Black Bloc on the 15th! Come Prepared

What maks you think the cops will wait that long?

I am glad that you will be all wearing black and breaking away from the main protest. Keep in mind that you will not simply be exercising your right to protest, but will, in turn, be breaking the very laws of this country. I plead that if you choose to partake in these activities, do so well away from the main protest and away from those who are demonstrating legally and non-violently. Thank you.

once again I'm confused by another "real" protester who equates property destruction with violence. as far as I ever learned violence is something inflicted on people. (are cops people?)
also, since when did breaking laws become so bad. If a law is unjust, it's your duty to break. If a war is unjust it's your duty to break the shit of the people who would promote it for their profit. It's simple economics..... money talks and protesters walk. You've got to hit these pigs in the pocket book. Destroy their property, and don't feel remorse. They have plenty more and besides, they abuse property rights.

end exploitation by any means necessary. whether it's fighting to prevent this particular war or building cornerstones for the future.....keep fighting.

viva anarquia!

It's supposed to rain on Friday or Saturday, but it's hard to predict. Nobody will stay home because of the rain, but people who are wet often might make the decision to go home early, or could be distracted by it. Not that we have to drag the event on forever. Here is a satellite picture: http://makeashorterlink.com/?F36F125C3

Breakaways do not necessarily even "break the laws of this country." They might very well violate that traffic codes of this municipality. But the supreme law of the the land - The Constitution, in case anyone forgot - proclaims the freedom speech and freedom of assembly as fundamental rights that may be exercised by all in the US. Much of the breakaway action that we have seen at prior mass marches is consistent the spirit of the First Amendment. It's just some traffic code that says that the streets are for cars and not for an assembly of people raising their voices.

Merriam Webster defines violence as:

"1 a : exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse (as in effecting illegal entry into a house) b : an instance of violent treatment or procedure
2 : injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : OUTRAGE
3 a : intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force <the violence of the storm> b : vehement feeling or expression : FERVOR; also : an instance of such action or feeling c : a clashing or jarring quality : DISCORDANCE
4 : undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text) "

As you can see, no where does violence mean that a person is directly harmed. Indirect harm through damage to property is violence too.

Now - how would you feel if Starbucks, the INS, the Chronicle, or any other establishment that you dislike came to your house and smashed all your shit just because they dislike you? If you have the right to do it to them, then they have the right to do it to you.

Tim

when it comes down to it, I support diversity of tactics for good people, and not bad people. It is difficult to lay down the jurisprudence for this, but it is ultimately the most moral situation. Most people, obviously, would agree that germans sheltering jewish people or sabotaging weapons made at nazi factories during WWII did the right thing even if it was illegal. Yet, a klan member violating the law to do bad things to black people couldn't be supported. The best way, on average, for society to set down laws would be to prohibit property destruction all the time etc. , but that doesn't mean that people refraining from monkeywrenching are always more moral than those that selectively do.

Are you stupid? The government doesn't want martial law. Do you know what kind of logitisical nightmare that would be? Not to mention the potential for the whole damn system to collapse on top of itself.

What they want are a bunch of docile drooling idiots who are afraid of their own shadow, let alone taking a stand that the system can't absorb.

you're an idiot or a conspiracy nut. they don't want martial law because that would be the beginning of their end. get a grip on reality!

uh...starbucks, the gap, others, etc, do even worse than the equivelent of smashing the windows of our home. these corporations, by existing, are harming people around the world while bringing about its destruction. thier existence=violence against the people. also, to the guy with the 'anger management' story, maybe those people should join a revolutionary anti-war group, seeing as how their problems are created by the pressures of a capitalist, classist, hierarchal system. also, the gov't doesnt *want* martial law, it is well on the road to *establishingh* martial law, thanks to the kind of nitwits who beleive the lie that the gov't is a protection for the people.

******"vehement feeling or expression "******

uh oh, looks like the ANSWER protests are violent too!

****** Now - how would you feel if Starbucks, the INS, the Chronicle, or any other establishment that you dislike came to your house and smashed all your shit just because they dislike you? If you have the right to do it to them, then they have the right to do it to you.*****

thats right, except its backwards. they do much worse to us, thats why they deserve violence when it happens to them. its just a question of who wins, and since "our" violence is occuring against corporations and not people, and since corporations are not people but are dependent on people, people will destroy them. they will not outlive us. we (people) will win and sorry, Tim, no more starbucks frappacino for you. make your own or support a neighborhood cafe

Militancy can be a very effective tool, but like everything in this media-saturated culture, people grow immune to tactics and messages quickly. If we want any post-war riots/destruction/civil disobedience to be effective, we cannot dilute the power of its meaning and seriousness beforehand. I implore everyone reading this thread to hold back on property distruction this Saturday and save the venom for displays of dissatisfaction to actual events.

Ah, fuck it; people's just gunna go fuck shit up because spraypainting's more fun than strategizing anyways.

We're not opposed to strategizing. We're just opposed to the idea that "strategizing" means "agreeing with you." Frankly what you wrote doesn't make much sense and I don't understand why you take such a high-and-mighty "oh no one will listen to my wisdom anyway" attitude.

I don't see what doesn't make sense. If no one had ever broken windows, spraypainted buildings, etc. with these protests, then when it did happen, people would be like, "Oh, shit; this is big, people are really pissed." As it is, though, people causing property destruction at the antiwar protests has become pretty much expected, so the impact of any post-war actions will be severly lessened.

> save the venom for displays of dissatisfaction to actual events

Waiting three days to fight, is a lot to ask of a bunch of guys who can't wait two minutes to cum.

if we start smashing shit now, what will we have left to do to "make a statement" when the war starts? thats the question you are asking? if so, consider that its also the question Bush and co. are asking, and maybe THATS THE FUCKING POINT.

also, maybe you should be asking yourself if this is just about "making a statement". and maybe consider that that is also also a question Bush and co. are asking themselves. And maybe, theres a point to asking that question too, OF EVERYBODY IN THE SO-CALLED PEACE MOVEMENT.

Again to repeat, your logic makes no sense. So no one should ever do anything because it just decreases the value of doing it in the future?

In fact, March 15th can be used to: increase networking amongst people interested in breakaway actions, increase momentum towards the stuff we're doing next week, show people that things are gaining steam rather than losing steam, etc.

Or, it can be used for scummy punk gatherings that most people probably won't want to attend, myself included.

I can understand if YOU don't want to participate. But to go out of your way to discourage people from going is just bullshit, and shows that you have a strange mentality which involves condescendingly forcing your strategy on people.

What was that about pier 29? is that fisherman's wharf?

Anyway, that's very correct. It is not worth it to sacrifice any of your life in jail by committing an illegal act in front of 300 officers, or however many they bring out on Saturday, including undercovers, and getting caught, when you could have had an alternative style of action where you wouldn't suffer this. Don't listen to those people who say that you have to get arrested in order to be honorable - Thoreau would have been with us.

People advocating to wait to employ escalatory tactics would do well to remember the war on Iraq has already begun. It began over a decade ago through not only the destruction of critical civilian infrastructure but also genocidal sanctions.

The war on workers is taking place now, the war on the climate is taking place now, the disappearing of Muslims is taking place now.

There's no time to wait, we have to start choking the system now. SF has key financial industry targets as well as propaganda industry targets (media, advertising) amongst others.

The SF radical breakaways have not only served to offer a radical exciting analysis to folks in town but also to people around the country.

Radicals can't be forever concerned with "message" and tailoring it to the widest audience. We have UFPJ and the Win (Genocide) Without War folks to do that.

The breakaway's constituents are insurrectionists present and future.

Sheep, however profoundly well intentioned, will not stop this war.

Let's fight to win my friends.

No one is questing that.

But are they smart enough to realize that they have the advantage at night and the cops have the advantage in the day time?

Sounds to me like SF will be to the coming Revolution like Boston was to our first one. I'm sure there were plenty of Loyalists in colonial days who viewed the ransacking of tax offices and destruction of tea as just "scummy punk gatherings".

Any future disobedience is not unjust in coming. It's not like people all around the globe haven't tried desperately to persuade and petition our government.

The First Court of Appeals has one final chance (their decision on the case led by John C. Bonifaz http://austin.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=5903&group=webcast should be known within hours) to maintain this country's integrity.

If they should fail, good luck guys and gals. I support you 100%.

NO ONE in support of destruction has answered this question that I've asked many times.

If it is right and proper to smash some group's window because you disagree with them, what is to prevent them from coming to ANSWER HQ and smashing all the windows there?

The only response I've ever gotten dodges the question and says "Starbucks/whatever is eeeeevvvvvil! They do X evil things." I don't actually disagree with this, but it is only tangential to my question.

Tim.

" If it is right and proper to smash some group's window because you disagree"

What the hell does right and proper mean? What is this, england?

Cool..everyone gets to break windows. Boy, that'll stop the war. All the media picks it up. Middle American goes "see!" How much are the Bush forces of evil paying you?

Hey Tim,

here's my feeling on the matter of destruction... for a while i felt the same way as you, that there is no objective truth and therefore you cannot act in such a way as to destroy property. here's what i've concluded on that matter: firstly, when you smash big corporations (which you yourself admitt fuck up this earth in many ways) you are not damaging specifically any individual. you are damaging a corporation. it is not a specific attack at someone, but rather at a fucked up institution. it creates a small dent financially, but it also shows a level of sincerity in your cause. with this impending war, the administration will not listen to any form of reason. many of us have tried calling the president and our representitives and it really doesn't work. what works, however, is when we put enough pressure on the government to stop this war. when its more costly to wage it than not to. when we continually stop business as usual. the issue issue of morality, to an extent, goes out the window, because the war is immoral and will not stop by our letter writing campaigns. we need to stop this war with any tactic possible (i would say without any violence to individuals, but that's a different argument). i mean, some people diagree and say that while they admit the war is wrong, we cannot lose our high moral standing, but think about it for a minute. it is not longer a question of morality in that sense. we are about to be killing thousands of people. we are about to be completely fucking up a country. the question is, how do we stop that?

peace

nick

So Joe Bob the Starbucks manager shows up on the TV news, with his smashed business behind him. "I just don't know why they targeted me, " he says. "I oppose the war, too, but why did they smash my windows? I had to hide in the back office just to avoid the flying glass."

News reporter voice-over : "As store owners and managers clean up the shattered glass and broken furniture, many wonder whether, in the midst of an economic recession in the Bay Area, they will be able to pay for the damage, and, ultimately, whether their small businesses will survive."

Do you think the news would cover it in any other way? They sure won't be talking about the brave protesters who risked arrest and smashed windows in the name of peace. News affects public opinion. Public opinion affects government action.

However you feel about global corporations, however you feel that people associated with them "deserve" to be targeted, however much responsibility you choose to pin on folks for the actions of the corporations who employ them ... it's going to be the individuals who appear on the news. They will be voicing that they felt "terrorized" and victimized by protesters.

Is there any better way to alienate Joe Bob from the peace movement than by having protestors smash his property every time a peace march winds through his neighborhood? Do you think his neighbors will say "Gee, those guys hate corporations. I work for a corporation. Perhaps I am evil. If my business does get attacked, well, I guess I deserve it for not voting Green last election. My apologies. Here, have a scone while you're spray painting my sign."

The few vandals who are resorting to violence like George W. are helping the hate and violence grow and ultimately the pro war movement! Wake Up! Learn from history!

walkingtrout

Sometimes, violence is the only thing that works.

See:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/israeli/yad-vashem/yvs-camps-02-01.html

Non-violent protest is best form of protest. Destroying Gaps and Starbucks is not an answer to anything.

If you feel the need to protest corporate America you should bring attention to the corporations who are directly benefitting and sponsoring this war. Bechtel, Halliburton, Chevron, Exxon, and Lockheed Martin. These guys have already receive the contracts in Afganistan and the new Iraqi clean-up. Over a billion dollars in contracts already. They all have advisors in the government.

Leave the khakis and lattes out of it and protest those who responsible. Bechtel is located at 50 Beale Street in San Francisco. They have a list of Human Rights Abuses a mile long.

Make your voice heard, but do it non-violently

If there is violence or hatred in your heart as you are engaging in property destruction, the property destruction is rooted in that violence, it is violent.

True, the immediate impact is trivial when compared to the destruction of bombs and sanctions and the IMF. However, the long term impact on yourself, your ability to live in peace with others, and your wider community will be gravely harmed if you continue to act under rage and hatred.

If you are acting out of anger, feel that, see that, and stop, and then bring yourself to peace before you continue to speak or act.

If you allow unchecked rage to guide your actions, what kind of future can we hope for?

Peace out

don't i look just like the dad from Everybody Loves Raymond.

Love and Class War

Bloc 'n' Roll baby!!!!!!

Direct action is the only way in the case of this war (that had been going on for some 12 years) to stop it. Bush is certain that the public opinion does nothing to change his views. That means that direct action is the only possible way of truely making change. Sure high numbers of people at protests are good, but what do they acctually do? Some good ole monkeywrenching is what is needed. Now for all of you out there who read this please don't go trashing random building and windows. Do it with thought and god forbid style. Take out the corporations that help the war effort. That is a form of protest against the war. Don't go after evel corporations untill all other viable targets have been dealt with. That is what you really need. Make a point about what you choose to leave alone and what you choose the destroy. The image of what we have done will be the lasting statement that we choose to make. Best of wishes to you all out there and don't get caught.

Sometimes destruction is creative....

And not all violence is motivated by hate.

Some of the people carrying out directed acts of property damage do so out of a love of freedom, equality, and community....

Values which their targets seek to destroy in the blind pursuit of profit.

If enough people rise up and engage in such acts, the costs will mount to a point where such insitutuions will be driven away from our communities.... Out of the ashes will rise a vacuum waiting to be filled by new, more ethical replacements - a process of creative destruction, just as that of capitalist markets - except that anarchists will change the system within which the marketplace and commerce must operate.

Smashing windows of financial institutions and Starbucks is to anti-authoritarian anti-capitalism as tree-spiking is to environmentalism. Both are violent. Both create small costs. Both forms of costs can add up if the numbers of participants are large enough. Neither is aimed at human beings, just the machinery of destructive insitutions.

One single window won't do much damage. A thousand will. Yes, you can only smash so many en masse, publicly in front of the police without getting caught. I imagine that's not a huge number.... But the act of doing so and escaping unharmed itself is a symbolic act of defiance, designed to show people that such things can be done even in broad daylight, in front of lines of police. Hopefully seeing such defiance will inspire them to carry out similar acts of sabotage on a more individual level later on, perhaps in more creative ways, and under conditions where they are far LESS likely to be caught, and the police probably won't be around at all....

And by the way, smashing the window of Starbucks isn't merely a blind knee-jerk act of repulsion (though some may be motivated by such).... It is actually an act of environmentalism as well as a stand for worker's rights, and will remain so until Starbucks serves all organic, shade-grown, fair trade coffee.... Something like coffee might seem trivial to you or me, but it makes up a large part of the economies of many South American and Third World countries. Conventional coffee production is responsible for much of the ecosystem destruction, pesticide pollution, and semi-slave conditions that exist in these parts of the world.

Not all acts of violence are always immoral -- especially such mild ones that don't injure human beings themselves. I believe that we have the right to use violence as a means towards what is necessary for our own survival. This includes a proportional response in self-defence to attacks on our physical being and capacity for autonomy. I consider the black bloc as a tactic a collective form of self-defense, that is quite generously proportional in magnitude.

What is far from proportional is when the U.S. goes on bombing raids killing tens of thousands of civilians in retaliation against people who are only distantly connected to the death of a mere 5,000, as it did in Afghanistan and is about to do in Iraq.

There is no moral contradiction to be for the one but against the other for those who have a more than the completely simplistic moral view that violence is either always right or always wrong.

AMERICA BECOMES THE ZIONISTS’ MAIN WHORE



We have reviewed how the Zionists used and discarded Germany. Then they used and discarded Great Britain. After World War II, it was clear that the chief remaining global power was the United States. Now the USA had never had any problem with the Arab people, and had no reason to quarrel with the Arabs. For the Zionists to maintain and expand the support they were receiving from America, it would benefit them greatly if the Arabs and the mighty US could somehow become enemies. Could the Zionists possibly stoop so low? Why not? Look at what they had already pulled off! Remember that the official motto of the Mossad (Israel's intelligence organization) is "by way of deception thou shalt do war." (1)

In 1955, one of these "false flag" operations was publicly exposed for the world to see. Israeli agents, impersonating Arab terrorists, were caught staging a series of bombings against American installations in Egypt. (2) When this conspiracy was exposed, it ultimately created such a controversy that it brought down the Israeli government. The long since forgotten scandal became known as "the Lavon Affair".

Then again during a 1967 war with the Arabs, Israeli gunboats and fighter jets deliberately attacked the USS Liberty, an unarmed US communications ship. (3) Thirty five American sailors were murdered and 170 others injured in a prolonged Israeli onslaught - carried out in broad daylight and with the U.S. flag flying prominently. The intent was to kill all the Americans and then leave the Egyptians to take the blame. The Israelis finally broke off the attack when they thought that US fighters were on the way to help. Israel denied that the attack was deliberate but the chilling stories of the lucky American survivors clearly contradict that lie. To this very day, the U.S. Congress has never investigated the USS Liberty massacre.

In the 1980's, the Israelis once again succeeded in framing enemy Arabs in order to enrage America. Former Mossad case officer Victor Ostrosvky became so disgusted with the criminal behavior of his own government that he defected from the Mossad. Ostrovsky tried to warn America of just how evil and murderous the Mossad actually was. Ostrovsky revealed exactly how the Israelis framed Libya for the bombing of a German night club which killed American servicemen. (4) It was this frame up job that caused President Reagan to bomb Libya in 1986, killing the 4 year old daughter of Libyan leader Muamar Qadhafi.

France refused to allow US bombers to fly over their air space and bomb Libya. A wave of anti-French sentiment swept across America. I can still recall demonstrations of angry American "patriots" dumping bottles of French wine, and radio hosts urging listeners to boycott French goods. Ignoramuses throughout America (including this writer I'm ashamed to say!) shrieked: "We bailed those Frenchies out of two World Wars and this is how they thank us!" But the reason that France refused to cooperate with the deadly US bombing raid was because French intelligence knew that Libya had been framed by the Israelis.

Ostrovsky, whose 1990 tell-all book, By Way of Deception, infuriated the Mossad and made him the target of numerous death threats. (5) Among some of Ostrovosky's other amazing revelations are:

The Mossad recruits Arab agents to carry out missions.
Israeli agents are skilled at impersonating Arabs.
Mossad had an elaborate plan to vilify Iraq and involve the US in a war against it.
MOSSAD knew in advance of the 1983 Arab surprise attack on US Marines based in Lebanon. Instead of warning their American "allies", Mossad deliberately allowed more than 200 US Marines to be killed in the surprise bombing attack.
Wealthy Zionists in America are often called upon to help carry out Mossad missions.
In 2001, the Washington Times ran a story about a 68 page research paper issued by the Army School of Advanced Military Studies (SAMS). The research was compiled by 60 US Army officers as an attempt to predict the possible outcomes of deploying a US force to maintain peace between the Israel and Palestinians. Here’s what SAMS had to say about the Israeli military machine:

“a 500 pound gorilla in Israel. Well armed and trained. Operates in both Gaza and the West Bank. Known to disregard international law to accomplish mission” (6)

Of Israel’s Mossad, the officers issued this warning:

“Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target US forces and make it look like a Palestinian Arab act.” (7) (emphasis added)

Why does the US, which is trillions of dollars in debt, give away billons of taxpayer dollars to a foreign government whose military violates international laws and whose Mossad is capable of murdering US troops in order to frame Arabs? Have we lost our minds?



LEFT: THE BADLY DAMAGED USS LIBERTY. A DELIBERATE ACT OF MURDER.
CENTER: ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY MEMORIAL TO THE DEAD
RIGHT:MOSSAD LOGO. HEBREW INSCRIPTION READS: “BY WAY OF DECEPTION THOU SHALT DO WAR”.

Guys, wear a cup!

Protect your nads!

Shooting at someone just doing property damage (vandalism) is an extreme over-repsonse and highly illegal. I doubt anyone will need to "order" the police to arrest them.

It would be perfectly legal to use deadly force to shoot back though.... Even without a concealed carry permit, you would get off without any charges.

Let the right-wingers be warned -- anarchists don't believe in gun control either and they will defend themselves. Some of them I know even hold concealed carry permits.

Of course, this is probably just a scare tactic....

The Compassionate Conservative


By sizzling with passion at KSFO Michael Savage Soared to #1 Arbitron ratings among adults 12+ during afternoon drivetime in San Francisco and to be the top talk host in his timeslot in Northern California. Now America is turning to "The Michael Savage Show," on Talk Radio Network.


"I guess people love my show because of my hard edge combined with humor and education," he says. "Those who listen to me say they hear a bit of Plato, Henry Miller, Jack Kerouac, Moses, Jesus, and Frankenstein. I pull many of my life experiences, including that of father, son, husband, brother, ice cream factory worker, busboy, lifeguard, writer, scientist, and my huge library of books." Listeners also hear top-flight guests and, in keeping with the fact that talk hosts attract the audience they deserve, listeners hear literate callers with intelligence, wit, and energy.


An independent-minded individualist, Michael Savage fits no stereotype. He attacks big government and liberal media bias, but champions the environment and animal rights. Trained as a scientist, he holds Master's degrees in medical botany and medical anthropology and earned his Ph.D. from the University of California at Berkeley in Epidemiology and Nutrition Science. Along with his book The Savage Nation and CD Best of The Savage Nation, he is author of the book "Herbs That Heal" and 17 other books.


Savage created the phrase "Compassionate Conservative" in 1994. Savage has used this concept in his radio program, as the title of his book, and in conducting the first of four hugely successful Compassionate Conservative Conventions bearing that name in 1995. Savage has consistently drawn sold-out audiences to hear him live. For Savage, these words describe a "firewall of balance" that limits how far to the right his opinions go.


The word Compassion means "with feeling," and that's the magnetic attraction Michael Savage has proven he has by pulling top numbers in one of America's biggest trend-setting markets. Give your audience a chance to hear why for the past two years Talkers Magazine named Savage as one of America's top talk radio hosts. He knows how to explore issues, entertain, stimulate, and promote in ways that boost the ratings and profits of every station lucky enough to carry him.

You do know that this self agrandizing pompous ass of a rascists real name is Weiner, right?

I guess Weiner Nation didn't sound as manly.


Peace, not idiots
d

JoeBob, the jackass Starbucks manager wouldn't have to replace the window. The CORPORATION would. I agree that the news is going to twist the message, but if a protest is TOO civil they won't cover it at all. It's just all Lacy Peterson, all the time... with a little Robert Blake thrown in for good measure. I personally don't feel the need to go out and break shit, but if that's what it's going to take to wake people up, so be it. Maybe your pal JoeBob could get some information about what the company he works for is really about. Maybe he'll figure out how much $ they make off of a cup of coffee that costs them pennies. Maybe he'll realize they're screwing him over at $8 an hour (not to mention what they do to the people who actually grow the coffee). Some of those anarchists have good aim. If JoeBob was a target, they'd have hit him (lucky thing they're not as down with collateral damage as W is)

ok so i have wondered before.....why the hell do we march around getting hassled by the cops and tired out during the daytime......when we definately have an advantage at night?....as much as running from them frustrates the pigs, a few hundred people dressed in black would REALLY fuck them up after dark wouldnt it?

What's the point to that? The cops are not the enemy. They are just in the way, that's all. Don't fight the cops. Go around the cops. Bounce off the cops. Outrun the cops. Don't fight them. Fighting the cops is a waste of time and energy. So why not fight the REAL enemy, instead?

the "fuck them up" statement wasnt a call to try to beat on cops..i meant it in the sense it would mentally fuck them up....be a lot harder to corral and break us up like they did today...

It would even be harder just to see you, especially if it happened to be really, really dark, for some reason or other.

But when it's that dark, you might stub your toe or something. Better to just stay home and hide under the bed.