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Indybay Feature
In Falun Gong Flap, San Francisco Plays Safe With China
A city with a strong human rights tradition struggles to keep its edge as the sentimental favorite for Chinese investors. Eugenia Chien is a writer and editor for New America Media.
SAN FRANCISCO--In arguably the most liberal city in the United States, San Francisco's Board of Supervisors has passed resolutions denouncing everything from World Bank bonds, Afghanistan's Taliban, to the declawing of pet cats. But on Feb. 1, the usually righteous supervisors were muffled by the city's tremendous interest in doing business with China. They passed a resolution condemning the persecution of the meditation group Falun Gong but removed any reference to the persecutor, the Chinese government.
Falun Gong, a meditation group that Beijing called an "evil cult," was outlawed in China in 1999. The group came to the attention of the city's Board of Supervisors when it was banned by the San Francisco Chinese Chamber of Commerce from participating in this year's Chinese New Year Parade.
The annual parade in San Francisco is one of the biggest celebrations of Chinese New Year in the United States. Falun Gong has joined in the parade in past years. But this year, the Chinese Chamber of Commerce banned the group on the grounds that it is a political organization (the parade historically banned political groups from participating).
Falun Gong supporters said parade organizers are "doing the Chinese government's bidding" and filed a Superior Court lawsuit to stop the city from funding the event because of religious discrimination. The city underwrites $77,000 of the $800,000 parade budget.
They appealed for help from the San Francisco Board of Supervisors and ultimately won a resolution that condemns the religious persecution of Falun Gong. But the resolution had no teeth: it stopped short of naming China as the persecutor and did not discuss the parade issue at all.
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Falun Gong, a meditation group that Beijing called an "evil cult," was outlawed in China in 1999. The group came to the attention of the city's Board of Supervisors when it was banned by the San Francisco Chinese Chamber of Commerce from participating in this year's Chinese New Year Parade.
The annual parade in San Francisco is one of the biggest celebrations of Chinese New Year in the United States. Falun Gong has joined in the parade in past years. But this year, the Chinese Chamber of Commerce banned the group on the grounds that it is a political organization (the parade historically banned political groups from participating).
Falun Gong supporters said parade organizers are "doing the Chinese government's bidding" and filed a Superior Court lawsuit to stop the city from funding the event because of religious discrimination. The city underwrites $77,000 of the $800,000 parade budget.
They appealed for help from the San Francisco Board of Supervisors and ultimately won a resolution that condemns the religious persecution of Falun Gong. But the resolution had no teeth: it stopped short of naming China as the persecutor and did not discuss the parade issue at all.
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For more information:
http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_articl...
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These anti-queer creeps are just that.
Outrunning China's Web Cops
Net-savvy outfits are finding ways to let citizens see banned sites
From an undisclosed location in North Carolina, Bill Xia is fighting a lonely war against China's censors. From morning till well into the night, the Chinese native plays a cat-and-mouse game, exploiting openings in Beijing's formidable Internet firewall and trying to keep ahead of the cybercops who patrol the Web 24-7 and have an uncanny ability to plug holes as quickly as Xia finds them. A member of the banned Chinese sect Falun Gong, Xia is so fearful that Beijing will persecute his family back in China, that he refused to be photographed for this story, reveal where exactly he was born, or even provide his age beyond saying he's in his 30s.
Read the rest:
Net-savvy outfits are finding ways to let citizens see banned sites
From an undisclosed location in North Carolina, Bill Xia is fighting a lonely war against China's censors. From morning till well into the night, the Chinese native plays a cat-and-mouse game, exploiting openings in Beijing's formidable Internet firewall and trying to keep ahead of the cybercops who patrol the Web 24-7 and have an uncanny ability to plug holes as quickly as Xia finds them. A member of the banned Chinese sect Falun Gong, Xia is so fearful that Beijing will persecute his family back in China, that he refused to be photographed for this story, reveal where exactly he was born, or even provide his age beyond saying he's in his 30s.
Read the rest:
For more information:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...
Just wondering if Falun Gong is really homophobic like the claim states. Although Falun Gong takes the media stage away from sweatshop workers when talking about abuse from the Chinese government, the claim of Falun gong being homophobic and racist may be a publicity propaganda campaign waged by the Chinese government similar to the accusation that pro-Palestinian activists who critisize the apartheid Israeli government are anti-Semitic. Always easier to demonize a small group of activists than try to look deeper into what they are saying..
My instinct is to side with Falun Gong's position whereas;
1) The Chinese government is not truly following the teachings of pro-worker communism. If anything, the Chinese government endorses wage slavery in sweatshops throughout China. The products so inexpensive at US Wal-marts are imported from Chinese sweatshops..
2) Industrialization and mega dam projects in China only benefit the industrialists, not the people. The effect of these massive energy projects on the chinese people is displacement from flooding (Three Gorges dam) and air pollution from coal burning plants that provide enegry to the sweatshop factories..
3) The Chinese government does not respect the human rights of the Chinese people, nor do they respect the ecosystem. Falun Gong may have some quirks and flaws, though they are not nearly as corrupt and brutal as the psuedo-Communist Chinese government, the swaetshop supplier of Wal-mart..
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/en/web/article.php?article_id=50306
"Yet again, it is evident that whatever attempts Wal-Mart is making to clean up its factories in China have not been enough. Workers at the Huangwu No. 2 Toy Factory in Dongguan City report that there have been inspections, but the factory was warned ahead of time and was therefore prepared. Workers were told what to say and how to answer questions. The inspections accomplished nothing.
Here are some of the things the inspectors at Huangwu No. 2 Toy Factory did not have a chance to see:
There are few safety precautions for any of the workers. Those who work with oil-based paint or glue report that their hands become caked and dry and often crack and bleed. Due to the rudimentary face masks given to workers in the paint-spraying department, one worker recently inhaled so many paint fumes he experienced numerous nose bleeds and had to take time off to go to the hospital. When he returned, his nose simply started to bleed again. Despite this, he has yet to be given better safety gear."
http://www.organicconsumers.org/politics/walmart32905.cfm
Three Gorges Probe;
http://www.probeinternational.org/tgp/index.cfm
My instinct is to side with Falun Gong's position whereas;
1) The Chinese government is not truly following the teachings of pro-worker communism. If anything, the Chinese government endorses wage slavery in sweatshops throughout China. The products so inexpensive at US Wal-marts are imported from Chinese sweatshops..
2) Industrialization and mega dam projects in China only benefit the industrialists, not the people. The effect of these massive energy projects on the chinese people is displacement from flooding (Three Gorges dam) and air pollution from coal burning plants that provide enegry to the sweatshop factories..
3) The Chinese government does not respect the human rights of the Chinese people, nor do they respect the ecosystem. Falun Gong may have some quirks and flaws, though they are not nearly as corrupt and brutal as the psuedo-Communist Chinese government, the swaetshop supplier of Wal-mart..
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/en/web/article.php?article_id=50306
"Yet again, it is evident that whatever attempts Wal-Mart is making to clean up its factories in China have not been enough. Workers at the Huangwu No. 2 Toy Factory in Dongguan City report that there have been inspections, but the factory was warned ahead of time and was therefore prepared. Workers were told what to say and how to answer questions. The inspections accomplished nothing.
Here are some of the things the inspectors at Huangwu No. 2 Toy Factory did not have a chance to see:
There are few safety precautions for any of the workers. Those who work with oil-based paint or glue report that their hands become caked and dry and often crack and bleed. Due to the rudimentary face masks given to workers in the paint-spraying department, one worker recently inhaled so many paint fumes he experienced numerous nose bleeds and had to take time off to go to the hospital. When he returned, his nose simply started to bleed again. Despite this, he has yet to be given better safety gear."
http://www.organicconsumers.org/politics/walmart32905.cfm
Three Gorges Probe;
http://www.probeinternational.org/tgp/index.cfm
A lot of objections to the Chinese government have the air of grasping at any straw with which to smear it. Like, for example, that whole "Free Tibet" thing. Was Tibet really any freer under a downright medieval theocracy? Likewise "sweatshop labor"-- wages that seem low to San Franciscans, or even Americans in general, might be high by local standards. Did you never wonder why Mexicans were willing to take such risks sneaking into the country for such low wages at such bad jobs? Because the minimum wage (and prices too) are so low in Mexico. Five dollars an hour, to someone from such an economy, is like making 40 or 50 an hour here. As for hard work, it's nothing to envy. Have you ever? Well, Americans certainly enjoy the fruits of it, whether from their own labor or from someone else's, as our monstrous trade deficit readily illustrates.
As for workplace atrocities (i.e. the nosebleed thing). One can come up with antecdotal atrocities from any society. Does that illegitimize the Chinese government? And if so, what to replace it with? And what guarantees that such a government won't allow more of the same? Go rent and watch "Silkwood" again and get back to us on that, won't you? Bhopal, anyone?
I would seriously ask people to reflect on whether things are better, now that the USSR doesn't exist to counterbalance the American military threat to the Earth's survival, before going after the last, strongest communist government on Earth. Particularly one with the widespread support of its people, such as the Chinese government enjoys, not least for its role in creating an amazing engine of economic growth whose benefits most people in the country enjoy in some form or another (wages, healthcare, education....). Overfed westerners might deride this as market-fetishism, but for most of a billion chinese peasants, it represents the first chance ever to rise above the literal mud of subsistence farming. Such people might prefer a bit of censorship to your poverty-fetishism. In fact, most Chinese do support their government-- with the exception of occasional discontented college students, expatriates, and religious weirdos. Show me a country where the situation is any different.... and I'll show a dictatorial US puppet regime. Which is too bad, but it's a national security imperative, because the American way of life depends on it.
After all, we got a right to enjoy the fruits of others' sweat. Right?
As for workplace atrocities (i.e. the nosebleed thing). One can come up with antecdotal atrocities from any society. Does that illegitimize the Chinese government? And if so, what to replace it with? And what guarantees that such a government won't allow more of the same? Go rent and watch "Silkwood" again and get back to us on that, won't you? Bhopal, anyone?
I would seriously ask people to reflect on whether things are better, now that the USSR doesn't exist to counterbalance the American military threat to the Earth's survival, before going after the last, strongest communist government on Earth. Particularly one with the widespread support of its people, such as the Chinese government enjoys, not least for its role in creating an amazing engine of economic growth whose benefits most people in the country enjoy in some form or another (wages, healthcare, education....). Overfed westerners might deride this as market-fetishism, but for most of a billion chinese peasants, it represents the first chance ever to rise above the literal mud of subsistence farming. Such people might prefer a bit of censorship to your poverty-fetishism. In fact, most Chinese do support their government-- with the exception of occasional discontented college students, expatriates, and religious weirdos. Show me a country where the situation is any different.... and I'll show a dictatorial US puppet regime. Which is too bad, but it's a national security imperative, because the American way of life depends on it.
After all, we got a right to enjoy the fruits of others' sweat. Right?
The average American's understanding of China's invasion of Tibet is severely manipulated and just simply abysmal, and "grasping at straws" is **EXACTLY** what this government and media have been doing at every possible opportunity for the past 57 years. Meanwhile if you look at how fucked over everyone in China was BEFORE Mao, when they were ruled by ruthlessly corrupt Western imperial collaborators, you understand why they united under him so solidly that a 22-year siege on all fronts -- another world war in itself -- only strengthened him. Cuba is an identical case. After Castro took over, the people as a whole would have walked through hell for him, and they had their reasons. That's why Nazi America has never taken him down no matter what they've tried for 47 years. But you never see any of this explained in Reader's Digest, do you?
Toothless: "Nazi America."
That one's a keeper.
@%<
That one's a keeper.
@%<
And China harvesting its political prisoners organs for resale? Its re-cycling, dude!
it's certainly much better to poison convicts to death, so that utterly no good comes out of capital punishment, like in the usa. let the market relegate life-saving organ transplants to those who can afford scarce parts, and/or are "lucky" enough to win one in a lottery.
much better than those eee-vil, fiendish, chinese commies, always thinking of what serves the masses best...
much better than those eee-vil, fiendish, chinese commies, always thinking of what serves the masses best...
Uh, sweetie pie- the chinese organs are sold to the highest bidder.
Whatever serves the masters best......
Whatever serves the masters best......
So to our resident hypocrites, medieval theocracy is BAD if its Tibet but medieval theocracy is GOOD if its Hamas and the Palestinians. "Occupation" is good if its China occupying Tibet but its a war crime if Palestinians are involved. Very revealing!
How about that bastion of Zio-nazi run repressive neo-con agendas, Human rights watch?
http://hrw.org/reports/1994/china1/china_948.htm
"Expert estimates of the percentage of organs used in transplant operations that are obtained from executed criminals are consistently high. One Western transplantation surgeon who left China in the early 1990s reported that over 90 percent of all transplanted kidneys, which constitute the great majority of organs for transplant, came from executed prisoners.And a study conducted by a surgeon at the Prince of Wales Hospital in Hong Kong found that 75 percent of kidney transplant patients from Hong Kong who underwent operations in China had received their new organs from executed prisoners. "
While there are no statistics available detailing who the recipients of organ transplants are, the majority are probably mainland Chinese citizens. Government cadres, however, are reportedly given preferential status for organ procurement. Doctors at the Shenzhen People's Armed Police Hospital told a former Intermediate Court judge that they would be particularly happy to accommodate his request to obtain a donated kidney for his brother, since they wanted the court to help in arranging a steady supply of executed prisoners' organs. And according to a recent investigative article in a Hong Kong magazine, hospitals usually make a special effort to meet expeditiously the needs of cadres requiring organ transplants:
In the senior cadre wards of high-level hospitals, organ needs are recorded promptly. Instructions from the [Party] leadership say that medical departments should naturally expend every possible effort to meet the needs of loyal servants of the revolution, and so organs from condemned prisoners are first of all reserved for their use. Long before the prisoner is executed...his or her health records, details of blood type and so forth will have been sent to the hospital, which then merely waits for the bullet being fired.
Prompt organ transplant surgery is known to be widely available in China for high-paying foreign or overseas Chinese patients also. Patients are told exactly when they should arrive at the hospital, and the organs duly arrive on time. Quite how hospitals meet patient needs so quickly is a question with grave legal and medical ethics implications, for it would clearly suggest that execution dates are scheduled to conform with patient transplantation needs, rather than with the strict requirements of due legal process. "
http://hrw.org/reports/1994/china1/china_948.htm
"Expert estimates of the percentage of organs used in transplant operations that are obtained from executed criminals are consistently high. One Western transplantation surgeon who left China in the early 1990s reported that over 90 percent of all transplanted kidneys, which constitute the great majority of organs for transplant, came from executed prisoners.And a study conducted by a surgeon at the Prince of Wales Hospital in Hong Kong found that 75 percent of kidney transplant patients from Hong Kong who underwent operations in China had received their new organs from executed prisoners. "
While there are no statistics available detailing who the recipients of organ transplants are, the majority are probably mainland Chinese citizens. Government cadres, however, are reportedly given preferential status for organ procurement. Doctors at the Shenzhen People's Armed Police Hospital told a former Intermediate Court judge that they would be particularly happy to accommodate his request to obtain a donated kidney for his brother, since they wanted the court to help in arranging a steady supply of executed prisoners' organs. And according to a recent investigative article in a Hong Kong magazine, hospitals usually make a special effort to meet expeditiously the needs of cadres requiring organ transplants:
In the senior cadre wards of high-level hospitals, organ needs are recorded promptly. Instructions from the [Party] leadership say that medical departments should naturally expend every possible effort to meet the needs of loyal servants of the revolution, and so organs from condemned prisoners are first of all reserved for their use. Long before the prisoner is executed...his or her health records, details of blood type and so forth will have been sent to the hospital, which then merely waits for the bullet being fired.
Prompt organ transplant surgery is known to be widely available in China for high-paying foreign or overseas Chinese patients also. Patients are told exactly when they should arrive at the hospital, and the organs duly arrive on time. Quite how hospitals meet patient needs so quickly is a question with grave legal and medical ethics implications, for it would clearly suggest that execution dates are scheduled to conform with patient transplantation needs, rather than with the strict requirements of due legal process. "
Like, for example, that whole "Free Tibet" thing. Was Tibet really any freer under a downright medieval theocracy?
What's there not to understand, you imperialistic warpig? In 1951 thousands of Chinese troops marched into Lhasa. The forcible occupation of Tibet was marked by systematic destruction of monasteries, suppression of religion, denial of political freedom, widespread arrests and the imprisonment and massacre of innocents.
The Tibetan resistance culminated in the Tibetan National Uprising against the Chinese in Lhasa. Thousands of men, women and children were massacred in the streets . Others were imprisoned and deported. Monks and nuns were a prime target. Monasteries and temples were shelled.
There are now over one hundred thousand Tibetan refugees all over the world. It has been over 50 years since the Chinese occupied Tibet and the ethnic cleansing of a culture began. What is it exactly that the Americans don't understand?
"The average American's understanding of China's invasion of Tibet is severely manipulated and just simply abysmal" What don't we understand, warpig? How do you justify the destruction of a people? You and your ilk in are only interested in spreading your own imperialistic political agenda- you care nothing for the free people of the world.
What's there not to understand, you imperialistic warpig? In 1951 thousands of Chinese troops marched into Lhasa. The forcible occupation of Tibet was marked by systematic destruction of monasteries, suppression of religion, denial of political freedom, widespread arrests and the imprisonment and massacre of innocents.
The Tibetan resistance culminated in the Tibetan National Uprising against the Chinese in Lhasa. Thousands of men, women and children were massacred in the streets . Others were imprisoned and deported. Monks and nuns were a prime target. Monasteries and temples were shelled.
There are now over one hundred thousand Tibetan refugees all over the world. It has been over 50 years since the Chinese occupied Tibet and the ethnic cleansing of a culture began. What is it exactly that the Americans don't understand?
"The average American's understanding of China's invasion of Tibet is severely manipulated and just simply abysmal" What don't we understand, warpig? How do you justify the destruction of a people? You and your ilk in are only interested in spreading your own imperialistic political agenda- you care nothing for the free people of the world.
TW's hypocritical "anti-imperialism" of anything concerning US foreign policy has been pointed out crystally clear. The evidence of his double standard couldn't be plainer.
Usually, Americans travelling abroad are shocked, yes shocked to learn that "foreigners" care very little for "human rights" lectures from Americans.
To most people in the world, the US is the source of most "human rights" corruption and betrayal. (Extra credit: who defined what are and aren't human rights? Why do some things like private property count and others, like a dignified old age, don't? Because the capitalists made all the rules.... including a lot of the ones in your head, apparently...)
The fact that the situation in and because of our country is so scandalously bad, seems to imply that we're in no position to go around labeling, judging, or punishing the sins of others. Everyone gets that-- everyone but Americans, here to save the Chinese and Tibet while they're at it.
Here, we execute innocents, minorities, children and the disabled right along with the bad, and we just poison the body and dump it in the ground. Is this "enlightened" progress? Well, at least it's not corrupt, right? (That happened back in all-the-justice-you-can-afford court.) You want something to save? Stick your head out your fucking door during daylight hours for once (does not apply in the suburbs). Walk five minutes. Still haven't found an atrocity to save someone from? Get on a bus to Bayview/Hunter's Point. Let us know how that worked out when you get home... if you get home....
No, no, China bad! Hamas bad! those eee-vil Jews! anyone, anything, hey everyone-- look over there. Spread the word, over there! for the Yanks are coming, the yanks...
You'll be surprised how ineffective this um little critique of yours is, outside of US national borders. THAT is the point in defending China. It is not to say they have never ever sinned, their government is full of angels and saints and we are mere baboons screeching at their feet.
Rather, it is exactly to argue that under different standards and imperatives (namely, gasp, their own), the Chinese government is delivering a better life to a billion people on sheer willpower and sacrifices generations long in the making. Average Chinese people have, do, and will benefit from these "miracles" every day and for a long time to come. Why the fuck not, doughboy? And I don't see no US troops marching in to reprivatize their service sector either, now do you? Wanna venture what the life of the average Chinese peasant was like under Chang Kai Shek? Whozzat? Fuck you.
If only the US government had half as much to show for their corruptions, crimes and inconsistencies. (Well, we DO need that oil. It gives us all SO MUCH to be thankful for come November.) Show me government, anywhere, anytime, and I'll show you the things of which you complain. Show me communism, and at least the people are benefitting from the inconveniences of governance. Yes even under the "bad" regimes.
Remember that when your liver quits from too much failed-revolutionary sorrow-abatement down at the local pub, and you die waiting for the spare.
Bonus track: "poor Tibetan genocide victims" translates roughly into American English as "Native America." Go preach at the Brits or something.... even the Catholic Fucking Church wasn't as vicious as your great-great grandpappy was....
To most people in the world, the US is the source of most "human rights" corruption and betrayal. (Extra credit: who defined what are and aren't human rights? Why do some things like private property count and others, like a dignified old age, don't? Because the capitalists made all the rules.... including a lot of the ones in your head, apparently...)
The fact that the situation in and because of our country is so scandalously bad, seems to imply that we're in no position to go around labeling, judging, or punishing the sins of others. Everyone gets that-- everyone but Americans, here to save the Chinese and Tibet while they're at it.
Here, we execute innocents, minorities, children and the disabled right along with the bad, and we just poison the body and dump it in the ground. Is this "enlightened" progress? Well, at least it's not corrupt, right? (That happened back in all-the-justice-you-can-afford court.) You want something to save? Stick your head out your fucking door during daylight hours for once (does not apply in the suburbs). Walk five minutes. Still haven't found an atrocity to save someone from? Get on a bus to Bayview/Hunter's Point. Let us know how that worked out when you get home... if you get home....
No, no, China bad! Hamas bad! those eee-vil Jews! anyone, anything, hey everyone-- look over there. Spread the word, over there! for the Yanks are coming, the yanks...
You'll be surprised how ineffective this um little critique of yours is, outside of US national borders. THAT is the point in defending China. It is not to say they have never ever sinned, their government is full of angels and saints and we are mere baboons screeching at their feet.
Rather, it is exactly to argue that under different standards and imperatives (namely, gasp, their own), the Chinese government is delivering a better life to a billion people on sheer willpower and sacrifices generations long in the making. Average Chinese people have, do, and will benefit from these "miracles" every day and for a long time to come. Why the fuck not, doughboy? And I don't see no US troops marching in to reprivatize their service sector either, now do you? Wanna venture what the life of the average Chinese peasant was like under Chang Kai Shek? Whozzat? Fuck you.
If only the US government had half as much to show for their corruptions, crimes and inconsistencies. (Well, we DO need that oil. It gives us all SO MUCH to be thankful for come November.) Show me government, anywhere, anytime, and I'll show you the things of which you complain. Show me communism, and at least the people are benefitting from the inconveniences of governance. Yes even under the "bad" regimes.
Remember that when your liver quits from too much failed-revolutionary sorrow-abatement down at the local pub, and you die waiting for the spare.
Bonus track: "poor Tibetan genocide victims" translates roughly into American English as "Native America." Go preach at the Brits or something.... even the Catholic Fucking Church wasn't as vicious as your great-great grandpappy was....
Leave it to Google to fix China's little red wagon.
Captial penetration will lead to free markets (the only "free" that matters, baby), which will in time undermine corrupt dictatorships, replacing them with all the freedoms and joys of a western-compliant "democracy."
All together now: Aaaaaaa-meeeeeen.
Captial penetration will lead to free markets (the only "free" that matters, baby), which will in time undermine corrupt dictatorships, replacing them with all the freedoms and joys of a western-compliant "democracy."
All together now: Aaaaaaa-meeeeeen.
Leave it to the USA to figure them out, too.
For more information:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story...
Show me government, anywhere, anytime, and I'll show you the things of which you complain. Show me communism, and at least the people are benefitting from the inconveniences of governance. Yes even under the "bad" regimes.
Then why the hell are so many Chinese lining up to come to America, doughboy? Why not the other way around? Some fucking paradise it must be.
Then why the hell are so many Chinese lining up to come to America, doughboy? Why not the other way around? Some fucking paradise it must be.
Rather, it is exactly to argue that under different standards and imperatives (namely, gasp, their own), the Chinese government is delivering a better life to a billion people on sheer willpower and sacrifices generations long in the making.
And the Tibetans be damned? The pleasures of the majority outway the simple right of a people to live in peace? The Chinese invaded, and are systematically destroying an entire culture! What part of this don't you understand? This is ethnic cleansing. This is genocide. And you simply look away, because as long as China grows and expands, you can purchase 88 dollar DVD players and maintain your fuckin lifestyle! This is about your purchasing power- your selfish need to acquire- and your imperialistic tendencies.
If America starting harvesting the internal organs of executed prisoners, would you be applauding? You think its such a great idea- propose it on Indybay- write to your congressmen. See what kind of feedback you get.
Self righteous hypocrite.
And the Tibetans be damned? The pleasures of the majority outway the simple right of a people to live in peace? The Chinese invaded, and are systematically destroying an entire culture! What part of this don't you understand? This is ethnic cleansing. This is genocide. And you simply look away, because as long as China grows and expands, you can purchase 88 dollar DVD players and maintain your fuckin lifestyle! This is about your purchasing power- your selfish need to acquire- and your imperialistic tendencies.
If America starting harvesting the internal organs of executed prisoners, would you be applauding? You think its such a great idea- propose it on Indybay- write to your congressmen. See what kind of feedback you get.
Self righteous hypocrite.
Someone covering up and not caring about attempts at ethnic cleansing of Israeli Jews by Palis can't be counted on to give two hoots about ethnic cleansing of Tibetans by Chinese.
TW: I would *never* wrap myself in the flag of a country that's doing to a people what Israel has done to the Palestinians.
Interlocutor: You appear to be wrapping yourself in the flag of China, in spite of what it has done to the people of Tibet. Genocide and ethnic cleansing is just fine as long as its the Tibetans, eh? Real righteous. So, troubled weasel, tell us please. Why are the Tibetans expendable in your grand scheme?
BTW... There's at least one more of us than just TW. Nice try though.
It seems that at least some individuals here would prefer to switch to personality, than debate the issues on their face. The sudden documentation-fetishism notwithstanding, this is a primarily ideological dispute. I for one don't mind us not all agreeing, but this tendancy to personalize debates makes the far left as bad as the far right on these things. Quacks like a duck and all that... Tsk tsk. Insert more painfully-barbed "self-righteous hypocrisy" here. Oh hurt me.
While we're at it, maybe all y'all can talk Bush/Cheney into invading China and liberating Tibet for ya, when they're done with Syria, Iran, and North Korea. That is, if Google hasn't saved the Chinese from themselves for the sake of your delicate sensibilities by then.
They're also in it for the human rights, you know. Nothing's too good, no cost too high, when it comes to saving other peoples from themselves, ya know. It's the American way! Perhaps such a move would only be a logical extension of your own priorities and values, as articulated here, after all.
"Spread the word
Over there!
For the yanks are coming,
The yanks are coming....."
It seems that at least some individuals here would prefer to switch to personality, than debate the issues on their face. The sudden documentation-fetishism notwithstanding, this is a primarily ideological dispute. I for one don't mind us not all agreeing, but this tendancy to personalize debates makes the far left as bad as the far right on these things. Quacks like a duck and all that... Tsk tsk. Insert more painfully-barbed "self-righteous hypocrisy" here. Oh hurt me.
While we're at it, maybe all y'all can talk Bush/Cheney into invading China and liberating Tibet for ya, when they're done with Syria, Iran, and North Korea. That is, if Google hasn't saved the Chinese from themselves for the sake of your delicate sensibilities by then.
They're also in it for the human rights, you know. Nothing's too good, no cost too high, when it comes to saving other peoples from themselves, ya know. It's the American way! Perhaps such a move would only be a logical extension of your own priorities and values, as articulated here, after all.
"Spread the word
Over there!
For the yanks are coming,
The yanks are coming....."
BTW... There's at least one more of us than just TW.
Thats a relief. He's quite certifiable, you know.
Nice try though.
if at first you don't suceed.....
It seems that at least some individuals here would prefer to switch to personality, than debate the issues on their face.
The sudden documentation-fetishism notwithstanding, this is a primarily ideological dispute. I for one don't mind us not all agreeing, but this tendancy to personalize debates makes the far left as bad as the far right on these things. Quacks like a duck and all that... Tsk tsk. Insert more painfully-barbed "self-righteous hypocrisy" here.
You are absolutely right.
Oh hurt me.
Only if you beg ; - )
Thats a relief. He's quite certifiable, you know.
Nice try though.
if at first you don't suceed.....
It seems that at least some individuals here would prefer to switch to personality, than debate the issues on their face.
The sudden documentation-fetishism notwithstanding, this is a primarily ideological dispute. I for one don't mind us not all agreeing, but this tendancy to personalize debates makes the far left as bad as the far right on these things. Quacks like a duck and all that... Tsk tsk. Insert more painfully-barbed "self-righteous hypocrisy" here.
You are absolutely right.
Oh hurt me.
Only if you beg ; - )
China's old guard warns censors of 'social disaster'
· Ex-aide of Mao Zedong attacks media crackdown
· Web statement escalates row over free speech
http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,,1710025,00.html
· Ex-aide of Mao Zedong attacks media crackdown
· Web statement escalates row over free speech
http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,,1710025,00.html
http://hrw.org/reports/1994/china1/china_948.htm
Ah yes, the "prison organs" issue is 12 YEARS OLD, and here these fuckheads are climbing all over it as if it's going on this minute. That LIE is embedded in their language all through this thread. Meanwhile, China has cleaned up its act on this. If it hadn't, they could come up with something more recent. Meanwhile, what was Nazi America, the shining light unto the world, doing in 1994? Oh just arranging for 1,000,000 Iraqi babies to die of dysentery, that's all. Why would zios care? What's it done since then? Oh, shit just as evil continuously, that's all
Mind your own skeletons, fuckheads
"What's there not to understand, you imperialistic warpig?"
This captures perfectly what a bunch of lying lunatics we've got on our hands here with these frothing anti-commie koo-koos. Anyone who looks back on US Cold war propaganda as a pack of manipulative lies (which it was) and strives to grasp the ambiguities of the REAL history is, in their eyes, an "imperialistic warpig." Yes, u-u-u-u-u-vv course.
While we're at it:
War is peace
Truth is lies
Ignorance is strength
Any questions?
These are fascists, a.k.a. "neocons," okay? This is how severely alienated fascists ALWAYS are from anything vaguely resembling reality.
China is not expansionist. It never has been in all its 3,000 years as a high civilization. Ruthless cancerous unlimited expansionism is a Western European (yiddophone Ashkenazim) thing.
When Mao's revolution succeeded in 1949, the United States immediately launched a covert war that grew into a 22-year full-scale siege on the order of a Third World War. It funded and supported a secret army of Kuomintang terrorists who were being infiltrated across any unguarded border or coastline available. One of this secret war's biggest centers of activity was northern Burma, proximal to easternmost Tibet. The CIA, in the form of its "civilian" front 'Air America' or 'Civil Air Transport (CAT)' was the main support for the North Burmese bases, maintaining massive airlift operations delivering war materiel, provisions, etc. with "made in U.S.A." stamped all over them.
Meanwhile the U.S. was also invading Korea (possibly the bloodiest of all post-WWII US conquests; still disregarded as such), and were making big moves into French Indochina already. All this was to encircle China, to harass and destabilize it and bleed its energy in any possible way.
So tell me, which are the TRUE "imperialistic warpigs?" The country that invades another next door, or the one that arrogantly swaggers all over the far hemisphere of the planet, killing 6,000,000 people in the process?
Take your time, neocon hypocrites.
China's first priority after the revolution therefore (and by no choice of their own; given their druthers they'd have concentrated on basics like building a civilian economy) rapidly became a military effort to seal the country's immense frontiers from this assault. The Kuomintang concentrated on China's western frontier for a reason: it was highly vulnerable, consisting of incredibly rugged sparsely populated mountain terrain very difficult to seal and patrol. Over the course of the '50s the Burmese government got sick of the KMT thugs (they really were) and ran them off to Laos where they became kingpins of the CIA's blossoming "Golden Triangle" Heroin kingdom. "French" Connection, my white ass! The CIA effort to sustain a proxy assault on Western China thus shifted its attention to Tibet
Meanwhile, yes China invaded Tibet in 1951 -- for the reasons I've explained -- but they did not smash the theocracy right away. They were willing to allow a degree of cultural continuity. In 1956 to '58, as the United States scaled up its covert guerrilla operations and the Chinese discovered the Dalai Lama's government was collaborating in this, its tolerance evaporated real quick.
http://tinyurl.com/cedpf
The Dalai Lama likes to tell this story differently because he's a skulking US-empire pet weasel, i.e. a pretty typical monarchist. When Mister "Wondrous Pacifist Enlightenment" reviewed the troops in '58, he bitched at them because they weren't efficient enough killers yet. This guy is one of the biggest frauds of the 20th century, and so are his politics. Hey, Tibet's the ultimate fortress, sealed off behind the highest mountains on earth, still extremely isolated to this day, so how are you gonna get "the other side of the story" on this? It's the perfect scam. Of course, if you're a doctrinaire know-it-all "I have the moral high ground" posturing neocon zionist fuckhead, you don't care a whit that there IS another side to the story.
What's going with these neocon fuckheads in this thread is a subject of greater interest. Before the '67 Six-Day War, U.S. Jews were not obsessed with Israel and were very involved in leftist politics. After the '67 war, it's like a lot of them had a psychotic break and became the most fanatical Cold War fascists ever seen. This fascist metamorphosis is still unfolding, mediated (as usual) by 'identity politics.' This explains the Jewish neocon phenomenon ENTIRELY. Prior to '67, they were all Marxist/Trotskyists.
Finally, Harriet:
"Thats a relief. He's quite certifiable, you know."
This is not the first time your mask has slipped. So all the while you were feigning interest in "sincere" discussion, you were actually just toying with me, weren't you? This reveals yet again what a profoundly self-centered lying asshole you are, and in this you merely represent zionist neocon maniacs as a whole.
Ah yes, the "prison organs" issue is 12 YEARS OLD, and here these fuckheads are climbing all over it as if it's going on this minute. That LIE is embedded in their language all through this thread. Meanwhile, China has cleaned up its act on this. If it hadn't, they could come up with something more recent. Meanwhile, what was Nazi America, the shining light unto the world, doing in 1994? Oh just arranging for 1,000,000 Iraqi babies to die of dysentery, that's all. Why would zios care? What's it done since then? Oh, shit just as evil continuously, that's all
Mind your own skeletons, fuckheads
"What's there not to understand, you imperialistic warpig?"
This captures perfectly what a bunch of lying lunatics we've got on our hands here with these frothing anti-commie koo-koos. Anyone who looks back on US Cold war propaganda as a pack of manipulative lies (which it was) and strives to grasp the ambiguities of the REAL history is, in their eyes, an "imperialistic warpig." Yes, u-u-u-u-u-vv course.
While we're at it:
War is peace
Truth is lies
Ignorance is strength
Any questions?
These are fascists, a.k.a. "neocons," okay? This is how severely alienated fascists ALWAYS are from anything vaguely resembling reality.
China is not expansionist. It never has been in all its 3,000 years as a high civilization. Ruthless cancerous unlimited expansionism is a Western European (yiddophone Ashkenazim) thing.
When Mao's revolution succeeded in 1949, the United States immediately launched a covert war that grew into a 22-year full-scale siege on the order of a Third World War. It funded and supported a secret army of Kuomintang terrorists who were being infiltrated across any unguarded border or coastline available. One of this secret war's biggest centers of activity was northern Burma, proximal to easternmost Tibet. The CIA, in the form of its "civilian" front 'Air America' or 'Civil Air Transport (CAT)' was the main support for the North Burmese bases, maintaining massive airlift operations delivering war materiel, provisions, etc. with "made in U.S.A." stamped all over them.
Meanwhile the U.S. was also invading Korea (possibly the bloodiest of all post-WWII US conquests; still disregarded as such), and were making big moves into French Indochina already. All this was to encircle China, to harass and destabilize it and bleed its energy in any possible way.
So tell me, which are the TRUE "imperialistic warpigs?" The country that invades another next door, or the one that arrogantly swaggers all over the far hemisphere of the planet, killing 6,000,000 people in the process?
Take your time, neocon hypocrites.
China's first priority after the revolution therefore (and by no choice of their own; given their druthers they'd have concentrated on basics like building a civilian economy) rapidly became a military effort to seal the country's immense frontiers from this assault. The Kuomintang concentrated on China's western frontier for a reason: it was highly vulnerable, consisting of incredibly rugged sparsely populated mountain terrain very difficult to seal and patrol. Over the course of the '50s the Burmese government got sick of the KMT thugs (they really were) and ran them off to Laos where they became kingpins of the CIA's blossoming "Golden Triangle" Heroin kingdom. "French" Connection, my white ass! The CIA effort to sustain a proxy assault on Western China thus shifted its attention to Tibet
Meanwhile, yes China invaded Tibet in 1951 -- for the reasons I've explained -- but they did not smash the theocracy right away. They were willing to allow a degree of cultural continuity. In 1956 to '58, as the United States scaled up its covert guerrilla operations and the Chinese discovered the Dalai Lama's government was collaborating in this, its tolerance evaporated real quick.
http://tinyurl.com/cedpf
The Dalai Lama likes to tell this story differently because he's a skulking US-empire pet weasel, i.e. a pretty typical monarchist. When Mister "Wondrous Pacifist Enlightenment" reviewed the troops in '58, he bitched at them because they weren't efficient enough killers yet. This guy is one of the biggest frauds of the 20th century, and so are his politics. Hey, Tibet's the ultimate fortress, sealed off behind the highest mountains on earth, still extremely isolated to this day, so how are you gonna get "the other side of the story" on this? It's the perfect scam. Of course, if you're a doctrinaire know-it-all "I have the moral high ground" posturing neocon zionist fuckhead, you don't care a whit that there IS another side to the story.
What's going with these neocon fuckheads in this thread is a subject of greater interest. Before the '67 Six-Day War, U.S. Jews were not obsessed with Israel and were very involved in leftist politics. After the '67 war, it's like a lot of them had a psychotic break and became the most fanatical Cold War fascists ever seen. This fascist metamorphosis is still unfolding, mediated (as usual) by 'identity politics.' This explains the Jewish neocon phenomenon ENTIRELY. Prior to '67, they were all Marxist/Trotskyists.
Finally, Harriet:
"Thats a relief. He's quite certifiable, you know."
This is not the first time your mask has slipped. So all the while you were feigning interest in "sincere" discussion, you were actually just toying with me, weren't you? This reveals yet again what a profoundly self-centered lying asshole you are, and in this you merely represent zionist neocon maniacs as a whole.
China has cleaned up its act on this?
Show me the url, twitching wombat.
And you, hypocrtical tiny wit, you who finds it relevant to bring up 60 year old "history" to prove your points, you are disregarding something 12 years old? It is to laugh
Show me the url, twitching wombat.
And you, hypocrtical tiny wit, you who finds it relevant to bring up 60 year old "history" to prove your points, you are disregarding something 12 years old? It is to laugh
You heard it hear first folks. TW calls the Dahli Lama "one of the biggest frauds of the 20th century"
Is he also a neo-con? A judea-phile? Is the Dahli Lama on the long list of those you hate, along with me, amazon dot com and college freshmen?
Certifiable? I think so.
Its time for the nice young men in their clean white suits to come and take you away.
Make the world a more beautiful place. Lock TW away.
Is he also a neo-con? A judea-phile? Is the Dahli Lama on the long list of those you hate, along with me, amazon dot com and college freshmen?
Certifiable? I think so.
Its time for the nice young men in their clean white suits to come and take you away.
Make the world a more beautiful place. Lock TW away.
"These deep differences left them dangerously isolated and ill prepared to face the communists who came to power in 1949 vowing to "liberate" the whole territory of China, which they argued included Tibet."
"Who? Me? Expansionist?"
Ok- does anyone with more personal intergrity and a higher amount of historical literacy than Tw want to explain the invasion and ethnic cleansing of Tibet?
Going once, going twice....
"Who? Me? Expansionist?"
Ok- does anyone with more personal intergrity and a higher amount of historical literacy than Tw want to explain the invasion and ethnic cleansing of Tibet?
Going once, going twice....
Hey, I think TW has some very legitimate points (and I'm not TW, so there), whatever you think of the personality presenting them.
However, this is a polemic, and it seems to me that neither "side" is taking the full range of facts into consideration. That said, why is it that westerners always have to bottom-line things as per their own value judgements? Why can't China's achievements-- and failures, surely-- stand on their own merits? Cultural relativism, anyone? What, are we all neocons here? How is Americans trying to arbitrarily impose their values on a billion-member, millenia-old civilization, not the same old western imperialistic chauvinism, whatever the ideology in which it comes wrapped? Whine all you want about Tibet, or whatever, but confront this question for once, why dontcha?
Also. Everyone used to be like, "I'm not for the Soviet Union OR for the USA." Then the USSR fell, and the USA didn't, and now we have the permanent war on a noun looming because there's nothing to hold the real war pigs (like Rummy, not like TW) back from anything anymore.
Perhaps it's hard to see the big picture, even (especially) from the moral high ground. But in this shithole world, a strong, successful and essentially communist government is nothing to sneer at. The human future just might depend on it after all.
You can't casually convince me that even Tibetan peasants, subjected to "genocide," have it as bad as any given victim of US aggression.
Maybe I'm just not as impressed at moral absolutism as I used to be, back when I was a kid.
Think it's just hyperbole? Well, look what you're already paying for. Tibet my ass.
However, this is a polemic, and it seems to me that neither "side" is taking the full range of facts into consideration. That said, why is it that westerners always have to bottom-line things as per their own value judgements? Why can't China's achievements-- and failures, surely-- stand on their own merits? Cultural relativism, anyone? What, are we all neocons here? How is Americans trying to arbitrarily impose their values on a billion-member, millenia-old civilization, not the same old western imperialistic chauvinism, whatever the ideology in which it comes wrapped? Whine all you want about Tibet, or whatever, but confront this question for once, why dontcha?
Also. Everyone used to be like, "I'm not for the Soviet Union OR for the USA." Then the USSR fell, and the USA didn't, and now we have the permanent war on a noun looming because there's nothing to hold the real war pigs (like Rummy, not like TW) back from anything anymore.
Perhaps it's hard to see the big picture, even (especially) from the moral high ground. But in this shithole world, a strong, successful and essentially communist government is nothing to sneer at. The human future just might depend on it after all.
You can't casually convince me that even Tibetan peasants, subjected to "genocide," have it as bad as any given victim of US aggression.
Maybe I'm just not as impressed at moral absolutism as I used to be, back when I was a kid.
Think it's just hyperbole? Well, look what you're already paying for. Tibet my ass.
For more information:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,171...
That said, why is it that westerners always have to bottom-line things as per their own value judgments? Why can't China's achievements-- and failures, surely-- stand on
their own merits? Cultural relativism, anyone? What, are we all neocons here? How is Americans trying to arbitrarily impose their values on a billion-member, millenia-old civilization, not the same old western imperialistic chauvinism, whatever the ideology in which it comes wrapped? Whine all you want about Tibet, or whatever, but confront this question for once, why dontcha?
This is an interesting issue, and one that I have personally struggled with. I did peace corp a while back and found it was very difficult not to "think like an American" I was setting up a library in a remote developing country and wrote a grant to buy books. The process was difficult- exactly because of my own cultural relativism. With each order I would ask myself,
how relevant are the themes in this book to the people I am here to help? Are there any universal themes, or are they all universal themes? It might seem petty to most, but the written word can have such power and influence, that I felt it was almost a sacred duty. It was an agonizing process that I
repeated time after time because I knew that these would be the only books coming in for a good long time. I think back to the Star trek series- the prime directive being"non-interference" in any existing culture. Yet history is full of the interactions of culture Very few cultures exist in a vacuum. Is your point that not all cultures value individual human rights and that we,(collectively or individually) shouldn't impose our ideas regarding , lets say, harvesting prisoners organs or female infanticide , or ethnic cleansing on others?
I personally struggle these issues- I do believe that there are
actions that move us closer to the source of all light, and actions that push us further away. I believe that every individual and for that matter, each species has a unique story to tell, if only the rest of us would listen, and as such, each life has its own intrinsic value. I believe we need to tread lightly on our earth, our home. However I cannot look at whats happening in Darfur and dismiss it, nor what is happening in Tibet, simply because it doesn't effect me directly. Whatever religion, whatever
philosophy you espouse, the only compassionate and appropriate response to suffering is to help end it.
Remember this from Brothers Karamozkov?
"Imagine that you are creating a fabric of human destiny with the object of making men happy in the end, giving them peace and rest at last, but that it was essential and inevitable to torture to death only one tiny creature - that baby beating its breast with its fist, for instance - and to found that edifice on its unavenged tears, would you consent to be the architect on those conditions? Tell me, and tell the truth?"
How would you answer?
I, for one, couldn't do it.
their own merits? Cultural relativism, anyone? What, are we all neocons here? How is Americans trying to arbitrarily impose their values on a billion-member, millenia-old civilization, not the same old western imperialistic chauvinism, whatever the ideology in which it comes wrapped? Whine all you want about Tibet, or whatever, but confront this question for once, why dontcha?
This is an interesting issue, and one that I have personally struggled with. I did peace corp a while back and found it was very difficult not to "think like an American" I was setting up a library in a remote developing country and wrote a grant to buy books. The process was difficult- exactly because of my own cultural relativism. With each order I would ask myself,
how relevant are the themes in this book to the people I am here to help? Are there any universal themes, or are they all universal themes? It might seem petty to most, but the written word can have such power and influence, that I felt it was almost a sacred duty. It was an agonizing process that I
repeated time after time because I knew that these would be the only books coming in for a good long time. I think back to the Star trek series- the prime directive being"non-interference" in any existing culture. Yet history is full of the interactions of culture Very few cultures exist in a vacuum. Is your point that not all cultures value individual human rights and that we,(collectively or individually) shouldn't impose our ideas regarding , lets say, harvesting prisoners organs or female infanticide , or ethnic cleansing on others?
I personally struggle these issues- I do believe that there are
actions that move us closer to the source of all light, and actions that push us further away. I believe that every individual and for that matter, each species has a unique story to tell, if only the rest of us would listen, and as such, each life has its own intrinsic value. I believe we need to tread lightly on our earth, our home. However I cannot look at whats happening in Darfur and dismiss it, nor what is happening in Tibet, simply because it doesn't effect me directly. Whatever religion, whatever
philosophy you espouse, the only compassionate and appropriate response to suffering is to help end it.
Remember this from Brothers Karamozkov?
"Imagine that you are creating a fabric of human destiny with the object of making men happy in the end, giving them peace and rest at last, but that it was essential and inevitable to torture to death only one tiny creature - that baby beating its breast with its fist, for instance - and to found that edifice on its unavenged tears, would you consent to be the architect on those conditions? Tell me, and tell the truth?"
How would you answer?
I, for one, couldn't do it.
Well said! That's EXACTLY how I feel about Western "exceptionalism" (there's a better word for it) used as a constant pretext for war.
Are you the one who tried to discuss polemicism and its disadvantages with me once? I'm sorry I was so dismissive. I figured you were just another Harriet playing cat-and-mouse games. Around here, that's a healthy reflex
Are you the one who tried to discuss polemicism and its disadvantages with me once? I'm sorry I was so dismissive. I figured you were just another Harriet playing cat-and-mouse games. Around here, that's a healthy reflex
JPost.com » International » Article
Feb. 15, 2006 18:57
Report: China protests Dalai Lama's Israel visit
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
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The Chinese consul in Tel Aviv sent a letter protesting the Dalai Lama's visit to Israeli authorities, comparing the Dalai Lama to the head of the Hamas, Israel Radio reported.
"If China would let the head of Hamas visit, Israel would be angry," the radio station cited the letter as saying.
Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev would not confirm that China had sent such a letter, and said the Israeli government was not involved in the Dalai Lama's visit. Officials at the Chinese Embassy in Tel Aviv couldn't be reached for comment.
Let me blow away the fog for you
The key assumption that's tangling you up here -- the one you're not stepping back far enough to question -- is that the Peace Corp and other such orgs (there are hundreds) actually exist to **help** such people, and so therefore your work with Peace Corp had a real intent of helping them.
You're wrong.
Peace Corp and virtually every other organization like it are about two things 1) cultural / economic imperialism, or sucking the country more solidly into a Western / capitalist economic orbit, and 2) providing a smokescreen for intel operations. The second one is a pretext the Peace Corp in particular is infamous for. Basically, if it's a program supported in any way by the U.S. government, your nose needs to be REAL twitchy. The US government dabbles in foreign affairs for *one* purpose, and it ain't benevolent.
This is a truth the dreamy-eyed volunteers are not privy to. Chances are everyone you worked with was volunteers, so you were all stuck in the dissonant position of being sure your mission was to help but getting mixed messages from the work itself. The truth about this is esoterica for the paid lifers, and not even for all of them.
I have a friend who squandered her youth as a devout bible nut. She joined a Christian mission doing work in Haiti during the previous big spy wing-ding down there, back in the early '90s. This woman is very bright. Over time she came to realize she was essentially providing analyst services directly to the CIA. They really liked her work. At one point they even stepped out from behind their camouflage net and offered her a permanent gig. She realized what she was really participating in and it broke her heart. It haunts and torments her to this day.
The hardcore urban psychology of the West, especially of New York and its mental colonies, is Satan. When it pretends to be doing wonderful altruistic things, you can be sure it's lying. There's only one way to truly do good, and that's by leaving it far behind and shaking its influences out of your head. Watching Dr. Phil doesn't help with this.
The key assumption that's tangling you up here -- the one you're not stepping back far enough to question -- is that the Peace Corp and other such orgs (there are hundreds) actually exist to **help** such people, and so therefore your work with Peace Corp had a real intent of helping them.
You're wrong.
Peace Corp and virtually every other organization like it are about two things 1) cultural / economic imperialism, or sucking the country more solidly into a Western / capitalist economic orbit, and 2) providing a smokescreen for intel operations. The second one is a pretext the Peace Corp in particular is infamous for. Basically, if it's a program supported in any way by the U.S. government, your nose needs to be REAL twitchy. The US government dabbles in foreign affairs for *one* purpose, and it ain't benevolent.
This is a truth the dreamy-eyed volunteers are not privy to. Chances are everyone you worked with was volunteers, so you were all stuck in the dissonant position of being sure your mission was to help but getting mixed messages from the work itself. The truth about this is esoterica for the paid lifers, and not even for all of them.
I have a friend who squandered her youth as a devout bible nut. She joined a Christian mission doing work in Haiti during the previous big spy wing-ding down there, back in the early '90s. This woman is very bright. Over time she came to realize she was essentially providing analyst services directly to the CIA. They really liked her work. At one point they even stepped out from behind their camouflage net and offered her a permanent gig. She realized what she was really participating in and it broke her heart. It haunts and torments her to this day.
The hardcore urban psychology of the West, especially of New York and its mental colonies, is Satan. When it pretends to be doing wonderful altruistic things, you can be sure it's lying. There's only one way to truly do good, and that's by leaving it far behind and shaking its influences out of your head. Watching Dr. Phil doesn't help with this.
"How would you answer?"
I would answer that you should strive to impose such well-meaning values on your own damn culture, and let the Chinese take care of China, in whatever direction the Chinese may collectively see fit.
Surely "live and let live" must be among your worthy liberal values?
I would answer that you should strive to impose such well-meaning values on your own damn culture, and let the Chinese take care of China, in whatever direction the Chinese may collectively see fit.
Surely "live and let live" must be among your worthy liberal values?
from the current NY Times Online:
Rice to Ask for $75 Million to Promote Democracy in Iran
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told a Senate panel today that she plans to ask for $75 million to promote democracy in Iran, but she met with sharp questioning from Democrats about whether Bush administration policies were promoting the rise of anti-American governments around the world.
dot dot dot
She said in her prepared statement that the extra $75 million "would enable us to increase our support for democracy and improve our radio broadcasting, begin satellite television broadcast, increase the contacts between our peoples through expanded fellowships and scholarships for Iranian students, and to bolster our public democracy efforts."
full story at:
Rice to Ask for $75 Million to Promote Democracy in Iran
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told a Senate panel today that she plans to ask for $75 million to promote democracy in Iran, but she met with sharp questioning from Democrats about whether Bush administration policies were promoting the rise of anti-American governments around the world.
dot dot dot
She said in her prepared statement that the extra $75 million "would enable us to increase our support for democracy and improve our radio broadcasting, begin satellite television broadcast, increase the contacts between our peoples through expanded fellowships and scholarships for Iranian students, and to bolster our public democracy efforts."
full story at:
For more information:
http://nytimes.com/2006/02/15/politics/15c...
Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, said the $75m (£43m) in extra funds, on top of $10m already allocated for later this year, would be used to broadcast US radio and television programmes into Iran, help pay for Iranians to study in America and support pro-democracy groups inside the country.
dot dot dot
She added: "The United States will actively confront the aggressive policies of the Iranian regime. At the same time, we will work to support the aspirations of the Iranian people for freedom and democracy in their country."
The US is to increase funds to Iranian non-governmental bodies that promote democracy, human rights and trade unionism. It began funding such bodies last year for the first time since Washington broke off ties with Iran in 1980. A US official said all existing citizens' groups and non-governmental organisations in Iran had been heavily infiltrated by the Tehran government, so the US would seek to help build new dissident networks.
source:
dot dot dot
She added: "The United States will actively confront the aggressive policies of the Iranian regime. At the same time, we will work to support the aspirations of the Iranian people for freedom and democracy in their country."
The US is to increase funds to Iranian non-governmental bodies that promote democracy, human rights and trade unionism. It began funding such bodies last year for the first time since Washington broke off ties with Iran in 1980. A US official said all existing citizens' groups and non-governmental organisations in Iran had been heavily infiltrated by the Tehran government, so the US would seek to help build new dissident networks.
source:
For more information:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,17...
"I would answer that you should strive to impose such well-meaning values on your own damn culture, and let the Chinese take care of China, in whatever direction the Chinese may collectively see fit."
Ok- so where does your Washingtonian "steer clear of foreign entanglements" end?
Do you object, for example , to helping out the tsunami victims of South East Asia?
Do you think thats just shameful geo-political manipulation with sinister ulterior motives? Think the money could be better spent at home?
Just wondering.
Hillel once said
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am only for myself, then what am I?"
Ok- so where does your Washingtonian "steer clear of foreign entanglements" end?
Do you object, for example , to helping out the tsunami victims of South East Asia?
Do you think thats just shameful geo-political manipulation with sinister ulterior motives? Think the money could be better spent at home?
Just wondering.
Hillel once said
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am only for myself, then what am I?"
are we all still so interventionist, only more embarrassed about the implications of that, or are some people having second thoughts yet?
these things get so damn quiet once people start getting reasonable.....
these things get so damn quiet once people start getting reasonable.....
Well answer: Where does your isolationalist policy begin and end? Do you support humanitarian aid to countries in crisis? Do you support aid to refugees from internal conflicts?
Can you really sit by and do nothing while 1200 schoolchildren lie buried under a mountain of mud in the Phillipines? Can you really do nothing well 2 million people slowly starve to death in Chad? Lets define term first.
I'm ok avoiding military entanglements of all sorts- definitely opposed to invading sovereign nations, but we, as a nation owe something to the world. We are obligated to give back. We certainly take more than our share.
Can you really sit by and do nothing while 1200 schoolchildren lie buried under a mountain of mud in the Phillipines? Can you really do nothing well 2 million people slowly starve to death in Chad? Lets define term first.
I'm ok avoiding military entanglements of all sorts- definitely opposed to invading sovereign nations, but we, as a nation owe something to the world. We are obligated to give back. We certainly take more than our share.
Contrary to it's Western media image, the Falun Gong really is a cult, with a leader, Master Li Hongzhi, who is worshipped as a God and Savior by his "disciples." The core teaching of Falun Gong is something called "Fa-recification"...a kind of spiritual cleansing that Li says will "weed out" all the corrpupt people in the world, including homosexuals, leaving only the good people. During this process, Master Li's disciples will become Gods.
As with so much media coverage, because Falun Gong practitioners are persecuted in China, the Western press has never applied even minimal standards of objectivity in reporting on the Falun Gong cult. No, I am not a paid agent of the Chinese Communist Party. But I am a gay man living in San Francisco who has had many conversations with Falun Gong practitioners over the last 4 years.
If anyone is particularly interested in learning more about the concealed teachings of the Falun Gong, including it's itense homophobia and what I call "spiritual eugenics" please check out the sf.indymedia.org site. Go to:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/1724264.php
Thomas Brown
San Francisco
As with so much media coverage, because Falun Gong practitioners are persecuted in China, the Western press has never applied even minimal standards of objectivity in reporting on the Falun Gong cult. No, I am not a paid agent of the Chinese Communist Party. But I am a gay man living in San Francisco who has had many conversations with Falun Gong practitioners over the last 4 years.
If anyone is particularly interested in learning more about the concealed teachings of the Falun Gong, including it's itense homophobia and what I call "spiritual eugenics" please check out the sf.indymedia.org site. Go to:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/1724264.php
Thomas Brown
San Francisco
By casting the Falun Gong resolution issue entirely in terms of relations with China the author of this article does a disservice to the LGBT community in San Francisco. I was one of several San Franciscans who lobied the Board to modify the wording of its resolution to do two things at the same time: condemn persecution of Falun Gong practitioners in China, but also condemn the intensely homophobic teachings of the Falun Gong here in the states. Most Americans really don't know what the Falun Gong teaches, and that's because the leader of the Falun Gong,
Master Li Hongzhi...who is worsipped as a God and Savior by his disciples...tells them not to reveal his "higher" teachings when talking to ordinary people.
The core "higher teaching" of the Falun Gong is something called "Fa-rectification" which is a kind of spiritual cleansing in which corrupt people, including homosexuals, will be "weeded out" by Master Li's great law, called the Dafa.
The fact that this comes as news to you is a tribute to the deceptive tactics that Li Hongzhi has used and the strength of his PR operation in the West.
If you're interested in getting a more balanced view of the Falun Gong resolution that the Board passed, you have to go to the Bay Area Reporter which featured a front-page news story about it entitled: "Supes Support 'Homophobic Cult'"
Check it out at:
http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=549
Thomas Brown
San Francisco
Master Li Hongzhi...who is worsipped as a God and Savior by his disciples...tells them not to reveal his "higher" teachings when talking to ordinary people.
The core "higher teaching" of the Falun Gong is something called "Fa-rectification" which is a kind of spiritual cleansing in which corrupt people, including homosexuals, will be "weeded out" by Master Li's great law, called the Dafa.
The fact that this comes as news to you is a tribute to the deceptive tactics that Li Hongzhi has used and the strength of his PR operation in the West.
If you're interested in getting a more balanced view of the Falun Gong resolution that the Board passed, you have to go to the Bay Area Reporter which featured a front-page news story about it entitled: "Supes Support 'Homophobic Cult'"
Check it out at:
http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=549
Thomas Brown
San Francisco
Funny how none of these Chinese-atrocities-in-Tibet researchers missed such a glaring.... contradiction in their concerns.
Poor little Falun Gong, indeed!
Poor little Falun Gong, indeed!
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