Kiddie Nazis and Nuts at SF City Hall

I'm not sure exactly how I feel about the people in these pictures.

Perhaps I should be upset, or maybe even angry...

But I just can't stop laughing!

They're just pathetic. I mean, if they weren't so dedicated to venemous hatred, I'd actually feel kinda sorry for them. Maybe I do, anyways.

Their signs don't make any sense. I'm sure I'd probably disagree with the messages on the signs if those messages were actually intelligible... but they're not.

BTW, the sign with the three monkeys had a handwritten line at the bottom, "Ferber v N.York." The reference is to the 1982 US Supreme Court case, "New York v Ferber," where the Court held that state laws which prohibit the distribution of kiddie porn do not violate the First Amendment. Presumably, the signholder thought that this was somehow relevant.

Thanks, Jeff. The pictures and video are great.

It is hard to know which is worse, the display of the Nazi flag in San Francisco with no protest; Christians and Moslems protesting the gay liberation movement (previous pictures had Moslems, with women with bound heads), or gay people opposing these fascists with the equally fascist and simply unmusical "Star-Spangled Banner." On the song-fest, see the SF Chronicle, 2/21/04 at http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/02/21/national0413EST0437.DTL,
with this nauseating paragraph:
"About 25 anti-gay-marriage protesters later blocked the door of the county clerk's office, lying down in front of the line and singing religious songs. Gays and lesbians responded by belting out "The Star-Spangled Banner" until sheriff's deputies escorted the protesters out. No arrests were made"

We all should certainly support the civil right of gay people to marry and all the rest of the demands of the gay liberation movement, but we should also be aware that marriage in a capitalist society is not just a legal contract but a property relationship which is why most of the people getting married, whether heterosexual or homosexual, are property owners or soon-to-be property owners. Since there is now no stigma attached to living with a sexual partner without being married, there is no legal benefit to workingclass tenants to be married which is why the marriage rate among the workingclass is low.

This patriotic belching on the part of some gay couples proves, of course, that the gay community is divided by class as any other identity, such as women, non-whites and the like. The primary issue is class, and it is on that basis that we can and must move forward.

That so much religion, also known as superstition, is being displayed in a supposedly advanced country is a sign of how very backward and uneducated this country is and how much contempt for and ignorance of science continues to pollute the political atmosphere. Gay marriage already exists in some European countries; this is not a novelty at all. It is in these same countries that labor is stronger.

Listen, guy, you're not going to win over gay people to your way of thinking about marriage by criticizing gay couples who are--for the first time in American history--standing in line to legally wed, and who, faced with obstructionist Christianazis blocking the doorways of equality, sing a song to keep spirits high.

Everyone seems to be dumping on gay newlyweds these days--Barbara Boxer, Barney Frank, Bush, Schwarzenegger--and you. You don't have to sing with us if you don't want to, but know that your criticism is going to fall on deaf ears.

I was there and I think they were right for doing what they did. It's San Francisco anyway so people should have the right to protest for what they do and do not believe in. Nazi or no Nazi, young or old, for or against, it's great that they did what they did, and stood for what they believed in.

Apparently the civil rights songs are unknown to the gays standing in line to be married, or formerly standing in line . Thanks to the Nazi terrorists, there will be no more line and marriages are now by appointment only in San Francisco.

Those of us who walked the picket lines right here in San Francisco in the 1960s, on auto row on Van Ness, a few blocks from City Hall, demanding blacks be hired as salespeople, as well as janitors, a demand which we won, remember the following songs, which originally were labor songs from the 1930s and 1940s. The gay civil rights movement is a direct outgrowth of the civil rights and peace movements of the 1950s and 1960s, which was in turn a product of the labor movemnnet of the 1930s and 1940s, and all of us who support civil rights and labor certainly do support gay marriage. We just do not support fascist anthems and outright Nazis.

As to Nazis, they are proven, open murderers and thus have no rights whatsoever. Free speech does not exist in a vacuum. Not only does no one have a right to FALSELY yell fire in a crowded theater, no one who has a record of murder and other heinous crimes can claim the right of free speech to continue perpetrating those heinous crimes.

This writer staunchly supports gay liberation and gay marriage. It is fascist anthems and Nazis that this writer does not support, and no decent person does. If you think fascist anthems and Nazis are all right or that Nazis have any rights, then you obviously do not think at all.

Many thanks to another veteran of the civil rights era for his adaptation of these songs for the gay liberation movement at:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/02/1670973.php
AIN'T GONNA LET NOBODY TURN ME AROUND

Ain't gonna let nobody turn me around
Turn me around
Turn me around
Ain't gonna let nobody turn me around--
Gonna keep on a-standin', keep on demandin',
Movin' into freedom-land.

(2) Ain't gonna let no bigots turn me around.....

(3) Ain't gonna let George Dub-ya turn me around.....

(4) Ain't gonna let no fasc-ists turn me around......

(... then back to first verse)

.......................................................................

HOLD ON (Keep Your Eyes On The Prize)

Freedom's name is mighty sweet,
Queer and straight are gonna meet.
Keep your eyes on the prize, hold on.
Hold on, hold on.
Keep your eyes on the prize, hold on.


(2) The only thing that we did wrong,
Was stay in second-class too long.......

(3) There is one chain that all can stand,
That's the chain of hand in hand.......

(4) We've fought hate and bigots too,
And our love has seen us thru........

(5) Got our hands on the freedom plough,
Ain't no bigots gonna stop us now......

(...then back to first verse)
...............................................

No, it's not good when people stand up for what they believe in, no matter what it is that they believe? They sure are lucky they're in San Francisco. In germany, it's illegal to fly or paint a swastika or certain violent communist symbols, and you can be put in jail for it.

Germany, the country from which my mother fled the Nazis as Jewish refugee from the Holocaust, is far more advanced than the backward United States because labor is more advanced.

In Germany, as of August 1, 2001, gay couples are officially "Partners for Life," joining France and 4 Scandinavian countries in providing legal status to same-sex couples. Gay marriage was legalized in Holland in 2001 and in some Canadian provinces in 2003. The story on Germany by Steve Kettmann may be found in the 8/2/01 SF Chronicle at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/08/02/MN5019.DTL

German labor won national health care, Social Security and unemployment insurance in the 1870s, under Bismarck. Americans won Social Security and unemployment insurance in 1935, after the general strikes of 1934 in San Francisco, Minneapolis and Toledo. We still, in the 21st Century, do not have a national healthcare system, paid for with our tax dollars, guaranteeing healthcare to all who live here from cradle to grave.

Germany is right, and certainly has good cause, to ban the swastika and the Nazi flag. Organizations like the Nazis whose open purpose is to perpetrate genocide certainly can have no rights. Germany is a capitalist country and may or may not ban communist symbols which is not good; this is the first I have heard of this. There are certainly open communist organizations on the ballot and since Germany's election system, like most of the rest of Europe, is far more democratic than the Amercian system, the communist organizations and many others win seats if they have at least 5% of the vote. The American winner-take-all system is viciously anti-democratic, and demonstates the hypocrisy of anti-Communist, anti-labor USA, just as anti-Communist as all capitalist countries are and were, including Nazi Germany, which was first and foremost anti-Communist.

I suggest the defenders of the Nazis on this website do some reading. You clearly know nothing about our American history, much less world history, or even the advances made in the gay liberation movement. Germany has a much longer history of a strong gay liberation movement, temporarily thwarted by the Nazis, and now far more advanced than the American gay liberation movement.

It is of course no accident that Nazis are openly defended in the US; the US is the proud heir of the politics of Nazi Germany and in fact imported as many Nazis as it could at the end of WW2 to (a) save them from the Soviet Union which despised the Nazis for among other things murdering 20 million Soviet citizens as the Nazis, like the US, were first and foremost anti-Communist (and this has nothing to do with the counter-revolutionary politics of Stalin), and (b) assist the US in building its military-police state complex so as to better exploit labor, maximization of profit being the primary law of capitalism.

We are seeing the gay liberation struggle advance in a similar pattern as the women's suffrage movement. In the countries where labor is stronger, women first won the right to vote. It took the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 which made possible women's suffrage in the Soviet Union, for American women to finally win our "century of struggle" for our right to vote on August 26, 1920. After all, if the Reds guaranteed women's suffrage, capitalist USA had to grant that much concession to what was also a middle class civil rights movment. Thus, it was labor's revolution that guaranteed middle class civil rights victories. When labor advances, we all advance.

First off, the current wave of marriages isn't some tv show that you should stage-manage with the "correct" songs and--no doubt--the "correct" motives. If all you have to offer is an argument for why couples should sing your songs, then you're pissing in the wind. Nobody in those lines at City Hall gives a damn about you. Why? Because this isn't about you. This isn't about your songs. Get it? It's not about *you*.

Second, this is about as conservative a goal as one could imagine, but--due to widespread and pervasive anti-gay discrimination at all levels of government in every region of America--even getting married is seen as a radical rebellion. If gays are doing it, that is. Those who seek to get married probably don't see themselves as radicals who should sing old communist worksongs when the Christianazis show up.

Third, if there were a lot of support from people such as yourself--if people such as yourself, with your old battle memories and your old songs and such--were actually *present* in City Hall when the Christianazis showed up--then you could have tried to lead the crowds to sing your songs.

But that didn't happen, did it?

No. And do you know why? Because your cadre of old-school activists weren't there to support us and lead us in your finest worksongs. You talk the talk, boy, but you sure don't walk the walk. We'll sing whatever we want to sing, and you can rail on about how incorrect we are--from the sidelines.

Baby girl Mary, we were and are there. These songs were passed out and sung by veterans of the civil rights movement, none of whom would have been so stupid as to sing the fascist anthem, which is not really music anyhow.

If you had read the link of these civil rights (not communist) songs, at http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/02/1670973.php, you would know that these songs were sung and passed out for others to learn.

If you had read the other postings on this website, you would know that lots of veterans of the various movements were there, as spectators and as gay couples getting married, the oldest of whom were the famous Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon, in their 70s and 80s, who were the first in this gay marriage demonstration, and who happen to be proud, conservative Democrats. There were lots of others of all political ideologies and of all ages.

Further, if you read anything else, whether it is the gay press or other websites, you would know all this as well.

Further, baby girl Mary, if you had read the articles, you would know not to refer to a woman as "boy" and "guy." what garbage school did you go to that you do not even read what you claim to oppose? Are you actually one of the Nazis claiming free speech?

It is you who are self-centered, baby girl Mary "Mee." You seem to think this gay marriage ceremony just happened. In fact, it did not occur without all of the hundreds of veterans who volunteered over Presidents' Day weekend, and who are among those getting married.

Keep your stinking anti-Communism, your ignorance and your self-centeredness to your self, Baby Girl Mary "Mee" and read much more. You have a lot to learn, and your Nazi friends should be told to get off this site.

As soon as the courts stop the same-sex marriages in San Francisco a candle light demonstration will begin at the Civic Center. All are encouraged to attend this equal rights issue of our time.