Homophobic Right Wing Fun Fest coming to SBC Park 3/24-3/25/06

that's just next week? I hadn't heard of it yet, but it sounds so completely antagonistic to San Francisco that you would barely need to organize due to prevailing public opinion. They're baiting the city.

They're in total confrontation mode.

They're hoping for a provocation in order to further mobilize. As we have seen from our side when we have done it, that often means they will be able to breathe new life into their cause.

Let's not give them any reason to recruit.

The best possible reaction is to infiltrate their crowds and meetings and just talk to them, rationally.

Flashy signs opposing them is what they want.

However, if anyone is savvy enough to find out the location of their leader's hotel stay or places he might be, that would benefit us.

Get the word out.

This is typical of the new tactics of the extreme right. To look ultra mainstream and make sure they have plenty of photo opps with the opposition- whenever possible characterizing them as angry outsiders (even in their own city). It's all about the marketing skills.

http://www.acquirethefire.com/stadiums.php?pageid=97

(from the website)

Where would your gifts and talents be most effective? Take a look at the opportunities that are available and choose where you believe the Lord wants to use you this year!

*Must be 17 or older to volunteer

College/Singles groups welcome!

All volunteers will receive:

* Free Admission
* Free ATF Event Staff T-shirt
* Merchandise Discount

Leadership Opportunities Available!
See infromation on being a Local Volunteer Coordinator (LVC).

http://www.visionamerica.us/site/PageServer?pagename=confagenda

THE WAR ON CHRISTIANS AND THE VALUES VOTER IN 2006
March 27-28, 2006 Washington, DC
All Speakers Confirmed
March 27

1:00-1:30 ***Speaker Ron Luce***

1:30-2:30 Panel: "Jews Confront The War On Christians" Jeff Ballabon (Center for Jewish Values), moderator, Don Feder (Vision America and Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation), Rabbi Aryeh Spero (Caucus for America), Michael Horowitz (Hudson Institute), Joseph Ben Ami (Institute for Canadian Values)
2:30-3:00 Afternoon Coffee Break

3:00-4:00 Panel: ***"The Gay Agenda: America Won’t Be Happy"*** Peter Sprigg (FRC) moderator, Regina Griggs (Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays), Peter LaBarbera (Illinois Family Institute), Lou Sheldon (Traditional Values Coalition), Brian Camenker (Mass. Resistance/Article 8 Alliance)

4:00-4:30 Speaker -- ***Phyllis Schlafly***

If you don't organize, they'll be back. They like it here! Great scenery, good coverage, AND they can get their message out to the youth of tomorrow! All a plus.

I think Kevin is completely right. The more you try to antagonize them, the more they are going to take it to heart that they are being "PERSECUTED for righteousness sake." Remember the March for Life in January? Anarchist Action publicized a campaign against them and they mangaged to get 10,000 participants to come out (though I doubt this statistic.)

Unlike most of you, I think that 99% of the people there are probably nice people who recognize that there is something wrong in the world and want to be a part of a cause that they feel will help people. Why not challenge them with information about the challenge of gobal warming, war crimes and the threat of DU? Instead of antagonizing them about their religious inclinations, why not challenge them with the words of Jesus? One of the best stories that Jesus used to shoot down hypocrits was his story about the sheep and the goats. After death, one group came up to God and wanted to commune with him/her. God asks them what he did for him/her. The first group feigns ignorance and makes reference to all the great things they think they've done. He asks them, "Did you feed the poor, visit the sick and imprisoned (etc.)?" They didn't and so they are rejected. The second group answers by saying that they did indeed do these things and God replies, "whatever you've done for the least of these, you've done for me." (Yes, this is my paraphrase.)

I think this is a powerful parable that speaks to the essence of the message of Jesus. It cuts through all the garbage that "evangelists" try to use on youth to whip up enthusiasm and gets to the heart of what I think is the essence of the message of Jesus, which is ultimatley peaceful.

Yeah, I know that there are many readers who are not followers of Jesus. I respect that and I also think that you should respect another person's philosophical choices, too, as long as they are not oppressive to others in living out those beliefs.

I think there is more than one way to deal with this. Because of his stand on gay marriage, I don't think you can let Ron Luce go unanswered in a city which is proudly in support of the lgbti community. If you come to City Hall specifically because that's where gay marriages were celebrated, and you want to tell America's youth that is evil, then you will not leave without a protest.

That being said, they have every right to have their event, we have every right to respond in whatever way we would like to respond. For myself, I would recommend humor and satire rather than confrontation.

To come to SF and use it as a marketing opportunity to set up their Christian fascist youth brigade is not cool. Call them on it.

OK, let's protest, but who do I contact to get invovled?

"People, the car is on fire and the youth of America are trapped inside. Suicide, abortion, alcohol, drug abuse, and violence are fiery flames licking at the wreckage of many young lives." -Ron Luce

It seems like there main focus is to fight the things that Christian teens are struggling with, not as much targeting us...but that's just a thought.

This is exactly the point.

MY GENERATION IS DYING! I don't want to see my generation go down in flames. Neither do many other people around America.

That is exactly what is going on. Do you know the statistics? Do you know what I have gone through? Or my best friends? I don't think you do, because if you truly knew the intensity of what is happening to my generation, you would not sit silent either.

World can't Wait, Not in Our Name, BACORR, or Code Pink.

Please don't assume that we hate Christians just because we have an opposing viewpoint.

But Matt, do you support the rights of gays to marry and adopt children?
It's very important to us in our community to see that kids have a safe and secure home in a diverse and tolerant environment. It doesn't seem that Ron Luce supports that, which is a concern to us, given this news:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/21/BAG03HRJEC1.DTL&hw=adoptions&sn=004&sc=665

I don't think that homosexual marriage is the focus of this protest. The focus of this protest is the garbage that the media and culture has crammed down my Generation throat. How we can't turn the corner without seeing something sexual. I have a younger brother who I do not want growing up in a culture where sex can be bought and cheapened. We aren't protesting gay marriage....we are protesting this world and its tactics.

If you all go out there thinking we are protesting gay marriage, you will be in for a treat because that isn't the purpose.

Ron Luce: "I wanted to inform you of another way that we can all make a statement for this generation to the entire northwest region and even the entire country..."

"Please prayerfully consider coming early and gathering for this pre-event Battlecry Rally at San Francisco’s City Hall and have your teens participate as we pray for the northwest region, our nation, and this generation. (These are the very city hall steps where several months ago ***gay marriages*** were celebrated for the entire world to see)."

http://battlecry.com/documents/Registration_Kit_Manual_2006_SBC_Park.pdf

That sex can be bought doesn't cheapen it. It makes it more expensive.

Unless they earn it.

And they don't appreciate sex workers. I say we give a quarter to every single one who will take their mission to "The Lusty Lady". I would only recommend a union joint, cause that's the kind of town we are.

I have two boys going to this event - and I think the phobia is held all around. The focus is on not trashing others, but encouraging strength of faith, of "coming out of the closet" as a Christian rather than be bullied down by others, in a time where Christian-bashing is becomming more & more prevalent. Prayer will be held, in many shapes and forms, recognizing the need for all who sin (and, c'mon now, who doesn't???) to seek a better way, in love, not in the hate so many appear to be paranoid of. This is a forum for love, so all right already - these are KIDS, not adults, who want to praise their God in a safe forum. Are you saying you don't want to grant them that?

to appropriate "coming out of the closet" to describe poor old oppressed christians when you've got an evengelical president who thinks we're on the verge of end times, most of congress, and more than a few supreme court justices. self-professed christians make up a majority in this country, christianity is on parade all over, and you think you live in a closet?

and you think poor old christians are being "bashed"? how ironic. you speak of bashing christians in a metaphorical sense while your religion, your religious leaders spew hate toward gay people everyday, thereby encouraging the very REAL bashing and murder of gay people

you're people are running this country and you cry victim as you victimize others

Sorry, more....and both "hmmm" and Matt are on track. Increasing pregnancy rates (as opposed to Bush's stats), suicide rates, earlier age of having sex, and more haunt today's teens, given them less & less to look forward to in the future (let alone environmental, political, other concerns). To give them hope, direction, show them love as Christ did to all (hey, he hung out w/ the worse of 'em....) so the future doesn't look so bleak, and they don't feel so alone - that's the part y'all seem to be missing.

And if Luce appears judgmental, well, we all know the end Judge won't be him or others on this earth. Give the teens credit to weed through and question just as you & I did growing up...

Hey, "what gall", since when do you have the idea I voted for, let alone, support Bush? Jesus was the ultimate liberal. How others bastardize or sway His teachings is their issue to deal with at the end. And I can use that phrase in the same way my (gay) sister & brother can, knowing that by saying I am Christian gets someone like you to act up the way you just did - so again, dear one, don't judge lest ye be judged.

you want the future to look less bleak? then join us to stop the war that's going on now, stop bush from running this country so far into debt making war profiteers rich that all children's future is mortgaged away while schools are closing and millions don't have health care, stop bush and the capitalists from wrecking the environment that the kids will need to breathe and live

there's real on this earth problems that are leading to a bleak future. salvation in heaven should be about last on your list

as for the kids thinking for themselves, check out their comments here. they repeat everything il duce proclaims as truth and most of it is actually lies

your kids' new leader wants to come to SF to make a stink about gay marriages that happened here a couple years back. check the battlecry itinerary if you don't believe me. what's that appearance at city hall all about? compassion and tolerance?

don't give me any malarky about your "liberal" persuasions

you are sending your kids to follow a hateful man, and you defend it here even

Again, we're more on the same page than you appear to want to believe. Just because I claim Christ as my saviour doesn't mean I support the actions of all who do so. Those Nigerians who killed so many in the name of Christianity? Anti-abortionists who kill the abortion doctors? C'mon, why do you make so many assumptions about me/my beliefs because I follow Christ - did He advocate those actions? Do you know which way I vote by my religious choice (wasn't Kennedy a Catholic...??)?

These kids can't fight for their future if they don't see one for themselves. If they don't question, it's because they haven't been taught to - I expect to have quite the rousing discussion w/ mine when they return! And if others follow blindly, it's because they don't have anything else to hold onto, or parents who don't care enough to get involved or teach them otherwise. We're not made to be blind sheep, but open-eyed followers with the gift of choice. I understand the fear, having grown up in it more than you have the right to know, of those reading Luce's single line - but do read the rest, and have some faith in these kids having minds of their own as you must have growing up.

Again, we're more on the same page than you appear to want to believe. Just because I claim Christ as my saviour doesn't mean I support the actions of all who do so. Those Nigerians who killed so many in the name of Christianity? Anti-abortionists who kill the abortion doctors? C'mon, why do you make so many assumptions about me/my beliefs because I follow Christ - did He advocate those actions? Do you know which way I vote by my religious choice (wasn't Kennedy a Catholic...??)?

These kids can't fight for their future if they don't see one for themselves. If they don't question, it's because they haven't been taught to - I expect to have quite the rousing discussion w/ mine when they return! And if others follow blindly, it's because they don't have anything else to hold onto, or parents who don't care enough to get involved or teach them otherwise. We're not made to be blind sheep, but open-eyed followers with the gift of choice. I understand the fear, having grown up in it more than you have the right to know, of those reading Luce's single line - but do read the rest, and have some faith in these kids having minds of their own as you must have growing up.

And BTW BattleCry is not SF-specific. It's hit many cities across the U.S. My kids only follow One and He isn't speaking anything but love. So sorry if I can't share it the way He could, and didn't realize this is a one-sided, closed forum that can't allow "someone like me" to participate.

This was on their website, not necessarily in response to the current brouha, but I think it expresses how many of us feel about all the "family values" coming from Luce and his kind:

FAMILY VALUES?
Statement from ACTUP SF

The Christian Right wing speaks of returning Amerika to a bygone era of family values. But let’s face it! When the right wing speaks nostalgically of the past we know they are speaking of a time when a woman’s place was in the kitchen, blacks rode in the back of the bus, Mexicans did the yard work, and queers remained in the closet. To such wishful thinking on the part of the reactionary conservatives we say, GET OVER IT!

It is bogus to speak of the “sacredness” of marriage or family. Historically marriage is based on the male private ownership of women and children. Up until the suffrage movement of the late 19th century, women had neither voting nor property rights nor any legal recourse to protect themselves from abuse and economic dependency. Like every other minority in US society, women had to demand their basic human rights from the white male establishment. In the 1970s the feminist movement boldly proclaimed “Our Bodies, Ourselves” setting the stage for the right to choose. This basic first step towards women’s emancipation rocked society to its foundation sending the Christian Right wing reeling. Conservatives blame the so-called “breakdown of the family” on such advances as a woman’s right to choose, gay rights and the sexual freedom movement. But in truth the “breakdown of the family” is only a reflection of the general breakdown of class society. Just as the era of the abusive father needs to come to an end, the top heavy CEOs of corporate Amerika need to be shown the door. Nothing less than a social order free of bosses, generals, priests, kings, prime ministers, presidents and other authoritarian father figures can insure our freedom.

That reverends, coaches, parents, sergeants, teachers, television producers and other responsible members of society continue to condemn homosexuality is inexcusable. To pretend that such people are not responsible for the mounting violence against queers is out of the question. Gay people who attempt to fit into the constrictions of marriage, family and military service are selling themselves short. It is both cliché and oxymoron to speak of the dysfunctional family. There is a fifty percent divorce rate among heterosexuals. The number of divorces, like the number of teenagers suffering from drug abuse, alcoholism, bulimia, suicide, and illiteracy, is indicative of the general failure of the family unit. Shootings by children in public schools culminating in the Littleton debacle, both shocked the world and, like the continued bombing of the civilian populations of Iraq and Afghanistan, exposes the true nature of the country’s macho militaristic ethic of blind aggression. We are told Hopi prophecy warns when children begin killing it is a sign the world is ending. Amerika’s gas guzzling, animal eating, plutonium fueled, love-hating society, founded on land theft, the extermination of Native people, the enslavement of African people, the subjugation of women, and consequently the condemnation of homosexuality, continues to drive the world towards nuclear catastrophe. So much for family values! And so much for the morality of the Christian Right wing!

Ah, I guess since I don't fall under the category of "Christian right wing" referred to, or don't THINK I do (haveta check my multi-racial, abortion-sinning, Democrat-votin' abused wrong-side-of-the-track self fits....), I don't have to think you're talkin' about me...

You know, my children chose to go there - I didn't "send" them as, again, was erroneously assumed, since my spouse & I both worry about indoctrination that conflicts w/ our personal beliefs. But given the kids want to go more for the music & camaraderie of being around fellow Christians, we reluctantly agreed. After all, if we can't be open to discussing different beliefs & the impact of same, aren't we reflecting intolerance that we (you) decry? They have friends feeling lost, close to suicide, dealing w/ the issues at home (and more) cited. I'm more worried about providing them exposure to varied inputs so they can help to save the future world than I am about having to be challenged about my beliefs when they come back & tell me what they got out of it. And since none of us have the ability to come up w/ the perfect formula for just how to undo the crud that's out there, but I *think* we'd all agree to concepts of love & peace as the end result, I love them enough to allow them that forum.

Guess I"ll have to shut down my Utne subscription, huh?

Look at the banner up top. The language, the graphics, everything, is VERY militaristic, like a recruiting ad

Go see how their website, such as it is, borrows from the visual propaganda of revolutionary militarism

http://www.battlecry.com/

This is not your garden variety evangelism. These people are out to create an army of suicidal Christian zealots as a counterweight to Islamism. It's time to get the cannon fodder whipped up into a full blood-frenzy, and for that nuthin beats that ol'-time religion!

Yup - but I don't believe in the way you think, any more than the "battle against AIDS" is. A fight to save the spirit of those struggling, to infuse them with hope, to offer them a cure if they so choose to take it. Same kinda battle on both, IMO.

Do remember, it's easy to look at these and want to cry out against the organizers, even the speakers - but there are innocent kids who will be the bulk of the attendees who will listen much more to you, your thoughts, with a message delivered in peace rather than anger. You want them to "hear" you, you concerns? Don't vent or curse so much - act like, well, adults and converse. Else, you will shut down their ability to hear you because they instead will fear you.

Hitler Youth were innocent kids, too

as for the battlecry christian soldiers, they lose their benefit-of-the-doubt innocence when they run around the internet, and who knows where else, spreading the gospel of hate and prejudice in the name of some fantastical god. they are confused, obviously, but when they actively try to spread their confusion and blind-faith in crooked leaders, then they are no longer innocent and retorting to their nonsense, especially here, is fair game

go here:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/1810572.php

I can not believe what I have been reading from so many of ur comments on here. Ron Luce is not trying to be judgemental or bash anyone. He loves the Lord, he has a heart for the youth, for this generation, I am a christian and by saying that i mean what i say i strive to live for him and I have a personal relationship with him. I dont expect you to understand, but you should know that by any Christian leader saying that homosexuality is wrong doesnt mean we are bashing you or hate you or judging, I have friends that are gay but i love them, but even though i love them i dont agree with there lifestyle, its the bible the word of God, I will love them as Christ does and let them know my heart and what the Lord says and pray for them, but its up to that person whther they want to recieve it or not. why do you get so hateful, about that? Why so angry? If we has christian want to get togther and praise him and pray , whats wrong with that, just like you have ur events you go to, concerts ect...so do us as christians have ours. We just want to pray for you and each other. And be in fellowship with one another. We are heartbroken for this generation and in order to get something done we have to actually stand up and do something! thats my few words. I hope all you recieve Jesus, he loves you and wants to be real to you!

they can barely write an intelligent sentence. they constantly contradict themselves

little wonder someone like this nazi ringleader can come to them and say, "God wants you to do this and that and whatever you will do you will be forgiven" and they eat that false sense of security up like there's no tomorrow (er, end times are upon us)

no i dont just listen to anyone and believe them, it can be looked up in the word of God the Bible. sorry u feel that way. For ur sake though, I hope ur right, really, I really hope ur right, cuz if ur not, well I hope ur right.
God Bless you!

heard it before

I cannot believe you are actually thinking these people are militaristic. The concept of spiritual warfare is nothing new. Comparing them to the Nazis is especially ridiculous. I can assure you that Ron Luce would never call for anyone to be murdered. The fight is against ideas that are being saturated into young peoples' minds, not against other people.

I cannot believe you are actually thinking these people are militaristic. The concept of spiritual warfare is nothing new. Comparing them to the Nazis is especially ridiculous. I can assure you that Ron Luce would never call for anyone to be murdered. The fight is against ideas that are being saturated into young peoples' minds, not against other people.

this was the banner on their website last night while they were hiding all the goodies from the press and other inquiring minds.

Yeah, the entire thing is a war theme, since they are talking about spiritual warfare. I went to a similar youth conference once that had a them called Gameday and had a picture of a football players head on the front of the programs and workbooks. I suppose you would assume that they were trying to start a "fascist Christian" football team.

to brown shirts bother you in the least.

For people whose central argument is that they are "open minded" as opposed to "fascist Christians," you guys are jumping to some huge conclusions just by looking at some pictures. Try actually reading some of Ron Luce's teachings. When he refers to it as a "real war" he is talking about two things. The first is the references in the Bible to the spiritual war.

"For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." 2 Corinthians 10:3-5

"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in heavenly realms." Eph. 6:10-12

"...Our struggle is not against flesh and blood..."

The second thing he is talking about is the fact that their are real casualties to this war. Real people are being killed by drugs and alcohol. Real people are dying of STD's. Real people are facing struggles like cutting themselves, anorexia, and suicide. Real blood is being shed, and organizations are making money off of it.

"If we can effectively kill the national pride and patriotism of just one generation, we have won that county. By making readily available drugs of various kinds, by giving a teenager alcohol, by praising his wildness, by strangling him with sex literature, and by advertising to his and her psycho political preparation, we create the necessary attitude of chaos, idleness, and worthlessness." -Joseph Stalin

Please stop comparing those who want to murder people with those trying to save their generation.

unfortunately you're just a future shill for Ron Luce. Who knows, maybe one day, you may be fortunate enough to work for him in his marketing departmnent.

"Please stop comparing those who want to murder people with those trying to save their generation."

"Save their generation?" "murder people?"

I think you're watching too many video games. It's clear the indoctrination had a fertile field due to your mental laziness. People like you make me really cynical. You don't save your generation by denying their rights, but by preserving them.

This whole experience has made you unhappy because your BattleCry is not all peace and light as you expected. Welcome to the real world with real people who disagree with you )but are not bad people.)

I am not upset that people disagree with Ron Luce. I am simply saying, don’t look at the name of the conference and a picture or two and say, “Oh my goodness, these people are just like the Nazis.”

Furthermore, you are putting words in my mouth. I did not mention the restricting of rights.

1500 teenagers commit suicide each year. 8000 contract an STD every day. You may think that’s not a problem. I do.

"1500 teenagers commit suicide each year. 8000 contract an STD every day. You may think that’s not a problem. I do."

What does the right to abortion and the right to marry (or even just live without discrmination) have to do with your mission?

Don't tell me sly Ronnie doesn't have a stand on those issues. He wants a return to HIS values. They're not MY values. And he doesn't have the only clue about why teens commit suicide. Bringing them all to "Jeesus" is not the only answer, but it's the only one he's spoonfeeding to susceptible, gullible, unformed kids.

Okay...Ron Luce is a follower of Christ, his stands is based on the The word of God (holy Bible) and he doesn't make them up and say ok i want to tell them this is right and wrong b/c i made this up... God gave us an instruction book to help us live the best christian life we can... we want to help others know of this love that we do, just like if you found out someone you love or just anybody was going to die to tomorrow and you can tell them about it so that they may listen and not die.. and i know you are going to believe what you believe, i just hope for ur sake that ur right b/c if ur not well i really truly hope your right. Its ur choice ur descion on where you want to be after this life on earth is over... I just wish you knew of this man that changed my heart and life...a man who loves u very much, even though you choose to not believe in him. God bless you, I will say a prayer for you...

An open letter to Ron Luce, Battlecry kiddies, and Teen Maniacs

March 2006

Dear Ron Luce et al,

Thank you for doing so much to educate the troubled youth of our country regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.


a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you all have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.



-----------------------------------



These are the Biblical verses refered to above, in two different translations: the King James Version [KJV], and New International Version [NIV]

Lev 18:22 [KJV] Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. [NIV] Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Lev 1:9 [KJV] But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD. [NIV] He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.

Exodus 21:7 [KJV] And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. [NIV] If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do.

Lev 15:19-24 [KJV] And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. 20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. 21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. 24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.
[NIV] When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. 20 Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening. 24 If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.

Lev 25:44 [KJV] Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. [NIV] Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

Exodus 35:2 [KJV] Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. [NIV] For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Lev 11:10 [KJV] And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you [NIV] But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales --- whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water --- you are to detest.

Lev 21:20 [KJV] Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken [NIV] or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

Lev 19:27 [KJV] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [NIV] Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Lev 11:6-8 [KJV] And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
[NIV] The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divied, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcases; they are unclean for you.

Lev 19:19 [KJV] Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee. [NIV] Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

Lev 24:10-16 [KJV] And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp; 11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the Lord, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan:) 12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be shewed them. 13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. 15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. 16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
[NIV] Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the name of the LORD with a curse; so they brough him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them. 13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

Lev 20:14 [KJV] And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. [NIV] If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

I was at the conference, and I heard Ron speak, plus a number of other speakers/bands, who all had encouraging words to say...I never once heard anyone say that homosexuality is wrong. Most of us believe it is, and are praying for the situation, just as we believe drunkeness is wrong, with a multitude of other things. It doesn't mean we think we are perfect. We ALL struggle with sin, and all sin is equal. We just don't want certain sins to be made out as "okay" and "acceptable". You don't have to aggree with us, but we have the right to our opinion. There was a message of love of ALL people, but we don't need to accept sin as right. There was a good section on abstinence, and that is for the safety of the youth...the statistics on STD's and death from them was astounding, and I am glad the truth was told. So, if safety and love is something you disagree with, then keep fighting against the Christians that love you! There was even a part of the message, that encouraged passivism when Christians were killed. It is the story called "The end of the Spear". Christian missionaries were killed when trying to witness to a violent tribe, that was killing each other to settle disputes. The families (women and children) of the missionaries, came to witness to the very people who killed their husbands/fathers. The tribe was so amazed by the love these women and children showed them, and finally hearing God's work, they eventually converted to Christianity, and stopped killing each other. Where is the violence in that???

don't expect passivism when Christians are the ones doing the killing, as has been the case far more often than not -- Christians have killed countless people throughout history but those days are almost over

all this fretting about sins inevitably leads you people to start enforcing your morality on others and from there to jailing and/or killing sinners (the bible encourages this)

so, know this, you start jailing and killing people because of what your bible tells you to do, and we will NOT be passive. we will resist. we will fight back.

there will be no more witch trials, no more spanish inquisitions, no more missionaries with diseased blankets making indigeoius peoples into slaves

know that we mean business if you try to fuck with us

People all over the world claim Christianity and do things in the name of whoever they feel like it. It doesn't mean they are real Christians. I'm sorry you feel you need to be violent and curse at me...but that is just the way it goes, I guess, and I will not get beligerent with you, I still love you.
Your arguments make no sense and your anger proves you have not found what you are looking for...keep searching...and I will pray that you find truth. :) Smile, Jesus loves you...and even though I am a sinner, he loves me too!

I have indeed found what I am looking for and your people want to tell me that YOUR way is the only way, that my lifestyle is a sin to be condemned, and that I need to bend to your magical thinking based on a book written 2000 years ago and re-interpreted like a game of telephone ever since, yet you pretend to take it literally when you really just pick and choose which parts you like and ignore the others

leave me and mine alone, keep your bibles to yourselves, keep your laws off of me, and there is no prob. keep your voodoo off my body and you can snakecharm all you like

but try to enforce your archaic and mythical self-righteous morality on me and those I love, and yes, there will be a big problem between you and I

know this

I suppose I'll be taking the highly unpopular route and defend Battlecry, since I was there and all.

See, not all Christians slept in English class: I write in complete sentences and everything. In any case, I'll get back to the point.

Concerning the event itself: the focus, believe it or not, was not how much you should hate homosexuals and those who practice abortion. In fact, the only thing that was mentioned of either issue was a statistic about teenage abortion, and the fact that about 2% of the U.S. population is homosexual, but since they had the determination to be heard in government and society, they got heard. Albeit plenty of loopholes lie in the rights and protections availed to them, the general whole of society has accepted homosexuality. Christians who oppose it are a minority.
The focus: The focus is actually intended to motivate Christian kids to stop sitting on their butts complaining about how corrupt the world is and do something about it. The focus is to, indeed, call the nation to a higher Authority, which the world does not want to limit itself to.
So, that's what Battlecry was about. I, personally, did not get a lot spiritually out of it (it was mostly an excellent concert), but there were valueable moments.

Concerning the open letter to Mr. Luce: The laws written in Leviticus are true; however, not all apply to the new covenant. The difference between the law against shellfish and the law against homosexuality, for example, is one remains in the Old Testament and the other reappears in the New Testament. If one studies the Bible in its entirety, one finds that the law is progressive altered as creation progresses. At the beginning, Abraham didn't even know God's name -- he just knew there was some dude in the sky that told him to pick up his family and move. In the beginning of the Bible, one will find a lot of incest -- Jacob's daughter's got him drunk so they could have sex with him to continue his bloodline. However, if you only begin with one man and one woman, of course you're going to have some inbreeding for a few generations. This is before the law in Leviticus 18 which states that one shall not have sexual relations with family members. Once Jesus came on the scene, a whole new code of laws had to be written; in the original covenant, in order to apologize for sin, a priest had to kill various farm animals in order to atone for himself and his people. But since Jesus came and did the whole God-on-earth thing and spilled His blood, it is basically, "Save a fatted calf, sacrifice God's Son." So, therefore, since Jesus was basically God on earth, His blood would be worth more than that of a cow or a goat.

Other laws and things that are in the New Testament also require a little bit of insight upon the context. For example: Paul wrote a letter to the young pastor Timothy at the church of Ephesus and said that women should not speak at all in church, nor be able to teach a man in authority. He is writing this letter to a specific church; why would he ask that the women remain silent, to not teach? These women in Ephesus may have needed the advice, as they may have been caught up in materialism, talking out of turn during a service, etc. He also writes (I apologize -- I cannot remember the exact place) that one should not get married. This is quite a dilemma -- I mean, the Bible only says that its sin to have sex out of wedlock, and without sex you can't prolong the race. However, he also adds afterwards that there are those that should get married, so that they *can* have the sex in marriage so they aren't tempted to sin.

And just as a bonus: the Bible does actually encourage sex -- if you read the Song of Solomon, you'll see that some excerpts are pretty much the happy married couple being extremely intimate relations.

Uh. I got a little bit off track, I think. I'm sorry. If you did care to hear more, I have my E-mail put in or whatever. I have to go study for a history essay. I guess, one last statement?

It *is* possible to love a person, even if you don't like what they do or believe. I apologize on behalf of Christians who treat any sort of group poorly and say it is because God says so -- because that really is a poor representation of what Christ came to teach -- but to civilly believe that a cause is right or wrong is perfectly acceptable. I am standing up for what I think is right, just as you all stand for what you believe is right. Is this religious intolerance?

We are not shoving the Bible down ur throat and im so sorry u have so much anger. We are praying for you Thats our own personal right just like u have to curse at us. The battlecry...whoever wanted to attend and stand up and pray they did...we didnt do anything to you, so why so angry with us? You have ur beliefs as do we. I think the world has got to say there word out loud now we as christians are finally doing the same and its making everyone nervous.or some we are making you mad for loving our God and standing up on his word. Jesus had people mad at him 2, enough to kill him and crucify him, where truth is there will always be controversy. Jesus stills loved them. and so do we still love you. say what you will and believe what you want...but again I hope for ur sake u r right, b/c if ur not well that wouldnt be good, but i really and truly hope u r. God bless you. I love u but he does more than you could ever imagine! :)

I am deeply grieved to read the amount of hostility and anger in these comments. So many writers are basing there comments on opinion rather than fact. We all have opinions, but the facts are based on TRUTH. (ex: rain is wet :)
It was beneficial to read through them and be reawakened to the importance for Christ followers to be "bold" and to .."stand firm in your faith, be courageous, be strong." (1 Corinth.16:13)
God uses all things for His glory, so praise God for all the conversation being generated.
And God bless everyone

thank you for that

what others say are opinions

but what you say is FACT and comes from the word of God (hint: faith is about belief and not facts as you cannot prove god's existence)

thanks for the laugh, though

you're truth comes from a book that has been re-interpretted and re-edited repeatedly, and you take your King James Version like it is the Original Voice of God

and yet you ignore half of what the bible says. only the parts your preachers push on you matter, ignore the rest

And in the first place was probably forged by 2nd Century CE Roman patricians as a mass mind control program. It worked brilliantly for 1200 years. Then the Renaissance, Enlightenment, and modernity propelled people to a popular understanding of how christian doctrine was really just an instrument of aristocrats and their agents (a la Divine Right of Kings and all that hooey) which had been used to alienate them from their common self-interests. Enlightened distrust of clergy as political agents then led to secularism. To this day, of course, SOME people have never risen to modernity's challenge...

SOME people, after all, are just natural-born chattel, preferring to have all their perceptions dictated to them from a moldy childish book. How weak and pathetic!

That is just what all these responses represent. A battle of ideals, a fight. Yes, in response to those who would say that ideals in the past have lead to evil tyrannical rule or even just unreasonable unflexible theocracies that do not allow free thought, I definitely agree. What a lot of what all the fuss equates to is how to rule choice or can it be ruled at all? Is it okay for a group of people to believe in something, anything they want? I do not believe that anyone can stop anyone else from feeling a particular way or not. Take the most educated individual, giving them every possible bit of data that exist and you will still have to stand back and watch the miracle of the human soul (brain for the less touchy types) compute all the information and decide what they believe is truth, what they believe is even worth further consideration. I have in my short lifetime even had the opportunity to watch an event take place and see that the group of witnesses to this actual observable event all have a different proclaimation of what happened. Good example is the homeschool bash from someones previous comment. Can it even be fesible for that individual to even believe that a home schooler can be the best doctor, lawyer, and maybe even president? Who is close minded? How far should any group with a certain set of ideals go when arguing or battleing another group of people with a totally or even partially different set of ideals? I am a Christian who does not believe that legislation and physical force can cause what I believe actually be considered right by any particular group of people, and most Christians and any one who is intellectually honest that reads and takes the whole of the bible into consideration should reckognize that the battle can not be won by physically preventing people from making certain decisions in how to live their life, even God allows choice. But I really would like to know how me declaring to a group of people that I believe homosexuality is a wrong choice, how is it hate speech. Is comparing all believers who would agree with me to NAZIs, is that hate speech? I guess the disagreement is where the homosexual community argues that their sexuality was not choice but something they where born into. But what if Ron Luce and I disagree with that conclusion, is that not okay?
I see why you would think that Ron Luce is dangerous, because his disagreement towards homosexuality no matter where it comes from you see is a disagreement to your very existence especially since, correct me if I am wrong, most homosexuals or even those who believe that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality believe it is not choice but how someone is born, being attracted to the same sex.
So we disagree and you believe that my disagreement in homosexuality and other things such as sex (pre marrital), abortion, and a whole bunch of other life issues, is what is going to lead to you being discriminated agaisnt and your rights being taken away.
Let me assure you of something. If right wing so called Christians where to ever gain enough political power to start enforcing a lot of laws that murdered any one who chose to do something that yes even I believe to be wrong especially and including homosexuality at that point I would be the first person to die for some of you who wrote hateful emails towards me and what I stand for. Yes thats right, I believe what I believe so strongly that I would gladly lay my life down for a homosexual man or woman if any group decided that because of their homosexuality they should be killed or imprisoned, because even though I believe homsexuality is wrong I know it does not warrant prison or death to that individual. NOTE: I do not agree with the death penalty, even for murderers, that was for a particualr point in history that has past. Here is where it gets tricky, what if the power shift was to the left and now if I was to say publicly that I believed homosexuality was a choice and one people should not make if they want to be in good relations with their maker, then even though you might disagree with me would it make you glad to see me carted off to jail or even sentenced to death.
Do you think these scenarios I presented are unreasonable? Just check the history books in Rome prior to Constantine most of the Roman leaders viewed Christianity (including a stand agaisnt certain views of sexuality) as a huge threat to them and their way of life, so much so they killed them in large numbers and imprisoned a lot more. And I am sure most people know that the Rome after Constantine, it killed or imprisoned anyone who did not agree with their interpretation of way of life.
In Sweeden a man in 2004 went to prison because he read certain passages from the Bible that proclaim homosexuality as sin, and the same legislation verbage just got signed into law in California and is right now on the US Senate floor for vote. And it does not just take away tax exempt status it actually allows prosecution for saying in public that homosexuality is wrong. I do not want anyone to go to jail for saying that me being a Christian is wrong, I want you to mantain your God given rights. But must either side of an ideal line drawn in the land go so far today. San Fransico prides itself on being an advanced city, but it looks to me like the city is getting ready to lead the charge in repeating mistakes of the past.
So being mad at Ron Luce or I is cool but I would ask you not to let your ideals carry you to the point of becoming a NAZI in your ideals. Hitler feared anyone who apposed his ideals to the point where he started to kill and enslave them. I do not fear opposing ideals and if there is anyone who wants to discuss their ideals further tell me how I can contact you via internet.
Professing Christians (which does not mean they really follow Jesus Christ) have burned books. Will you burn bibles in defense?
Professing Christians have censored so much they began to hide important truthfull information. Will you not allow particular things you disagree with to be spoken outloud as well?
My grandma told me one time to watch out when I pointed my finger at some one because with a closed fist I would have 3 fingers pointing back at me.

How many times do we have to say to you that expressing one's opinion freely is NOT "hateful" just because *you* characterize it as that. Check your insecurities please.

Also to make it more likely that people listen to you, could you please try to edit down just a little to make your points more succinctly?

Thanks.

Wow...it's amazing how tightly wound certain segments of society seem to be. You really have to go a looooong way (out of the way) to characterize folks involved in "Battle Cry" as "facists" and/or "homophobes."

Take three minutes (more if you wish), look over the "Battle Cry" Web site and see if you come to the same conclusions.

If you still see evidence of facisim et al., take a deep breath, say a prayer if that's your inclination, and remember...it's not about you.

ok, this could get long, i'll just talk 'bout one of your points....

christian persecution in rome.
yes, thats a nice little thing. the preacher loves to talk about the brave christians of the time. how they dared to believe, against all obstacles. and that stuff, ya know, you explained it to a point which is far enough for my point.
BUT THEN (thats the part the preacher forgets...)
After Paul had layed the fundament for christian theology(btw. you might read a bit about atheists view paul as the part that gave christianity the possibilities to be negative and hateful....) there was this guy called Constantin(about 310 AD). He was from the eastern part of the roman empire, and marched quickly towards rome(already having conquered northern italy) to take over the rule of Rome, in one of the typical civil wars of this period of the roman empire(cesar did quite similar) and beats his opponent Maxentius. After first being under the blessing of pagan Apollon, he changes his mind on the way(due to a star constellation he saw and a dream he had, as it is said) and becomes christian(you might speculate about "real reasons" as a sceptic; like paul having made christianity a religion which favors acceptance of worldly rulers etc...). He changes the Roman state religion to christianity, and BANG, there you go. guess what happened. A christian theocracy, out of the book. 330 constantin starts out with the persecution of philosophers(Nikagoras, Hermogenes etc.) and the book burning starts... lets just keep to "known" facts: 380 catholicism becomes official state religion, and official law starts to persecute non-christians, 449 theres an official order to destroy everything that mght anger god(oh yeah, thats stretchable.....) and so on and on.
tolerance and love? thousands killed, countless books and librarys burned down, persecution and tyranny.

i stayed away from far stretched interpretations and vivid images of "pagans" being murdered and mutilated since i ain't been there(differently as many a preacher does ;] ), but those examples of legislature might give you an idea.

christianity isn't evil, oppressive, or anything in the likes of that.
but it has potential. read your history book.
happened a lot of times, and suddenly everyone is all lovey-lovey? possible, but the nature of man as self righteous leaders has hardly evolved. and religion can be a great tool for oppression and mind control.

look at those evangelists. leaders. they control minds. they make money. they give hope. they give something to look down upon. YES. society is in a bad shape. and as stated by battlecry etc. corporate media, advertisement, pornography and so on are part of the whole.

for me personally i stand to those guys like to marx. i accept their analysis. think it's true. feel the problems of society and capitalism etc. .
but the solutions? omg, please no. not "everyones equal" communism(didnt work anyway, and always got stuck in dictatorship...). becoming a sheep in a BIIIG herd? loving everyone(at least saying so). believing in a 2k pages book to say the whole TRUTH(in every sentence, by itself i mean...)? yeah, right, whatever........


ok, i'm getting too long here, just one last point. ONE TRUTH??? boredom for the win. lets like open our hearts and all be happy and go to heaven and then? be happy? wait, just be happy all the time.(or joyous, thats what a christians supposed to be ,JOYOUS, since happiness comes from stuff happening to you as pastor greg put it and so on...^^) do you see the problem? eternity is.... eternal..... and then? but well, guess no one thinks to deeply about that if he's scared to death about death....

i've read the battle cry forums. i've been to bible study and sunday school(long time, not just as visitor or so). and everyones agreeing all the time. everyones nice all the time(honest?). *shudder*. so creepy.....


ps: i think it's okay that people marry and stay married. and that they think being gay sucks(i do too). and that you should go to church on sundays and so on.... most of them are great people, really, there are so many good christians i honestly love.

but why the f*** do you have to impose that on everyone else? why? WHY? WHY?????
because its right?? is it? for you? for everyone? should we get rid of questionmarks? they lead to evil i think!!!!!!
i'll cut out the metaphors, just think about it, sheesh ._.' ......

args, didnt read your article intense enough JP
thought you brought the old "christians persecuted in rome" stereotype and jumped on it.
big sorry for making you look ignorant and myself stupid^^.

but well, i guess what i said can just stand alone around there..... just as a general thing to say rather than a comment towards you, i left that territory in a lil' writing spree anyway.... *whistle*

It looks like you read the first three books of the bible and stopped there, I promise you if you finish reading the book (the Bible) you'll get your answers. And yes, the Word of God is unchanging, just some parts are allready fulfilled. As every one else has said, we really do love you!

yes, the Word is unchanging (except that it has been re-interpreted and re-edited by numerous people numerous times over hundreds of years)

yet still, some questions remain unanswered for today's faithful

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/1809014_comment.php#1811097

if you have the answers to these questions, please share them with the rest of us who often find the bible confusing and contradictory in today's world

I just wanted to share this great site called Religious Tolerance:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/

I am definitely on one side of this discussion and that is in favor of equal rights regardless of gender and keeping the state out of personal decisions.

But I think this site has a good balance of presenting both sides of important issues that are being discussed here. It's a great resource for greater understanding. It gives both sides on many issues and judges neither. (or at least I haven't found anything yet that seems like it.).

Here are two major issues where fundamentalist Christians and progressives often disagree. Have a look:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/homosexu.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abortion.htm

Thanks frigger for the inputs and the honesty to speak how you feel from as close to a fact base view as some might get, and especially for re reading my novel to find I had addressed briefly Constantine's christianity spin and how he used some portions of the bible and certain doctrines to rule over and kill people who deserved to live full free lives.

And your frustrations about church today and the christianeeze language that lacks real passion are my burden in being I am a christian who finds myself ministering to believers more than unbelievers.

Please understand that a lot, not all and maybe even only some, evangelicals really believe not just in an afterlife or judgement, but that the ideals and the Man they speak of really offer for you and anyone else the best life.

So think about this, if we are truly just trying to point you in what we believe a better way and not trying to just convince you to join our club so we can have more friends, then those sincere followers of the ways of Christ who share their faith not just try to tell others how they should live when they can not live that way themselves, but do so because they believe they are sharing something real good even the best; then even if you do not agree maybe those whom I speak of here would still be good friends to have.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_evan.htm

The term "Evangelical" has a wide range of meanings within Christianity.

On this web site, we define it as: "the conservative wing of Protestant Christianity, comprising many denominations and faith groups that tightly hold to historical Christian creeds, beliefs and practices."

"Evangelical" is an umbrella term which Includes Christian Identity, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal and Reconstructionist, some Baptist and many other groups of denominations.

Some examples of Evangelical denominations are: Assemblies of God, Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, black Protestants, African Methodist Episcopal, African Methodist Episcopal Zion; Church of Christ, Churches of God in Christ, Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, National Baptist Church, National Progressive Baptist Church, Nondenominational, Pentecostal denominations, and the Presbyterian Church in America. 1 Many theologians would also include as Evangelicals the conservative members and reform movements within such mainline denominations as the Episcopal Church, USA, the Presbyterian Church (USA), and the United Methodist Church.

In addition to the Evangelical wing, most theologians consider there to be two other main wings of Protestantism: the mainline and liberal denominations.

------------

Social concerns of particular interest to Evangelicals: (links at the site)
Abortion access
Biblical inerrancy
Creation Science vs Evolution
Equal rights for homosexuals
Same-sex marriage

I think you have part of it right. The context that is missing (and, perhaps, not well-defined) is what it "means" to be an Evangelical - e.g., that their belief is to "evangelize" (teach & convert to) Christianity on an active basis...?

There are additional links to different topics re evangelicism at the main link. One of them may speak more to your question. I won't be able to check it out until later tonight, but if you get to it first, let us know...

There's a lot of stuff here. This is just one piece of it. The site seems set up pretty logically to give information on different viewpoints in a what seems to me to be a fairly unbiased manner. Judge for yourself...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/evan_defn.htm

Usage of the term "Evangelical" in North America:
In North America, "Evangelical" does not have a unique meaning that is acceptable to all. Various groups and individuals define it as a specific conservative Christian system of beliefs, or a type of religious experience, or a commitment to proselytize the unsaved, or as a style of religious service, or as having a personal "walk with God," or as a group of denominations, or as a personal acceptance of a "biblical worldview," or as some combination of the above.