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150+ UC Professors Call for Divestment from Israel
150+ UC Professors Call for Divestment from Israel; Campaign Reaching New Heights
BERKELEY, CA- Over 150 faculty from across the University of California campuses, from Berkeley to Los Angeles, have stepped forward in support of a UC system--wide campaign to divest from Israel; a campaign to be announced officially at a press conference on June 4th. The divestment campaign, spearheaded by the UC Berkeley chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine, has gained renewed energy in light of recent events in Palestine and SJP’s April 9th National Day of Action and Divestment launch, during which 79 activists, including 41 students, were arrested.
Thus far 134 UC professors have signed the University of California Faculty Petition for Divestment from Israel, which can be found at http://www.ucdivest.org. The petition calls for the UC “to use its influence - political and financial - to encourage the United States government and the government of Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinian people” and for divestment until Israel ceases its ongoing violations of international laws, such as the Fourth Geneva Convention and several UN Security Council Resolutions. [See attached document 1]
“For half a century, Israel has had military dominance in the Middle East but has not had peace. Military occupation, colonization, seizures of lands, destruction of houses and orchards, assassinations, expulsions have not brought security, but terror from both sides that will escalate to disaster,” says UC Berkeley Psychology Professor Emeritus Susan Ervin-Tripp. “The US, whose founding ideology should favor side by side independence and self-government, instead increases the tension by providing arms and money without restriction. It is time for us to unequivocally side with peace and Palestinian independence in every possible way.”
The divestment campaign was officially launched nationwide at over 40 university campuses on April 9, 2002, with student demonstrations commemorating the 1948 Deir Yassin Massacre. Many UC professors were alerted to the campaign by the rally and symbolic occupation of Wheeler Hall, led by Students for Justice in Palestine (Berkeley). After 79 demonstrators were arrested for the peaceful sit-in on April 9, the UC-Berkeley administration suspended SJP as a student group. While the UC administration has since lifted the suspension due to overwhelming public support for SJP, it continues to threaten 41 UC Berkeley students who participated in the sit-in with harsh student conduct charges and severe academic sanctions, including a year of academic suspension. Several dozen UC Berkeley faculty have rallied in support of these students’ rights to free speech and peaceful protest, circulating another petition which urges Chancellor Berdhal and the UC administration to drop the student conduct charges against the student protestors.
The UC faculty divestment petition follows a precedent set by the anti-apartheid campaign of the 1980’s, when students, professors, and university employees called for an end to university investments in apartheid South Africa. Recognizing that the divestment campaigns of the 1980s played a significant role in the movement to end apartheid in South Africa, SJP-Berkeley began a divestment petition a year and a half ago, that has over 6,000 signatures. The new UC Faculty-led divestment initiative signals a new level of support for the growing divestment campaign. Faculty petitions for divestment from Israel have also been started at other major universities, such as Harvard, MIT, Princeton, and Tufts, where there have received widespread support.
"Our President continues to issue toothless and ambiguous statements, while the Congress remains largely an 'occupied territory,’ “ says Molecular and Cell Biology Professor Emeritus Joe Neilands, of UC Berkeley. “This petition is a new initiative for peace in the Middle East and since it goes directly to the people it affords a by-pass around compromised and corrupted individuals and institutions.”
“Such support from faculty and community is monumental,” says SJP organizer Hoang Gia Phan. “UC divestment from the apartheid state of Israel was the primary demand of our peaceful protest on April 9. The struggle against the university’s complicity in Israel’s present-day apartheid, its illegal occupation, and its ongoing violations of the human rights of the Palestinian people, is nothing without the faculty’s support. Such support demonstrates that people of conscience throughout the academic community, and throughout the U.S, are saying together: "Not in my name!’ ”
###
[CURRENT LIST OF FACULTY SIGNATURES AVAILABLE AT http://WWW.UCDIVEST.ORG]
University of California Faculty Petition for Divestment from Israel
We, the undersigned are appalled by the human rights abuses against Palestinians at the hands of the Israeli government, the continual military occupation and colonization of Palestinian territory by Israeli armed forces and settlers, and the forcible eviction from and demolition of Palestinian homes, towns and cities. We find the recent attacks on Israeli civilians unacceptable and abhorrent. But these should not and do not negate the human rights of the Palestinian people.
As members of the University of California community, we believe that our university ought to use its influence - political and financial - to encourage the United States government and the government of Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinian people. We therefore call on the US government to make military aid and arms sales to Israel conditional on immediate initiation and rapid progress in implementing the conditions listed below. We also call on the University of California to divest from Israel, and from US companies that sell arms to Israel, until these conditions are met:
1. Israel is in compliance with United Nations Resolution 242 which notes the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war, and which calls for withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from occupied territories.
2. Israel is in compliance with the United Nations Committee Against Torture 2001 Report which recommends that Israel's use of legal torture be ended.
3. In compliance with the Fourth Geneva Convention ("The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into territories it occupies"; Article 49, paragraph 6), Israel ceases building new settlements, and vacates existing settlements, in the Occupied Territories.
4. Israel acknowledges in principle the applicability of United Nations Resolution 194 with respect to the rights of refugees, and accepts that refugees should either be allowed to return to their former lands or else be compensated for their losses, as agreed by the Palestinians and Israelis in bilateral negotiations.
Thus far 134 UC professors have signed the University of California Faculty Petition for Divestment from Israel, which can be found at http://www.ucdivest.org. The petition calls for the UC “to use its influence - political and financial - to encourage the United States government and the government of Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinian people” and for divestment until Israel ceases its ongoing violations of international laws, such as the Fourth Geneva Convention and several UN Security Council Resolutions. [See attached document 1]
“For half a century, Israel has had military dominance in the Middle East but has not had peace. Military occupation, colonization, seizures of lands, destruction of houses and orchards, assassinations, expulsions have not brought security, but terror from both sides that will escalate to disaster,” says UC Berkeley Psychology Professor Emeritus Susan Ervin-Tripp. “The US, whose founding ideology should favor side by side independence and self-government, instead increases the tension by providing arms and money without restriction. It is time for us to unequivocally side with peace and Palestinian independence in every possible way.”
The divestment campaign was officially launched nationwide at over 40 university campuses on April 9, 2002, with student demonstrations commemorating the 1948 Deir Yassin Massacre. Many UC professors were alerted to the campaign by the rally and symbolic occupation of Wheeler Hall, led by Students for Justice in Palestine (Berkeley). After 79 demonstrators were arrested for the peaceful sit-in on April 9, the UC-Berkeley administration suspended SJP as a student group. While the UC administration has since lifted the suspension due to overwhelming public support for SJP, it continues to threaten 41 UC Berkeley students who participated in the sit-in with harsh student conduct charges and severe academic sanctions, including a year of academic suspension. Several dozen UC Berkeley faculty have rallied in support of these students’ rights to free speech and peaceful protest, circulating another petition which urges Chancellor Berdhal and the UC administration to drop the student conduct charges against the student protestors.
The UC faculty divestment petition follows a precedent set by the anti-apartheid campaign of the 1980’s, when students, professors, and university employees called for an end to university investments in apartheid South Africa. Recognizing that the divestment campaigns of the 1980s played a significant role in the movement to end apartheid in South Africa, SJP-Berkeley began a divestment petition a year and a half ago, that has over 6,000 signatures. The new UC Faculty-led divestment initiative signals a new level of support for the growing divestment campaign. Faculty petitions for divestment from Israel have also been started at other major universities, such as Harvard, MIT, Princeton, and Tufts, where there have received widespread support.
"Our President continues to issue toothless and ambiguous statements, while the Congress remains largely an 'occupied territory,’ “ says Molecular and Cell Biology Professor Emeritus Joe Neilands, of UC Berkeley. “This petition is a new initiative for peace in the Middle East and since it goes directly to the people it affords a by-pass around compromised and corrupted individuals and institutions.”
“Such support from faculty and community is monumental,” says SJP organizer Hoang Gia Phan. “UC divestment from the apartheid state of Israel was the primary demand of our peaceful protest on April 9. The struggle against the university’s complicity in Israel’s present-day apartheid, its illegal occupation, and its ongoing violations of the human rights of the Palestinian people, is nothing without the faculty’s support. Such support demonstrates that people of conscience throughout the academic community, and throughout the U.S, are saying together: "Not in my name!’ ”
###
[CURRENT LIST OF FACULTY SIGNATURES AVAILABLE AT http://WWW.UCDIVEST.ORG]
University of California Faculty Petition for Divestment from Israel
We, the undersigned are appalled by the human rights abuses against Palestinians at the hands of the Israeli government, the continual military occupation and colonization of Palestinian territory by Israeli armed forces and settlers, and the forcible eviction from and demolition of Palestinian homes, towns and cities. We find the recent attacks on Israeli civilians unacceptable and abhorrent. But these should not and do not negate the human rights of the Palestinian people.
As members of the University of California community, we believe that our university ought to use its influence - political and financial - to encourage the United States government and the government of Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinian people. We therefore call on the US government to make military aid and arms sales to Israel conditional on immediate initiation and rapid progress in implementing the conditions listed below. We also call on the University of California to divest from Israel, and from US companies that sell arms to Israel, until these conditions are met:
1. Israel is in compliance with United Nations Resolution 242 which notes the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war, and which calls for withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from occupied territories.
2. Israel is in compliance with the United Nations Committee Against Torture 2001 Report which recommends that Israel's use of legal torture be ended.
3. In compliance with the Fourth Geneva Convention ("The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into territories it occupies"; Article 49, paragraph 6), Israel ceases building new settlements, and vacates existing settlements, in the Occupied Territories.
4. Israel acknowledges in principle the applicability of United Nations Resolution 194 with respect to the rights of refugees, and accepts that refugees should either be allowed to return to their former lands or else be compensated for their losses, as agreed by the Palestinians and Israelis in bilateral negotiations.
For more information:
http://www.ucdivest.org
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Gov. Davis feels that California should continue to support the apartheid policies of Israel. Apparently Davis is unaware of the racist similarities between Israel and the former apartheid poliices of South Africa.
California governor says state won't divest Israeli holdings
By Reuters
LOS ANGELES - California Gov. Gray Davis assured Israeli officials on Friday that he would not yield to any political pressure to divest the state's pension fund of its Israeli holdings.
Speaking on the day after an Egyptian gunman fatally shot two Israelis at the El Al ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport, Davis pledged the state's ongoing economic support for Israel.
Davis, a Democrat who is running for reelection in November, made the statement at a meeting with Jewish leaders at the Jewish Federation of Los Angeles following a telephone conference with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
"To those critics in California that would have us divest our pension ... as long as the people of California want me to be governor, we will be doing business with Israel," Davis told Jewish leaders as well as reporters.
Read the rest here:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=183765&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0
Write to Governor Davis and tell him what you think about supporting apartheid in Israel:
Governor Gray Davis
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-445-4633
governor [at] governor.ca.gov
California governor says state won't divest Israeli holdings
By Reuters
LOS ANGELES - California Gov. Gray Davis assured Israeli officials on Friday that he would not yield to any political pressure to divest the state's pension fund of its Israeli holdings.
Speaking on the day after an Egyptian gunman fatally shot two Israelis at the El Al ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport, Davis pledged the state's ongoing economic support for Israel.
Davis, a Democrat who is running for reelection in November, made the statement at a meeting with Jewish leaders at the Jewish Federation of Los Angeles following a telephone conference with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
"To those critics in California that would have us divest our pension ... as long as the people of California want me to be governor, we will be doing business with Israel," Davis told Jewish leaders as well as reporters.
Read the rest here:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=183765&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0
Write to Governor Davis and tell him what you think about supporting apartheid in Israel:
Governor Gray Davis
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-445-4633
governor [at] governor.ca.gov
Why you think anyone anywhere is going to be influenced by calprofs is a mystery.
California is such a stupid place to live that the profs lose all credibility by just being there.
I'm for divestment in california.
Give it to Mexico.
California is such a stupid place to live that the profs lose all credibility by just being there.
I'm for divestment in california.
Give it to Mexico.
The SJP and all the professors who supported them should be ashamed of themselves. Staging an anti-Israel protest on Yom HaShoa (the Holocaust rememberance day) just goes to show that their protest is an affront all jews. Still they presented a weak defense calling out the memories of Deir Yassin -- only to their further discredit in the eyes of anyone knowledgable in history.
The attack on Deir Yassin came after a four month period in which 850 jews were killed in a four month period (eight and a half times the number of people killed at deir yassin). On top of this staggering information, Deir Yassin was not a frivolous act of violence on the side of the israelis. Their were reports (later confirmed by an arab research study at Bir Zeit University) which mentioned a build up of foreign soldiers, stockpiling of weapons, and the creation of fortifications. The people of Deir Yassin knew what they were in for. To call it a massacre is a bastardization of the word. This was an armed conflict and no precedent whatsoever for a protest fifty some odd years later. But yet a couple of Berkley students thought they were clever enough to drudge up a past event so they could protest on Yom Hashoa. Couldn't they have just done the next day and save some sort of integrity?
MOT
The attack on Deir Yassin came after a four month period in which 850 jews were killed in a four month period (eight and a half times the number of people killed at deir yassin). On top of this staggering information, Deir Yassin was not a frivolous act of violence on the side of the israelis. Their were reports (later confirmed by an arab research study at Bir Zeit University) which mentioned a build up of foreign soldiers, stockpiling of weapons, and the creation of fortifications. The people of Deir Yassin knew what they were in for. To call it a massacre is a bastardization of the word. This was an armed conflict and no precedent whatsoever for a protest fifty some odd years later. But yet a couple of Berkley students thought they were clever enough to drudge up a past event so they could protest on Yom Hashoa. Couldn't they have just done the next day and save some sort of integrity?
MOT
I’m Jewish and I see a strong connection between Palestinian rights and the Holocaust. We promised after World War Two to fight against any society heading in the direction of the Nazis. Israel's efforts to keep Israel religiously pure remind me a little too much of what we should be fighting against. Unlike other occupied territories Israel not only refuses to give independence to the West Bank and Gaza but also would never accept the people in these regions as part of Israel. Its racism plain and simple.
Israel’s actions betray the memory of the Holocaust. There is no better time to protest Israel's actions than on its anniversary.
Israel’s actions betray the memory of the Holocaust. There is no better time to protest Israel's actions than on its anniversary.
Well, I am also Jewish, and I think a comparison of Israeli policy to Nazism demonstrates ignorance of either one or the other. The Nazis didn't offer the Jews of Europe fifty years of opportunities to live in peace, only to have them refused one after the other. And to even _imply_ that the Israeli policies are genocidal is to surrender to empty rheoric.
@%<
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Israel has not offered 50 years of peace to the Palestinians, it has offered 50 years of being second-class citizens in an occupied territory. No peace agreement yet offered a REAL state.
Of course Israel hasn't executed millions of people and it can't be compared in that way to the Nazis. What appalls me is not those using the memory of the Holocaust to help fight for social justice, its those cynical anti-Semites using the memory of the Holocaust to oppress others. You should be ashamed of yourself and are betraying the memory of those who were killed by the Nazis. Not only were my relatives killed in Poland for being Jewish, but now we have conservative fucks running around trying to justify Israel’s actions by using their names in vain. Many of my relatives in Poland were socialists and spent their lives fighting for equality. How DARE you use their names to justify a state that is based on religious purity.
Of course Israel hasn't executed millions of people and it can't be compared in that way to the Nazis. What appalls me is not those using the memory of the Holocaust to help fight for social justice, its those cynical anti-Semites using the memory of the Holocaust to oppress others. You should be ashamed of yourself and are betraying the memory of those who were killed by the Nazis. Not only were my relatives killed in Poland for being Jewish, but now we have conservative fucks running around trying to justify Israel’s actions by using their names in vain. Many of my relatives in Poland were socialists and spent their lives fighting for equality. How DARE you use their names to justify a state that is based on religious purity.
"No peace agreement yet offered a REAL state."
Nonsense. Study the history a little more closely, and get the bumper stickers out of your ears. If the Arabs had accepted the UN Partition of 1947, they'd have had a Palestinian state half a century ago -- a REAL state, considerably larger than anything they're likely to get now. Too bad they decided to try to wipe Israel out instead of going for the handshake.
"Of course Israel hasn't executed millions of people and it can't be compared in that way to the Nazis."
Thank you for acknowledging this. Sometimes I think it's the biggest secret on the IMCs.
"You should be ashamed of yourself and are betraying the memory of those who were killed by the Nazis."
Oh, look, someone wagging a finger at me.
You don't know me. You don't know what I do or don't do about the memory of those who were killed by the Nazis. You don't know to what degree I have studied it or not studied it. You don't know to what degree I have studied or not studied the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. You don't know my political stance, my stance on the Palestinian state, or anything else about me except that I hit your hot button so you're going to wave your finger at me
Pardon me for not being impressed.
"Not only were my relatives killed in Poland for being Jewish, but now we have conservative fucks running around trying to justify Israel?s actions by using their names in vain. "
And others trying to condemn Israel's actions by using their names in vain in vapid and false analogies. Your having relatives killed in Poland no more gives you the right to declare what the Holocaust "means" for the Arab-Israeli conflict than my having relatives killed in the eastern USSR by the Einsatzgruppen gives _me_ the right to declare what the Holocaust "means." And it certainly doesn't give me the right to shout "you are betraying their memory" and "HOW DARE YOU" and similar other screeches if your conclusions differ from mine.
@%<
Nonsense. Study the history a little more closely, and get the bumper stickers out of your ears. If the Arabs had accepted the UN Partition of 1947, they'd have had a Palestinian state half a century ago -- a REAL state, considerably larger than anything they're likely to get now. Too bad they decided to try to wipe Israel out instead of going for the handshake.
"Of course Israel hasn't executed millions of people and it can't be compared in that way to the Nazis."
Thank you for acknowledging this. Sometimes I think it's the biggest secret on the IMCs.
"You should be ashamed of yourself and are betraying the memory of those who were killed by the Nazis."
Oh, look, someone wagging a finger at me.
You don't know me. You don't know what I do or don't do about the memory of those who were killed by the Nazis. You don't know to what degree I have studied it or not studied it. You don't know to what degree I have studied or not studied the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. You don't know my political stance, my stance on the Palestinian state, or anything else about me except that I hit your hot button so you're going to wave your finger at me
Pardon me for not being impressed.
"Not only were my relatives killed in Poland for being Jewish, but now we have conservative fucks running around trying to justify Israel?s actions by using their names in vain. "
And others trying to condemn Israel's actions by using their names in vain in vapid and false analogies. Your having relatives killed in Poland no more gives you the right to declare what the Holocaust "means" for the Arab-Israeli conflict than my having relatives killed in the eastern USSR by the Einsatzgruppen gives _me_ the right to declare what the Holocaust "means." And it certainly doesn't give me the right to shout "you are betraying their memory" and "HOW DARE YOU" and similar other screeches if your conclusions differ from mine.
@%<
Israel could not have offered the palestinian people (if there is such a thing) anything for fifty years, whether a state or second-class citizenship, since it only acquired the west bank and gaza in 1967. On top of this the arabs occupying the British Mandated Palestine before 1948 offered arabs represeted by Haj Amin their own state (alongside the future jewish state) which they rejected, in hopes of completely ousting all efforts to reach a peaceful co-existence. The "palestinian" arabs instead chose to voice their objections to the British in the form of fedayeen raids on jewish homes in Hebron in 1921 (which resulted in the deaths of 134 INNOCENT people -- much more than Deir Yassin) and rioting.
Also, the memory of the holocaust not only signifies triumphing social justice but an end to appeasement in the face of the disregard of the preciousness of human life. Could social justice have prevented hitler and the nationalism of WWII-era germany? Not likely!! Yet the reason for the rise of monsters like hitler is appeasement. Britain's Lord Halifax and Neville Chamberlain tried to make deals with Hitler, and were burned in the end. They ALLOWED Hitler to take poland and Czechoslovakia. They ALLOWED him to rise to power. If your ancestors who were killed in the holocaust were alive today and living in Israel would they allow themselves to be victim to the same appeasement which caused the Holocaust?
MOT
Also, the memory of the holocaust not only signifies triumphing social justice but an end to appeasement in the face of the disregard of the preciousness of human life. Could social justice have prevented hitler and the nationalism of WWII-era germany? Not likely!! Yet the reason for the rise of monsters like hitler is appeasement. Britain's Lord Halifax and Neville Chamberlain tried to make deals with Hitler, and were burned in the end. They ALLOWED Hitler to take poland and Czechoslovakia. They ALLOWED him to rise to power. If your ancestors who were killed in the holocaust were alive today and living in Israel would they allow themselves to be victim to the same appeasement which caused the Holocaust?
MOT
Weren’t you the one telling people not to protest on Yom Hashoa? That’s what I was taking as using the name of the Holocaust to justify oppression.
As for 1949, that’s not when the conflict in Palestine started.
The first Aliya looked a lot like any form of European colonization. I have issues with it from that standpoint but there wasn’t much conflict at that time between the settlers and the local population (and there WAS a large local population). The reason the first Aliya was peaceful was that the Jewish plantation owners bought their land from Ottoman plantation owners and still hired Palestinian labor since the European settlers couldn’t compete in the open labor market.
The real problems started during the Second Aliya when the JNF and WZO started trying to create majority Jewish areas. Attempts to do this through the hiring of Jews from Yemen worked briefly but there was open racism from the Ashkenazim. The creation of the kvutza and later kibbutz system made direct settlement easier and was based on the racist idea of creating all Jewish (and at first all Ashkenazi) areas.
Most Jewish settlement before WWII was normal European colonialism (with an almost Australian or US style disrespect for the native population). How then can people claim that the refusal of Palestinians to accept the UN agreement in 1949 was unjust. If an agreement had been presented to the Indians during independence giving part of their land to the British, would they have been unjust to have refused this? Was the unwillingness of the ANC in South Africa to accept homelands unjust?
The Jewish population in Israel in 1949 was not local (most of the Middle Eastern Jews who moved to Israel moved there around this time or later). The desire by Palestinians to not give up their land was completely legitimate. Now things are different since the Israeli population is larger and cant go anywhere. From today’s perspective the UN offer in 1949 looks great for the Palestinians but at the time it was obviously unacceptable.
What makes the position of Israel completely egregious isn’t just the occupation. China occupies Tibet and India Kashmir, it’s that Israel does this with no pretence of making the occupied territories part of Israel. While China’s actions in Tibet are horrible, a worker in Tibet can relocate to other parts of China and get a job (if they can find a job). A Palestinian in Gaza has no similar right to move to Tel Aviv. Of course Palestinians (as well as Tibetan and Kashmiris) want their own state and not just equal rights in the occupying state, but unlike China, Israel doesn’t even give the people in the land it occupies the pretence of equality.
As for 1949, that’s not when the conflict in Palestine started.
The first Aliya looked a lot like any form of European colonization. I have issues with it from that standpoint but there wasn’t much conflict at that time between the settlers and the local population (and there WAS a large local population). The reason the first Aliya was peaceful was that the Jewish plantation owners bought their land from Ottoman plantation owners and still hired Palestinian labor since the European settlers couldn’t compete in the open labor market.
The real problems started during the Second Aliya when the JNF and WZO started trying to create majority Jewish areas. Attempts to do this through the hiring of Jews from Yemen worked briefly but there was open racism from the Ashkenazim. The creation of the kvutza and later kibbutz system made direct settlement easier and was based on the racist idea of creating all Jewish (and at first all Ashkenazi) areas.
Most Jewish settlement before WWII was normal European colonialism (with an almost Australian or US style disrespect for the native population). How then can people claim that the refusal of Palestinians to accept the UN agreement in 1949 was unjust. If an agreement had been presented to the Indians during independence giving part of their land to the British, would they have been unjust to have refused this? Was the unwillingness of the ANC in South Africa to accept homelands unjust?
The Jewish population in Israel in 1949 was not local (most of the Middle Eastern Jews who moved to Israel moved there around this time or later). The desire by Palestinians to not give up their land was completely legitimate. Now things are different since the Israeli population is larger and cant go anywhere. From today’s perspective the UN offer in 1949 looks great for the Palestinians but at the time it was obviously unacceptable.
What makes the position of Israel completely egregious isn’t just the occupation. China occupies Tibet and India Kashmir, it’s that Israel does this with no pretence of making the occupied territories part of Israel. While China’s actions in Tibet are horrible, a worker in Tibet can relocate to other parts of China and get a job (if they can find a job). A Palestinian in Gaza has no similar right to move to Tel Aviv. Of course Palestinians (as well as Tibetan and Kashmiris) want their own state and not just equal rights in the occupying state, but unlike China, Israel doesn’t even give the people in the land it occupies the pretence of equality.
Then it is hypocritical not to label several dozen more, mostly African and Arab, the same. It's amazing that the countries that are the most racist and facist don't inspire the ire of lefties only because there doesn't seem a way to manipulate that to their advantage. Lefties only care about opression when they can exploit it from their own ideologic purposes.
Arab states were also set up by the British but there is a difference between unjust laws and occupation. Its one thing to be oppressed equally but it is worse to be singled out. Saudi Arabia's treatment of women is probably the worst in the world and I would support a movement in Saudi Arabia to change this. Unfortunately the main groups seeking to change Saudi Arabia right now are fundamentalists.
Since I'm Jewish and have some ties to Israel (as do many Leftists) I feel a responsibility towards social justice there that I don’t feel towards other countries.
Also, the US support for Israel means that protests to change Israel need to happen here. Yes, the US also supports Egypt and sells arms to the Saudis, but activists in the US can do little to change that. US support for Egypt and Saudi Arabia is openly geopolitical whereas people pretend that support for Israel has something to do with Israel being a democracy (which it is not since most of the people in the West Bank and Gaza can't vote in the Israeli elections).
In any case pointing to one horrible situation to justify inaction on another makes little sense. No point in complaining about Bosnia since Rwanda was ignored? No point in complaining about Marcos in the Philippines because the Left wasn’t protesting enough against the USSR? Not point in protesting the Nazi genocide because the world ignored the Armenian genocide?
There are groups around the Bay Area that only protest about Tibet. I think it’s a little weird that that may be the only issue they protest about, but I don’t use that to attack them and say they are wrong. The situation in Tibet is evil and needs world attention. The situation in Saudi Arabia is wrong and needs attention. The situation in the West Bank and Gaza is wrong and deserves even more action by activists in the US since the US is the one propping up the Israeli state.
Since I'm Jewish and have some ties to Israel (as do many Leftists) I feel a responsibility towards social justice there that I don’t feel towards other countries.
Also, the US support for Israel means that protests to change Israel need to happen here. Yes, the US also supports Egypt and sells arms to the Saudis, but activists in the US can do little to change that. US support for Egypt and Saudi Arabia is openly geopolitical whereas people pretend that support for Israel has something to do with Israel being a democracy (which it is not since most of the people in the West Bank and Gaza can't vote in the Israeli elections).
In any case pointing to one horrible situation to justify inaction on another makes little sense. No point in complaining about Bosnia since Rwanda was ignored? No point in complaining about Marcos in the Philippines because the Left wasn’t protesting enough against the USSR? Not point in protesting the Nazi genocide because the world ignored the Armenian genocide?
There are groups around the Bay Area that only protest about Tibet. I think it’s a little weird that that may be the only issue they protest about, but I don’t use that to attack them and say they are wrong. The situation in Tibet is evil and needs world attention. The situation in Saudi Arabia is wrong and needs attention. The situation in the West Bank and Gaza is wrong and deserves even more action by activists in the US since the US is the one propping up the Israeli state.
us Saudi Arabia but our unwillingness to boycott oil from their. And these constant statements about ISrael being the most racist country... blah blah.... are just hyperbole. The whole Arab world would get the grand prize for intollerance and promoting hatred with Sept 11th being the finished result of decades of hate geared to all things and people non-arab or muslim.
up Saudi Arabia but our unwillingness to boycott oil from their. And these constant statements about ISrael being the most racist country... blah blah.... are just hyperbole. The whole Arab world would get the grand prize for intollerance and promoting hatred with Sept 11th being the finished result of decades of hate geared to all things and people non-arab or muslim.
"Also, the memory of the holocaust not only signifies triumphing social justice but an end to appeasement in the face of the disregard of the preciousness of human life. Could social justice have prevented hitler and the nationalism of WWII-era germany? Not likely!! Yet the reason for the rise of monsters like hitler is appeasement. Britain's Lord Halifax and Neville Chamberlain tried to make deals with Hitler, and were burned in the end. They ALLOWED Hitler to take poland and Czechoslovakia. They ALLOWED him to rise to power. If your ancestors who were killed in the holocaust were alive today and living in Israel would they allow themselves to be victim to the same appeasement which caused the Holocaust?
Israel is the aggressor. Sharon is the person who has commited the closest thing to genocide when he allowed between 1000-2000 refugees get raped and murdered in a refugee camp in Lebanon. The Israeli investigation said he was "indirectly responsible" This act of genocide forced the former defense minister to resign, and disappear from politics until the mid ninetees. If anyone is being appeased it is israel, the more powerful nation econmically and militarily not Palestine which has not had sovereignty in years. Who would they be appeasing?
Also i would like to thank the "Jewish American" who has been posting here, it should serve as a reminder to certain people like "X" that some Jews are not Zionists, and that their arguements on how being antizionist is being anti semetic are proven by this to be bullshit. They are not the same.
Israel is the aggressor. Sharon is the person who has commited the closest thing to genocide when he allowed between 1000-2000 refugees get raped and murdered in a refugee camp in Lebanon. The Israeli investigation said he was "indirectly responsible" This act of genocide forced the former defense minister to resign, and disappear from politics until the mid ninetees. If anyone is being appeased it is israel, the more powerful nation econmically and militarily not Palestine which has not had sovereignty in years. Who would they be appeasing?
Also i would like to thank the "Jewish American" who has been posting here, it should serve as a reminder to certain people like "X" that some Jews are not Zionists, and that their arguements on how being antizionist is being anti semetic are proven by this to be bullshit. They are not the same.
Obviously you mistook my post for someone elses OR more likely you don't read posts before responding to them.
I do not believe that being anti-zionist is necessarily anti-semetic any more then being against Nation Of Islam means you hate Afican Americans, or that being against Arab Nationalism means you hate Arabs...
I have explained this as simply as possible, in a way even a six year old could understand (which you probably are).
Still Mr T it strickes me a funny that when people protest comments which are clearly hateful and racist such as "Hitler should have killed you all". Protesting these groups that do employ anti-Jewish rhetoric (and yes many Pro-Pal demonstrations have... more examples can be forthcoming if you need them) they are labeled "zionist". This is the ultimate hypocrasy. People protesting hate crimes and speech against Jews aren't "pro-zionist" or "anti-Palestinian" any more than people protesting hate crimes/speech against Arabs or Muslims are abetting terrorists or terrorist symphathizers. Can you understand that or do I need to write you a children's picture book so you can understand it?? Holy shit you are dense.
I do not believe that being anti-zionist is necessarily anti-semetic any more then being against Nation Of Islam means you hate Afican Americans, or that being against Arab Nationalism means you hate Arabs...
I have explained this as simply as possible, in a way even a six year old could understand (which you probably are).
Still Mr T it strickes me a funny that when people protest comments which are clearly hateful and racist such as "Hitler should have killed you all". Protesting these groups that do employ anti-Jewish rhetoric (and yes many Pro-Pal demonstrations have... more examples can be forthcoming if you need them) they are labeled "zionist". This is the ultimate hypocrasy. People protesting hate crimes and speech against Jews aren't "pro-zionist" or "anti-Palestinian" any more than people protesting hate crimes/speech against Arabs or Muslims are abetting terrorists or terrorist symphathizers. Can you understand that or do I need to write you a children's picture book so you can understand it?? Holy shit you are dense.
This person Z has on several different occasions when people are saying being anti Zionist is not the same as being anti semetic, He/she repsonds by saying "90% of Jews are Zionist" which equates all Jews with Zionism, Zionism with Israel, Israel with AntiSemetism which brings you to a very dangerous state. It is complete Orwellian newspeak where you cannot even criticize the politics of the nation without coming under attack from people calling you anti semetic. Ariel Sharon played this card, which worked along with an assination, when the international court was hearing pleas of Arabs who wanted to put him up for trial on crimes against humanity in a Lebanon refugee camp where between 1 and 2 thousand people were murdered by Christian Facists as the Israeli army under the command of the defense minister Ariel Sharon lit the sky with flares and sealed off all the exits. This is the main reason why there are israelis = nazis slogans in virtually every protest. I never put forth that view but the Israeli governmetn did find him "indirectly responsible" and he was forced to resign and disappeared from politics for about twelve years. This massacre did happen but of course gets relatively no press in the US. It does elsewhere. That is why we practically stand alone with Israel. As we live in a country that hides this information from us as well as equating anti-zionism and anti-israeli expansionism as being anti semtetic. nobody can criticize them without having this pulled on them, not even when it comes to genocide.
"He/she repsonds by saying '90% of Jews are Zionist' which equates all Jews with Zionism..."
Just a reminder: ninety doesn't equal one hundred, and any argument based on assuming it _does_ goes splat.
@%<
Just a reminder: ninety doesn't equal one hundred, and any argument based on assuming it _does_ goes splat.
@%<
The biggest Jewish rally in Israel ever drew 100 000 participants. Who were they? Memebers of the Satmar sect come to hear their favorite Rabbi tell them how Zionism is a crime against the Jewish religion, in direct violation of the Torah, and how Zionists dismantled a deportation deal with the Nazis in WW2 so that the Holocaust would justify their claims for a racial state. This picture shows some Neturyei Karta Rabbis attending the Durban Conference on Racism .. you know, the anti-semitic one? That 90% of Jews support Zionism is not only speculative .. it is a complete lie.
BS, there are not anywhere near 100,000 of these "rabbis". There are less than 50 in the USA, and a total of ZERO in Israel
Orthodox Jews Mass Protest Against the State of Israel
12 February 2002
Estimated 20,000 Orthodox Jews demonstrated on Tuesday, February 12, 2002, in front of the Israeli Consulate in New York City, organized the the Central Rabbinical Congress of USA and Canada, to voice their opposition to the existence of the state of Israel, their suppression of religion and brutal treatment of religious people.
12 February 2002
Estimated 20,000 Orthodox Jews demonstrated on Tuesday, February 12, 2002, in front of the Israeli Consulate in New York City, organized the the Central Rabbinical Congress of USA and Canada, to voice their opposition to the existence of the state of Israel, their suppression of religion and brutal treatment of religious people.
For more information:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/protests...
we are giving it to Mexico, it's called NAFTA and $20 billion in remittances every year.
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