World Can't Wait Assembly Points/Civic Center SF Nov 2nd

Actually, it occurs to me.. why was november 2 chosen by this group. Is it a day of the dead significance? While many people do work the evening or weekend shift, daytime weekday rallies often don't do very well at all, then negative members of the media will trumpet that 'the entire antiwar movement' is losing support. Groups such as women in black, which have many senior citizen or professional religious members are effective with noontime rallies where having just a dozen people is file, but if a group is advertising a 'mass' rally, it is best to make the best arrangement to get high numbers. The carpooling thing is a good move for that, but I can't go to this. Even students at Berkeley often skip the Sproul rallies unless it is a particularly big event.

The "World Can't Wait" organization is a front for the Revolutionary Communist Party, the Stalinists who have supported Sendero Luminoso in Peru and currently support the Maoist insurgency in Nepal.

No anti-authoritarians, anarchists or libertarian communists should have anything to do with these people. The "enemy of your enemy" is not always your friend, no matter what Chairman Mao and his terrible progeny think!

It's not about the RCP, it's about the statement this makes.
The above poster (I'd bet) doesn't care about the values he espoused (anti-authoritarian, ect.) This is part of the protest warrior strategy to disrupt any mass actions that highlight BushCo's immense failures....Don't be fooled by idiot Protest Warriors in there transparent, childish attempts to infiltrate....

Go to http://www.worldcantwait.org, and look at the list of endorsers. While the RCP started this off, what it's become is hardly what I'd call an RCP front.

Like "Above Posting is Fradulent" said, don't fall for the PW bait.

from the world can't wait website:

Q: But aren't there communists in World Can't Wait?

A: Yeah, there are. Supporters of the Revolutionary Communist Party helped initiate it.

Let's go with the worst case scenario, the World Can't Wait group was and is initiated and controlled by members of the RCP. Let's all stay home and type on the computer now? Go to class and follow the rules? Maybe watch some TV, or head to the coffee shop for a latte and complain how the evil communists ruined everything??

There's always going to be a front group of people whom we don't all agree with. That's fine, i didn't really go for the Int ANSWER position of red socialism either, though i did go to some of their organized marches and also some break-away marches initiated by some random anarchists after the organized ANSWER march. Bet if we got to talking a while i would disagree with a lots of their personal ideas about anarchism also, as they would with my opinions. It isn't written anywhere that we all need to think alike. The Zapatistas said it best, "A world in which many worlds are possible and exist." or something to that extent..

So does marching with the WCW people make u into a radical Maoist RCP robot overnight? Are the RCPers secretly planning to release micro-nanobots that will tunnel inside the skulls of all march participants, rendering them helpless to the teachings of communist ideology in just a few hours time??

The greatest risk in that realm is the right wing neocons releasing some non-contagious flu bug like the Tularemia they may have released last time on the 24th. If the right wing neocons sent military weapons grade anthrax to the Demoncraps, don't think they won't try it on the people at the WCW march. That doesn't mean don't go, just be aware and prepared for something that could make people ill. Maybe invest in some Vitamin C supplements, or wolf down some fresh garlic (with an alkaline buffer to protect stomach) to boost your immune system. Try to avoid refined sugar (immuno-depressant) products for a few days before and after. If suffering from a chronic weakened immune system, bring a surgical mask to protect from microbes in addition to above measures. The right wing neocons are getting desperate and will stop at nothing to stifle dissent and public opposition to the Bush regime..

"My enemy's enemy is my friend" Yeah, for now, but soon as we dispose of the Bush regime i'll be fighting the new leaders tooth and nail, whomever they are. In the meantime we can agree to disagree with the RCP, various personal ideology, whatever, and focus our collective energy on removing the Bush regime from their position of illegally gained power..

luna moth

>"My enemy's enemy is my friend" Yeah, for now, but soon as we dispose of the Bush regime i'll be fighting the new leaders tooth and nail, whomever they are. In the meantime we can agree to disagree with the RCP, various personal ideology, whatever, and focus our collective energy on removing the Bush regime from their position of illegally gained power..<

Beautifully put, luna moth. Thank you.

Communists have nothing to be defensive about. The RCP did help initiate this movement, and they are being the exact opposite of the dogmatic fools attacking it.

What you see is what you get.

I know that in some sections of the "activist community" there is a consensus that revolutionary organizations are "the problem." I totaly and completely disagree.

When the RCP promotes straight politics, they are attacked for it. When they launch social movements encouraging autonomous direct action, they are attacked for it.

The basic beef of the supposedly anarchist bully boys is that they take all the anti-communist crap they've been spoonfed by the likes of Bush since birth at face value.

I don't. I don't confuse worldview of capitalists with the truth. And I don't think for a minute that the entirely narrow-minded ranting of the slaggers will supress turnout in the least.

What is so exciting to me about World Can't Wait, aside from the effective involvement of revolutionary communists, is that it isn't just aiming to corral the "true believers." Millions of flyers have reached communities, schools and worksites around the country.

The point is to bring the millions of folks screaming inside out into the streets -- to meet each other and get organized.

The time is now -- let the peanut gallery chew their cud, and eat our dust.

Just to say it really clearly: the RCP is not your enemy. They are your party. They are a fighting organization dedicated to world revolution, based on the conscious participation of people who have been told they have no place in government.

Think about it: have you ever had them try and obstruct anything you've ever done? I bet not.

And more to the point: when you start believing the lies our real enemy tells about us, we've already lost half the battle.

The future begins today. Let's make it better than a "second time farce."

The Democrats have called a "Closed Session" to discuss pre Iraq war intelligence and the Libby indictments. Bill Frist and the Republicans are going ape. It is happening right now.

The Democrats in the Senate have invoked Senate Rule XXI, creating the "closed or secret session. All that is needed is a motion that is seconded to go into secret session.

The House has similar rules for secret sessions, but the Democrats have not yet acted. Calling John Conyers!

A secret session is unusual but not rare. In the last seventy years there have been over fifty secret sessions invoked by the Congress.

Give me a break. The Dems have given us or supported tons of crap that's destroying the planet already - Bush's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, PATRIOT Act, NAFTA, FTAA, Corporate Personhood - and now you're going to pretend that they are RISING because of a single 'closed' session???

Ref:

DEMS RISING
by News Flash Tuesday, Nov. 01, 2005 at 11:57 AM.


(Like the last time when the Dems 'rose up' and agreed not to filibuster in *exchange* for the Republicans appointing another arch-conservative federal judge.)


The Dems 'rising up'!!

HA-HA-HA---HA-HA!!

Gi' *me* a break too!!

Guess i don't really have a reason to be against the communists, though i don't see their view as entirely inclusive of my ideals. The communists haven't tried to stop me from doing anything because;

1) i haven't really done much yet and

2) the RCP isn't yet in a position to stop me or anyone else for that matter..

If by some strange fluke the RCP does gain some position of authority in the US i guess they'll be better than the Repthuglicans Bush regime anyway. Probably better than the Demoncraps and Kerry also. On the scale of lesser evilism they're almost so lesser that they don't qualify as evil. On that note i feel the Demoncraps are not qualified to administer justice to the illegal Bush regime. The RCP may be better equipped to administer justice to the tyrants in the Bush regime. However, any group who gains power can become a tyranny almost overnight, and in that case the RCP isn't really that different from anyone else. Maybe this tyranny wouldn't happen here as it did in the former Soviet Union under Stalinism, though i don't have a problem with a few of the wealthy elite and Bush regime taking a permanant nose dive into the compost pile. Sometimes justice can be a terrible thing for the unjust. In defense of Maximilian Robespierre and his merry pranksters, the greater good was served temporarily by the French Revolution, even though Napoleon's nationalism kind of ruined it for everyone later on. Well, it was fun while it lasted, either way France threw off the tyranny of the imperial royalty for good. Now they just have some petit beurocrats who usually don't stray too far from the people's wishes..

Here's a quote from Maximilian Robespierre about virtue, justice and terror;

"If the basis of popular government in time of peace is virtue, the basis of popular government in time of revolution is both virtue and terror: virtue without which terror is murderous, terror without which virtue is powerless. Terror is nothing else than swift, severe, indomitable justice; it flows, then, from virtue."

http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/frrevdocuments.html

This type of jargon may frighten the moderates, though maybe they need to tremble a bit also. A friend (apologist) of a tyrant could be a tyrant's helper. An enemy of the tyrant is a friend of the revolutionary government. Maybe the tyrants should have listened to Martin Luther King Jr., "Those who make non-violent revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."

Well, what's it gonna be?

luna moth

T<<<<<< No anti-authoritarians, anarchists or libertarian communists should have anything to do with these people. The "enemy of your enemy" is not always your friend, no matter what Chairman Mao and his terrible progeny think!>>>>>

let me take a crack at this:

AUTHOR IN DRAG for the democratic party, fbi, cia, local police, domestic counter-insurgency

i dont see what the righties are so down on the rcp about. the chinese communist govt. is best friends with the republicans, together they've destroyed the domestic textile industry in the american southeast-- the heart of "red country" jesusland.

truly miraculous..... i'm surprised the "free marketeers" arent all wearing mao buttons and waving little red-state books.....

As 'burningman flitters' coast to coast across the Indymedia network to promote WCW and denounce its critics on local newswires, I thought I'd tag along to offer a slightly different view...:)

Fact is, people have been organizing to dump the Bush regime for some time now. The RCP however, was absent for most the past year - busily promoting Chairman Bob's latest book and screenings of 'Revolution -the DVD". As you may recall, 300,000 gathered in DC last month to voice opposition to the regime - something WCW organizers will be hard pressed to top nationally on tommorow. And anti-war sentiment continues to build across the country. Is it enough? Not by a long shot. But nothing the WCW is proposing up front is new at all -- the call for building a broad based multi issue 'popular front' to remove Bush from office is the dominant politcal theme with other national coaltions as well .. say like UFPJ.

The question is how? Some - including Democratic Party liberals - argue for mobilizing in the electoral sector to take back the House and Senate from the Republicans and impeach the bastard. But simply reducing this to an all out effort to get rid of Bush - without challenging the bipartisan consensus that underpins US policies for war and repression is a self defeating strategy - and sets us up for another "Anybody but Bush" fiasco.

The WCW has yet to specify how they see this being accomplished. One thing is certain - they have yet to call for launching a massive sustained campaign of direct action and resistance to materially intefer with the war machine and raise the stakes - despite the RCP's professed longterm committment to a insurrectionary strategy. Maybe they're saving that for Wednesday. We'll see. My hunch is that this is the latest effort by the RCP - post NION - to play catchup with ANSWER and UFPJ - by outflanking UFPJ and the CP on the right.

Incidentially, in case you haven't noticed, the World is decidely not waiting for us to overthrow the regime. They don't have that luxury. They're resisting right now. Daily. In Iraq, Palestine, all over Latin America, the struggle against US imperialism is intensifying.

Burningman writes: The RCP did help initiate this movement.."

Help initiate it, Burningman?. Horse pucky. It was an RCP initative in toto, lock stock and barrell. Like NION. Like R&R. Like the Oct.22 Coaltion. If you support the RCP initative, fine. But don't dissemble about the character of WCW. It is was it is.

Consider the following:

worldcantwait.org is -

Domain Name:WORLDCANTWAIT.ORG
Created On:06-Jun-2005 14:12:07 UTC
Last Updated On:12-Oct-2005 05:00:22 UTC
Expiration Date:06-Jun-2007 14:12:07 UTC
Registrant ID:tu5dLPCfXNvOyMlS
Registrant Name:C. Clark Kissinger
Registrant Organization:C. Clark Kissinger
Registrant Street1:593 Vanderbilt Ave, #224
Registrant City:Brooklyn
Registrant State/Province:NY
Registrant Postal Code:11238
Registrant Phone:+1.7185551212
Registrant Email:cck (at) cloud9.net

C. Clark Kissinger bio from his website: http://www.dissident.info/

"sabate" -- since you're posting people's phone numbers and addresses, you might want to add your own.

C. Clark Kissinger writes for the RCP's newspaper Revolution: http://rwor.org
He also was a leading founder of Refuse and Resist, Not In Our Name -- and publically, with no subterfuge whatsoever -- World Can't Wait.

It's on their damned website, plainly. And so is the "list of endorsers." It's made up of real people, people of principle -- artists and organizations.

And me. I've endorsed it because I agree with it. That's a discussion you are uninterested and immune to. You think you are an antibody attacking and infection -- but you are wrong to the bone.

185 planned actions in dozens of cities -- local events, organized largely by youth green to the movement, with skilled organizers who may not hang out at your potluck, but live very real lives.

Read the World Can't Wait website. Read widely, and when you talk to people ask questions instead of cutting. This is a radical mobilization with broad support. Do a Google News search for "World Can't Wait" and see what comes up.

Or even better, if you missed out on organizing -- roll through today and see what's happening.

...but be fair: the info "sabate" posted is internet registry info, and so by nature as public as anything in a phone book. as for phone numbers: if i call 718-555-1212 am i really going to reach c.c.k.?

btw, the wcw ralliers at 16th and mission (s.f.) today had some impromptu opposition from one of any number of evangelists who usually dominate that intersection. it didnt look like the wcw folks were particularly prepared (for one thing, they coulda used a bigger bullhorn!!) for that matter, it would be nice to see wcw/the rcp/ anyone really, taking up more of that space, to the cost of the evangelists. 24th st. needs it too....

just some feedback-- between that and protest warrior-fascist types, you gotta expect that kind of thing, not just ignore it.... might be worth going to a few more potlucks, just to seek out that kind of feedback. lateral thinking is always good.

best of luck tomorrow.....

I can't go. I hope they do okay, and the various people who take the day off can be heard. While I totally support creation of new organizations away from ANSWER where new people have the opportunity to do creative leadership, what is questioned is whether there is a difference between NION, WCW and Answer. Reading front page coverage of a student walkout today in the Seattle newspaper, it seems like the people who want to participate were just waiting for any catalyst, and would easily have worked with any other group, or hopefully can start their own groups to tackle diverse problems relating to our overseas military.

Personally, rather than traveling and not receiving income from work today, I feel I could be more effective picking a nice reformist task to apply my energy to after work. It would really be a shame if during the 2006 midterm election, or the 2008 election, the states around the country still all have those cruddy no-paper trail electronic ballots that produced highly irregular patterns in Ohio and Florida, where specific counties had voting patterns that didn't match previous elections or recent polls. Is that going to happen a third time because we're suckers?

By the way, in my opinion, setting a meeting place at 16th and Mission is highly characteristic of the RCP, in a bad vanguardist way. If they/you ever really wished to make an impact and get on the news, they would pick an initial rallying point that wasn't in the Western Addition or a neighborhood filled with low-income central american immigrants and homeless, and instead they'd pick an upper-class residential area. But that will never happen. They could go for the Marina or by Coit Tower, or (gasp) mix it up by outside of San Francisco to Sunnyvale or San Mateo.

Fiweverybody on this list goes. I hope the entire world (it is "the World can't wait") takes of from work and from school and does soemthing against the Bush administration todait sounds cy (and i hope they continuing doing whatever they can tomorrow and the day after, etc.) I hope the revolution begins today. The people in motion will decide what to do about the RCP, the anarchists, and anybody else who wants to move. That being said one way we move is sometimes we eat together (human beings do eat, or does burningman live on Bob's words alone), and hence the potluck (collective meal where eveyrbody coming brings something) was born. That may not be burningman's idea of action (he being too busy not waiting and talking to all the millions of people he talks to) and sound cliche and all that, but people should try it. Get together with a few of your friends, break bread (as they say) and discuss the state of the world and what can be done. And then the next time you decide you want to do something (you don't have to "wait" for the RCP or ANSWER or even the anarchists to do something) call up the people you discussed things with and say hey lets do it. Anarchists call this an affinity group but you don't have to. And you'll have a group of people you know, and trust and will watch your back while you watch theirs. And you won't feel like a cog in the machine liek you do at work, or like a lot of people do at ANSWER dmeos, and i bet you like well feel today at the World Can't Wait. And when you empower each other, you'll figure out more ways and do more things to change the world to the way we all want it to be than a even a million people waiting to hear what Chairman Bob wants us to do.

Only today, Dean? What will that accomplish?

...of what i wrote. Do whatever you think is important to accomplish.

Even if people don't want to attend the World Can't Wait rally, it would be good to walk out of class and/or work anyway on Nov 2nd. The solidarity effect of a large scale walk-out is what effects the system the most. If u don't want to listen to a bunch of speeches at the rally, just go for a walk and smoke a joint or something. Hell, have a beer even, just please skip work or school today to maximize the effect of a walk-out solidarity. Anybody can organize a realtively spontaneous break-away march if they don't feel like hanging out with the RCP/WCW folks..

Be creative and use your imagination. There's alot of fun merry prankster routines people can perform if they want something besides rank and file RCP/WCW organizing. Obviously business as usual is the worst possible choice for showing solidarity with people trying their hardest to drive out the Bush regime. For what it's worth the RCP may not be my cup of tea either, but i respect them for their work at organizing and spreading the message..

Up in Chico we are walking out of CSU @ 10 am and later on after a non-violent die-in demonstration marching to Wally Herger's office to loudly protest his policy of militarism and ecocide. Herger is kind of isolated so we need to raise our voices for him to hear us. Herger is the longtime Repthuglican representative for the far northeast sector of CA. In addition to decades of environmental destruction to benefit the wealthy ranchers at the expense of rios, Herger has also endorsed many of the Bush regimes worst ideas, including the privacy invading Patriot Act. Herger follows the orders of the Bush regime and pledges taxpayer dollars to support the militarization of CA. Many of the seasonal vernal pool wetlands were destroyed by the suburban sprawl that benefits the developers at the expense of the environment and low income housing..

"I read where Rep. Wally Herger, R-Marysville, is going to bat for George Schmidbauer, owner of lumber mills in Eureka and Texas and property in southeast Chico, in Schmidbauer's efforts to sell land to the Chico Unified School District, which wants to build a new high school. Herger, according to the Enterprise-Record, will use his influence as a long-time congressman to talk with newly appointed U.S. Secretary of the Interior Gail Norton. The property in question until now has been deemed unacceptable for a new school because of environmental constraints, and so far the Army Corps of Engineers has put the clamps on any development. Actually, the 50- to 70-acre lot needed for the school would be acceptable for development by itself, but Schmidbauer wants to tie additional acreage onto the deal and get blanket approval for residential development in the process. So I guess Herger hopes to convince Norton that the vernal pools, meadowfoam and fairy shrimp present on the property don't need as much protection as they did under the Clinton administration. I don't see where it will take much convincing on Herger's part. Norton is the former Colorado attorney general who's been called "a friend to industry," which is a fairly common description of those filling the Bush administration's cabinet posts. In other words, the change in political winds blowing out of Washington, D.C., will most likely be felt here on the regional level fairly soon. Just last week Forest Service Chief Mike Dombeck resigned after four years on the job under a Democratic administration. Dombeck was a biologist, someone who understood how ecosystems work and who questioned the scientific validity of using commercial tree harvesting as a means of forest preservation. Under the Bush administration expect another "friend to industry" to be placed in charge of our national forests, including Plumas and Lassen."

http://www.newsreview.com/issues/chico/2001-04-05/inside.asp

In Chico we are doing this independent of the RCP/WCW though in solidarity with the WCW protests around the world. Personally i have not seen proof that the RCP are the organizers of the WCW since this doesn't really matter to me that much anyway. Am not a member of any organization and consider myself a free wheel semi-activist with green anarchist tendencies..

Any city or town can do something like this without swearing allegiance to Chairman Mao's ghost or Bob Avakian (whomever that is). It only takes a few people in a given community to organize something to express their dislike of the Bush regime's activities..

There's even a Nov 2nd walk-out and demonstration in the small town of Red Bluff on the upper Sac Rio & off the I-5 south of Redding. Not very many RCP members up here either. If anything the people in Red Bluff are mostly libertarians sick and tired off the Bush regime using their tax dollars to fund the military occupation of Iraq for petroleum corporation profits. Also people here are not happy about a proposed medical waste incinerating facility that would add tons of toxins into the north valley air every year. Like the wind tunnel funnel effect of the north Sacto valley doesn't have enough problems with the smog y pesticides blowing north up the valley every summer, now people need to breathe burning medical waste on top of that?

So wherever you are, whatever u believe, Nov 2nd is a great day for a walk out and use non-violent civil disobedience to express opposition the the Bush regime. Solidarity against tyranny!!

luna moth

Wow Steve. It always saddens me when a wage slave is so saturated by the poisons of the capitalist system that he actually has enthusiasm for his imprisonment. It is sort of a large scale Stockholm syndrome that many ignorant so-called "patriots", protest warriors and cops suffer from.
You wave your stupid little flag while corporate execs and politicians put the screws to you, robbing your children and their children of a right to a healthy life under sustainable conditions.
You are like a cow that says "pump me up with hormones and then cruelly slaughter me please! Oh and while you are at it destroy the whole farm so that it will be uninhabitable for future cows."
Very sad indeed.

You know, it is totally valid to attack the RCP for their blatant authoritarian politics and decide not to join their attempts at revolution because the world after their revolution would still suck, it would just be them in power. For those of us who are anti-authoritarian it becomes a rather important question. Do you ally yourself with this particular action, which calls for the end of one particular regime to end one particular war? Or do you focus your energy on the bigger picture, the end of all regimes, the end of war? These two things don't have to be mutually exclusive to be sure. But we must be careful both in what we denounce and what we support. People in my area didn't organize around the WCW nov 2 stuff because we don't think that the Bush administration is the problem here and we're not about to throw our support and organizational weight behind a group that would just kill people like us anyway if they came to power. After every revolution comes a consolidation of power. In those consolidations people die to prevent the re-rev. People like the RCP want revolution in the style of a power grab followed by a consolidation. Maybe we should all think about ways to reorganize power and power relationships to create worlds in which people have power, not parties. Power in the hands of a party and a leader is dangerous. Power in the hands of people is a beautiful thing.

By the way, to denounce those of us with anti-authoritarian politics as disingenous or as cops or FBI infiltrators because we are wary of working with folks like the RCP is silly and dangerous. The later certainly isn't an accusation to just be tossed around.
kc

...between authoritarians and anti-authoritarians.

That is not a useful way of understanding politics and confines itself to opposition and subculture.

I think a more useful way of looking at the movement, and one most long-term activists I know use -- is to work with "liberation organizations." Everyone doesn't use that word -- but it's the gist of it.

Are these people standing up for human liberation, or are they making personal moves/getting paid!/cynical chic oppressors.

Yeah, "oppression" -- what a groovy word.

Man, I am tired of the supposedly "new" philosophies that try and make everything but being a drop-out "old."

Get with it.

Not much time, but I just wanted to throw a few bit into the blender.

The term "Front Group" was originated by Hoover's FBI to discredit every social movement from the civil rights to the anti-nuke movement. The term itself is an authoritarian attempt to rob people of their power as individuals to come together in mutual aid. It is a confused way to think about what the RCP actually does.

I have been active and on the perifery of many so-called RCP front groups. I'll make my point by asking a few questions: If NION is a whole controlled political subsidiary of the RCP, why did the RCP initiate a seperate organization to spearhead thes Novemeber 2nd demos? Why lay out the infra structure, why expend the organizational energy? If they already "control" a group with a nearly indentical (if more narrowly focused) intent? Why not step up the work of another "broader" "front group" like R&R?

And a few choice words about thre RCP and O22. O22 has been tiny for the past two years. And who has decreased their role for the past two years? Is a National Day of PRotest Against Police Brutality worthwhile? Should it be independent of sects like the RCP? Now that the RCP has stepped back who will take O22 forward?

My intent here is not to bag on the folks who have organized O22 for the past two years, but to call out the haters and challenge them to resist the pigs a bit more.

The RCP believed (wrongly and sadly) that there would be millions waiting to come out to Nov. 2. I say sadly becuase i wish it too. However the nature of these demos, tying them to a small section of capitalism (some would call this the popular front -- it's going to the extreme with their "next step", yelling at Bush during the State of the Union speech, ASKING HIM to resign) will never get the anger of the people up to full speeed. Witness the continuing anti-police riots going on in France as an alternative to the permits and polticians and the 3 hour long non-creative smae chant nonsense.