Washington Post Smears Dead Man To Justify Police Brutality in Cincinnati

What are they?

Diane Payton is consoled by her husband, Jeff Payton, during a news conference, Wednesday, Dec. 3, 2003, in Cincinnati. Payton is an aunt of Nathaniel Jones, who died in police custody Sunday morning in Cincinnati. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)

Betsy Jones wipes a tear during a news conference, Wednesday, Dec. 3, 2003, in Cincinnati, in the office of attorney Ken Lawson, right. Jones is the grandmother of Nathaniel Jones, who died in police custody Sunday morning in Cincinnati. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)

It's pretty simple, when the cops tell you to stop fighting, just stop. If he had done that he may not have over worked his heart thus killing kimself. It's common sense people......

He didn't "overwork his heart." He was beaten to death by brutal, savage thugs *after* he had stopped fighting.

He posts to anything involving cops and tries to protect them, no matter how absurd.

He's defending guys who beat an unconscious man to death. More vile scum than that are really hard to imagine.

How many times are cops going to get away with beating and killing black people? I am a white 20 year old and I think these killings by officers without prosecution or punishment show the morals of our government. Prevent racism, don't support it. The government needs to obey their own laws.

the video does not show the man unconscious. you people are making stuff up. i have a suggestion...snort a bunch of cocaine, smoke some pcp and then get into a brawl....then we'll see if your heart explodes like this guys did. by the way the coroner said the fight caused him to have a heart attack..and that he had only superficial wounds from the baton strikes. this aint rodney king. the man is dead because he was fat and used way too many drugs.

shame on you who are adding your own insight to this tragedy. there is nothing on the video tape that shows the police beating that man while he was unconscious. have you ever tried to handcuff a 400lb. man who is resisting arrest? i doubt it.

and the coroner isn't lying, so what? Being high is not a capital offense. Neither is assaulting an officer. This man did not deserve to be executed, let alone summarily, on the spot. If you and I did to this man what the cops did, we’d be tried for murder. This man was murdered by a pack of brutal, vicious, out of control goons. In a just world, they would get exactly what they gave him. At the very least, they should stand trial for what they did. If you want to live in a country where the police are free to summarily execute people whenever they feel like it, go to North Korea. This is America. Summary executions are not the American way.

Sometimes the Cincinnati TV station server (WCPO.com) with the raw video is not working that well. The video is jerky at times, and the sound is bad too at times. This is probably due to it getting so many hits at times.

Another copy of the same complete police cruiser video is posted at San Francisco Indymedia. Just click the link below. Make sure your browser is at medium security or less.
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/01_whitecastle_rawcruiser.ram

It uses RealPlayer, a free video player available from:
http://www.real.com

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There is a long period after they realize he has a pulse but is not breathing in which mouth-to-mouth resuscitation is not given. I am not sure if he ever got that.

And in any case there is only a window of MINUTES to give it. The cops did not give it for a long time if at all.

They are trained in it. They would have instantly done it for one of their own.

The last person to die in police custody in Cincinnati, Roger Owensby, in November 2000, died the SAME WAY as Nathaniel Jones. From asphyxiation during arrest, and no timely CPR.

What better way to asphyxiate a 350 pound man than to tackle him to the ground head first, and then add another 300 or 400 pounds of 2 cops kneeling on him and almost pulling his arms out of their sockets to pull them back and closer together in order to handcuff him. They had to use 3 handcuffs linked together because he was so overweight! Think of the 600 to 800 pounds of pressure all concentrated on his lungs that way. No wonder he stopped breathing.

One method of execution, torture, or interrogation in colonial days was piling stones on top of someone (or a door on top of them, etc.) until they stopped breathing!

Spray enough teargas into someone's face and they are no real danger to anybody even if allowed to run around. They can't see! This is better than suffocating and killing the suspect.

Breaking news. Cincinnati police may all be getting tasers.

How will beating someone supposedly on drugs or mentally ill cause them to calm down or obey commands? And what if they can't obey the command due to being unable to put their arms all the way back as in the case of an overweight man?

Cops carry teargas. Some cops have Tasers. Every cop should carry Tasers. They can't be more dangerous than beating someone senseless with a CLUB or LEAD PIPE or BASEBALL BAT or METAL POLICE BATON.

And how many more decades and lives lost will it take to realize this? Not dealing with this is racist. Racism through inaction. Because it seems that it is almost always black men and not white men who are dying.

The teargas should have been used earlier. A taser that one pushes into someone would have been a lot easier than the beating, the teargas, etc.. And a lot less dangerous to all involved.

Teargas and tasers are often on quickdraw belt clips usually. Lots of citizens have both. Mailmen could have done a better job than the cops. Vicious dogs are often stopped by mailmen with simple pepper spray. And pepper spray in a high enough concentration will stop someone on drugs, too.

Some links:

http://www.google.com/search?q=safe+taser+arrest+police

http://news.google.com/news?q=safe+taser+arrest+police

'Stunning' progress
icBirmingham, UK - Nov 23, 2003
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/content_objectid=13654091_method=full_siteid=50002_headline=--Stunning--progress-name_page.html
... success because cops were able to arrest ... they could be installed in EVERY police ... medical
review of the US-manufactured Taser ... that anything is 100 per cent safe ...

Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | Police launch stun gun ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,938739,00.html
... and technology, and they feel it is safe for us ... Manufactured by Arizona-based company
Taser International, the gun ... stun suspects so that they can be arrested. ...

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The video can also be seen here:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/12/02/whitecastle_lessons.html

In the right column is a link for the raw video.

It seems the Cincinnati Police haven't learned a thing since the death of Roger Owensby in November 2000. A guy resists arrest, and once they have him on the ground they pile on until the guy suffocates. And then they do not provide timely mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. In both cases they knew the suspect was not breathing.

Cincinnati Post. October 24, 2001. Court testimony (by a cop!) on Roger Owensby death by asphyxiation, and lack of timely CPR.
http://www.cincypost.com/2001/oct/24/jorg2102401.html

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Choke holds like the one used on Roger Owensby have been outlawed by many police departments. Piling on and kidney jabs should be outlawed for the same reason. They are deadly. Kidney punches are outlawed in boxing. Multiple rapid-fire full-force jabs with a metal baton are far more dangerous than a boxing glove kidney punch. And no time is allowed this way for a suspect to comply.

I took a look at the video and do not think this is murder. The guy is dead no doubt but murder is by definition, pre-meditated. The most "progressives" can hope for in this case is manslaughter and its doubtful they will get that.

Chances are the officers will be excused of any wrong-doing and rightly so. The suspect was on PCP and coke and resisting arrest. The police should be able to use non-lethal force to make a suspect comply including batons, pepper spray, tear gas, tasers, etc.

And for the record, I am positive if the cops would have used a taser which resulted in a drug-induced heart attack and death, the indymedia types would be decrying that as "murder" as well. The bottom line is most of these people hate the police and will always protest against any legitimate police action.

If they spent *any* time in the hood, they would know that we want more police and more enforcement of laws in our communities, NOT LESS!

There are both Windows Media Player and RealPlayer versions of the full video at the link below. At lower and higher bitrates.
http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/2676849/detail.html

I guess you didn't read the sign the man was carrying dumbass, "Oakland Resident." He obviously doesn't want any more white cops in his neighborhood. And by the way lots of us have lived in the "hood."

And homicide is murder. And the coroner called it a homicide. Stop playing dumbass word games.

This is one of the stupidest things ever written:

"The police should be able to use non-lethal force to make a suspect comply including batons, pepper spray, tear gas, tasers, etc."

What they did was obviously lethal.

And the police have lots of rules in how they use those rules. Many of which were broken in this killing, murder, homicide, snuffing out, execution, revenge hit, death squad activity.

And you didn't read the safe taser links, either, O braindead one. Maybe someone should slap some sense into you. Since you seem to enjoy beatings.

You are so predictable. Someone posts a view you disagree with and so, on with the ad-hominem attacks. My first comment had nothing to do with "dumbass word games" but legality. Something you clearly care nothing about. All that matters to you are your feelings. Your feelings were hurt by this video, so the cops must have been acting in an evil manner. A simple view of the world for a simpleton like yourself.

The cops did not use lethal force. They used force but it was far from lethal. Were they beating him in the head? Did they shoot him? Of course not. The blows were clearly to the body. In the end, the man died because he was overweight and on dope not due to the brutality of the police officers.

No, I do not enjoy beatings, but I have gotten in a few fights in my life. People I know--friends and enemies--have been on the receiving end of worse beatings than this and none of them died. Man, look at Rodney King. He was beaten down a lot worse than this and he recovered fine.

You are clearly an upper-class child of priviledge who has never spent a day in the neighborhoods you love to glorify. Those of us who grew up poor want more police protection, not less. We want the police to bust the ho's, johns, and drug dealers in our neighborhoods just as they do in Piedmont.

Photo is from this ABC News article:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20031207_948.html#photocap

photo credit and caption: Bessie Jones, center, grandmother of Nathaniel Jones, releases a dove with Tyriq Holley, far left, son of Nathaniel Jones, and his brother Nathaniel Jones Jr., right, after a memorial service for Nathaniel Jones at the Allen Temple Worship Center, Saturday, Dec. 6, 2003, in Cincinnati. Jones died in police custody Sunday. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)

Latest News: Cincinnati cops may all get Tasers, stun guns.
http://news.google.com/news?q=cincinnati+tasers+stun+guns

Of course the cops will still need to learn not to leave a suspect on his chest, especially after teargassing or stunning him. It is well documented that this has often suffocated arrestees. And the cops need to USE their CPR training, and give non-breathing arrestees immediate, timely, mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. Or go to jail for negligent homicide.

How come, no matter the new procedures laid down regularly, that cops find a way to "follow the procedure" but still allow the suspect to die. Especially black ones.

Always seems to be some new exception to the procedures. Such as the "fat black crack user" exception.

There are thousands of drunk and disorderlies every year in this region, and I am sure many of them have resisted arrest, and taken a swing at the cops, but they seem to live. What's up with that?

Put your cigarettes and coffee down, shake off that hangover from last night, and answer me that. ;)

Another thing. The cops may not have updated their teargas to a high enough concentration of pepper gas to be effective against someone who is high.

Mailmen probably have better pepper spray than the cops. It is like cops are so poorly trained and equiped that they always "have" to resort to what they enjoy most: beating black suspects.

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Oakland Resident. It is amazing how you completely ignore what someone writes. Then go ahead and make a complete fool of yourself in your reply.

Go back and read the many previous comments about the many lethal means used in this arrest, such as full-force kidney and rib jabs, suffocating piling on, and arm pulling back that contributed even more asphyxiating pressure on the lungs. Along with fluid in the lungs due to teargas.

It is not an ad hominem attack to call someone a moron who doesn't bother to comprehend the comment he is replying to. You ARE a moron. And "More video" HAS lived in the "hood." Read his comment again.

Are you kidding,

"There are thousands of drunk and disorderlies every year in this region, and I am sure many of them have resisted arrest, and taken a swing at the cops, but they seem to live. What's up with that?"

As a matter of fact , hundreds of those people die in custody every year. And yes many of them resisted arrest. Why did they die? beacuse of their poor health and drug use. So why don'y you rally around all those deaths? If you don't believe me go check the facts, you will be suprised.......

They were murdered in cold blood by ruthless, brutal, savage thugs.

"Oakland Resident" is Johnny-one-note jack-ass. Everytime he comes on this forum he accuses those who criticize the cops of being rich kids who don't understand the hood. He presumes to speak for everyone in poor neighborhoods--according to him, they're all horny for more cops and don't have any complaints about police brutality other than that there isn't enough of it.

Listen, you pile of shit, there's a lot of us on here who know what it's like to live in capital's waste-land neighborhoods. We know your depiction of peoples' attitudes about the police in those places isn't the full story. In fact, it's mostly horse-shit.

Like "John Q. Public"--who we know is a cop--"Oakland Resident" chimes in only on police related stories. Makes me think he's a pig.

Yes I am a cop and I love it. I can't think of a better job for 105k a year. I don't enjoy using force but I know it is necessary because all you cry babies will never step up to the plate and do your civic duty. How does it feel to stand back and watch an old lady get her assed kicked? Something I could never do, I guess that is what seperates me from you.

Yes I am a cop and I love it. I can't think of a better job for 105k a year. I don't enjoy using force but I know it is necessary because all you cry babies will never step up to the plate and do your civic duty. How does it feel to stand back and watch an old lady get her assed kicked? Something I could never do, I guess that is what seperates me from you.

John Q. Public. As a cop (as one of my relatives was) you should know you are lying when you say that the public will stand around while a woman is robbed. I personally helped catch a robber who beat a woman and took her purse.

And as for drunks dying in custody, they die from the drinking. Nick Nolte, the actor, recently kicked a cop when he was drunk and being arrested.

And he lived. But, of course, he is white.

"Makes me think he's a pig."

You know what they say, when you want to know who is a "pig", look at who is pointing the finger and yelling "Cop! Cop!"

That be you Aaron.

I comment on issues relating to public safety and the police because I actually know what I am writing about first-hand. I do not need to attend a "Cop Watch" meeting or read an imc article to know what is going down in the hood, I live it every day of my life. People like you need to come down from your ivory tower life of privledge, ditch the trust fund and then I'll take what you write semi-seriously. Until then, you are just another elitist who feels it is his job to tell the working class what to do and how to live our lives. Well I've got news for you, we are sick and tired of your played-out drivel and are acting (and voting) accordingly.

Why are all my posts being deleted? Scared of the truth?

Hmmm......