July Fourth at Peoples Park

this shit is not appropriate in multiple ways...Pornography is not really appropriate in this manner, especially on IMC... If the poster wants to start his/her own website so they can masturbate to their fucked up thoughts that somehow try and turn this beautiful women into a comment on how fucked up they are...

No I don't mean the women in the picture, I mean the poster of "Lets kill some yankee" for their ignorance in trying to make some sort of statement out of their twisted logic, which somehow may allude me, but if this isn't "abdul" as the person claims...Which I kinda doubt cause it just feels like one of those rightwing posts that keep appearing on the indy media websites ...

Ultimately it just makes me wanna go burn a couple of flags/patriotic illusions on July 4th in People's Park...

I don't really know why I even respond, as I am almost certain that this post will be taken off or just ignored for what it is.... But damn why does anyone even do this shit ... Its not like we go out there and purposefully do this on your shitty wanna be "sources of truth" ie the corporate media... And the idea is tempting, but it is not as productive as trying to engage in dialogue or just showing the respect that you should hope we continue to show to your institutions

don't forget to come out for People's Park ... let's burn some illusions on the Fourth of YouLie

smashing tvs. getting naked in people's park. hot damn, the ruling class must be quaking in its boots.

so much for active resistance. even "radicals" are part of the spectacle now.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020701/168/1s58c.html

When the good old 'under god' flag gets torched?

<yawn>

keep trying

I'm surprised that folks would bother posting comments about how silly this event is. Of course its silly. Its July Fourth in Peoples Park, for gods sake. Some things we do to directly confront the ruling class. Other things we do to have fun, to keep our spirits up in this fucked up society. For the last 6 or 7 years, people have been transforming July 4th from a celebration of America into a community based, decidedly unpatriotic party in the park. Its not marching on Wall Street with torches, but it sure is a fun way to enjoy a sunny day off.

All that aside, none of the posts actually mentioned why flag burning would hurt our cause. Its not the most revolutionary of ideas, but if it doesn't hurt anything, why complain?

(For those concerned about police response, the cops generally stand by, then harass the folks cleaning up, but haven't actually tried to arrest anyone for the last few years at least.)

I don't want to discourage anybody from coming to this exciting, fun, and playful way to show yoru social consciousness in the middle of a nasty time of war and repression, but i do want to note that the Berkeley cops have recently been more hostile than in earlier periods especially around spontaneous (i.e. un-permitted) events especially around Telegraph Avenue (witness MayDay eve). So be prepared to push your way thru or around them. Also because of 9/11 there will more patriotism this year. But maybe the cops will have too much hassles dealing with drunkies down at the Marina. So stay loose and watch your back.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves. You all take advantage of everything this country has to offer- but refuse to offer your thanks or respect. Go ahead and have your flag burnings and tv smashings... guess what- no one cares! This country is solidly patriotic. Everyone thinks Berkeley is a joke- because of your actions. Go ahead and keep thinking you are making a difference- and that people care--- cause to the rest of the country- you're a circus freak show, and will never be taken seriously. I guess you shouldn't be ashamed... I just feel sorry for you pathetic types.

In general, I agree this is just some fun thing to do, the burning flags are nice to see, etc. However I would like to address this strategic question:

"All that aside, none of the posts actually mentioned why flag burning would hurt our cause. Its not the most revolutionary of ideas, but if it doesn't hurt anything, why complain?"

1. Last year, there were like 3 cops videotaping about 20 people burning flags. That means you are all surveilled doing something that makes most Americans sick. It is basically a way to say "we are the most disrespectful and anti-american people in berkeley, take our picture, now you know who we are."

2. I think the way it is done lends itself towards feeding stereotypes of Berkeley as disconnected from the rest of the country, not entirely serious, or on the wingnut side of the lefty left. Dont get me wrong, I think burning the flag is good and that a lot of people can get behind that. But in the context of in peoples park, with the requisite post-hippie performance art style weirdness, it fits a stereotype that I personally dont quite get. Maybe thats good or bad, but i think its something to be said. It contributes to a strange spectacle that is berkeley "resistance"

... like i said, keep trying

<yawn>

Craig,
yeah.. a couple months ago the SF mime troupe people plus others pulled off a hilarious stunt in pepl's park where they acted like they would have a patriotic flag rally, and went around wearing suits passing out flyers for it. It sounded so bizarre that lots of people just had to attend - because if it was for real, what would your stoners by the free box do? It turned out to be a hoax where the conservatives introduced eXtreme elvis and the extraaction marching band who did erotic dancing on top of the freebox, and some mentally unstable people started burning the flags:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/03/117520.php

Have you ever noticed that there is a zone or vortex of highest freak + social problem density in Berkeley above Shattuck St. that starts at Haste st. and ends a block over at Dwight, and extends a half block past either street? not to exaggerate, but so much goes on there, and it's not just people's park and the obvious scene in front of cafe med. Both of the two murders in southside in the past 2 years have been in this zone. There is a mentally ill guy who dresses exactly like Hitler who lives at a roomming house on Dwight next to the house with a wagon in the yard. There are a lot of mentally ill on the street - a schizophrenic guy who keeps harrassing and mailing delusional threatening letters to someone in my building lives in the house at Atherton and haste where he has a gold jeep parked in the front yard, and he has two videocameras trained on the jeep because he is paranoid and thinks someone will touch it. (There are several roomming houses in this zone that fit the freakiness category where there are about 20+ students crammed into tight quarters - and there are quite a few Lakireddy Reddy properties, plus the old Barrington Hall co-op which got shut down for pushing over the limit is on haste). A 'massage parlor' at haste and shattuck was just shut down for being a front for a brothel, and if you pay attention to various businesses on haste and dwight and shattuck, a few of them don't seem to make sense at all. Why is that stereo store at haste/shattuck in prime real estate never open ever? and same for several others. There is a bonafide cult located in a victorian on Ellsworth between haste and dwight. The San Jose metroactive did a cover story on them (this is worth skimming - a lot of local businesses like mcnevin cadillac and black&white liquors have a connection): http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/06.07.01/cover/cult-0123.html
A lot of the pictures of stuff happening during the late 60s in terms of riots was on telegraph within half a block of haste and shattuck. That one guy who was shot by the blue meanie police was on the roof of a house very near dwight. Fraternity row on friday night can be a bit odd too.

Burning the flag is stupid. Smashing tv's is highly anti-environmental not to mention getting old and unoriginal.

I think burning the American flag doesn't undermine nationalism one iota and if you're trying to show resistance do it in the Marina district of SF.

Like one poster said it just makes Berkeley look like a bunch of wingnuts.

I know a few testostorine-charged white guys will do their boring burn the American flag routine. How about burning the Israeli flag, the Palestinian flag, the black flag and any other ones? at least you'd be making a general statement against nationalism.

Basically i think radicals should find intelligent and creative ways of bringing crticisms of patriotism to working class Americans. Doing trite, smug little (and i mean very little) acts of "defiance" just provokes more patriotic idiocy.

M. Wingnut tells us this is a "silly" event. I think stupid would be the more accurate adjective. We need to build opposition to the war on terrorism not unthinking knee-jerk spectacles that just aid the state. If you haven't noticed since 911 the world is a much more dangerous place.

To the people that support this event i urge to rethink your thinking. I think you are extremely out of touch about "where things are at" in America post-911.

Burning the American flag in Berkeley is no big thing...

In fact, it demonstrates the freedom we do enjoy right here in America. In other parts of the world they'd arrest you and kill you in a nano-second, or string you up by your genitals for neighborhood amusement.

Even from a pagan/wiccan viewpoint, fire equates to spirit , so consuming the symbol of America in flames could be considered a ritual of spiritual empowerment for the very thing you criticize.

When you guys smash TVs (Ho-hum *yawn*) you seem to invariably put large holes and dents in the People's Park stage so PLEASE be careful and don't destroy the stage like you have done the past few years. Last year you almost set the People's Park stage and the surrounding grass on fire with your pyromaniac antics. Be careful with your wingnut activities!

How about this year we do something novel in people's park? People show up, hose off the people's park residents, and those who aren't too drug-addled or crazy, we help them get jobs?

There's lots of day laborers who stand all day by the hardware/lumber yard near the freeway who compete desperately for jobs, but often a lot of them don't get any work all week. Should help them out too: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2002-03-20/feature.html/1/index.html

The stage was not damaged last year. This is ridiculous.

Your whole silly scenario of the vortex of coinsiding events just shows that this area must be the place to be. Let's see, groups of crazy, creative iconoclastic people who go the against the grain of the 9-5 society, I want to meet them; Barrington Hall, a politically and culturally radical student co-op
that was radical from the 30's to the '80's shut down by a collusion of the city and the university; People's Park, a communiy created and run (as much as we can get away with-it still is oned by the University) park, with gardens of native plants, a free box, a place where people crazy and not-so-crazy can can decompose from the commerce of Telegraph Avenue, etc, and a gen-u-wine "cult group" (as told to us by a Yuppie paper from San Jose) that can't be any less cultish than the Catholic Chuch which is every neighborhood in the world, or our "under God" fundamentalists; and riots against wars killing millions or against police brutality or a university run rampant, makes this a place that sounds rather sane in a crazy world.
See you all in a couple of hours in People's Park.

The stage was not damaged last year. This is ridiculous.

Hi,
That was the most hilarious link I've looked at in months - it brought tears to my eyes I was laughing so hard! I wish I could have been there. I've also been wondering about SF Mime troupe - where have they been lately?

I appreciated your in-depth awareness of the community, albeit the insanity of it. When I lived in a huge apt bldg in NYC there was also a lot of insanity - the person across from us would cover her door in different Halloween masks every day, sometimes just one mask with a lifesaver stuck in the mouth, sometimes tuft of hair strewn down the hall . . . but think of NY now - all cleaned up and set up for yuppies (as much as it can be). I miss that craziness sometimes and it'll be a miracle if Berkeley isn't yuppified entirely soon.

Another point - the *entire* rest of the country depends on Berkeley to take the first steps in radicalism. My brother listening to right-wing radio in central NY knows more about what the B. city council is doing than I do! If Berkeley did it, the rest of the country can not only banter it back and forth, but *some of them* can be the next one's to do it, whatever that may be, since Berkeley showed them the way. This craziness is an important element in our society, the same way that humans have an incredible variety of genes.

I used to live in lower Haight and I know what it's like to completely burn out on damn homeless and teenagers who scream at you if you don't give them money, vomit all over (esp after the Haight St fair), etc. It does have a permanent impact on the immediate population, but plays a whole different role outside of that realm, which is important.

Anyway, I really just wanted to stay thanks for the posting and hang in there on dealing with pp & berk crazies.

(ps. just a thought - have you ever considered getting involved with the berk city council, on one of their committees? Dean is stacking them with zionists and there are vacancies on some of them).