See the Press Conference of the Killers of Gwen Araujo

A second killing of this nature was just adjudicated in Modesto, CA. The killer recieved 4 years.
Guess what?
The plea bargain accepted here was not offered as in the Gwens case. Any speculation as to why?

As a separate issue to the above question:
Ask any psychiatrist, and you'll see that sexual assault has many forms. Hiding something from a sexual partner falls under the assault theme in the psychiatric realm. Clearly established laws address things like when an older person hides that fact form an underaged one; Or when a person hides ssomething like a disease. Believe it or not, finding out that female is male at a most intimate moment after having been led to believe differently, is sexual assault.
I don't think murder is warranted, nor is stabbing someone 7 times in the process of fleeing. But the transgender community needs to get a grip on thier tactics or they may see many, many more of these events.

A second killing of this nature was just adjudicated in Modesto, CA. The killer recieved 4 years.
Guess what?
The plea bargain accepted here was not offered as in the Gwens case. Any speculation as to why?

As a separate issue to the above question:
Ask any psychiatrist, and you'll see that sexual assault has many forms. Hiding something from a sexual partner falls under the assault theme in the psychiatric realm. Clearly established laws address things like when an older person hides that fact form an underaged one; Or when a person hides ssomething like a disease. Believe it or not, finding out that female is male at a most intimate moment after having been led to believe differently, is sexual assault.
I don't think murder is warranted, nor is stabbing someone 7 times in the process of fleeing. But the transgender community needs to get a grip on thier tactics or they may see many, many more of these events.

A second killing of this nature was just adjudicated in Modesto, CA. The killer recieved 4 years.
Guess what?
The plea bargain accepted here was not offered as in the Gwens case. Any speculation as to why?

As a separate issue to the above question:
Ask any psychiatrist, and you'll see that sexual assault has many forms. Hiding something from a sexual partner falls under the assault theme in the psychiatric realm. Clearly established laws address things like when an older person hides that fact form an underaged one; Or when a person hides ssomething like a disease. Believe it or not, finding out that female is male at a most intimate moment after having been led to believe differently, is sexual assault.
I don't think murder is warranted, nor is stabbing someone 7 times in the process of fleeing. But the transgender community needs to get a grip on thier tactics or they may see many, many more of these events.

A second killing of this nature was just adjudicated in Modesto, CA. The killer recieved 4 years.
Guess what?
The plea bargain accepted here was not offered as in the Gwens case. Any speculation as to why?

As a separate issue to the above question:
Ask any psychiatrist, and you'll see that sexual assault has many forms. Hiding something from a sexual partner falls under the assault theme in the psychiatric realm. Clearly established laws address things like when an older person hides that fact form an underaged one; Or when a person hides ssomething like a disease. Believe it or not, finding out that female is male at a most intimate moment after having been led to believe differently, is sexual assault.
I don't think murder is warranted, nor is stabbing someone 7 times in the process of fleeing. But the transgender community needs to get a grip on thier tactics or they may see many, many more of these events.

A second killing of this nature was just adjudicated in Modesto, CA. The killer recieved 4 years.
Guess what?
The plea bargain accepted here was not offered as in the Gwens case. Any speculation as to why?

As a separate issue to the above question:
Ask any psychiatrist, and you'll see that sexual assault has many forms. Hiding something from a sexual partner falls under the assault theme in the psychiatric realm. Clearly established laws address things like when an older person hides that fact form an underaged one; Or when a person hides ssomething like a disease. Believe it or not, finding out that female is male at a most intimate moment after having been led to believe differently, is sexual assault.
I don't think murder is warranted, nor is stabbing someone 7 times in the process of fleeing. But the transgender community needs to get a grip on thier tactics or they may see many, many more of these events.

A second killing of this nature was just adjudicated in Modesto, CA. The killer recieved 4 years.
Guess what?
The plea bargain accepted here was not offered as in the Gwens case. Any speculation as to why?

As a separate issue to the above question:
Ask any psychiatrist, and you'll see that sexual assault has many forms. Hiding something from a sexual partner falls under the assault theme in the psychiatric realm. Clearly established laws address things like when an older person hides that fact form an underaged one; Or when a person hides ssomething like a disease. Believe it or not, finding out that female is male at a most intimate moment after having been led to believe differently, is sexual assault.
I don't think murder is warranted, nor is stabbing someone 7 times in the process of fleeing. But the transgender community needs to get a grip on thier tactics or they may see many, many more of these events.

"the transgender community needs to get a grip on thier tactics"

"their tactics"???

Your saying that individual people's sexuality is the responsibility of everyone with the same sexual orientation?

I'm saying that in contrast to the person who lumped all transgender crime into one defense.
I'd certainly like to believe that all transgenders would not seek to decieve thier sexual partners.

boy!! It looks like my posting finger got away from me here. Any way to delete the multiple posts?

Your presumption of deception is based on what, exactly? Furthermore, why is it OK to seek a lesser sentance on the basis of a presumed deception, when other forms of withholding (such as adultery) aren't acceptable? Or are you saying that adultery is an acceptable cause to lessen a sentance as well?

All in all, I smell transphobia just around the corner...

I didn't mean that it was ok to seek. I meant it was not ok to decieve. And adultry is not a California crime that I know of. The point I was making on that part of my post, was in relation to the claim one person, who was speaking out about transgender people, made that a sentence handed down, or a lesser prosecution was going to mean some sort of open season on transexuals/transgenders.
But that would not take into consideration, the individual circumstances involved. And, as I was reading the facts surrounding both recent cases, one was a rather immediate response to what was determined to be a sexual assault, and the other was a later contrived conspiracy after the fact. But in both instances, there appeared to be an attempt at deception involved, if not a completed act of such.
In the most recent sentence, the killer may have walked completely had he not stabbed the other person so many times. Quite obviously, if he felt he was sexually assaulted, he may have been excused for stabbing his partner once or twice if the particular circumstances surrounding the act gave way to that sort of response. But it would be extremely difficult to conjure up a defense for 17 stab wounds.
On your adultrous question:
A similar defense may have been used if say a woman was lured into a sexual liason with her husband and then just at the height of intimacy, another man or woman suddenly and abruptly inserted themselves in at the request of the adulteror. This would also be viewed as sexual assault, and the reaction of the aggreived person would be weighed against the deception also.
In no way am I saying that either is a license to kill. Each circumstance must be examined. But more importantly, some activists are using these events to lobby for some overall, far reaching protected status such as hate crime statues, when some primary rules of human behavior should first be applied.
Decieving someone is pretty much known to be un-acceptable behavior.
Compounding that behavior by employing it in a sexual situation is blatant sexual assault. And I see no reason not to educate people about this. Human condition being what it is, you cannot seek to educate people about transexuals so as not to be afraid or discriminatory of them without covering the flip side of that coin and educate transgenders that it isn't mandatory or required that they be accepted either.

I really don't know where to begin -- but suffice it to say, your logic is incredibly flawed. Given the various nut jobs that we have to deal with, the last thing we need is people justifying the actions of our murderers. Please do your homework before you start accusing us of being "deceptive."

And what is a nut job?
I do have my facts first. And I never justified murder. Quite contrarily, I stated otherwise. But one must examine the attitude of the justice system without prejudice in order to see why they decide who and how much to prosecute.
Both crimes were prosecuted. Both had different circumstances. Neither could be used as a generalization that transgender people are under some sort of assault, and as such need special protection. In either case, the perpetrators did not go out specifically seeking transgender people, or partners. In fact, both instances had the deceased misleading the killers by hiding thier sexual identities. In Gwens' case, the perpetrators went out looking for a specific person, not just any transexual. They also felt they were victimized by a sexual assault by a specific person, not transexuals in general. Deception is not a good way to begin a relationship.
I'm not justifying the response. Obviously the DA felt there was still crime, and the defenses argument was not justifiably sound. But the courts, and the prosecutors are weighing into evidence, the individual circumstances. Both cases are different, so a blanket statement drawn on those two cases cannot be applied in as much as it refers to hate crime status.
Clearly Gwens murder would be somewhat closer to one, but it could hardly be classified as a prime example, or clearly delineated one. And it would have likely been much different if the murder had occurred at the time of the original sexual liason.
But in the second case, the crime occurred during the sexual encounter, and the deception involved gave way to no clear hate crime. Rather, the mindset of the accused and the deception of the victim was able to overshadow the application of hate crime status.
I am not making the rules here, just trying to point out some rather misunderstood points about how they apply statues, and thier points of prosecution. Remeber, they have to prove this all to a jury.
Rallying around both cases, although they have high visibility, might be more damaging to any strategy of securing more legal protection for transgender people than if it's worth. Surely there are hundreds of cases where transgendered people are beaten or otherwise harmed, that do not carry the baggage of either of the two cases mentioned prior.
Are you aware that the second case mentioned did not get nearly the publicity or the attention of such, as Gwens case?
I do not believe that the circumstances alone were the sole reason for that.