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Indybay Feature
Mass Anti-War March on Saturday, September 24th in San Francisco
Thousands will march on Saturday, September 24 in Washington DC, San Francisco, Los Angeles. The A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition urges the antiwar movement to come together for a united demonstration.
The San Francisco protest will gather at 11am in Dolores Park (19th and Dolores).
--
The demands of the demonstration
While we organize around the demand for the immediate and unconditional withdrawal of the U.S. from Iraq, it is essential that the movement show the connection between the war in Iraq and all the other fronts of the U.S. government's war for Empire, including the struggle of working and poor people in the United States. The demands for the demonstration include:
Stop the War in Iraq
End Colonial Occupation
from Iraq to Palestine to Haiti
Support the Palestinian People’s Right of Return
Stop the Threats Against
Venezuela, Cuba, Iran & North Korea
U.S. out of the Philippines
Bring all the troops home now
Stop the Racist, anti-Immigrant and anti-Labor
Offensive at Home, Defend Civil Rights
http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_S24index#Demands
Call to Action
The anti-war movement must make a precise estimate of the direction of the White House, the Pentagon and Congress as it charts its next steps for mass mobilization.
The people of the United States must mobilize against the global War for Empire that masks itself as the so-called “war on terrorism” and falsely promotes itself as the “march for democracy.”
The people of Iraq are insisting that the United States leave their country immediately. As in Vietnam, the people of the United States must demand the immediate end to this war of conquest. As we fight to end the war in Iraq, we recognize that it is not enough to focus on a single front in this War for Empire. We must unite on a principled basis that recognizes the reality of our epoch. How can this war drive come to an end? People in Iraq, in Palestine, in Haiti, in Venezuela, in Cuba are resisting but the people of the United States must become their allies. Their resistance is part of the universal aspiration to live free from foreign domination or threats of a military or economic character.
The war and occupation of Iraq cannot be seen in isolation. The U.S. is actively attempting to destroy every government that resists the Empire. The Iraq war is not an aberration nor is it a “mistake” of conservative politicians. The war in Iraq is a necessary component in the political program and the institutions of global conquest and exploitation. This is what we must be fighting. We don’t want the troops to be brought home from Iraq only so that they can be deployed in the next front of imperialism. The people of the United States have every interest in renouncing the War for Empire that is directed by the U.S. plutocracy. The plutocrats have the wealth but the plutocracy is in inherent conflict with genuine democracy and with the needs of the people.
This is not just Bush’s war. It is not only a Republican or a neo-conservative campaign. Congress again just rubber-stamped the next $82 billion appropriation to finance the criminal occupation of Iraq. The vote in the Senate was 99-0! The amount spent on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is now over $350 billion. Likewise, it is the White House and Congress and both big business parties that wholeheartedly support the funding of the ongoing war against the people of Palestine. The occupation of Haiti, carried out by proxy forces, is nonetheless a project of U.S. and French imperialism. The U.S. establishment is preparing to overthrow the government of Venezuela, just as every successive administration has sought, unsuccessfully, to overthrow the Cuban revolution since 1959. While the Pentagon possesses the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet, the White House and Congress and both parties join together with the Corporate-owned media to paint Iran and North Korea as looming nuclear threats. For more than 100 years the people of the Philippines have struggled, and are struggling today, to reclaim authentic sovereign control over their own country, free from endless U.S. interference.
It is time to take to the streets again today, as we have throughout the last few years, to demonstrate the growing opposition inside this country to the War for Empire. Every working person in the United States must know that the corporate, political and military establishment is using our tax dollars, and the lives of our sons and daughters, to wage their global war. It is a war for domination. It is a war for the benefit of U.S. banks, oil monopolies, and transnational corporations. These are the very same corporate entities that are slashing wages, health care coverage, pensions and outsourcing millions of jobs to make super-profits from the super-exploitation of low-wage labor.
The Bush administration cries poverty when it comes to meeting Social Security’s obligations as well as the funding for education, health care and housing. There is no poverty claim, however, for the Pentagon and its corporate contractors: the real military spending level for the next year will be over $600 billion.
Instead of paying for endless war, we demand that the resources be used to meet human needs here and around the world. Instead of acting as shock troops for Empire, we demand that the soldiers and sailors in the U.S. military be provided decent paying jobs at union wages, the right to go to college, and an immediate increase in veterans benefits.
On September 24 we will march and rally starting at the White House in Washington D.C. There will be coordinated actions that day in San Francisco and Los Angeles.
The U.S. government says it is promoting the march for democracy and freedom abroad. What a sham. They pretend to promote freedom abroad but at the same time fan the flames of racism, anti-immigrant discrimination, sexism, homophobia and bigotry of all forms at home.
There is nothing more urgent than to construct unity in the face of Empire. Real unity cannot be built by sacrificing the rights of some but rather it will be forged by embracing everyone’s rights and just struggles for liberation. United we are the majority. United we can fight and win.
http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_S24index#call
--
The demands of the demonstration
While we organize around the demand for the immediate and unconditional withdrawal of the U.S. from Iraq, it is essential that the movement show the connection between the war in Iraq and all the other fronts of the U.S. government's war for Empire, including the struggle of working and poor people in the United States. The demands for the demonstration include:
Stop the War in Iraq
End Colonial Occupation
from Iraq to Palestine to Haiti
Support the Palestinian People’s Right of Return
Stop the Threats Against
Venezuela, Cuba, Iran & North Korea
U.S. out of the Philippines
Bring all the troops home now
Stop the Racist, anti-Immigrant and anti-Labor
Offensive at Home, Defend Civil Rights
http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_S24index#Demands
Call to Action
The anti-war movement must make a precise estimate of the direction of the White House, the Pentagon and Congress as it charts its next steps for mass mobilization.
The people of the United States must mobilize against the global War for Empire that masks itself as the so-called “war on terrorism” and falsely promotes itself as the “march for democracy.”
The people of Iraq are insisting that the United States leave their country immediately. As in Vietnam, the people of the United States must demand the immediate end to this war of conquest. As we fight to end the war in Iraq, we recognize that it is not enough to focus on a single front in this War for Empire. We must unite on a principled basis that recognizes the reality of our epoch. How can this war drive come to an end? People in Iraq, in Palestine, in Haiti, in Venezuela, in Cuba are resisting but the people of the United States must become their allies. Their resistance is part of the universal aspiration to live free from foreign domination or threats of a military or economic character.
The war and occupation of Iraq cannot be seen in isolation. The U.S. is actively attempting to destroy every government that resists the Empire. The Iraq war is not an aberration nor is it a “mistake” of conservative politicians. The war in Iraq is a necessary component in the political program and the institutions of global conquest and exploitation. This is what we must be fighting. We don’t want the troops to be brought home from Iraq only so that they can be deployed in the next front of imperialism. The people of the United States have every interest in renouncing the War for Empire that is directed by the U.S. plutocracy. The plutocrats have the wealth but the plutocracy is in inherent conflict with genuine democracy and with the needs of the people.
This is not just Bush’s war. It is not only a Republican or a neo-conservative campaign. Congress again just rubber-stamped the next $82 billion appropriation to finance the criminal occupation of Iraq. The vote in the Senate was 99-0! The amount spent on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is now over $350 billion. Likewise, it is the White House and Congress and both big business parties that wholeheartedly support the funding of the ongoing war against the people of Palestine. The occupation of Haiti, carried out by proxy forces, is nonetheless a project of U.S. and French imperialism. The U.S. establishment is preparing to overthrow the government of Venezuela, just as every successive administration has sought, unsuccessfully, to overthrow the Cuban revolution since 1959. While the Pentagon possesses the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet, the White House and Congress and both parties join together with the Corporate-owned media to paint Iran and North Korea as looming nuclear threats. For more than 100 years the people of the Philippines have struggled, and are struggling today, to reclaim authentic sovereign control over their own country, free from endless U.S. interference.
It is time to take to the streets again today, as we have throughout the last few years, to demonstrate the growing opposition inside this country to the War for Empire. Every working person in the United States must know that the corporate, political and military establishment is using our tax dollars, and the lives of our sons and daughters, to wage their global war. It is a war for domination. It is a war for the benefit of U.S. banks, oil monopolies, and transnational corporations. These are the very same corporate entities that are slashing wages, health care coverage, pensions and outsourcing millions of jobs to make super-profits from the super-exploitation of low-wage labor.
The Bush administration cries poverty when it comes to meeting Social Security’s obligations as well as the funding for education, health care and housing. There is no poverty claim, however, for the Pentagon and its corporate contractors: the real military spending level for the next year will be over $600 billion.
Instead of paying for endless war, we demand that the resources be used to meet human needs here and around the world. Instead of acting as shock troops for Empire, we demand that the soldiers and sailors in the U.S. military be provided decent paying jobs at union wages, the right to go to college, and an immediate increase in veterans benefits.
On September 24 we will march and rally starting at the White House in Washington D.C. There will be coordinated actions that day in San Francisco and Los Angeles.
The U.S. government says it is promoting the march for democracy and freedom abroad. What a sham. They pretend to promote freedom abroad but at the same time fan the flames of racism, anti-immigrant discrimination, sexism, homophobia and bigotry of all forms at home.
There is nothing more urgent than to construct unity in the face of Empire. Real unity cannot be built by sacrificing the rights of some but rather it will be forged by embracing everyone’s rights and just struggles for liberation. United we are the majority. United we can fight and win.
http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_S24index#call
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Here we go again. "Thousand will march..." Yeah, right. ANSWER always sponsors these "mass mobilizations" that end up being the same 200 people who go to all these things. Maybe they can just rent a playground from Rec and Park and bother the pigeons. Old and tired.
Not sure how many people can fill up CIvic Center and Market St but its seems lke maybe a little bit more than 200 people. Are you sure you didnt mean 200,000?
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/01/1562069.php
Maybe you mistook a comma for a decimal point?
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/01/1562069.php
Maybe you mistook a comma for a decimal point?
somewhere between thirteen and twenty million people marched that day. It didn't stop the invasion, proving once and for all that protest alone is not enough. The only solution is world revolution.
typical republican coward--no courage, no knowledge, no critical thinking skills---only the ability to make infantile, inflammatory remarks
but if 20 republicans stage a demonstration outside of where they are trying to count votes in Florida, they will drop everything and stop counting the votes. The people have spoken after all.
okay here is where we need to advocate for large scale civil disobedience. The protests are great, but those people need to put on scarfs, masks, or whatever and damage some property and actually disturb the federal government physically. It worked for Vietnam it can work Now.
Think about it. The police forces can be compromised by the masses of people.
I am not trying to incite a riot, just wake some people up. The republican party constantly let's the American people down, and it's getting old.
War, oil and hurting people is what the republicans are about. Lets give them a taste of their own medicine.
Think about it. The police forces can be compromised by the masses of people.
I am not trying to incite a riot, just wake some people up. The republican party constantly let's the American people down, and it's getting old.
War, oil and hurting people is what the republicans are about. Lets give them a taste of their own medicine.
Widescale civil unrest, including riots really could help bring an end to war. Organized small-scale property damage during relatively small demonstrations usually backfires by giving the newsmedia a nonwar related story to cover. It also often turns activists focus off the war itself and on to defending protesters. Propert damage does make a demonstration more exciting and makes it easier for it to get more media coverage but if the covergae isnt aboutt he war but about the protesters its questionable if it helps the issue being protested (unless the outrage leading to the property damage is seen as widespread so the rioting can be presented as the general public bieng so upset it wont take anymore rather than just a small group that wants attention)
You want an anti-war protest, but you also want to damage people/govt property to get your point across? And then, when the police are brought in, you claim of being hurt by a police officer because you couldn't control yourself? What???
Um, yeah between 12 and 13 million? So the entire population of San Francisco plus some vistors from the neighboring areas just stopped everything and went to a protest? Really?
Your a history buff? Yeah, I don't know who your getting your "version" of the story from but in mine Santa and the Easter Bunny give a great speech on a golf game they had with Krishna and Zeus.
A better estimate is 125,000. That is thousands, not millions. There is a difference. 13 million people protesting in one area would actually gain attention, and probably most of it from the National Guard, but attention nevertheless.
Your a history buff? Yeah, I don't know who your getting your "version" of the story from but in mine Santa and the Easter Bunny give a great speech on a golf game they had with Krishna and Zeus.
A better estimate is 125,000. That is thousands, not millions. There is a difference. 13 million people protesting in one area would actually gain attention, and probably most of it from the National Guard, but attention nevertheless.
Maybe you misunderstood the writer, but the 12-30 million figure was worldwide number, not a SanFrnacisco numebr.That numebr was enough to get the New York Times to say that the world anti-war movement was a second super-power. it however, sadly, was not enough to stop the war.
unless you're going to stay for an actual dialogue instead of running back to your "bubble" when presented with facts that are contrary to your baselss opinions
Look - 'U.S. Citizen' is clearly a troll or engaging in satire. Do you see how he's phrasing his statement? Nobody who even does civil disobedience woule express things like that. There are a number of trolls who spend time on indymedia doing things like posting pro-North Korean propaganda in order to try to confuse people who don't visit the site often into thinking it's a violent authoritarian propaganda website.
12-13 million would be a lot if in one country, but in the world. Well that is a different story. There are 9.5 million refugees running around. There are billions of people in single countries, 12 million having a problem is like 125,000 having a problem in the U.S. It doesn't constitute majority, and besides none of the major powers dare actually challenge the United States. China won't, and it is perhaps the one nation that could challenge the U.S. China won't because they can't cast the first stone so to speak.
Basically any power that can challenge the U.S. won't because to get to that level of power they had to do things just as bad as the U.S.
As for World Revolution, well people like the status quo. I mean how long ago was it that Marx wrote about this? Understand that where most young socialist/communists/anarchists make their mistake is assuming that their greatest enemy is the U.S. government/Capitalist system.
It isn't. People are actually your greatest enemy, because those same people you are trying to "liberate" are actually the ones who are most likely to kill you to protect the status quo. The reason is simple. It can come in the form of a question. "What rights can you give me that I don't already have?"
You see as much as the status quo may suck, I am guaranteed certain protections under it. I may gain more if the anti-establishment types win or, in the case of so many countries, I may in fact loose many of my liberties.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Why fight the status quo when it is so much easier and safer to exploit it for my own personal gain? That is a question that must be answered. Sadly this is why I feel the Republic win remain safe for many years to come.
Basically any power that can challenge the U.S. won't because to get to that level of power they had to do things just as bad as the U.S.
As for World Revolution, well people like the status quo. I mean how long ago was it that Marx wrote about this? Understand that where most young socialist/communists/anarchists make their mistake is assuming that their greatest enemy is the U.S. government/Capitalist system.
It isn't. People are actually your greatest enemy, because those same people you are trying to "liberate" are actually the ones who are most likely to kill you to protect the status quo. The reason is simple. It can come in the form of a question. "What rights can you give me that I don't already have?"
You see as much as the status quo may suck, I am guaranteed certain protections under it. I may gain more if the anti-establishment types win or, in the case of so many countries, I may in fact loose many of my liberties.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Why fight the status quo when it is so much easier and safer to exploit it for my own personal gain? That is a question that must be answered. Sadly this is why I feel the Republic win remain safe for many years to come.
I'm having fun over here. I do believe that every govt. is corrupt to one degree or another. it would be nice if they met all our needs before stuffing their own pockets, but doubt that will happen anytime soon.
In the mean time I will keep doing all that I do.i guess that makes me an evil war profiteer.
It's safe to say that most of you will never meet me and that is a good thing for you. Trashing someone elses stuff for your party, only tells me you need a good ass kicking. Then you'll be able to judge how effective that social security disability payment is.
Those of you that insist on revolution, what's your hoped for outcome? A Uganda? An Algeria? Maybe an Angola? Places that have been in turmoil for decades with large body counts. All of this because you don't like Bush and can't think of any other way to deal with the issue.
In the mean time I will keep doing all that I do.i guess that makes me an evil war profiteer.
It's safe to say that most of you will never meet me and that is a good thing for you. Trashing someone elses stuff for your party, only tells me you need a good ass kicking. Then you'll be able to judge how effective that social security disability payment is.
Those of you that insist on revolution, what's your hoped for outcome? A Uganda? An Algeria? Maybe an Angola? Places that have been in turmoil for decades with large body counts. All of this because you don't like Bush and can't think of any other way to deal with the issue.
Instead of posing the false alternatives of mostly-ineffectual peaceful protest and not-on-the-horizon world revolution, we need to create a political culture in which all kinds of actions that materially target the imperialist ruling class and its minions are honored and encouraged.
So what's the plan? The folks that want to trash stuff just make sure that shitloads of cops are on hand. The ones that want to yak and argue all day, manage to get their face on tv everynow and then but not much else.
The only thing I can think of is to buy your own politicians. Should not get anyone dead, which is a big plus in my book. What have you got?
The only thing I can think of is to buy your own politicians. Should not get anyone dead, which is a big plus in my book. What have you got?
I assure you that I, a thirteen year old girl, will DEFINATELY be there at the protest and will encourage other teens to atnd up for what they believe in and fight for it. Many children in my school LOVE Bush, but the problem is..they are not being exposed to the wrong doings of Bush equally as they are how great he is. You will see me there. GOD, ALLAH, BUDDHA, AND VISHNU BLESS YOU GUYS!!!
>not-on-the-horizon world revolution, we need to create a political culture in which all kinds of actions that materially target the imperialist ruling class and its minions are honored and encouraged.
Don't mistake insurrection for revolution. Revolution is an ongoing process. It's happening already. Whenever and wherever there are actions that materially target the imperialist ruling class and its minions, that *is* revolution.
Don't mistake insurrection for revolution. Revolution is an ongoing process. It's happening already. Whenever and wherever there are actions that materially target the imperialist ruling class and its minions, that *is* revolution.
The spirits/geists of those who died in Iraq, who lost someone in Iraq and the real living moral majority will be with us at Dolores Park at 11:00 AM on Saturday, Sept 24. We will have the doves of peace on our shoulders!
Pacifists against all wars and pain, the evil people.
That sounded great once:
I will come if I can find my Fickle Friend, Wendy.
"
Well, let me tell you 'bout the way she looked
The way she acts and the color of her hair
Her voice was soft and cool, her eyes were clear and bright
"
That sounded great once:
I will come if I can find my Fickle Friend, Wendy.
"
Well, let me tell you 'bout the way she looked
The way she acts and the color of her hair
Her voice was soft and cool, her eyes were clear and bright
"
Anarchist Action is calling for a Revolutionary Anti-Capitalist convergence at Sep. 24's anti-War March. Meet at 11 am, 16th & Mision to oppose the state of perpetual war and the system behind it!
Anarchist Action - San Francisco / http://www.anarchistaction.org
The fires of war rage in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, and across the globe. The United States empire continues to murder hundreds of thousands of people the world over, establishing regimes and destroying peoples to satisfy a never-ending lust for wealth, resources, and global power. The Empire now has its sights set on Iran.
Inside the heart of the empire, the rich are slashing workers’ real wages, benefits, pensions, and social services. Here in San Francisco they are reaping the benefits of burdening the working class by raising fares and cutting services on MUNI public transportation. They too are ripping communities apart through greedy redevelopment schemes and gentrification. Down on the border, racist, white nationalists, the Minutemen and their politician allies are mobilizing forces using the social atmosphere of xenophobia that was whipped up by 9/11 and the Iraq war to justify their vigilante actions and racist legislation.
On Sep. 24, A.N.S.W.E.R., UFPJ, and others are calling for mass protests against the war, which will remain largely routine and symbolic. Coincidently Sep. 24 is when the major capitalist financial institutions, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, are meeting in Washington, D.C. to make plans for further corporate and imperial control.
Anarchist Action is calling for a revolutionary Anti-Capitalist Convergence Against the War that same day - take the streets to resist the war and the system behind it! As long as there is capitalism - and the state to support it - this perpetual state of war, racism, sexism, and xenophobia will continue.
Anarchists are involved in building a mass revolutionary movement and are using direct action to resist capitalism, war, the state, and all forms of social oppression (such as racism, patriarchy, heterosexism, etc.). The mainstream anti-war movement has been stuck in routine, boring, and reformist models that have not provided a serious threat to the war and, more importantly, the system behind it. Symbolic marches and petitioning legislators have not proven effective in stopping the war. Unlike the established Left, we do not seek to control or lead protesters or the movement. Instead, we seek to provide a directly democratic space where people can use a diversity of tactics in autonomous resistance and be actively engaged in the fight for freedom, liberation, and social revolution.
Converge on 16th and Mission Plaza in SF, 11am, September 24 to oppose the state of perpetual war and the system behind it!
Anarchist Action - San Francisco / http://www.anarchistaction.org
The fires of war rage in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, and across the globe. The United States empire continues to murder hundreds of thousands of people the world over, establishing regimes and destroying peoples to satisfy a never-ending lust for wealth, resources, and global power. The Empire now has its sights set on Iran.
Inside the heart of the empire, the rich are slashing workers’ real wages, benefits, pensions, and social services. Here in San Francisco they are reaping the benefits of burdening the working class by raising fares and cutting services on MUNI public transportation. They too are ripping communities apart through greedy redevelopment schemes and gentrification. Down on the border, racist, white nationalists, the Minutemen and their politician allies are mobilizing forces using the social atmosphere of xenophobia that was whipped up by 9/11 and the Iraq war to justify their vigilante actions and racist legislation.
On Sep. 24, A.N.S.W.E.R., UFPJ, and others are calling for mass protests against the war, which will remain largely routine and symbolic. Coincidently Sep. 24 is when the major capitalist financial institutions, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, are meeting in Washington, D.C. to make plans for further corporate and imperial control.
Anarchist Action is calling for a revolutionary Anti-Capitalist Convergence Against the War that same day - take the streets to resist the war and the system behind it! As long as there is capitalism - and the state to support it - this perpetual state of war, racism, sexism, and xenophobia will continue.
Anarchists are involved in building a mass revolutionary movement and are using direct action to resist capitalism, war, the state, and all forms of social oppression (such as racism, patriarchy, heterosexism, etc.). The mainstream anti-war movement has been stuck in routine, boring, and reformist models that have not provided a serious threat to the war and, more importantly, the system behind it. Symbolic marches and petitioning legislators have not proven effective in stopping the war. Unlike the established Left, we do not seek to control or lead protesters or the movement. Instead, we seek to provide a directly democratic space where people can use a diversity of tactics in autonomous resistance and be actively engaged in the fight for freedom, liberation, and social revolution.
Converge on 16th and Mission Plaza in SF, 11am, September 24 to oppose the state of perpetual war and the system behind it!
For more information:
http://anarchistaction.org
That means they'll be stretched mighty thin other places.
All available officiers will be with the ANSWER march- I suggest a different location for our march- away from the overweight, middle aged ANSWER people. Anyone interested?
Why not break up into small, agile units and spread out over the city?
But that may dilute the impact of our message. What thinks you?
To whom do you intend to deliver it?
"to Whom"?
to me, centers of irrepressible capitalism provide us with the opportunity to make the most impact- by preventing the denial of the "oh well life goes on" mentality. Yet they are the most difficult to infilitrate
to me, centers of irrepressible capitalism provide us with the opportunity to make the most impact- by preventing the denial of the "oh well life goes on" mentality. Yet they are the most difficult to infilitrate
Whose denial? The voyeurs? Which ones? The ones on the sidewalk? They ones at home watching TV? Who?
How will that impede the war machine?
Why attack denial? Why not attack the war machine itself?
How will that impede the war machine?
Why attack denial? Why not attack the war machine itself?
How do you attack the machine, itself?
Camping out in Crawford- symbolic
Military Counseling- symbolic
Not an answer- more symbols.
Military Counseling- symbolic
Not an answer- more symbols.
(1.) I never suggested camping out in Crawford. I suggested strikes, sabotage and mutiny. Really, scroll up and see for yourselves.
(2.) As for military counseling, it really depends on what they are counseled to do, and whether they do it. Some people counsel soldiers to shoot their officers, wreck their equipment and then desert. That's direct action. It's the main reason the Americans withdrew from Viet Nam. You can't fight a war without soldiers.
(2.) As for military counseling, it really depends on what they are counseled to do, and whether they do it. Some people counsel soldiers to shoot their officers, wreck their equipment and then desert. That's direct action. It's the main reason the Americans withdrew from Viet Nam. You can't fight a war without soldiers.
shooting officers, especially higher ups such as generals, is always the best way to end a war. the reasoning here is that killing one or two dozen generals will have the immediate effect of terrorizing the lower levels in the officer ranks.
if you can assassinate say 40-50 generals, this puts all officers on notice that they are under attack.
imagine the glory of it, but more importantly the EFFICIENCY: with the elimination of only a few people, 100s of thousands of innocent lives are saved!!!!!!
/s/ peace on earth - goodwill to men!!!!
[strike, sabotage and mutiny
by history buff Friday, Sep. 16, 2005 at 8:21 AM
It's been done before:
http://www.nlg.org/mltf/links.html]
as Aaron Aarons posted here a week or so ago, David Cortwright's book, Soldiers in Revolt, reissued, and available in all reputable books stores, tells all about it
I've read about 2/3 of it, amazing stuff
--Richard
by history buff Friday, Sep. 16, 2005 at 8:21 AM
It's been done before:
http://www.nlg.org/mltf/links.html]
as Aaron Aarons posted here a week or so ago, David Cortwright's book, Soldiers in Revolt, reissued, and available in all reputable books stores, tells all about it
I've read about 2/3 of it, amazing stuff
--Richard
Great book. Available at Bound Together.
I'm sorry, but just how does the Mission District qualify? The last protest ended up being a raggedy game of tag between cops and protestors that resulted in the broken windows of some poor shopkeepers. And a little extra trash left on the streets when they were done.
Marching in the Mission is totally ineffectual. No one with any power will hear your message firsthand, and the media really doesn't care what goes on here. You will get no coverage and have no positive effect.
If you aren't willing to step out of the safety zone of poorer neighborhoods, and take the protest somewhere that you might actually run into people who don't agree with you enough to engage you, then you might as well just get together at home and circle jerk there.
If you want media attention - which is the only kind of positive results you have even a hope of getting - meet at the Federal Building, then march through Pac Heights to the Marina. Portesting to a bunch of poor families, hipster kids, artists, aging hippies, teenage drug dealers and homeless people - the people I happily call my neighbors - is sound and fury...well, you know the rest of the quote.
Marching in the Mission is totally ineffectual. No one with any power will hear your message firsthand, and the media really doesn't care what goes on here. You will get no coverage and have no positive effect.
If you aren't willing to step out of the safety zone of poorer neighborhoods, and take the protest somewhere that you might actually run into people who don't agree with you enough to engage you, then you might as well just get together at home and circle jerk there.
If you want media attention - which is the only kind of positive results you have even a hope of getting - meet at the Federal Building, then march through Pac Heights to the Marina. Portesting to a bunch of poor families, hipster kids, artists, aging hippies, teenage drug dealers and homeless people - the people I happily call my neighbors - is sound and fury...well, you know the rest of the quote.
No one with any power will *listen* to our message, firsthand, second hand or at all. They don't care what we think because they don't have to care what we think. Demos are a waste of time. What we need are lynch mobs. Bring back the guillotine. Mount heads on pikes. Then they'll pay attention. In the meantime, to them we are nothing but livestock. We bleat and bray in vain.
While I agree that the demos really don't get any message across, you are still a complete idiot for going knee-jerk vigilante.
It's not "knee jerk." It's the lesson of carefully studied history. Never once has any ruling class ever given up its power peacefully, not once. These men must be cast down by force, or it wont happen at all.
ANSWER is very much into routes that go through housing projects such as the Western Addition on side streets - perhaps it's the underlying socialist vanguardist perspective of the group running answer. I see marchers waving their signs at the few people looking out their windows who probably aren't even voters, when those signs are really for other participants plus whatever media reports that the people there are able to write and spread. This isn't to say that there is no purpose, because the Chronicle article and 1-3 minutes on evening news is important to show this country that there is a substantial antiwar block - in fact, the majority opposes having troops over there right now and thinks it was a bad idea to enter Iraq even though the democrats barely will support this majority position.
"I see marchers waving their signs at the few people looking out their windows who probably aren't even voters"
Why does it matter whether they vote?
Why does it matter whether they vote?
What do the marchers hope to achieve then by waving signs with clever slogans about Bush at perhaps 200-600 people along the route? Really big marches go down Market street - on Sunday, and the medium sized and small go through western Addition or to Mission and 18th and then to Market. Do we think that the people in the apartments looking down don't already agree or will be motivated to do something by especially witty and artistic props?
Voting doesn't change shit and neither do protests. There's only one public reaction the ruling pigs take seriously, and that's the possibility that their heads might get hacked off their necks. That's what started brewing in the 1930s when people were watching their children starve. That's why they tossed us a fat bone called the New Deal and sure enough we settled right back down. Then in the 1960s it became clear the Civil Rights movement would evolve into a warrior underground if something wasn't done, so they tossed another fat bone: the Great Society. These are the two great social welfare concessions of the past 80 years. Aside from this it's all been downhill, and now they're even rolling these back
As long as you keep sucking down this pacifism crap, they don't have to think about you and they know it. The unquestioning acceptance of pacifism in the left is this PR machine's grandest Orwellian triumph. Why do you think the tube, magazines, movies, etc. keep blasting you with images of Ghandi, King, etc. as the great leftist Gods? Isn't it clear by now that the major media are one giant propaganda machine? Whose interest does this message really serve? You can bet your ass it's not you.
Same goes for "love conquers all" (and it's unspoken corollary, "hatred is evil/insane"). This comes out of the Christian religious tradition, meaning the West's primary means of mind control for 1400+ years. Hatred is the only emotion that throws off the chains of fear, and hating your mortal enemy is NOT wrong!
Rise, like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fall'n on you
YE ARE MANY
THEY ARE FEW
-- P B Shelley
As long as you keep sucking down this pacifism crap, they don't have to think about you and they know it. The unquestioning acceptance of pacifism in the left is this PR machine's grandest Orwellian triumph. Why do you think the tube, magazines, movies, etc. keep blasting you with images of Ghandi, King, etc. as the great leftist Gods? Isn't it clear by now that the major media are one giant propaganda machine? Whose interest does this message really serve? You can bet your ass it's not you.
Same goes for "love conquers all" (and it's unspoken corollary, "hatred is evil/insane"). This comes out of the Christian religious tradition, meaning the West's primary means of mind control for 1400+ years. Hatred is the only emotion that throws off the chains of fear, and hating your mortal enemy is NOT wrong!
Rise, like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fall'n on you
YE ARE MANY
THEY ARE FEW
-- P B Shelley
because you all will fit in better...
or you folks can be real contributors to the country you live in, go to NOLA and pick up a shovel and learn what is really going on in the deep south...
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