July 4th Flag Burning: Against U.S. & Israel

Israeli occupation of the world? Are you folks completely deranged? What the fuck are you thinking? Do you use your sculls to store old rags? Jesus, this is almost to stupit to comment on!

Israeli occupation of the world? Are you folks completely deranged? What the fuck are you thinking? Do you use your sculls to store old rags? Jesus, this is almost to stupid to comment on!

the poster sais "US and Israel" occupation of the world, not simply "Israel."

you are a distorter, a liar.

do you deny that the state of israel occupies land that is not theirs? do you deny that the US has military bases in more that 100 foreign nations.

death to zionism, and to ALL of it's lying apoligists.

, and not all that smart. A better idea for dissent on the Forth would be to join everyone else on the streets and start chants like "down with king George" or "we want another revolution" (after all that's what the holiday is about), this would get a much better response than I'm sure this action got.

What I find humorous is that the person burning the Israeli flag in the one photo is hiding his face. Coward.

Palestine is not the Rebel Alliance. I know you really really want it to be, but it's not, I'm terribly sorry.

But what can one expect from Nazi-Media? I'm surprised we weren't given a drawing or a cartoon of the Zionist Master Sorcerer calling upon his minions to control the media, handle money properly, and make 3rd world countries decline.

Keep blaming it on the jews if it makes you feel better, but know that the world is on to you and your mindless drivel.

the only thing that would be achieved from yelling at the top of our lungs "down with king George" is that pur voices would be lost the following day.

would hitler have been swayed by germans protesting none violently while yelling "down with adolf the emperor?

In every other country on the earth, people understand what is meant when you burn an Israeli flag or burn a US flag. Only in the United States do you have idiots like this blabbing on about chanting "down with king george" or some other stupid thing. DEATH TO ISRAEL, DEATH TO THE USA

The posters and their fixation on Israel and Jews does reveal a great deal about their bigotry.

if they were against the idea of occupation they would add flags of countries such as China and Syria.

i am anxiously waiting for the next big earth quake to come along and pull the residents of SF into the sea so as to insure that the obviously deluded and idiotic residents there don't procreate.

The US and Israel occupy the world.....what can one say to such idiocy except on today the date of our nation's birth thank g-d that there are at least two great beacons of freedom, democracy and light in the world: the US and Israel.

God bless Pres Bush and God bless PM Sharon

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained, and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For protecting them by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us

while on the topic of national symobols-

you should check out the 'one dollar bill' it is mired with cryptic logos.

for instance: on top of the hawk that is clutching 13 swords with 1 foot and 13 leaves with the other is 'the star of david'.
the 'star of david' reappears on the front of the 'united states passport'... (a little trivia there)

"In GoD we trus"t
In the GOd of money they trust which is why churches are a none-profit ( to avoid paying a fraction of their main profit to a government).

gracing the dollar bill is a web.
(spiderman could have a field day on the buck)/
the web is the '1 world order' which is written in latin right across the bird.

"novus ordo seclorum"-
which means "order out of chaos"
They provide the chaos and their prescribed order.

big brother is signifies by the 'all seeing eye' right on top of the egyptian pyramid

pyramid signifies slavery as was during the egyptian era!

that is what is told so far...

I am glad that so many people hate the United States of America! It is really a good thing to be hated. That means that you are the best. The US has the best system of government and economy by far in the world. That is why so many people hate this nation. It is a hatred born of envy. So when I see websites such as this, it really makes me feel good. Because if people did not hate the US, then something would be wrong.

Burn as many flags as you want -> But remember that when you excercise this freedom, you have solidified yourselves as Americans, tried and true!!

don't worry the capitalist will soon stage another earth quake to hit dissident mecca of the world- the bay area...

Cohen, a former clinton appoitee has raised concerns that the technology to stage man made earthquakes and more catastrophies is no longer in the realm of potential a lone.

the war mongers stage attacks on the unassuming liberal public to contain the numbers of dissenters.

as technology advances so do their techniques

Moron, that wasn't Cohen, that was an old James Bond movie. And why would you listen to someoe named Cohen? I thought all you indymedia folks hated jews.

"Cohen, a former clinton appoitee has raised concerns that the technology to stage man made earthquakes"

Holy shit, you people really are morons. You're thinking of a James Bond movie. And why would you listen to a man named "Cohen"? Everywhere I look at indymedia makes me think you people are a front for the Aryan Nation.

Why waste your time burning Israeli flags... shouldn't you instead be trying to stop the <A TARGET="_blank" HREF="http://www.upsaid.com/watcherofweasels/index.php?action=viewcom&id=110">Zionist attempts to send genetically modified food aid to Africa?

The 'star of david' not only grace the 'one dollar bill' & the 'american passport' but also some computer keyboards.
under the following american letters:

'y'
'U'
'I'
'O'
'P'
'F'
'Z'
'X'
'C'
'V'
'B'
'N'

Oh no you might see it and become a jew!

A strange way to celebrate, but it's your right. So go at it. Burn those flags. And be sure to buy American-made flags -- it helps the economy.

Nice to see someone in the USA is able to go against the tide of patriotism and ignorance. Good job.

You Americans have it made. I wish I could burn the NZ. flag here in New Zealand, but alas that is illegal and the great tyrant Clark would toss us in Jail. But I could burn the Isreal flag though, but why??

After keeping an eye on your lot I see the same bigotry now comming from your mouths as comes from the mouths of the "right wing" Zealots and Nazis. I don't believe that a self proclaimed peace activist is a peace activist when one takes sides. Like Rachel Corrie, not a peace activist, but a partisen.

Taking sides with either Israel or the Pal's and wishing for peace is sure bullocks.

Many on this site have a knee jerk reaction to Bush. If he says Blue is a great colour, you are sure to say it is terrible. If I were you, I would start to think about your positions, and not just react. The conservitives are sure to find out and pull your puppet strings. Lead you out into the open and destroy what little ligitimicy you have.

You are a bunch of Hate Mongers, please do not bring your vile to New Zealand, we have enough of our own.

Its July 4th shouldnt you be burning a US flag? What does July 4th have to do with Israel? Israel's occupation is bad and it receives a huge amount of US money but Israel really is a small rather insignificant country....

you may think that hatred of the USA stems from envy, but for many people it is born of anger and loss. do not forget that this country was founded on the deaths of several million of native people and continues to be responsible for the deaths of millions worldwide to this day. It is sad that you think this is something to be proud of, but symptomatic of Ameican patriotism.

Nah NZ policemen dont even have the time to attend buglaries let alone catch people for burning a flag.
They are all busy taking their cultural sensitivity classes and filling out paperwork explaining exactly why they stopped the dude with the baseball bat who was trying to spill their brains all over the ground.

to "fuck israel": "death to zionism, and to ALL of it's lying apoligists."

Whenever I'm next in SF, pal. I'm due to visit after I get out of the IDF.

to "blackdawn": You start calling for revolution, in a serious manner, you're going to start being investigated by the Secret Service. So, by all means go for it.

to AmeKes: "I wish I could burn the NZ. flag here in New Zealand,"

Why? The NZ occupation of... where?

-------------------

And all of you people are Jew-hating morons.

blackdawn> down with king George

Cute. Of course, we'll have a chance to dethrown the Shrub in next year's election.

MOPSGS> Too many freaks, not enough circuses.

Ain't that the truth!

Kelly> The posters and their fixation on Israel and Jews does reveal a great deal about their bigotry. if they were against the idea of occupation they would add flags of countries such as China and Syria.

Bingo!

Despite the text of the article singling out the US and Israel, did you notice that only pictures (3 of them) of an Israeli flag being burned were included?


To the not-so-eloquent: "FUCK SHARON"

Not sure from where you Cut&Pasted that charge sheet, but NOT ONE holds true in the case of Sharon.

To the not-so-eloquent "fuck israel"

> death to zionism

Here we see the true agenda. It's not peace and coexistence, it's the destruction of Israel.

> do you deny that the state of israel occupies land that is not theirs?

As a matter of fact, yes I do. As defined by Article 2 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, this does not constitute an "occupation". As per UN Security Council Resolution 242, the Israeli administration of the disputed territories is authorized until a negotiated peace settlement is achieved.

You've been fighting that for decades, perpetrating what HRW calls "crimes against humanity" in pursuit of your unholy goald (because you must believe that the ends justify these means). This rejectionism of peace in any form didn't start in 1967, either, which is why you started the 1948 war and rejected the paradigm of compromise in 1937.

Isn't it time you tried peace?

Consider the implication of your claim that Israel is occupying someone else's land. If Israel cannot exist on land that has been Israel for 3500 years, it either cannot exist anywhere, or else it would have to exist in some other part of the world - in which case it actually would involve occupation of someone else's land. If Israel cannot exist in a place where Judaism and the Hebrew language are indigenous, where should it exist? In case you weren't clear about this, Islam and Arabic are native to Arabia - not Israel.
You really don't want Israel to exist do you? Why not be honest and simply admit your genocidal agenda? Sorry, I forgot. Honesty is not part of your game plan is it?

It's out of resentment. We're rude, vain, greedy, self righteous, arrogant, callous bullies and hypocrites, who live in unspeakable luxury by exploiting the resources and labor of the Third World. While thirty to forty thousand people a day, almost all of them children, die of starvation, we grow lawn grass and pay farmers not to grow wheat.

Our country was built by slaves on stolen land. Our founding principle was genocide. America is not about liberty, justice and the pursuit of happiness. America is about dead Natives. Yet we have the unmitigated gall to claim the world’s moral high ground, while we push it around and take for ourselves everything we can lay hands on.

No wonder we’re hated. We’re despicable.

It wasn't an old James Bond movie. It was Nicola Tesla. He invented a simple machine that caused earthquakes a century ago. It's cheap and easy to build. The plans can be found here:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q41321925

Then you are a racist who can't tell one Jew from another.

Burning an Israeli flag at a Palestinian protest has one meaning, but a bunch of white kids burning a star of david kinda looks bad

>If Israel cannot exist on land that has been Israel for 3500 years,

It has been Israel since 1948. Before that, it was Britain, before that, it was Turkey. etc.


>If Israel cannot exist in a place where Judaism and the Hebrew language are indigenous, where should it exist?


Judiasm and the Hebrew language displaced the indigenous people. They were ethnically cleansed in the most brutal fashion imaginable.


See:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1622663_comment.php#1622988


>You really don't want Israel to exist do you? Why not be honest and simply admit your genocidal agenda?

Not wanting Israel to exist is not a genocidal agenda. It’s an anti-nationalist agenda. Not wanting Jews to exist is a genocidal agenda, but Jews and Israel are not the same thing.

Selectively wanting only the one Jewish state not to exist isn't anti-nationalist, it's anti-Jewish, especially if you advocate replacing this state with a (nationalist) Palestinian Arab state.

>Selectively wanting only the one Jewish state not to exist isn't anti-nationalist, it's anti-Jewish,

(1.) I never said that Israel was the only state I wanted not to exist. I want all states to not exist.

(2.) But even if I did only want Israel to not exist, that's still not anti-Jewish. That's anti-racist, because not all Jews are Zionists and because any state based on the supremacy of a single ethnic group is, by definition, racist.

>especially if you advocate replacing this state with a (nationalist) Palestinian Arab state.

I never said that, either. I support a secular, democratic society in which it doesn't matte who your mother was. I fail to see how a state can accomplish that.

"They were ethnically cleansed in the most brutal fashion imaginable."

Read about the pogroms in Russia, the Armenian genocide, the Yugoslavian civil war and the Khmer Rouge. Fucking moron, you wouldn't know brutal if it broke in to your house and shot your children in their beds.

Which a Pali "freedom fighter" did, by the way.

Israel should have a right to extist becaue it suffered a holocaust because of these Nazis

Strawman, that's fucking bullshit.

You claim you want "no state to exist," but the only state you condemn as being fit for the trash pile is Israel.

You're the one with a racist agenda. You can blame it on Zionism all you like. But the problem is you.

That's a baldfaced lie. I condemn all states to the trashpile. The nation state is, at best, a failed experiment. At worst, it is the single greatest evil mankind has ever come up with. It is certainly the source of the most fatalities.

>Read about the pogroms in Russia, the Armenian genocide, the Yugoslavian civil war and the Khmer Rouge.

>Israel should have a right to extist becaue it suffered a holocaust because of these Nazis


What are you trying to say here, that because other people are brutal, it’s OK for you to be brutal, too?




>Fucking moron, you wouldn't know brutal if it broke in to your house and shot your children in their beds.

Which part of “utterly destroys ,” “cut off their heads, and bring the heads back,” “uses trickery to massacre,” “hamstrung all but a few of the horses,” “ripped open all the women who were pregnant,” “brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes," “Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished," "slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women,"and “have no pity on the fruit of the womb,” do you think is not easily recognized as the height of brutality by all but the most abject moral cripple?

Me> I never said that Israel was the only state I wanted not to exist. I want all states to not exist.

Funny, I've seen dozens of articles entered about Israel ceasing to exist, but not one article mentioning any other country.

Ergo the word "selective" in my comment.

But let's be sure we understand what you are saying.

You oppose the struggle for Palestinian Arab self-determination?
You are against the creation of a Palestinian Arab state?

Funny, again, that you haven't bothered voicing opposition in the dozens of articles which call for the establishment of such a nationalist state.

so you are saying that you want "'THE NEW WORLD ORDER?"

THE NEW WORLD ORDER........has no right of freedom of speech
THE NEW WORLD ORDER........has no right of freedom of assembly
THE NEW WORLD ORDER........has no right to vote
(when was the last time "you voted in the sec. gen/un election?)
THE NEW WORLD ORDER........you will have no voice, no vote, no representation....you will truly be sheep!

When you set an American or Israeli flag alight, and are feeling really smug about your heroic action, you should momentarily pause and think:

"What would happen to me if I lit up a Palistinian flag in Ramallah?"

"What would happen to me if I burned a Koran in Saudi Arabia?"

You support a zionist nationalist state yet you oppose the struggle of Palestinian self-determination
to the creation of a Palestinian nation state , which appears selective and reeks of antisemitism.

I said not such thing. A state is a state is a state. Big or little doesn't matter. Replacing the nation states of the world with one big global state would jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I say, jump out of the frying pan and onto the cook. Kill the SOB before he has us for dinner.

1. Anyone who hates Israel also hates Saudi Arabia. The United States Government supports and helps maintain the oppressive regime in Saudi Arabia, which is why we hate both of them.

2. There are protests against the Palestinian Authority in Palestine all the time. Hell, there are Palestinian assassinations of Palestinian Uncle Toms.

Learn something or kill yourself, ignorant American.

"just wondering": No, retard, what I'm saying is that the refugees created by the 1948 war (started by Arabs, BTW) is not the "most brutal fashion imagineable".

And what's with that screed?

>the refugees created by the 1948 war (started by Arabs, BTW) is not the "most brutal fashion imagineable".

Tell it to the survivors of Deir Yassin:

http://www.deiryassin.org/faq.html


> And what's with that screed

I was merely pointing out that the ethnic cleansing of non Jews from Palestine is nothing new. Those quotes were all from the Bible’s account of the first round, and referenced above. Scroll back up the page to:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1622663_comment.php#1622988

to see where the modern day ethnic cleansers got their ancient inspiration.

The new world order is the zionist state, the zionist state is not confined to Israel alone.

The United states passport proudly exhibits the star of david on its "cover" and the star of david appears once more on the American Dollar Bill, right next to a latin phrase which mean- a new world order

without zionism as a cover the new world order could not have gotten the plot of the ground.(rothschild , a zionist admitted that much)
These trouble makers remain the largest threat to society which include Jews among it too.

Well, "Me", no answers?

Me> I never said that Israel was the only state I wanted not to exist. I want all states to not exist.

Funny, I've seen dozens of articles entered about Israel ceasing to exist, but not one article mentioning any other country.

Ergo the word "selective" in my comment.

But let's be sure we understand what you are saying.

You oppose the struggle for Palestinian Arab self-determination?
You are against the creation of a Palestinian Arab state?

Funny, again, that you haven't bothered voicing opposition in the dozens of articles which call for the establishment of such a nationalist state.


?> You support a zionist nationalist state yet you oppose the struggle of Palestinian self-determination
to the creation of a Palestinian nation state , which appears selective and reeks of antisemitism.

Anti-semitism means Jew-hatred (there is no such thing as a "semitic person", only a language group).

Who said I was against the creation of (another) Palestinian Arab state?

To the contrary, unlike that "anti-ZIonist" war-mongers here, calling for Israel's destruction, I have supported the Clinton compromise which would have established such a state.

>I've seen dozens of articles entered about Israel ceasing to exist, but not one article mentioning any other country.

I don't write all the articles here. No single individual does. I'm only responsible for what I write. Blaming me for what someone else does is a typical Zionist strategy. Zionist, remember, are the people who bulldoze your house if someone else in you family is *suspected* of throwing a stone. Zionists, remember, think nothing of killing your family in the process of killing you if they think you're a leader. Then they have the unmitigated gall to claim they are more moral than their enemies. How typical to blame me for what someone else wrote or didn't write. To them, we're all alike.

I didn't say you write these.

Yet when others call for the creation of a Palestinian Arab state, or the replacement of Israel with a Muslim state, despite you being "against all states", you are silent?

YOU call for the dismantlement of Israel.
Where have you called for the dismantlement of any other state?

Please answer these questions so we can be sure we understand what you are saying.

You oppose the struggle for Palestinian Arab self-determination?
You are against the creation of a Palestinian Arab state?

<p><font size="+2">I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of <i>a Jewish State<i>. Apart from practical considerations, <b>my awareness of <i>the essential nature of Judaism</i> resists the idea of a Jewish State, with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest.</b> I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain.</font><br>-Albert Einstein, Out Of My Later Years</p>


<p>"We must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. <b>We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border</b> by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both <b>the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly</b>."<br>
-Thedore Hertzl, author and founder of Der Judenstaat</p>

Let me try to get caught up here...

Because some radical in 1899 wrote some crap about taking land, it's ok to blow up Israeli school kids?

I'm going to speed up a hundred years and re-assess the situation:

Which group is a liberal democracy?

Which group has a pluralistic market economy?

Which group allows freedom of religion?

Which group restrains its use of force, targets criminals, and maintains a legal system where the accused have rights?

Which group seeks to annihilate the other, will use any means available, and targets civilians?

These, I maintain, are more valid examinations of which side is morally in the right, than some archaic rhetoric to which few, if any, Israelis currently adhere.

"Because some radical in 1899 wrote some crap about taking land, it's ok to blow up Israeli school kids? "

- No - that's YOUR strawman argument, deliberately designed for easy attack.

I repeat - that's YOUR ARGUMENT - no one said it OR IMPLIED IT. YOU PRODUCED IT. Zionist love a good strawman.



Zionist also love to ask dubious or irrelevant questions, always expect immediate, referenced and DIRECT responses, but NEVER seem interested in extending the same courtesy when prompted.

Let me prove it to you:


What do you think Albert Einstein meant by his understanding of "the essential nature of Judaaism" that caused him to resist the idea of a Jewish State, "Dave"?


"KL?

Scottie?

Colt?

Alcutus?

"can not be tolerated"?

"Hyman Schwartzman "?

You can you complain that others don't respond to questions when virtually all of my questions are left unanswered? (People refuse to even clarify their own beliefs lest they expose their inherent contradictions.)

If you care so much for Einstein's opinions, then don't be selective. Consider this statement:

|| Zionism springs from an even deeper motive than Jewish suffering. It is rooted in a Jewish spiritual tradition whose maintenance and development are for Jews the basis of their continued existence as a community.

Why did he reject the offer to be President of Israel? He explained that he was

|| deeply touched by the offer but not suited for the position.

Get used to it. The completely democratic, secular one-state solution of Palestine-Israel with completely equal rights for all including all the Palestinian refugees is the best, most humane and progessive way towards a peaceful, just future.

Let me prove it to you:


What do you think Albert Einstein meant by his understanding of "the essential nature of Judaaism" that caused him to resist the idea of a Jewish State, "Dave"?



How did KL respond?

With information that would help enable a goy to understand what Einstein might have meant by "the essential nature of Judaaism"? - or did he produce YET ANOTHER painful obfuscation?



What do you think Albert Einstein meant?

I meant that I wanted you to quote Einstein in context (rather than with mis-spelled words).

Wow, it's amazing to what lengths these israel-hating freaks will go to. What do you think goes through someone's head when they intentionally lie and make up quotes for hte sole puprose of attacking israel? When people have no interest in actual facts or reality and instead intentionally sit and figure out new stuff to make up about israel, why do you think they do that?

First of all, albert einstein didn't say those anti-israel things that you claim, so stop making things up.

Second of all, having israel as a state and palestine as a state is not "official apartheid." Unless you're just talking about the palestine side. Jews can't live in jordan (80% of "historic palestine") and it appears jews will be banned from palestine, when palestine becomes an actual state. Muslims are not banned in israel, about 20% of israeli citizens are muslim, and they aren't being kicked out when palestine forms. These lunatics who claim "apartheid" when speaking of israel are insane, basically. Either that or they have a different definition of the word.

It's pathetic that people like KL and others who STATE FACTS AND ACTUAL ACCURATE HISTORY have to sit and refute these nutcases who literally lie and make things up, but I'm glad they're around to do it.

It's also a shame that VALID discussions about israel/neighbors have a hard time surving on these boards, because the RABID anti-israel freaks insist on carrying on a crusade, and they are more than happy to lie and make things up in the process.

If the only defense that you can muster is a feeble attempt at demeaning the spelling of posters, without ever 'actually' answering the questions that your own lies, fabrications, and racist theories bring... have a falafel.

"What do you think goes through someone's head when they intentionally lie and make up quotes for the sole purpose of attacking Israel"?

He, he, he. Who the hell knows more about making up lies than those of you out there who are trying to rewrite history in your vain attempt to remove any, and all, atrocities from your beloved little terrorist state? When it comes to lies, few do it better. The defenders of the Israeli atate invented propaganda and turned it into an art form.

"It's a shame that VALILD discussion about Israel/neighbours have a hard time surviving on these boards", blah, blah, blah, and more of the same..

That's astonishing!. I haven't seen any VALID discussion from any of the Israeli defenders yet. Except, of course, when they aren't attacking, belittling, vilifying, condemning, name calling, trying to transfer their own mindless dribble to others, etc.

This post above is SO the norm!!!

Oh, PS, and I suppose you know what Einstein said? YOU were there, hmm?

Cant see why anyone has a problem with jewish symbols. since judeism is basically incorporated into christinainty and islam a jewish symbol IS a christian or islamic symbol.

I had a look at what einstein said and it appears to me that his opinions, surprisingly, arent all that different from mine. At the risk of doing it myself I think that it is bad for you to try to co-opt his thoughts into some sort of an argument for supporting the palistinians when actually he is presenting a blanket opposition to the concept of states and other such boundaries.

These are all taken from a pro palistinian web site so the quotes themselves may be inaccurate in a left bias way (I noticed one that was very unlikely as it quoted him as talking about somthing he said in the third person).
n his testimony in January 1946 before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, and in answer to the specific question whether refugee settlement in Palestine demanded a Jewish state, Einstein stated: "The State idea is not according to my heart. I cannot understand why it is needed. It is connected with narrow-mindedness and economic obstacles. I believe that it is bad. I have always been against it. "
Now the point is he might oppose Israel but he would ALSO oppose Palestine! On that sort of level even I oppose Israel but I am also aware as i am sure Einstein is that one side cannot just wish away countries. And sometimes there will be security issues.
The problem with the understanding of Einstein here is that you fail to understand his perspective.
Here it is....
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man.... "
What conclusions you come to depend on what perspective you view the argument from.
For example from the point of view of a god you can say "everyone jsut get along"
from the point of view of israel itself you have to take it for granted that the surrounding states dont like you and that you have security issues.

"Now the point is he might oppose Israel but he would ALSO oppose Palestine!"

Scottie has a direct link to dead Albert Einstein!! Scottie you should really call a news station or something! You'll be rich in no time! And the world will be dying to know if Einstein would or would not have supported Palestine! Who cares about science. Israel is all that matters! I bet Einstein would LOVE to have a drink with Sharon!

give us any rational reason that Palestine should be trusted?

I know you cant understand english properly but

" Albert Einstein" said that he opposed the nation state. palestine would be a nation state therefore he opposes it.
If the origional quote is valid the logic is a trueism. You can wrangle out of him a quote that he opposes israel easily enough because he opposes ALL Nation states.
Just like with all these other guys I seen quoted here you cnat say for example the pope is always right (for example about iraq) except when he disagrees with you (for example maybe on contraception or some other thing).

"Albert einstein didn't say those anti-israel things that you claim, so stop making things up."

Einstein, to his credit baught a full page ad in the new york times to criticize zionist war-mongers!

When Begin came to the new york area on a fund raising mission, the Jewish intelectual who rebuffed an earlier offer to be the first president of israel, spoke against a known terrorist such as Menachem Begin who was a member of the stern gang, not known for their pacifist agenda...

Begin and other Israelis were fighting to achieve a national home for the prosecuted folks of last century.
If you have something against the Jews living free of antisemitism, then you are a clear example of modern day antisemitsm carefully hidden behind anti occupation activism

all of you are fucking antisemitic, go deal with neurosis-

First fo all Israelies are not "the" Jews. Israelis are *some* Jews.

Secondly, Israelis are not "living free of antisemitism." They are living in the only place on earth where Jews are routinely murdered, solely because they are Jews.

Even in Saddam's Iraq, Jews were safer than they are in Israel.

See:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/07/1625517.php

my understanding is that horrific repression was meted out against Jews in Iraq in the late 60's.

Arab nationalists have a long track record of anti-semitism.

what's needed in the middle east (and everywhere else!) is trans-ethnic/relgious/national struggle against the exploiters and their sycophants.

I seriously doubt Einstein said this " to criticize zionist war-mongers! "
as to percecution in israel a few tens of people get killed each year out of 6 million by "percecution". I expect there have and are many worse places than that for jews. There may also be safer places too of course.
As to iraq in one day iraq killed a higher proportion of jews than the intefadah has killled in its entire period.
That sadam keeping down those pesky elder zionists eh?

Which day was that? Be specific.

When others call for the creation of a Palestinian Arab state, or the replacement of Israel with a Muslim state, despite you being "against all states", you are silent?

YOU call for the dismantlement of Israel.
Where have you called for the dismantlement of any other state?

Please answer these questions so we can be sure we understand what you are saying.

You oppose the struggle for Palestinian Arab self-determination?
You are against the creation of a Palestinian Arab state?

No, death to Palestine. You can hope against hope that Israel will lose, but you know they won't. Palestinians have one thing left to lose; their lives. This will be taken from them if they proceed down the course they are currently on. If you think otherwise, you are mistaken. EAT IT, PALESTINE, and DIRTY PALESTINIAN SUPPORTERS! Your ineptitude shall be your undoing, losers.

Thats a horable thing to do to the isreali flag i was born in jerusalem and that site of them burning the isreali flag my flag the flag of which i was born under made me cry. I dont understand how would they like if they burnt your flag the american flag i dont think so some people in are stupid not just isreal and the u.s but everywere around the world it dosnt meen we have to burn their flags. Je Ne Comprend Pas. C'est Du Foli.

Jews For Lyfe
These people make me sick its disgusting to see whats happening to the world today
im 13 years old i cried to see this i couldnt beleive it .
i was born in jerusalem so was my mom my father is marrocan M4L and I4L dirty sags of shit have nothing better to do then this Fuk Them that horible.
Im glad i live in canada now if i lived in the states id id go to san francisco and show them how to respect
Canadfa is the peice contrey wanna burn our flag to you fukers.
Isreal 4 Lyfe

i wanna burn every flag to ashes, we have a right to fight against corporate leadership...im not your tool, nor do i plan i being used, go get a heart and look around you at sickness and dieing. Look between the black and white adn you will find the color red , from the blood of many innocent lives

"i wanna burn every flag to ashes..."

hey brite, does that include those black flags the anarchists wave around at demos?