Foie Gras Campaign: Sustained Presence at Aqua in S.F.

foie gras sold at Marin farmers' market....

foie gras is on sale at the charcuterie (? spelling) [french meats] stall at the farmers' market held on Sundays at the Marin civic center. The stand is on the right-hand side (with the bakers and craft sellers) as you enter the market...about five or six stalls down on the west side of that aisle.

the street and sidewalk in front of the market are, of course, public spaces, and were filled with political solicitations before the election.

the stall selling foie gras prominently displays Niman Ranch labels and signs. wonder if Niman Ranch wants to be associated with foie gras....bet they don't.

good luck! fuck shit up...don't get caught...love y'all...

C'mon. Foie Gras is not about force the entire country to take a stand. But.....

The Antiwar movement is.
and maybe even the Million Worker March Movement....

but certainly not the mighty anti-foie gras movement.

This is what Marxists call diversionary because it diverts what precious little time and energy there is in the movement today and directs it at something that is frankly not primary, not secondary, not tertiary, not even on the rader screen. The number of people who eat foie gras are tiny. They are mainly very wealthy and there is no possibility of this becoming a mass movement. Most of us will be "boycotting" Aqua because we cannot afford to get in.

When working people who want a social change in this country look at these kinds of campaigns, they generally laugh and then cry. What an incredible waste of time.

It's been put on the "radar screen" by people who give a shit.

Please don't let it impede your work.

Often times animal rights and workers rights go hand in hand. As some of the same forces that allow people to not think about the things that happen at poultry farms, allows workers to also be treated disrespectfully by the same bosses. Many people see this connection, and contrary to how some people feel(Marxists or rich people), these issues are connected. Unfortunately people don't try to connect the dots too often, but there are animal rights folks and union folks that do.

"Many people see this connection"

how do you know?

I know about this because I have been around different farmworker unions for years now and many people involved in those organizing efforts have been inspired by animal rights campaigns and sought to work with animal rights and vegan/vegetarian groups conciously. This history goes back further than that though as Cesar Chavez and many other folks associated with the UFW have also seen different connections and have even become macrobiotic or been influenced by exposure to animal rights folks. Folks with the Oregon based farm worker union, PCUN, are not only fond of working with animal rights/vegan/vegetarian groups, but were also fond of vegan pizzas and other food.

pretty vague to me.

how do i know it's not just more leftie wishful thinking?

How many? What percent of the PCUN do they account for? What is the PCUN's official policy vis a vis animal rights?

What about my rights to enjoy diverse culinary culture? What about my rights to pleasure? What about my rights to enjoy eating any food I please? What about my rights to put into my body anything I chose? What about my rights to eat what I want or don't want?

This isn't about "animal cruelty", this is about you instituting a monoculture based on religiousity and self-righteousness.

PETA and other animal rights activists are neo-fascists.

Animal rights activists are giving people info on how their lifestyle choices are effecting other living beings, the ecosystem and even their own bodies..

Your percieved freedom to choose to eat force fed ducks is based on a system that enables corporations to dominate the natural ecosystem, subvert it to their demands, and then profit from the pain and suffering of other living beings..

In this process the ecosystem, animals and humans suffer. Eating meat requires extra resources (ex. grain) that could be used to feed truly hungry people. The trophic pyramid is a term used in biology that describes the process of energy conversion from a plant (primary producer) to an herbivore (primary consumer) to a carnivore (secondary consumer). Each step loses energy from food converted to heat. We humans have a choice to be either primary or secondary consumers. If we choose to be primary consumers, we get our energy directly from plants and therefore use less energy. That way there is more food to go around..

A great deal of agriculture is needed to support America's ravenous appetite for meat products. This land that is used to grow plant matter for livestock feed is taken away from the native ecosystem and being wasted on overconsumption of meat products..

Meanwhile people starve worldwide from lack of food availability..

those same libertarian arguements, Nessie, could me made about any category on this site...

what about my right to hire and fire whomever I want and pay what I want? or what about my right to work? unions are fascists

what about my right to be able to decide to whom I rent? or what about my right to associate with whom I please? affirmative action and gay rights groups are facists

what about my right to do with my land, land I own, anything I damn well please? what about my right to hunt bald eagles? environmentalists are fascists

when you don't like something throw out the fascist boogeyman

you ate everything you wanted today... and maybe you even stopped by Aqua for a bite, so cool it on the hyperbolic scare tactics

"Animal rights activists are giving people info on how their lifestyle choices are effecting other living beings, the ecosystem and even their own bodies.."

NO THEY ARE NOT! They are intimidating, harassing, and threatening anyone who is a meat-eater, or gourmand, that violence will be inflicted upon them if they continue a behavior that these "animal rights" fascists doesn't like. They deplore violence against animals, but not humans. In this way, they are as hypocritical as "pro-life" activists who bomb abortion clinics to cry foul against what they consider is destruction of "innocent life".

"Your percieved freedom to choose to eat force fed ducks is based on a system that enables corporations to dominate the natural ecosystem, subvert it to their demands, and then profit from the pain and suffering of other living beings.."

Wrong! Corporations are those who are subsidized to grow grain, corn, and soy who are destroying our natural heritage and contributing to the loss of family-run businesses. Foie Gras producers are small, artisianal, producers catering to a small segment of the population. They may be inconsequential to you, but they are what makes up the diversity of food producers who aren't corporate and who incorporate old world traditions and culture into our culinary ways. These traditions are the antithesis of corporate culture!

"In this process the ecosystem, animals and humans suffer."

Not in the production of foie gras. Maybe in the production of strawberries...but are you blowing up any strawberry farms!? Ever heard of tenting strawberry fields and blasting the ground with dioxin?

"Eating meat requires extra resources (ex. grain) that could be used to feed truly hungry people. The trophic pyramid is a term used in biology that describes the process of energy conversion from a plant (primary producer) to an herbivore (primary consumer) to a carnivore (secondary consumer). Each step loses energy from food converted to heat. We humans have a choice to be either primary or secondary consumers. If we choose to be primary consumers, we get our energy directly from plants and therefore use less energy. That way there is more food to go around.."

You have a lot to learn about biology, because all of this is backwards. If you want to learn, read "Against The Grain". But we aren't talking about science with you animal rights nuts, we are talking about belief systems, and frankly we are talking about wrong belief systems adopted by juveniles and cranks who have something to prove; an agenda that is outside of the realm of current discussion and has more to do with fixing the disfunctions of their own behavior intricacies.

"A great deal of agriculture is needed to support America's ravenous appetite for meat products. This land that is used to grow plant matter for livestock feed is taken away from the native ecosystem and being wasted on overconsumption of meat products.."

Yet, the greatest commercial crops and the greatest subsidies towards them are vegetable (soy, wheat, rice).

"Meanwhile people starve worldwide from lack of food availability.."

They don't starve from foie gras production. They starve from distribution and politics!

Moral Crusaders...different age.

Here's a real issue to get worked up over, what you are going to tell your grandkids when they asked you what you did to stop the genocide in Iraq. Will you answer: I went to a foie gras demonstration? I helped to stop Rodeos? I stopped eating steak?

Or I devoted countless hours to the antiwar group I believed in the most?

http://www.iacenter.org
http://www.bauaw.org
http://www.internationalanswer.org
http://www.notinourname.net/
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/

100,000 Iraqis are estimated by British Medical Journal Lancet.

These dead humans were being killed by a foreign occupier--our US Government.

This is the issue facing the American public, not the foie gras ban or the suffering of livestock. This is the moral stain we as American will be forced to bear.

Do you want to help stop the ongoing war against Iraq just as the antiwar movement did during Vietnam? Or do you want to explain to your grandkids that you went to a foie de gras protest instead?

You decide.

because there just wasn't enough hectoring pouring outta FOX.

and we should always embrace corporate tactics in such a way as to maximize our corruption by them, while minimizing any effectiveness they might bring.

effing brilliant, that.

don't be so simple-minded as to think you can only fight on a single front

why not eat something besides steak (or foie gras) thereby reducing animal suffering and environmental degradation while you fight the good fight against the Iraq war?

you would agree driving a Hummer to a United for Peace meeting would probably not be a good idea. and hence issues outside of the most literal anti-war efforts do matter as well. likewise massive extra resources are consumed and wasted to produce meat in this country, including petroleum, and indirectly contribute to the backstory of W's war on the Middle East, just as wasting fuel with a Hummer does.

certainly, you wouldn't suggest people stop fighting for a cleaner environment or labor rights while the war continues (or at least I hope you wouldn't). surely we should not forfeit the fight in every arena and lose massive ground on other issues because W chose to reinvigorate US imperialism. I am quite sure that W et al are not just fighting a war in Iraq but are fighting the Left on countles fronts.

if you choose to spend your time exclusively volunteering for anti-war causes, that's all fine and well, just don't assume that those protesting extremely cruel foie gras (above and beyond most modern farming practices), or giant hog farms polluting waterways, do not also spend time fighting the war or other causes as well, and do not think that you can completely escape your personal responsibility in other issues -- such as the incredible wastefulness of driving a Hummer or domestic poverty issues, say, which influence who joins the US military primarily today -- as you put up the good fight to stop the war in Iraq

Yes, one can stop eating steak and even be a vegan and be a very effective antiwar activist. The question I was posing was that the foie gras protest is a diversion from the struggle most likely to affect real change in this country--the antiwar movement. A private decision to become a vegatarian is one thing. To elevate the importance of the foie gras campaign is an act of political absurdity. The two things are not comparable.

The antiwar movement holds the potential of unleashing the energy of tens if not hundreds of millions of US residents, and possibly even billions of people around the world. Vegetarianism, or even humane farming, as a cause does not have the same compelling draw, because the war may speed the ruination of the standard of living here, it will mean more working class dead here, and it will mean social reaction: militarization of society, patriotism, xenophobia, racism, and bigotry.

Protesting foie gras at a yuppie restaraunt doesn't do this. And the moral imperitive becomes clearer when expressed generationally: Grandma, what did you do when Bush started invading those countries?

Adam, you seem to be a bit preoccupied with your reputation with your grandkids. There's more to activism than legacy. And what will you say when your grandkids asked you what you did when you knew animals were being tortured by the billions on factory farms and fur farms and in labs? Will you tell them you were too busy getting high on your pipe dream of a revolutionary vanguard? This single issue communist bullshit went out in the 80s and for good reason. Post-Marxist social movement theory recognizes what a few other folks have already ilucidated: that struggles are interconnected and this "my way or the highway" communist rhetoric is just another hegemonic practice. Of course the anti-war movement is important, but it's not the only game in town. You seem to be assuming that foie gras protests are seen by AR activists as an end in themselves. They are not, and we know that. We don't expect them to create mass movements toward revolution. We DO expect them to be another small front in the struggle for total liberation, animal and human. It is a long long long battle, and if you're waiting for some revolutionary vanguard to whip everything together, you're in for a disappointment.

I am a longtime vegetarian/vegan, and I and many like me were in the streets of San Francisco making our voices heard the day after Bush invaded -- in fact I was arrested that day and detained for about 8 hours with 300-400 of my comrades (not all vegetarian, of course). Prior to the war, like millions worldwide, I was in the streets of SF and Oakland participating in marches and direct actions trying to prevent it from starting. Since it began, I have been involved in various efforts to slow or derail W's imperial dreams.

Unfortunately, though, W proudly claims he doesn't rule by polls (as he said around Feb 15th, 2003), like it or not he's about to be re-inaugurated for another 4-year term, and the war rolls on unabated. I only wish your dreams of hundreds of millions of Americans fighting the war were true -- it never would have even happened in the first place -- but unfortunately just over half of this country, give or take a few million depending on your reading of election results, think it was a good thing to do to invade Iraq.

Not every moment of every day can be spent fighting the war -- most of us have to work for a living, and sometimes eat. What were you actually doing, that shows a rock-solid chance of succeeding to stop the war between noon and 1pm last Friday? Most worker bees were eating lunch, while some chose to forgo lunch to try to help needlessly abused ducks. Might sound silly to you, but it's not to those invested in reducing animal suffering.

You are fully entitled to your opinion that protesting foie gras is a waste of time, but it is your opinion. Others think it is a very good use of a one hour lunch break because they are more sensitive to the cruelties imposed on animals, and they see in as a part, not the biggest part, mind you, but a part of humankind's tendencies towards oppressive and abusive behavior towards other people, animals and the earth. And it's not like there was a major anti-war protest or direct action going on that day and the foie gras protesters chose to stand in front of Aqua instead. Don't forget that those who come to the Lib page here are coming to Indybay, and not just some stand-alone Animal Rights page, because they are also down will labor rights, gay rights, against racism, against police abuses, and, yes, down with the anti-war cause.

If you want to be mad at someone about the war, how about all those millions in the US who not once stood up and said, "NO!", those who kick back, turn their heads, and ignore the pain and suffering caused by it all, and, shoot, those who even cheer it on?

I might not have grandchildren, but, hypothetically, if I do, I'll be able to tell them I fought the good fight on many fronts.

why do you evangelize a personal choice? many even make it a primary basis for judging other people. how is this any different than the religion mechanism?

Thanks for your response. Here are my comments.

Adam, you seem to be a bit preoccupied with your reputation with your grandkids.

Adam: Actually, I am not at all concerned. It is an illustrative technique.

There's more to activism than legacy. And what will you say when your grandkids asked you what you did when you knew animals were being tortured by the billions on factory farms and fur farms and in labs? Will you tell them you were too busy getting high on your pipe dream of a revolutionary vanguard?

Adam: I am attempting to dissect a flaw in logic of campaigning for the foie gras ban as a diversionary action.

Actually I believe there will be a chance for a revolution. I base my actions on the need for a revolution--that's true. You apparently believe there will believe there will be no revolution, that we will have to slave away under capitalism and its barbarism forever. I see a way out of that barbarism, but I don't think you do.
*****

This single issue communist bullshit went out in the 80s and for good reason. Post-Marxist social movement theory recognizes what a few other folks have already ilucidated: that struggles are interconnected and this "my way or the highway" communist rhetoric is just another hegemonic practice.

******

Adam: So you are now attempting to bring into question a world view. OK, but I think you are already going into a corner. The communist program is all inclusive, it is not single issue. Marxists seeks to unite with non-Marxists on single issue united fronts such as the compelling need to end the war. This tactic was pre-eminently sucessful during Vietnam. Many non-Marxists and confused Marxists try to tack together issues that are not intrinsically related as the basis of a united front. That actually weakens and limits the united front. Disciplined Marxists have argued for the limiting of a united front struggle to what seems to be a narrower field.

*****

Of course the anti-war movement is important, but it's not the only game in town.

***

Adam: Well, a revolutionary, as opposed to a reformist, attempts to identify movements, struggles and then apply tactics on the basis of what level of consciousness the masses of working people have, and where the masses are starting to move. We don't have an infinite amount of time to struggle. Either our efforts are have an effect toward this enourmously important struggle for complete social revolution, or they will be spent pissing on our own shoes.


*****
You seem to be assuming that foie gras protests are seen by AR activists as an end in themselves. They are not, and we know that. We don't expect them to create mass movements toward revolution. We DO expect them to be another small front in the struggle for total liberation, animal and human. It is a long long long battle, and if you're waiting for some revolutionary vanguard to whip everything together, you're in for a disappointment.

Adam: Although I don't accept your terms, obviously we have a big disagreement. The equation of animal rights to human rights exists only a relgious/moral plane of thought. We live in human society, not animal society. The protections domestic, wild and livestock animals have are dependent entirely on human society. The struggle for human liberation cannot be equated to that of animal liberation.

The real difference besides this we have (at least stated here) is that you seemed to be consigned to capitalism as an inevitable or natural state of human relations and resigned to a permanent protest as a the only way of permitting existence.

why reach out to yuppies? are you trying to reach them? if so, how is alienating them doing that? and if you don't care what they think, why the hell are you at aqua?

such a confusion your tactics belie.

Hey Adam,
Thanks for the response. I'm afraid external circumstances have me busy and I can't give the attention to your responses that they deserve. But let me just say that I am not at all content with capitalism, and would welcome sweeping change. That said I think throwing out reform altogether is too nihilistic. The change we need won't come through reform, but reform might take some of the pain out of people's lives who desparately need it. I think you're binary distinction between reform and revolution is too simplistic. Regarding the humans vs animals thing, I'd simply encourage you to compare your biases to the biases of times past. I think, based on your rhetoric, that you'd like the writings of Steven Best, a "revolutionary" and ardent animal rights supporter. For starters, check out: http://utminers.utep.edu/best/papers/vegenvani/commonnatures.htm.

I am a longtime vegetarian/vegan, and I and many like me were in the streets of San Francisco making our voices heard the day after Bush invaded -- in fact I was arrested that day and detained for about 8 hours with 300-400 of my comrades (not all vegetarian, of course).

whimper,whimper..
time to get a life, you drag the cause down with all your crying. please consider joining some other group. we don't need this type of "bad press"

And what exactly did this accomplish?

it apparently reinforced this person's already considerable sense of self-righteous moral superiority.

not unlike fundamentalist christians, it occurs to me...

Attempts to convince the really hard-core animal rights activists about the situation in Iraq will always be futile. Their only interest and involvement in collaborating with other movements comes down to hopes that they will convert a few new people to veganism.

True animal extremists only rejoice as they count dead Iraqis, Americans, and other human casualties in terms of the numbers of animals saved from their dinner plates. They have zero sympathy, since "millions of animals are slaughtered every day." Don't bother trying to talk sense to them since they will only smile and nod and scheme on alternate ways of attacking you while looking angelic themselves... it's their nature, and they're true believers who feel more pity for piglets than children caught in combat zones.

Not all vegans, vegetarians, or friends of animals are like that... yet discussing Iraq with the few who start "animals-first" arguments while demanding compliance with their beliefs are hardly respectful of your priorities.

Moveon.org, maybe you should consider saving your calories for a more honest audience and just move on. As for foie gras opponents and other meat protesters, you've made your choice so don't eat the stuff, just stop cramming your tofu down everybody else's throats. Like, I eat tofu, chicken, and fish -- but don't want to hear any innuendos about how my deliberate food choices somehow "prove" that vegan protestors are "better caretakers" of both the animal and human "kingdoms."

but one...

a minority of people, animal rights activists, remind you that they exist and care for the well-being of animals (and you only assume it's the only thing we care about)

it's like the repugs, who control the admin, the congress, the supreme court and statehouses all over, then whine that dissent exists at all -- they want 100% unaninimity

meateating is the dominant culture here -- don't be so threatened

when you calm down that some people don't think like you, and have big enough minds, and hearts, to care about animals as they fight other fights against human violence and injustice, then maybe you can be a more effective fighter for Iraq yourself. when you just spent your time assuming you know exactly what vegetarians think and attacking them for not being 100% of the same mind as you, what were YOU doing to stop the war in Iraq. obviously you are too easily distracted yourself if it's so important to you, and your swinging at the wrong target here -- vegetarians tend to be strongly anti-war (I don't know any who aren't)

oh, and if your feeling down that vegetarians exist, just go turn on the TV and have your dietary choice validated by mainstream culture (the same culture that just re-elected Bush and thinks the war is okay).

convert the yuppies, or confront them? either way, what on earth makes anyone think they're worth reaching, or convertible, or if not, how confroning them at aqua s.f. is going to stop them?

i mean, really-- i just don't get it....

That's because it's not very well thought out.

And that's because these people think with their hearts, not their brains. Wrong organ. Never works.

Simple explanation, not sure why you think you can speak for a movement you clearly don't understand.

To the other person who asked the rationale: the point is to pressure the restaurant to stop serving foie gras. If they are confronted frequently enough with the hassle of AR activists, they are likely to decide that it is bad for business, and that they should take it off the menu. Contrary to just thinking with our hearts (it's good for you, try it some time), we also think with our brains and understand the economics of it: foie gras is produced because restaurants like Aqua buy it and then sell it to their customers. Cut off the demand, and the supply goes down= less tortured ducks. The point is not to convert yuppies, but if they decide they don't want to support animal torture, great. The point is to target this node in the chain of command. It's one front in a multi-faceted attack. Hope that answers your question.

...while my heart feels for the animals..and the unbearable pain and suffering they feel... My "brain", as one writer accused us animal rights people of not using, is thinking...the meat industry causes more water pollution in the US than all other indistries combined..animals raised for food produce 130 times more excrement than the entire human pop. 86,600 per second!...I am also thinking...Of all agricultural land in the US 87 percent is used to raise animals for food..it requires 20 X'x more land to feed a meat eater than to feed a pure vegetarian...Let's see, I am also thinking...raising animals for food consumes more than half of all the water used in the US...2,500 gals to produce 1 lb of meat..25 gal for a lb of wheat...Oh yeah, and I am thinking ..rain forests are being destroyed at a rate of 125,000 sq mi per year to create space to raise animals for food..for every 1/4 pounder...55 sq ft of land are consumed.
Not to mention Energy...which I'm thinking...raising animals for food requires more than 1/3 of all raw materials and fossil fuels used in the US...1 hamburger (which comes from ground up, used to the max, dairy cows) uses enough fossil fuel to drive a small car 20 mi & take 17 showers...
source: http://www.goveg.com
You think you are an environmentalisl...and can eat meat?THINK, again.
The Aqua demos are not just about ducks and geese!!! It is about people...most of all! It is ironic that vegans are accused of caring more for animals than people...when in fact it is meat eaters that are hurting the starving children in this world the most! 37% of the worlds and 66% of the US grains goes to an animal for slaughter rather than to feed the worlds hungry!
Next time you cut into a "steak" or bite into a chicken nugget, or swallow a cut of veal..(call it what it is, a cow, a chicken or an infant cow)..and know that you have just taken food away from a hungry impoverished person!
Aww does my HEART good to share this with ya all!!!!

That's a load of crap. There is *no* shortage of food on this planet. Anyone with enough money can eat as much as they want. People starve because of capitalism, not food shortages.

"That's a load of crap. There is *no* shortage of food on this planet. Anyone with enough money can eat as much as they want. People starve because of capitalism, not food shortages."
My friend can't you see the correlation and duplicity of that statement...It is a "load of crap"...(86,600 pounds per second! LOL).
YOU ARE CORRECT "THERE IS NOT A FOOD SHORTAGE" AT ALL!! THIS IS MY POINT EXACTLY! IT IS A DISTRIBUTION PROBLEM! We must stop feeding the food to an animal for slaughter, (of course this means we would have to stop overbreeding them..and finally let them live in peace) by taking the dollars away from the "capitalist" meat and dairy industry...and give it to the people instead!!!...Make that statement with every bite you take and at every check out counter.

You have your rights...and don't let anyone take them away from you...Be grateful.
I am an avid animal rights activists who sees the difference as being this:
You have that right. but the animals, and all slaves throughout history, are treated as if they do not have the same rights..and on top of that they cannot speak for themselves. Who will...?
You also have a right to do something about the wrongs in this world...And I do to...while working on a lot of different issues of wrong... I choose to focus on this one..change is made with time peppered with education, speaking out, caring, patience.

You are correct. I am out there for both causes.
In return see how you can lend effort, in what ever degree, at:
http://www.goveg.com
http://www.sentientbeings.org
http://www.veganoutreach.com
It is not just about ducks and geese!! this is about people most of all!
Why not work on both causes...You care! You don't want slavery either...Iraqi's, and I venture to say, animals as well.
"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love." Pythagoras.."the first philosopher and vegetarian in the history of Western Civilization." quoted from a great little booklet called "the Rough Guide to Animal Rights"-AnimalRightsPress [at] yahoo.com

I understand why animal rights activists get upset by the treatment of geese in the making of fatted liver, but these sorts of attacks on such small, culturally interesting practices are really weakening the support for humane animal treatment in the bigger picture. I think that there is a rational, socialable way to approach the larger society in improving its treatment of animals, & that even a larger push towards a vegetarian diet is quite achievable without alienating your intended political victims. Factory chicken farms, for example, are horrifying regardless of whether you eat meat or not, & are practically set up to help people oppose the "death camp" style of chicken raising. Anyhow, just my 3 cents.