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Indybay Feature
Network and Talk Radio Instigating Pro-War Rallies
Who has been organizing those pro-war rallies? The answer, it turns out, is that they are being promoted by key players in the radio industry — with close links to the Bush administration.
March 25, 2003
Channels of Influence
By PAUL KRUGMAN
By and large, recent pro-war rallies haven't drawn nearly as many people as antiwar rallies, but they have certainly been vehement. One of the most striking took place after Natalie Maines, lead singer for the Dixie Chicks, criticized President Bush: a crowd gathered in Louisiana to watch a 33,000-pound tractor smash a collection of Dixie Chicks CD's, tapes and other paraphernalia. To those familiar with 20th-century European history it seemed eerily reminiscent of. . . . But as Sinclair Lewis said, it can't happen here.
Who has been organizing those pro-war rallies? The answer, it turns out, is that they are being promoted by key players in the radio industry — with close links to the Bush administration.
The CD-smashing rally was organized by KRMD, part of Cumulus Media, a radio chain that has banned the Dixie Chicks from its playlists. Most of the pro-war demonstrations around the country have, however, been organized by stations owned by Clear Channel Communications, a behemoth based in San Antonio that controls more than 1,200 stations and increasingly dominates the airwaves.
The company claims that the demonstrations, which go under the name Rally for America, reflect the initiative of individual stations. But this is unlikely: according to Eric Boehlert, who has written revelatory articles about Clear Channel in Salon, the company is notorious — and widely hated — for its iron-fisted centralized control.
Until now, complaints about Clear Channel have focused on its business practices. Critics say it uses its power to squeeze recording companies and artists and contributes to the growing blandness of broadcast music. But now the company appears to be using its clout to help one side in a political dispute that deeply divides the nation.
Why would a media company insert itself into politics this way? It could, of course, simply be a matter of personal conviction on the part of management. But there are also good reasons for Clear Channel — which became a giant only in the last few years, after the Telecommunications Act of 1996 removed many restrictions on media ownership — to curry favor with the ruling party. On one side, Clear Channel is feeling some heat: it is being sued over allegations that it threatens to curtail the airplay of artists who don't tour with its concert division, and there are even some politicians who want to roll back the deregulation that made the company's growth possible. On the other side, the Federal Communications Commission is considering further deregulation that would allow Clear Channel to expand even further, particularly into television.
Or perhaps the quid pro quo is more narrowly focused. Experienced Bushologists let out a collective "Aha!" when Clear Channel was revealed to be behind the pro-war rallies, because the company's top management has a history with George W. Bush. The vice chairman of Clear Channel is Tom Hicks, whose name may be familiar to readers of this column. When Mr. Bush was governor of Texas, Mr. Hicks was chairman of the University of Texas Investment Management Company, called Utimco, and Clear Channel's chairman, Lowry Mays, was on its board. Under Mr. Hicks, Utimco placed much of the university's endowment under the management of companies with strong Republican Party or Bush family ties. In 1998 Mr. Hicks purchased the Texas Rangers in a deal that made Mr. Bush a multimillionaire.
There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear, but a good guess is that we're now seeing the next stage in the evolution of a new American oligarchy. As Jonathan Chait has written in The New Republic, in the Bush administration "government and business have melded into one big `us.' " On almost every aspect of domestic policy, business interests rule: "Scores of midlevel appointees . . . now oversee industries for which they once worked." We should have realized that this is a two-way street: if politicians are busy doing favors for businesses that support them, why shouldn't we expect businesses to reciprocate by doing favors for those politicians — by, for example, organizing "grass roots" rallies on their behalf?
What makes it all possible, of course, is the absence of effective watchdogs. In the Clinton years the merest hint of impropriety quickly blew up into a huge scandal; these days, the scandalmongers are more likely to go after journalists who raise questions. Anyway, don't you know there's a war on?
Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
Channels of Influence
By PAUL KRUGMAN
By and large, recent pro-war rallies haven't drawn nearly as many people as antiwar rallies, but they have certainly been vehement. One of the most striking took place after Natalie Maines, lead singer for the Dixie Chicks, criticized President Bush: a crowd gathered in Louisiana to watch a 33,000-pound tractor smash a collection of Dixie Chicks CD's, tapes and other paraphernalia. To those familiar with 20th-century European history it seemed eerily reminiscent of. . . . But as Sinclair Lewis said, it can't happen here.
Who has been organizing those pro-war rallies? The answer, it turns out, is that they are being promoted by key players in the radio industry — with close links to the Bush administration.
The CD-smashing rally was organized by KRMD, part of Cumulus Media, a radio chain that has banned the Dixie Chicks from its playlists. Most of the pro-war demonstrations around the country have, however, been organized by stations owned by Clear Channel Communications, a behemoth based in San Antonio that controls more than 1,200 stations and increasingly dominates the airwaves.
The company claims that the demonstrations, which go under the name Rally for America, reflect the initiative of individual stations. But this is unlikely: according to Eric Boehlert, who has written revelatory articles about Clear Channel in Salon, the company is notorious — and widely hated — for its iron-fisted centralized control.
Until now, complaints about Clear Channel have focused on its business practices. Critics say it uses its power to squeeze recording companies and artists and contributes to the growing blandness of broadcast music. But now the company appears to be using its clout to help one side in a political dispute that deeply divides the nation.
Why would a media company insert itself into politics this way? It could, of course, simply be a matter of personal conviction on the part of management. But there are also good reasons for Clear Channel — which became a giant only in the last few years, after the Telecommunications Act of 1996 removed many restrictions on media ownership — to curry favor with the ruling party. On one side, Clear Channel is feeling some heat: it is being sued over allegations that it threatens to curtail the airplay of artists who don't tour with its concert division, and there are even some politicians who want to roll back the deregulation that made the company's growth possible. On the other side, the Federal Communications Commission is considering further deregulation that would allow Clear Channel to expand even further, particularly into television.
Or perhaps the quid pro quo is more narrowly focused. Experienced Bushologists let out a collective "Aha!" when Clear Channel was revealed to be behind the pro-war rallies, because the company's top management has a history with George W. Bush. The vice chairman of Clear Channel is Tom Hicks, whose name may be familiar to readers of this column. When Mr. Bush was governor of Texas, Mr. Hicks was chairman of the University of Texas Investment Management Company, called Utimco, and Clear Channel's chairman, Lowry Mays, was on its board. Under Mr. Hicks, Utimco placed much of the university's endowment under the management of companies with strong Republican Party or Bush family ties. In 1998 Mr. Hicks purchased the Texas Rangers in a deal that made Mr. Bush a multimillionaire.
There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear, but a good guess is that we're now seeing the next stage in the evolution of a new American oligarchy. As Jonathan Chait has written in The New Republic, in the Bush administration "government and business have melded into one big `us.' " On almost every aspect of domestic policy, business interests rule: "Scores of midlevel appointees . . . now oversee industries for which they once worked." We should have realized that this is a two-way street: if politicians are busy doing favors for businesses that support them, why shouldn't we expect businesses to reciprocate by doing favors for those politicians — by, for example, organizing "grass roots" rallies on their behalf?
What makes it all possible, of course, is the absence of effective watchdogs. In the Clinton years the merest hint of impropriety quickly blew up into a huge scandal; these days, the scandalmongers are more likely to go after journalists who raise questions. Anyway, don't you know there's a war on?
Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
For more information:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/25/opinion/...
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Not only does Clear Channel own tons of Radio stations and do all sorts of other scandalous stuff like organizing pro-war rallies, but they also own TONS of billboards all across the country. Sooo......
Wouldn't it be very interesting if people happened to, say, use a billboard owned by a pro-war company to do something like.... write anti-war graffitti....?
Direct Action for a Peaceful Solution
DAPS
Wouldn't it be very interesting if people happened to, say, use a billboard owned by a pro-war company to do something like.... write anti-war graffitti....?
Direct Action for a Peaceful Solution
DAPS
Clear channel also owns or runs venues like the Warfield and Fillmore in SF, Shoreline and Greek Theater. Actions/boycotts against these venues by groups and, especially, performing artists would be useful.
For a list of Clear Channel venues see:
http://www.clearchannel.com/entertainment/venue.php
For radio stations see:
http://www.clearchannel.com/radio/search.php
For a list of Clear Channel venues see:
http://www.clearchannel.com/entertainment/venue.php
For radio stations see:
http://www.clearchannel.com/radio/search.php
Mr. Paul Krugman's accusations in his above referenced article are absolutely incorrect!! I was on the committe to help organize the "Rally for America" in Sacramento on March 22, 2003. I, along with many others, contributed personal funds to help. Even my mother from Bakersfield, CA sent a check to help! Our employer wrote a check to help purchase supplies for signs, the rental of the P.A. system, among other expenses. This rally was emceed by Mark Williams of KFBK as a donation of his time because he is a PATRIOT! KFBK radio did not sponsor this rally. This rally was imagined by one young lady named Dawn Setters who saw the need to counter act the animosities demonstrated by the anti-war "peace" activists. These people who do nothing but show violent contempt to disrupt our government do not deserve to breathe the same air I breathe! The anti-war freaks who are preaching "peace" are the same criminals who are commiting civil disobedience violations with no regard to other people's safety. Isn't this slightly hypocritical? The good spirited folks who participate in the "Rallys for America" are the true HEARTS OF AMERICA who appreciate living in this LAND OF THE FREE, HOME OF THE BRAVE, AND ONE NATION UNDER GOD!
With most high regards to our President and to our Military, Sherrie Morrison, Yolo, CA.
With most high regards to our President and to our Military, Sherrie Morrison, Yolo, CA.
Clear Channel is the sonoma county station, TV 50. they have equally biased and misleading broadcasts. they're active in Marin and SF....please hit them with emails and calls!
JohnBurgess [at] clearchannel.com - he's their general manager. The only coverage we get of the SF actions are of violence being excercised upon the protestors, and then blame being put upon the activists! Please speak up about this!
JohnBurgess [at] clearchannel.com - he's their general manager. The only coverage we get of the SF actions are of violence being excercised upon the protestors, and then blame being put upon the activists! Please speak up about this!
Not only does ClearChannel own talk radio and billboards, they're also a major contributor to Tom Ammiano's campaing. That's why he's working to fine the falsely-arrested protestors to make up the budget.
I THINK WAR IS GOOD. WE REALLY CARE ABOUT THE IRAQI PEEPLE!!! I BELIEVE WHAT MY PREZIDENT TELLS ME BECUZ I AM AMERICAN.
There was a post here objecting to characterizing people you don't like as "morons", because some of us are born with developmental differences and can't achieve normal mentation. You wouldn't use any other charged term, with racial or sexual or whatever... why imply that those of us with cereberal differences are worth less than others?
That post of objection was removed by an IndyMedia editor, while letting the slur against morons remain.
(They also, of course, let the slur against dissenters remain... if you want to be treated with respect, then disrespecting others is not the best way to get there.)
That post of objection was removed by an IndyMedia editor, while letting the slur against morons remain.
(They also, of course, let the slur against dissenters remain... if you want to be treated with respect, then disrespecting others is not the best way to get there.)
I am disgusted by the image of those pigs wearing flags on their heads. The same pigs that defile the Constitution with their abuse of citizens exercising their right of free speech. What a terrible desecration of the flag.
The Chronicle hired an independent company to take aerial photos of the rally, just as we did for the antiwar protests. This was done for both balance and accuracy. The photographs permitted an exact crowd count at the peak of the demonstration. A total of 43 people attended the pro-war rally, with an additional 23 police.
It is uncertain if the 43 'attendees' were actually attending the rally, or were simply passing by.
-Carl Nolte
It is uncertain if the 43 'attendees' were actually attending the rally, or were simply passing by.
-Carl Nolte
Mr. Paul Krugman's accusations are absolute lies!! Regarding the Rally for America in Sacramento on March 22,along with many others, I contributed personal funds to help. Even my mother from Bakersfield, CA sent a check to help! Our employer wrote a check to help with expenses. This rally was emceed by Mark Williams of KFBK as a donation of his time because he is a PATRIOT! KFBK radio did not sponsor this rally. This rally was imagined by one young lady named Dawn Setters, who followed through and made it REAL. . The anti-war peace freaks, who do nothing but show violent contempt to disrupt our government ,do not even deserve to breathe the same air I breathe! The anti-war freaks who are preaching "peace" are the same criminals who are commiting civil disobedience violations with no regard to other people's safety. Isn't this slightly hypocritical? The good spirited, peaceful folks who support our military in the "Rallys for America" are the true HEARTS OF AMERICA who appreciate living in this LAND OF THE FREE, HOME OF THE BRAVE, AND ONE NATION UNDER GOD! Mr. Krugman, GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! STOP REPORTING LIES! A LIAR MAKES NOT FOR GOOD CHARACTER!
"The anti-war peace freaks, who do nothing but show violent contempt to disrupt our government ,do not even deserve to breathe the same air I breathe!"
You know what Sherri, I am one of those "anti-war peace freaks" and I gave 5 years of my life serving my country, I am sure I deserve to breath this air!
"The good spirited, peaceful folks who support our military in the "Rallys for America" are the true HEARTS OF AMERICA"
How are you supporting the troops? By mindlessly standing out there holding a flag for them? Is that going to help them while they are there watching their buddies get their brains blown out! Why don't you help them by questioning why they are there in the first place because it's NOT freedom they are fighting for. Do you have a loved one out there? Because I DO!
"LAND OF THE FREE, HOME OF THE BRAVE"
How did this nation come to be the "land of the free and home of the brave"? Have you studied your history Sherri? All the civil liberties we have in this country were fought for. Now more than ever, we need to question the government and their actions. I am sorry that you feel ALL of the people protesting this war are violent and "the same as criminals". Is that your opinion of all the people that fought and protested for womens rights? The rights that you are enjoying today. It is our right to protest according to THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, AMENDMENT I. If you have a problem with that you should move to a country that doesn't allow freedom of speech.
You know what Sherri, I am one of those "anti-war peace freaks" and I gave 5 years of my life serving my country, I am sure I deserve to breath this air!
"The good spirited, peaceful folks who support our military in the "Rallys for America" are the true HEARTS OF AMERICA"
How are you supporting the troops? By mindlessly standing out there holding a flag for them? Is that going to help them while they are there watching their buddies get their brains blown out! Why don't you help them by questioning why they are there in the first place because it's NOT freedom they are fighting for. Do you have a loved one out there? Because I DO!
"LAND OF THE FREE, HOME OF THE BRAVE"
How did this nation come to be the "land of the free and home of the brave"? Have you studied your history Sherri? All the civil liberties we have in this country were fought for. Now more than ever, we need to question the government and their actions. I am sorry that you feel ALL of the people protesting this war are violent and "the same as criminals". Is that your opinion of all the people that fought and protested for womens rights? The rights that you are enjoying today. It is our right to protest according to THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, AMENDMENT I. If you have a problem with that you should move to a country that doesn't allow freedom of speech.
Last Friday (M21), I saw another 'pig in a flag' out in the street on a motorcycle smirking at demonstrators.
Sherrie,
I am sorry you, your mother, and many others contributed to such a mockery of democracy. The vast majority of war protestors around the world are quite peaceful. No doubt amped-up by the biased coverage of protests, brought to you by the corporations that bring us the war, you take the actions of a few bad seeds and let them spoil your vision of thousands of concerned citizens. There will always be the few belligerents ready to take advantage of marches to deliver their hate-filled, irreverently anarchistic messages in police-bashing, window-smashing fashion. The very aire of your comments reeks of zealous elitism. The right to breathe your air is shared by every organism that graces this fair Earth.
The reasons for the people to preach peace to our war-mongering government are manifold. Why would the Bush administration ignore the advice of key allies and the world at large about how the disarmament of Sadaam Hussein should occur? Probably the same reason why a rich boy like Bush had never traveled out of the USA before being elected to the highest office in the nation. What a farce, the epitome of cronyism when the CIA is quoted in 'The New Yorker', a mainstream publication, as having forged key documents in the investigation of WMD's in Iraq, or when a subsidiary of Halliburton gets the top ticket for the petroleum cleanup after the war. Follow the money Sherrie.
It is certainly sad to see so many people, many of them American soldiers who joined to get an edge on life not to engage in urban warfare, die at the whims of big businesses and their corrupt political partners. The 70% total U.S. popular support for the war was a Gallup Poll, which does not reveal how its polls are conducted. As a scientist, I know the importance of methodology in the outcome of tests. Try to find some more broad sources of information (DW, BBC, New York Times International Herald, etc.), cross-reference, do the research. Try not to allow multi-billion dollar corporations do your thinking for you.
The smugness of the Bush administration's contempt for diplomacy and the continual reinforcement of U.S. superior technology in broadcasts from CNN to FOX News have made enemies out of friends and show the world what total disregard for humanity our elected officials have. This is only the beginning of a terrible period in the history of humankind. Violence only begets violence, our European friends went through the cycle too many times- they understand. Don’t shut them out with foolish debauchery of their names. There are innocent human beings being killed in our names with our money. I wish I had the choice to take that power away from Bush. With all of the inhumanity occurring now and that which is spurned I'm am saddened to the depths of my heart.
I am sorry you, your mother, and many others contributed to such a mockery of democracy. The vast majority of war protestors around the world are quite peaceful. No doubt amped-up by the biased coverage of protests, brought to you by the corporations that bring us the war, you take the actions of a few bad seeds and let them spoil your vision of thousands of concerned citizens. There will always be the few belligerents ready to take advantage of marches to deliver their hate-filled, irreverently anarchistic messages in police-bashing, window-smashing fashion. The very aire of your comments reeks of zealous elitism. The right to breathe your air is shared by every organism that graces this fair Earth.
The reasons for the people to preach peace to our war-mongering government are manifold. Why would the Bush administration ignore the advice of key allies and the world at large about how the disarmament of Sadaam Hussein should occur? Probably the same reason why a rich boy like Bush had never traveled out of the USA before being elected to the highest office in the nation. What a farce, the epitome of cronyism when the CIA is quoted in 'The New Yorker', a mainstream publication, as having forged key documents in the investigation of WMD's in Iraq, or when a subsidiary of Halliburton gets the top ticket for the petroleum cleanup after the war. Follow the money Sherrie.
It is certainly sad to see so many people, many of them American soldiers who joined to get an edge on life not to engage in urban warfare, die at the whims of big businesses and their corrupt political partners. The 70% total U.S. popular support for the war was a Gallup Poll, which does not reveal how its polls are conducted. As a scientist, I know the importance of methodology in the outcome of tests. Try to find some more broad sources of information (DW, BBC, New York Times International Herald, etc.), cross-reference, do the research. Try not to allow multi-billion dollar corporations do your thinking for you.
The smugness of the Bush administration's contempt for diplomacy and the continual reinforcement of U.S. superior technology in broadcasts from CNN to FOX News have made enemies out of friends and show the world what total disregard for humanity our elected officials have. This is only the beginning of a terrible period in the history of humankind. Violence only begets violence, our European friends went through the cycle too many times- they understand. Don’t shut them out with foolish debauchery of their names. There are innocent human beings being killed in our names with our money. I wish I had the choice to take that power away from Bush. With all of the inhumanity occurring now and that which is spurned I'm am saddened to the depths of my heart.
Why don't you pro-war thugs fuck off and die. You have destroyed this country. You have looted it's treasury and trust funds, and obliterated what was left of the economy. Thanks to your ignorance, you have allowed the arrogant and ignorant psychopath Rumsfeld to deploy our troops into a horrible situation. They are not being greeted with flowers, but with bullets. What does that say? You have turned Saddam Hussein from a pariah to a hero. Are you happy now? You neo-con idiots can't even run a war against a bombed out third world country. You fuck up everything you touch.
An now your heroes are cutting the VA's budget by billions, just in time for the next wave of sick and mentally ill vets to come home. Are you happy, you sacks of shit? I wish the hell our boys are going through, and the hell the people of Iraq are going through, on every one of you Neo-con thugs.
You have destroyed our Republic. Happy?
Chickenhawk down! Chickenhawk down!
An now your heroes are cutting the VA's budget by billions, just in time for the next wave of sick and mentally ill vets to come home. Are you happy, you sacks of shit? I wish the hell our boys are going through, and the hell the people of Iraq are going through, on every one of you Neo-con thugs.
You have destroyed our Republic. Happy?
Chickenhawk down! Chickenhawk down!
Spare me your psyops drivel. If I wanted that I would watch Fox news.
You hoisted yourself on your own petard, dick.
"since when do Leftist bed-wetters give a flying crap about the amount of money in the VA?"
Answer: always.
"This cut is more than what the Administration wants. " How much does the administration want to cut? They have already ordered the VA to not inform vets of their full benefits. Why?
You hypocrites. Quit apologizing for the psychos in the White House.
"This is a campaign that is methodically attempting to free an oppressed people"
Then why are they fighting back? According to the neo-cons. The south should have risen by now, the country should have revolted after two days, and our troops should have been in Baghdad in five. You dipshits have successfully thrust the Iraqi people into Saddams arms. Good job. He is now pulling a Joe Stalin. Only a collection of ignorant neanderathals like the Bush administration could fail in a PR war with Saddam.
To reiterate, your heroes are incompetent, bumbling, ideologues and crooks who have turned America into a pariah nation. That is no easy achievement.
And why don't you and the other chickenhawks get your pull the twinkie out of your faces and get your fat asses over to Iraq and do some of the dying, if you're so pro-war.
By the way, I know all of your heroes in the Bush Administration dodged Vietnam, but didn't they at least read about it? Fucking assholes.
You hoisted yourself on your own petard, dick.
"since when do Leftist bed-wetters give a flying crap about the amount of money in the VA?"
Answer: always.
"This cut is more than what the Administration wants. " How much does the administration want to cut? They have already ordered the VA to not inform vets of their full benefits. Why?
You hypocrites. Quit apologizing for the psychos in the White House.
"This is a campaign that is methodically attempting to free an oppressed people"
Then why are they fighting back? According to the neo-cons. The south should have risen by now, the country should have revolted after two days, and our troops should have been in Baghdad in five. You dipshits have successfully thrust the Iraqi people into Saddams arms. Good job. He is now pulling a Joe Stalin. Only a collection of ignorant neanderathals like the Bush administration could fail in a PR war with Saddam.
To reiterate, your heroes are incompetent, bumbling, ideologues and crooks who have turned America into a pariah nation. That is no easy achievement.
And why don't you and the other chickenhawks get your pull the twinkie out of your faces and get your fat asses over to Iraq and do some of the dying, if you're so pro-war.
By the way, I know all of your heroes in the Bush Administration dodged Vietnam, but didn't they at least read about it? Fucking assholes.
SF Indymedia site should keep an updated list of all CCC owned companies. Information helps the people to decide if and when they wish to do business with any of these companies.
The country is six percent of humanity. The whole world is against this war. The warmongers are outnumbered billions to one.
How dare you say I don't deserve to breath the same air as you! You have taken this land from my people just as you are about to take the land and oil from the people of Iraq! Shame on you! Spout your pro war garbage to the corporate media, and leave us alone.
I am against this war for profit, an I am a native American and a 5th generation San Franciscan, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!!!!
I am against this war for profit, an I am a native American and a 5th generation San Franciscan, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!!!!
Dear Native American,
I am a member of the Muscogee Creek Indian Tribe so don't even begin to whine to me about YOUR LAND! Now you can take your foot out of your mouth and my foot out of your ass! I take care of myself TODAY and don't use the PAST as an excuse for my shortcomings.
I am a member of the Muscogee Creek Indian Tribe so don't even begin to whine to me about YOUR LAND! Now you can take your foot out of your mouth and my foot out of your ass! I take care of myself TODAY and don't use the PAST as an excuse for my shortcomings.
Tom Ammiano? Are you insane? No, you are an idiottttttttt!!!!
It's Tony Hall, the rightwing fascist on the SF Board of Supervisors, who is trying to get the protesters to pay -not Tom Ammiano. Tom was the only Supervisor who showed up to speak at one of the anti-war rallies that I attended.
Tom does not accept contributions from lobbyists and that means no corporate contributions. So it's highly unlikely that Clear Channel is giving him money. It's not hard to look this info up as it is part of the public record - so why don't you check your sources before spewing crap that is harmful to the only candidate in the mayor's race that will stand up against the moneyed interests.
I'll bet this isn't just an honest error by knee-jerk illiterate moron. I'll bet you are paid to spread false rumors like these. You should be so proud of yourself.
It's Tony Hall, the rightwing fascist on the SF Board of Supervisors, who is trying to get the protesters to pay -not Tom Ammiano. Tom was the only Supervisor who showed up to speak at one of the anti-war rallies that I attended.
Tom does not accept contributions from lobbyists and that means no corporate contributions. So it's highly unlikely that Clear Channel is giving him money. It's not hard to look this info up as it is part of the public record - so why don't you check your sources before spewing crap that is harmful to the only candidate in the mayor's race that will stand up against the moneyed interests.
I'll bet this isn't just an honest error by knee-jerk illiterate moron. I'll bet you are paid to spread false rumors like these. You should be so proud of yourself.
For more information:
http://www.indybay.org/comment.php?top_id=...
It's so ironic that you people are bitching about clear channel. One of their billboards in SF has an anti-war message on it. You people are bufoons. Quit wasting your lives, get a job and be productive citizens. You are truly misinformed.
Doesn't Clear Channel know that, except for ending slavery, nazism, and fascism, war has never solved anything?
I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"
Now I know why.
I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"
Now I know why.
Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.
On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.
On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers.
I will not be manipulated.
I will not pretend to understand.
I will not forget.
I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.
I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."
I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."
And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely -- nor should they be expected -- to show deference."
I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America.
I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.
I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.
I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly, "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport.
I will not be influenced by so called, "antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the right of _expression to chant anti-American obscenities.
I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines.
I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality.
I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told the Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?
There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"
I will force myself to:
-feel the helplessness
-imagine the terror
-sense the panic
-smell the burning flesh
- experience the loss
- remember the hatred.
I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?"
Now I know.
We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.
-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.
Hatred begets hatred....Violence will only beget violence. Taking over a country full of warring tribes is not likely to bring democracy any time soon. So let's be honest and ask why should we go it alone?
Where are you getting your figures from? The majority of Americans support the war. Just because there have been many Americans that have been protesting the war doesn't mean that we all feel taht way. People who are pro wardon't feel the need to crowd streets and disturb traffic with their thoughts.
Americans are only 6% of humanity. The rest of the world overwhelmingly opposs this war. Most hate us for the aggressors we are. Bush has mad the world unsafe for Americans. No American will be safe anywhere. Retribution WILL come.
this idea that over 70% of americans suport Bush's decision to go to war, where do they get this figure, I was never asked my opinion nor was anyone I know in Oregon, I wonder how these "polls" are conducted, by whom and how it is that many of the citizens of the US were not made aware of this poll. Then again I have to wonder of the source of the infromation as I have only heard that number mentioned by Clear Channel representitives.
Also, Pro-Peace does not mean that we do not care about our soldiers, we want pace and that would be the best suport we could offer them, home safe with their families.
Back on the idea of polls, where did the poll that over 40% of americans think Iraq was behind the attacks on 9-11 come from, again I was never aware any such poll was ever conducted
Also, Pro-Peace does not mean that we do not care about our soldiers, we want pace and that would be the best suport we could offer them, home safe with their families.
Back on the idea of polls, where did the poll that over 40% of americans think Iraq was behind the attacks on 9-11 come from, again I was never aware any such poll was ever conducted
This is how a poll is conducted:
Determine the total population of people.
Determine a confidence interval.
Calculate a sample size to satisfy the confidence interval given the total population size.
Randomly survey the sample (in this case, probably a telephone survey) -- the numbers are randomly chosen from the list of all known US telephone number possibilities.
Do the math.
Determine the total population of people.
Determine a confidence interval.
Calculate a sample size to satisfy the confidence interval given the total population size.
Randomly survey the sample (in this case, probably a telephone survey) -- the numbers are randomly chosen from the list of all known US telephone number possibilities.
Do the math.
It is not enough to say a poll is well conducted. Interpretation may be biased and questions may be shallow and leading.
Americans are only 6% of humanity.
Those steps for conducting a survey are only if it is random sample. Sometimes surveys are done that are non-random and do not represent the population, only the sample. Which is fine. Unless people misunderstand them...
If Americans are only 6% of humanity, please tell me what percentage is communist, socialist, fascist, marxist or dictators who want to undermine the United States? Do you think the "humanity" in many muslim countries want to give women equal rights? Do you understand that there is a world war going on right now? What is the the cause of 9/11? Conflict in - Bosnia? Kosovo? Philippines? Indonesia? Kashmir? Chechnya? All of these problems are related to Islamic Fundamentalism. The liberty we have should be enjoyed by the rest of humanity. Only then will the world be better able to be tolerant of all religions, races and sexes. Only then will peace activists come closer to what all "humanity" wants - a chance for peace.
All of these problems are a direct response to western exploitation of the Third World.
9/11 was. if we can believe the official "Osama-did-it version" of the story, was the direct result of American troops occupying part of Osama's homeland. If Saudi troops occupied part of your homeland, would you stand by and let them? If so, how can you call yourself a patriot?
9/11 was. if we can believe the official "Osama-did-it version" of the story, was the direct result of American troops occupying part of Osama's homeland. If Saudi troops occupied part of your homeland, would you stand by and let them? If so, how can you call yourself a patriot?
I didn't know that the western civilization was exploting
Bosnia, Kosovo, Philippines, Indonesia, Kashmir & Chechnya. I imagine there must be a McDonalds in at least one or two of these countries (providing employment & wages.)
As you may know your U. S. history, even americans were exploted by American and European companies over the last 300 years. Get over it! Countries like Japan, Korea, China, Mexico, Taiwan, Indonesia and India who have been "exploted" for cheap labor are now economic powers. The standards of living are better. They have taken our equiptment and know how to create their own companies and products. Education and work skills are continually improving. But I sense a great deal of anger towards america from you. Maybe you should channel your energy understanding Darwinism.
Bosnia, Kosovo, Philippines, Indonesia, Kashmir & Chechnya. I imagine there must be a McDonalds in at least one or two of these countries (providing employment & wages.)
As you may know your U. S. history, even americans were exploted by American and European companies over the last 300 years. Get over it! Countries like Japan, Korea, China, Mexico, Taiwan, Indonesia and India who have been "exploted" for cheap labor are now economic powers. The standards of living are better. They have taken our equiptment and know how to create their own companies and products. Education and work skills are continually improving. But I sense a great deal of anger towards america from you. Maybe you should channel your energy understanding Darwinism.
You would call yourself a patriot slamming a plane into a Saudi Arabian building killing 2500 innocent civillians, not attacking their military or ruling class? You would only increase the resolve of the military. I don't think you have thought through your arguement very well.
you ppl are getting a lil extreme.. remember when debating no personal insults such as moron whatever.. (pig is perfectly alowed though since its truthful) so anyway about polling: if u polled people in SF u'd get a much different anti war ratio then you would in texas.. i think the only TRUE way of finding out who's against the war is having an official voting thing (like with the elections) where everyone over 12 can vote (i think under 12 they just do what their parents say) you'd need more than 2 options though.. u'd need options like "think war isn't the best ans. but something must be done" and things like that.. we're not all closed minded like shrub..
"Determine the total population of people."
by how many times do i have to say this? Friday April 04, 2003 at 10:25 PM
Americans are only 6% of humanity.
--------------------
Population is a term in statistics referring to the group about which the researcher wishes to draw conclusions. Obviously, the total populatipn of this study is limited to American adults.
by how many times do i have to say this? Friday April 04, 2003 at 10:25 PM
Americans are only 6% of humanity.
--------------------
Population is a term in statistics referring to the group about which the researcher wishes to draw conclusions. Obviously, the total populatipn of this study is limited to American adults.
Nessie maybe I misjudged you.....ROCK ON!!!!!!!!
Where I live, 99% of the people support this war. They are not insane, misled, or psychotic. They are hardworking, good-hearted, and educated. They think the risk of this action was outweighed by the benefit.
It doesn't matter that 6% of humanity is American. That doesn't mean that the other 94% is opposed, if they're even aware of what is going on. What % of America is San Fransisco's population? I assure you, sentiment in SF is not reflective of the American people at large.
BTW - I read an interesting article the other day about how the wealthy of SF have been keeping out lower income people through zoning in the name of environmentalism. Could it be the case that, because SF is so exclusive, the people you know are not a good sample? How can it be when you have little middle or lower class?
It doesn't matter that 6% of humanity is American. That doesn't mean that the other 94% is opposed, if they're even aware of what is going on. What % of America is San Fransisco's population? I assure you, sentiment in SF is not reflective of the American people at large.
BTW - I read an interesting article the other day about how the wealthy of SF have been keeping out lower income people through zoning in the name of environmentalism. Could it be the case that, because SF is so exclusive, the people you know are not a good sample? How can it be when you have little middle or lower class?
The fact that the vast majority of Americans supports this war does not mattter to me. If anything, it's evidence that the vast right wing conspiracy has grown more vast - to the point that 80-90% of Americans are now involved in conspiring against the rest of us>
Keep the faith!
Keep the faith!
Leave it to the New York Times to sponsor such drivel. Purely innuendo if not outright lies. Questionable at best
Here are some random polling results to compare:
Also of interest might be 84% of Canadians think US bears some or all responsibility for World Trade Centre attacks on 11/09 due to their Middle East policies.
But when 55% (washington post) of Americans think that "strong" evidence linking Iraq to al Qaeda has been presented (there's been zero evidence), well...
Matt says: "even americans were exploted by American and European companies over the last 300 years. Get over it! Countries like Japan, Korea, China, Mexico, Taiwan, Indonesia and India who have been "exploted" for cheap labor are now economic powers. The standards of living are better"
Oh, so being exploited/ takenover is now good for you? We should all pray for the USA to first bomb/decimate, and then rebuild us because that's the only way to betterment? What kind of paternal nonsense is this. And if it is true, why won't you take a little of your own medicine. Who made you, Matt, or your country, the guardian or good-shepherd of the world??? The world's countries can solve their own problems, thank you very much, and if you kept your nose out there would be no Saddams and no Osamas. Dare I point out that these people (Sadam + Osama) came to power precisely because of Anglo-American support in the first place.
The best thing that can happen in the Middle-East is for America and England to LEAVE. Take your military forces and leave - it's that simple.
Oh, so being exploited/ takenover is now good for you? We should all pray for the USA to first bomb/decimate, and then rebuild us because that's the only way to betterment? What kind of paternal nonsense is this. And if it is true, why won't you take a little of your own medicine. Who made you, Matt, or your country, the guardian or good-shepherd of the world??? The world's countries can solve their own problems, thank you very much, and if you kept your nose out there would be no Saddams and no Osamas. Dare I point out that these people (Sadam + Osama) came to power precisely because of Anglo-American support in the first place.
The best thing that can happen in the Middle-East is for America and England to LEAVE. Take your military forces and leave - it's that simple.
For more information:
http://Exploitation is good?
You neo-Darwinistic little boy. The kind of nonsense American superculture bull shit string upon is the filth that the people of this world have been abused and further alienated by for thousands of years under many 'superpowers'. Will you stop making value judgments about other peoples' cultures and start learning how to be a worldly citizen?
Matt, I'd swear that you were being ironic on purpose. I find it interesting that you have mentioned, more than once, the value of tolerance and equality among all people. Yet you advocate the corporate system that is exceedingly responsible for drawing lines among populations. You tell people to get over corporate exploitation because it provides jobs, etc. etc. This is the shallow truth. The deeper truth is evident when we see American corporations moving operations overseas, so that they can pay less money to workers who don't know how much power that laborers have over their employer. It is the ultimate dehuminization of a group to exploit their ingnorance in return for what? Profit? Many corporations are willing to reduce humans to machine status, because it's cheaper. I hope your chest swells with pride for your nation, which is currently under an administration that caters to companies who will gladly lay of 20,000 AMERICAN workers so that they can pay someone overseas less money for equal labor, and then not even put that money back into the system, that allowed them to grow so effectively, by using tax havens. I do not want you to construe this as a personal attack. I just want you to reconsider your support of corporations who would, and are, gladly clawing their way to the top of the heap; expressing no sympathy for those whose status they have reduced in exchange for nothing but wealth.
American corporatism is NOT conducive to the process of precipitating equality among people, because their will always be a group that the system does not give a shit about.
American corporatism is NOT conducive to the process of precipitating equality among people, because their will always be a group that the system does not give a shit about.
Hey Yori, u r a smart man who obviously knows about American history, your writing is insightful, and i think u put it better than what news media reaporters do. My faith that im not almost surrounded by ignorant war loving, all consuming idiots is lessening. Thanks for giving me some...hope.
Sir, Thank you kindly for putting in words what I have been too sickend and upset to compose myself. You have covered most of the points very dear to my heart on this issue. Thanks for your service to this nation.
What sickens me the most is that Clinton arming of islamic fundimatalists in Kosovo which has never been co ered in the US press.
What sickens me the most is that Clinton arming of islamic fundimatalists in Kosovo which has never been co ered in the US press.
the above comment is intended for the author of "proud marine" certainly not Krugman!
As a life long history student I've never fathomed how it was that Lindburg supported hitler, why no one did nothing as the isrealites were being expunged from the globe. Now I know.... feeble minds and greedy hearts.
you fools of the peace marches bear in mind.
If you run with wolves, DO NOT TRIP! BEWARE OF WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING!
As a life long history student I've never fathomed how it was that Lindburg supported hitler, why no one did nothing as the isrealites were being expunged from the globe. Now I know.... feeble minds and greedy hearts.
you fools of the peace marches bear in mind.
If you run with wolves, DO NOT TRIP! BEWARE OF WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING!
From an evil man that knew, intimately, what the Nazi regime was doing and how it is litlle different from what others have done to justify their wicked offensives and keep the behavior of the people in line.
By the end of a war all sides have been involved in acts of evil. So it should it not be our judgement that war is not the answer.
By the end of a war all sides have been involved in acts of evil. So it should it not be our judgement that war is not the answer.
Sorry Yori, I have been gone on vacation, but I did want to discuss the issues you raised. Yori, do you have issues with corporations or capitalism? Or American Corporations? Or am I missing your point? You also raised the issue of equality and tolerance. Is there a (political/economical) system out there that meets your standards of treating workers with equality and tolerance? Or are you suggesting that there needs to be more laws to govern corporations? You also raised issues about the current administration in the U.S., please explain to me the difference between the the current one and the last one to make your point more clear. You also mentioned tax havens, to me this is usually brought up to provoke class warfare. I do agree that many corporation executives are paid way to much. Yori, you may find we have many things in common, with a few different beliefs. I'm looking forward to hearing from you.
If the focus of this 'World War IV', as many Bush administration officials call it, is to eliminate the danger of more terrorist attacks in the USA, then why has 'Homeland Security' been a low priority in the first place? Why have the states been mandated to support great increases in security and still not compensated for the costs? Sure, $100 million was distributed to those places observed as prime targets, but the rest of the country suffers under economic malaise hindered by the demands of the federal government. To stop terrorism in its tracks it is obvious that it needs to start at home, not by invading countries whose regimes seem to have connections to Islamic fundamentalist factions. My money should be spent on peaceful means, not to kill innocents in the process of a feckless plan to bring stability to the Middle East. This action only raises more extreme views of the USA. We are a good people and should live by example.
Are you for real? You're making value judgements about me and my so called "American superculture", yet I feel you think your value judgements are superior to mine. Are you imposing your cultural judgements on me? Are you not tolerant of my views? Are you imposing your cultural values to other third world countries where you have never been? I'm sure everything I read is American Propaganda, and everything you read is the absolute truth. Oh please mighty Cory, please help me become a "worldly citizen."
Matt-
I have not made a value judgement about your culture, that would likely be including my own. We do, however, differ in ideology. I do not subscribe to the notion that the USA has made life better for many of the people in the countries you note. No, they have been exploited by the corporate culture I show disdain for. As an American, who has been outside the US (Only ~4%of Americans have, and that did not include George W Bush until he became President…FRIGHTENING), and has studied history of civilization, I shall speak-out against this sort of nonsense. Just because some postcolonial industrialized nations show signs of a strong economy does not mean the people are better off with these institutions. Most are struggling to get by and are bombarded with compulsory advertisements to buy more and desire more- just like we are. Only the wealthy, just as in the USA, have a better standard of living than before corporate exploitation. What is good for us is not necessarily good for them. We can be more concerned with what is beneficial to humanity than what suits the bottom line. Being proactive about liberating people under the rule of despotism is excellent, as long as it includes true choice in the outcome of regime change. The aggressor has to be wary that their intentions are observed with great scrutiny.
Now, your statements alluding to the inevitability of corporate exploitation is only true if the people of the world are not proactive. Your statement about channeling energy toward understanding Darwinism is outright racist arrogance. The Social Darwinist movement suggested that only people and societies that moved aggressively to adapt to changing circumstances would survive and prosper in a world governed by “survival of the fittest”. Can this be morally supported by powerful nations that have the means to eliminate survival state standards in developing countries? NO! Don’t trip your brothers and sisters, give them a hand. I will attack your words… you are a racist pig! How dare you sit there in your privileged position and make cracks about the superiority of the very system that makes you powerful and others utterly oppressed.
I have not made a value judgement about your culture, that would likely be including my own. We do, however, differ in ideology. I do not subscribe to the notion that the USA has made life better for many of the people in the countries you note. No, they have been exploited by the corporate culture I show disdain for. As an American, who has been outside the US (Only ~4%of Americans have, and that did not include George W Bush until he became President…FRIGHTENING), and has studied history of civilization, I shall speak-out against this sort of nonsense. Just because some postcolonial industrialized nations show signs of a strong economy does not mean the people are better off with these institutions. Most are struggling to get by and are bombarded with compulsory advertisements to buy more and desire more- just like we are. Only the wealthy, just as in the USA, have a better standard of living than before corporate exploitation. What is good for us is not necessarily good for them. We can be more concerned with what is beneficial to humanity than what suits the bottom line. Being proactive about liberating people under the rule of despotism is excellent, as long as it includes true choice in the outcome of regime change. The aggressor has to be wary that their intentions are observed with great scrutiny.
Now, your statements alluding to the inevitability of corporate exploitation is only true if the people of the world are not proactive. Your statement about channeling energy toward understanding Darwinism is outright racist arrogance. The Social Darwinist movement suggested that only people and societies that moved aggressively to adapt to changing circumstances would survive and prosper in a world governed by “survival of the fittest”. Can this be morally supported by powerful nations that have the means to eliminate survival state standards in developing countries? NO! Don’t trip your brothers and sisters, give them a hand. I will attack your words… you are a racist pig! How dare you sit there in your privileged position and make cracks about the superiority of the very system that makes you powerful and others utterly oppressed.
Cory-
Lets get off to a better start. For starters, my use of the word Darwinism had nothing to do with social darwinism. I was refering to cultures that evolve. All cultures evolve based on interacting with others. Very few cultures are stagnant. Cultures can change for the better or for the worse. I take the position that the American culture has improved over the last 200+ years. That doesn't mean that it has always been good. It doesn't mean I agree with everything our government does - both current and past administrations & congresses. Now back to issues you raised. I didn't say that explotation of workers was good, I said they got over it. And in their cultures, not ours, they made a living they chose. I'm obviously not talking about slave labor! Cory, let me say this again, I am against any slave/forced labor anywhere. The countries I mentioned in previous writings, it is my value judgement that with exposure to our culture - education, medicine, food nutrition & technology has benifited these cultures. And let me say I think their culture & people have benifited our culture. Thats what America is, a melting pot of cultures and people. From your writings, you make it sound like their is an elite group of people oppressing the masses in America. This is the farthest thing from the truth (in America.) By the way, both my wifes' and my family came from very humble beginings. But through education (yes both of us paid for our own education - parents couldn't afford it) and hard work, we have benifited spiritually, mentally, healthwise and monetarially. I don't feel I am in a "privileged position" as you call it, only a better one then we started out as. I am curious, do you want to bring me or America down to a "subprivileged position"? Or bring the rest of the world up to a "privileged position"? Or do you respect the cultures of others and let them decide? You insinuated that either America or American corporations are oppressing people, please list any American companies (or Government) that is oppressing people. Please be specific with examples. By the way, the anger in your writing & jumping to false conclusions makes me wonder how much tolerance you have to actually having a civilized conversation?
Lets get off to a better start. For starters, my use of the word Darwinism had nothing to do with social darwinism. I was refering to cultures that evolve. All cultures evolve based on interacting with others. Very few cultures are stagnant. Cultures can change for the better or for the worse. I take the position that the American culture has improved over the last 200+ years. That doesn't mean that it has always been good. It doesn't mean I agree with everything our government does - both current and past administrations & congresses. Now back to issues you raised. I didn't say that explotation of workers was good, I said they got over it. And in their cultures, not ours, they made a living they chose. I'm obviously not talking about slave labor! Cory, let me say this again, I am against any slave/forced labor anywhere. The countries I mentioned in previous writings, it is my value judgement that with exposure to our culture - education, medicine, food nutrition & technology has benifited these cultures. And let me say I think their culture & people have benifited our culture. Thats what America is, a melting pot of cultures and people. From your writings, you make it sound like their is an elite group of people oppressing the masses in America. This is the farthest thing from the truth (in America.) By the way, both my wifes' and my family came from very humble beginings. But through education (yes both of us paid for our own education - parents couldn't afford it) and hard work, we have benifited spiritually, mentally, healthwise and monetarially. I don't feel I am in a "privileged position" as you call it, only a better one then we started out as. I am curious, do you want to bring me or America down to a "subprivileged position"? Or bring the rest of the world up to a "privileged position"? Or do you respect the cultures of others and let them decide? You insinuated that either America or American corporations are oppressing people, please list any American companies (or Government) that is oppressing people. Please be specific with examples. By the way, the anger in your writing & jumping to false conclusions makes me wonder how much tolerance you have to actually having a civilized conversation?
Matt-
Sorry about my lack of quick response, but going to work for longer hours with less wages and benefits takes a toll on an individual. Please do read my lengthy explanation that only grazes the surface of the debauchery played-out by the US and its allies., it should shed light on my contempt.
This leads me to why I am angry. I’m not angry at you. I am angry at a world dominated by institutions whose activities innately dehumanize the common people. Why? You might ask, for reasons of dominance in the world. It is nice that you and I can talk about most anything we want in this forum. On-the-other-hand, there are not many places in the Third World where this can occur.
To fully understand this, one must be privy to the overpowering policy of the United States after WWII. Read the National Security Council Memoranda of the time, particularly NSC 68. The goal is not to rid the world of tyranny, but to eliminate the possibility of small states becoming “ultranational” examples for other countries. For the small countries to have thriving economies, social democracy, and fair labor would be a terrible example for the rest of the Third World. That would have likely resulted, not in the influx of Communism, but a large sea of nations that no longer kowtow to US investors. After the USSR fell, in December 1989, it was easy for US officials to conquest all over the globe, Panama being first. Though they can no longer used the Soviet regime as an excuse. The present enemy of state-sanctioned terrorism is by far a more horrific enemy. Much easier for the State Department to get the go ahead for war. The Third World nations are mere puppets in this sick show to orchestrate how money is funneled to the hands of wealthy shareholders and financiers.
All of the US wars and occupations in Indochina fall into the same category. Including the Philippenes, except they play a part in the global intervention system aimed at the Middle East. Vietnam is the classic case for this region, though US supported wars were waged in Laos, Cambodia, and Indonesia. In Indonesia, the West welcomed Suharto’s 1965 coup because it eliminated the only popular-based party. In a few months, over 700,000 people, primarily peasants were slaughtered. The media, from the New York Times to the Christian Science Monitor hailed it as a triumph and still present Suharto as a “moderate”.
By 1948, the US State Department understood that the Viet Mihn was the premiere national movement in Vietnam. The Viet Mihn did not relinquish control to the local oligarchy, but rather favored independent development. They largely ignored the priorities of foreign investor, and they were likely to succeed. So the plausible spread of this “virus” (as the term was used often) had to be stopped. US policy in the Third World is like the strategy we take with a virus. First you kill the virus, then you inoculate possible victims against the spread of the disease. If at all possible, it is important to have the local military do the dirty deeds, but they were out for themselves. So, US forces moved in and it got ugly (Kennedy), then uglier (Johnson), and they just didn’t know when to quit (Nixon/Ford)
Matt, the pattern is the same throughout the world, especially in Latin America. The 1980’s were some of the bloodiest years in Central and South America, as well as the Caribbean. Do you think that Iran-Contra was just an isolated incident? No, the hearings were just the damage control and exoneration of most of the criminals involved. US lawmakers despised the success of the Sandinista reforms in Nicaragua. Jose Figueres, the father of Costa Rican democracy, praised that “for the first time, Nicaragua has a government that cares for its people”. In a fervor, the US pressured the World Bank and the inter-American Development Bank to end all projects and assistance to Nicaragua. By initiating a contra-war and an illegal economic war, the US was able to turn the Nicaraguan economy into shambles and blame it on the newly and fairly elected Sandanistas. No US aid was given when hurricane Joan decimated them once again in 1988.
The list of countries goes on and it’s the same pattern. All over the world, the US and its allies support totalitarian regimes so that they can control the flow of capital. Then, when the despot is no longer controllable, i.e. Sadaam Hussein, we go through the motions to eliminate that body and replace it with an obedient one. All of the world’s powers do it, but the US has the threat of overwhelming brute force.
I do not believe that the situation has changed, it has only become worse; especially with this incestuous administration trying to implement Reaganomics again (it befalls us all, except for the wealthy) and strong-arming the whole world to bend to its military power.
Yes, I am for real Matt. But, if you don’t see the patterns and understand the motives, you’re not living in reality. With more research I could write an encyclopedia about this topic. This is just the surface that I was able to get a glimpse of in college by the direction of a fine professor of Politcal Science. But, if you don’t see the patterns and understand the motives, you’re not living in reality. It is a small group implementing the policy to perpetuate the Pentagon system of economic progress under the influence of the very wealthy elite.
Sorry about my lack of quick response, but going to work for longer hours with less wages and benefits takes a toll on an individual. Please do read my lengthy explanation that only grazes the surface of the debauchery played-out by the US and its allies., it should shed light on my contempt.
This leads me to why I am angry. I’m not angry at you. I am angry at a world dominated by institutions whose activities innately dehumanize the common people. Why? You might ask, for reasons of dominance in the world. It is nice that you and I can talk about most anything we want in this forum. On-the-other-hand, there are not many places in the Third World where this can occur.
To fully understand this, one must be privy to the overpowering policy of the United States after WWII. Read the National Security Council Memoranda of the time, particularly NSC 68. The goal is not to rid the world of tyranny, but to eliminate the possibility of small states becoming “ultranational” examples for other countries. For the small countries to have thriving economies, social democracy, and fair labor would be a terrible example for the rest of the Third World. That would have likely resulted, not in the influx of Communism, but a large sea of nations that no longer kowtow to US investors. After the USSR fell, in December 1989, it was easy for US officials to conquest all over the globe, Panama being first. Though they can no longer used the Soviet regime as an excuse. The present enemy of state-sanctioned terrorism is by far a more horrific enemy. Much easier for the State Department to get the go ahead for war. The Third World nations are mere puppets in this sick show to orchestrate how money is funneled to the hands of wealthy shareholders and financiers.
All of the US wars and occupations in Indochina fall into the same category. Including the Philippenes, except they play a part in the global intervention system aimed at the Middle East. Vietnam is the classic case for this region, though US supported wars were waged in Laos, Cambodia, and Indonesia. In Indonesia, the West welcomed Suharto’s 1965 coup because it eliminated the only popular-based party. In a few months, over 700,000 people, primarily peasants were slaughtered. The media, from the New York Times to the Christian Science Monitor hailed it as a triumph and still present Suharto as a “moderate”.
By 1948, the US State Department understood that the Viet Mihn was the premiere national movement in Vietnam. The Viet Mihn did not relinquish control to the local oligarchy, but rather favored independent development. They largely ignored the priorities of foreign investor, and they were likely to succeed. So the plausible spread of this “virus” (as the term was used often) had to be stopped. US policy in the Third World is like the strategy we take with a virus. First you kill the virus, then you inoculate possible victims against the spread of the disease. If at all possible, it is important to have the local military do the dirty deeds, but they were out for themselves. So, US forces moved in and it got ugly (Kennedy), then uglier (Johnson), and they just didn’t know when to quit (Nixon/Ford)
Matt, the pattern is the same throughout the world, especially in Latin America. The 1980’s were some of the bloodiest years in Central and South America, as well as the Caribbean. Do you think that Iran-Contra was just an isolated incident? No, the hearings were just the damage control and exoneration of most of the criminals involved. US lawmakers despised the success of the Sandinista reforms in Nicaragua. Jose Figueres, the father of Costa Rican democracy, praised that “for the first time, Nicaragua has a government that cares for its people”. In a fervor, the US pressured the World Bank and the inter-American Development Bank to end all projects and assistance to Nicaragua. By initiating a contra-war and an illegal economic war, the US was able to turn the Nicaraguan economy into shambles and blame it on the newly and fairly elected Sandanistas. No US aid was given when hurricane Joan decimated them once again in 1988.
The list of countries goes on and it’s the same pattern. All over the world, the US and its allies support totalitarian regimes so that they can control the flow of capital. Then, when the despot is no longer controllable, i.e. Sadaam Hussein, we go through the motions to eliminate that body and replace it with an obedient one. All of the world’s powers do it, but the US has the threat of overwhelming brute force.
I do not believe that the situation has changed, it has only become worse; especially with this incestuous administration trying to implement Reaganomics again (it befalls us all, except for the wealthy) and strong-arming the whole world to bend to its military power.
Yes, I am for real Matt. But, if you don’t see the patterns and understand the motives, you’re not living in reality. With more research I could write an encyclopedia about this topic. This is just the surface that I was able to get a glimpse of in college by the direction of a fine professor of Politcal Science. But, if you don’t see the patterns and understand the motives, you’re not living in reality. It is a small group implementing the policy to perpetuate the Pentagon system of economic progress under the influence of the very wealthy elite.
Those who use the terms "pigs" and the rest of your deragatory terms for your fellow human beings should take a close look at yourself in the mirror. What do you see? How shortsighted you are. You do yourselves a big disservice, cheapen your stated goals, and just flat out show your true hateful selves. Continue along your downward paths at your own peril. WAKEUP!
it is so fitting to see the liberals quoting Herman Goering...
THE LIBERALS BECOMING THE NEW NAZI'S OF THE 21 CENTURY
THE LIBERALS BECOMING THE NEW NAZI'S OF THE 21 CENTURY
I am also Creek Indian and am quite proud of my president and the talk radio programs that help filter brainwashing of CNN, ABC, NBC, CNBC, CBS, New York Times, etc. that we have endured ever since they miss called the election results and their boy friend Al Gore lost. Grow up America. Unlike the war haters in America, I learned international economics in several countries in East Europe after the Berlin Wall fell in 1990, I toured the UN in Vienna, I toured the Hungarian stock exchange in Budapest when less than a dozen stocks were traded, I was touring the London Stock Exchange when Sadam invaded Kuwait in 1990, I lived among the poor in oil city of Maracaibo Venezuela. I survived Hurricane Katrina with four feet of water in my house and I live on high land within a block of the local McDonalds. Like most of my neighbors, I had no flood insurance. My president served me well after Katrina. Thank God for good leadership.
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