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Photo-Police attack children in Hunters Point on MLK day
On the evening of Martin Luthor King day, a group of San Francisco police, without provocation, violently attacked a group of children in front of their house and in front of their parents on Kiska Road in the Hunters Point district of San Francisco.
Jerome Brown, 14, (photo) was the most badly beaten of all the children. His crime: asking the police to “take the guns off my li’l cousin.” This picture was taken outside the Bayview Police Station, where he was held for over an hour while his father waited to take him to the hospital. His mouth needed stitches inside and out, he’d suffered a concussion, couldn’t stand alone and for a while didn’t know who he was.
Excerpt from the statement by Tenisha Bishop published in the SF Bay View newspaper of Feb 6 2002:
Jerome Brown, 14, was in the gathering crowd. He was telling the police to take the guns off his “li'l cousin.” Parents, neighbors, passersby and other kids were pleading for the police to put the guns down as well. Jerome, who didn't get an answer or an explanation, asked again. Suddenly, one of the officers shouted out, “Take him down.” I saw with my own eyes eight white officers come over and slam Jerome's body to the ground. One of them had come up behind him and pushed his head. He went down head first, with his feet flying in the air. I heard the knock when his head and jaw hit the concrete. For at least five minutes, one officer pinned Jerome down with his knee between Jerome's jaw and neck, grinding the boy's face into the pavement. Janell's stepfather, Kevin Hall, told the police that Jerome was just a kid and they had no right do him the way they did. So another force of police rushed Kevin without saying anything. The police beat him while forcing him into the police car. Jerome was lying on the ground in a pool of blood. His eyes looked glassy, and it didn't look like he was breathing. As I stared at him, his eyes did not blink one time. I thought Jerome was dead. I then grabbed my son and walked across the street. Looking at Jerome, my eyes started to water because he looked lifeless. My son was crying because of the police, the guns, all the cop cars, Jerome on the ground bleeding with the police all over his head, neck, back, knees, and ankles, while the other four kids were on the ground with guns pointed at their heads.
Full story at http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/02/116106.php
From: Samantha Liapes <sam@. ellabakercenter.org>
MEETING ABOUT SFPD BEATING OF CHILDREN IN HUNTERS POINT
COMMUNITY FORUM WILL ADDRESS RECENT SFPD BEATING OF HUNTERS POINT CHILDREN
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 21ST 6:00PM 54 MINT ST.
(alley st. between market and mission, 5th and 6th. in downtown SF)
call or email with questions: sam@. ellabakercenter.org 415-951-4844x224
"In a show of solidarity, Idriss' mother has made the call to use the upcoming 'Justice for Idriss' community forum to talk about the recent Hunters Point incident. The parents of the 4 children (ages 12 and 13) brutalized by SFPD officers will lead a conversation about how the community can take action in response to this horrible abuse."
Excerpt from the statement by Tenisha Bishop published in the SF Bay View newspaper of Feb 6 2002:
Jerome Brown, 14, was in the gathering crowd. He was telling the police to take the guns off his “li'l cousin.” Parents, neighbors, passersby and other kids were pleading for the police to put the guns down as well. Jerome, who didn't get an answer or an explanation, asked again. Suddenly, one of the officers shouted out, “Take him down.” I saw with my own eyes eight white officers come over and slam Jerome's body to the ground. One of them had come up behind him and pushed his head. He went down head first, with his feet flying in the air. I heard the knock when his head and jaw hit the concrete. For at least five minutes, one officer pinned Jerome down with his knee between Jerome's jaw and neck, grinding the boy's face into the pavement. Janell's stepfather, Kevin Hall, told the police that Jerome was just a kid and they had no right do him the way they did. So another force of police rushed Kevin without saying anything. The police beat him while forcing him into the police car. Jerome was lying on the ground in a pool of blood. His eyes looked glassy, and it didn't look like he was breathing. As I stared at him, his eyes did not blink one time. I thought Jerome was dead. I then grabbed my son and walked across the street. Looking at Jerome, my eyes started to water because he looked lifeless. My son was crying because of the police, the guns, all the cop cars, Jerome on the ground bleeding with the police all over his head, neck, back, knees, and ankles, while the other four kids were on the ground with guns pointed at their heads.
Full story at http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/02/116106.php
From: Samantha Liapes <sam@. ellabakercenter.org>
MEETING ABOUT SFPD BEATING OF CHILDREN IN HUNTERS POINT
COMMUNITY FORUM WILL ADDRESS RECENT SFPD BEATING OF HUNTERS POINT CHILDREN
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 21ST 6:00PM 54 MINT ST.
(alley st. between market and mission, 5th and 6th. in downtown SF)
call or email with questions: sam@. ellabakercenter.org 415-951-4844x224
"In a show of solidarity, Idriss' mother has made the call to use the upcoming 'Justice for Idriss' community forum to talk about the recent Hunters Point incident. The parents of the 4 children (ages 12 and 13) brutalized by SFPD officers will lead a conversation about how the community can take action in response to this horrible abuse."
For more information:
http://www.sfbayview.com
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SHUT THE SFPD DOWN AS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION!!!!!
they kick you on the ground cops goin down
follow the reaper when shove their corpses in the ground
I have some questions regarding the wisdom of the parents. What type of parents allow their 12, 13, and two 14 year old children to sit in a car and listen to music at midnight? especially, as Susie McAllister's account informs us, in a "gang area"? Even if the next day was MLK Day with no school, this was not wise. Had this police action not even happened, we're talking about leaving young teens in a car at midnight where any thug could have driven up or walked up and potentially caused them harm. At midnight, I want my kids safe at home. Hell, I want them safe at home at midnight in a "good" neighborhood.
Misuse of Police power is inexcusible. However, I find the parents conduct regarding the welfare of their children equally inexcusible.
I must disagree that the writer was "compar(ing) the parents behavior with that of the police." I understood the writer to say he found them both to be "inexcusible", in the same manner that one might find 'murder' and ' theft' to be inexcusible crimes, yet they are not comparible.
Calling others "asshole" and the like do nothing to add to the dialogue on any topic. I've noticed there are others on this board who do the same thing, and unfortunately it can't be kept off. If you go back and read though, it does nothing to enhance the dialogue and generally degrates the post altogether. Disagreement is natural. Name calling only causes hard feelings. And for no reason.
I think Kiko offers a very valid observation. Many commenters on this board have a hard time recognizing that issues are complex and that often more than one person or group can be wrong. Here Anon, (in a rude, unreasoned and abusive way) sees ONLY the police as wrong. Others see only Isreal or only Palestine. This blindness is a bit childish and detracts from the core argument.
Recognizing that parents and family have a role in behavior and in their children doesn't diminish any culpability the police may have.
Does Anon believe the solution to midnight street problems is 100% in the hands of police and the government?
Let's just say the parents behavior was questionable.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with parents allowing their children (12-year-old and teenagers here, not 8-year-olds) to stay up to midnight and to allow them to, in this case, choose to listen to music together in a car outside. What, parents should keep 13-year-olds under midnight curfew every day? My parents did try to do this to me, and I ended up just sneaking out and staying out later than I otherwise would have. I certainly resented that kind of authoritarian control, and ten years later I haven't changed my mind.
Given the story as told in the Bayview, I would hold the police completely 100% at fault. Now, in another thread one person said they "knew for a fact" that the kids had a gun. This would seem to contradict this story. I'd like to know if this is true at all. Were any of the kids charged with weapons possession? Is there anything to back up that claim?
I dont give a fuck if these kids were at the 24-hour 7-11 10 blocks away from their home. They deserve to be treated with respect and have their civil rights.
These liberal whiners on here complaining about being outside at midnight, get a fucking grip and get back in touch with reality, will you???
You know there is a frequent poster to SF Indymedia who talks quite a bit about making this site accessible and meaningful to "working class" people. Unfortunately his rude behavior - his classically male, aggressive, know-it-all attitude and his cursing - alienate many people, including some that might be considered working class. Which is intriguing given that he's railed against the tendency of, for example, the anarcho-punk subculture to seal itself off and alienate itself from this "working class".
I agree that the other posters' viewpoints make no sense. Some of them have the viewpoint that is the equivalent of "well, her behavior of wearing a mini-skirt at that hour is 'equally inexcusible' to the actions of the rapist".
Just because it is midnight does not give the police the right to harass anyone. It certainly does not give them the right to beat up an angry onlooker so badly that he cannot remember who he is. Even if the onlooker is a young black male.
Two things stand out.
The first is that you seem very condescending towards blacks and poor
people. Why do you think there should have different standards for black
and white parents? Do you expect black parents to be less caring or worse
parent and therefore we should hold them to lower?" What a load of baloney!
Parents are parents.
Which leads to my second observation. I don't think you have children. If
you plan on getting some, I suggest you mature a bit first. Your eagerness
to curse and call names rather than discuss is a good indication of your
maturity level. I suggest you try talking to people and addressing issues
rather than resorting to nasty personal attacks. If you ever do have
children you may begin to understand why its not such a good idea to have 12
year olds at 7-11s after midnight ten blocks from home.
OK, "bad neighborhoods" or not easy places to raise kids and they don't'
have a lot of options. But that is all the more reason to pay close
attention to them. Should police harass children? No, of course not. Do
they? Yes, of course they do. Can this harassment wreck a person's chances
to advance? Yes. Sadly, it's in these neighborhoods that it's most
important to be a good parent.
To go to your rather strange 7-11 story. Yeah, the world should be safe
enough for children to go to a 7-11 in a big city far from home at night but
any parent who lets their 12 year do so is flat out wrong. AND any
policeman who harasses them is also wrong.
It's a bad situation that should be confronted and stopped but I don't plan
on using my children that way. I do all I can to keep them away from
trouble. Am I a perfect parent? No. Is anyone perfect? Probably not.
Should we try to be perfect though? When it comes to ones children,
absolutely!
I'd say come back and comment again when you have children and know what you
are talking about but I'm afraid to wish your parenthood on any child right
now.
Reply Reply All Forward Delete Put in Folder...InboxSent MessagesDraftsTrash Can Previous Next | Close
Fine, you want a thread with twenty people writing "yes, the police are bad." then fine. I think everyone on this net has said that.
You obviously don't want, or can't handle, a more detailed discussion. There are more than one factor here. This is not a "zero sum" game where commenting on the parents (and why do YOU single them as Black parents. YOU are the only one to bring that up.) detracts from the police fault.
The police appear to be entirely at fault (that's that gun thing) but the parents are also partially at fault. As I said, its not a zero sum.
Do you believe that the WTC was ENTIRELY the fault of the US with absolutely no fault or condemnation on the actual terrorists or vice versa or do you believe that in many cases there is another fautlt to go around.
Simplistic views on subjects rarely lead to meaningful answers.
The issue here is that some young kids got hurt in a bad neighborhood. Do you think that simply stopping police brutality will instantly make the neighborhood safe for children to stay out in cars to all hours and that that action in any case is acceptable for kids?
And stop making a race issue of the parents. This part is a parenting issue, not a race issue -- unless YOU think black parents tend to be different than white or yellow parents.
Your curse statement was real cute, but still childish and a bit silly.
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/02/116533.php
At that link you can read about Hunters Point.
"The issue here is that some young kids got hurt in a bad neighborhood "
Why did you assume it was a bad neighborhood?
I haven't seen anyone write that the SFPD were in the right, but parents who let their 12, 13 and 14 year old kids hang out on the streets, especially in what resident Susie McCallister did call a 'gang' neighborhood needs to have their head examined.
Nikos, here's the quote bud:
Susie McAllister's account:
On Jan. 21, my neighbor Tenisha called me outside. I was told that my daughter was on the ground with a gun to her head. At first I thought it had something to do with a gang because of the area we live in.
Of course, in another post regarding this, the neighborhood is Mayberry RFD:
Facts about our village
by Tenisha Bishop
There is no gun violence.
There is no drug activity on the 700 block of Kirkwood between Earl and Dormitory.
The tenants in the building of 750 Kirkwood cater to the needs of the children in our closely-knit village.
Children flock to 750 Kirkwood from all parts of Bayview, including those from Oakdale, Westpoint, Double Rock, Northridge, Harbor Road, Mariner’s Village, Shoreview etc.
Kids of any age can be fed by any tenant in 750 Kirkwood.
Any child who needs help with schoolwork or problems at home can come ask anyone for help.
Adults and kids set goals and are very respectful of one another.
Our doors stay open when kids are locked out
Kids volunteer to help with groceries and moving furniture.
The only safe place kids can come to play without ducking for cover or being pressured to do drugs is in front of 750 Kirkwood.
We are all family-oriented.
We as a village stick together during the good and bad times.
We care and respect each other’s feelings.
We have all prayed together; therefore, we are going to stay together.
We as parents and neighbors are willing to lend a ear or a dollar to help in time of need.
There is no constant violent activity on the block.
Most kids have above average intelligence and have outstanding attendance in school.
Everyone has their own special talent to share with others.
The kids who play in front have no criminal records.
We all believe in Jesus!
I guess the gangs have red-lined this area as a voilence-free zone. How nice of them.
Is anyone here NOT familiar with the Hunter's Point neighborhood? Has anyone here figured out that's it's not a wise idea to go there with $100 bills hanging out your pockets?
anarcho, if your parents cursed a lot, sorry to hear that. You deserved better.
The only ones making a race issue out of this seems to be those who dislike the painful discovery that parents can play a positve role in their childrens lives.
Gang neighborbood? Those kids got beat because it seems to apparently be a police neighborhood. Non government gangs have nothing to do with this incident, this is all about the thugs in blue.
Parents have absolutely no responsiblity for their children's safety or welfare. This should be left entirely up to the State, certainly not in the least with their parents.
Parents have absolutely no need to question children about what is taught in school or day care. Parents should not review what they watch on television or who they chat with on line. I know that I feel no resposnibility to explain news to them - televison can do that for me - and why should I encourage them to read. That's the State's job.
Parents should not question where the children go, or who they play with. The State will keep them all safe.
Only a liberal would be concerned about a 14 year (no license) sitting in a car with keys in the ignition at midnight. Right thinking people know that a parent should not have any say in keeping car keys away from children. Or guns. Or drugs. Children are people and can make decisions like that. And anyway, that's the State's responsibilty.
Let's face it, parents have more important things to do with their time and they do pay taxes after all so the police should have total and complete responsiblity for their welfare. I mean, don't you trust the police to take care of everthing. anarcho and Nikos are right in thinking that if the police did not beat the children up, nothing bad would ever happen to them. (I haven't quite reconciled the thinking that, in a situation where police (blue gangs) seem to run wild, parents should not have to protect their children from the police but anarcho and Nikos don't see any parential need here, so they must be right.)
Yeah, you two are correct. Leaving minor kids alone in a car with keys in the ignition at midnight in Hunter's Point is a good parental role model.
I would like you to find where we said that. What is with all the trolls lately?
If I punch you, would it be ridiculous to say your parents should not have left your face near my fist? If a cop hits a kid it it is equally ridiculous to stigmatize the parents for letting the kids out in the first place. If anyone should be stigmatized it should be the cops.
Didn't realize we were trolls and that parenting is a right wing issue. Do you really consider parenting an issue at odds to what indy media stands for? Are family values something that belongs only to Bush and Falwell? I don't think so. I would hope even the most extreme anarchist would see parenting as a role.
In my case I just don't fully trust the government to take care of my family as you seem to.
This would have never happened if these were white children sitting in a BMW in front of a house on Seacliff.
Is it just me, or does the SFPD proactively recruit fat beady-eyed white simpletons to be cops?
And where, oh where, was the corporate media? CBS had a camera at the protest today, but they felt that the following stories were more newsworthy than bigoted white cops terrorizing, brutally beating, and molesting innocent black chldren:
1) New software helps you see how you'll look 20 years from now!!!!!
2) The Grammys!!!!!!!! (this earth-shattering story aired immediately following the live broadcast of the Grammys)
3) Sharks having problems!!!!!!!!!
FUCK THE PIGS!!! FUCK THE RACIST CORPORATE MEDIA!!!!
I think that this whole situation is awful and that the cops are at fault… obviously. I do question what in the world the kids were doing outside, but I do not argue that they had a right to be there. I don’t think anybody is really arguing on that point.
Getting rid of the police department makes absolutely no sense. Disposing of all cops makes no sense, push for more regulation of cops and their behavior. I might even recommend voting some new people into office who might better regulate the PD.
The PD is not a terrorist organization and should not and will never be treated as such. To say anything against the PD, especially with violent tones, is prejudice and should not be condoned by any means. That is just as bad as the cops knocking on your door and telling you they want to help you “follow the reaper when shove their corpses in the ground”.
Cops beat up children of all colors, at all times of day, this is nothing new. I am also unclear about the race issues of this whole story. It seems to me that only one officer ever made a racist comment. The rest of the officers were being overly violent, but who is to say it was because they were racist? Perhaps they hated children, or maybe they all just had divorces and were generally in a foul mood. I am just unclear as to why everyone seems to be assuming that every police officer involved, even though they came in separate vehicles, seemed to be racist. Maybe, after work, all the police officers get together to have a cold one a do some kkk rituals…. As stated before me, there may be more to their side of the story as well. I don’t think that is okay do be prejudice (or racist by the looks of some of the posts I’ve been reading) towards ANYONE, including the ‘bad guys’.
Prove that every cop involved is racist before it is sent across for the nation to blindly read and accept. Right now, until someone shows me the evidence I looked over, I have only found one of the cops to be guilty of racism and all of the cops to be guilty of excessive force.
Rebuttals are always welcome, but keep it civil and keep it logical.
If, as the SF Bayview editorial suggests, the SFPD is engaging in violent attacks on civilians in Hunter's Point in order to achieve a political objective (gentrification) then the SFPD would, indeed, be a terrorist organization.
"Getting rid of the police department makes absolutely no sense." No, getting rid of the police sounds like a wonderful idea, but I think it would need to be simultaneous with myriad cultural, political, social, and economic changes. In my lifetime, I hope. In the meantime, accountability of the police as a whole and individual police officers is key.
"To say anything against the PD ... is prejudice." No it isn't; it's called criticism and is perfectly valid and in fact necessary if we are to improve the situation. Maybe later I will post a quote from Jello Biafra where he discusses the corruption of the SFPD. You could say that treating all police officers as the same stereotype is prejudiced (e.g. "all cops are authoritarian assholes with bad mustaches"). But nevertheless we can discuss some generalities and also discuss the PD as an institution, as I do below.
"Cops beat up children of all colors, at all times of day, this is nothing new." I don't know how many kids get beat up in Pacific Heights. Pac Heights is a rich, white neighborhood in the northwest corner of SF; Hunter's Point is a poorer, black neighborhood in the southeast corner. I think a general pattern of abuse of black people by the police means that the police AS AN INSTITUTION is racist. Whether individual cops are may be unclear, but they are participating in institutionalized bigotry and violence.
We need to challenge this by holding the department and individual officers accountable. I'm pissed that the officers involved were transferred to other precincts. They need to be at the very least suspended until the investigation completes, and then hopefully indicted for assault.
http://www.soaw.org/
Shamefully, your comments and your willingness to make them without checking the facts first have distracted us from the real violence.
Those of us here worked against brutality and those of us who've worked against sexual assault have struggled for decades against society's tendency to blame the victim. Often those who blame the victim also accept the idea that parents own their children or that men own their female partners. Blaming the victim then extends to blaming the victim's "owner". Doing so both reinforces the right of men and adults to absolute power and undermines any accountability for those who brutalize and assault.
I'm saying all of this because you three have a very good reason to reexamine your response. That reason is that you assumed things, apparently subconsciously, that weren't even true. The youth who were assaulted were in front of their homes, with their parents' permission and awareness, using the ignition key to play music on the radio. See Tenisha's account below.
Blaming the victim is something we are all trained to do; it makes us see things that aren't there, jump to conclusions, and avoid doing the victims the respect of hearing them out.
I hope you each take the time to reexamine your thoughts and your reactions to this horrible incident of violence. I hope we all come away better able to support people who are brutalized and assaulted.
Carwil James
From Tenisha Bishop's account:
I told my son to get in the back seat of my car and lie down across the floor. I figured if the police tried to shoot us, my son would be protected by me because I was blocking the rear door with my body. I was still screaming for my neighbor, Inell Manuel, to come outside.
By this time, her daughter, Janell Harris, who is only 12, was out of the car on her knees with her hands on her head. Then her friend, Alema Hoskins, 13, was ordered to do the same. I screamed across the street and told the other kids to go and get my neighbor, Sue McAllister, Alema’s mother.
Later I learned that four neighbor children, ages 12 to 14, had been sitting in the car listening to music. Because it was a holiday — Martin Luther King Day — they had been allowed to stay up late. They are all good kids and excellent students.
...
By this time, the parents of Janell and Alema had come outside.
...
As I was crossing the street, Sue and Inell were asking the police if they could cross the street and be with their kids. The police told them that if they crossed the street they would get shot. This brought on an argument between the police and the parents.
The parents were in tears looking at their babies screaming and crying from across the street. The parents could not even console or embrace or even come to the same side of the street as their kids.
all i know is what i've read in the above cited articles and in the ensuing conversation -- which, though spirited -- is at least moving forward.
so, all i can point out is what i know from personal experience about cops and violence and the sort.
often times, in this country, we use the police to settle personal and "domestic" (family) disputes. i've been present at many such interventions. when we as a society entrust the police to settle arguments and problems that arise from people not getting along, we should also take responsibility for ourselves and take an active role in shaping the policies that the police use to resolve these semi-criminal disputes ("she hit me, he hit me first, he's kicking me out of my house, those kids beat up my son," etc.)
in the same way that often times the police and other enforcers of our laws (judges, district attorneys, the media!) have a prejudice, a preformed opinion about youthful indiscretion as criminal predisposition (the so-called criminilization of youth), the activists i've met are often predisposed and prejudiced towards the police -- assuming that all cops are racist and all police misbehavior is a result of racism rather than other, easier to resolve forms of ignorance, poor training or simply, *bad* laws.
police misbehavior is very diverse, from Ramparts (LA) to Abner Louima (NYC). let's not make the mistake of overlooking how many things are wrong with police policies by focusing *exclusively* on race and how it plays into bad policing. yes, that's an important factor and police should be aware that many minorities distrust them and they should be prepared to go the extra mile to prove that they mean well (or should receive therapy on the job so they never stop meaning well, and if they don't mean well, they should be screened for such attitudes and FIRED.) but there's more to police misconduct than just racism.
unfortunately, nothing i read in the above cited article has explained to me what the police were doing on the scene in the first place, or what the kid with the gun (?) did, or, most importantly, WHO -- if anyone -- called the police on those then badly mistreated, *illegally* beaten kids. (in my experience, the police will turn a blind eye on a lot of technically illegal shit if no one calls them about it -- but the moment someone calls, the bureacratic machinery is set in motion and *something* has to happen, perhaps a bad thing in this case).
it seems to me, ignorant as i am, that what went wrong here has a lot more to do with how we expect the police to resolve "complaints" and how we deal or don't deal with guns and how guns complicate every incident.
in another post on this site (an article? an opinion?) someone said that a neighbor had called the police and told them the child had a gun. if that is true, all the police know coming into this situation is that a neighbor has called for them and that someone has a gun. this does not justify *anything* but it might explain why they pulled out their guns.
if you don't want the police to have guns (i sort of don't), you also have to insist that NO ONE have guns. otherwise, trust me, people who don't give a fuck about anyone (even themselves) will get guns and they'll use them even more often than they do already. this includes young kids trapped in gangs and white supermacists and homophobes and militiamen and crackheads and disgruntled employees and crazy ex-husbands and all that shit!
again, let me restate my opening admission: i am ignorant of much of the details of this case. so, i invite anyone better informed about them to please, patiently, teach me about it. remember, a good teacher is someone who doesn't belittle their students. so, please don't make fun of me for not knowing "the real deal" in this case. i am interested in learning more and if you are willing to teach, we may all learn a great deal from this conversation.
thank you and be well.
I disagree with your definition of terrorism, so we will never get any where with that discussion. I’m more with ‘violence (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands <insurrection and revolutionary terrorism>’.
I was unaware that the officers were transferred. However, I still stand firm that it is prejudice to make generalizations of any kind about any body. That is a textbook definition (def: a “preconceived judgment or opinion”), whether or not you believe it is justified makes no difference. I could say something like, ‘all black people like fried chicken’ or ‘white people can’t dance’, but all of these comments are prejudice. These examples happen to be racist, but I could make the same sort of examples having to do with money, class, social status, etcetera. I find this to be a moral grievance. I do not expect anyone to not be racist at all, but I do like to attempt to make people aware of what they are saying, out loud, in a public forum. P.S. That comment was mainly directed at the people suggesting that all pigs should die.
All,
England seems to have done an amazing job with guns. They’re illegal. I know the army can have them, but I think that is about it. Also, their violent crime rate is REALLY low. Funny coincidence….
Do you have a definition that does not arbitrarily cut off state violence? If so, feel free to put it forth.
the only time i hear about bad neighborhoods is when some mayor or city consel wants to "clean it up", by moving out all the poor people, and more in rich condos or chain stores.
2. "12 year olds out at midnight???" they are not my kids, they are not your kids. the kids was attacking old people or any other nasty little act. so we should just stay out of that completey, its NON OF OUR BUSINESS.
the simple fact is they was attack for no reason. did they have a gun? does it matter? having a gun is not reason enough to be attack, no where has it said that they did anything with that gun.
don't let yourself get caught up in non-issues.
Stan, in common US English a 'Bad Neighborhood' is one an average person would not feel safe walking around at night. Your liberal platitudes sound nice but totally skirt the point.
Regarding the children. I reread all the posts and didn't find a single one that pointed the finger at the children. I also didn't find a single one that didn't point the finger directly at the police.
However, I found quite a few that stated a belief that a parent has a role in raising children and keeping them safe. I was surprised at the number of posts that did not belief this - that in fact seemed to oppose it.
If a little girl gets in a car with a stranger and is brutalized, well there is nothing the victim is at fault with - nothing at all and the victim should never be blamed. However, don't you think parents should teach their children not to take rides from strangers?
This is not a big issue here but I'm surprised at how many people are getting so upset at the suggestion.
My view on this issue is "Ok, maybe the parents should have supervised better but lets get on to the real issue here -- the police. Let's not get sidetracked."
What are you suggesting, that the parents teach the kids to stay away from their own police-infested neighborhoods? Or that it's safer to stay in doors and watch TV rather than risk life and limb outside where the police don't need a warrant? I'm sure most kids could use more supervision these days, what with folks working such long hours to pay the rent. But it sounds like you'd prefer the police to supervise - by whatever means necessary - our 'bad neighborhoods'.
What we need is citizen supervision of the police. City Hall should take immediate steps to help us create safe communities -- safe from all gangster criminal elements, including the people who bought and sold today's election (assuming this one is no different).
Just the other night, in Oakland, I was stopped, interrogated, handcuffed, searched and briefly detained by 3 police officers for the crime of walking down the sidewalk alone after midnight, aka 'looking suspicious'. They told me there had been a outbreak of burglaries in the neighborhood and that my courier bag could be used to carry burglary tools. After searching my bag, running a record check, and chastizing me for being on the dangerous streets at night, they eventually let me go. But I can imagine it would have been a lot worse if the police already had something against me, or my entire neighborhood. Luckily they decided I just wasn't worth the trouble.
My personal experience and these reports of police attacks suggest that bay area cops are 'out of control' -- in certain neighborhoods. Or perhaps they're doing exactly as they've been ordered. Either way we need effective civilian oversight to protect ourselves and our loved ones from continuing abuse by the local shadow government, and its police forces.
Someday i hope HP parents will be responsible - for the police.
I'm not taking any blame away from the police, but others must be accountable. Police are people, and have fears just like you and I. They were in a situation where something was going on, surrounded by people that don't like the police, and obviously some of the people (other than the police) had guns. I'm sure they over-reacted to what they considered to be a threatening situation.
This happens too much, and is a disgrace. But people have to not get themselves into situations where that can happend. Kid's shouldn't be hanging out in public past midnight carrying guns. If they are, they put themselves, and others, at risk.
The cops are to blame, but in many cases, the victims are equally at fault. The fact is that if the police did not fear for their lives when on the job they would be less likely to overreact.
Anyway, I was amazed reading this. Do these people not realize why the police over reacted? For some reason, the police believed something may have been going down. Maybe something had been reported. Obviously, they were in the area looking for something or someone.
They asked the kids to get out of the car. Instead of letting the police do their job. All these people came out and started yelling at them. Don't they realize this adds to the situation? Then, instead of lying down and doing what the police asked, the kid is standing up pleading with the police officer.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe police just come up and start shooting people. Maybe I'm naive. But this is what should have happened:
When the police told the kids to get out of the car, everyone else should have shut the fuck up and stayed away. Then the kids should have gotten out of the car and laid on the ground. Shortly thereafter, the policy would have been able to ascertain that nothing illegal was happing (if that was the case) and they probably would have just told the kids to go home.
There are many cases of bad cops doing bad things. But most instances like this happen because people don't cooperate with the police and do as they're told. Instead, they aggrevate the situation by yelling at or ignoring the instructions of the officers.
the reason i bring this up is i grew up a night owl. i find it hard to get up before 2pm. on the other hand at 2 am i am completey awake and out and about. my point is it shouldn't matter what time of the day it is, that should have no effect on the way the police handle the situration. i should be treated no differently from people who are up in the daytime, and neither should these kids.
Put your hands away from the keyboard and step away from the computer. Get on the ground with your hands on your head and a Troll Cop will be there to cuff you shortly
The only people who are getting what they deserve are the abusive and racist pigs who have already been transferred out of the neighborhood, and are on their way to being transferred to the unemployment line. You don't send a bunch of white cops into a neighborhood, have them beat up some kids, and then have them make a bunch of racist comments to everyone standing around. These cops are about as stupid as they come. And they deserve what they are going to get, which is getting FIRED. What we need are a few more cop careers ruined. What you pigs and pig supporters dont understand is that because you have a badge & a gun, you dont call the shots. WE call the shots. WE pay your salaries, WE allow you to patrol our neighborhoods, and if you fuck up, WE get rid of you. See that cocky smile on that pig's face in the other pictures? Lets see how funny it is when that pig is working at McDonalds.
If nobody cares, why dont you post your name and badge number? Too scared?
Yes there is proof, go to the Police Station and get a copy of the report. Since you probably dont believe the report, look at the CAD number, go to police communications and request a copy of the CAD, Since you probably still wont believe it, request an audio copy of the actuall police broadcast. Since you still believe it is a conspiracy, ask the people at OCC and Bay Area Police Watch, they will also tell you it is true but irrelevant (LOL). If you still don't believe it then there is no point in any further discussion, cause I did all I can.
Besides, would it change your opinion anyway?, I'm sure you will continue to believe the Police are always wrong even when the hard facts are laid before you.
Wow this must be the elite unit you are talking! Elite pencil pushers sounds more like. Maybe I'll go down there and tell them to file those reports a little faster!! ahahahahaha.
One step closer to unemployment. all the other cops must be *real* jealous. excuse me while i laugh some more... ahahahahaha
And yes, people of all colors, ages, and sexs, are able to carry guns/knives and kill people.
The operative word here is "common sense". I regret to inform you, John Q. Public, that word does not apply on this site. There are people reading this right now who believe I have worded this message in a precise manner such that they are now more susceptible to mind control by the enemy. From now on, you need to link every word you say to at least five or more sources, unless of course you are saying things with which they agree, in which case you can source yourself.
By the way, I noticed you used 97 words in your message, are you mocking me? After further decoding your message I see you printed my name and address...THIS IS JOHN Q PUBLIC SPEAKING...............
LOL, you are very right.
FUCK THEM, IF A COP DIES, SO MUCH THE BETTER!!!
MAY ALL COPS GO TO HELL AND SUCK LUCIFER'S COCK!!!!
It's not God you prey for when your getting your ass kicked and robbed, it's the POLICE...
the situation described in this post, as the tendency of even liberal apologists to blame the victim, should be abhorrent to anyone. this is another attempt to ehnically cleanse san francisco. the parents of these kids and the kids themselves deserve justice.
if anyone knows of any upcoming actions or organizing sourrounding this situation, please email me.
The last time I got my ass kicked and robbed, it was BY the police.
You know the police dont even carry guns in the UK? But is that because we have better police or because black people make up less than 6% of the population.
i had to send this message to show my support to a fellow Jerome.
I only can say, "Go to hell.......Fuck racism!!!!!!!!!!"