a lot of money every year just by telling the youth of the nation what to wear and how to act.
Standing outside City Hall was not symbolic to being against gay marriage. The youth that were there were simply trying to tell the gay (or maybe even non-gay) protesters that they love them. That they bring the message of Christ which is love and peace.
There is no hate behind the BattleCry campaign. Not to gays or anyone. It is simply rallying against the very thing you think the youth should be against- not thinking for youself. Like not being influenced by the media and whatever it says.
I'm also curious as to why a lot of people are mentioning the Bush administration. There was no mention during the rally about the president and his beliefs.
I'm sorry if you think this rally was for a bunch of hypocritical fanatics. It was a rally of young followers of Christ who are standing up to say "we refuse to be influenced by the media." We profess a message of love.
I am fully aware the Christian groups in the past have been hateful and I'm sorry for that. But I thought I'd let you know our message was one of love.
Why are the only people who try to suppress a person's freedom of speech hailing from the Left? Sure, folks may disagree with them, but it is their right to speak. Isn't it? Please feel free to censor me if I've got the whole freedom of speech, assembly and religion thingy wrong.
Freedom of speech doesnt mean that nobody is allowed to criticize you or protest against you for what your say. Freedom of speech allows both antiwar protests and right-wing counter protests. It likewise allows Christian fundamentalists to protest and those worried about theocracy to counterprotest. "Freedom of speech" is all to often thrown around as a call to silence speech. When Libya killed scores of protesters protesting over Danish cartoons at the Italian embassy papers worldwide essentially described Libya's dictatorship as protecting free speech when the protests were only half about the cartoons and half an excuse for people to protest Libyan totalitarianism. The world press chose to make free speech be about silencing a protest rather than allowing a protest since the press hates Muslims (and wanted to spin the cartoon story to build even more hate for Muslisms). Likewise you choose to make a counter protest against the religious right be about silencing their free speech when it would seem that both sides had and should have an equal right to voice their views.
Who do you think will be fighting Bush's dirty little war(s) in years to come? Your obediant little troops that's who.
http://www.acquiretheevidence.com/
http://www.acquiretheevidence.com/
Okay, so you call us close minded facists. We are not. Is a math teacher close minded for not accepting 5 as the answer for What is 2+2? No. She is just trying to correct the student so that the student wont go througfh life think 2+2=5. Ron Luce is trying to save MY GENERATION from destruction and no matter what you do, he wont stop. I WONT STOP!!!!! I am going to the Honor Academy and I am going to help him save this generation from self destruction. You cant possibly think that it's right for 40% of my generation to self harm 1500 of my generation to commit suicide YEARLY and for something like 8000 of to contract an STD DAILY. You cant possibly agree with MTV's promotion of premarital sex, Violence, Drug and alcohol abuse etc; Christ and the values of the Bible are the ONLY thing that can possibly change these things. I am sick of seeing my generation falling into the hands of the media and a corrupt world. I wont just sit back and watch it happen and neither will ron luce, nor willany of the THOUSANDS of BattleCry Coalition Members. You cant stop us. We are in our legal rights. America was founded on basis of Christianity. The seperation of church and state said that the state could not govern the church but the church can have a part in the state. What would our fore fathers say if they were to come and see America as it is today? George washington would probably go into a rampage ! AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED TO BE OPEN MINDED, BECAUSE IF THE BRAINS FALL OUT OF A COUNTRY, ONLY THE STUPID ARE LEFT RUNNING IT!
AND FOR ANOTHER THING, YOU HIPPOCRIT, YOU YOURSELF ARE A FACIST, TRYING TO RID AMERICA OF CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIAN VALUES, SOUNDS LIKE WHAT HITLER DID WITH THE JEWS DOESNT IT?
AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAY YOU ARE ACCEPTING OF EVERYONE, YOU MIGHT WANT TO START LIVING IT BECAUSE YOU ARE FAR FROM BEING ACCEPTING OF EVERYONE, FAR FROM ACCEPTING THE TRUTH! YOU ARE JUST AS CLOSED MINDED AS YOU THINK WE ARE BUT NOT WANTING TO EVEN CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE ARE RIGHT! i would post more but I have to go to class.
AND FOR ANOTHER THING, YOU HIPPOCRIT, YOU YOURSELF ARE A FACIST, TRYING TO RID AMERICA OF CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIAN VALUES, SOUNDS LIKE WHAT HITLER DID WITH THE JEWS DOESNT IT?
AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAY YOU ARE ACCEPTING OF EVERYONE, YOU MIGHT WANT TO START LIVING IT BECAUSE YOU ARE FAR FROM BEING ACCEPTING OF EVERYONE, FAR FROM ACCEPTING THE TRUTH! YOU ARE JUST AS CLOSED MINDED AS YOU THINK WE ARE BUT NOT WANTING TO EVEN CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE ARE RIGHT! i would post more but I have to go to class.
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(1.) stake
(2.) thumbscrew
(2.) thumbscrew
And hateful of bigotry.
Intolerant of being characterized as outsiders in our own city while you ram your narrow viewpoint down our throats, in the hope of silencing us. Some of us have called your moral posturing "fascist". I don't have a problem with that.
The Fascist right wing has attempted to take over the Supreme Court, and stack the Congress with it's neocon one-party system, and prevent any third parties from any say or any stake in what's going on. You're forcing non-Judeo Christian kids to say "under God" to your God in schools. Your leaders are socking away all their corporate war profits and buying up every media outlet they can lay their hands on. Your "compassionate conservatives" leave the people of New Orleans to die, and then grab everything they can get their stinking mitts on from people who have nothing left. Now THAT's hateful.
And I'll say it again: FASCIST. Truth hurts.
Intolerant of being characterized as outsiders in our own city while you ram your narrow viewpoint down our throats, in the hope of silencing us. Some of us have called your moral posturing "fascist". I don't have a problem with that.
The Fascist right wing has attempted to take over the Supreme Court, and stack the Congress with it's neocon one-party system, and prevent any third parties from any say or any stake in what's going on. You're forcing non-Judeo Christian kids to say "under God" to your God in schools. Your leaders are socking away all their corporate war profits and buying up every media outlet they can lay their hands on. Your "compassionate conservatives" leave the people of New Orleans to die, and then grab everything they can get their stinking mitts on from people who have nothing left. Now THAT's hateful.
And I'll say it again: FASCIST. Truth hurts.
Hmmm....
Compare these hateful theocrats in their fury:
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To this peace seeking open minded kind soul:
!["Free]()
Good job showing your true colors.
You stay classy, San Francisco.
I notice you didn't use the picture of one our wonderful Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to make your point. Trying to show how open-minded you are?
That kid in the other picture could just as well be at a festival of Moonies. Yeah he's peaceful. Too peaceful.
That kid in the other picture could just as well be at a festival of Moonies. Yeah he's peaceful. Too peaceful.
This is too Grace who's article titled hi. I just wanted to say thank you for your blog. That is an amazingly wrote article. I attended battlecry. I am 15 years old and it makes me sick seeing the way our world is reacting to christians trying to show love to the others around them. The media wants world peace, no fighting. Well to be honest with all of you, its through God that you will achive that. There is no way that any of that will happen without God. The protesting at city hall was not to say we hate gays and lesbians or anything of that sort. We simply wanted to show our un-dying love for you like jesus' un-dying love for you, and you go and throw it back in our faces protesting against us. Excuse me! I believe this is a free country and how dare you criticize us when all we wanted to do was go and love on you, bring teens to God, help them, and worship the Lord. The christian religion does not believe in hurting others or discriminating others. So if someone is doing that and calling themselves a christian then do not look to them as a christian example. Too all you people who are protesting against us, you need God.
He loves you more than anyone and no matter what you do he wont stop loving you. So it sounds like you need to fix up your lives and stop trying to stop us from holding more events like battlecry, because wheather or not you may like it or not, the christian religion is only going to get bigger faster and faster everyday.
Stop your protesting and complaining because you are trying to stand up to those 25000 people who went to battlecry and the ones that go to church and couldnt attend battlecry also. Remember that 25000 and plus were only teenagers in the bay area, not including parents and elder people and others throughout california, so the odds are our generation is only going to grow in christ and help the world one day at a time.
Thank you.
God Bless Every Single One Of You.
He loves you more than anyone and no matter what you do he wont stop loving you. So it sounds like you need to fix up your lives and stop trying to stop us from holding more events like battlecry, because wheather or not you may like it or not, the christian religion is only going to get bigger faster and faster everyday.
Stop your protesting and complaining because you are trying to stand up to those 25000 people who went to battlecry and the ones that go to church and couldnt attend battlecry also. Remember that 25000 and plus were only teenagers in the bay area, not including parents and elder people and others throughout california, so the odds are our generation is only going to grow in christ and help the world one day at a time.
Thank you.
God Bless Every Single One Of You.
That while your faith may work for you and be what you need, it may not be the answer for everyone else. As you grow up and meet different people you'll understand this better.
We must always stand up for what we think is right, even if we disagree. To tell people to "stop protesting and complaining" is to deny them their thoughts and sense of what is right. Forget about how they say it, what they are saying is that the are not happy with being told one thing when they know from their experience that something else is going on.
We will will never all be under the same religion, all believing in God and all be in the same church. That is a denial of the richness of many different cultures and concepts.
I hope that's not what you're wishing for, because the world is not going to be a very nice place if you get it.
We must always stand up for what we think is right, even if we disagree. To tell people to "stop protesting and complaining" is to deny them their thoughts and sense of what is right. Forget about how they say it, what they are saying is that the are not happy with being told one thing when they know from their experience that something else is going on.
We will will never all be under the same religion, all believing in God and all be in the same church. That is a denial of the richness of many different cultures and concepts.
I hope that's not what you're wishing for, because the world is not going to be a very nice place if you get it.
I was once pro-choice and a self-described liberal. One day, I attended a debate between a pro-life woman from some organization I had not previously heard of and a woman from NOW, an organization I had admired. Some pro-life students were passing out hand-outs when I walked in and nobody, not one person, contested what they said (I mean, about how old "fetuses" are when they can still be legally aborted, for example). Their argument consisted of "Fetuses arn't babies" which I found to be illogical since the hand-outs were discussing partial-birth abortions where fetuses are literally 9 months old. I mean to say that I see it as unreasonable to call a fetus "not human" on the day before they are born. And using that type of reasoning, one is able to "progress" backwards to establish the right a child/fetus to his or her own life.
But even this didn't faze me. It didn't change my mind, I mean. What changed it for me was that I noticed that the NOW's spokeswoman's answers and concerns were all about herself--that the reasons to abort a child seemed to be entirely selfish whereas I noticed quite the opposite in other spokeswoman. And then, a life-changing thing happend: feeling that the pro-choice argument was losing ground and being pro-choice myself, I raised my hand and stood up when called upon and asked the NOW spokeswoman a question. She ignored my question. Looking back on it, I wonder if she thought that I was "pro-life" and therefore not worth her time. But when I had stood up, I was pro-choice. I believed in the so-called "right to choose" and that was how I voted. But when I sat down, I was no longer "pro-choice."
I probably didn't exactly become a strong "pro-lifer" until I looked further into the science and reasoning behind their arguments, but this debate changed my mind in a permanent way and effected the way I have lived my own life.
Also, on another note, don't be afraid to stand up and speak out if you are young. And do not mind it when people use lines like, "when you are older" or "when you've lived through what I have" or other such exclamations. These people are looking for ways to offhandedly dismiss what you have to say without addressing the issues you are raising. It is a lot easier for them.
Anyway, thank you all for posting your opinions. It is always good to see places where both sides are being presented!
But even this didn't faze me. It didn't change my mind, I mean. What changed it for me was that I noticed that the NOW's spokeswoman's answers and concerns were all about herself--that the reasons to abort a child seemed to be entirely selfish whereas I noticed quite the opposite in other spokeswoman. And then, a life-changing thing happend: feeling that the pro-choice argument was losing ground and being pro-choice myself, I raised my hand and stood up when called upon and asked the NOW spokeswoman a question. She ignored my question. Looking back on it, I wonder if she thought that I was "pro-life" and therefore not worth her time. But when I had stood up, I was pro-choice. I believed in the so-called "right to choose" and that was how I voted. But when I sat down, I was no longer "pro-choice."
I probably didn't exactly become a strong "pro-lifer" until I looked further into the science and reasoning behind their arguments, but this debate changed my mind in a permanent way and effected the way I have lived my own life.
Also, on another note, don't be afraid to stand up and speak out if you are young. And do not mind it when people use lines like, "when you are older" or "when you've lived through what I have" or other such exclamations. These people are looking for ways to offhandedly dismiss what you have to say without addressing the issues you are raising. It is a lot easier for them.
Anyway, thank you all for posting your opinions. It is always good to see places where both sides are being presented!
And to me, you changing you mind and growing into a new perspective on birth is accomodated by a pro choice argument. You say it yourself...it changed the way you live your life. Would you deny others to right to grow in their undertstanding of how they want to manage their fertility? I have always been pro choice and I have had abortions and my understanding of what those abortions mean, how they worked on me and produced the "me" that i am now, continues to change and deepen...growth in understanding is a result of change. So, my position has changed as well, not in the same direction as yours, but ...you get my drift.
"Okay, so you call us close minded facists. We are not."
"AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED TO BE OPEN MINDED"
Sounds like you're completely contradicting yourself. The problem is that you and others like you are actually the ones ruining our generation. Forcing religion on others is not right and will never be the solution to any of the "destruction" occurring. I do, of course, respect your right to express your views, just like I respect the rights of others to oppose your views. It would seem that you guys can dish it out, but you can't take it. If you don't like others disagreeing with you, then maybe you should just stay home and watch FOX News next time.
"AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED TO BE OPEN MINDED"
Sounds like you're completely contradicting yourself. The problem is that you and others like you are actually the ones ruining our generation. Forcing religion on others is not right and will never be the solution to any of the "destruction" occurring. I do, of course, respect your right to express your views, just like I respect the rights of others to oppose your views. It would seem that you guys can dish it out, but you can't take it. If you don't like others disagreeing with you, then maybe you should just stay home and watch FOX News next time.
Notice that the so called "facist" didnt respond to the violence and the insults. why is it that you critize ron luces group so harshly when maybe you should look at the lives lived by the ones trying to silence them. Ron Luce is 100% right in his beliefs. when more people believed and lived by what the bible said our world wasnt in such trouble. 35% of the people in control of the world now believe and look at how low our media, music, movies, tv shows have sunk. how high the Std, abortion, sucide, and violence rates are climbing. The teen generation of today is only at 4% so imagin how bad the world is about to get if someone doesnt do something. even if you dont believe in God or any of what ron luce is saying i think you can agree that you dont want your kids, or grandkids to grow up in a world that isnt even safe for them to step outside the door for fear they might never come back or the things that they will see and hear. Maybe instead of just trying to silence those who have an opinion you should listen and think about your loved ones and your family that hasnt even been born yet and what they are gonna have to deal with because of the lousy choices being made by a corrupt generation
And what part of the Bible are you referring to?
When God was smiting people left and right in the old testament covering people in boils and destroying whole cities? The slavery condoned in Leviticus was dandy. There's a whole lot of good times in Leviticus. Maybe it's the flogging and crucifixion of christ you refer to? The apocalypse was a heartwarming section of the bible that all believers truely look forward to.
Maybe you are referring to those happy Christian times of the inquisition or the crusades. Maybe you mean the times good American Christians were slaughtering native Americans or enslaving Africans.
As for your "corrupt generation" theories, you really should be more worried about the attocities carried out in our names as US citizens. Wars with no foreseeable end provoking huge swaths of people across this planet, making enemies for generations to come, torture, extraordinary renditions, enemy combatants with no rights (some US citizens), the President/Emperor thinking he can spy on every American as he pleases. Corporate greed. Pollution. These are the things destroying this country. Instead you are worried about sex and gay people.
When God was smiting people left and right in the old testament covering people in boils and destroying whole cities? The slavery condoned in Leviticus was dandy. There's a whole lot of good times in Leviticus. Maybe it's the flogging and crucifixion of christ you refer to? The apocalypse was a heartwarming section of the bible that all believers truely look forward to.
Maybe you are referring to those happy Christian times of the inquisition or the crusades. Maybe you mean the times good American Christians were slaughtering native Americans or enslaving Africans.
As for your "corrupt generation" theories, you really should be more worried about the attocities carried out in our names as US citizens. Wars with no foreseeable end provoking huge swaths of people across this planet, making enemies for generations to come, torture, extraordinary renditions, enemy combatants with no rights (some US citizens), the President/Emperor thinking he can spy on every American as he pleases. Corporate greed. Pollution. These are the things destroying this country. Instead you are worried about sex and gay people.
Yeah i see your point the bible is full of stories of grusome hatred but its there to serve a point. most are acts of man or God punishing man for his evil. and yes christains are looking forward to the appocolypse because we wont have to put up with the worlds garbadge anymore so yes i am looking forward to no more pain and disgust call me crazy but i am. and im not saying that everything i believe is perfect but it is true. its the little things that started it all like the media and things i mentioned before. think about your grandparents when they were kids some of the things that we today let slide people would have been disgusted with or punished. in the 50's and 60's the violence rates werent as high, people actually wore clothes that were decent and some of the other wordly garbadge that we put up with day to day was unheard of. are you honestly ok with the way society is turning out? maybe you are and i am sorry for that but maybe you should read more into the appocolypse thing everything that was predicted is happening and the way the world is now its only gonna get worse. the hurricanes, earthquakes, war in iraq and even small things like the divinci code are of no suprise to me and i only imagine worse to come. more and more people are gonna die not believeing the truth and its their enterity im worried about. so yes we are speaking out against things like sex of marriage and gays because the bible says its wrong and the more people who hear the truth the better.
Thanks for confirming your bigotry. This is why we are right to call you and the BattleCry people intolerant. Even Jesus Christ would be ashamed of what you all are doing in his name.
how is speaking the truth bigotry??? thats what i would like for you to tell me
That is the truth according to whom? Those who brainwashed you into blindly and uncritically believing their interpretation of a book?
Learn to think for yourself instead of letting fear lead you through life.
Learn to think for yourself instead of letting fear lead you through life.
Ok so why do you think amanda is living by fear if she lives by a book? her life and many others who choose to believe that has a purpose. they dont live for themselves but something greater, nobler. i personally dont live my life that way but can respect what she is saying and doing. shes standing up for something which is more than you can say for yourselves. all your messages seem to be filled with anger and hate when she is just trying to make you understand something that is important to her and millions of other people. it doesnt matter how long and loud you yell cuz when it comes time for you to die your gonna being staring in the face of God and he will send you staight to hell b/c you rejected him when you knew the truth all along. i may not be as in depth in my faith as i should be but i can plainly tell right from wrong.
The bible is a hate rag full of myths that serve to instill 'the fear of god' into people.
Think of Leviticus.
Slavery, homophobia, ect. Is this OK?
Fuck any god that endorses such nonsense
Think of Leviticus.
Slavery, homophobia, ect. Is this OK?
Fuck any god that endorses such nonsense
If my neighbor stands in his yard and screams at me and refuses to stop don't I have the right to blast music to drown him out or do I have to take his crap?
"The bible is a hate rag full of myths that serve to instill 'the fear of god' into people.
Think of Leviticus.
Slavery, homophobia, ect. Is this OK?
Fuck any god that endorses such nonsense"
************************************************************************
"The Bible" is a large collection of multiple writers who spanned more than two millenia.
I would careful to dismiss out of hand any work of literature which is so diverse and antiquated. Is it racist and homophobic? Of course. What piece of literature over 1000+ years old isn't? Besides the racist, warmongering and homophobic sections, there are also some powerful and relatively progressive instructions on how live out justice and mercy. Pretty advanced concepts for the times when they were written.
Personally, I take each "book" on it's own merits and then try to place them in context of the other writings and the time and culture it was written in. There are actually a lot of good things in there, but most people choose to ignore these parts. There are instructions about showing mercy to the foreigner (ethnic minorities) in your country (the Torah is full of these instructions); also, specifc instructions for treating the earth gently including crop rotation and sustainable agricultural practices; Jesus condemned the '"money changers" (capitalists) who were ripping off people who had traveled from long distances, flipped over their tables and chased them out of the temple area! In Revelations, the writer predicts that "heaven" will include people from every tribe and nation and he also prophesies that God will "destroy those who destroy the Earth."
The problem is that most of these "born-again" types disregard these teachings. They highlight what they like, just like the previous poster highlights what he/she doesn't like. I encourage people to read scriptures ("The Bible") for themselves and then put things in context rather than take things literally.
Think of Leviticus.
Slavery, homophobia, ect. Is this OK?
Fuck any god that endorses such nonsense"
************************************************************************
"The Bible" is a large collection of multiple writers who spanned more than two millenia.
I would careful to dismiss out of hand any work of literature which is so diverse and antiquated. Is it racist and homophobic? Of course. What piece of literature over 1000+ years old isn't? Besides the racist, warmongering and homophobic sections, there are also some powerful and relatively progressive instructions on how live out justice and mercy. Pretty advanced concepts for the times when they were written.
Personally, I take each "book" on it's own merits and then try to place them in context of the other writings and the time and culture it was written in. There are actually a lot of good things in there, but most people choose to ignore these parts. There are instructions about showing mercy to the foreigner (ethnic minorities) in your country (the Torah is full of these instructions); also, specifc instructions for treating the earth gently including crop rotation and sustainable agricultural practices; Jesus condemned the '"money changers" (capitalists) who were ripping off people who had traveled from long distances, flipped over their tables and chased them out of the temple area! In Revelations, the writer predicts that "heaven" will include people from every tribe and nation and he also prophesies that God will "destroy those who destroy the Earth."
The problem is that most of these "born-again" types disregard these teachings. They highlight what they like, just like the previous poster highlights what he/she doesn't like. I encourage people to read scriptures ("The Bible") for themselves and then put things in context rather than take things literally.
I would just like to point out that if you are a true Christian, you don't hate people no matter what, but you can hate what people do. The Bible says God loves all, and he does, the Bible also says that God hates evil. Homosexuality is detestable to God (Leviticus 18:22). Just because teens who say they are against things like that does not, by no means mean that they hate the homosexuals, they hate the sin, just as God does. To be honest I am really tired of Homosexuals and all you other people (sorry I don't mean to single out one group) getting offended every time I or any other Christian state a belief. No matter what you think right now, one day you will relize that Jesus is Lord. Christians desrve our rights just like any other group.
Ashleigh
And by the way every teen who attends Battle Cry is thinking for themselves. This generation will not stand by and watch as this world destroys itself.
Ashleigh
And by the way every teen who attends Battle Cry is thinking for themselves. This generation will not stand by and watch as this world destroys itself.
Are you insane?! That rally had NOTHING to do with hating gays! You're talking like a mad-man! You sound like the world is out to get you and you've got all the blame on the Christians. Quit being an idiot. The Christians are a peaceful group of people who simply want to voice their opinions. If you can go saying that killing unborn babies is wrong, then the Christians have a right to speaking out against stuff that ends up hurting people anyways, whether their opinions are right or wrong. None of those Christians hurt anyone there. They aren't trying to hurt anyone. If you don't like it, then go home and turn on some music. They have a right to free speech.
thank you! that is all i have to say. Thank you!
you have showed christians all over the world how many people still need to be saved by jesus christ, today! freedom of religion and freedom of speech are what everyone in America has,correct? well the battlecry teens were just letting the world know. how wonderful their God is, his miricles and love. How Great is our God! How about yours? they aren't shoving Christ down your thoats or telling you who to believe in. But why they believe in Jesus Christ son of God!
"Hateful Christians" you may say but loving Family I say. no matter what the world may do to try and stop my loving family, we have a greater strenght on our side. God!
so go on believing what ever you want. but when you mess with my Family you mess with the Father! He's like a lion and we are his pride! shepard and sheep.
so once again Thank You!
and remember Jesus Loves You this is what the bible says,not me.
id love to know how that protester came to believe that christians are anti women im christian im a woman and im going to battle cry in new york in about two weeks
So I only read a few of the comments, because there are so many. But from what I'm hearing is that some people feel that getting help from a book is idiocracy, as well that Christians are anti gay. I am Kelsey I believe in God, I read the bible, as well my brother whom I love is gay. Mk, the other day my church did a message entirely on the bible stating if you were to make a movie about all the bible stories it would be rated beyond X. The bible is full of knowledge, history, death, love, sex, violence, mercy, murder, miracles, battles, compassion, etc. So why shouldn't I read it when I need help on a problem it covers everything, as well I just read it for sure entertainment. One thing I learned from the bible is ALL SIN IS EQUAL IN THE EYES OF GOD. So if being homosexual is a sin, it is seen in God's eyes the same as lying. Think on that. I agree on the guy that said something about how people seem to be more interested in gay issues rather then environmental issues. God created the earth for us to delight in and appreciate. So why doesn't ever one just do that. STOP replying with angry comments and take your angry out on the trash on the side of the road. After take a nice bike ride or walk to a local mountain and sit on this mountain and gaze at God's creation. THANK YU!
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