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undercover cops at immigrant rights march?
who are these guys that came to friday's anti-HR4437 march in santa cruz? why did the guy with the video camera refuse to identify himself? why where the two middle-aged, athletically built white men staying by themselves, not talking with anyone and giving glances to anyone taking pictures of them? who were the two people that these two men walked off with at the end? why did they keep looking back when a group of protesters were walking in their direction? were there 4 undercover cops present? if so, who? why? who ordered it? does holding signs make them infiltrators? hasn't santa cruz seen enough of this?
it's past time that we keep track of all police presence at every political event. they cannot be trusted.
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Why didn't you or someone simply walk up to them or one of them and ask who they are. Instead you wait after the fact, print your pics and assumption that they are "SPYING". What if they are just two middle-aged, athletically built white men attending the march. I would look at somebody to if I did not know them and they walked up and took my picture. I would be turning around looking at whose following me, especially in the Beach Flats area. In fact I would feel, oh I don't know, maybe SPIED ON.
One more thing, if they were cops they are in public, there is no expectation of privacy.
What a load of crap! I know this will be deleted. Not all of us at UCSC are idiots.
One more thing, if they were cops they are in public, there is no expectation of privacy.
What a load of crap! I know this will be deleted. Not all of us at UCSC are idiots.
a friend of mine asked the guy taking the video (multiple times) who he was taking the video for and he did not respond.
the fact that these guys were white and middle-aged wasn't the big issue.. but things just add up. this is santa cruz... after going to protests for a while you start to get an idea of what average protesters look like... and they generally don't look like these guys.
the fact that these guys were white and middle-aged wasn't the big issue.. but things just add up. this is santa cruz... after going to protests for a while you start to get an idea of what average protesters look like... and they generally don't look like these guys.
I saw them, too. I was kind of wondering why they were there also because they weren't listening to any of the speakers. During that time I overheard them doing imitations of gay people when they were talking to each other. Pretty weird if you ask me.
If you are a cop, why don't you have the balls to show up in a uniform? These people were peaceful and demonstrated that when they interacted with an officer on the parade route headed to beach flats. My guess is that these guys are (illegal) spies for the republiKKKans who cooked up this bill in the first place.
If you are a cop, why don't you have the balls to show up in a uniform? These people were peaceful and demonstrated that when they interacted with an officer on the parade route headed to beach flats. My guess is that these guys are (illegal) spies for the republiKKKans who cooked up this bill in the first place.
I remember feeling uncomfortable by the presence of the people pictured above.
In addition to (what appear to be) undercover cops who filmed the demonstration, the Santa Cruz Police Department was also filming the people in the demonstration.
![camera_3-17-06.jpg"]()
I saw a police officer turn the camera inside his police car to be sure to film the front side of everyone who marched down Riverside Ave and across San Lorenzo Blvd and the San Lorenzo River.
(here's a map where the SCPD cop was parked: http://tinyurl.com/gpab6 )
Then as I was walking on Riverside Avenue, a SCPD police officer drove by in a car and pulled out a still camera to take a picture of me.
![placa_3-17-06.jpg"]()
I know this post was about undercover police, not officers in uniform, but I thought I would mention the SCPD as well.
In addition to (what appear to be) undercover cops who filmed the demonstration, the Santa Cruz Police Department was also filming the people in the demonstration.
I saw a police officer turn the camera inside his police car to be sure to film the front side of everyone who marched down Riverside Ave and across San Lorenzo Blvd and the San Lorenzo River.
(here's a map where the SCPD cop was parked: http://tinyurl.com/gpab6 )
Then as I was walking on Riverside Avenue, a SCPD police officer drove by in a car and pulled out a still camera to take a picture of me.
I know this post was about undercover police, not officers in uniform, but I thought I would mention the SCPD as well.
For more information:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/180875...
Oh, so it's okay to take pictures of the cops and make maps of where they were parked in marked patrol cars. I love the map, that was a nice touch. I'm sure the cops were really upset that you found them out parked there in bright white cars with those stripes down the side and the undercover neon red and blue lights on top and that emblem on each door that says Santa Cruz Police on it. They put so much effort into concealing themselves, but you saw through the charade and figured it out on your own. Well done! And god forbid they take your picture of you taking their picture. Is there something wrong with this picture?? (Pun intended) But you can take comfort each night before you go to bed that the cops now have a picture of you and your camera wielding friends and are passing them around at the station pointing fingers at each one and laughing their asses off.
Here's why it matters.
City Manager Dick Wilson and Chief Cop Howard Skerry have said repeatedly over the last several months that beyond the parade spying, the SCPD has engaged in no monitoring of any other political or community groups.
It has long been felt by the SC activist community that they were under the watchful eye of the SCPD. Beyond just being fucking creepy and Big Brother, monitoring of peaceful political protest violates our constitutional guarantees of free speech, free assembly, and privacy.
Now for all you law and order types, shouldn't the police themselves be following the law specifically written to keep them out of people's business?
City Manager Dick Wilson and Chief Cop Howard Skerry have said repeatedly over the last several months that beyond the parade spying, the SCPD has engaged in no monitoring of any other political or community groups.
It has long been felt by the SC activist community that they were under the watchful eye of the SCPD. Beyond just being fucking creepy and Big Brother, monitoring of peaceful political protest violates our constitutional guarantees of free speech, free assembly, and privacy.
Now for all you law and order types, shouldn't the police themselves be following the law specifically written to keep them out of people's business?
yeah - clearly there are troubles with the practice of picking out older white people and assuming they would be the first candidates for having outside motives... except for the demographic probability that most west coast police departments do lean towards that group. But any of us can imagine that if you moved to a new town and wanted to change your cultural affiliation, it wouldn't be that difficult to do for someone with social skills as long as it isn't a huge leap (such as pretending to switch ethnic groups). i.e. a younger officer wouldn't have that much trouble picking the right clothes and not acting totally conspicuous if they had a clue.
The key thing that B. did was to go over and say hello and ask who they are. Most people meet several new people at rallies and do this anyway. There are still some people who appear to be police by their speech and mannerisms who just aren't.
I got some photos here of a pair I strongly believed were plainclothes, and so did many others do to their pace on the sidewalk and whispering into their collar etc. But I have occasionally seen photosets on other indymedias where they looked like they had included many photos of random people in the crowd who just looked older.
The key thing that B. did was to go over and say hello and ask who they are. Most people meet several new people at rallies and do this anyway. There are still some people who appear to be police by their speech and mannerisms who just aren't.
I got some photos here of a pair I strongly believed were plainclothes, and so did many others do to their pace on the sidewalk and whispering into their collar etc. But I have occasionally seen photosets on other indymedias where they looked like they had included many photos of random people in the crowd who just looked older.
Guess what boys and girls. Cops are people too. And when you are the victim of a crime you are always screeming for one and are pissed when one or more is not around.
Well when large groups gather things happen such as pick-pockets. Cops know that and they often mix in among the large groups so they can bust the bad guys.
Additionally cops have political views. Most cops actually want to help their fellow Americans which is why they choose the job they do. When they are not working and in uniform they have a right to participate in political protests if they want to. At the same time they are going to hang out with people they know. Just like you.
Well when large groups gather things happen such as pick-pockets. Cops know that and they often mix in among the large groups so they can bust the bad guys.
Additionally cops have political views. Most cops actually want to help their fellow Americans which is why they choose the job they do. When they are not working and in uniform they have a right to participate in political protests if they want to. At the same time they are going to hang out with people they know. Just like you.
pick-pocketers? come on...
This whole argument about cops being able to do whatever they want on their free time is distracting. why? because the question is whether they are on the payroll, whether they have been assigned to do this, and whether they'll be making a report back.
cops are not 'like anyone else.' let's not fool ourselves. their job in society, is to maintain the social order and supress any political movements that have a real potential for change.
all folks have been saying is that if cops want to come and find out what's going on, they should come in uniform. if you were at friday's march, you saw that event organizers were talking with the uniformed cops.. telling them their route and coordinating safety. there's no need for plainclothed/undercover cops. there was no threat of violence, and even if there was, uniformed cops could better deter & respond than undercovers (not that I'm advocating huge uniformed police presences...).
as far as profiling cops is concerned, for those of us that have been in this community for a while and organized for a while, we have learned the type of folks that come to protests and if folks stand out, we generally try to talk to them or sniff them out a bit. it's any small-town mentality - people want to know who they're living with. if you look back at the Last Night spying, the cops there EXACTLY fit this profile of being athletically built middle-aged white men. the Last Night organizers were surprised by this and actually excited because it signaled an expansion of the type of folks working on their project. they just thought they were some 'surfer dudes.' turned out they were cops and one even brought a gun into a community members' home.
we aren't being naive, just concerned about our safety. we aren't being paranoid, but just ensuring that the police that we pay with our tax dollars are not repressing/spying constitutionally-protected activity.
This whole argument about cops being able to do whatever they want on their free time is distracting. why? because the question is whether they are on the payroll, whether they have been assigned to do this, and whether they'll be making a report back.
cops are not 'like anyone else.' let's not fool ourselves. their job in society, is to maintain the social order and supress any political movements that have a real potential for change.
all folks have been saying is that if cops want to come and find out what's going on, they should come in uniform. if you were at friday's march, you saw that event organizers were talking with the uniformed cops.. telling them their route and coordinating safety. there's no need for plainclothed/undercover cops. there was no threat of violence, and even if there was, uniformed cops could better deter & respond than undercovers (not that I'm advocating huge uniformed police presences...).
as far as profiling cops is concerned, for those of us that have been in this community for a while and organized for a while, we have learned the type of folks that come to protests and if folks stand out, we generally try to talk to them or sniff them out a bit. it's any small-town mentality - people want to know who they're living with. if you look back at the Last Night spying, the cops there EXACTLY fit this profile of being athletically built middle-aged white men. the Last Night organizers were surprised by this and actually excited because it signaled an expansion of the type of folks working on their project. they just thought they were some 'surfer dudes.' turned out they were cops and one even brought a gun into a community members' home.
we aren't being naive, just concerned about our safety. we aren't being paranoid, but just ensuring that the police that we pay with our tax dollars are not repressing/spying constitutionally-protected activity.
Actually, both cops who were infiltrated the DIY parade planning meetings held in private homes were packing guns, badges, and radios. This was revealed in the 600-page internal investigation.
Yeah, cops are ordinary people and no doubt nice guys (and occasionally gals) who are great with their kids and cook at the neighborhood BBQ. But when they are on-duty their job is to maintain order and stiffle dissent. Undercover or not, on-duty police are NOT welcome at our meetings, our marches, our protests, our spaces, our homes, or our events.
And while I don't want to get hung up on pieces of paper written centuries ago by wealthy white slave owners, the constitution is on our side on this. So is the law.
So since I know Indymedia is widely read and posted by the local PDs, consider yourself uninvited.
Yeah, cops are ordinary people and no doubt nice guys (and occasionally gals) who are great with their kids and cook at the neighborhood BBQ. But when they are on-duty their job is to maintain order and stiffle dissent. Undercover or not, on-duty police are NOT welcome at our meetings, our marches, our protests, our spaces, our homes, or our events.
And while I don't want to get hung up on pieces of paper written centuries ago by wealthy white slave owners, the constitution is on our side on this. So is the law.
So since I know Indymedia is widely read and posted by the local PDs, consider yourself uninvited.
I don't see why the cops need to take pictures of these people. The activists and community members do a good job on their own and even go so far as to post the pictures of everyone in attendance on this and other sites. The cops could save tons of money on overtime by just letting the other posters on here do their job for them, which they seem to be doing very well by the way.
Sending undercovers to community meetings is more make-work for the police. They can plan a several person team,
order expensive equipment, and bill the City for everything. Police budgets don't get cut, but they DO have to justify
the expenses somehow. There are plenty of cops to answer 9/11 calls. We have cops to walk a beat, and to drive in
their areas on regular patrols. Studies show, just the presence of police officers affects a reduction in the crime.
Not true with undercovers. In fact, undercovers serve little public good. If a citizen reports a crime, they don't want
an undercover showing up.
Santa Cruz, with a population of 54,000 has a low crime rate. We don't need to spend a third of our general fund on
police. Coupled with Parks and Rec (Rangers) and the Fire Department (which also has enforcement powers) over 50 percent
of our cities budget is going for security/defense.
It mirrors the national budget, even here in liberal Santa Cruz.
Back to my original point---CNET and this political spying are undercover units who don't walk a beat, patrol in a car, or answer a phone.
They sit around in some back room at the police station, thinking up places where they can send undercover police to spy on private
citizens on our dollar. Mostly drug stings and scams with fake prostitutes. Political spying is easier and safer than dealing with drug dealers
and pimps.
They don't have to be in league with the Bushies (although we can't rule that out) They have little or no oversight,
and even less public scrutiny. It could just be that simple for why they are doing it.....to draw another paycheck.
If we really want to save the City some money, AND get rid of a questionable practice on the part of our own police department,
we should end CNET.
order expensive equipment, and bill the City for everything. Police budgets don't get cut, but they DO have to justify
the expenses somehow. There are plenty of cops to answer 9/11 calls. We have cops to walk a beat, and to drive in
their areas on regular patrols. Studies show, just the presence of police officers affects a reduction in the crime.
Not true with undercovers. In fact, undercovers serve little public good. If a citizen reports a crime, they don't want
an undercover showing up.
Santa Cruz, with a population of 54,000 has a low crime rate. We don't need to spend a third of our general fund on
police. Coupled with Parks and Rec (Rangers) and the Fire Department (which also has enforcement powers) over 50 percent
of our cities budget is going for security/defense.
It mirrors the national budget, even here in liberal Santa Cruz.
Back to my original point---CNET and this political spying are undercover units who don't walk a beat, patrol in a car, or answer a phone.
They sit around in some back room at the police station, thinking up places where they can send undercover police to spy on private
citizens on our dollar. Mostly drug stings and scams with fake prostitutes. Political spying is easier and safer than dealing with drug dealers
and pimps.
They don't have to be in league with the Bushies (although we can't rule that out) They have little or no oversight,
and even less public scrutiny. It could just be that simple for why they are doing it.....to draw another paycheck.
If we really want to save the City some money, AND get rid of a questionable practice on the part of our own police department,
we should end CNET.
For more information:
http://www.huffsantacruz.org
Hey folks, a friend of mine sent me a link to this discussion because he recognized me in a photo. I'm the guy with the little panasonic camcorder, and I'm not a cop. I'm not upset about being racially profiled (though it doesn't feel good), because I realize that everyone does it all the time whether they want to admit it or not - it's just how our brains are wired. But it's important not to do harm to someone based upon those assumptions. Fortunate for me, that hasn't happened yet in this case.
However, I have had my life threatened a few times while I was at protests. No wonder I wouldn't give my personal information out to a stranger who asked for it. I have been an activist for 20 years, mostly for environmental causes, and one thing I've learned is that the PC Left has at least as much potential for fascism as does the PC Right. I could give numerous examples, but instead I'll just suggest (to everyone) that you learn a bit about mob psychology and also read the book Faces Of The Enemy by Sam Keen.
Good luck with your personal development!
However, I have had my life threatened a few times while I was at protests. No wonder I wouldn't give my personal information out to a stranger who asked for it. I have been an activist for 20 years, mostly for environmental causes, and one thing I've learned is that the PC Left has at least as much potential for fascism as does the PC Right. I could give numerous examples, but instead I'll just suggest (to everyone) that you learn a bit about mob psychology and also read the book Faces Of The Enemy by Sam Keen.
Good luck with your personal development!
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