Google News Bans SF Bay Area Indymedia Over Israel/Palestine Controversy

"Zionazi" is considered "hate-speech" but this:
(http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=2697) is not. Since when is "the enemy is a cancer and transfer is the answer" not hate speech?

Arutz Sheva is perhaps the most right-wing, fascist "news outlets" from Israel, with close ties to Kahane Chai and the other Jewish terrorist cells.

This action by Google doesn't surprise me. A friend of mine told me long before this happened that Google's technology was developed in Israel and the founder is an ardent Zionist.

Can someone who has any evidence speak to this?

Before any response to this is reminiscent (sp/) of the treatment Helen Caldicott received one morning on Good Morning America where she was to be a guest. The worlds most qualified and visible spokesmen for Physicians For Nuclear Responsibility, a lot of doctors all over the world, and the anti-nuke movement of the time. Fifteen minutes before the interview she was told the they had cancelled because the network "no longer thought she had credibility." The question is not whether the people in the audience believe you but whether the people who control your access to the audience believe you. Question one: How much does it matter to IMC to be on the Google shit list? If it matters enough how much time and energy do you want to expend getting off it? And then what can be done to achieve that without making the situation worse? And lastly, how can you win and THEN have the battle? Let's pontificate before we defecate. Could Google be out of the loop now? Replace their effect.

> This action by Google doesn't surprise me. A friend
> of mine told me long before this happened that
> Google's technology was developed in Israel and
> the founder is an ardent Zionist.

As is the technology for flat screen TVs and computer screens, voice mail, text messaging, and so much more. With Israel having the largest number of engineers per capita and the largest number of patent holders per capita, virtually anything that you use in the technology field will have had Israeli input. I would doubt that the nationality of a programmer had anything to do with Google's decision.

In fact, it would not surprise me in the least if programming for IMC was developed in Israel and we are reading this courtesy of Israeli hardware and Israeli computer protocols.

is a Zionist by definition. Zionism is racism. Like its predecessor Nazism before it, it is the belief that control of a particular piece of real estate should be determined on the basis of lineage. That's racist by definition. Ergo, anyone who supports Israel's existence is a racist.

I wonder if there is any work being done on an alternative to google that doesn't give preference to people who pay to have their info returned in search results.

When Google receives hundreds of letters or phone calls in an organized campaign to extinguish free speech (as far as criticism of Israel is concerned), they (as many others) cave in to the pressure.

See this letter writing campaign to the International Herald Tribune as an example:
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1865.shtml

When Israel's supporters write or call, distressing over "Israel being singled out," not too many people take it seriously here. But what many people don't realize is that plenty of people in the media and government (congress) take these charges very seriously and things that are seen as totally laughable and ludicrous here are mulled over with all seriousness.

What is interesting in all this is that truly anti-Semitic sites are left alone. Those who complain about anti-Semitism on the left (which is almost always legitimate criticism of Israel) are censored but real right wing anti-Semitism is not. I think that is because Zionists are in favor of this stuff showing up because it makes them look like the victims. Otherwise, you'd expect to see the same sort of censorship against them due to letter writing campaigns -- but that doesn't seem to be the case. Instead, truly legitimate information has been and is being hidden.

I've noticed something else about Google's censorship as well. Some articles I have posted here had links to other articles I had located through Google at an earlier point. Not only was I not able to find the SF Indy articles using Google, but the articles to which they linked (which I originally found through Google) could not be located by Google no matter what you searched on!

I suspect Google has an actual exlusion list which prevents specific pages (URLs) from being displayed in the results. I'm also guessing that the ADL or JDL or CAMERA or whoever is responsible for this campaign of censorship, sent Google a list of URLs to be excluded from their search results.

Here is just one of the articles I am talking about:
http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles14.htm

No matter what you try, you will not be able to get this specific page to appear in Google's results. And this is a page I had originally found through Google. The SF Indy article that pointed to it (which I posted here around 6 months ago) is also not showing up in Google's results.

This is worse than simply removing SF Indy from Google's index. What this means is that very important information on Israel is beginning to slowly disappear from search engines like Google even though the real anti-Semitic sites still come up. This is disturbing because at this point, you no longer no what you are being prevented from seeing.

Also, as far as hate speech here is concerned, I suspect some of the most virulently anti-Semitic posts (especially ones which obsessively refer to "Jews") are probably planted here by Israel's supporters. They also may be employing more subtle tactics as well.

Google's total disregard for anti-Arab hatred/racism is also not surprising. Anti-Arab racism in America is so prevalent that it goes unnoticed -- like the air we breathe. It's only when you replace the words "Arabs" or "Muslims" with the word "Jews" that you would even notice how racist some of the most mainstream commentaries/editorials really are.

The Founder of Google is a Russian immigrant, and all of people Sergey should be most sensitive to censorship and respect American's right to free expression.

This censorship needs to be exposed, because if they do this, what else is Google doing which violates America's right to freedom of speech.

the question isn't one of credibility.

Google doesn't purport to be screening articles and news services from the standpoint of accuracy, there's no way they could do so, and, if they did, they'd find themselves eliminating access to articles by people like Judith Miller of the NYT, who has hyped a non-existent WMD threat for the last several years

instead, the question is one of "hate speech", and whether it will provide access to sites that criticize Israel, often with inflammatory language, if they allow a message board format, just as it provides access to sites that criticize Arabs, with equally inflammatory langauge

typically, use of terms like "ragheads" is acceptable, while "Zionazis" is not, which is one reason I've never supported the idea of "hate speech" codes in the first place

You can't sue a private individual for censorship unless they are acting as government employees. Only a government website isn't allowed to censor - with the exceptions being that people under 18 have no free speech rights - so schools may censor, and slander, libel and some inflammatory speech is not considered protected under the first amendment.

this doesn't mean that people shouldn't criticize google for the listed reasons above. People shouldn't be unethical just because the law doesn't require them to be.

Google is a private website like indymedia. I think if the U.S. government were to hire google, then google would have to follow the constitution to some extent.

The real problem here is not Google News. Google News is part of the bourgeois capitalist mainstream media. When i use it, and i've been known to, i don't exepct it to say anymuch more than Fox News, CNN or the New York Times.

The real problem is Indymedia SF having an editorial policy that says they "agree [that] "zionazi" could be considered hate speech". If this is really the policy of the editorial board it is wrong-headed and dangerous. Saying that supporters of the racist apartheid state act like or are nazis is legitimate political rhetoric (one that i generally don't use--I would rather say racist and apartheid, but that's style). And one can not deny that Meir Kahane or Irv Rubin were not Zionists and Fascists, and that many parts of mainstream Zionism collaborated with the Nazis. There have also been Islamo-fascists as well, so i don't think that's "hate speech" either. I think using "Kike" or "Raghead" is definitely "hate speech". I think equating all Jews with the racist apartheid state of Israel and the racist Zionist movement borders on it as well. We should not put down extremist statements just because they are extreme, just to get in good with bourgeois media like Google News (and of courrse they should be called for using "raghead"). The radical debate is one reason i like Indymedia.

The real problem here is not Google News. Google News is part of what I term the bourgeois capitalist mainstream media. When i use it, and i've been known to, i don't exepct it to say anymuch more than Fox News, CNN or the New York Times.

The real problem is that i contend there's a problem with Indymedia SF having an editorial policy that says they "agree [that] "zionazi" could be considered hate speech". If this is really the policy of the editorial board i think it is wrong-headed and dangerous. Saying that supporters of what i consider the racist apartheid state act like or are nazis is *illegitimate* political rhetoric (one needs to study the history of ww2 and compare Israeli leaders, military, etc. to their Nazi counterparts and supporters to arrive at a conclusion that any person claiming such things is a mindless ignorant anti-Semite dumbfuck ). And one can not deny that Meir Kahane or Irv Rubin were not Zionists and Fascists, and that no parts whatsoever of mainstream Zionism collaborated with the Nazis, and that I'm an anti-Semitic fuckwit. There have also been Islamo-fascists as well, so i don't think that's "hate speech". I think using "Kike" or "Raghead" is definitely "hate speech". I think equating all Jews with what I consider the racist apartheid state of Israel and the racist Zionist movement borders on it as well. We should not put down extremist statements just because they are extreme, just to get in good with bourgeois media like Google News (and of course they should be called for using "raghead"). The radical debate, rife with virulent anti-Semitism, is one reason i like Indymedia.

"The Founder of Google is a Russian immigrant, and all of people Sergey should be most sensitive to censorship and respect American's right to free expression."

Wrong. The founder Sergey Brin is a Russian JEW who has always supported Zionism. Both of his parents were Trotskyites and remain fanatic Zionists while they push Zionism onto brainwashed children through their teaching jobs in Amerika. They strongly supported Communist censorship and worshiped Lenin.

Do you expect Google owners, it's heavily Jewish staff or its original almost all Jewish venture capitalists or the former CIA agents Google has hired as security to NOT censor and always tilt toward the Zionist entity?

Why do you think Google has never gone public? Why do you think these Jews created Google in the first place. They knew the print news media dominated by Jews was being replaced by Internet news sites which told the truth about Israel.

The only thing you can do to get away from Zionist propaganda and a Zionist controlled search engine is to move to All the Web.

The Zionist media censors everything, too.
What you IDF loving bastards are experiencing on Indymedia is just what your corporate misinformation outlets do to people everyday, just on a much larger scale.
Stop crying about censorship, you babies. Your side is just as guilty.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&q=zionazi&btnG=Search+News

Your search - zionazi - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "zionazi".

Suggestions:
- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.
Also, you can browse today's headlines on the Google News homepage.

Um, - it seems like the majority of the conservative critics here don't understand what part of sf.imc news.google would be archiving.

Have you noticed how the newswire is divided into 3 parts - local, world and other. The bottom segment of the newswire would not be searchable by google. The sf.imc people permit all the spammers and fools to basically vomit and throw mud all over the bottom section until one of them can come back after work and clean it up a little. Legitimate stories that meet the editorial guidelines (which aren't that tough - basically the articles shouldn't be reprints from mainstream news, and shouldn't contain slurs etc.) are promoted up to Local and Global.

The person up there searched for 'zionazi' and indymedia in the *regular* google search engine, not the news search engine. Go back to google and click 'news' rather than 'web', and try again. You will find zero search results.

When google originally had sf.imc as one of their news sources, they arranged to omit all the stupid comments that the freeper trolls and the bottom, unedited part of the newswire, from their web spider that archives the news.

Also, I point out that editors here have caught exactly the same person playacting a fight between 'jewish' and 'arabic' voices. The same person was taking on multiple identities and pretending to be a pro-palestinian and throwing around all sorts of slurs, then came back a minute later from the same address and was yelling back at the first character he created. Most of the ridiculous stuff you see crop up on the newswire is probably one of 5 crazy trolls tapping away from their nursing home where they have all day to devote to role playing.

Strictly speaking, censorship is a government act. SF Indymedia or Google may "censor" in a very loose sense of the word, but in reality this is basic editorial responsibility: these are private entities which are free to publish or not publish anything on their websites. Of course, readers and users of these sites are free to complain and protest on other websites (since we don't yet have government censorship controlling the entire internet..).

SF Indymedia has a Principles of Unity and editorial policy which demand that the volunteer editors uphold certain objectives of the site. If SF Indymedia did not edit its site -- hiding egregious hate speech, bogus stories, off-topic spam, etc., the site would be much less useful to everyone..

Given the pro-Israel bias and one-sided coverage in the maintream media, one might well assume that the Palestinians kill more civilians than do the Israelis; nothing could be farther from the truth.

The Israelis kill more children, more pregnant women, more old and disabled. Even if it were absolutely true that these people--whose lives are worth exactly the same as any Jew--died not as a result of having been "targeted," but because Israel just didn't give a damn, the difference would be meaningless.

SF Indymedia aims to create a participatory community news service, carry news from a noncorporate anticapitalist perspective, and "support local, regional and global struggles against exploitation and oppression". Google News aims to provide an index of practically every news source out there. These aims should be compatible.

SFIMC does not have or support a "party" line, but SFIMC could be potentially violating its own stated policies if it didn't, for example, hide a reposted editorial from the corporate press which promoted some form of oppression or exploitation. Nor can SFIMC be a haven for right-wingers to flood the comment boards -- too allow such a situation would discourage the uses for which the site is intended.

In any event you can always find your hidden posts here: http://www.indybay.org/news/?comments=yes&display=f -- I think you'll agree it's predominantly garbage, or worse.

Some recent posts have a "PAGE NOT FOUND!" error -- this is because the spammer posted faster than the system could create the article pages. We can refresh these articles if readers are interested in perusing them.

I read an article on a web log talking about some prson who had posted on indymedia some post about hating america (wishing US would be hit by nukes etc).. I went here and found that he had been banned.

Seems the system does work and at least some editors make an effort to be fair and to maintain the credibility of their position.

I have so far and I hope to continue disagreeing with indymedia regulars on a factual basis where i see fit without crossing the boundaries set out by indymedia policy. I know that other web sites would be much less accomidating.

I find it rather amusing when in the course of discussions on this site, if one is in disagreement, then one is a true blue right winger. I really don't think google is right wing, but I concur that it seeks to be level. It is apparently politically correct. Why would it be upset with the term "zionazi" if it weren't biased toward the zionist side? I do agree it is a term that connotates a
strange picture in ones' mind but it serves a purpose. So much for freedom of thought and speech.

They're honest about their feelings, they posted what they believe. If they posted without believing, that'd be dishonest.

> Do you expect Google owners, it's heavily Jewish staff or its original almost all Jewish venture capitalists or the former CIA agents Google has hired as security to NOT censor and always tilt toward the Zionist entity?

And Jerry Yang (co-founder of Yahoo) and the other Chinese and Chinese-American techies are ardent Yellowists seeking to control the world's newest medium to support the Middle Kingdom ...

or something like that.

If you don't mind, I advise you not to try and wax intellectually with that moron. S/he is only too content with propagating his/her bias and doesn't give a shit when someone points out how ridiculous it is.
Expect your comment and mine to be censored later on today, as the other comments about his/her remarks have been.

I wish it to be known that the "corrected" piece is not mine. I believe as i stated in the original piece that calling a Zionist a "Zionazi" and even calling a muslim fascist an islamofascist is legitimate political debate and is the kind of debate Indymeida should be proud to welcome. I believe that how much each particular Zionist is a fascist and should be compared to other fascists is a matter of opinion and rhrtoric style and doing so is not a hate crime. There may be times where calling Jews or all Muslims fascists or Nazis makes it an overgeneralization and therefore wrong.
I ask that people post thing in their own hanle and don't use mine. I ask that the editorial commitetee of Indymeida remove the fake post immediately. Some of you know and can confirm whihc post is the real deanosor post.

I wish it to be known that the corrected piece is mine. I don't believe anymore that calling a Zionist a "Zionazi" and even calling a muslim fascist an islamofascist is legitimate political debate and is the kind of debate Indymeida should be proud to welcome, as i stated in the original piece. I believe that how much each particular Zionist is a fascist and should fairly and contextually be compared to other fascists is a matter of opinion and rhetoric style and doing so is not a hate crime. Calling all Jews or all Muslims fascists or Nazis makes it an overgeneralization and therefore wrong.
I ask that people post things in their own hanle and don't use mine, just in case someone covets my handle. I renege on asking that the editorial committee of Indymeida remove any post of mine. Some of you know and can confirm each post is the real deanosor post.

"with the exceptions being that people under 18 have no free speech rights"

I don't know where you got this idea, but it's most certainly not true. The majority opinion of the Supreme Court in Tinker v. Des Moines (1985) started off with "It can hardly argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or the expression at the schoolhouse gate" and then it went on to explain that the school only has the ability to regulate expression when it is clearly disruptive. Go read the majority ruling, it's quite a win for students everywhere.

As for my take on "Zionazi" I believe the rhetoric to be excessive in this case. Comparing [Jewish] Zionists with Nazis is a comparison that's designed to inflame the recent memories of the Holocaust, and to invoke that kind of imagery tends to upset people and make them irrational. The comparisons between Zionism and Nazism, while not tasteful, shouldn't be considered inappropriate by anyone, but the term "Zionazi" implies far much more than that. There's nothing to gain by using it, and plenty of respect to lose.

I have a similar opinion on the word "Islamofascist." It should be noted, however, that the usage of the word "raghead" appears in a letter from a participant in the combat, which is indeed journalism. It speaks for volumes about the maturity of US soldiers.

The comparison between Nazis and Zionists is absolutely stupid and wrong and and act of antisemitism because it minimizes the Holocaust against the jews !!!! And if you now say that it's the same, then you're wrong because the meaning of holocaust is the industrial (!!!!) murder on millions of peoples and that does not happen to the Palestinians. In fact the palestinian antisemitics like Hamas etc. kill especially civilians while the israel army tries to kill only the terrorists.
Now sth. to censorship-I'm also against it, but we shouldn't allow antisemitic (and of course also anti-islamic) or racist or sexist postings on Indymedia-STOP SPREADING THIS SHIT!!!
Fight racism, capitalism & antisemitism!!! - viva l'anarchia!!!

banning SF indymedia for using the word "zionazi" is utterly stupid on google's side. when i looked, there were 1350 references for the word "zionazi" from google

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=zionazi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=de&btnG=Google+Suche&meta=">here.




in fairness, they should ban them all and not pick on poor indymedia alone.

while i concur with google that the word "zionazi" is indeed the expression of hate towards a specific ideology and those who espouse it - who if not somebody totally pissed of would stoop to using such a disparaging term - i do OTOH see more than casual connections between both ideologies:

- both ideologies are of extreme right, fascist extraction, both are in a category someimes call "blood and soil" ideologies ("lets spill their blood and take their soil").

- both zionism and national socialism ("nazism") are ideologies which profess the racial supremacy of their respective clienteles - germans or "aryans" and jews - thus claiming unlimited moral superiority when asserting their interests vis-a-vis the "others", who do simply not count and are effectively dehumanized.

- both ideologies started out as a way of vindicating the aspirations of a deeply disaffected clientele - here the jews with a long memory of victimization at the hands of their host nations, there the germans who had effectively been reduced to ruin by the war reparations imposed upon them at versailles after WW1.

- both ideologies end up professing imperialistic expansion in the name of european vs. non-europeans interests - the nazis have their well known "lebensraum" which makes it necessary to take away the lands of the "inferior" slavs to the east, the zionists have their misguided "land without people for a people without land" justifying their setlement in palestina, whose people cease to exist due to herzls criminal delusion.

- the (main) authors of both ideologies lived in vienna during the years in which they formed their political consciousness, both were immigrants from other parts of the austro-hungarian empire. hitler came from from upper austria, herzls family immigrated from budapest. both herzl and hitler moved away from vienna before their political projects came to fruition.

- the authors or main exponents of both ideologies, hitler and herzl, died "mysterious" deaths.

- both zionism and nazism were supported in their beginnings by european empires of the fin-de-siecle era: the russian and british empires, probably also the german kaiser. furthermore, the ascendancy to power was (and is) financed by the U.S.A., or more precisely by wealthy american interests probably fronting for the british empire. this is something they have in common with communism.

- etc. ...


hate is stupid.

never hate them for they are not worth it and it will lower you to their level. look at them objectively, judge them by their deeds rather than by their words.

One of your own editors (Kram) was discussing SFIMC's editorial policy on this very damn thread with me yesterday in response to my contention that it is hypocritical to condemn Google's more narrow approach to censorship in comparison to SFIMC's random approach.

Now you deleted my posts?

You're a joke. You delete posts when you don't agree with what is said. Any editor of SFIMC worth her salt should resign over this.

Just finished reading the witty repartee below. (or above, cant remember) Anyway, as i read comment after comment, i started to wonder how much energy was wasted by the computers used to post them(especially the goof who writes one paragraph and copies and pastes it ten million times) and how many hours were wasted this morning that could have been used for, shit, I dunno, say......doing something useful or productive, creative or maybe just nice, maybe using your energy to actually do something real instead of getting pissed off at other idiots who don't know anything except what their side of the media wants them to know. And who can't think of anything better to do than respond to their ignorant and hateful comments.
I wondered how much food and water and air was consumed by the concerned, passionate wannabe cicero's of the new Rome.
I contemplated the overstripped capacity of the earth to support life, and how many interesting people from other cultures starve to support the luxury wants of a culture that is addicted to a million fun ways of self destruction and bent on exporting this way of life to the rest of the world.
I also wondered how many folks got violently wasted this morning as we all dicked around over our morning coffee and indymedia (or mainstream media or whatever). The people who died in armed conflicts this morning have probably not even started to bloat or smell yet, and in many cases, their loved ones probably don't know yet.

How the fuck do any of you claim to know the truth about anything?
Is it fun to be vicariously political through adopting other peoples' struggles? (especially when its somebody else getting wasted)
To gratify yourself by arguing over the fucking internet?
(I personally hate computers, and right now i am dictating to my personal assistant/concubine/assassin)

Big ups to ALL indigenous struggles and national liberation movements. I know you ain't terrorists. I'll send ducats when I can afford to, but right now i owe about twenty g's to some shadowy figures.

"To the success of our hopeless task."

Peace, compassion and respect to all you undeserving pieces of soon to-be-rotting or dessicated flesh. Have a nice day, too.

I don't think google should ban anyone from thier searchs. Having said that... If they feel they must it should be about context not just about if a slur was used or not.. i have read many news articals that have slurs in them.. but they are in the context of the story (ie: quotes). Dont they have someone who reviews this stuff? If a word comes up they don't like in thier seach they should at least review the site and see in what context the word was used.

zapatista

Islamofascist is a legimate word to describe members of the Islamic religion wishing to impose their fascist theology on the world. "Zionazi" is a slur, and YOU KNOW IT. Don't even try to hide behind your bigoted Stalinist bullshit, you KNOW it is true. You are so out of touch with reality that it stinks.

Look at the http://www.google-watch.org/
It seems that the problem is much bigger than SFIMC censorship problems.

Couple of years ago some people decided to set up independent media to overcome grip of mainstream media.
Maybe now the time has come to start to think about independent, radically democratic web searcher with transparent rules of hiding/exclusion.

- "both ideologies are of extreme right, fascist extraction"

- this is a generalization which will be based on your later statements. Basically your definition of facism needs clarification. For comparisons sake I will include "comunist states" and "the arab states"

, both are in a category someimes call "blood and soil" ideologies ("lets spill their blood and take their soil").

when has israel called for that? unless you are describing zionists ans the extreemist marginal group. in that case you also need to re-define "zionist" However its easy to find arab states or comunist states that have called for that.

- "both zionism and national socialism ("nazism") are ideologies which profess the racial supremacy of their respective clienteles - germans or "aryans" and jews - thus claiming unlimited moral superiority when asserting their interests vis-a-vis the "others", who do simply not count and are effectively dehumanized."

Except in as far as judeism suggests racial superiority zionism does no more than that. However its easy to see policies that favour Han in china (for example who are there widly believed to be the superior race) and arabs/muslims in the middle east.

- "both ideologies started out as a way of vindicating the aspirations of a deeply disaffected clientele"

like comunism or infact almost any other form of government.

"- both ideologies end up professing imperialistic expansion in the name of european vs. non-europeans interests - the nazis have their well known "lebensraum" which makes it necessary to take away the lands of the "inferior" slavs to the east, the zionists have their misguided "land without people for a people without land" justifying their setlement in palestina, whose people cease to exist due to herzls criminal delusion."

Jews are not "europeans" and the people are not "ceasing to exist" their population has been growing. anyway refer to chineese policies towards han or indonesian policies towards javaneese etc etc

"- the (main) authors of both ideologies lived in vienna during the years in which they formed their political consciousness, "

You want to bomb vienna for that? What a ridiculous connection.

"both were immigrants from other parts of the austro-hungarian empire."

the austro hungarian empire is already dead you cant get revenge on them for that conincidence.

"- the authors or main exponents of both ideologies, hitler and herzl, died "mysterious" deaths."

Huh? hitler commited suicide because he was about to get hung upside down and skinned by a bunch of angry russians. no mystery there.

"- both zionism and nazism were supported in their beginnings by european empires of the fin-de-siecle era: the russian and british empires, probably also the german kaiser."

This is a meaningless statement. however there was some british support for most of the arab states and some support for the communists during WWII so you could claim the same for them I guess.

" furthermore, the ascendancy to power was (and is) financed by the U.S.A., or more precisely by wealthy american interests probably fronting for the british empire. this is something they have in common with communism."

They have EVERYTHING relevant in common with comunism and islamic systems Yes the US funds many islamic countries and you could say alot of comunist countries too. Inf act half the countries in the world seem to be on US payroll.

"never hate them for they are not worth it and it will lower you to their level. look at them objectively, judge them by their deeds rather than by their words. "

Now that makes sense so why were you trying to arbitrarily define the zionists as "similar lt nazis" when your philosophy above would imply you should judge them completely independantly on their actions?

"Islamofascist is a legimate word to describe members of the Islamic religion wishing to impose their fascist theology on the world. "Zionazi" is a slur, and YOU KNOW IT. Don't even try to hide behind your bigoted Stalinist bullshit, you KNOW it is true. You are so out of touch with reality that it stinks."

There you go, insulting people with the Stalinist label. Fuck off. Anyway, even allowing that Islamofascist is a legitimate word, "raghead," which clearly came up in Google News' search, is most definitely not. And really, Political Islam is more apt than Islamofascism. At least you'll be able to have a more intelligent conversation using it than the latter.

http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/46414.php
came up in a search .. "google "full military""

one needs a FULL MILITARY @ go*gle
by km, Friday April 18, 2003 at 06:40 PM

Interesting
by Komodo 9:23am Sat Apr 19 '03 comment#5925


Some of the top hackers are now hired by big corporates and Gov security sites to protect their online businesses, so no doubt these people will be shared around...

Simple answer, don't allow cookies, install Ad-Aware from http://www.webattack.com/get/adaware.shtml, kill all that spyware crap and then don't download any more of that type of warez again, and for goodness sake disable javascript.

"Young, stupid script kiddies"
A term I despise, most users of google search functions are more likely uneducated in online security, have cookies/javascript allowed, don't use any form of firewall protection or if so, don't have it configured correctly, and/or your basic home web designers etc.

This amounts to the majority of the e-populace...

OR maybe use the google-watch proxy

You mean like this?

http://www.ainfos.ca/03/apr/ainfos00166.html

Ainfos does seem to be less dominated by one psycho editor mixing opinions with editing decisions, but its not a local news site so its less useful for local event coverage.

When you have a committee doing something the something never gets done. When that something is Editing nothing gets edited. Hence you have Google calling you an unmoderated site. Because in fact that is what a moderating committee ends up being.
Try having your committee sit in a room and draw up rules before the need to use them arises. Then give each committee member the ability to exercize the delete following the agreed upon guidelines. Then Google will reinstate Indy.

If you use a committee on each and every individual post no wonder you never have the hate mail squelched. Committees are made to NOT get things done. What you need to do is have your committee meet and draw up rules that are unambiguos. Then give each moderator a copy of the rules and let them make their own value judgements on individual posts without interference from committees. After a while you will see Google come back. Right now you have what amounts to anarchy.

that will never work Indymedia (example)
has allowed supporters of the Palestinians Hooligans to post what ever vulgar statements they want, gang up on posters, and in fact bully the majority of the list. the editors who support this group allow this behavior and even edit or delete dissenting opinions to sway the argument.

this is not an isolated event, this happens across the board on a daily basis
why? s/f Indy Staff seem to want to squash any view that differs from their own

I can't believe that I am actually agreeing with Indymedia. A clear example of double standards..

Hell, the suffix nazi has been applied to so many groups....femi-nazi, eco-nazi, sandwich-nazi, that it no longer has it's original connotation....It is used to show an unbending, totalitarian, and unreasoning quality in the group/person that is being associated with it. Not a slur...but a description ...probably not the wisest choice of words..but hardly worth banishment..

I know that the use of this word will offend many that suffered under the Nazi Regime...and I truly hope that they are well and are not finding this discourse too offensive. Probably their descendants are the loudest and most critical voices..and that is fine...somebody has to speak for the past...

But,I find it almost as unrational as the Muslim world's phobia of the word "Crusade"...1000 years later..

So if you are going to start protecting groups from becoming offended...I can fax you a list of words to censor..

The reason Google bans Indymedia _from the news section_ (not from the web-search section) is not because of the word "zionazi" - that's a convenient excuse.

The reason Indymedia is banned is because it is LOONY. "News" at Indymedia seems to mean whatever vitriol someone decides to "publish."

It's as if Russell Crowe's character from "A Beautiful Mind" got his own website.

And the _constant_ confusion between Google's web-search and news-search section proves how lightly connected to reality Indymedia is.

I can find "zionazi" _using the web search at Google_, because (a) yes, it's used on the web, and (b) it's used frequently at Indymedia, a web site just like any other website. I can't find "zionazi" using the _news search_ because frankly, (a) it is not news and (b) Indymedia is not a NEWS site. It is a LOON'S site.

This post will be deleted within 15 minutes, but it was fun typing anyway.

Papercougar: "Try having your committee sit in a room and draw up rules before the need to use them arises."

I'd particularly like an explicit decision on whether or not it is official Indybay editorial policy that any pro-Zionist post is by definition inherently racist and therefore should be pulled from the site on sight, like other forms of racism. Various editorial statements have flirted with this stance and then backed away, leaving the process a confusing pile of ad hoc.

@%<

Indymedia is not a news site.

This website is basically a message board, with a bunch of crackpots picking which threads to highlight and which to censor.

news.google.com people probably wanted to find a specific loophole so they wouldn't have to explain to you that in the world of NEWS, you guys are a bunch of wacked out loons who seem to spend 90% of your time watching the jews.

>"Once again only yesterday,I proposed that Zionists be banned from this site, except for Gehrig..."

What in your eyes makes Gehrig's more suitable to have this honor bestowed upon him than other pro-Zionists and philo-Semites who have or haven't posted on this site?
I'm especially intrigued as to why those who haven't yet posted here yet should be blocked or banned.

"Death to Israel." Does that sound offensive? It isn't.

Palestine + Zionists = Israel + dead Palestinians + Palestinian refugees.
Israel = the bloodstained destruction of palestine
"death to Israel" = the liberation of Palestine
"death to Israel" is 100% defensive in nature.

"Israel has a right to exist" = Zionists have a right to just move in, take over, steal what they can, MURDER anyone who resists the Zionist's offensive invasion, route bereaving widows and orphans into the wilderness, and 20 years later, invade the wilderness to steal more land and MURDER (see below) more resisters of Zionist offenses.
"Israel has a right to exist" is 100% offensive in nature.

Does a Jewish nation have a right to exist is a philosophical question at best. Do Zionists have a right to murder palestinians and steal the palestinian's homeland is a real world question that has been getting the palestinian victims of Zionist offenses killed for decades. The meaningless philosophical question gets all the air time and the actual real world questions never gets aired in the media. Controling the debate is how Zionists controle you. In Media ethics class, the first lecture was < TV does not tell people what to think. TV tells people what to think about. Confusing reality with a scripted debate is the game plan of ZIonists, and goole wants to help them.

MURDER -from above- If someone comes into your home and just takes your TV set. That person would be a thief. RIGHT? We all know tha is truth. And if you tried to stop the thief, only for the thief to pull a gun and blow your brains all over your family, and still steals your survivor's TV set, than that thief would be a MURDERER as well. RIGHT? We also know that that is true, why else would we make that a law acros america. And that is just what Zionists did in palestine. Zionists wanted the Palestinian's homeland, so they murdered for it. And every new settlement is more theft and every Palestinian resister of Zionist offenses to be gunned down is MORE murder. when you are looking at Zionists, you are seeing 4 generations of murderous thieves.
The oslo agrements gave Zionists the oportunity build more settlements (steal more west bank lands) and the palestinians largly kept thier mouths shut because of the empty promisses of part of thier homeland being liberated from Zionist controle in the oslo agrement. After more thefts of palestinian lands under the oslo lies, a new intifada started resisting the thieving CRIMES of Zionists in palestine(Zionists don't even have the character to admite that thier crusade is even rude, much less the bloodstained war of conquest that it is, and the media, and google, has convinved many to buy into that lie). In the current resistance to the Zionist's murderous thieving offenses, over 180 palestinians were MURDERED ( many more wounded and cripled or made homeless) before the first suicide bomber struck. But the media has many convinced that Zionists are inocent victims of palestinian offenses and that they are defending themselves. Constantly stealing Palestinian lands is offensive, not defensive. resistance of palestinians to the Zionist's collective (collective- all Zionists have the blood of every palestinian killed in the Zionists theft on thier hands, more below) theft of Palestinian lands is defensive, not offensive. How has America been so brainwashed to believe the Zionist's lies? Media, teachers, preachers, etc. In school I learned that in 1948, the Jews returned to thier homeland. Homeland? 3000 years ago, Hebrews murdered Canaanites, Amorites, parazites, Hivites, Jebuzites, and even some Hittites to steal the land. WHY IN HELL DID A PUBLIC SCHOOL (GOVERNMENT) TEACHER TRY TO TEACH ME THAT MURDER IS A VALID MEANS TO PROFIT? Hebrews murdering for the land is a pretty piss poor pretext for ZIonists to claim (in words and actions) gives them a "birthright" to be murdering palestinians for the land. How brainwashed was I to buy into such crap? I wasn't JUST brainwashed, I was ignorant. I was told to see the "conflict" (Zionist crusade) as a matter of whether or not a Jewish nation had a right to exist; and not, do Zionists have a right to profit from murder.

Sure, not all Zionists personaly murdered for the land. But, not all Nazis murdered for thier own gain either. Schindler didn't invade poland. He, and the thousands of other nazi oportunists just like him, just wanted to profit from the mysery of the poles. These oportunists supported the nazi war effort, and helped the nazi's murderous theft all over europe, and when thier suport of the nazi's crimes threatened them, they knew damn well they had no right to profit from thier suport of the nazi's murderous thieving crimes, and they got the hell out of the land nazis murdered for. And most Zionists never personaly murdered for the land, they just helped or followed the murderous thieving 48ers (SF) who did the killing. Like schindler and the thousands like him, Zionists don't want blood on thier hands, they just want to profit from the murderous thieving crimes of ionists, who are still living, still profiting from thier crimes. When Zionists, and all reasonable people talk of nazi gold in Swiss banks, they RIGHTLY proclaim that "nobody can be allowed to profit from murder." BUT, because the Hebrews once murdered for the land, Zionists claim the same right. Israel is an abomiNation in thier own eyes. But, with a profit to be made, they don't like to talk about that too much. and they don't want you talking about it either. And call you anti-semetic if you dare to suggest Zionists have no more right to profit from murder than do nazis. Imagine if a bunch of descendants of nazis were to occupy the Anna frank house, nd claim that because thier anscestors once murdered for it, that makes it thier "birthright." Sounds pretty stupid put that way, doesn't it. But we bought into it, thanks to our Zionist chosen understanding of the "conflict." "conflict" sounds like nieghbors not getting along and fighting, which sure as hell ISN"T the case at all. Zionists are Murderous thieving foriegn invadors, not nieghbors. But the ignorant will buy into anything. That is why the media, teachers, preachers and google want to limit what you think about.

How have so many Americans been brainwashed to believe that offensive is really defensive, that wrong is right? 1984 has arived.

Every time I think Indymedia can't get more offensive, ignorant or blantly hardline racist, they go and surprise me again.

wow, you guys are totally off the deep end.

So, the editors here want to ban anyone who isn't against the existence of israel.

And TheTroll (who fits his namesake well, considering on the internet, "to troll" someone means to say ridiculous stuff just to get a rise out of people), his analysis above is absurd.

Israel isn't hurting the 20% of israeli citizens that are muslim. Israel is fighting the jerks next door, who are not citizens of israel, who live on land that israel won in war, who refuse to stop attacking Israel even though israel has repeatedly offered to give them control of the land if they will once and for all stop attacking.

Furthermore, if you oppose israel's existence because jews have the upper hand, you SHOULD also oppose the exitence of muslim states because muslims have the upper hand. If you are against one religion declaring a state in it's name, you should be against all religions declaring a state in their name. If you spend X amount of time yelling that zionism is racist because it favors jews in immigration, you SHOULD be spending 20X amount of time yelling that all the muslim states are racist for being run via muslim law and, sometimes, not even allowing other religious to be practiced by its citizens.

If you single israel out for having the nerve to EXIST as a "jewish state" (even though 20% of israelis aren't jewish, have full rights, can vote, and some are even in the government), YET YOU DO NOT single out the entire muslim world for the same criticisms, then you people are noting but a bunch of clowns who are unfairly and excessively singling out the jews just like david duke and the other anti-zionists like to as well.

The fact that you people also intentionally outright LIE and exaggerate every single negative thing about zionism and israel, while intentionally minimizing extremely relevant stuff done by the arabs just outside of israel to israel and about israel indicates you're probably not looking to be honest and fair about this.

Speech should not be banned from the internet because it offends somebody. Not matter what you say, somebody somewhere will be offended by it. If you don't offend somebody, you'll offend somebody else. Do we want a bland, boring internet or a lively, vibrant one?

>So, the editors here want to ban anyone who isn't against the existence of israel.

Your reading comprehension skills are abysmal. That is the exact opposite of what I said. I said that I, personally,, wanted to ban all Zionist propaganda, but the rest of the editors wouldn’t let me.

Go back to school.


>Speech should not be banned from the internet because it offends somebody.

I agree totally. But that does not apply to SF-IMC, because SF-IMC is not the internet. It’s one part of the internet. Nothing should be banned from the net as a whole. But it is perfectly reasonable that every individual website be able to choose its own content.

What is not reasonable is that Google bans people who say “zionazi” but not people who say “feminazi”. That is not reasonable at all.


>single out Jews


We do not “single out Jews.” We single out oppressors. Some are Jews, some aren’t. To only single out those oppressors who were not Jewish would be racist.

Nazis have infiltrated the Left (which is clear from some of the fucking mindless Nazi posts here), and "Zionazi" COULD be hate speach. It's a piss-poor choice of words anyway since Israel is very little like Nazi Germany, but very much like the old South Africa.
Remember that there AREN'T any gas chambers in Isreal/Palestine, and there never will be... to use language like "Zionazi" is to ignore the reality of Israel and promote a mindlessnes reactionary response.

Also, Zionism isn't always racist. Einstine supported zionism, but he didn't support the creation of a Jewish-Isreali State. Zionism, by definition, does not support the creation of a Jewish State, but supports the idea of a Jewish homeland. Einstine suggested that Jews should move into the area of Israel and live in peace (sharing the land) with Arabs.

Zionism has also been the rally cry for people who use some of the same terminology as Nazis. Some so-called Zionists do speak in terms of what is essential ethnic clensing, but the Right always speeks this way no matter what their belief or ethnicity or belief system.

Jews aren't our enemy, nor are Zionists, but capitalists who use the language of hate to manipulate the masses. It is our job to avoid perpetuating this language and these ideas... That language includes such words as "raghead". To attack other words and ignore these is to condone their use and forward their ideas.

BTW, let me remind everyone that the issue isn't the use of "Zionazi", since google has yet to presnet proof that "Zionazi" was ever used in any article given them by sf.imc. It is this point that is the most troubling.

The holucaust deniers from Indymedia are crying like babies. ha ha ha. Indymedia is "News organization" like IHR is "History research organization".

The reality of Israel is the destruction of palestine. Outside of ZIonist occupied Palestine, there is NO Israel. And not wanting to be a part of the destruction of palestine, for the profit of murderous thieving Zionists is not mindless, though it is reactionary, since democraps and republitrash use public taxes to do just that, being a part of Palestines destruction, which is still OFFENSIVE and created the hatred that has been getting Americans targeted by terrorist for decades. And only when 3000 Americans die at once do the people understand that, maybe, supllying Zionists with the means to destroy palestinians isn't so un-offensive after all. You know, US Army Air COrps pilots didn't risk and loose thier lives bombing messerschmitt factories because they had an inborn hatred of aircraft factories and workers (innocent civilians when refering to Zionists bombed) inside. They risked and lost thier lives bombing the factories because the factories were supllying hitler with the means to destroy his nieghbors. You can believe the WTC attacks were directed at us because we are rich and democratic if you like. But, maybe, just maybe, democrats and republicans reloading the Zionists guns as fast as they can unload them into Palestinians, just maybe, in the eyes of some , is not a "mindless reactionary responce." After all, who would give murderous thieves guns to murder and steal, and really think they are inocent. And the American republic being treated like a democracy makes the popular insanity (Zionists have a right to murder and steal is clearly insane nazi bullshit) acceptable.

And Zionists do have quite a bit in commun with nazis(which is why I don't use the word "zionazi", too redundant). England and france declaired war on Germany because the nazis invaded Poland. Apparently invading your neighbors is bad when some people do it, and not even RUDE when other people do it. When Arabic speeking nieghors of the pAlestinians tried and failed to liberate palestine from the Zionist invadors, it shows up in the media, including google, as a bad thing. England and france try and fail to liberate Poland, but it is still the Germans who started world war 2. Arabic nieghbors of the palestinians try and fail to liberate palestine, and they get accused of being the genesis of the "conflict" by "attacking" the Zionist Crusader State. Palestine + Zionists = Israel. You have to be pretty brainwashed to buy into the lie that Zionists are not the agressors. So, why the 2 sets of rules? Germans invade Poland, Zionists invade palestine, one starts the war, the other doesn't. Zionists are like nazis in reality, but not in the media, google included. Any half assed responces to that one?

But lets get to the marrow. Nazis invaded Czechoslovakia claiming that, because the Germans once ruled the land in the Holy Roman Empire, and because there was a minority of Germans in the Sudaten Mountains, that they had a right to take the land for themselves. The Nazi invasion was appeased by the western powers, England and France. Individual Czechs resisting the foriegn invadors bombed some Nazis occupying Bohemia, and the nazis respond by wiping the city of Lidice out. "If the Czechs want peace, they must accept Nazi occupation."

Zionists invaded palestine claiming that because the Hebrews once murdered for the land and ruled there a while and that because there was a small minority of Jews in the land that they had a "birthright" to invade palestine. The Zionist invadors offenses were also appeased by western power brokers England France, and a whole lot more in the Judeo-christian dominated (40 to 10) 1947 UN (When the Judeo-christian dominated 1947 appeased the Zionist invasion of palestine, everything is great. BUT, when a much, MUCH more inclusive 2003 UN chooses not to appease Bush's invasion of Iraq, the UN is now irrelivant, obsoleat, meaningless. Again, 2 sets of rules, just like at google, was the UN ever an organization for peace, or always just an organization of appeasment?). Individual Palestinians bomb the Zionists occupying Palestine drops 2000 pound bombs on apartment complexes. You hear Zionists saying it all the time. "IF the Palestinians want peace, they must accept Israel (Zionist occupation)." This is a clear threat made against Palestinians by Zionist agressors. But not in the media, and not in your minds.

Zionists invaded Palestine like Hungarians invaded Slovakia. Germans invaded CzechoSLOVAKIA, took what they wanted, and offered the Slovakian portion to thier Hungarian allies. Britts occupied Palestine (under a leage of nations mandate, also a judeo-christian dominated boy's club) and made the balfour declaration (Zionists get to move into Palestine under the protection of the Brittish gun like hungarians invaded Slovakia under the protection of Nazi guns). 25,000 brittish troops were preventing the Palestinians from liberating thier land from Zionists. And since Britts didn't want an actual fight, they disarmed the Palestinians, while Zionists got guns from many private entrapanuers in the west (tommy guns were popular to Zionists) as well as a butt load of weapons from the soviet's Czechoslovakian puppet government, while the palestinians remained unarmed by britts through 48. And the Zionist take over of Palestine is called miraculous in the media. Hardly. Any way, Britts promising Zionists the Palestinian's homeland is about as valid as the nazis giving Slovakia to Hungarians. and the western dominated leage of nations giving a mandate to Brittain is equaly as worthless. Longshanks promissed his minions land in Scottland too. So what? English people have no right to give Palestine to anybody. And the western states also felt that the Christian Cusader States were legitimate, and could choose who lives in palestine. Doesn't mean crap, though. If anyone but Palestinians have a right to say who gets to live in palestine, lets hear it. Come on. Who? The judeo-christian dominated 1947 UN had puppets of corperate America like El Salvador, Haiti, Cube, Nicaragua, etc deciding to let Zionists murder palestinians and steal the palestinian's homeland. Who the hell is any Cuban to be diciding Palestinian emigration. Come on, any half assed responce to this one is apreaciated. I never get one, even half assed. And once you realize that Cubans and Haitians have no, NO, business giving palestine to Zionists, you have to ask yourself, who the hell are democrats and Republicans to be doing so.

The balfour declaration made the Zionist's offensive intentions in Palestine plain for all to see. And the Palestinians resisted as well as unarmed people can. The Zionists knew thier offensive actions were not welcome into the Palestinian's lives. Palestinians didn't ask to be destroyed by forign invadors, like the Slovakians didn't ask for Hungarian invadors to just move in, take over, yadda yadda yadda. But Palestine was an easy steal, what with the locals being under the brittish (longshank's) guns, like Slovakia was an easy steal under nazi guns. Zionists din't have to invade palestine, they chose to. Zionists knew there actions were offensive, but kept going to palestine, with the guns they could collect. After all people do not invade thier nieghbor's homeland, even with brittsh blessings to do so, and really expect peace. Invading your nieghbor's homeland is usually considered an offensive action, like when Nazis started world war 2 by invading Poland, and not when England and france declaired war on Germany becuase the Germans invaded Poland. Palestine + Zionists = Israel, do the math yourself for God's sake. How hard is it really.

And the gas chambers, can't leave them out. But, since germans invading Poland was offensive enough to start world war 2, they didn't need gas chambers to qualify as murderous thieves, did they? But, some people say that because Zionists didn't have gas chambers, that Zionists murdering Palestinians and stealing the palestinian's survivor's homeland isn't even rude. Come on, how about RUDE? Can't even admit that much, can you. And the nazis didn't kill 6 million Jews. Einshadds groupen and the SG killed them, nazis removed Jews from nazi controled society, where the real nut cases ( a percentage of germans, and nazis for that matter, less than the percentages of Zionists involved in massacreas in 48. Ironic, isn't it?) could murder. Wow, I been a busy poster, lets see anyone respond to anything to any of this.

Where has Indymedia denied the Holocaust? Be specific.

"The reality of Israel is the destruction of palestine. "

Heard of the "two states" solution? that would include one "israel" and one "palestine"

" You know, US Army Air COrps pilots didn't risk and loose thier lives bombing messerschmitt factories because they had an inborn hatred of aircraft factories and workers (innocent civilians when refering to Zionists bombed) inside. They risked and lost thier lives bombing the factories because the factories were supllying hitler with the means to destroy his nieghbors."

If palestine wants to make war on israel and loose very badly it can do that. But it has not done that therefore the people who are fighting are not equivilent to those who fought against the nazis on behalf of an army of a country.

You can believe the WTC attacks were directed at us because we are rich and democratic if you like.

main reason for WTC according to osama was the US was in saudi arabia why were they there? to protect saudi arabia and kuwait from iraq. Secondary reasons were frustration with the decline of islam in terms of world influence vulnerability of the US to terrorism the fact that the US has a immage of backing down when the going gets tough (vietnam) and the general self flagulation that goes on in the liberal media.

"England and france declaired war on Germany because the nazis invaded Poland. Apparently invading your neighbors is bad when some people do it, and not even RUDE when other people do it."

They let germany take all sorts of land before they declared war on it. poland was the "if we let them take one more we wont be able to stop him" sort of point. War was a form of self preservation.

"England and france try and fail to liberate Poland, but it is still the Germans who started world war 2."

England and france started WWII ok? happy now?
However they attacked germany immediatly after they invaded poland and everyone knew that would be the result before.they did not declare war on israel because of the rhine land. Germany also represented a real and present danger to the exsistence of france as it proved in the next few months. That is not true about israel and egypt or syria for example.


"But lets get to the marrow. Nazis invaded Czechoslovakia claiming that, because the Germans once ruled the land in the Holy Roman Empire, and because there was a minority of Germans in the Sudaten Mountains. "

Hmm are you saying this is equivilent to the palistinians claim to israel? if so goood point!. by the way I am not sure you have your facts right.

"UN (When the Judeo-christian dominated 1947 appeased the Zionist invasion of palestine, everything is great."

The UN division of israel is not the moral foundation on which israel exsists so you are seeing hypocracy where there is none.

" You hear Zionists saying it all the time. "IF the Palestinians want peace, they must accept Israel (Zionist occupation)." This is a clear threat made against Palestinians by Zionist agressors. But not in the media, and not in your minds."

You call israels exsistance occupation? I suppose your solution is for 6 million jews to be oppressed as opposed to 2 million palistinians?
just take the two states solution.

(under a leage of nations mandate, also a judeo-christian dominated boy's club)

-all of these "paying no attention to the history or any plausible alternative" snide remarks are starting to make you look ignorant.

"And the Zionist take over of Palestine is called miraculous in the media."

Nothing is "miraculous" when you know all the details. But why have the arabs with 1 billion or more people in the world willing to donate money to help them been unable to get togehter enough resources to be anything other than one of the poorest countries in the world with a military that is a joke.

"Any way, Britts promising Zionists the Palestinian's homeland is about as valid as the nazis giving Slovakia to Hungarians. and the western dominated leage of nations giving a mandate to Brittain is equaly as worthless."

Just like the romans giving britain to the angles or france to the franks or the russians giving alaska to the USA etc etc. The same is true about the formation of every country in the world and the movements of every race in history..
there are 6 million people thee now and most of them wee born there. they have as much right to be there as anyone else and a democracy will mean that they carry the majority vote.

"English people have no right to give Palestine to anybody."

The west defined most of the state boundaries in the world . do you suggest we for get that and start finghting wars again to check where they "should" be?

Who the hell is any Cuban to be diciding Palestinian emigration.

palestine applied to the court of "might is right" and they found out that the israelis won there too. they are welcome to apply to the democratic system as i said before.

" And once you realize that Cubans and Haitians have no, NO, business giving palestine to Zionists, you have to ask yourself, who the hell are democrats and Republicans to be doing so."

dont you remember we are the ones that dont like the UN. but if you really want an answer the UN might give it is that those countries provide a relitively unbiased view to the situation.

"The balfour declaration made the Zionist's offensive intentions in Palestine plain for all to see. And the Palestinians resisted as well as unarmed people can. "

they are armed by the way. they just arent very organized

"Invading your nieghbor's homeland is usually considered an offensive action"

You arent suggesting the US declare war on mexico because of the latin american "invasion" of america are you? If it happens that latin americans outnumber anglosazon americans then they will win the elections and no one outside of a special division of the KKK will care. but for some reason maybe you will.

" they didn't need gas chambers to qualify as murderous thieves, did they?"

WWII was started for the self defense reasons.. not any other so your point is irrelevant.

Most people don't have the guts to admit that Zionists are foriegn invadors as you have. And the might makes right mentality of Zionistsm, not Palestinians who have not had any might, which you say validates the Zionist;s murderous thieving crusade, just makes the reality all the more apparent.

A 2 state solution, yes, I have heard of it. Vichi France was 1 such example. If the french would accept that 2 state solution, the Germans wouldn't have occupied Vichi France too. A 2 state solution in Palestine would include a portion of Palestine being independent and Zionist occupied Palestine. Hardly fair for the Palestinians. Can I have 78% of your property? No, I didn't think so. And if I used to might makes right mentality of Zionists and nazis, and just killed you for your property, I would be as much a murderous thief as the nazis were and the Zionists are, wouldn't I. A "state". WOW. 22% of thier homeland, and Zionists have the nerve to call thier bloodstained theft of 78% of Palestine to be a "generous offer." The crumbs of a once full loaf the ZIonists murdered to steal. And you have the nerve to suggest that is kosher. What a joke. At least we find out where certain sterio types comes from. A 'Generous" offer. A "state" is not all that Palestinians want. They want Palestine to be liberated from the murderous thieving Zionist invadors.

And most Zionists being born in Zionists occupied palestine doesn't give them any right to stay. If the Zionists had been born in the USA, then they would be American citizens. but, who has any right to be choosing Palestinian emigration policy but the Palestinians? Still no answer to that one.America is a large country, Palestine is a small land with limited resorces, that the Palestinians want back from the murderous thieving Zionist crusaders, who still have no business being in Palestine.

Osama, Hell, I still haven't seen any evidence he was involved, while the evidence linking Zionists to the WTC attack is "Classified." Since it is imposable to classify evidence that does not exist, there must be evidence linking Zionists. But, lets assume that we haven't been lied to, and Osama did the WTC attacks. He started out being upset that Americans were in Saudi, but the pool of people who were willing to blow themselves up to get the American forces out of Saudi, dried up pretty quikly. So he started using the sanctions on Iraq killing uncounted Iraqis, and the Zionist's murderous thieving crusade in Palestine killing counted, although not reported in the western media, Palestinians as his recruitment calling card. Osama didn't fly a plane into anything. It is the people who are willing to follow him that are the danger. If Osama was sitting around saying, "there is lint in my belly button, become a suicide bomber against America" he would have even fewer people willing to die.

Palestinians liberating thier homeland from the murderous thieving Zionists is not making war on Israel. Israel is the war. Israel is the only war in Palestine. Ending the Zionist's war of conquest and kicking them out is not "making war" as you would have the ignorant masses buy into. But, the old might makes right law of the jungle still has you placing Zionists as having a right to murder and steal, if they win. What a load of crap. It looks like people haven't evolved much in the last few thousand years.

War as self preservation is OK, but to some people, when Palestinians fight back against foriegn invadors, it is presented as evil in the western press, when it is the Zionist offenders who are the actual evil party.
Ever since the balfour declaration made the Zionists offensive intentions clear, there was a "real and present danger" to the Palestinians. So, unlike your assertion says, it was true about Israel. And Egypt and Syria tried and failed to liberate Palestine (for thier own gain I am sure) like England and france tried and failed to liberate Poland (to maintain thier controle of world affairs). So, you are wrong again.

"PALESTINIANS CLAIM TO ISRAEL." What a joke. Outside of Zionist occupied Palestine, there is NO Israel. The palestinians claim to palestine is as real today as it was before Zionists murdered for the land they presently occupy.

The Zionists claim Palestinian resistance to the Zionist's offenses are "born of evil" since the world community (Judeo-christain world) said Zionists have a right to murder and steal. Zionists have no moral right to murder even a single palestinian or steal a single square inch of Palestine. Correct me if I am wrong. If zionists do have such a right, lets see it. maybe I and my friends and relatives have the same right to murder Costa Ricans and steal 78% of thier homeland. There are lots of other spanish speeking catholic lands for the Costa Ricans to move to. Isn't that the rationalization Zionists use about palestinians, that they have a right to profit from murderous theft because the Arabic speeking Muslim Palestinians have other Arabic speeking muslim lands to move to. Sound pretty stupid put that way, doesn't it? Zionists have all sorts of rationalizations for why they have a right to murder and steal. israel is a democracy. And how does being a democratic bloodstained crusade give Zionists any right to mrder and steal? jews have contributed greatly to western civilization and America in particular. And how does that make the crimes of Zionists against thier palestinian victims any less of a crime? Intel inside does NOT give Zionists any right to murder and steal. So, just what moral right ( as the TV set god tells me to believe ZIonists have) do Zionists have to murder and steal. Be specific.

2 million (incorect number) victims being opresed by 6 million offenders. Yes, it is better if the criminals be dumped on and the victims be liberated. And Israel is Zionist occupied palestine, no matter how many appeasers of Zionist offenses there are in the world. And i noticed you didn't actualy respond to my words, you just tried to change the subject. Is that an admition from you that I am right, like when you admitted Zionism is offensive when you claimed might makes right.

Other arabs haven't... what was it, you are confusiing me. How does the actions of arabs make the Zionist's crimes against palestinians anyless of a crime? Were you trying to change the subject again? Weak dude, really weak.

Other in history were murderous thieves, and that still doesn't give Zionists any right to murder and steal, now does it. Why can't you just stay on subject, and not try to muddy the waters of understanding with your sidetraking meaningless rants. If you have nothing of substance to write on the subject of the Zionist's offensive war of conquest in palestine, just admit it.

Apply to the democratic systom. Wow, and if they do not? Does that give Zionists any right to murder and steal? NO. Hebrews murdered for the land because the Canaanites, etc, were "evil in your god's eyes." These days that means not having a western style democracy that kisses the ass of western power brokers. Thanks for the great lead in, scottie.

We hate the UN? Now that ithe UN isn't just a tool for appeasing our friends and allies offenses around the world, we hate them. Back when the UN was a tool of democrats and republicans selling out American power for special intest votes and campain contributions, and creating the hatred that has been getting Americans targeted by terrorists for decades, we liked the UN. How about something of substance. The ignorant hate speech of yours is getting pretty old.

Palestinians were unarmed, not unorganized. Arabic neighbors of the Palestinians had a small military force, after they were liberated (quasi liberated) by western powers. Why do you try to confuse people that palestinians and Arabic speaking nieghbors are the same. is it so Zionists can say, "those Arabs have other arab lands to move to", as a rationalization, ment to distract ingorant masses from the fact that zionists are still the offending party, even after occupying the Palestinian's homeland for 55 years?

The US and Mexico, wow, what a side steping tool. 2 wrongs makes the Zionist's offensive wrongs against palestinians somehow less of the bloodstained crusade that we all know it to be? How? Come on, I haven't gone for the 2 wrongs claim since I was 4. Just what sort of situational morality do you follow? pathetic.

And palestinians and thier arabic speeking muslim nieghbors tried to defend Palestine from the Zionist agressors. So the point was entirly valid, even if you choose to ignor it. Weak. WEAK! WEAK! WEAK! It is too bad you had nothing of substance to right. i love a real challenge. maybe when you are no longer restricting yourself to parroting out the Zionist's lies, you can write something that actualy makes sence and affects people as my words do. I have been seeing my triple x rant edited down to PG-13 and showing up in the debate for over 3 1/2 years now. And Zionists keep trying to change the subject, attack the messanger, create disinformation designed to foster hatred of palestinians (below), and do everything they can to limit your understanding of reality.

On 911, the media showed video of Palestinians dancing in the street. but the video showed quite clearly that the shadows were of noontime. And the WTC attacks occured at 5 PM Zionist occupied palestine time. So, the videos could not have been taken after the attacks, and must have been file footage. Why have so many Americans been lied to, and made to hate palestinians? And at the same time, zionists lowered thier flags to half mast, and claimed that the attack means we should provide them with more aid to fight the terrorism thier war of conquest created. Wow, it is bad enough for ZIonists to sacrifice thier own kids in the war the Zionists started for thier own gain, and then parade the corpses out to the media as public relations tools. But, when Zionists use our pain and losses for public relations when there were still moans of the dieing under the rubel, well, that is just too ghoulish for me. Have a nice day.

why does Palestine MURDER women and children in schools, shopping centers and churches. THEN HIDE LIKE COWARDS behind the pretense of there being at war? you do not have a country you cannot be at war with out being a country first ! you do not have a country! the land you live on doesn't belong to you .

ps, love the new list name angie, no one will want to steal this one!

Islamofacist - doesn't that refer to the extreme right within the Muslim community? Or are we going to assume it doesn't exist and call it derogatory?

Israel has their own extreme rightwing party of course. Is there an equally derogatory name for them?

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. (from Encyclopedia Italiana, Giovanni Gentile, editor). Quote is also at bottom of full-page Washington Post ad, May 16 2003, page A25.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/051603_wash_post_ad.html
http://corporatism.tripod.com/texas.htm Texas is an evil fundamentalist example. ;)

http://www.stop-us-military-aid-to-israel.net/Banners.htm

I'm probably one of the first people to have used the term 'Zionazi' on signs at Bay Area demos, so I have a strong reason to comment here.

My only problem with the term 'Zionazi' is the ambiguity of whether it is just an epithet for 'Zionist' or if it applies to specific manifestations of Zionism, and, if the latter, which ones. While I think it's clear that political Zionism as such is a Nazi-like ideology, there are some people who are abstract believers in Zionism but don't accept the racist consequences of that belief. I wouldn't want to call such people Zionazis.

On the other extreme of Zionism, there are large groups, particularly the Gaza and West Bank settlers (the ideological ones, not the economic opportunists), whose affinity to Naziism is so clear, so unclouded by the deviousness of more mainstream Zionism, that it's hard to see how any reasonable person could object to the label 'Zionazi' being applied to them.

I, however, am not taken in by the lies of the mainstream Zionists, and feel that they, too, should be labeled Zionazis, at least in situations where their Nazi-like behavior is manifested, including the treatment of Palestinians in the territories occupied since 1967. (The treatment of Palestinians in the land occupied before 1967 was Nazi-like in the first decade or so after 1948, but since then has improved to the level of moderate apartheid.)

Moreover, the argument that we can't call them Nazis because they don't have Aushwitz-style death camps is absurd. Nazi Germany didn't have them either until around 1941, when Germany was at war with most of the world and didn't have to be too concerned with public opinion. At least through 1938, Nazi treatment of the Jews wasn't as bad as Zionist treatment of the Palestinians has been.

By the way, I would prefer to refer to Zionists as Judeo-Nazis, since it makes it clear that their ideology and practice are a Jewish version of Naziism, but it seems strange applying that term to the Christian Zionists -- the folks who want Jews and Moslems to slaughter each other so that Jesus 'Christ' will return!

um... you're on Ohlone land.


Not that they're trying to take it back. However, as a number of authors and legal writers have pointed out, there is a huge area of land in North America that all of our legal infrastructure indicates should be owned by separate indigenous nations, but it isn't. Ward Churchill has a book about this. If you take the constitution which says that treaties are the highest law of the land, and if you look at the various treaties (plus take into consideration that they never even signed treaties with a lot of tribes, or got a person who wasn't head of the tribe to sign a treaty), there is a heck of a lot of land which currently is labeled as US gov't land, but legally doesn't belong to them. It's typically BLM or forest service land, but this includes large tracts like the black hills. Are you doing anything to get natural resources back to the navajo and hopi where the coal mining companies have run down their water table so they have to drive into town to get water and take showers?

"it is the belief that control of a particular piece of real estate should be determined on the basis of lineage."

Like Iran? Pakistan? Eritrea? Ethiopia? etc. etc. etc.

But to the point of this lame post, the term Zionazi is not wrong because it is hateful (it is) but because it is not accurate. It is just as lame as Limbaugh calling feminists "Feminazis." Both cases reek of intellectual laziness which is one of many common threads connecting the moth-eaten sweater of extremist politics, both left and right.

If indymedia has taught me anything it is this, move far enough to the left or right and the two meet in their anti-intellectualism, love for violence, and barbarity.

Treaties are not EXCLUSIVELY the highest law of the land. Your statement is very misleading.

Remember: C.L.T.

The (federal) Constitution, Laws and Treaties are the supreme laws in the United States.

So, a law authorizing mining on the land is just as valid as a treaty - actually controlling because it is more recent and superceding...

Do palestinians murder? In America, before people can be called murderers, they get a trial. And in the trial, extenuating sercomstances must be considered. Such as: did the Zionists murdereous theft influence the palestinians actions in ANY way?, and would a Palestinian blow himself up if Zionists were not engadged in offensive actions in Palestine? first question is easy. Yes, the Zionists offenses did create the hatred expressed in violence. The second, well, if instead of being murderous thieves in Palestine, what if Zionists were doing to Costa Ricans what they are doing in palestine (murderous theft), does anyone think any palestinians would travel 1/2 way around the world, strap bombs to thier chests, and sacrifice thier own life to kill Zionists occupying Costa Rice? Pretty stupid idea. So, extenuating sercomstances would clearly make the Zionists the offending party, and palestinians were just responding to the Zionist's crimes in Palestine.
And who they killed would not show up until the sentencing phase, but since the Zionists are clearly the offending party (AND IT IS THE ZIONISTS WHO ARE RUNNING AWAY AND HIDDING FROM THE FACT THAT THEY ARE IN A WAR WHICH IS OF THIER OWN CHOICE AND ACTION), who was killed is irrelivant in determining guilt. Clearly, it is the Zionists who are endangering thier own kids in the offensive war they initiated. But, Zionists need the court of public opinion, since they would stand a chance in a court of law. That is why some people like to point out who was killed, women and children (palestinian women and children were also killed in the Zionist's offensie war of conquest in Palestine) . The people who want a sentencing phase of a trial (who died), and not determination of who is the guilty party (who us responsable) , are popular in the court of public opinion, but Palestinians are still responding to the murderous thief's crimes.

A country. A state. Diplomatic recognition is like a god to some people. Misfortunate people ruled by others, that is. If they don't have a "state" as definded by politicians and burocrats (western power brokers the last several hundred years), then they can be destroyed by foriegn invadors, and it doesn't matter, because they don't have a country. What a load of crap. What was the USA 227 years ago? Not a country, was it. I guess they got it wrong when they named it the Revolutionary WAR. Yes, I know. I'm a bit sarcastic.

still up to the old Palestine is innocent B.S., as if anyone other than JA would believe this tripe.
but to your credit you have finally come to the admission that Palestine is not a real country!
this is a break though! I am happy you have started to deal with reality.

Does anyone believe that the incessant arguments on these pages regarding Israel are getting anywhere?

I say stop the madness. Every damn thread on SFIMC evolves into the same stale crap about that conflict. I think Arafat and Sharon will get married before you people sort this out.

Peace.

"If indymedia has taught me anything"

Sounds like you haven't learned much. Go back to voting for centrists and protecting the zionists. This is what all the scared guilty citizens do when the going gets tough. Protect the Theocracy. Go ahead. If you're so former, then why not act it, and leave?

God, this must be my lucky day! I have never been so tentertained in my life with the goings on here.

Some poor soul, thinking he's had some enlightment from above, is attributing the post by "Troll" to me.

This is just getting better and better. Guess I'd better read the post here to see what's being attributed to me.

--"Stop the Anti-Zionism Debate"

Zionists want everyone to not notice their racist oppression and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. That way they can proceed with their plans quietly and with little opposition.

Since they are using our tax-money to do it and since they could not do any of this without it, we cannot just shut up about all the atrocities Israel is committing in our names.

Paestine is not a country, but the Palestinians are a nation. Having a currence, a military, diplomatic recognition from western powere brokers, etc does not give zionists any right to murder palestinians and steal the Palestinian's survivor's homeland. The point I obviously made is that not having all the things that one assosiates with a country does not make Palestinians subhuman shit on the Zionists shoes. "A land without a people for a people without a land." OK, if Palestinians are not people, what are they? If you prick them, do they not bleed, if you tickle them, do they not laugh? I know, it is almost like you been baited, isn't it. Maybe you were, I am a master baiter. Yuk yuk yuk. But hold onto your belief that not having a country makes Palestinians subhuman shit on the Zionists shoes, and the only problem is where to scrap off the shit. It really shows your prejudices. One poster suggested that palestine is not a real country, but just "southern Syria". Guess what. Kuwait was once southern Iraq, but Americans still died to protect that once non-country from foriegn invadors. And it was viewed as the right thing to do by all. But not for the non-country Palestine. western power brokers appeased the Zionist crusader's war of conquest in palestine, so that makes the Zionist's bloodstained war of conquest less of a crime to some people. Yes, more sarcasm for anyone who buys the Zionist lies.

Palestinians do not want peace? Well, maybe they are not so obtuse as to think foriegn occupation has anything to do with peace. Lets ask an old blond haired blue eyed Norwegian or Dane if they could confuse Nazi occupation with peace. And they were treated much better than Nazis treated Poles and czechs, weren't they. Some Zionists say Jordanioans occupied palestine too. 2 different types of occupation. Jordanians occupied palestine like nazis in Denmark, with troops. While Zionists occupy Palestine like nazis occupied Poland and the ghettos, some they would beat or rob or rape, others the nazis just murdered. Here is anouther example of how Zionists are more like nazis than google would ever allow us consider. Many palestinians were beaten and robbed of everything and left to survive the best they can ( my wilderness definiton has more words than message, but it easy for compasionate people to understand. ), while some Zionists just slaughtered palestinians for the land.

A conspiricy? Really. Well, as I point out regularly, Zionistm is the COLLECTIVE war of conquest in Palestine, so obviously there is a conspiricy, whether or not someone wrote about it 100 years ago. Saying 1 luny wrote from ignorance will change reality is so weak and only shows a scapegoating mentality. Look at the facts. Also, when Silicon Valley was laying off thousands, Bush made seveal multi-billion dollar contracts with high tech companies of the Zionist Crusader State. He even admited it was to beef up the sagging Zionist economy. When US service personel and vetrans were loosing billions in benafits, Zionists get an extra $8 billion to stay out of Gulf War 2. Some ally, wouldn't you say? Where were the ZIonists Stationed in Korea, or Vietnam? They were not. And in Gulf wars 1 and 2, Americans had to pay them tribute to stay out of the fight, as if paying the Zionists tribute to Egypt and Jordan isn't enough. then there is taxes, When an American donates money to the Zionist crusade (desruction of Palestinian's lives and lifes in practice), they do NOT pay taxes on that cash, which they would have IF they were not financing the murderous theft of palestine. And the rest of the taxpayers have to fill in the hole left by those Americans NOT paying taxes on the cash, which gets used for thier own prejudice. The rest get to subsidize the Zionist's war of conquest (prejudice belief that Zionists have a right to murder and steal, from people who don't have a country as defined by western power brokers, of corse), even if they have NO idea they are doing so.

Now, just because some nut case wrote of a Zionist conspiracy 100 years ago, doesn't mean that there is NO conspiracy. that is flawed logic. I would hate to think America's tax payers were sold into servitude (subsidizing your god's promise to your god's chosen murderous thieves, when you know damn well we are supposed to have freedom of religion), and becomeing targets of terrorists for decades, on a whim. but it was no whim. Democraps and republitrash liked getting $40 million in campain contrabutions from Zionist crusade suporters, and before 3000 Americans died at once, they could sweep the victims of the hatred this created under the rug, after all, financing the murderous thieving crimes of ZIonists against palestinians was a democtaic decision, much like the same old fuckers dumping trillions of dollars of thier taxes onto children and unborn Americans with no vote to protect them selves from the sloath of voters.

Angie, if you check it out, my first post was titled "death to israel"

but the Palestinians are a nation.
* no they are not

having a military?
*no you cannot call what goes on there a military

I am a master baiter. Yuk yuk yuk. -troll

Zionistm is the COLLECTIVE war of conquest in Palestine,
**but the Palestinians are a nation

I must admit I'm lost here. Why is someone addressing himself/herself as the troll aka angie?

Why is someone accusing me of being "the troll" and someone else stating no one will use that name as if it were my name or something.

Could someone explain, she pleads pitifully? (Well, not really "pitifully"; it just sounds good, doesn' t it, when one is begging to be told whatever is going on).

I mean, I'm in the habit of writing reams? Nah, only about the wall! Well, I guess i'd best go up to the article "Death to Israel" and see if I can ascertain who is writing what! Sigh.

I have read down through the various posts above, including the ones submitted by the Troll.

Whoever you are, you've made some most interesting comments and comparisons there. You certainly have a grip on the "Zionists" - am I really using this odous word outside the context of my dear Concerned Zionist? - and what they've been up to over the past century. Nothing good, certainly.

Do you think, dear Troll, that come Judgment Day, when everyone will know the truth about this hell hole, that God will deal appropriately with them? We have to believe that.. We certainly have to believe that.

google's only guilt is that it didn't block indy sf sooner.
indy sf has become a cest pool for Jewish haters.
It degraded concern for the parties in the conflict within the middle east into a despotic campaign against the Israeli Nation, and that is not an event that should be dismissed as harmless rantings.
everytime you read a Jewish condemner speak and you don't revolt, you are complicit in whatever s/he is saying and since, this website, has been complicit by being silent, google did not sit quietly in the side lines.
If you wish to be complicit in hate mongering well than prepare to be silenced until you can monitor yourself.

"Most people don't have the guts to admit that Zionists are foriegn invadors as you have. And the might makes right mentality of Zionistsm, not Palestinians who have not had any might, which you say validates the Zionist;s murderous thieving crusade, just makes the reality all the more apparent."

there is no need to justify history since whether it is justifiable doesnt change what happened. What matters now is what will be done considering the situation is as it is now.

the rest of your statements are based on a number of false assumptions. I already have explained why we have a problem with germany and it is irellevant to say things like "the nazi passed environmental protection laws so they must be evil by association!!"
besides that I oculd equally say the axis refused the two state solution to the german french situation. they wanted a one state solution like you.

"Hardly fair for the Palestinians."

At one stage you refer to the "all races equal" sort of argument and then on the other hand you start talking about what is "fair" to a specific race. If you have a non racist viewpoint it is nonsense to talk about palistinians owning property at a collective level.

"A "state" is not all that Palestinians want. They want Palestine to be liberated from the murderous thieving Zionist invadors."

and now you are talking about collective responsibility as well as collective ownership. geezzz.

"And most Zionists being born in Zionists occupied palestine doesn't give them any right to stay. If the Zionists had been born in the USA, then they would be American citizens. but, who has any right to be choosing Palestinian emigration policy but the Palestinians?"

Err.. the europeans dominate politics in america. they are immigrants and they choose the immigration policies of hte state (on the whole). So your example is an example of why the jews SHOULD be able to control immigration as opposed to the palistinians.

"Still no answer to that one."

maybe everyone else thought it was too stupid to respond to

"America is a large country, Palestine is a small land with limited resorces, that the Palestinians want back from the murderous thieving Zionist crusaders, who still have no business being in Palestine."

As I said being born there makes you have a right to be there. If the place you were born isnt your country what is?

"Osama, Hell, I still haven't seen any evidence he was involved, while the evidence linking Zionists to the WTC attack is "Classified.""

If oyur eyes are always closed you will never see anything your explination of osama seem a bit simplistic but Ill let it go.

"Osama didn't fly a plane into anything. It is the people who are willing to follow him that are the danger."

DUH you need both. you dont think that a bunch of your average palistinians will be able to organize a major terrorist strike on the USA do you? Making every terrorist in the world insanely happy might reduce terrorism (but not remove it) but removing the leaders will at least make it much less dangerous.

" you placing Zionists as having a right to murder and steal, if they win.
What a load of crap. It looks like people haven't evolved much in the last few thousand years."

I would deal with all these issues individually not collectively. to deal with them collectively it to encourage racism.

"there was a "real and present danger" to the Palestinians."

there was also a real and present danger to israel. israel fought that war and won. what you are arguing is that the nazi have a right to take terrorist actions against the americans etc.

"Outside of Zionist occupied Palestine, there is NO Israel. The palestinians claim to palestine is as real today as it was before Zionists murdered for the land they presently occupy."

Again why are you so attached to arbritrary names given to pieces of land by ottoman and british imperialists? The point is there are now more jews living in israel than non jews they have elections and elected jewish governments DUH!!

"Zionists have no moral right to murder even a single palestinian or steal a single square inch of Palestine. "

the palistinian are not all being killed and the zionists are not stealing every square inch. so your question is irrelevant.

"There are lots of other spanish speeking catholic lands for the Costa Ricans to move to. Isn't that the rationalization Zionists use about palestinians"

Some people might but I dont. I dont want to move them at all. If you are going to calll anyone who supports israel a zionist you need to realise that they will not all have the same oppinion or the same arguments.

"So, just what moral right ( as the TV set god tells me to believe ZIonists have) do Zionists have to murder and steal. Be specific."

They are not children of the corn and neither are the palistinians figure it out.

"And i noticed you didn't actualy respond to my words, you just tried to change the subject."

what words.. repeat them then

Other in history were murderous thieves, and that still doesn't give Zionists any right to murder and steal, now does it.

- If your standard of proof or guilt is low enough you can convict anyone. the logical thing to do is to focus your efforsts on the MOST guilty. However again you are trying a country and a race and the belief in the existance of hte country. None of which make sense as a vehicle of collective guilt.

"NO. Hebrews murdered for the land because the Canaanites, etc, were "evil in your god's eyes.""

I dont care waht happened to their ancestors see above.

We hate the UN?

I dont hate it I just think its not good at what it is supposed to do. alot of the right however does hate it.

"Back when .... we liked the UN."

maybe you liked them. dont put words in my or our mouth. How about something of substance. The ignorant hate speech of yours is getting pretty old.

"Why do you try to confuse people that palestinians and Arabic speaking nieghbors are the same."

When did I dio that? sure most of the palistinians are fairly recent migrants from surrounding countries but their genetic history is pretty irrelevant really. Unless you are proposing a racist argument again.



" 2 wrongs makes the Zionist's offensive wrongs against palestinians somehow less of the bloodstained crusade that we all know it to be?"
- you are a little slow..
that was not a 2 wrongs = right.
the point was that it is OBVIOUSLY an absurdity to follow your point to its natural conclusion you can take from that what you will.

"And palestinians and thier arabic speeking muslim nieghbors tried to defend Palestine from the Zionist agressors."

Whatever.. yeah maybe they had allah by their side guiding them too.

" maybe when you are no longer restricting yourself to parroting out the Zionist's lies,"

You only think that I am because you are primed only to argue with a "theoretical zionist" it leaves you insulting me for things that I have not said.

"On 911, the media showed video of Palestinians dancing in the street. but the video showed quite clearly that the shadows were of noontime."

This has been delt with before. but since you post is so long I dont have time for it here. your like the "we never landed on the moon" people. No proof is good enough.

"Do palestinians murder? In America, before people can be called murderers, they get a trial."

by that standard then killing hte palistinians is not murder either because they have not had a trial. are you trying to undermine yourself?

"did the Zionists murdereous theft influence the palestinians actions in ANY way?"

In most civilized societies that is not a defence

"clearly make the Zionists the offending party,"

The zionist defence would be "would they have caused palistinians to hate them if the palistinians had not bombed them?" and you get a circular argument . therefore your point is an absurdity.

Monitor myself? Sorry, but I don't know of any nice way to call Zionists a bunch of murderous thieves, or any nice to complain when polititians sell out America's peace for the special intrest crusader vote.

Saying nazis dont have any right to murder or steal doesn't make me German hater, or a nazi hater for that matter. Why does saying Zionists have no right to murder AND steal make someone a Jew hater???

prophets told us who is evil by what they do, not what they call themselves. Ezekial ch 38. Zionists came from all the lands mentioned. Palestinians were left unarmed and defensless, while the Zionists Crusader State is just about everything but defensless (who can do battle with the beast< NT) and the enemies of God get destroyed. Yippy!

Check to see if you actually agree with "the troll" and others before you start becoming so enamoured by them. you see there are lots of people on the "left" who have all sorts of unworkable or unsavoury ideals. Just like there are people on the right.

For example on the face of it osama or a hamas leader or nazi could come on here talk about palestine and sound totally like the troll. I wouldn't jump into bed with them that quickly. besides your a two states solution person aren't you.......... like angel. Maybe at some stage ill do a taxonomy of posters on this board so you can realise that we ae not two homogenous groups.

troll for example as he said is a believer in the jewish "children of the corn" conspiricy theory. It is about as logical as the "blacks are trying to take over the world" argument that the KKK might use.

both of which are very racist at their core because they carry the implied logic that we should discriminate aganst these groups to "even the balance".

Zionists won, so thier claim is stronger. Trial by combat, real rational.

Zionists didn't murder all palestinians, so they are not murderers. Right. Zionists didn't steal every square inch of Palestine, so they are not thieves. Right.

And the rest of your responce, like all of your writings, is just vacant hate speech that even the simplest of minds can see through. Evil is as evil does. If you can't see the truly evil in scotties words, then I couldn't care less about your soul.

To show you what you are like (and the cookie cut nature of your rant)

I replaced Zionist with leftist cut out some off topic stuff replaced a couple of other words (with find and replace) and gee it makes sense in a conservative way

Quoting from troll with the above changes

"Most people don't have the guts to admit that Leftists are foriegn ideologues as you have. And the might makes right mentality of Leftistsm, not Republicans who have not had any might, which you say validates the Leftist’s murderous thieving crusade, just makes the reality all the more apparent.
Ending the Leftist's war of conquest and kicking them out is not "making war" as you would have the ignorant masses buy into. But, the old might makes right law of the jungle still has you placing Leftists as having a right to murder and steal, if they win. What a load of crap. It looks like people haven't evolved much in the last few thousand years.
The Leftists claim Republican resistance to the Leftist's offenses are "born of evil" since the world community said Leftists have a right to murder and steal. Leftists have no moral right to murder even a single republican or steal a single square inch of USA. Correct me if I am wrong. If leftists do have such a right, lets see it. maybe I and my friends and relatives have the same right to murder Costa Ricans and steal 78% of thier homeland. There are lots of other spanish speeking catholic lands for the Costa Ricans to move to
Leftists have all sorts of rationalizations for why they have a right to murder and steal. And how does being a democratic bloodstained crusade give Leftists any right to mrder and steal? Leftists have contributed greatly to western civilization and America in particular. And how does that make the crimes of Leftists against thier republican victims any less of a crime? Intel inside does NOT give Leftists any right to murder and steal. So, just what moral right ( as the TV set god tells me to believe Leftists have) do Leftists have to murder and steal. Be specific. "

Yes that is exactly what you sound like troll.

For anyone interested, here is the letter I sent to Google concerning this issue.

Please feel free to change at as you wish and send it off to Google:

To Whom it May Concern:
I am deeply concerned about your banning of the San Francisco Indymedia site from your news archives.

This is clearly politically motivated and is very troubling.

In a time when average Americans need to be exposed to as many different viewpoints as possible about the Middle East, you have chosen to silence a significant source for viewpoints opposing the mainstream views. This comes at a perilous time as Americans need all the accurate uncensored information they can get about the region and our policies towards it in order to hold their officials accountable.

SF Indymedia is distinguished by the fact that its articles are from a wide array of sources and are contributed by the readers of the site in an attempt to share information which is usually ignored or misrepresented in the mainstream media.

A free press is essential for a democracy to function properly. Your banning of this site is just one more blow to a smoothly functioning democracy in this country because people will have one less source to get the information they need in order to vote with their conscience on US Foreign Policy towards the Middle East. And in turn, this bodes badly for America and the world.

Sincerely,
...

For God's sakes, what are you going on about? What in the name of the Lord are you now babbling about?

With respect to your recent post above directed to "Angie" (that's me) why do I rate an advisory reply from you?

I merely stated to the Troll that he'd made some most interesting comments and comparisons there. That can hardly be called "becoming enamoured" with him.

Stop pouncing, Scottie. I can read, and I can decide for myself what is interesting or not. You're beginning to stifle me, and I don't like "stifle", thank you.

Haha OK as long as you know

Ha ha yourself.

Now that you know I don't like "stifle", how about it? Will you cease?

Incidentally, my friend, in the Prominient Israeli Professor thread, I dragged you into a retort to "Anti Angie" (but in a relatively decent manner). We do, after all, go back to April of 2003.

However, I'm sure I'll hear from you on that in due course as well.

I have never read the Protocals of the Elders of Zion, or any conspiricy theories reguarding zionsm. I just point out the obvious, and let the Zionist supporters expose thier own prejudices. Thanks again Scottie. Anyone can read for themselves that your argument is what you wish I had writen. Since this is probably the first place anyone in here has ever read my rant, it can hardly be claimed that I am not just pointing out the obvious.

And I am not a leftist, I am liberatrian (more so than the party, so I dumped them too). So, your distraction from what I wrote is meaningless to me. You maybe offended some leftists, though. The thing with liberals is that they are more liberal (open minded) and capable of dejecting horseshit ideals, such as, Zionists have a right to murder and steal and it is not offensive to finance the Zionist's bloodstained crusade. While the other side is conservative ( happy to be right all the time), even if they have to lie to themselves, and the world, and to God, to be right all the time, they are ready willing and able to tell lies and believe thier own lies, such as, believing ZIonists have a right to murder and steal, and that financing the destrution of Palestine for political support is not an offence that has been getting Americans targeted by the hatred created by THEM financing the Zionist's bloodstained crusade for decades.

Scottie's rant assumes too much. But, since his rant is nothing more than scapegoating, side stepping, and consisting of nothing but what he, and google, want you to consider. the assumtions, that have no substance, are more distractions. Who cares if some nut case wrote a conspiracy theory 100 years ago? It is not germain to anything I wrote. And does not make me anything like anyone. If osama and Hitler did say the things I said, it doesn't ditract from my pointing out the obvious. Guilt by mythical association? As for things Nazis did say, I do recall an old Nazi video they showed us in middle school. It was the one with the rats running around, and the nazi comentary saying that Jews were like rats, they will move into your homeland, breed like rats, and when thier numbers are great enough, like all parasitic entities, they will destroy thier chosen hoast. Well, since that is just what ZIonists did in palestine, not everything Nazis said about some Jews is automaticly wrong, is it? I can deal with Nazis being right once in a while about some Jews. It means nothing to me, since thier agenda is not mine. I'm just a Christian (not a judeo-christian) trying to save 144,000 JEWS from thier own damNation. It is like, "hey Jew, don't stick your dick in that fan." or "hey jew, don't force your kids to stick thier dicks in a fan." That is what they are doing by forcing the kids to be a part of the bloodstained Zionist crusade, seeing as how it is the Zionist's own offenses that created the hostilities that get thier kids killed, scapegoating thier victims is just another nazi tactic used by Zionists sacrificing thier children for thier own gain. Have a nice day. Free Tibet. Free Palestine for the same damn reason. Screw Google.

I'm one of the guys who says murder is not a valid means to profit. I don't know why (unless your are just pulling off a character assasination ploy, popular among Zionists being payed with American dollars to spread nonsence on the web, are you being payed to write such asinine statements?) anyone would confuse me with a nazi, or a zionist, who do claim in both words (2 faced, below) and actions that murder is a valid means to profit. And a leftist? Death to Social Security. End the enslavment of children wh have NO vote to protect themselves from state sponsored servitud.

2 faced. I already wrote about nazi gold in swiss banks above. But, a few months ago, Jews from all over won the right to get life insurance claims from insurance companies paid after 60 years. A crime of theft from 60 years gets settled, the right for Palestinians to get justice from the Zionist's murderous thieving crimes of only 55 years ago, and all the thefts and murders since then, are still ignored. Again, Zionists, nazis, Zionists, nazis.

i recognise the style of rant, who else could it be
why the funny nick name? are you hiding from scottie
or are you letting gehrig cool down after your last debate?

any-way
have fun
"toodles"
cindy

When little minds come on the Board anything is possible. Vacant heads wander into our lives and leave us wondering from whenceforth he or she came, how totally inept at commentary he or she is, and we share a chuckle or two with our friends. What else can we do? Exactly.

Which, of course, is what I'm doing right now. Anyone -ANYONE - who would come on this Board and say I'm "the Troll" really needs to be examined not by a psychiatrist but a neurosurgeon. One has to assume that such inane prattling emanates from a brainless individual.

If people on this Board are not familiar with my style by now, they never will be.

Of course, some people can't distinguish between A and B, can't add 1 + 1, and have nothing better to do than irritate. And where do they go to irritate? Right here, my friends. We see them all the time.

Hiding from Scottie? And the reason being? Yes, poor Scottie really leaves me quaking here at my computer!

Did this poster also mention Mr. Gehrig? Well, now that's most curious because no one, least of all myself, would have any reason to mention Mr. Gehrig if he didn't feel it essential to toss me into his ramblings re the WW creature yesterday.

I would have assumed he could speak for himself, although obviously the identity of WW is so secretive, no one wants to divulge same.

But (grinning here) when or if I ever change my name on this Board, it will certainly not be to "Troll". Imaginative it surely is not. And believe me I shall be good enough to tell you all in advance.

However, if, in due course, we learn the identity of this individual, I will expect a damn apology from the likes of the poster above.

"And I am not a leftist, I am liberatrian (more so than the party, so I dumped them too)."

I am just pointing out it is cookie cut. (to point out that you were insulting leftists would be irrelevant particularly since I am not a rightist anyway) but you made my point.... angie and most of the other people here are not libiterians they are socialists. And as such the liberterians are the boogey men.

"So, your distraction from what I wrote is meaningless to me."

that is because you did not understand it.

"The thing with liberals is that they are more liberal (open minded) and capable of dejecting horseshit ideals, such as, Zionists have a right to murder and steal and it is not offensive to finance the Zionist's bloodstained crusade."

Your still doing it. read my post above feel free to replace those words with "liberterians" if you want.

"Guilt by mythical association?"

I use comparison to absurdity often. you will note that is what you are doing with zionism and nazis etc etc

" It was the one with the rats running around, and the nazi comentary saying that Jews were like rats, they will move into your homeland, breed like rats, and when thier numbers are great enough, like all parasitic entities, they will destroy thier chosen hoast. Well, since that is just what ZIonists did in palestine, not everything Nazis said about some Jews is automaticly wrong, is it?"

did I say bigot?.. racist? hmmm you are certainly walking a fine line. This is verging on email to "one of the editors" stuff.

And "Death to Social Security"?? crazy damn liberterians

" I don't know why ... anyone would confuse me with a nazi"

did you read your own post?
Still I was not talking to you I was talking to angie I was saying that you had some unsavoury ideas i was not saying they belonged to any particular classification of unsavoury ideas. that they are bad is bad enough.

Hang on a second, my laddie.

You stated the following above:

"Angie and most of the other people here are not libiterians, they are socialists".

I am? We are?

Gee, I was labouring under the impression that I was a wee lass from Canada who simply wants a just and dignified peace for the peoples of the world.

How is it possible that I didn't know about this?

being a troll, to me, is like being an artist. I don't care if what I write makes you feel mad or sad or happy. I just want it to make you feel. I've given up on hoping it makes you think, since thinking people are a rarity, when you live in a society where thinking for yourself is challenged at every step. "oh you don't follow the herd, you must be wrong, you must be evil." Beware of stupid people in large numbers.
If I could have my dream job, I would be a court jester. Forget the great clothes and dancing around making a fool of yourself, even those are great selling points for jesters. It is because the court jesters could get away with saying just about anything (like I do anyway). It was the jester's job to point out when the king (now the ignorant voters) was being played (used by spwecial intrests). A court jester had great influence on the king (now, the ignorant voters), wich is why us trolls are always facing vacant slander by evil creeps who think murder is a valid means to profit, but fail miserably when faced with a jester speeking the truth. Hell, they don't even condescend to fail debating a good troll, they sidestep, scapegoat, slander, this and that, just about everything BUT confront the truth when presented to them.

If "TheTroll" shows a lack of imagination, how about "TheJester?" It is the same thing to me. I am everything but un-imaginative. My intuative nature has saved my soul from following the lies of Zionists. If you had the nerve to NOT lie to yourselves, you to might be saved too. The truth shall set you free.

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings there, ole chap, by more or less stating that name "the troll" is not imaginative.

I mean, what is "imaginative"? It might mean one thing to you, another to me.

Keep you name. I don't care, just please advise these brainless ones out there that I am not you, that you are not me, whatever. Thank you, sir.

I invite you to take the position to my right then. there is lots of room there. if your a libertarian there is an entire ocean for you to swim in.
still I got the impression from a previous post that you voted left (as opposed to right) last election did you not? (you seemed to indicate the right leaning party was extreemly bad).

How long ago and far away was that post at all? I'm astonished you remember it. It even included a wee joke by one of our Judges, I remember.

I am not saying I'm not a socialist or a libiterian or anything else, really. All I'm pointing out to you is, and the purpose of my comment to you was, merely to say that I'm not into titles or labels. That's something else you must remember from all our exchanges.

Yes, the opposition party, such as it is, is in denial. He's so far to the right he'd fit right in with GWB et al. The leader of our other opposition party is someone only his family ever heard about (partial joke there).

Just goes to show i pay attention. But ask me where i left my socks and I will stare at you blankly.

OK in good spirits ill refrain from labeling you then particularly since i also dislike simplistic labeling.

You know angie it seems to be a thing in the world today. We seem to have a number of leaders of opposition parties around the world that fall into the
'so vapid/insipent that they could go to their own party conference and be given a supporters pack." catagory
Is he one of those?

Certainly if the chap who was just elected head of the PC party went anywhere, no one would know who he was or why he was there. They'd probably tell him he's not allowed in, giggle.

But there is never such a thing as "right" and "left". Those on the right have their elements that want to move even further to the right; those on the left have their elements that want to move further left. I expect that's a universal characteristic.

Angie (above) said: Keep you name. I don't care, just please advise these brainless ones out there that I am not you, that you are not me, whatever. Thank you, sir.

AngieCorrector says: People who lacked a brain would be unable to function or live, let alone operate a computer and express thoughts. Therefore, everyone posting here has a brain. Some brains here may be more powerful/knowledgable/able than others, but in fact, technically, everyone here has a brain.

Just trying to help. Thanks and have a great day.

I'm afraid you'll have to prove that.

Hamas Claims Two Deadly Bombings
Two suicide bombers set off separate explosions Tuesday in Israel, killing themselves and at least 13 other people. The militant group Hamas, which had been expected to launch new attacks

Notice ,
Racist Anti-zionist Censors complain of being censored !!

If you look around on this hate site - You can found lots of antizio's whining about being "censored" by the evil "zionists".
It’s mad, since at the same time themselves censor EVERYTHING what they disagree with .
LOL

There is no shortage of irony in the fact that the wingnut Anti-zionist right wingers (since ALL neo-nazis and other right wingers are virulent
anti-zionist racist, ALL anti-zionists are right wing bigots) on other anti-racist site are complaining of being censored.

Shame on you, fascist-antizionist editors.
. Didn't your momma ever teach you any manners?

"We agreed that zionazi could be considered hate speech".

"Zionazi" is a descriptive part of the lexicon that clarifies the real nature of zionism.

"Zionazi" is NOT hate speech, it is free speech.

The moment you let down your guard and failed to defend free speech was your undoing. You should never have caved.

And if you "had" to cave, why didn't you simply tell Google, "Thank you, sir, may I please have another?"

Sorry, NO sympathy.

>""Zionazi" is a descriptive part of the lexicon that clarifies the real nature of zionism."

What a crock of shit. It's a hateful slur which is very inaccurate describing Zionism's real nature.

But anyhow, let's see...if 'Zionazi' is legitimate as part of free speech, are you willing to acknowledge 'Palestinazi' as legit too?
This term has frequently been used on other IMC's by anti-Palestinians.

I maintain the Palestinian national movement has always been much closer to Nazism in both spirit and deeds than Zionism ever has.

It accurately describes the true nature of Zionism. Zionism is racism. It's good to hate racists.

It is hateful because it's intentionally designed to be particularly wounding to Jews. Dubya was condemned by Muslims for his tonedeafness in referring to his war in Afghanistan as a "crusade," oblivious to the specifically painful implications of the word to Muslims. Recognizing the truth of that argument, the White House doesn't do that any more.

The same argument is true of "Zionazi," except that rather than being a matter of simple cluelessness, it's _intended_ to be specifically painful to Jews. It's not even accidental; those who use it that way _know_ they're using it because Jews find it specifically historically painful in a way gentiles don't.

Is it really the goal of Indybay to be more tonedeaf than the Bush White House? If so, would the editors please promulgate an official list of ways in which, like the use of the word "Zionazi," it is officially okay to make remarks specifically designed to offend the Jews?

@%<

It is not designed to be particularly wounding to Jews. It is designed to be particularly wounding to Zionists, most of whom are Christians.

"It is not designed to be particularly wounding to Jews."

Keep telling yourself that. Keep telling yourself that it's just a coincidence, just a funny little coincidence, that people trying to demonstrate their hatred of the Jewish state just coincidentally happen to choose an analogy, what a coincidence, that involves the murder of one third of the world's Jews. What a coincidence! Extraordinary coincidence, isn't it.

And, natch, when you're told _why_ a person who eschews race-based name calling would consider it morally commendable to avoid "Zionazi," you naturally insist that you know better whether or not it's an race-based slur than the people the slur is pointed against.

Granted, it's not exactly like it's news that you've got a blind spot on this.

"It is designed to be particularly wounding to Zionists, most of whom are Christians."

Then you simply aren't paying attention to how it's being used. Wakey wakey. Track the usage for a while and see how many times it's being used against Israelis or their specifically Jewish supporters. Just watch for a while. Your illusions will fall away.

@%<

The SF IMC is a fradulent, two-faced organization. On the one hand, they criticize Google for censoring their use of a hateful, racist word (as if somehow one has the "right" to be on Google...). Then, they remove any posting to their website that they do not agree with. Ever wonder why all these "comments" agree with the extremist views of this fraudulent center? That's because all the dissenting views are deleted from the site by SF IMC itself. Don't believe me? Try it. Try posting a comment in opposition to one of their exremist views, and check back a few hours later.

You guys are phonies. What you don't know is that this downturn in the economy has been designed by the vast right-wing conspiracy to drive people like you out of prosperous places like the bay area.

I'm not Angie. I am not nessie. I am Scottie. Yep, I take that name to post the most assinine crap so that I can return as TheTroll and stomp on all the stupid rationalizations I write as Scottie. Not really, but at least that conspiracy theory is imaginative.

Recall Harry Belafonti calling colin Powell an uncle tom. Not to me, he isn't. He is more the red neck sharrif type. Regarding the Anti-racism conference in Durban south africa and the true role of the "policeman of the World" which democraps and Republitrash champion, a few months before 911. Colin Powell, the represented Chief of Police for the World Policeman, walks out as soon as Muslims start talking of the Zionist Crusade. Imagine, a black family has a problem with some white nieghbors and calls the cops. It doesn't matter what the offense, when the red neck sharriff shows up, the black family, who actually called for the help of the trusted police get to watch as the cop goes right to the white family and writes down everyword they say. then the redneck Shariff goes to the black family and says that the black family better not make anymore trouble in the future. Yes, Powell is the red neck sharrif type. But, at least he didn't pull a nightstick and beat the crap out of the Arabs wanting justice for Palestinians. At least the supporters of the democrap and republitrash perversion of the "policeman of the world" role of prejudiced polititians (who choose what is justice for whom by the votes and campain contrabutions) can be proud that Powell didn't pull out the night stick. that is about all they have to be proud of.

Justice. A just resolution of the "conflict" (Zionist crusade in palestine). here is an example. If your grandfather stole your nieghbor's car, and gave it to your father, who then gave it to you, it doesn'[t matter how much you spent keeping the car in good running order, when a cop pulls you over for speeding, you will not be driving the car home, and you might go to jail. Even if the statute of limitations has run out, you don't get to keep the car, that just means you will not go to jail. The victims of the theft or thier descendants would get the car back.
And if your grandfather murdered your nieghbor for the car....well, there is no statute of limitations for murderous theft. If your grandfather is still is alive, he will be going to jail, maybe even getting the death panalty. That is Justice in American. justice many would deny Palestinians because of tier own prejudice. "Oh, other alleged christians were evil to other jews, so America's alleged christians (unmistakable wolves in sheep's clothing) think that helping Zionists murder Palestiniansand steal the palestinian's survivor's homeland will be good for thier souls." Pretty stupid, since Jesus ordered us to treat Palestinians, and all people, as we would have them treat us. If Zionists were commiting thier murderous thieving crimes in America, I wouldn't want Palestinians giving them weapons. And I can't imagine many people laying down thier arms and letting the Zionists murder and steal in America. And I can't imagine anyone here mistaking offenses of Zionists as defending themselves. That would take a hundred years of Zionists lies brainwashing you, and in just a few short years, the internet has destroyed a hundred years of Zionist lies. Truth has real power to lead. While the weakness of the Zionist's lies leaves them with scapegoating and slander and threats.

But, Palestinians don't have thier own "state", with diplomatic recognition of the western power brokers. So Palestinians sit and listen to the self appoined (by democraps and republitrash) policeman of the world say they better not make anymore trouble in the future as Zionists murder and steal in palestine with funds from the policeman of the world. Kind of like the red neck sharrif giving the white family a nightstick and a few minutes to beat down those uppity palestinians who refuse to just role over and die. Black folks know what "no justice, no peace" means. To bad many vote for Democraps.

Zionists born in Zionist occupied Palestine have the right to walk away from the stolen property, not any right to keep it. The Zionists who moved to palestine to join the bloodstained crusade made a conscious choice to be an accomplice to the murderous theft, and should face thier crimes, but not in the court of public opinion, where they try to silence the truth and people who present the truth and really want a "just" solution, by using slander and intimidation (like the redneck sharriff, how can anyone be proud of him?). But not letting ignorant prejudice set the rules is justice, and justice is not on the democraps and republicans agenda as long as they can buy the special intrest crusader votes with the blood of Palestinians. People claim they want a just solution to the conflict (zionist offenses), but not really. they are as 2 faced as Google.

"All that we want is for our story to be heard." Zionists been tossing that one around as long as I can remember. But, all they really want is for part of thier story to be heard, and if anyone tells the rest, go one the offensive (I know, Zionists can't tell the difference between offensive and defensive, so, "go on the defesive" for the pre-judge-mental), call them anti-semetic jew haters, get them fired and blabkballed, threaten them, etc. Just don't let them hear the facts.

If there is a nice way to call Zionists "murderous thieves", then lets hear it. If Zionists don't like being compaired to nazis, maybe they should stop being comparable to nazis. that "murder is a valid means to profit" crap in thier words and actions, and the scapegoating of thier victims, are just 2 of the give aways. Evil is as evil does. Witnessing against criminals is an order to Jews in Leviticus 5:1.

Care to tell us to which part of the website you "move" the comments you disagree with?

I know for a fact that many of the messages I posted around the time of the Iraq war protests were deleted from the page in a matter of hours. Some were even MODIFIED from what I originally wrote to turn my rational arguments into hateful slurs.

You people can't stand on the feet of reason, so you have to resort to tactics like this. The rest of the bay area laughs at you.

"Regarding the Anti-racism conference in Durban south africa and the true role of the "policeman of the World"
Imagine, a black family has a problem with some white nieghbors and calls the cops. It doesn't matter what the offense, when the red neck sharriff shows up, the black family, who actually called for the help of the trusted police"

Your analogy is irrelevant since A) you critisized the US's role as policeman of the world. that means you want there to be no police not some perfect US as a policeman. Basically your analogy doesnt match our argument.

"Justice. A just resolution of the "conflict" (Zionist crusade in palestine). here is an example. If your grandfather stole your nieghbor's car, and gave it to your father, who then gave it to you, it doesn't matter how much you spent keeping the car in good running order, when a cop pulls you over for speeding, you will not be driving the car home, and you might go to jail."

Just about everything you own is in some way the product of murderous theft as any anarchist around here would tell you. Besides you are misinterpreting the purpose of LAW.

"That is Justice in American."

I am supportive of finding remedies for individual events one at a time. But NOT collectively - to do it collectively would be racist. However you are not including all the other parts of the situation which would often result in the car being kept by the person who bought it in other countries.

The URL is posted on the front page, lower right corner.

So do you have any idea just how ignorant you have exposed yourself to be, "concerned citizen"?

http://www.indybay.org/news/?display=f

My dear troll:

I appreciate you bravely coming on the board here and confirming you were not "Angie". Of course you are not. You know much more than I!!! I'm going to read your entire piece there now and have more comments later.

Angie

My analogy is relivant since A, I critisize the redneck sharriff selling out his job and creating an atmosphere that, in the same as blacks rioting for justice, created the hatred that has been getting Americans targeted by terrorists for decades, not just 911, decades. That is hardly the same as wanting no police, doncha think? Do you think? Or do you just parrot out what the Zionist script of lies talking points says to say? and I hope there are people who are not so prejudiced as to think that your analogy has any substance. Again, you are providing distracting supositions in another failed attemtp to discredite me. A character assasination, if you will. And that is offensive, not a part of any reasoned testimony. Be proud of your prejudice. Noone else is.

A REAL American is one who does NOT sell out his fellow Americans for thier own gain (political gain in the case of Democraps and Republitrash selling out our peace for Zionist supoorters votwes and campain contrabutions). And a real patriot is one who defends those Americans whom the anti-American sellouts are screwing over. A fair and just police man settles disputes by letting people have a fair say, the redneck sharriff just creates more evil by being an enabler of crimes. All that is necesary for evil to exist, is for good people to remain silent. Odd, here is anouther paralel you can use to compare Zionists and nazis.

Bought it in other countries, you mean Zionists buying land that the 48ers murdered for, right? I believe I mentioned above how Schindler buying a Pole's factory, from murderous thieving nazis before him for pennies on the dollar, did not give him any right to the factory. If Zioniosts are special in that demention, lets hear it. Your turn. But, for the analogy, if you buy a stolen car, that others murdered for, when you get pulled over, you get to spend all the time you like convincing the cops you are not the murderous thief. And IF you can do that, you still don't get to keep the car, do you? Not in a land that provides for justice for all. The victims survivors would still get the car. But ZIonists moving in after the 48ers murdered for the land knew damn well they were buying stolen property, just like schindler. They have no legal claim to Palestinian lands either. well, under American law they don't. But, allowing the palestinians the same protections you would DEMAND for yourself is too much to ask. But, Democraps and Republitrash financeing the Palestinians destruction (still an offensive action) so they can buy a special intrest group's support (regardless of how many Americans this gets killed in the politians selling out of America), seems not to be too much to ask or get. It was not until 3000 American died at once did Americans wake up to the fact that polititians helping Zionists murder and steal (for thier own gain, both in a symbiotic relationship, Billions to Zionists and millions to polititians, anouther great offer, for them, not the American taxpayeras or the victims of the hatred the offense of supporting the ZIonist's crimes created) is offensive.

If you can't be a real patriot, can't you just be a real American? Remaining silent makes you an emabler. As long as Zionists think they have a right to murder and steal, they are not going to think twice about gunning down the next little Palestinian kid. And as long as political whores think they can use American taxes to buy the religious fanatic crusader votes and create the hatred that has been getting Americans killed for decades, then they are not going to think twice about reloading the gun that the Zionists just unloaded into Palestinians. What is the difference between Maryland and palestine? When a Sniper guns down people in Maryland, the democrats and republicans can't buy anyones votes by reloading the gun. I know, it is a sick joke. But, it is an even sicker reality. Time to wake up. You been asleep for quite a while. Too much TV I bet.

My analogy is relivant since A, I critisize the redneck sharriff selling out his job and creating an atmosphere that, in the same as blacks rioting for justice, created the hatred that has been getting Americans targeted by terrorists for decades, not just 911, decades. That is hardly the same as wanting no police, doncha think? Do you think? Or do you just parrot out what the Zionist script of lies talking points says to say? and I hope there are people who are not so prejudiced as to think that your analogy has any substance. Again, you are providing distracting supositions in another failed attemtp to discredite me. A character assasination, if you will. And that is offensive, not a part of any reasoned testimony. Be proud of your prejudice. Noone else is.

A REAL American is one who does NOT sell out his fellow Americans for thier own gain (political gain in the case of Democraps and Republitrash selling out our peace for Zionist supoorters votwes and campain contrabutions). And a real patriot is one who defends those Americans whom the anti-American sellouts are screwing over. A fair and just police man settles disputes by letting people have a fair say, the redneck sharriff just creates more evil by being an enabler of crimes. All that is necesary for evil to exist, is for good people to remain silent. Odd, here is anouther paralel you can use to compare Zionists and nazis.

Bought it in other countries, you mean Zionists buying land that the 48ers murdered for, right? I believe I mentioned above how Schindler buying a Pole's factory, from murderous thieving nazis before him for pennies on the dollar, did not give him any right to the factory. If Zioniosts are special in that demention, lets hear it. Your turn. But, for the analogy, if you buy a stolen car, that others murdered for, when you get pulled over, you get to spend all the time you like convincing the cops you are not the murderous thief. And IF you can do that, you still don't get to keep the car, do you? Not in a land that provides for justice for all. The victims survivors would still get the car. But ZIonists moving in after the 48ers murdered for the land knew damn well they were buying stolen property, just like schindler. They have no legal claim to Palestinian lands either. well, under American law they don't. But, allowing the palestinians the same protections you would DEMAND for yourself is too much to ask. But, Democraps and Republitrash financeing the Palestinians destruction (still an offensive action) so they can buy a special intrest group's support (regardless of how many Americans this gets killed in the politians selling out of America), seems not to be too much to ask or get. It was not until 3000 American died at once did Americans wake up to the fact that polititians helping Zionists murder and steal (for thier own gain, both in a symbiotic relationship, Billions to Zionists and millions to polititians, anouther great offer, for them, not the American taxpayeras or the victims of the hatred the offense of supporting the ZIonist's crimes created) is offensive.

If you can't be a real patriot, can't you just be a real American? Remaining silent makes you an emabler. As long as Zionists think they have a right to murder and steal, they are not going to think twice about gunning down the next little Palestinian kid. And as long as political whores think they can use American taxes to buy the religious fanatic crusader votes and create the hatred that has been getting Americans killed for decades, then they are not going to think twice about reloading the gun that the Zionists just unloaded into Palestinians. What is the difference between Maryland and palestine? When a Sniper guns down people in Maryland, the democrats and republicans can't buy anyones votes by reloading the gun. I know, it is a sick joke. But, it is an even sicker reality. Time to wake up. You been asleep for quite a while. Too much TV I bet.

What so wrong about Google removing SF-IMC from their website. As much as you lefties might hate it, it is not censorship. As a private company, google has the right, given them by the constitution of this country, to express the views that they want to express. If you don't like what they deem proper content, then go post somewhere else. If you insist that they post material that they view as offensive or as hate speech, then prepare yourselves for others telling you what you can and cannot post on your web site.

Realist, you're partly right.

The First Amendment DOES guarantee Google the right to post what it wants.

And that same First Amendment guarantees the right to protest against their decision. So forget about repression.

The appropriate response for IMC is not to lie down and take it, but to initiate an effective alternative to Google by indexing all independent sites. In the long run, this might be more beneficial to progress than IMC itself.

Fox News has on the current embasador from the Zionists crusader State, and the last Ambasador from the Zionist crusader state, and one of the Fox News talking heads agreeing with everything the 2 Zionists have to say, and then Fox News files a suit against Al Franken for using the phrase "fair and balenced." I love the ironic as much as I love sharing the ironic. Forget the suit against Al Franken, when does Fox News face charges of false advertising?

...about a year ago, (I'm lousy with dates, though I could dig through my notes if you insist), there was an bomb attack on a Zionist busload of Zionist crusaders in the west bank. The Zionists got out, and saw individual palestinians dressed as IDF shooting at them. MSNBC showed a video from one of the survivors. He told how he saw what he thought were IDF shooting at him and shouted, "DON"T SHOOT, WE ARE JEWS", as if a busload of Palestinians blowing up were fair game for IDF to shoot at seconds after the explosion. Needless to say, wanting the clip, I turned on the VCR. Needless to say, MSNBC did NOT rerun the video. I can just imagine the Zionist public relations flacks jumping to the phones and telling MSNBC NOT to run the video, even though it showed what Zionists feel about thier war of conquest. What others let us see IS a factor in our understanding.

In case there's a doubt, I'm addressing the person who posted under "stop the zionazis".

You haven't answered what I asked you. Don't you cower and avoid the issue. My question was:
if 'Zionazi' is legitimate as part of free speech, are you willing to acknowledge 'Palestinazi' as legit too?
Awaiting your reply.

What a pile of brainwashed drivel. What a totally unbelievable piece of distortion, misinformation, you name it.

If I weren't falling asleep here right now, I'd have a lot more to say about this.

There is a moron here, all right, but it sure as hell isn't Nessie!

I vouch for the validity of what that guy/gal claims. The fact you and your like minded pals don't believe it is a pity. If you could only temporarily unclog your anti-Israeli brainwashed mind...

Nesie is definitely the moron.

I'm glad you're falling asleep...at least you won't make a fool of yourself for the next few hours...

.... that not even one wee brain could carry all he knows!!

Unless, of course, said brain is miniscule, and then even that's stretching it.

angie/troll/ja/ what ever else you want to call your self today.
YOU..NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR INDY GETTING KICKED OFF GOOGLE, YOU,JA AND SOME OF YOUR OTHER PERSONALITIES HAVE POSTED SOME OF THE MOST OFFENSIVE THINGS THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN ON THE INTERNET!

AND THE FACT THAT S/F INDY HAS REFUSED TO BAD YOUR POSTS ONLY SERVES TO PROVE THAT GOOGLE WAS RIGHT IN ITS POSITION THAT THIS IS A WEB SIGHT FOR SUDO-INTELLECTUALS AND MINDLESS RADICALS TO SPEW HATRED AND BIGOTRY. (AS SEEN DAILY IN YOUR POSTS)
SO WHEN YOU READ ABOUT (Google News Bans SF Indymedia Over Israel/Palestine Controversy) KNOW THAT IT WAS BECOUSE OF YOUR POSTS

From: Marc Sapir

Subject: Google censors SF Indymedia

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003

Dear Google News:

I was amazed to read of your unwarranted censorship of IndyMedia. My response is the following. I am sending this e-mail to 50 people for starters, more lists later if you do not correct the matter. Second, perhaps only symbolic, I will stop using Google as my main search engine and will go back to Yahoo or others. Please be advised that our democracy is not for sale, nor can it be coercively removed by pressure from extremist Zionists who think that Israel should be allowed to act with impunity against a defenseless population. I am a Jew, born and raised during the Holocaust.

Dr. Marc Sapir, MD, MPH

From: Marc Sapir

Subject: Google censors SF Indymedia

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003

Dear Google News:

I was amazed to read of your unwarranted censorship of IndyMedia. My response is the following. I am sending this e-mail to 50 people for starters, more lists later if you do not correct the matter. Second, perhaps only symbolic, I will stop using Google as my main search engine and will go back to Yahoo or others. Please be advised that our democracy is not for sale, nor can it be coercively removed by pressure from extremist Zionists who think that Israel should be allowed to act with impunity against a defenseless population. I am a Jew, born and raised during the Holocaust.

Dr. Marc Sapir, MD, MPH

There are times when we respond to posts directed to us or about us.

Obviously this is not one of those times.

Zionazi and "Palestinazi" are not equivalent terms.

Zionist + Nazi = Zionazi

Palestinian + Nazi = "Palestinazi"

The first term - zionazi - appropriately compares one nationalist fascist ideology of master race hatred, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid (zionism) with another nationalist fascist ideology of master race hatred, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid (nazism).

Remember, both zionism and nazism emerged from the same early 20th Century milieu that brought on other national fascist movements, including Romania's Iron Guards, Mussolini's fascists, Portugal's Alazar and Spain's Franco.

The second "term" - "Palestinazi" - attacks not an ideology, but a people, by asserting that a particular ethnic group is "nazi".

Zionism is the name of an ideology of total hate. Thus, .there are more Christian zionists than there are Jewish zionists.. Even if there were more Jewish zionists, the fact remains that real Jews are not zionists (see http://www.jewsnotzionists.org and http://www.netureikarta.org ).

Zionazi has been in use in the Left since at least the 60s (when I first heard it used). Obviously, nazis would not like their own ideology of hate to be compared with the zionist version. So besides pointing to all the obvious similarities between zionists and nazis, another function of the term zionazi is to convey utter contempt for the hate ideology that is zionism while clearly expressing opposition to zionism's sister doctrine, nazism. And it was precisely in that context that I first heard it used.

I..need to take responsability for indy being kicked off Google. And somehow, Palestinians get blaimed for hostilities in the war of conquest Zionists created.

I..have posted some of the most offensive things that -thank you angie- has seen on the internet, Like, "Zionists have no right to murder and steal" is somehow offensive. Or, that democraps and republitrash using public funds to finance the destruction of palestine is an offensive action (no matter how many lies you hear or repeat) and making me, not just forced to live apart of Jesus' ORDER to treat palestinians as I would have them treat me (and baring false witness against them, to me, is not an option, as is financing the Zionist's murderouas theft of Palestine). "offensive." How, exactly? How is promoting the general welfare (my welfare) of Americans and not endangering Americans (me) by exalting the Zionist's crusade ( dual loyalty, dis-loyalty, since no man can serve 2 masters, and Zionist lies will never make me see thier wrongs as rights again) offensive? I really don't know how. Tell me. But making me a target of terrorism ends up as my fault too, I guess. I'm sure you are working on that psudo-theory, if you don't already have one. Scuz me. Piss down my back, and call me ungraetfull. But like I pointed out, Zionists don't know the difference between offensive and defensive. And don't want you to know the difference either. So, naturaly, it is my fault. It is not the Zionists fault. The TV tells us that. But, as long as religious fanatics force us to finance a bloodstained crusade, I am going to complain. "How dare you?" is a question that comes to mind. And then you blaim me for even talking about the crimes of Zionists against palestinians. "Offensive?" If you wash your own laundry, you might NEVER see a skidmark. If you wash somebody else's laundrey, you ARE going to see them ALL. So don't just hand me your dirty laundrey and then have the nerve to act suprised and "offended" when I complain about ALL THAT SHIT! ASSHOLE! Ooop, was asshole offensive, even though it is called for 100%? Scapegoating me reminds me of the offensive (non-Zionist definition) tactics of anouther tribe of murderous thieves. they are scattered now, as bands of murderous thieves should be.

This is an abusrd, baseless lie: "Zionism is the name of an ideology of total hate."

This is the truth: Zionism is the name of a political movement created in the late 1800's when many jews, who had been treated horribly in far too much of the world, realized that the only way they might get a fare shake on this earth would be if they rallied together and built tons of communities together and built up a little state of their own, in a corner of a TERRITORY that was not yet an actual country or state.

Some "zionists" may be assholes, and some israeli leaders who are zionists may be jerks, but that doesn't change the facts.

It is also extremely dishonest to claim that some zionists who are not jewish may dislike muslims that somehow that means that zionism itself is wrong. Just as there can be democrats or republicans, or muslims or christians, who may be assholes, but that in itself does not prove in any way that democratic or republican ideas, or muslim or christian ideas, are therefore wrong.

Jews, after being kicked around for way too long, started zionism and flocked to israel to build communities up and establish a state. 80% of the TERRITORY called Palestine became Jordan. Israel was on part of the remaining 20%.

Furthermore, to your average everyday educated jewish person, zionism isn't the things you claim it is. To demonize zionism in the manner you do is (1) dishonest and (2) going to accomplish nothing but make regular normal jews who want israel to exist and be safe battle against you, while the true assholes and evil people on this earth will sit back and laugh at you for wasting your time.

Unless, of course, you're just an anti-semite hiding under the "anti-zionist" mask. Which isn't always the case, but it's pretty common.

Kurdistan is not an actual country or state either. Does that mean Zionists have a right to murder Kurds and steal thier survivor's homeland? No. Turks were stopped from taking over Iraqi kurdistan when bush invaded Iraq with America's defensive (Zionist definition) might. But Palestine, somehow, because they were occupied by Britts after world war 1, instead of being allowed to become independent, are some how a legitimat target of Zionist agressions. Palestine + Zionists = Israel + dead palestinians = Palestinian refugees. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand. But it does take prejudice psycopathic hate to ignore.

Pegans have been burned at the stake along side of jews. Do Pegans also have a right to murder and steal, maybe in Costa Rica, as so many claim ZIonists have such a "BIRTHRIGHT" in palestine. let's not forget that before Christians burned Pegans, Jews stoned them to death. Where are the Hussites? Jan Huss, Czech. You know the story don't you? No. How odd.

Zionists did not steal a homeland. Jews built up communities in israel for decades, and the people who actually had full reign over the land (britian, who won it from the turks when the ottoman empire crumbled) allowed a jewish state to be formed by letting the UN decide.

Allowing the jewish population of an area to form a state, while allowing the muslim population of the area next door to also form a state is not "stealing land."

No land was "stolen" until wars were fought, and both jews and muslims in many places lost their land and homes.

80% of Palestine turned into JORDAN. That's a fact.
The 20% or so that remained was to become a jewish state and an arab state. The jews were fine with it. Arab countries rejected it, teamed up and tried to wipe out the jews.

Those are facts. Hurl your stupid propaganda all you want, you can't escape the facts, and you shouldn't TRY to, unless you're just dishonest and have a hateful agenda.

Furthermore, why is THeTroll now making retarded claims about what "the jews" were allegedly doing in other situations?

Also, thetroll said this nonsense: "But Palestine, somehow, because they were occupied by Britts after world war 1, instead of being allowed to become independent, are some how a legitimat target of Zionist agressions."

FACTUAL REALITY: Palestine was a TERRITORY that had been controlled for hundreds of years by other people. Syria and egypt controlled it. It was part of the ottoman empire for hundrds of years, controlled by turks. Then by Britain. Then, 80% of it was turned into an all-muslim no-jew state of Jordan. The remaining 20% was divided between israel and what should have become the first actual STATE called Palestine, except arabs, who controlled the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem from 1948 to 1967, chose to NOT form a state and instead just keep attacking israel. Failing, fortunately.

Read a damn history book. Thanks.

The term "Palestinazi" attacks an **ideology**. I'm at loss of ways to figure out why you established that term assails rather a people, but that's non important.

I don't care that Herzl and other conceivers of Zionism - most of whose currents are non-fascist - emerged from the same or approximate geographical location where fascist movements did.

Zionism is NOT a national ideology of Apartheid, much less master race hatred and ethnic cleansing and NOT a sister doctrine of Nazism. One must be a gullible individual severely brainwashed or hate driven to claim otherwise. You speak as an authority about a topic you know very little about. Or perhaps you do know much, which makes you a heavyweight hate monger.

You said: "...the fact remains that real Jews are not zionists."

Also NK are not an approved authority on either Judaism or Zionism. NK have appointed themselves the ultimate authority on Zionism and Judaism, but more than 60% of NK's ultra-Orthodox counterparts disagree with that nonsensical conclusion ("real Jews are not Zionists"). A Jew can believe in whichever ideology s/he wants, that doesn't make him/her more or less "real" than other Jews.

In closing, if "zionazi" is sanctioned by the principle of free speech, so is "Palestinazi"; "Zionazi" was conceived as a hateful and offensive slur and is very far from being accurate in describing Zionism's essence - notwithstanding your disaproval.

intrigued reader;

the posters you see here are the product of a liberal up bringing and a dysfunctional educational system.
they have little if any idea of world affairs other than what they hear at starbucks or on some radio station run from a closet. their little world is based mostly in the fantasy of appearing to be trendy for their peers.
they are only concerned with their reflection in the mirror.

thank you for attempting to educate the un-washed masses

To the poster who thanked me: thanks so much for your kind encouragement.

As for the remarks by poor "stop the zionazis", I must add:
*1* the term "zionazi" has been used to attack Zionist Jews (or even other non anti-Zionist Jews) just as much as for attacking the Zionist ideology, if not more. I've noted this from personal experience.
*2* Zionism emerged in the late 19th century, beginning from 1881 (in Russia) till the 1st Zionist Congress Conference in Basel, 1897.
Go back to school.

How many times do I have to say this? Most Zionists are not Jews. They're Christians.

Fact is Jews, Zionist or otherwise, have been called 'Zionazis'. You'll have to repeat what you want to as many times as you deem fit. I don't give a rat's ass about your delicate conscience.
Now take a goddamn load off your mind.

"We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by
procuring employment for it in the transit countries,while denying it any
employment in our own country .... expropriation and the removal of the poor
must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." -- Theodore Herzl (from
Rafael Patai, Ed. The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol I)

-

The question of what the Palestinians wanted was eventually settled by
Ze'ev Jabotinsky, a real nasty piece of work who was a big fan of Mussolini
and the founder of what was eventually to become Likud. He stated in 1926:

" ... the tragedy lies in the fact the there is a collision here between two
truths .... but our justice is greater. The Arabs is culturally backward,
but his instinctive patriotism is just as pure and noble as our own; it
cannot be bought, it can only be curbed ... force majeure."

He further stated in 1925:

"If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must
provide a garrison for the land, or find a benefactor who will maintain the
garrison on your behalf. ... Zionism is a colonizing adventure and,
therefore, it stands or falls on the question of armed forces."

First off, the very alias you've been using shows you're attacking people who you dub 'Zionazis''. I can't speak for others, yet hope you never thought you'd fool me. At any rate, I don't want to debate this matter anymore.

As to Herzl, one or a few negative ideas aren't a justifiable reason to tar all of his legacy with a broad brush.
Jabotinsky's opinions and movement had been a minority in Zionism and his radical ideas had been abandoned by Herut and Likud until 1977, when the latter won the Israeli elections.

Do you care to disclose the URL from which you quoted Jabotinsky?

Britts drawing lines in the sand does not make Palestinians any less of a nation. jordan, being created by britts placing complacent Jordanians (ones they could controle) as the leaders does not make palestinians any less of a nation. Nor does it give britts any right to promissing Palestine to Zionist invadors. Brittish and thier arabic speeking Muslim allies beat the Turks, then the britts and french stole the right the locals EARNED to rule themselves. And the britts, having made many loans from Zionist, paid back the debt with the Palestinians land in the balfour declaration. Again, this is psychopathic, when you see only your own profit and ignore the harm you bring to others. It is as if the Palestinians don't even matter to you in the slightest. Clearly psychopathic tendancies.

Only 3% of the Palestinians were Jews. Only 6% of palestine (not the Brittish created Jordan areas) was owned by Jews, including the land owned by the 3% of palestinian Jews, yet, Zionists get 1947 Judeo-christian dominated UN appeasment to occupy 55% of Palestine. So, if 49% of Palestine was taken by Zionists, then more when Arabic speeking nieghbors tried and failed to liberate that 49% of Palestine after the Zionist's offenses, with western power broker appeasment, then there clearly was a theft of the Palestinian's homeland, and there was also the MURDER of resisters of Zionist offenses.

here is one. After world war 2, the Netherlands was in pretty bad shape. It was one of the first countries invaded and last liberated. Retreating germans ransacked the place of food medicines, etc. They were in such a desparate need, that the US Army gave them 3 dozen trucks to take food and medicines to the battered people. Zionists stole the trucks and used them to transport the Zionist occupation forces to the mediterainian sea, where they got on ready ships heading to palestine. this not only proves the ZIonists liars when they claim the Zionists "emigrated", since it clearly demonstraits an organized coreographed effort of Zionists invading Palestine. It also shows the ZIonists character when they steal food and medicines from hungry sick Dutch people. When you are starving, there is a big difference between getting food today, and sometime next week, and when you are sick, there is a big difference between getting medicines today, and maybe getting them tomorrow. Such people usually are labeled "looters" and deserving of nothing more than a few feet of rope. But, Somehow, the ZIonists show up on the History Channel laughing about how clever they were to steal food and medicines from innocent dutch children to support thier own offenses against palestinians. They were LAUGHING, damn it. I saw this a few months after my grandmother died. When I was visiting her as a child, she told me how she and my mom sent care packeges to our kin in the netherlands. Some of our kin. About 1/4 of my Dutch kin were communists and the germans killed 1/3 to be sure not to miss any. maybe it is best that she never learned how Zionists stole her meager help to our battered family. But, don't worry, Zionists stole a few extra acers of land from palestinians in Jerusalem to make a park honoring the europeans who risked and lost thier lives to save Jews, so stabbing the Dutch in the back behind the sceen can... hmmmm. how does that make up for the crimes of Zionists against the Dutch? And laughing about thier crimes against the Dutch being used to further the Zionists clearly offensive transportation of occupation forces (innocent civilians in the media) towards Palestine didn't help the public persona of Zionists. Last year, I saw a guy on C-span talking about how several lands were proposed for a Jewish homeland. One of the lands was Libya. The talker made a joke about how well off the ZIonists would have been to get all the Libyan's oil. It was bad enough for him to laugh at his own joke, but everyone in the audience also laughed. Is there really something funny about Zionists murdering anybody and stealing anybodies land? I don't see it. But I do see the clearly psycopathic character eminating from every rationalization Zionists can come up with. And the extractable mineral salts in the dead sea have an estimated value (in the year 2000 dollars) of $3.5 trillion dollars. that is $3,500,000,000,000. One hell of a steal for the Zionists, who have been extracting the minerals for decades. A steal that doesn't get much air time in the media. Nore is the theft of billions of dollars in the pilgram tourist trade, that was also taken over by the zionist cartel. Then there is all the farm land stolen. And if Ron Goldman's life was valued at $25 million (half of the OJ settlement) then multiply all the Palestinians murdered by Zionist crusaders by $25 million, add all the palestinians wounded, all the land stolen with all the work time lost that would be included in a trial in America, etc and all the wealth of the Zionist invadors wouldn't even come close to restituion that palestinians should get. Even if the ZIonists were to leave right now, they would still need to work a decade of heavy labor to make good on what they already owe the Palestinians. But that would be in a just world, not in the world ruled by the court of public opinion, which is ruled by the media.

"Death to Israel" was the title of my first post on this story. It is still there for you to read, as of 11:10 friday night (damn! I'm missing southpark to make a point for you to understand or reject out of pre-judge-mentalism. I must be nuts.) So, is SFBA IMC what google claims? Or, is there something more? Is SFBA IMC wrong when confronted with Google charges? I haven't seen it. So, truth has been challenged. Your truth. Thier truth. My truth. The truth. And, the post "death to israel" remains.

I am putting SFBA IMC on the spot, aren't I? yep. Why the hell don't you kick it out? Is it because it doesn't break any of the rules of posting? I read the rules very closely. And nothing in the phrase "death to Israel" is offensive. Is it, when you read the post? The phrase, "Death to Israel," turns out to be a defensive phrase, doesn't it? But that runs counter to popular mis-perceptions, and we are so scared of going against the other lemmings. I saw that support of Bush's war is slumping, while the oposition to Bush's war has been flacid for months. Or, maybe it was the media and places like Google convincing me that your are limp all this time. I honestly don't know. DO YOU?

"An Intrigued Reader" above appears to be the only person here who is not deadset on twisting words, pulling ridiculous quotes out of context, and basically spewing dishonest stuff to spread their agenda of hate.

Educated people on this earth know why zionism was created, and what the main goals were behind it, and the main goals today. And there is nothing wrong or negative or evil about its goals then or now. The day palestinians as a whole no longer care about wiping israel out is the day that "the zionists" don't bother the palestinians anymore.

why Zionism was created. Well, nazis don't have a homeland either. And since both think and act as if murder is a valid means to profit, both can go to hell. Tell a lie long enough, and Zionists will claim murder IS a valid means to profit, like that other tribe of Nazis.

Some Sumarian lord promissed his second son brother, the lands of the Canaanites. Moses turned the promise into a cult of murderous theft (deuteronomy chapter 20) which obviously still has followers today, the proof being the ZIonist's bloodstained (bloodsoaked, I like them both to make a point that building your home on the rubel of other people's homes, which you murdered to steal, is not kosher to the lowest of our speciese) conquest of palestine. Psychopathic to the core.

Look, you are trying to claim that a jewish country having a right to exist is the same thing as Zionists having a right to murder Palestinians and steal the palestinian's homeland. Those are 2 compleatly different suppositions.

"Palestinians want to drive Israel into the sea." That sounds offensive. BUT, "Palestinians want to drive the murderous thieving ZIonist invadors of palestine (Palestine + Zionists = Israel, makes it pretty clear to all who don't follow the devil , the author of all lies, who is the offening party) out of Palestine", is clearly defensive, even if your TV set god tells you otherwise. No matter what you hear or mindlessly repeat, murderous thieves have no "birthright" to murder and steal, even if the TV says Zionists do.

I find is sort of amusing and very ironic that Indy Media is being banned for not being politically correct. The Indy Media crowd are the ones that wanted to expand the concept of what defined hate speach. While being a moderate left winger, I find the concept of politically correct speach repulsive and when taken to extreme to be bad for free speach. You can thank Berkeley and Liberal American colleges for this stupid stupid trend.

This was a story about how SF indymedia was banned over "zionazi." My first post is titled "death to Israe." On the surface, that title should be championed by Google as a prime example of why the critisism of thier banning SF indymedia is not legitimate. It has been up for 9 days now (monday, 15). But, Google hasn't said a word about it the title I chose. Is "death to israel" not offensive? If you read the post, you will see it is not offensive, and that "Israel has a right to exist" is the real offensive psychopathic hate speech.

>The Indy Media crowd are the ones that wanted to expand the concept of what defined hate speach.

All Indymedia has done is made the editorial decision to place some things in one part of the site and other things in a different part.

No newspapert on earth prints every letter to the editor. No newspaper on earth publishes every article that is submitted to it, let alone puts it on the front page. Why should Indymedia?

>I find is sort of amusing and very ironic that Indy Media is being banned for not being politically correct. The Indy Media crowd are the ones that wanted to

By posting here, you yourself are part of the "Indy Media crowd."

Good news. I just searched for this article on Google news censoring indymedia in the Google News index and found it!

See http://makeashorterlink.com/?E14D218E5 Another crisis resolved (maybe) . . .

/ml

1. Google's immortal cookie:
Google was the first search engine to use a cookie that expires in 2038. This was at a time when federal websites were prohibited from using persistent cookies altogether. Now it's years later, and immortal cookies are commonplace among search engines; Google set the standard because no one bothered to challenge them. This cookie places a unique ID number on your hard disk. Anytime you land on a Google page, you get a Google cookie if you don't already have one. If you have one, they read and record your unique ID number.

2. Google records everything they can:
For all searches they record the cookie ID, your Internet IP address, the time and date, your search terms, and your browser configuration. Increasingly, Google is customizing results based on your IP number. This is referred to in the industry as "IP delivery based on geolocation."

3. Google retains all data indefinitely:
Google has no data retention policies. There is evidence that they are able to easily access all the user information they collect and save.

4. Google won't say why they need this data:
Inquiries to Google about their privacy policies are ignored. When the New York Times (2002-11-28) asked Sergey Brin about whether Google ever gets subpoenaed for this information, he had no comment.

5. Google hires spooks:
Matt Cutts, a key Google engineer, used to work for the National Security Agency. Google wants to hire more people with security clearances, so that they can peddle their corporate assets to the spooks in Washington.

Matthew Cutts CV
Cutts' CV page (he's now removed it) http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts/personal/resume.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010121230800/http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts /personal/resume.html
Matt Cutts cutts [at] cs.unc.edu http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts

CB#3175,
Sitterson Hall
UNC-Chapel Hill
Chapel Hill,
NC 27599
(919) 962-1708

EDUCATION
M.S. Computer Science, May 1998 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill GPA: 3.94
B.S. Computer Science and Mathematics, May 1995 University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY GPA: 4.0 Graduated summa cum laude with departmental honors in both computer science and mathematics. Received Maurice Clay award for outstanding graduating senior from College of Engineering

SKILLS
Operating Systems: Linux/Unix/X, Windows, and Macintosh Languages: C/C++, PHP, Perl, SQL, Java, shell scripts, HTML, sed, CGI & WWW Protocols Software: Matlab, OpenGL, PhotoShop, 3D Studio Max, Microsoft Office, etc. Other skills: image processing, computer graphics, geometric/scientific algorithms, information retrieval

PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE
May 1999 - August 1999 Numerical Design, Ltd.
Software Engineer Ported award-winning NetImmerse game engine to Linux and Macintosh. Expanded tool that converted 3D Studio Max hierarchies into convex rooms with portals.
August 1995 - present Dept. of Computer Science, UNC-Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, NC 27599
Research Assistant Currently working on Ph.D. topic: general purpose computation using graphics hardware.

August 1994 - May 1995 Dept. of Mathematical Sciences, University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY 40508
Mathematical Sciences Staff Performed research on an Advanced Technology in Education grant. Determined the necessary hardware for a distance-learning class, installed the Linux operating system on over twenty computers, and taught a two-day workshop on using the system. Supported fifteen sites for a semester, and served as teaching assistant on the distance-learning class.

January 1992 - August 1994 Department of Defense, 9800 Savage Road, Ft. George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Co-operative education student Completed four work tours (over a year total) with the National Security Agency. During my first tour I produced a sizable report on UNIX security which resulted in a $500 Special Performance Cash Award. On other tours I worked on natural language processing tools, telecommunications, and hardware design of an encryption chip.

6. Google's toolbar is spyware:
With the advanced features enabled, Google's free toolbar for Explorer phones home with every page you surf. Yes, it reads your cookie too, and sends along the last search terms you used in the toolbar. Their privacy policy confesses this, but that's only because Alexa lost a class-action lawsuit when their toolbar did the same thing, and their privacy policy failed to explain this. Worse yet, Google's toolbar updates to new versions quietly, and without asking. This means that if you have the toolbar installed, Google essentially has complete access to your hard disk every time you phone home. Most software vendors, and even Microsoft, ask if you'd like an updated version. But not Google.

7. Google's cache copy is illegal:
Judging from Ninth Circuit precedent on the application of U.S. copyright laws to the Internet, Google's cache copy appears to be illegal. The only way a webmaster can avoid having his site cached on Google is to put a "noarchive" meta in the header of every page on his site. Surfers like the cache, but webmasters don't. Many webmasters have deleted questionable material from their sites, only to discover later that the problem pages live merrily on in Google's cache. The cache copy should be "opt-in" for webmasters, not "opt-out."

8. Google is not your friend:
Young, stupid script kiddies and many bloggers still think Google is "way kool," so by now Google enjoys a 75 percent monopoly for all external referrals to most websites. No webmaster can avoid seeking Google's approval these days, assuming he wants to increase traffic to his site. If he tries to take advantage of some of the known weaknesses in Google's semi-secret algorithms, he may find himself penalized by Google, and his traffic disappears. There are no detailed, published standards issued by Google, and there is no appeal process for penalized sites. Google is completely unaccountable. Most of the time they don't even answer email from webmasters.

9. Google is a privacy time bomb:
With 150 million searches per day, most from outside the U.S., Google amounts to a privacy disaster waiting to happen. Those newly-commissioned data-mining bureaucrats in Washington can only dream about the sort of slick efficiency that Google has already achieved.

1. Google's immortal Google was the first search engine to use a cookie that expires in 2038. This was at a time when federal websites were prohibited from using persistent cookies altogether. Now it's years later, and immortal cookies are commonplace among search engines; Google set the standard because no one bothered to challenge them. This cookie places a unique ID number on your hard disk. Anytime you land on a Google page, you get a Google cookie if you don't already have one. If you have one, they read and record your unique ID number.

2. Google records everything they can:
For all searches they record the cookie ID, your Internet IP address, the time and date, your search terms, and your browser configuration. Increasingly, Google is customizing results based on your IP number. This is referred to in the industry as "IP delivery based on geolocation."

3. Google retains all data indefinitely:
Google has no data retention policies. There is evidence that they are able to easily access all the user information they collect and save.

4. Google won't say why they need this data:
Inquiries to Google about their privacy policies are ignored. When the New York Times (2002-11-28) asked Sergey Brin about whether Google ever gets subpoenaed for this information, he had no comment.

5. Google hires spooks:
Matt Cutts, a key Google engineer, used to work for the National Security Agency. Google wants to hire more people with security clearances, so that they can peddle their corporate assets to the spooks in Washington.

Matthew Cutts CV
Cutts' CV page (he's now removed it) http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts/personal/resume.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010121230800/http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts /personal/resume.html
Matt Cutts cutts [at] cs.unc.edu http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts

CB#3175,
Sitterson Hall
UNC-Chapel Hill
Chapel Hill,
NC 27599
(919) 962-1708

EDUCATION
M.S. Computer Science, May 1998 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill GPA: 3.94
B.S. Computer Science and Mathematics, May 1995 University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY GPA: 4.0 Graduated summa cum laude with departmental honors in both computer science and mathematics. Received Maurice Clay award for outstanding graduating senior from College of Engineering

SKILLS
Operating Systems: Linux/Unix/X, Windows, and Macintosh Languages: C/C++, PHP, Perl, SQL, Java, shell scripts, HTML, sed, CGI & WWW Protocols Software: Matlab, OpenGL, PhotoShop, 3D Studio Max, Microsoft Office, etc. Other skills: image processing, computer graphics, geometric/scientific algorithms, information retrieval

PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE
May 1999 - August 1999 Numerical Design, Ltd.
Software Engineer Ported award-winning NetImmerse game engine to Linux and Macintosh. Expanded tool that converted 3D Studio Max hierarchies into convex rooms with portals.
August 1995 - present Dept. of Computer Science, UNC-Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, NC 27599
Research Assistant Currently working on Ph.D. topic: general purpose computation using graphics hardware.

August 1994 - May 1995 Dept. of Mathematical Sciences, University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY 40508
Mathematical Sciences Staff Performed research on an Advanced Technology in Education grant. Determined the necessary hardware for a distance-learning class, installed the Linux operating system on over twenty computers, and taught a two-day workshop on using the system. Supported fifteen sites for a semester, and served as teaching assistant on the distance-learning class.

January 1992 - August 1994 Department of Defense, 9800 Savage Road, Ft. George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Co-operative education student Completed four work tours (over a year total) with the National Security Agency. During my first tour I produced a sizable report on UNIX security which resulted in a $500 Special Performance Cash Award. On other tours I worked on natural language processing tools, telecommunications, and hardware design of an encryption chip.

6. Google's toolbar is spyware:
With the advanced features enabled, Google's free toolbar for Explorer phones home with every page you surf. Yes, it reads your cookie too, and sends along the last search terms you used in the toolbar. Their privacy policy confesses this, but that's only because Alexa lost a class-action lawsuit when their toolbar did the same thing, and their privacy policy failed to explain this. Worse yet, Google's toolbar updates to new versions quietly, and without asking. This means that if you have the toolbar installed, Google essentially has complete access to your hard disk every time you phone home. Most software vendors, and even Microsoft, ask if you'd like an updated version. But not Google.

7. Google's cache copy is illegal:
Judging from Ninth Circuit precedent on the application of U.S. copyright laws to the Internet, Google's cache copy appears to be illegal. The only way a webmaster can avoid having his site cached on Google is to put a "noarchive" meta in the header of every page on his site. Surfers like the cache, but webmasters don't. Many webmasters have deleted questionable material from their sites, only to discover later that the problem pages live merrily on in Google's cache. The cache copy should be "opt-in" for webmasters, not "opt-out."

8. Google is not your friend:
Young, stupid script kiddies and many bloggers still think Google is "way kool," so by now Google enjoys a 75 percent monopoly for all external referrals to most websites. No webmaster can avoid seeking Google's approval these days, assuming he wants to increase traffic to his site. If he tries to take advantage of some of the known weaknesses in Google's semi-secret algorithms, he may find himself penalized by Google, and his traffic disappears. There are no detailed, published standards issued by Google, and there is no appeal process for penalized sites. Google is completely unaccountable. Most of the time they don't even answer email from webmasters.

9. Google is a privacy time bomb:
With 150 million searches per day, most from outside the U.S., Google amounts to a privacy disaster waiting to happen. Those newly-commissioned data-mining bureaucrats in Washington can only dream about the sort of slick efficiency that Google has already achieved.

1. Google's immortal Google was the first search engine to use a cookie that expires in 2038. This was at a time when federal websites were prohibited from using persistent cookies altogether. Now it's years later, and immortal cookies are commonplace among search engines; Google set the standard because no one bothered to challenge them. This cookie places a unique ID number on your hard disk. Anytime you land on a Google page, you get a Google cookie if you don't already have one. If you have one, they read and record your unique ID number.

2. Google records everything they can:
For all searches they record the cookie ID, your Internet IP address, the time and date, your search terms, and your browser configuration. Increasingly, Google is customizing results based on your IP number. This is referred to in the industry as "IP delivery based on geolocation."

3. Google retains all data indefinitely:
Google has no data retention policies. There is evidence that they are able to easily access all the user information they collect and save.

4. Google won't say why they need this data:
Inquiries to Google about their privacy policies are ignored. When the New York Times (2002-11-28) asked Sergey Brin about whether Google ever gets subpoenaed for this information, he had no comment.

5. Google hires spooks:
Matt Cutts, a key Google engineer, used to work for the National Security Agency. Google wants to hire more people with security clearances, so that they can peddle their corporate assets to the spooks in Washington.

Matthew Cutts CV
Cutts' CV page (he's now removed it) http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts/personal/resume.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010121230800/http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts /personal/resume.html
Matt Cutts cutts [at] cs.unc.edu http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts

CB#3175,
Sitterson Hall
UNC-Chapel Hill
Chapel Hill,
NC 27599
(919) 962-1708

EDUCATION
M.S. Computer Science, May 1998 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill GPA: 3.94
B.S. Computer Science and Mathematics, May 1995 University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY GPA: 4.0 Graduated summa cum laude with departmental honors in both computer science and mathematics. Received Maurice Clay award for outstanding graduating senior from College of Engineering

SKILLS
Operating Systems: Linux/Unix/X, Windows, and Macintosh Languages: C/C++, PHP, Perl, SQL, Java, shell scripts, HTML, sed, CGI & WWW Protocols Software: Matlab, OpenGL, PhotoShop, 3D Studio Max, Microsoft Office, etc. Other skills: image processing, computer graphics, geometric/scientific algorithms, information retrieval

PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE
May 1999 - August 1999 Numerical Design, Ltd.
Software Engineer Ported award-winning NetImmerse game engine to Linux and Macintosh. Expanded tool that converted 3D Studio Max hierarchies into convex rooms with portals.
August 1995 - present Dept. of Computer Science, UNC-Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, NC 27599
Research Assistant Currently working on Ph.D. topic: general purpose computation using graphics hardware.

August 1994 - May 1995 Dept. of Mathematical Sciences, University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY 40508
Mathematical Sciences Staff Performed research on an Advanced Technology in Education grant. Determined the necessary hardware for a distance-learning class, installed the Linux operating system on over twenty computers, and taught a two-day workshop on using the system. Supported fifteen sites for a semester, and served as teaching assistant on the distance-learning class.

January 1992 - August 1994 Department of Defense, 9800 Savage Road, Ft. George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Co-operative education student Completed four work tours (over a year total) with the National Security Agency. During my first tour I produced a sizable report on UNIX security which resulted in a $500 Special Performance Cash Award. On other tours I worked on natural language processing tools, telecommunications, and hardware design of an encryption chip.

6. Google's toolbar is spyware:
With the advanced features enabled, Google's free toolbar for Explorer phones home with every page you surf. Yes, it reads your cookie too, and sends along the last search terms you used in the toolbar. Their privacy policy confesses this, but that's only because Alexa lost a class-action lawsuit when their toolbar did the same thing, and their privacy policy failed to explain this. Worse yet, Google's toolbar updates to new versions quietly, and without asking. This means that if you have the toolbar installed, Google essentially has complete access to your hard disk every time you phone home. Most software vendors, and even Microsoft, ask if you'd like an updated version. But not Google.

7. Google's cache copy is illegal:
Judging from Ninth Circuit precedent on the application of U.S. copyright laws to the Internet, Google's cache copy appears to be illegal. The only way a webmaster can avoid having his site cached on Google is to put a "noarchive" meta in the header of every page on his site. Surfers like the cache, but webmasters don't. Many webmasters have deleted questionable material from their sites, only to discover later that the problem pages live merrily on in Google's cache. The cache copy should be "opt-in" for webmasters, not "opt-out."

8. Google is not your friend:
Young, stupid script kiddies and many bloggers still think Google is "way kool," so by now Google enjoys a 75 percent monopoly for all external referrals to most websites. No webmaster can avoid seeking Google's approval these days, assuming he wants to increase traffic to his site. If he tries to take advantage of some of the known weaknesses in Google's semi-secret algorithms, he may find himself penalized by Google, and his traffic disappears. There are no detailed, published standards issued by Google, and there is no appeal process for penalized sites. Google is completely unaccountable. Most of the time they don't even answer email from webmasters.

9. Google is a privacy time bomb:
With 150 million searches per day, most from outside the U.S., Google amounts to a privacy disaster waiting to happen. Those newly-commissioned data-mining bureaucrats in Washington can only dream about the sort of slick efficiency that Google has already achieved.

Now looky here.
I did not say I was a millionare.
But I said I have spent more money than a millionare.
Cause if I had kept all of the money I had already spent,
I'd woulda been a millionare a long time ago.
And women?
Well, great googly moogly!

you're really missing the point.

the fact is, you used the word "zionazi", which is in conflict with google news's policy. it doesn't matter what anyone else does or says. if you break the rules, it doesn't matter if a million other people broke the rules and didn't get caught. you still broke their rules, and now you must deal with the concequences. you don't get special treatment just because you're indymedia. how self-important do you have to be to think that everyone else should change their rules just for you?

it's like getting pulled over for speeding and trying to worm your way out of it with the excuse "well that other guy was speeding too! why didn't you pull him over instead of me??" please. i'm all for cheering on people who break the rules, but when you get caught, it's time to pay the price and suck it up.

also, considering how much anti-semitic content there is here (really, you need a special editor just to catch anti-semitic content? that's telling), i really can't blame google for dropping IMC. it sounds like they just waited for an obvious example of the rampant anti-semitism on this site so they could do what any sane news service would do.

all the coverage here of the various protest movements and of the anti-globalization movement is fantastic, however, every time i visit any IMC site, there's some post or thread blaming the "evil jews" or the "nazi racist zionists" for all the world's ills.

even though another newspaper might carry the occasional ann coulter column and all the vitriol she spews ("islamofascist", etc), such sources still provide news. indymedia has some news, but it's mostly rants. that's the difference.

as a commited lefty who's been following indymedia from the beginning, i'm sad to say that you've seriously gone downhill. and this tantrum over being called on indymedia's rampant anti-semitism is yet another nail in the coffin of irrelevancy.

I haven't ever noticed a post blaming "evil Jews" for "ALL THE WORLD'S ILLS", as you claim. I have notived and joined in in pointing out how "nazi racist Zionists" ARE the offending party when speaking of the ILLS forced on the Palestinians. "Death to Israel" is not an offensive statement, it is defensive, and does not concern the whole world, as you claim. But it does concern palestine, which, Zionists don't wish to talk about, since Israel is Zionists occupied Palestine, as the Zionists choose instead to assert that mythical charges of people allegedly blaming "Jews" for all the worlds ills, since that is an argument they can sound rational when confronting. But, it is still false witness ment to distract you from the REAL WORLD issue of Zionists being murderous thieves in Palestine. The real world issues are too much for Zionists to deal with, which is why they create mythical arguments that they actually have a chance of getting through without looking like psychopathic murderous thieves. Sidelineing the issues is not a sideline for Zionists, it is thier forte.

Death to Israel, Death to all bloodstained crusades. Again, that is not offensive, but defensive.

> Sidelineing the issues is not a sideline for Zionists, it is thier forte.

of course, you must be really familiar with that strategy of debating, considering you completely sidelined my argument, in favor of the same old tired talking points.

indymedia broke google's rules. period. it doesn't matter what anyone else said in any other news source. it doesn't matter whether or not google was founded by "the jews"(tm). why their decision is shocking to anyone, i'll never understand.

Look. Let me explain in the style of Rachel Lucas: Indymedia. Is. Not. A. News. Site. It is AT BEST a publishing outlet for press releases created by imaginative minds with loose adherence to facts. And it is flypaper for anti-Semites. (I would say "loony anti-Semites," but why be redundant?) The beauty of the First Amendment is that we are guaranteed our right of free speech - not that the government grants that right, but the government recognizes that right. So Indymedia is safe for now. Publish what you will; you have, with certain and limited restrictions, the right to publish whatever you want. But... Do. Not. Confuse. "Indymedia." With. A. Real. News. Outlet. It is not "news" - it is LARGELY personal opinion. Again, I remind you: Google has not removed Indymedia as a web-searched site. It has merely and justly removed it as a news site. If you want Indymedia to be considered a news site, then do some work to understand what makes news "news" and not just the rantings of the thorazine™-deprived.

When 200,000 (mostly muslims) die in massive war in the early 90's, these leftists couldn't care less.

When a jew kills 3, they rant about it daily. When a jew then kills 2 or 1 (terrorist), they scream "massacre!"

Bosnia, Sept. 20 (Reuters) — Former President Bill Clinton inaugurated a memorial today to thousands of Muslim victims of the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, and he called for the arrest of fugitive leaders accused in the atrocity.

About 20,000 people welcomed Mr. Clinton at a large complex due to become the final resting place for the victims of the massacre, the worst organized slaughter in Europe since World War II.

"Bad people who lusted for power killed those good people simply because of who they were," Mr. Clinton said, standing before a pagoda-style temple dominating the memorial. "They sought power through genocide."

Families of some of the more than 7,000 people killed wanted Mr. Clinton to open the shrine because of his efforts to end the 1992-95 war that killed about 200,000 people.

Many wept as the remains of 107 victims were laid to rest alongside 882 already buried here, among them four members of the Delic family: three brothers and their father, the youngest 17 and the oldest 75.

Columns of men, relatives of the dead, bore coffins draped in Islamic green. A stone inscribed "Srebrenica, July 11 1995" was covered with bouquets.

The memorial, in a meadow near where Bosnian Serb troops separated women and children from the men, is designed like a flower, with rows of graves for petals.

The Muslims were killed by the Bosnian Serb Army under Gen. Ratko Mladic after his forces captured Srebrenica, a predominantly Muslim town that had been declared a United Nations "safe area."

General Mladic and Radovan Karadzic, the wartime Bosnian Serb leader, have been indicted by the United Nations war crimes tribunal in The Hague for genocide in Srebrenica and in the siege of Sarajevo. Both remain at large eight years after the war ended.

"Those most responsible for the atrocities, the leaders, have not been apprehended," Mr. Clinton said. "The search for them must continue until they are."

Mr. Clinton, who visited Kosovo on Friday where he was greeted by enthusiastic crowds of Kosovo Albanians, said he hoped the memorial would foster the return of Muslims to Srebrenica, where they accounted for 95 percent of the population before the conflict.

About 4,000 people have returned to the area, while more than 5,500 body bags with the remains of other Srebrenica victims are stored in a refrigerated morgue awaiting identification.

Biba Delic, 37, with her two children, wept as the body of her husband, Aziz, was brought in for burial alongside his two brothers and father.

"Today I am burying my husband and with him I am burying hope," she said, weeping and hugging her son and daughter. "The day we identified him, my hope that I might see him ever again died. I wish I could still hope."

"This is not funny, nor do I expect it was intended to be. Zionists and their supporters are cold blooded, amoral and ruthless. Blood drips from their fangs. Anybody who doesn’t take their threats seriously needs a history lesson.

And yeah, I’m dead serious.
"
-Nessie (SF Indymedia editor)
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/12/1548139_comment.php

If this is one of the posts by an editor that made Google drop SF Indymedia as a news source, why cant it be talked about? Whats the point in having discussion on why SF Indymedia got banned by Google News when the real reasons are censored to make Google's choice seem less justified?

Palestine + Zionists = Israel + dead Palestinians + Palestinian refugees

Until the Zionists can justify thier murderous theft of Palestine, the manner by which Palestinians resist the Zionist's offenses is just sidelineing the real world issues. Rationalizations for why Zionist offenses are not offenses does not change anything. Zionists are still occupying Palestine. If Zionists were occupying New Hampshire, you wouldn't be so quick to claim Zionists have a right to murder and steal, would you? Or would you? Psychopathic denial of Palestinian misery does not make the misery go away. And Zionists makeing a profit from the misery they forced on the Palestinians isn't the only issue. It isn't even an issue. It is psychopathic prejudice to think Zionists profiting from thier offenses against palestinians makes the offenses less offensive.

After Muslims kicked the Byzantine masters out of palestine, it took over 100 years for Arabic to become the locals language. Palestinians are not arabs. Muslims offered the slaves, in lands the Muslims drove Byzantines out of, an option. Convert to Islam, and get instant freedom after 600 years of slavery to Roman masters and 1200 years of slavery to hebrew masters from Egypt, OR stay a slave to those smart enough to convert. This is how Islam spread so quickly. The large numbers of Christians and jews in most Muslim lands (where they lived before muslims arrived) testifies to the fact that there were no forced conversions.
When Romans kicked the Jews out of the land hebrews murdered Canaanites, Amorites etc to steal, the Romans didn't kick out the slaves(153600 in Soloman's day 2nd Cronicles chapter 2), who just exchanged Jewish masters for Roman masters. Zionists admit that Sumaritans are the same race that was there 2000 years ago. Sumaritans have many non-Muslims. Philestia was Gaza, tiny little Gaza. The majority left in the land after Romans kicked only the jewish master race out were the former slaves of jews. Sure, Rome's economy was based on slavery, but they sure as hell were not going to name the place slave land. And the place was named for the tiny Philistine minority in Gaza. Naming the place Palestine did not change Sumaritans to Palestinians, as it did not change the slaves into Palestinians. 2000 years of trying to get along as best they could made them Palestinians. What they call themselves and when does not make them subhuman shit on the Zionists shoes, no matter how many times you are told to believe Zionists have a "birthright" to murder the locals and steal the land. And if you think that YOU have any business saying who Palestinians accept into Palestine and who they reject, then you are playing God. You have no business saying who has a right to live in Palestine (as Democrats and republicans do believe, for some psychopathic reason). Appeasing the Zionist's claimed "birthright" to murder and steal, just because Hebrews also murdered for the land, makes you....hmmm, what does that make you? A whore? Degrading your morals for a preseaved profit? The Whore of Babylon acts the same in prophesy.

Arabs were accepted by Palestinians and became a part of Palestinian society. zionists are bloodstained foriegn invadors. There happens to be a world of difference. To suggest any similarity just shows your own pre-judge-mental views.

Who but Palestinians have any business saying who can move to and become a part of Palestine? Britts? How? The Judao-Christian dominated 1947 UN? How? The even more Judao-Christian dominated Leage of nations? How? Zionist invadors? You gotta be kidding!

Zionism means many thing to many people. As a political movement it wasnt initially focused on Israel and for a time it was headed by Socialists and people like Einstein (who opposed what was happening in Israel but did call himself a Zionist). To some Zionist has come to mean the Israeli far right. But thats not really the only use for the word. Due to definition of the word, for many Jews talk of Christian Zionists is nonsensical. And for many of the left the ideas that many early self described Zionists wanted a "one state solution" with a Socialist state giving equal rights to all also doesnt seem to make sense. When Zionism was more of a movement than a slur or word for Jew, there were plenty of secular Zionists who wanted a Jewish and Palestinian workers state.

So where does that leave this website:

If Zionist means Jewish, this site looks antiSemitic, blaming a people for the actions of a few.

Even if Zionist is taken to mean people who support Israel's "right to exist", attacks on "evil Zionists" can come across as Nazi propaganda. Independent of how Israel was founded, people now live there who had no choice; blaming children for the actions of their parents is blaming one person for the action of others they could not control.

Sure when leftists say they dont support "Israel's right to exist" it can mean something very different from expelling and killing the Jewish population. But what exactly does it mean? Jews are now a solid majority in Israel proper and many grew up in Israel and really cant go anywhere else. When Idi Amin expelled Indians for being colonizers was that justified? Why is attacking second generation immigrants an ok thing when it comes to Isreal but not for any other country. In the US most on the Left support economic immigrants and see demonization of economic immigrants as racism. Is the difference that Irsael's immigration policy is biased and racist? The US immigration policy is also biased and racist but people attack the US government for that not the immigrants who do manage to get here.

Activists should be opposing Israel's government and the occupation, not using a term like Zionist that is taken by a large portion of people to just mean Jewish. Saying "this is the real meaning of Zionism" isnt really a way around the problem since in English and most languages words take the meaning that the population accepts and meanings are not stuck in stone.

Sharon's supporters have gained a lot of support by casting their opponents as antiSemetic. Dont play into their hands by using language that when taken out of context appears to be hate speach. It doesnt matter if your take on some historical event is right or wrong, you are playing into the hands of the very people you pretend to be opposing.

Very true, but one thing you missed. People like me are not real "Sharon supporters." To me, Sharon is an asshole, and he's made a bunch of mistakes. But these RABID Israel-demonizers say such absurdly exaggerated things about ariel sharon that I'm forced to step in and correct some of the nonsense. And then I get called an "ariel sharon lover" and then people start hurting the "zionist" label (as if it's a negative and condems me to hell).... it's absurd. They're like crazed obsessed lunatics with their anti-israel nonsense.

Just beacuse someone points out that ariel sharon IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN as bad as a scumbag like yasser arafat doesn't mean they "LIKE" ariel sharon. But this "zionism is nazism," "ariel sharon is as bad as hitler," an this ABSURD ranting about "the murderous zionists" in the manner that's done here just makes you look like crazed outcasts and just makes people like me who DO NOT LIKE ariel sharon come out an correct some of the nonsense.

Good post..

And I concur with Don. Most of the "pro-israel" (ie for its existance) people here probably dont like sharon. But that doesnt mean we want to destroy israel any more than not liking bush would make you want to destroy the USA.

Does a jewish country have a right to exist. That is 1 question. Do Zionists have a right to murder even a single palestinian or steal a single square inch of Palestine. That is a compleatly different question. The fact that you will argue the first, meaningless question, and avoid like hell the second real world question just shows your own true prejudices. If Zionists really have a "birthright" to murder and steal, then lets see it. Come on, I'll even start you off.

"Zionists have a right to murder and steal because...........!
Now, you can fill me in on the part I don't understand. You know, when Jews speak of Nazi gold in Swiss banks, it is always "nobody can be allowed to profit from murder." then everyone claps thier hands. But, because hebrews once murdered Canaanites, Amorites, etc for the land, ZIonists claim murdering Palestinians and stealing the land as thier "birthright". Israel is an abomiNation in thier own eyes. But they will not even admit that thier bloodstianed crusade in Palestine is even rude, much less the murderous theft of the Palestinian's lands. How about you? Just rude? Can't even admit that much, can you, you brainwashed crusade freaks. Israel has NO right to exist. That is not the same as "Jews have no right to a country of thier own." It just means Zionists have no more right to profit from murder than that other tribe of murderous thieving nazis claimed they had in thier actions. Zionists claim it in actions and words. but when confronted the evil Zionists run from the light and try to change the subject to something that doesn't even involve the palestinians at all. Europeans were evil to jews. Yes, and? Do you really think that gives Zionists any right to murder and steal? You might even be so twisted as to believe that helping the Zionists murder palestinians and steal Palestinian lands (with other peoples taxes, no less) is going to make up for the past sins of other alleged christians against Jews. That is how brainwashed I find most people. real idiots.

And Islam spread so quickly because they offered freedom to slaves in exchange for conversions. Christians and jews (not former slaves, but owners of former slaves freed by Muslims) held a much higher possition in Muslim lands than Muslims and Jews in Christian lands. The actual history of islam does not include forced conversions.

Does a jewish country have a right to exist. That is 1 question. Do I have a right to pose an evil and stupid question about Zionists having a right to murder even a single palestinian or steal a single square inch of Palestine, thus falsely accusing them of same? That is a compleatly different question. The fact that I will argue the first, meaningful question, and avoid like hell the second real world question just shows my own true prejudices. If I really have a "birthright" to falsely accuse Zionists of murder and stealing, then lets see it. Come on, I'll even start you off.

"I have a right to falsely accuse Zionists of having a right to murder and steal because...........!
Now, you can fill me in on the part I don't understand. You know, when Jews speak of Nazi gold in Swiss banks, I say it is always "nobody can be allowed to profit from murder." then everyone claps thier hands. But, because hebrews once murdered some Canaanites, Amorites, etc for the land, I now blame the ZIonists of claiming murdering Palestinians and stealing the land is their "birthright". I say Israel is an abomiNation in thier own eyes. But they will not even admit that thier bloodstianed crusade in Palestine is even rude, much less the murderous theft of the Palestinian's lands, because this is a false accusation I'm levelling at them. How about myself? Just rude? Can't even admit that much, can I, me, a brainwashed white supremacist pea-brain. I insist Israel has NO right to exist, because I'm too idiotic to figure out why it does. Then I proceed to say that is not the same as "Jews have no right to a country of thier own." I maintain it just means Zionists, whom in my disgusting ignorance put on the same level as the Nazis, have no more right to profit from murder than that other tribe of murderous thieving nazis claimed they had in thier actions. I'm such a dolt that I'm saying Zionists claim it in actions and words. but when confronted the Zionists, whom I consider evil, try to change the subject to something that doesn't even involve the palestinians at all, and rightly so, because no person in his or her right mind should engage in a stupid conversation where he or she is charged with false charges and leads nowhere and only gives the accuser momentary satisfaction. Europeans were evil to jews. Yes, and? Do you really think that gives me sny right to twist, exaggerate, lie and accuse Zionists of murder and theft? I'm definitely so twisted as to projecting on someone else a libelous hypothetical suggestion (devoid of truth, mind you) that helping the Zionists murder palestinians and steal Palestinian lands (with other peoples taxes, no less) is going to make up for the past sins of other alleged christians against Jews. That is how brainwashed I find myself. I'm a real idiot.

You miss the points on which you disagree with both the israelis and the people who disagree with you on here.
Are you doing that on purpose (to just confuse people) or are you confused yourself?

Imply? Me? IMPLY? When mt first posting on this article is titled "death to Israel"? I love the denial. Thanks for the good laugh. I don't just say Zionists are murderous thieves. I explain how the are murderous thieves, and I touch on HOW Zionists and thier vacant supporters lie.

An article about indy media getting booted from Google, and I post an coment titled "death to Israel", which SF IMC has NOT booted out. Not for 3 weeks now. THREE! And google hasn't mentioned it. Odd, "death to Israel" sounds like just what Google would be looking for to make it's case against SF IMC, and since SF IMC has NOT booted out my post, well, .....Show me the balls.

TheTroll seems to be saying the following:
(1) He needs mental therapy over his hatred of this alleged very specific group called "the zionists." Who are "the zionists," the israeli government? All jewish israelis who support their own very existence? All people on earth who support the concept of a jewish nation-state existing? Ranting about "the zionists" like that just make THeTroll look like a nutjob, but oh well.
(2) He wants Israel to die.
(3) He wants to see your balls, perhaps to hold in his hand or something, I'm not sure about that one.

Google News is for real *news* -- you know, with reporters who travel to places, speak to people, have experience. You know, news.

Indymedia is pretend news. You people should know that. You've been drinking too much of the kool-aid around here.

Who are the Zionists = people who think alleged Jews have a right to murder Palestinians and steal the survivor's homeland. Sure, Hebrews murdered Canaanites, Amorites, jebuzites, etc and stole the land 3000 years ago. But, Hebrews murdering for the land is a piss poor pretext for Zionists to claim gives them a right to murder even a single Palestinian and steal the land. Homeland my ass. Claiming Palestine is a Jewish homeland is to claim murder is a valid means to profit. When talking of Nazi gold in Swiss banks, Zionists rightly proclaim that "Noone can be allowed to profit from murder." And the people listening clap and cheer. BUT, because Hebrews were murderous thieves, Zionists claim the same right. Wow, psychopathic to the core.

Jewish Israelis do NOT support thier own right to existance. Zionists support thier alleged "birthright" to murder palestinians and steal Palestine. There happens to be a world of difference between defending your own life and murdering your nieghbors and stealing thier homeland, which is still offensive when talking about anyone other than Zionists. Zionists know where the exits are located. But Zionists do not want peace, Zionists want palestine, which is why they continue to murder for the land, which the Zionists very best claim to the land is that Hebrews were murderous thieves too.

All people in the world who think a Jewish nation has a right to exist, as I pointed out many times, are lying to themselves if they think a Jewish nation having a right to exist equates to the alleged right Zionists claim in words and actions to murder Palestinians and steal the survivor's homeland. Those are STILL 2 compleatly different situations. If you can't separate the 2, then you must either be too stupid or too prejudiced for even the truth to make it past your programed understanding. It realy is simple to understand.

Israel is a crusade. I care about the bloodstained Zionist crusaders about as much as I care about the Christian Crusaders, and all murderous thieves, not at all. They can burn in hell for all I care. Zionists know where the exits are located. They can get the hell out, and have peace with the Palestinians. Christian crusader were tormenting the locals, and worse, for over 180 years, and they were never welcomed in Christian occupied palestine. Zionists, half that long.

And, after you try (and fail) to make me out as some nutjob, for daring to say that Zionists have NO "birthright" to murder even a single palestinian or steal even a single square inch of palestine, you finnish off your character assasination attempt with raw insults. That is about par for Zionists, Scapegoating others, and all, like that other tribe of nazis. In my above posts, starting with the one titled "death to Israel", I point out many similarities Zionists share with, and even surpass for vileness, the actions and beliefs of that other tribe of nazis. And denial is a major one I think I left out. Insisting that the "conflict" in Palestine is betwen nieghbors who refuse to get along and are always fighting, instead of the reality that Zionists are bloodstained foriegn invadors conspiring murderous theft in thier collective effort to profit from the misery they chose to dump on Palestinians, is just another lie you use to rationalize the crimes of Zionists. I think that makes the real nutjobs obvious to all. Have a nice day. And don't murder ANY of your nieghbors and steal any of thier survivor's homeland, even if you are allegedly Jewish.

Google News is for real *news* -- you know, with reporters who travel to places, speak to people, have experience. You know, news.

Indymedia is pretend news.

As someone who travelled to Ecuador to report on the mobilization against the Free Trade Area of the Americas summit for Indymedia, I resent this. Yes, you lose some quality control when you democratize the news. But it's worth it. I've seen some real gems come through on indymedia--news you can't get anywhere else.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?D25251526

October 6, 2003

Google Starts Counting Searches
By LISA NAPOLI

orrection Appended

Think of it as an odometer for a search engine.

The Web search service Google has quietly started placing a counter on its home page for a small number of its most frequent users.

Most Google users do not have it, but a select few now have a no-frills counter that with each search clicks higher, noting "You have done 479 searches," or whatever the actual number.

For the curious, an explanatory page linked to the counter reveals that this is a test, or limited-sample experiment of a new search counting feature.

The counter is placed on computer hard drives by a cookie, a software file that a Web site places without the recipient's permission or notification and that transmits information back to the site. "If the number contains more than three digits,'' the counter notes, "you truly are a Google frequent searcher.''

What is going on here? Google, which processes about 200 million search requests a day at no cost to users, said the counter had been placed on the hard drives of fewer than 1 percent of its users.

But the company would not specify how users were chosen or exactly when the test began.

"It's one of our experiments,'' Marissa Mayer, Google's director for consumer products, said. ldquoWe're playing with it to understand what the effects of it would be.''

The counter was inspired by airline frequent flier programs, Ms. Mayer said.

"We've heard people say they think they use Google 50 times a day.'' The intent is not to encourage searching just for the sake of raising the counter numbers, she said, but rather to illustrate just how often users actually turn to the search engine.

"More than anything, this is just something fun,'' she said. "I like to see my numbers go up. I feel like I'm getting smarter when the number goes up because I've learned.''

She said the company had deliberately not publicized the counter experiment to keep from skewing how the surfing public would use it.

Although Ms. Mayer says Google is not keeping count or a record of the searches any specific test user conducts, some privacy experts have raised concerns about the potential to collect such information, especially from a search company as popular as Google.

"Do users know that Google is spying on them?'' said Marc Rotenberg, the executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington, "From a privacy viewpoint, the question you'd ask is, 'Why they are logging this?' ''

While simply logging information for fun may be harmless, Mr. Rotenberg said he would be concerned if a company linked such software to other data that could specifically identify a user.

"It's very important to be transparent about how you're using this data,'' he said.

Whether and when the counter might be placed on the Google screens of all users has not been decided, Ms. Mayer said.

"The test is very new,'' she said. " We're still looking at the data.''

Correction: Oct. 8, 2003, Wednesday

An article in Business Day on Monday about an experiment by Google that places a counter on its home page to track the number of searches performed by some of its most frequent users misstated the working of the software "cookie" underlying the process. A cookie, a type of small text file, identifies the user's computer when the person next returns to a Web site. It does not transmit information to a site. The article also referred incompletely to options for the placement of cookies. While they are often put on computers without notification, users can set their Web browsers to accept cookies, block them or accept them case by case.

If you are worried about cookies it is easy to turn them off in "internet options" found in the tools menu of MS Internet Explorer. It is the "privacy" tab.

IndySearch. Search many Indymedia sites at once. Search Germany Indymedia sites. Search Italy Indymedia sites. Search UK Indymedia sites. Search Belgium Indymedia sites. Search South Africa Indymedia sites. Search Palestine Indymedia sites. Search New York City Indymedia sites. Search Vancouver, Canada Indymedia sites. Search Sydney, Australia Indymedia sites. Search Ireland Indymedia sites. Choose sites from dropdown menu. Click Google button. Then enter additional search terms after the inurl: operator and its URL. You can put quotes around phrases. Search again.

On the Google results page you can click the "News" tab. This will pull up results from thousands of news sites indexed daily by Google News. If the "site:" term was used, you can delete it because it does not work at Google News. If you still want a site-specific search you can try substituting "inurl:" for "site:" and then search Google News again. Google News does not index all news sites. Another way to get specific site searches using Google News is to use these "source:" terms: source:indymedia_italia or source:the_narco_news_bulletin or source:mother_jones or source:guardian or source:common_dreams or source:venezuela_electronic_news or source:pacifica_radio . A less consistently-implemented method is to use search term(s) and the full, correct name of the news site. Such as: Narco News Bulletin, Mother Jones, Guardian, Common Dreams, or Venezuela Electronic News. To search sites using standard Google (not Google News) searches one can use either site: or inurl: followed directly (no space) by the site's homepage URL. Use inurl: for homepage URLs with slashes in them. Use inurl: also to find out how many of a site's pages Google is currently indexing. You can use inurl: more than once in a single search. For example; one can search for dates in URLs. For Indymedia searches add inurl:2003/10 to possibly find October 2003 articles. The IndySearch form above uses inurl: to search various Indymedia sites. Note the pattern and adapt it to search almost any Indymedia city site. Due to technical reasons one has to add the search terms after clicking the Google button in the IndySearch form. An option to search news sites directly is via a specialized MAP/DrugNews search form. Choose from any of hundreds of news sites in the Google search form here: http://www.mapinc.org/media.htm -- The Google search form is at the bottom of the page there. Choose the area of the world, or the beginning letter of the publication, etc., at the top of the web page. Then use the dropdown menu in the search form to select the specific news site. Enter search terms. Click the search button. For more info on Advanced Google Search Operators: http://www.google.com/help/operators.html ------------------ San Francisco Indymedia. The web. Enter search term(s). You can put quotes around phrases. Click Google button. Feel free to pass on the link. For more Indymedia search forms: http://www.geocities.com/tents444/indyplus.htm I only have a few pages on that geocities web host. It provides 3 gigabytes a month of free bandwidth. So it should be OK for awhile. Feel free to pass on this message, the web page, the search forms, etc.. Use or adapt them in any way. Anywhere. Google may not be perfect, but it is better than nothing. And their indexing of Indymedia sites seems to be only be a few days behind. Even when doing regular Google (not Google News) searches.

A priceless gem from TheTroll:

He said: "Jewish Israelis do NOT support thier own right to existance."

Hahahahaha, SURE THING, TheTroll.

Dear Google News,

I would like to complain about your banning of SF Indymedia from Google News on the basis that it supposedly uses "hate speech". You mention "zionazi" as an example.

I would like you to consider the following:

1) The term "Zionism" is not an ethnic term it is a political ideology based on the central idea that the Jewish people have the right to forcibly invade, annexe and ethnically-cleanse Palestinian territory.

2) The term "Nazi" is also a political ideology which is annexationist, racist and geneocidal.

3) Only last weekend, the Israeli army invaded the Gaza Strip and bulldozed whole streets of houses in Rafah killing six and wounding many more--incluidng children, some of whose arms had to be amputated. See the article below from the liberal British broadsheet, The Independent.

The stratagy of the systematic use of overwhelming firepower by a First World professional army (backed by US continuing financial and military aid) on a largely defenceless Third World Palestinian civilian population is very reminscent of the methodology of the Nazis at the time of the Warsaw Ghetto. In short, the Israeli Government and army are behaving like the Nazis did in the Second World War. There is no escaping this fact.

In view of this history of systematic repression throughout the post-war period, I do not for one second think that the term "Zionazi" is at all exaggerated. On the contrary, it is a precise political term describing a selfish, greedy, arrogant genocidal policy--which deserves our unreserved hatred. We should all hate racism and genocidal oppression by any entity Is Google trying to tell people which political concepts they can use? It is not your job to abitrate and sit in judgement on such matters or to ban news media on such bases.

And I note that we can find in Google hate words like "raghead" (which is an ethnic slur) and "islamofascist" (a religious hate word). So it seems that you are being rather disingenuous and hypocritical about all of this.

The real reason for your ban is that you are intolerant of independent news sites like Indymedia because they are not controlled by big business corporations. You people at Google are really are just a bunch of tin pot despots aren't you?


Dr Chris Edwards

Manchester, UK


-------------

Israel kills six in tank attack on Gaza camp
By Justin Huggler and Sa'id Ghazali in Jerusalem
11 October 2003


At keast six Palestinians, including two children aged eight and 12, were killed by Israeli forces yesterday in the biggest military operation in the Gaza Strip for three months, witnesses said.

Residents of Rafah refugee camp contacted by phone told of families fleeing in panic from their homes as Israeli bulldozers advanced on them, and civilians, including children, so badly wounded their limbs had to be amputated.

The Israeli army said the aim of the operation was to find and cut off tunnels used by Palestinian militants to smuggle arms across the border with Egypt. But with the Israeli Defence Minister, Shaul Mofaz, planning to call up reserves at the end of a week-long Jewish holiday, there is concern that the incursion may be the prelude to wider military action.

It was impossible to verify accounts from Rafah, in the south of the Gaza Strip, yesterday, because the area has been almost entirely cut off since Saturday, when the Israeli army cut up the coastal road south from Gaza City and closed a military checkpoint on the only road that was open, trapping thousands of residents in the Rafah area.

Up to 80 Israeli tanks, bulldozers and armoured Jeeps were on the move, one witness said, starting at 11pm on Thursday. The operation was confined to the refugee camp. There were street battles with Palestinian militants, and the Israeli army said shoulder-launched rockets were fired and grenades thrown.

Rafah refugee camp sprawls close to the border with Egypt, overlooked by Israeli watchtowers, and the houses are pocked with bullet-holes. "Three bulldozers entered our neighbourhood, and 20 armoured vehicles, APCs and tanks," Iyad Barhoum, a 24-year-old resident of the camp, said by phone. "They spoke on microphones asking people to evacuate their homes within half an hour. They said they are going to stay for a week. They occupied the rooftops of six buildings.

"Suddenly, a bulldozer was hitting the back of my house. We were 10 people. We ran away. I saw barefooted women carrying children, with hardly any clothes on. I and my family went to Kholafa al-Rashedeen mosque. The army dug holes around my house. I am in the mosque with 200 people. Our house is 150 metres from the border. Now it is partly demolished."

Reports from Rafah said most of the casualties were caused when an Israeli helicopter fired a missile into a building. The Israeli army claimed it fired at gunmen. Mr Barhoum said a missile hit a house as those inside tried to flee. "There were about 150 people in the house of my relative, Mousa Barhoum," he said "As the people started leaving, a missile hit. Mousa was hit in his face and foot. Doctors amputated his foot. Reem Mousa Abu Jazar was hit in the face and legs.

"Louai Barhoum, my cousin, was shot and his right arm was amputated. He is 11. I helped him across the street; later on, I learnt he had been shot."

Residents identified the dead as eight-year-old Ibrahim Qrenawi, 12-year-old Sami Salah, Mohammad Abd al-Wahab, a 23-year-old Hamas militant, and Naher abu Taha, a militant from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, also 23.

It was not clear whether Alaa Mansour, who was also killed, was a civilian or a militant. A sixth body was not identified. Dr Majdi Khalifa said Abu Yousef al-Najjar Hospital had received 43 wounded, and had transferred 15 serious cases to other hospitals. Some reports spoke of at least 50 wounded.

The Israeli army said it had gone into Rafah because it had intelligence that Palestinian militants were trying to smuggle anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles through the tunnels under the Egyptian border at Rafah.

Mr Barhoum added: "Last week they destroyed 21 houses, to destroy two tunnels. There is no tunnel in my house, because I live in it. I refused to sell. For the past three years, merchants have been buying houses and paying large amounts for them, to dig tunnels. They smuggle weapons: rifles and bullets. A group of Egyptians are involved. We are the victims of both sides.

"This will not decrease the number of tunnels. It will increase it, because the Israeli army makes no distinction between the guilty and the innocent. If any house can be destroyed, like today, then people will sell their homes to these merchants."

Israel - Little Clever Country.

There are 192 countries in the world. Israel is the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can make claim to the following:

Per Capita
- Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

- Israel produces more scientific papers than any other nation by a large margin

109 per 10,000 people - as well as one of the highest rates of patents filed.

- Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world.

- Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East. The in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

- Israel has the largest number of biotech start-ups.

- Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity.

- Israel has the world's second highest of new books.

- Israel has more museums than any other country.

- Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers.

In absolute terms

- Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

- Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

- Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the US.

- Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.

- Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.

- Twenty-four percent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees - ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland - and 12 percent hold advanced degrees.

- In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews at risk in Ethiopia to safety in Israel.

- When Gold Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.

- Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict free."

- Israel designed the airline industry's most impenetrable flight security. U.S. officials now look to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.

- In 1991, during the Gulf War, the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra played a concert wearing gas masks as scud missiles fired by Saddam Hussein fell on Tel Aviv.

- Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees.

Medicine

- Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

- An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U.S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.

- Israel's Givun imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used the view the small intestine from the inside, the camera helps doctors diagnose cancer and digestive disorders.

- Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with congestive heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the heart's mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.

Technology

- With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and start-ups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world (apart from the Silicon Valley).

- In response to serious water shortages, Israeli engineers and agriculturalists developed a revolutionary drip irrigation system to minimize the amount of water used to grow crops.

- Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U.S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany.

- Cell/Mobile phone was developed in Israel by Motorola.

- Most of the Windows NT operating system was developed by Microsoft-Israel.

- Pentium MMX chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.

- Centrino chip was developed last year in Haifa by Intel-Israel.

- Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

- Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.

- AOL Instant Messenger technology was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.

- An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California's Mojave desert.

- The first PC anti-virus software was developed in Israel in 1979.



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Arrested for Practicing Sufism The Saudi Arabian Arab News reported in its September 29th edition on the arrest of sixteen foreign workers by Saudi authorities “for allegedly practicing sufism....” The Kingdom’s “religious police” is responsible for enforcing the Islamic codes of dress, morality and religious behavior. Sufism or tasawwuf “is the inner, mystical, or psycho-spiritual dimension of Islam. (Sufism is a Humane face of Islam. Is that why it is persecuted by mainstream Islam? Again, no one is screaming about violation of Human Rights!)

Quote of the Week.
"(Jews) survived 2,000 years of pogroms not by hitting back, but by thinking. They invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy, so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so that they can enjoy equal rights with others." Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammad

(What he was actually saying is: “Jews do not have the right to “enjoy equal rights with others” - Like ethnic Chinese in Malaysia!)

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Our Apology.
by Prof. Stephen Berger, Tel Aviv Medical Center

Following the latest atrocity in Jerusalem, Secretary of State Powell urged the Palestinians to issue some form of denunciation. Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas complained that only the Palestinian side is ever required to denounce terror. Predictably, the Palestinian denunciation later mumbles that they "deplore the murder of civilians on both sides." Perhaps the Palestinians have a point, and so to set the record straight, I do hereby denounce the following in the name of the Jewish People:

1. All Jewish suicide bombers who have ever acted against Arabs.

2. All Arab buses blown up by Jews.

3. All Arab pizza parlors, malls, discotheques and restaurants destroyed by Jewish terrorists.

4. All airplanes hijacked by Jews since 1903.

5. All Ramadan feasts targeted by Jewish bombs.

6. All Arabs lynched in Israeli cities; all Arab Olympic athletes murdered by Jews; all Arab embassies bombed by Jews.

7. All mosques, cemeteries and religious schools fire bombed or desecrated by Jews in North Africa, France, Belgium, Germany, England or any other country.

8. The destruction of American military, governmental and civilian institutions in Kenya, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Yemen - along with the murder of U.S. Marines and diplomatic personnel.

9. All Jewish school books which claim that Arabs poison wells, use Christian blood to bake pita, control world finance, and murdered Jesus; or that Arab elders meet secretly to plot a world takeover.

10. And I am particularly ashamed at the way my fellow Jews attacked the World Trade Center, Pentagon and civilian aircraft on September 11th, and danced in the streets to celebrate the act.

Now, It is time for Arabs/Muslims do the same!

Dear Sandra Belvedere-Scott ,
It too makes me happy to see how civilized Israel is, and what great success it has. Compared to these primitive Palestinians. How can they be so backward in these luxurious refugee camps we put them into? Just because we destroy their buildings, block off food from coming to their camps at our whim, delay them for hours at checkpoints, and give their lands to our settlers they think they have a right not to praise our brilliant riches and achievements. I wonder what our capita would be if Israelis had to wait at hours for checkpoints manned by PLO or Hamas gunmen, or had their homes randomly destroyed by Arab tanks and bulldozers. I wonder what our medical technology would be like if, because of a foreign military occupation, we would depend on UN relief agencies for hospital supplies, and our ambulance drivers had to risk being pegged off by Arab army snipers who would routinely venture into Tel Aviv like we do in Gaza. I wonder what our museums and cultural centers would look like if Arab soldiers occupied them at will and defecated into copying machines and destroyed paintings by Israeli children and other such cultural collections, something very similar to what our IDF boys in green did in Palestinian towns during last year.
The Arabs should apologize for teaching their children to hate us. After all, our IDF soldiers who break into their homes, beat their parents, humiliate them at checkpoints and sometimes even take potshots at them on their way to school cannot be held accountable for Palestinian hatred of Israel. And speaking of Palestinian hatred, never mind that Yasser Arafat himsleg acknowledged that Israel has a right to exist, even while Sharon keeps on building new settlements in the West Bank. The Arabs should apologize for all of their suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism against Israelis and Americans worldwide. It would also be mandatory then for Israel to apologize for the invasion of Lebanon, the bombing of Beirut, the massacre at Qana, the murders of Palestinian children during the 1987 and the 2000 intifada, for the deaths of Rachel Corrie and Thomas Durnhall, for the recent killings of civilians in Gaza, and the list goes on. Everyone knows that if Israel were to stop the occupation, the suicide bombers would lose their public support and the terrorism would stop.
But of course our imperialist leaders won't allow this to happen. Returning what we stole from others and putting into practice a just peace would be a slap in the face to our fuhrer Ariel Sharon, who is ready to defend Zionist imperialism, regardless of how many Israelis and Palestinians will die in the process.
Helping to make a just peace would be a Jewish solution to the problem. Not a Zionist one.

Heil Sharon!
- A concerned Zionist

A QUESTION FOR GOOGLE:
Why is it that I can find Nazi helmets on Froogle, images of farmyard bestiality on Google Images, and virtually anything on Google Search, but can’t find alternative viewpoints on Google News?

A QUESTION FOR GOOGLE:
Why is it that I can find Nazi helmets on Froogle, images of farmyard bestiality on Google Images, and virtually anything on Google Search, but can’t find alternative viewpoints on Google News?

A QUESTION FOR GOOGLE:
Why is it that I can find Nazi gear on Froogle, images of farmyard bestiality on Google Images, and virtually anything on Google Search, but can’t find alternative viewpoints on Google News?

Another blast from the past.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&ie=UTF-8&q=zio-nazi&btnG=Search+News

My doctor just prescribed the enema when traveling:

"A long, moist fart."