Police Go Crazy: Try to Box In And Arrest Over 1000 protesters

Obviously you would rather that the police used nerve gas and amputated legs and arms of people who protest. That way it could be more like your favorite nation, Iraq.

http://www.ci.sf.ca.us/police/command.htm

200,000 people made a peaceful demonstration account for something. Less than 1,000 hooligans showed why the cops would even need to be around for demonstrations. Punks, and thats what they are, deserve everything the cops gave them. The whinning on TV by "bystanders" and participants alike makes me want to puke. PEACE BEGETS PEACE!
VIOLENCE BEGETS VIOLENCE. Just because "you" think you're entitled to do what it is you do does not make it "good for the community". I hope more people sound-off about this out and out plain crimminal behaviour.

Was it really violent? I can't seem to recall anyone that was hurt in the breakaway march other than the arrestees by the police.

And I can't think of any independent businesses that had their windows broken.

Richard Bruce
Deputy Chief: Special Operations & Security
Bldg. 606, Hunters Point, SF 94124
415-671-3150

>PEACE BEGETS PEACE!

Tell to the Jews who walked into Auschwitz with their hands up.

>VIOLENCE BEGETS VIOLENCE.

Tell it to the Jews who killed their guards, burned Treblinka to the ground and escaped.

Protesting that which is unstoppeable is dangerous and a waste of time. What we need to do is FAST and PRAY and GOD will take care of us.

No matter what the protestors say or do the police always use violence on them; then others use violence on innocent businesses.

One way...the way of GOD!

"Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God"
- Ben Franklin


Don't "stay home and fast and pray", that's exactly what the tyrants in Washington want you to do.

"Religion - is the only thing that keeps the Poor from killing the Rich"
- Napolean Bonaparte

"Resist Much, Obey Little"
- Ed Abbey

I don't have a moral or ethical issue with the breakaway march or with anyone who breaks a window at Abercrombie & Fitch or Old Navy or whatever store that was.

I just do not think you all are helping Iraq. What the world DID notice after this weekend was the sheer numbers of peaceful protesters all around the world. In this day and age, we can be sure the police are going to take advantage of every opportunity to arrest protesters and maybe even bust some heads. You can also be sure the media will gloat over the intransigence of some protesters and spin it to look like it was a the main event.

See:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/02/1572917_comment.php#1574134

yep, its playing the media for exactly what they are -- blood n gore hucksters. but it helps us... for all the years of the nonviolent nuclear protesting in the 80s, one quebec city riot has more capital than all those years combined. ultimately, do you want to put on the best show for the tv news or do you want to create political disruption that forces them to listen to us?

Direct action/Demonstrations
The tactics of control are evolving.
So must ours. We already know their orders and
predicting their reactionary response should be easy.
As for the poodles.
Marches are a challenge for 'liberal media.'
How can you hold their peckers to fire? They are forced to
tightrope walk between information command and creditability and it is important to keep up the minor pressure of hate mail etc. (no death threats please). They need to feel
they have you for a fish.
I suggest an increase in outrageous rage.
Screw the naked peace sign; how about a Really Large
naked
9-11
WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ?
The lynch pin of this entire murderous mess?
Parades for the media. I saw the local news cut off just as a poster of
9/11 came into view. Interviewing the most placid and pointless
speakers. Showing the most limiting shots.
Then to listen to our man McCain call protesters ' having their
own (useless) opinions' and then chastise them for doing it in front of
Saddam. Sorry 6 o clock news, I must puke.
We should do it in the basement. With the windows painted shut.
Someone making noise outside and watching.
With a back way out .

I have some problems with the Black Bloc. In fact, I have a lot of problems with the Black Bloc. But I have even more problems with those who think that the goal today is to "persuade" the ruling class that war isn't a good idea. These scum don't care what we think. The only thing they care about is keeping their capitalist shit-democracy afloat.

At bottom, most anti-war liberals are basically religious. Many are materially comfortable and seek solace in a mystical belief in "energy" and good thoughts. If they can embody their beliefs--recycling, a redmeatless diet, non-violence, and the occasional demonstration--they're content with themselves. The actual impact of their actions is secondary to feeling absolved of guilt.

I had never seen anything like this police action before, not first hand. I had seen a police line, but never the horse, motor bike, and helicopter thing. My first shock was when I was grabbed with great force from behind on the shoulder as I was shooting photos of the horses and violently moved by a police officer with no prior notice to me. I must say that most certainly set my initial view of the SF police.

It was just basic lack of decency. I heard someone in the crowd say the police was adrenalizing the protesters as a mass of people rushed down the sidewalk in fear obviously being pushed by something behind them which I couldn't see. Someone said tear gas. I didn't see any, but didn't want to either. My heart was pounding.

From my perspective the police acted more like an occupying force Sunday than as peace officers. They didn't act like it could be one of their neighbor's sons or daughters in the crowd, but rather that the crowd was their enemy. I got a very tiny taste of Palestine which I will never forget. So the day for me was a fruitful one. It will make me fight even harder for peace and justice.

I was there. I talked with my 65 year old aunt who was at the march in Colorado Springs, and there (as discussed in another newswire story) the police gave a quiet unaudible dispersal order when parts of the 3-6000 person crowd stepped into the street, and then threw 5-6 teargas units within half a minute. She said it was totally irresponsible and that any fair person, left or right, would have seen that this wasn't reasonable or acceptable. She was luckily in a field near the parking lot at the time, but still had to breathe it in. It was totally intimidating for anyone who was thinking of coming out with kids. Anyway, the San Francisco police couldn't release tear gas in Union Square or in a crowded neighborhood. You can always kind of interpret what the commander or Sergeant is telling them via their earphones, and a lot of the time, they seem to be a couple minutes behind what is really going on at the scene. This was definitely the case on January 18th. But for instance, wasn't it clear that when the commander on the west side of the 8th& market block told everyone to exit to the East, and then the police were batoning some people trying to leave at the Eastern police line, that the east line hadn't gotten the word yet, and this is what led to the insurrectionary behavior? A few police just a block away at the time who weren't part of the riot squad were acting like normal people, friendly, with smiles on their faces. I think the behavior is a result of the way the police are organized with a couple commanders trying to lead hundreds of subordinates, and they don't know what's going on themselves. I saw testimony at the police review commission for the Berkeley Ecuador/critical mass riot which was set off by someone lighting a firework, that an officer filmed hitting and pushing someone who was screaming that they were crushing his backpack and bicycle cart in a garbage truck trash compactor, had not comprehended a word that was said by this protester about his property - he was just following orders, and his orders were to push people back.

Your a fucking tard.

As a person who was arrested at 8th and Market on Sunday I would like to correct something. Perhaps people no enclosed by the police were singing "We Shall Overcome" and similar songs, but I did not hear much singing. I heard people shouting "Whose Streets? Our Streets"

"Punks, and thats what they are"
I hope you know that's not an insult to a lot of us...Oi!

Incidentally, the thousands (and millions worldwide) who marched with the cops' permission, on the roads the cops told them to, at the times the cops told them to (which isn't much of a protest, if you ask me) were "shrugged-off" by Bush. Do you think he'd shrug it off if people became more willing to stand up to him nad his cronnies in blue?

We decided to have a march on our terms, without asking for permission. The cops decided to hit us with clubs. Then, and only then, did the crowd turn violent.

So bloody judgemental, aren't we?

I am proud to be an American. I believe in the right to protest and demonstrate within the confines of the law. Yet, I don’t believe in the behavior that I witnessed during this last demonstration. I witnessed, civil disobedience, which included stealing, vandalism and battery. This is not the way to get the cause noticed or heard,

When I saw the demonstrators attacking police officers I was appalled. If we are trying to keep people in another country form getting hurt, why would we want to hurt our citizens here in this country.

The photo that shows the police car in the middle of the crowd should have fought back and taken out a few idiots during what turned into a riot. But unfortunately they all walked away. I think the used great restraint.

Nobody entered stores or attacked a single bystander. Only about 5 things were thrown at officers.

It's truly a shame that people stood by as the police charged us hitting us and pushing women and children to the ground, while we protested under our rights as Americans! The police don’t have the right to strike people for just standing around watching the events going on-THEY BLOCKED US IN AND BEGAN THE VIOLENCE-we know what happens when 200,000+ march for peace and go home after a few hours (NOTHING) I applaud the breakaway group that stood there ground against RIOT POLICE that had nothing in mind but to crack heads. The media said that this group was from the black bloc but I laugh at that because the majority of persons I saw where normal people with no apparent affiliation to any groups. The media also quoted a police official saying, "Not one officer went untouched" NON-SENSE!!!!! Most of the police were never even touched until they decided to strike (PERIOD). History lays a clear path to what will come if we stand aside while these CLOWNS run around using the blood of human beings like monopoly money, without regard for the environment and A CLEAR disrespect for the VOICE OF THE PEOPLE THEY SERVE! Disaster and chaos-WAR will only make things worse and create more hate for our country and the freedoms we love so much. WE NEED TO STAND NOW, AND NOT RUN AWAY FROM OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS AMERICANS - DISSENT IS PATRIOTIC

I wasn't at the frontlines so I cannot confirm any police losing it.

I've never been to a protest before so seeing so many police with riot gear on was a bit intimidating. The descriptions in this article are quite accurate.

By the time I got there, they were already flanked by the men in blue but found a good solid standing spot to watch. The cops set a roadblock on the block down past Burger King, and on the sidewalks, flanking the protestors.

I was 4 feet away from the "box" -- luckily on the outside. Many of the onlookers were just normal people, much like how the rest of the night went. Most were NOT 'black bloc' protesters, if you want to single the black bloc'ers by their style of dress.

Some people were let out, but definately the rule was not to let people in the "box". I guess so as to not let the "unruly mob" grow out of hand.

I was on the backside of "the box", so I couldn't see what was going on at the frontlines - but I could sense it was much more confrontational. Roughly 5 minutes later a flagbearer rushed over back to the end where I was, and it seemed about half the protesters faced back towards the mounted police force.

The confrontations I saw were verbal and I did see a few things tossed at the mounted police. Some seemed directed at the horse -- I didn't get a good look at it.

If the police were losing it, I didn't see it -- and maybe it was because their crowd control techniques have been proven and tested. ...

That they can get away with letting it all out, as long as no one sees?

Unfortunately I find that hard to believe because it seemed like at least 25% of people there had a camera or camcorder.
.............................................
I stayed to watch into the night when the breakaway blocked off the intersection in front of the Burger King. Interestingly enough, a well-prepared protestor setup a DO NOT ENTER police tape boundary to enclose the street intersection.

The riot cops stood by for about 10 minutes then moved out to surround everyone. By this point, a certain number started to leave and the number of protestors in the street were about equal to the number of riot cops (200/200). At each stage the number of protesters dwindled until arrests were made.

At some point they had cops on motorbikes and motorcycles escort traffic through the intersection, but before that they seemed to parade around down the street. I interpreted this as more of a psychological warfare technique.

In my humble opinion, the night was at it's lowest when onlookers on the sidewalks chanted "Who's street?....OUR street", then again, I suppose it was to express solidarity with the ones boxed in.

No wait, the night was at it's lowest when I heard someone yell at a cop that they were wasting tax payer's money - did he not see the graffiti I saw on the MUNI bus?

I'm not saying this whole thing was pointless, but the things I heard from onlookers was quite moronic. At the same time, I have respect for those who stayed until the end to protest, for whatever intention they had. I think it's sad that some people will disregard them as people trying to get attention or who have no aim.

Check out this site...interesting! http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html

by all means, continue getting off on violence and the grave injustices done to you. wax poetic about the police and the brutality. many other people have marched throughout the years and been confronted with the same situations, they knew what they were doing and the risks they were taking, so did you. i'm not supporting the actions of the police, but what did you really expect? of course they reacted violently, it's always the same. i'll probably get lambasted for this, but i'm just sick of all the self-righteous indignation, people going out looking to be oppressed, and then bragging about it. we need everyone together on this one, it saddens me that the movement against the war seems to be getting divided by all this.

"Nobody entered stores or attacked a single bystander. Only about 5 things were thrown at officers."


actually some people did enter stores... before the police could block off the san francisco department store some odd people rushed in. there were only about a dozen of us and i dont think that much damage was done besides stuff getting knocked over, some stuff broken, and maybe some stuff spraypainted. all i could really do was run straight through cause it was hella scary. but yea, i wonder why this wasnt really mentioned? or was it?

"The photo that shows the police car in the middle of the crowd should have fought back and taken out a few idiots during what turned into a riot. But unfortunately they all walked away. I think the used great restraint."

Hey "American", I guess you're a cop, or a right wing troll, because no one who claims to want peace would be advocating "taking out" people with the car.

In fact, the cars were driven through the crowd in violation of the General Orders.

You want battery? How about how the first car struck a demonstrator, watch it in slow motion at this video:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/02/1575268.php

The second car wasn't allowed through so easily, and by your logic, the demonstrators should have "taken him out", but we were peaceful, you people are the violent ones.

You want a real theft? How about the theft of our Constitutional right to demonstrate? That's a lot more serious than the thefts your imagination has produced.

I could go on.

it would be nice to know exactly why that head cop made this weird decision. and why is the police so much like military, this 'chain of command' stuff? if the normal police knew the order was crap, and had been allowed to disobey it, would any of this shit have happened? and since policing is so secretive at the high levels, like most bureaucratic things, how will we ever know what the head police decision maker was thinking? man this sucks.

Hey American...

I agree, you are a cop or completly ignorant. I was at the break away march as an objective photographer and witnessed mounted police beating unarmed demonstrators for trying to walk up a street. You are full of crap, please do not waste your time posting your feeble attempts to sway dissential view. Let your mind evolve a bit and transcend to a higher thought level before you attempt to engage in any intellectual discussion. Cheers! :-)

Don't you understand that the people of Iraq need to be liberated? War would be good in the long run if it removes Saddam Hussein. Only then will the people of Iraq be free to tell the world of the atrocities that have occurred during his ruling. If Clinton were in charge, you anarchist types would be fully supportive. Funny how silent you were when Clinton was the one doing the bombing without permission of the U.N.

anyone know if we can demand to view the cops videos and pics, through the sunshine ordinance, maybe? I would like to see what they're filming, and since they can get closer, I'll bet they show better views of the brutality...

actually anarchists were against what clinton did.
people in iraq have an oppressive government, of course, all government is oppressive. its not like iraq is the only oppressive government in the world.
and the people of iraq do not need us to liberate them. they might want help from us, but the only people who can truly liberate the people of iraq are the people of iraq. you can not liberate someone, they have to do it themselves, only thing you can do is help them. and bombing them is not going to help bring someone freedom.

I'm sorry for being a nonthinking buffoon. I'm just repeating what I heard Rush say on the radio the other day. By the way, YOU'RE ALL COMMUNISTS!

history is chocked full of people who were liberated by others

Those who are considering Direct Action in the event of actual war should be aware of higher risk this time around. In the past, attempts to disrupt transportation centers and bottlenecks and to disrupt "business as usual" in high visibility locations, has been recognized as protest and not dealt with through the use of deadly force. This time, if US attacks Iraq, the Homeland Security Secretary will declare "Red Alert," and the military/national guard will be mobilized to pre-empt terrorist acts. If previous methods of Direct Action are utilized, they will be identical to the kinds of acts the military will be trained to recognize as terrorism: "Attacks" on bridges and transportation, disruptions in locations of high crowd density, such as Union Square. The soldier will be unable to distinguish between the Direct Actor and the Suicide Bomber. The soldier's will be full of fear, trained to identify nuances of a person's action as a predicate to a terrorist act. Direct Actors, protestors, and even onlookers may find themselves in a serious, perhaps deadly, situation because some soldier "thought he saw a bomb" or "thought he saw the person spray something." The brains of law enforcement and military on that day will be crawling with fear and loathing like a toad on hot pavement. Direct Action may be the last thing the participants ever do.

Which ones? Be specific. Name names.

The orange stocked shotgun is not a RIOT GUN. It is a less than lethal option for law enforement. It use's one inch lead bean bags and can only be used in certain circumstances. Officers dont just whip out and start shooting when they feel like it. Like the RIOTERS I saw doing whatever they felt like.

"one inch lead bean bags " are riot control guns. What was weird was that they got those guns out at the last minute while rounding up the peacful people at the end. During the time when the police horses were going crazy and peopel did start to throw things the police's reponse was to trun around and run. I guess what else can they do after boxing in 1000+ people.

The protests at the previous protest resulted in many more windows broken etc.. but Im guessing the thing at Market and 8th is the reason for the coverage in the papers today. The incident at Market and 8th was not Black Bloc, it was a mixture of people from the breakaway and people leaving the main protest. The crowd was boxed in and people had to run through the police lines to get out. Wh ythe police chose to create a situation like this is unclear. The results were obvious (box people in and they will try to get away) so my only guess is that eitehre the police don't know what they are doing (which isnt a bad guess) or they wanted to create some incident to justify more harsh actions earlier on at the next protest.

Standing right outside the starbucks on top of newspaper dispenser when the horses went berserk-- tho it was started by someone throwing firecrackers at the horses, not by cops... Cops create a barrier to act against, acting violently against it neatly justifies their own violence to a crowd-- It could become a benign barrier, or a self-doubting barrier...!

Is it possible that you all are being used by the government; perhaps infiltrated? Even though in the San Francisco papers, the march was regarded as peaceful, it does play into the hands of this administration to have the protests regarded as violent. It diminishes the huge effort

With regard to these kids in Black Blok as being "spoiled...pampered", the exact opposite is true. I have had these kids in my classes for years, and they are the abused, neglected products of rotten parents, and an uncaring society. They are angry.

Whatever the reason. Black Bloc's violent antics diminish the message of the majority. They do it at the end of the day so the last thing the public remembers is their moronic behavior. A great display of public protest negated by a few social misfits. Misfits who only find satisfaction in their mindless and meager attempts to create terror.

Cops are not the target. Cops are an impediment on the the way to the target. Save time and energy. Go around them.

I was not silent when Clinton was bombing. Democrats and Republicans are like heads and tails on a quarter. Nevermind, they're like to tails on a quarter, but anyhow...

As for liberating people in Iraq... come on! First of all, do you really think that's what's going on? Second of all, there are alot of people in this world who sure would like to liberate the US. I really don't feel like being bombed, though.

The only people who can free a group is that group itself.

why do the anarchist black bloc kids do their march on the same day as the main march?
why not do it on a diffrent day, so you dont have to make the main march look bad?

why have BB the same day as the stalinist/liberal march?

because some people don't want to march with stalinists. some people dont want to march with liberals. but people DO want to show solidarity with protests happening around the world.

also, many, many of the participants of the breakawy came from the main march.

and, importantly, most of the final 20 demonstrators arrested were not BBers but were people from the main march who were walking down market street, saw what was happening, and sat down in the street to get arrested.

if you want to condemn BBers, fine. but if you go to a protest organized by people who support kim il sung, milsovic, and the massacre at tianamen square, then you have ZERO right to talk shit about the BB.

think i'm kidding? go to the worker's world party website youself and start reading. WWP is the group behind ANSWER and IAC.

please note: i am not going to disparage ANYONE for fighting against the war. but i am also going to be realistic and know WHO is organising and WHY they are doing it.

again, if you organize with the WWP, you are in no position to claim that BB is 'violent.'


The Worker's World Party:

Defended Maoist China
http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/samsupp/suppress/suppr09.htm

supported the Chinese government's 1989 Tienanmen Square massacre
http://www.workers.org/ww/tienanmen.html

supports the "socialist" North Korean dictatorship of Kim Jong Il
http://www.workers.org/ww/2002/korea0425.php
http://www.workers.org/ww/2002/korea0509.php

views Iraq's Saddam Hussein as a beacon of anti-imperialist resistance
http://www.workers.org/ww/2001/iraq0125.html

defends the genocidal Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic
http://www.iacenter.org/yugo_milosdeligation.htm
http://www.workers.org/ww/2002/larry0228.php
http://www.workers.org/ww/2001/milosevic1108.php
http://shadow.autono.net/sin001/clark.htm

so if you dont want to march with the liberals, then dont. but you just said that a lot of people at the breakaway march came from the main (liberal) march.

want to hold a rally in solidarity with the other (mostly liberal) rallies around the world but have a black bloc there? great, do it in berkeley, or oakland or somewhere where you wont make the main march look bad. do it on another day, so the media doesnt focus everything on the black bloc.
im all for haveing a black bloc, but im against being a parisite on the liberals march.
there is no reason to have the march be a breakaway march rather than a seperate march on a diffrent day.

you are in no position to criticise black bloc. you organize and march with with organizations that advocate mass murder, both in the past and in the present.

block bloc isnt going away. you can whine all you want. you can have your obedient, permitted marches. you can organize and march with mass murderers all you want.

black bloc will still be there, exposing your hypocrisy and exposing capitalism as the true cause of war.

the key question is, how are people vested in the system, and how does that affect (and limit) your resistance?

first off, i dont think i ever said i organized the main march. i didnt. dont assume you know my politics, because you dont.

you can criticize liberal/commie politics all you want, and just because you assume that those are my politics doesnt mean that they are.

i still ask the question, why do you have to be a parasite on the main march? why not hold your own millitant march on a diffrent day?

and please, dont answer this by again telling me that commies are evil...

Well, I appreciate the education on the roots of answer and such but, most of the marchers are not there to support answer. Yes they are extremely good of organizing marches and BB is taking advantage of that fact as are many of us who just want to stop this mass war, are against mass murder, who ever is doing it and for what ever reason.

I suggest we all Stop labeling and starting thinking.

And yes, I've been telling all my errant liberal friends that the democrates are the other side of republicans. Not even the lesser of 2 evils. Hopeless.

Here's to independent media!

the black bloc BREAKS AWAY from the stalinist march in order to show both our opposition to stalinism AND our opposition to capitalism, which is the cause of war. furthermore, it is done in solidarity with people all over the world, no matter their background (yes, even the murderous evil commies -- your friends) who are against the war.

as you well know, BB is a tactic, not a group. i could take your (disingenuous, ridiculous) advice and it wouldn't matter one bit. BB is here until capitalism's gone. attack it all you want, you just expose yourself as someone vested in the war system.

go ahead and stay obedient and waste your time and make yourself feel oh so good about yourself while the bombs drop on kids who have nothing to do with bush or saddam.

i mean, hey, you'll be comfortable, and, afterall, you did your part, right? spent an entire afternoon walking from embarcadero to civic center with a nice permission slip from the police. yup, you showed 'em.

instead of wasting your breath whining over 'parasitic' protesters, why don't you direct your energy towrds stopping this war -- for real? the answer is that you are a part of the very system that rains down night death on brown people and slavs all over the world.

tell me again, tell me all you want. tell me how bad BB is, while you march with your organized murderer friends and pay your taxes for murder, murder, and more fucking murder and get your paycheck and march and make yourself feel better by being obedient to the fucking system that kills.

i love you!!!

It's not "bad,' in a moral sense. But it is outmoded. It wont work again without, at the very least, substantial modification. The essence of conflict is adaption. The police are adapting to BB. If the people who did BB last time don't adapt their tactics, the next time, they will be out maneuvered.

No one wins anything by using the same tactic over and over. Tactics need to vary and to keep varying, so as to, among other things, maintain the element of surprise. Also, it behooves anyone in any conflict to learn from each experience and to use that knowledge to adapt effectively.

Look people, we don't have the strength to employ a strategy of brute force, frontal assaults. We have to outwit our opponents. Repeating the same tactic three time in a row, especially when it was less effective the second time, is witless.

There is nothing, repeat *NOTHING*, to be gained by expending our energy in a futile, doomed, head to head with the cops. Don’t do it. The cops are not the target. They are an impediment on the way to the target, nothing more.

And what is that target? Are we totally clear about what we are trying to do here? We'd better be. There is too much at stake for us not to be. We are not fighting for buildings or streets or intersections or anything physical at all. We are fighting for the space between humanity’s ears.

We are the underdog, coming from behind, weak, disorganized, and at a disadvantage. That does not mean we must lose. It does mean we must use our wits. This is no time to be bashing our heads against a wall. This is the time for psycho-social ju jitsu on a massive scale.

We are in the middle of a crowded fire. Scream, “THEATER!!!!!” Now run for the door.

read this folks:


A Communiqué On Tactics And Organization To The Black Bloc, From Within The Black Bloc. (Second Amended Addition) *July 2001, From Somewhere in The Mid-west *
http://www.sheffieldmayday.ukf.net/articles/blackbloc.htm

Rebuilding a hierarchy opens BB to infiltration and defeat. Use the emergent ideas. Systems thinking man. Autopoetic cells operating far from equilibrium.

If protestors breach the law such as going outside of the march areas or causeing property damage the poliece should take photos and arrest them later. better yet just give them a spot fine and if they cant pay just take their property. That and grab the list of people at the march. dont know what the civil rights people will say about that but there is probably a way somwhere along those lines.

Either that or the police might just happen to put on masks and run around beating some people up and refuse to give their details if the protestors are allowed to do that too..

We are not effective enough.