POOR PEOPLE'S MARCH FOR JUSTICE!!!! NOV. 2ND

"Prop N has been justified through the broad use of racist attacks and
stereotypes that characterize homeless or poor people as all drug addicts or lazy bums."

Uh....characterizing the homeless as drug addicts or bums isn't racist, but your use of the word is very revealing. It shows that you parrot the word as a substitute for real thought. Don't like something on someone? Easy answer - label them a racist.

We look back on those who suffered the poverty and injustices of the Great Depression as examples of American strength and fortitude. We feel appalled that hard working Americans were thrown off their land and out of their factory jobs, while government did nothing.
We are disgusted at the greed and corruption of bankers/corporations that caused the Depression, severely harming this nation.
What is often forgotten is, at the time, these people were regarded with the same contempt that Americans today have for the poor. As it was then, people today think "there is no good excuse" for ending up jobless, in poverty,and it is often regarded as a moral failing. As it was then, today's poor are often stripped of their fundamental rights as American citizens, and no one cares.
I suppose that someday, someone will write an updated version of Grapes of Wrath, about today's disenfranchised, despised poor. The next generation
will be shocked at the primitive social attitudesof turn-of-the-century America. Until then, we must endure such inexcusable crimes as government policies that caused the US to have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the Industrialized world, the most homeless, the highest proportion of families torn apart by poverty, and the most morally contemptable economic disparities.

We look back on those who suffered the poverty and injustices of the Great Depression as examples of American strength and fortitude. We feel appalled that hard working Americans were thrown off their land and out of their factory jobs, while government did nothing.
We are disgusted at the greed and corruption of bankers/corporations that caused the Depression, severely harming this nation.
What is often forgotten is, at the time, these people were regarded with the same contempt that Americans today have for the poor. As it was then, people today think "there is no good excuse" for ending up jobless, in poverty,and it is often regarded as a moral failing. As it was then, today's poor are often stripped of their fundamental rights as American citizens, and no one cares.
I suppose that someday, someone will write an updated version of Grapes of Wrath, about today's disenfranchised, despised poor. The next generation
will be shocked at the primitive social attitudesof turn-of-the-century America. Until then, we must endure such inexcusable crimes as government policies that caused the US to have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the Industrialized world, the most homeless, the highest proportion of families torn apart by poverty, and the most morally contemptable economic disparities.

We look back on those who suffered the poverty and injustices of the Great Depression as examples of American strength and fortitude. We feel appalled that hard working Americans were thrown off their land and out of their factory jobs, while government did nothing.
We are disgusted at the greed and corruption of bankers/corporations that caused the Depression, severely harming this nation.
What is often forgotten is, at the time, these people were regarded with the same contempt that Americans today have for the poor. As it was then, people today think "there is no good excuse" for ending up jobless, in poverty,and it is often regarded as a moral failing. As it was then, today's poor are often stripped of their fundamental rights as American citizens, and no one cares.
I suppose that someday, someone will write an updated version of Grapes of Wrath, about today's disenfranchised, despised poor. The next generation
will be shocked at the primitive social attitudesof turn-of-the-century America. Until then, we must endure such inexcusable crimes as government policies that caused the US to have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the Industrialized world, the most homeless, the highest proportion of families torn apart by poverty, and the most morally contemptable economic disparities.

We look back on those who suffered the poverty and injustices of the Great Depression as examples of American strength and fortitude. We feel appalled that hard working Americans were thrown off their land and out of their factory jobs, while government did nothing.
We are disgusted at the greed and corruption of bankers/corporations that caused the Depression, severely harming this nation.
What is often forgotten is, at the time, these people were regarded with the same contempt that Americans today have for the poor. As it was then, people today think "there is no good excuse" for ending up jobless, in poverty,and it is often regarded as a moral failing. As it was then, today's poor are often stripped of their fundamental rights as American citizens, and no one cares.
I suppose that someday, someone will write an updated version of Grapes of Wrath, about today's disenfranchised, despised poor. The next generation
will be shocked at the primitive social attitudesof turn-of-the-century America. Until then, we must endure such inexcusable crimes as government policies that caused the US to have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the Industrialized world, the most homeless, the highest proportion of families torn apart by poverty, and the most morally contemptable economic disparities.

Dianka,

Could you please define the term poverty for me?

Poverty, at least in my own view, seems to be characterized by malnourishment, lack of adequate clothing, and lack of adequate shelter.

First, I would need to see malnourishment statistics of the United States (which is pretty much non-existent). They have done studies, and mostly what they have come up with is a term they call "food insecurity". Basically this means that the child does receive more than enough food to maintain an acceptable caloric intake (enough to avoid malnourishment), but goes to bed hungry. It is hard for me to understand how you plan on finding people to take you seriously, when the United States has a problem with obesity, not hunger.

The only main cause I could imagine of "food insecurity" in the United States is possible mismanagement of money. I think more effective would be programs that promote sound spending habits. I think this would help with lack of shelter and clothing.

Most people, believe it or not, who live on the streets (beyond those drug abusers and deviants that you want to avoid in your argument) have severe psychological problems.

But I am not sure that the homeless who are addicts (which number up to or are greater than 50% of all homeless in most statistics) can even be characterized as "poor". Drug habits are very expensive, and the addict without the habit probably could provide himself a very decent life.

I think you will find yourself with a problem comparing the problem of homelessness today with that of the Great Depression. Unemployment peaked at a close 25% during the Great Depression, while for the past 20 years it has not risen above 10% (Thank Reagan for that one). The Great Depression affected most people in business, job or no job, simply because people weren't spending. Even at the height of our current recession, we have not hit close to 10% unemployment. Jobs do exist, and you witnessed in the 1990s, even people were able to pick and choose which employer they wanted to work for (not the other way around). It is for this reason that I see the only faults of the current problem to be psychological problems, mismanagement of money, and drug/alcohol abuse.

What do you think?

I would be pleased to read any statistics you have on the issue, in support of your cause.

Thanks.

Think "economic natural selection." 3 of 5 times, the folks panhandling are dope fiends or professional beggars. Another is merely too fucking lazy to get a job. And one is "legitimately" in need. What we *ought* to do is sort out who's who, hire that fifth fellah, and give him the authority to expel the other four from our streets, parks, malls, and so on (and pay him well to do it). Not only would he have a job, but he would likely know where all the bogus "needy" sleep at night, so he could likely lead us right to them.

With all due respect, Juan...I thinkn you are making vast generalizations about the homeless. Sure, there are those who don't have a job, and there are those who have drug and alcohol problems. But for everyone of the people mentioned above, there are families with both parents working "normal" jobs, trying to keep their families afloat as much as possible, and with kids attending school trying to gain an education despite their financial situations.
What societyv seems to be doing now is focusing only on the bad parts of homelessness, blaming EVERY homeless person for the larger issue, and not reconizing how in fact most of the homeless population are hard working people who just need a break or two.

Juan, I understand where you're coming from, but when you merely blame everyone for bad deeds of some, how constructive is it really?



Juan, I understand where you're coming from, but she

Who is Homeless?
(Compiled by Department of Social Services, June 1994)

* Members of intact families comprise an estimated 25% of all people who are homeless. Single women comprise 30%, single men 40%. 20% of homeless people are seniors, while 10% are under 18.

* A disproportionate number of homeless people are people of color.

* Approximately 1/3 of all homeless people nationwide are veterans. About half of these are from the Vietnam era.

* San Francisco has the highest involuntary commitment ("5150") rate in the state. 5150's are incidents of people being involuntarily detained for 72 hours for psychiatric evaluation. This indicates that people are not receiving preventative mental health services, but instead have to be in acute crises before they receive care.

* About 25% of homeless people have a physical disability and 30-40% have a psychiatric disability.

* Estimates that 30-60% of homeless people have an alcohol and/or other drug-related disability reflects uncertainty whether substance abuse is a cause or a symptom of someone's homelessness.

* People suffering from psychiatric or physical illnesses will often self-medicate with illicit drugs or alcohol. This is due in large part to the difficulty in getting proper medical care and the necessary prescription drugs. The result is a large proportion of people dual diagnosed with substance abuse and another disability.

* In 1994-95, 10,967 San Franciscans requested mental health services from public programs. Only 2,333 or 1/5 were eligible to be served.

1. work
2. hospital
3. jail

1.work
2. hospital
3.jail

San Francisco has become a magnet for homeless people. If you're down and out, move to San Francisco.

There are several ways to handle the homeless:

1/ Take them out to the edge of town. Drop them off. Tell them, "Don't ever come back."

2/ Take them up to Mill Valley. Drop them off. Tell them, "Don't ever come back to San Francisco." (note: This option relies on the fact that Mill Valley is run by a bunch of wealthy liberals who will 'care' about these poor wretches.).

3/ Find out where they're from. Buy them a one way Greyhound bus ticket back home. Tell them bye bye, and put them on the bus.

---
My preference: Alternate #1

1) get a real job
2)mental hospital
3)bite me

on a newspaper poll, despite the flawed methodology of telephone polls, they seemed to give high likelihood of N passing, so I cynically assume that it might, and it seems like thinking about the next step after that happens might be wise. Sudden shifts are always the most painful, because if a bunch of people living with the assumption of getting that money are cut off, the next couple months will really suck - they'll probably move to warmer areas of the bay area first, given that it's winter.
Does anyone know when N will go into effect, if it does pass? Would it be in November, or a few months after that?

Poor people are too lazy to do anything, much less march. That's why they are poor.

There was a segment on the OReilly Factor a few months back about the street bums in frisco. The guy OReilly was interviewing suggested the bums be put on a cruise ship, where they would have shelter, food to eat, and the means to get cleaned up.
I have a suggestion that builds on this idea. Why don't we put them on a cruise ship, and sink the fucker with a harpoon anti-ship missle? Yeah, we won't have to worry about the city council wasting their precious time deciding whether or not it's ok for bums to shit all over the place.

Thanks for expressing yourself Newsom but we already knew you were an evil asshole...

Homeless People, Forgotten and Forlorn

TEHRAN TIMES SOCIAL DESK
Rain and snow is beautiful only if you are looking out the window of a warm house. It is 11:00 P.M. Most people have left work and are at home. Some others have never seen a ceiling in their lives. Their ceiling is the dark and sometimes starry sky and their house is every street corner of the city.

It is fall and the weather is still not too cold for sleeping outdoors.

The number of homeless people is increasing daily.

They can be seen on every corner of the city. Some of the causes of homelessness are the high cost of rent, urban unemployment, and rural unemployment causing the migration of large numbers of people to large cities.

There are various types of homeless people. Some are healthy but poor. Others are physically or mentally disabled people who are not receiving assistance. There are also runaway and "throwaway" (abandoned) children and young people living on the street.

Many homeless people die in the streets every year.

Gholamreza Rezaeifar, a Welfare Organization official, said that there is no organization responsible for assisting these people.

Social worker Seyed Ahmad Rahimi said that homeless people are the most oppressed strata of society. He stated that they have no place in society, except street corners.

He said that most of them are men below the age of 30 who have come to the capital seeking work and that some have become addicted to drugs.

He went on to say that most of the poor migrants have no money to return to their hometowns or to rent a room.

He added that they often become depressed because they are separated from their families.

He stated that about 20 percent of these people are very educated.

The homeless are ridiculed by people. Many have lost the ability to adapt to society.

Rahimi said that the homeless want to rent rooms and that most of the homeless addicts want to stop using drugs. Many people ignore the homeless and some do not even view them as human beings.

Some homeless people collect discarded items like glass, stale bread, paper, and metal to sell for recycling, but the small amount of money they earn does not meet their needs.

Imprisoning these people is not a solution and would only raise tension. They would have to return to the streets after serving out their prison terms. A comprehensive plan is needed to solve this social problem.

In responce to Gaffes:
The march is specifically designed to stop faulty generalizations about the poor population. At least those involved recognize that there is a problem and try to make some sort of statement. But as long as you're one of those people who assumes that all associates of a group fall into your stereotypes, then no one will ever be heard.

>Why don't we put them on a cruise ship, and sink the fucker with a harpoon anti-ship missle?

Once I killed a rival nobleman and confiscated his mansion. Then I invited the poor people of Walachia to a free banquet. They came. They sat down to eat. Then I had the doors nailed shut and burned the place down with them trapped inside.

No more poor people.

Be like me, America, and your problems will go away.