Peter Camejo=Republican stooge

The only way the Democratic party will stop shifting to the RIGHT is to lose some races to candidates that are shifted to the LEFT.

The Greens offer this, the Democrats DO NOT.

What you consider a left Democrat is someone who has pledged to support a party which offers:

- Pro-war presidential candidates
- Never to TOUCH money in elections
- Supporting the 'voting reform' that has now rigged out elections with 'high risk' voting machines that cost millions, and no oversight.
- No support for IRV, which is closer to democracy.
- A history of bombing when the news is catching on to scandals - the Greens support non-violence
- Spineless non-functioning of congressional members - remember, to our embarrassment, our OWN CALIFORNIA CONGRESSWOMAN Diane Frankenstein voted FOR WAR!
- Voting IN of the PATRIOT ACT
- Confirmation of JOHN ASSCROFT
- Huge prison growth
- Continued death penalty

and on and on and on . . . .

My GOD - you have the NERVE to condemn a wonderful person like Peter Camejo?

Give me a break.

If you are using the term "spoiler" you have already shown you have no clue of what a Democracy is even about. All parties have the right to run candidates and to FUNCTION as parties.

The Greens do not exist to 'save' the Democrats every time they have sold-out to the center and the right.

The Greens exist because many many people are fed up with the Democrats and see no hope for working within them.

Peter is a hero.

If the election goes the way the polls predict (and its possible it wont), not only well Arnold win but the Republicans will come away with over 60% of the vote (43%+ for Arnold 18% for McClintock).

The message this election is going to give to the Democratic party is "move to the right".

Its great to talk about voting for a third party pushing the Democrats to the left, but that only works when the Left has clout. Why do 60%+ of people polled favor Republicans over the Democrats or the Greens?

I dont have a solution but it seems like many people on the Left live in a fantasy world. If we keep acting on our concious and not caring about results we will soon have Arnold as governor, Bush reelected President, and Newsom as mayor of SF.

Its great to say all politicans are the same, but try telling that to homeless people who will be effected by Newsom or a Syrian who will face a new war in Bush's second term.

Thank you. Camejo and the Greens bare responsibility for this recall as well. He was under the pie in the sky illusion that there would be some great progressive wave that would sweep California, and it would be the best chance to get greens elected.

He was part of the signature drive and urged people to vote yes on the recall.

In "Notes of a Dirty Old Man", a collection of essays and rants by Charles Bukowski, he makes a key point. Being given a choice between eating warm shit or cold shit doesn't change the essential fact that you're eating shit.

That said, I'm proud to have voted Green.

For pie in the sky illusions, try 'democracy.'

Equating only-running-if-you-can-beat-the-Republicrats as the only thing that ISN'T 'pie in the sky', would mean that no third party could ever run.

Check your history - third parties don't drop from the sky fully formed. They are created by the work of individuals and grow gradually.

These concerns and attacks suggest that people who are essentially centrist and apologists are feeling threatened by the Greens - this is a good thing. It will only be short matter of time before the spinelessness of the Democrats destroys them, and anyone left of NAFTA Bill Clinton will be looking for someplace else to go.

Meanwhile, the fascist Republicans will be running dirty tricks campaigns until they blow up in their faces like Watergate and now, Iraqgate. THey have most likely already infiltrated the Democrats, which may be why the DLC is so out of whack with it's own party.

There will always be a homeless person in SF and someone in Syria about to be bombed - the question is, do you want that to go on for decades, perhaps centuries, or to shake up the system we have now in order to change it?

I don't know where you get the 60% figure.

1) you should provide a link
2) check the recent polls - numbers are flying in all directions and they change based on WHICH GROUP you are talking about - i.e., actual voters vs possible voters vs probable voters, etc.
3) CA is extremely liberal on a lot of issues - that makes no sense with a 60% figure, so I would imagine you are mistaken. Do repubs want civil unions, abortion rights, undocumented immigrant drivers licenses, medical marijuana, etc.? THey would easily trounce these if they were really at 60%.

getting out his liberal/left Halloween costume.

In 2000, Nader was subjected to the same kinds of attacks from people who purported to be liberals and leftists concerning about the environment, affordable housing and peace issues.

But, if you looked at their records carefully, you'd discover that they were just moderate Democrats who supported everything Bill Clinton ever did.

Just like now, people like Howard Dean support the occupation until the Iraqis decide to govern themselves in a way acceptable to us, Wesley Clark glorifies the war in April and criticizes it in September and Joseph Lieberman, Richard Gephardt and Nancy Pelosi would support any Bush military attack upon an Arab country and any Israeli action after a suicide bombing, with the possible exception of an air-raid upon the Mission District.

While domestically, they support the Patriot Act, "three strikes" and, invariably, the next war in Iran or Syria.

The only reason these phonies complain is that when they are in power, they are free to crack down on the left (as they did in Seattle), but when they are out of power, the Republicans are free to crack down on the left AND the Democratic Party.

A classic example: Clinton/Gore appointees to the Pacifica Board tried to destroy KPFA and the Pacifica network, but now Democrats are terrified that the Republicans are going to consolidate mainstream media and exclude them as well.

If you watch these people carefully, they never respond to people like Nader and Camejo on the issues, because they can't, they don't want you to know that they are really more responsive to corporate donors than the populace. So, they just launch this kind of attack.

I am so tired of the ugly attacks on the Greens for *everything* but the kithchen sink. Why aren't the Democrats reaching out and trying to work WITH the Greens instead of constantly insulting them and blaming them for everything under the sun? The Green party has viturally no money, gets precious little attention from the media, shunned in the debates, but is somehow resposible for the collapse of our entire country. Come on.

Thanks Greens. you will suck the left out of the Dems. the foolish Dems will try to run left to cover, and the Republicans will pick up all the center voters. Sounds great to this Republican!

Tom McClintock is polling better than the Greens this time so there is the real possibility that McClintock may decide the election in Bustamante's favor.

While Nader was blamed for Bush he got a very small percentage of the vote in the 2000 election. Ross Perot did get a good percentage in the election when Bush Sr ran against Clinton. Perot had a huge impact on that election and it is likely that Clinton would not have gotten elected if it hadnt been for Perot.

Majority voting without runoffs doesnt work with more than two parties. Someday there may actually be runoff elections in state and federal races, but until then the 3rd party option will make the more extreme groups on the political spectrum the losers.

It's hard to manage why the anonymous Israel-lover chose to post an anti-anti-Zionist rant to this thread. Before that, there was only one passing mention of Israel that only hinted at how tight the Democrats are with the Zionists, and how dependent they are on (mostly Jewish) Zionist money.

I hate the Democrats and I hate the Zionists, but I would hate the Democrats even if Israel never existed. What they did to Korea and VIetnam, to cite the most egregious examples, makes them war criminals in the same league as the Republicans. I've been eligible to vote since 1962, and have voted in most elections since 1975, but have never voted for a candidate who had 'Democrat' or 'Republican' next to their name.

In this election I voted for Joel Britton of the SWP because he was the only candidate I could find who attacked capitalism and imperialism in his ballot statement. Incidentally, I voted against the recall, since I regarded it as a Republican move to remove Davis for the wrong reasons. (I can't imagine the Republicans wanting to remove him for the right reasons!)

canfora stated that on the cal s.w.p. website that they called for a vote for camejo . absolutely not. they called for a vote for their comrade , joel britton . why would canfora flat out lie about that ?

45% opposed the recall, and 47% voted for schwarzenegger. That means that lots of Davis fans like Arnold. If this had been a republican mandate they would have voted for McClintock, who is twice as smart. The republicans don't like Arnold, and real republicans can't get elected in this state except Fresno. Davis is pretty much a republican in his law-and-order positions and left liberals don't like him, and even more had a protest vote for Camejo during the last election than this one because of that.
Schwarzenegger wants to be loved. He will only be able to do things that make us hate him. Jesse Ventura is a lot smarter, and he became very unloved after a couple years, and he didn't even have the flaws Schwarzenegger does. Arnold won't last 3 years.

Check out the election results. Camejo got 2% of the vote.
He in no way changed the outcome of the election.

Know the facts. See the link:

http://vote2003.ss.ca.gov/Returns/summary.html